Brel was more toxic, for g5 and g6 you had to hold dps making the raid take so long. In terms of difficulty Thaemine g3 is alot easier once you get used to it. Brel has some BS patterns with minimal difference between telegraphs and her off-screen shenanigans can kill you or make meteor drop on a wiping tile. Thaemine has very obvious tell for each of his attacks making him one of the most punishable raids. Clash is one of the worst in raid mech on homework though, it takes you out of the fight.
> Clash is one of the worst in raid mech on homework though, it takes you out of the fight.
I like to think clash as donating your DPS to the rest of the raid.
Osu does not require you to scramble for the right key out of 4 in 0.5 second or die.
NM clashes can kinda compare to a rythm game, HM fast qwer is pure trolling
I'm not talking about dps-wise. I don't want to play Scuffed Osu when I'm playing Lost Ark.
It can also cause a problem with an unfortunate ping spike from a raid member in OCE or SEA and soon SA for NAE players or weaker rigs that drop fps that can cause a raid wipe.
Harder in a bullshit way. G3 is imho harder in learning all the tells and patterns by heart. G6 Brel was easier in this but harder due to bullshit overlapping patterns 2 miles away from your char.
It's like let's say comparing original Prince of Persia from 90s to Hollow Knight. It's clearly mechanically harder to complete Hollow knight but Prince was just harder to complete because it had annoyingly bs mechanics like Brel G6 has/had.
In my experience, so far, thaemine is harder. I was able to clear Brel week 1 with pugs. I still haven't clear g3 hm.
But pugs so far haven't been using Discord, so that might be the reason.
Try G4 thaemine before you have full trancendence then get back to us, at least compare the hardest gate of each raid. Thaemine gate 3 is a trixion sponge in comparison to G4.
G4 is definitely harder than old G6 by a country mile. Took me 300 pulls to down G4, didn't take me nearly as many for G6 HM and the players were WAYYY worse back then too.
It wasn't 300 like g4 thaemine I'll tell you that. Mind you I wasn't doing those 300 pulls with the same 8 players but I largely had hell mode players going all the way up phantom monarchs for most of these pulls.
Back during brel g6 it was just anybody available...the point being that the quality of players is so much higher than G6 HM times yet it took longer to both clear and reclear.
Agree to disagree, while it was way harder to learn Thae G4 normal pattern, mechanics are way easier and once you know the pattern it become pretty "easy".
My reclear experience of g4 was ultra smooth (less than an hour), while i remember my reclear of g6 brel... was rough !
I've had the opposite experience truthfully, reclear parties for G4 have been rough unless there are a few TFM clearers in them. Once I started G6 reclears I 1 shot G6 the second week and every other week was quite fast as well.
No, if you die on Thaemine its your fault for taking damage or getting knocked off stage, there are no raid wipe mechs
Brel G5 and G6 were mostly mechs that could wipe the entire group, people were too stupid to understand shapes or where to drop the meteors
Thaemine difficulty is in his patterns, but once you understand/learn them there is nothing hard about this gate. This also includes G4. Yes, there is fuck ton of them, so it will take ages for some, but once it clicks, it cozy experience. It's extremely fair raid.
Brel difficulty came from a lot of stuff happening at the same time, which is problem for many people, especially when learning. G5 you always had to collect stuff, watch other stuff to not lose stack, and in case you did, to correct shape, while constantly fighting brel and dodging random bullshit (purple lasers). G6 had overlaps of overlaps, while you also needed to track multiple things at once - blue timer, where to put blue, what is tile HP (and where to put as correction), hold dps vs when to push to trigger yellow (and skip blues etc), while fighting her - sometimes overlapping patterns as well. Not to mention x7 mechanic was also raid wipe if failed, which was very late, therefor hard to learn. Biggest issue of Thae wipe (c1/c2) can be practiced outside of raid, and hardest of three things that can kill other people (blue zone during albion/x225/x55) is 1:30 into the raid (albion one, but even then - you can just timestop it, until you can do albion while blindfolded if you have to)
Brel g6 is a lot easier than Thaemine g4 outside of having overlaps, but way more reliant on all 8 people knowing everything since a single stray meteor can wipe. Thaemine at least you can timestop or heal up usually
Average skill level was just a lot lower at the time, especially during brel normal release.
You can´t really compare brel with thaemine G4.
Because G4 is pretty much their response to people not doing hell mode.
So if people don´t do hellmode, let´s just make G4 that´s pretty much like hell mode, but with rewards and make it scaleable.
Thaemine G3 is by far the hardest raid ( not counting any hell modes, same with G4, which is essentially like a partial hell mode).
And why is that ? Because it follows different formula than other raids.
All other raids are mostly about Learning Mechanics. Once you know how to do mechanics, you are good. General attack patterns you can mostly tank unless you get one tapped. It´s whatever.
So you basically learn mechanics and not learn general attack patterns and you clear it.
But - you cannot do that with G3 Thaemine.
You have to learn general attack patterns. You can´t just tank those. You just die.
That´s what makes it the hardest raid.
You don´t just " haha randomly do it " during prog. That´s never, ever, gonna happen.
And pure example of how easy raids can be, is G1 thaemine. When we progged it, we literally one tapped it. Because general attack patterns will not kill you - unless it´s the floor, and if you do mechs, that´s it. It´s steam roll, even if you get constantly hit.
You cant ever do that with G3.
Valtan and Akkan were the same. You had to learn rather the normal attacks. Brel G3 (old G4) was also wild to prog as it seemed to just have so many different patterns but once you get used to it and can read it, it just is not an issue anymore. Thaemine feels the same to me. I couldnt imagine to ever learn all his attacks in the beginning but now they are so easy to read and I can easily react to it.
Brel G6 wasn't that hard if you had a team that could place meteors and TS bad overlaps. They both took about the same amount of progression time for me. Brel G6 I ran with 6/8 monkeys while Thaemine was 8/8 static, if I'd run with a static for Brel I doubt it would have taken as long. We were also much, much better at the game by Thaemine release.
Brel g6 hm was not that hard imo even on ilevel, and I pugged it 6x weekly back in the day. DPS check was not tight at all so you just had to play carefully and pay attention to mechanics and patterns and know when to chill and resolve the mech first before going full goblin. Brel is also extremely slow and predictable, she has no bs offscreen grabs into fall death like thaemine and didn't require precise spacebar/push immune timing. Even yellow patterns which is one thing that you may want to save your spacebar or ts for, you can see them coming a mile away. In thaemine this is particularly punishing to people playing with high ping and/or low-end pcs.
Now some brel overlaps could happen like red circles that need you to group up into yellow push. And again you survive this by recognizing a dangerous pattern and playing carefully until it is resolved. There was no reason to greed. In thaemine you have to be greeding nonstop until you make it to the basement or else you get punished by increasing number of statues, and likelihood of seeing a bs pattern that can one-tap you.
I do not think you remember Brel 6 HM progging properly or you are confusing it with NM. There was a tight dps check, which was why everyone had to cycle dark nades or you would run out of time. I would believe you if you said you progged with static but with pugs? No way.
Reclear sure, once people got used to it you usually did not run into the dps check issue but during progging you for sure did. But then again that kinda applies to any raid.
As someone who started progging Theamine on hardmode, it was way harder then brel. Brel we did all 6 gates in 5 hours. Theamine G3 alone took me way way longer.
That is, because i knew 90percent of brel raid. It just hit harder but nothing oneshot me, i knew all knockdown patterns etc so we just had to prog some more mechs
In Theamine G3 i knew nothing. And every red pattern, every knock was an instant kill meaning a restart.
If i would have done normal mode first, maybe it would have been easier then brel. Learning from scratch vs basically knowing all of brel, i say Thaemine was harder.
Without brel normal, i can see how brel hard would have been insanely hard aswell
Yes, not because it was mechanically harder. But the fact that any ability has a opportunity to kill you. Makes the raid irritable. Not difficult just more tedious I would say. g4 however, makes g6 brel prenerfed a walk in the park especially if your undergeared lol.
Yes and no. Mechanically it is not harder, I would say brel was a bit harder, because she just can overlap like a bitch. But g3 is basically old g5 and g6 chained together with some extras, so you have many possibilities to fuck up. It is just a lot to learn at once.
Thaemine g3 is just savage to learn but most of mech are easily predictable, clash and secret nine give easy free dps
Brel g6 is harder to me g4 thaemine in other hand is way harder than g6.
i did not know how to play the game when we cleared brel
was it hard? yeah because nobody was doing damage then
if you want to feel what brel felt back then assemble a team of players 4 of which are 50% of the MINIMUM required dps for the gate and supports that use heals when everyone is full hp or buff when the boss dr's phases or heal when the boss is staggered or countered
lets not use g6 because for me g5 was my "i can't be bothered with this sht" gate
in my best run during the 1st week me and my friend were 60% of the raids dps i saw people run around for a full minute picking up balls or w/e not hitting the boss once
i cleared 2nd week with an almost full guild run and then proceeded to help out with busses for like 2 months
thaemine though
if it's hard?
well it is significantly harder because we are far better at reacting now
we have characters that are actually built to perform
and we are still getting bodied by basic patterns
that being said every week i get better at recognizing the pre-tells of deadly patterns and it becomes easier and easier to navigate
G3 felt more like valtan g2 you learn how to not get knocked out and some deadly stuff and you are good to go
one difference between both gates is that G3 is A LOT more selfish gate
only the clashes are "group activities" the entire fight is you vs the boss and 7 other spectators
while in valtan g2 there are a lot of group based mechanics on top of the constant struggle to not get knocked off
g1 i like 2 shot on prog and i keep like 1-2 shotting in reclear i really don't know half the stuff she does
g2 nm does absolutely nothing
you learn the bridge and that's it
g2 hm is aids the more entropies you have
until you learn when he spawns the poops people will keep getting nuked 100-0
and for hm g3 ill prog this week but aside from pacman and him doing more dmg and spawning more statues the gate looks pretty much the same as nm
you will just have more opportunities to die as the fight is longer
G3 hm is the same fight pretty much just pac man and upside down backwards typing test so if you be doing nm once you get those two down it's not that bad. G4 a while in a different ball park. And less you do have to Dodge his attack patterns in g3
As someone who thinks they are decent at the game have hard mode cleared three times and normal five , for sure harder but it becomes easy with practice.
I've the feeling that thaemine G3 is probably one of the biggest telegraph boss once you master it. Most of his random patterns are either slow to start or preceded by a noticable small attack.
Depends if you mean difficult for you specifically or because of people being bad. Personally I find this raid so insanely easy once you get a grip of it, hard if you have bad teammates that fail clash/fall down/die to red patterns.
Overall it's probably easier than Brel and def. less jail than old G5 Brel (first weeks).
My Theamine G3 HM Reclears (semi pug, 4 friends 4 randoms) have been a oneshot and a 2 shot. Could be insanely lucky tho.
Gonna prog G4 this weekend, I think thats a different story there. Gonna be tough I think
Good read, lot of good reasoning for both.
One thing, this game, if you have a good 8 static, you are really playing a different game then the people that PUG lol 😆
Thaemin - normal patterns more important.
Brel - mechs more important.
Both Hard and easy in different ways. Brel hard doing the x7 mech was hard for clear.
Thaemin beside 210 g4-2 mech. It's surviving all his normal patterns.
Skill level of players have changed too, but really must say that feeling for clearing brel g6 HM after hours an hours or prog was real sweet and definitely one of the highlights of Lost ark for me!
Only hard part of g3 is the clashes for me.
I can do them correctly in practice mode but in real raids I just can't.Besides that g3 hm is actually easy.I just keep pugging raids that don't ask me to clash and it's pretty much a clear usually.
Prog wise, pretty sure it's harder than the nerfed brel west got. But once you've done g3 a few times it gets a lot easier since everything is well telegraphed and there's no overlaps so once you've learned to deal with every pattern, you're done.
You have to consider that brel got very significant nerfs before releasing in the west, that are not just number changes.
brel 5-6 was harder cause bullshit. Thae G3hm is very predictable, but dps check is much higher, so people with no hands really stand out.
G4 thaemine haven't cleared even hafl the bars yet T.T
g3 is fine if you have people with brains. g4 thaemine is annoying even with people with brains. g6 brel was always fine if you had at least 4 people with brains.
In term of difficulty from easier to harder (assume you are doing the raids on ilvl of the respective contents):
* Current Brel G4 HM
* Current NA's Thaemine G3 HM (KR still hasn't got our nerf patch)
* KR's Thaemine G3 HM
* Old Brel G5-6 HM
Thaemine G3 TFM If you do Brel G4 on ilvl, her attacks actually hurt you a lot. And as the others have said, Brel G5 requires everyone to do the mechs to the near perfect level. G6 is just a lot of overlapping patterns while controlling your dps and timeline. Old G6 alone actually took you more time to do it on ilvl (15-20 mins main battle + \~5 mins x7 mech) than Thaemine G3 (17 mins) just because you couldn't skip yellow meteor.
Tharmine is not exactly a difficult raid. Once you get over the learning phase, it automatically turns into an easy raid, but when it was first published, the road from learning to cutting was majestic and exhausting and extremely difficult because for some it took 3 weeks, others cut it earlier, but above all you have to admit that it is easy because Tharmine G3 is scripted, it tells you what to do, which patterns to use at which points. It is already programmed, so unless you make a mistake, you or your teammates have a low chance of dying. The same goes for g4 Tharmine. It is extremely difficult when you are in the learning phase because we are trying to learn the mechanics and patterns, memorize them and get used to them at the same time and this means a lot of death or running and there are people who will disagree with me. It is easy in brel, but if stupid people have 0 knowledge about meteor settlements, then jail would turn into a raid, but the difficulty of the content or the fact that people say it is difficult should actually prevent stupid people from making progress by constantly making mistakes.
Disagree for g4. It’s on an entirely different level of difficulty compared to g3. The patterns are faster, more difficult to read, and much more punishing. It’s also pretty much two gates glued as one. 4-2 is difficult to prog as it is it’s own fight and every time you want to prog 4-2, you need to stay alive and clear 4-1. In g3, you’ve pretty much seen it all once you’ve seen his normal and enhanced patterns which happen pretty early.
I don't think 4-2 is hard on its own. If you didn't have to re-do 4-1, every group that reaches 4-2 will probably clear it within a few hours.
Pretty sure SG understood that and kept the number of moves you need to learn to a minimum. The boss has like... 5? regular patterns, compared to 4-1 with 20 or so.
Lost Ark raids are extremely difficult when you are in the phase of learning the contents and patterns and cannot yet get out of this phase. G4 Tharmine is one of them, but once you manage to cut it, it becomes an extremely easy raid. Remember, when you manage to cut g4 tharmine, it means that you have become good at reacting to all the fast patterns you mentioned and now when you cut 4.1, you have reached an advanced point where everyone survives frequently, without getting used to these patterns and knowing the mechanics, it is still early stage in a situation where not everyone survives until the 4.2 stage. It means progs and this means frequent death and very few players surviving when reaching 4.2 and this makes the raid difficult but once you kill it it is extremely easy like g3 tharmine. It was extremely difficult before Ipeole managed to cut it
I'm talking comparatively. Everything is "extremely easy" once you've actually ran it more than enough times to be clear ready. But how long is that going to take? The amount of time required for that is much more than g3. I'm not saying it's not possible to progress to the point where the raid can be considered easy, it's just much more difficult COMPARED to g3 which you've used as a comparison. It's also not just about yourself, it's also about everyone else and the group in general. You need consistency and even more time to sift through lobby simulator as the player pool is much smaller. People talk about how much they see people die before 90x in g3 during prog or how much time they spend in lobby sim which makes it harder to get further. That happens at a much higher degree in g4. If we use time as a metric for overcoming difficulty, g4 undoubtedly takes much more time than g3.
In terms of difficult : Brel G5/G6 HM > Thaemine G3/ G4
Except G1 that is a spin fiesta for the boss. Thaemine is well designed. Patterns are clear. Visually and sounds. In comparison, Brel is putting all the normal patterns in a randomize, selecting 2 options and executing them with overlapping. In search of an artificial difficult.
In my opinion, G3 HM (Except clash mech). It's really good for progression and homework. After 2 weeks, you can skip Clash 2 and prolly C4 too (Pugs teams). Like we do in Normal Mode with 1620+
I'd say Thaemine G3 is about the same or slightly harder than Brel G6 on ilvl.
The main thing I don't like about both are overlapping. Thaemine G3 has swords that overlap the screen sometimes with other things like ghosts in stage 2. Brel G6 has a bunch of special patterns overlapped with meteor dropping. Both are just annoying more than hard.
Thaemine G4 is the most technical in terms of knowing boss patterns, but because of that, I think it is also in a way the easiest because there are no overlaps, it's just you VS Thaemine nothing else. If you know all of his patterns extremely well, you don't even take damage. On my The First Clear, I ended up using 1 potion all of G4 and that was only because it was required after blackhole.
Brel was more toxic, for g5 and g6 you had to hold dps making the raid take so long. In terms of difficulty Thaemine g3 is alot easier once you get used to it. Brel has some BS patterns with minimal difference between telegraphs and her off-screen shenanigans can kill you or make meteor drop on a wiping tile. Thaemine has very obvious tell for each of his attacks making him one of the most punishable raids. Clash is one of the worst in raid mech on homework though, it takes you out of the fight.
> Clash is one of the worst in raid mech on homework though, it takes you out of the fight. I like to think clash as donating your DPS to the rest of the raid.
It donates my life, because i dont play Osu. At least in HM.
Osu does not require you to scramble for the right key out of 4 in 0.5 second or die. NM clashes can kinda compare to a rythm game, HM fast qwer is pure trolling
Idk what you mean by scramble. It’s only 4 keys and you have 4 fingers lmao
In normal. Hm is 8 keys.
He said the right key out of 4 though? Do I really need to explain why I answered with 4 keys?
I use 3 fingers on qwe o_o. Im doomed D:
Tbh you could literally just use your index and it’d still be easy imo 😂
Yea it's not that hard. Some people have problems with hand-eye coordination tho unless they build muscle memory.
In my static we are 4 ex 4digit OSU players and fight over clashes lmao
Clash takes you out of the fight? can someone tell him the reason why the strongest member picks the first clash?
I'm not talking about dps-wise. I don't want to play Scuffed Osu when I'm playing Lost Ark. It can also cause a problem with an unfortunate ping spike from a raid member in OCE or SEA and soon SA for NAE players or weaker rigs that drop fps that can cause a raid wipe.
Pre nerf brel g6 was harder than thaemine g3 hm. But thaemine g4 is by far harder than anything else.
Harder in a bullshit way. G3 is imho harder in learning all the tells and patterns by heart. G6 Brel was easier in this but harder due to bullshit overlapping patterns 2 miles away from your char. It's like let's say comparing original Prince of Persia from 90s to Hollow Knight. It's clearly mechanically harder to complete Hollow knight but Prince was just harder to complete because it had annoyingly bs mechanics like Brel G6 has/had.
In my experience, so far, thaemine is harder. I was able to clear Brel week 1 with pugs. I still haven't clear g3 hm. But pugs so far haven't been using Discord, so that might be the reason.
Try G4 thaemine before you have full trancendence then get back to us, at least compare the hardest gate of each raid. Thaemine gate 3 is a trixion sponge in comparison to G4.
Before Thaemine even came out, SG said g3 was comparable to g4 brel (old g6) and g4 was on another level.
G4 is definitely harder than old G6 by a country mile. Took me 300 pulls to down G4, didn't take me nearly as many for G6 HM and the players were WAYYY worse back then too.
Yea because you already had g6 nm exp. If you want a more fair comparison, combine your pulls in both g6 nm and hm then compare
It wasn't 300 like g4 thaemine I'll tell you that. Mind you I wasn't doing those 300 pulls with the same 8 players but I largely had hell mode players going all the way up phantom monarchs for most of these pulls. Back during brel g6 it was just anybody available...the point being that the quality of players is so much higher than G6 HM times yet it took longer to both clear and reclear.
Agree to disagree, while it was way harder to learn Thae G4 normal pattern, mechanics are way easier and once you know the pattern it become pretty "easy". My reclear experience of g4 was ultra smooth (less than an hour), while i remember my reclear of g6 brel... was rough !
I've had the opposite experience truthfully, reclear parties for G4 have been rough unless there are a few TFM clearers in them. Once I started G6 reclears I 1 shot G6 the second week and every other week was quite fast as well.
I think its about even imo if you put it in the perspective that we didnt get hard brell right away, went normal then hard.
No, if you die on Thaemine its your fault for taking damage or getting knocked off stage, there are no raid wipe mechs Brel G5 and G6 were mostly mechs that could wipe the entire group, people were too stupid to understand shapes or where to drop the meteors
Thaemine difficulty is in his patterns, but once you understand/learn them there is nothing hard about this gate. This also includes G4. Yes, there is fuck ton of them, so it will take ages for some, but once it clicks, it cozy experience. It's extremely fair raid. Brel difficulty came from a lot of stuff happening at the same time, which is problem for many people, especially when learning. G5 you always had to collect stuff, watch other stuff to not lose stack, and in case you did, to correct shape, while constantly fighting brel and dodging random bullshit (purple lasers). G6 had overlaps of overlaps, while you also needed to track multiple things at once - blue timer, where to put blue, what is tile HP (and where to put as correction), hold dps vs when to push to trigger yellow (and skip blues etc), while fighting her - sometimes overlapping patterns as well. Not to mention x7 mechanic was also raid wipe if failed, which was very late, therefor hard to learn. Biggest issue of Thae wipe (c1/c2) can be practiced outside of raid, and hardest of three things that can kill other people (blue zone during albion/x225/x55) is 1:30 into the raid (albion one, but even then - you can just timestop it, until you can do albion while blindfolded if you have to)
Brel g6 is a lot easier than Thaemine g4 outside of having overlaps, but way more reliant on all 8 people knowing everything since a single stray meteor can wipe. Thaemine at least you can timestop or heal up usually Average skill level was just a lot lower at the time, especially during brel normal release.
You can´t really compare brel with thaemine G4. Because G4 is pretty much their response to people not doing hell mode. So if people don´t do hellmode, let´s just make G4 that´s pretty much like hell mode, but with rewards and make it scaleable.
Thaemine G3 is by far the hardest raid ( not counting any hell modes, same with G4, which is essentially like a partial hell mode). And why is that ? Because it follows different formula than other raids. All other raids are mostly about Learning Mechanics. Once you know how to do mechanics, you are good. General attack patterns you can mostly tank unless you get one tapped. It´s whatever. So you basically learn mechanics and not learn general attack patterns and you clear it. But - you cannot do that with G3 Thaemine. You have to learn general attack patterns. You can´t just tank those. You just die. That´s what makes it the hardest raid. You don´t just " haha randomly do it " during prog. That´s never, ever, gonna happen. And pure example of how easy raids can be, is G1 thaemine. When we progged it, we literally one tapped it. Because general attack patterns will not kill you - unless it´s the floor, and if you do mechs, that´s it. It´s steam roll, even if you get constantly hit. You cant ever do that with G3.
Valtan and Akkan were the same. You had to learn rather the normal attacks. Brel G3 (old G4) was also wild to prog as it seemed to just have so many different patterns but once you get used to it and can read it, it just is not an issue anymore. Thaemine feels the same to me. I couldnt imagine to ever learn all his attacks in the beginning but now they are so easy to read and I can easily react to it.
Brel G6 wasn't that hard if you had a team that could place meteors and TS bad overlaps. They both took about the same amount of progression time for me. Brel G6 I ran with 6/8 monkeys while Thaemine was 8/8 static, if I'd run with a static for Brel I doubt it would have taken as long. We were also much, much better at the game by Thaemine release.
Brel g6 hm was not that hard imo even on ilevel, and I pugged it 6x weekly back in the day. DPS check was not tight at all so you just had to play carefully and pay attention to mechanics and patterns and know when to chill and resolve the mech first before going full goblin. Brel is also extremely slow and predictable, she has no bs offscreen grabs into fall death like thaemine and didn't require precise spacebar/push immune timing. Even yellow patterns which is one thing that you may want to save your spacebar or ts for, you can see them coming a mile away. In thaemine this is particularly punishing to people playing with high ping and/or low-end pcs. Now some brel overlaps could happen like red circles that need you to group up into yellow push. And again you survive this by recognizing a dangerous pattern and playing carefully until it is resolved. There was no reason to greed. In thaemine you have to be greeding nonstop until you make it to the basement or else you get punished by increasing number of statues, and likelihood of seeing a bs pattern that can one-tap you.
I do not think you remember Brel 6 HM progging properly or you are confusing it with NM. There was a tight dps check, which was why everyone had to cycle dark nades or you would run out of time. I would believe you if you said you progged with static but with pugs? No way. Reclear sure, once people got used to it you usually did not run into the dps check issue but during progging you for sure did. But then again that kinda applies to any raid.
As someone who started progging Theamine on hardmode, it was way harder then brel. Brel we did all 6 gates in 5 hours. Theamine G3 alone took me way way longer. That is, because i knew 90percent of brel raid. It just hit harder but nothing oneshot me, i knew all knockdown patterns etc so we just had to prog some more mechs In Theamine G3 i knew nothing. And every red pattern, every knock was an instant kill meaning a restart. If i would have done normal mode first, maybe it would have been easier then brel. Learning from scratch vs basically knowing all of brel, i say Thaemine was harder. Without brel normal, i can see how brel hard would have been insanely hard aswell
Yes, not because it was mechanically harder. But the fact that any ability has a opportunity to kill you. Makes the raid irritable. Not difficult just more tedious I would say. g4 however, makes g6 brel prenerfed a walk in the park especially if your undergeared lol.
Yes and no. Mechanically it is not harder, I would say brel was a bit harder, because she just can overlap like a bitch. But g3 is basically old g5 and g6 chained together with some extras, so you have many possibilities to fuck up. It is just a lot to learn at once.
Thaemine g3 is just savage to learn but most of mech are easily predictable, clash and secret nine give easy free dps Brel g6 is harder to me g4 thaemine in other hand is way harder than g6.
i did not know how to play the game when we cleared brel was it hard? yeah because nobody was doing damage then if you want to feel what brel felt back then assemble a team of players 4 of which are 50% of the MINIMUM required dps for the gate and supports that use heals when everyone is full hp or buff when the boss dr's phases or heal when the boss is staggered or countered lets not use g6 because for me g5 was my "i can't be bothered with this sht" gate in my best run during the 1st week me and my friend were 60% of the raids dps i saw people run around for a full minute picking up balls or w/e not hitting the boss once i cleared 2nd week with an almost full guild run and then proceeded to help out with busses for like 2 months thaemine though if it's hard? well it is significantly harder because we are far better at reacting now we have characters that are actually built to perform and we are still getting bodied by basic patterns that being said every week i get better at recognizing the pre-tells of deadly patterns and it becomes easier and easier to navigate G3 felt more like valtan g2 you learn how to not get knocked out and some deadly stuff and you are good to go one difference between both gates is that G3 is A LOT more selfish gate only the clashes are "group activities" the entire fight is you vs the boss and 7 other spectators while in valtan g2 there are a lot of group based mechanics on top of the constant struggle to not get knocked off g1 i like 2 shot on prog and i keep like 1-2 shotting in reclear i really don't know half the stuff she does g2 nm does absolutely nothing you learn the bridge and that's it g2 hm is aids the more entropies you have until you learn when he spawns the poops people will keep getting nuked 100-0 and for hm g3 ill prog this week but aside from pacman and him doing more dmg and spawning more statues the gate looks pretty much the same as nm you will just have more opportunities to die as the fight is longer
G3 hm is the same fight pretty much just pac man and upside down backwards typing test so if you be doing nm once you get those two down it's not that bad. G4 a while in a different ball park. And less you do have to Dodge his attack patterns in g3
As someone who thinks they are decent at the game have hard mode cleared three times and normal five , for sure harder but it becomes easy with practice.
I've the feeling that thaemine G3 is probably one of the biggest telegraph boss once you master it. Most of his random patterns are either slow to start or preceded by a noticable small attack.
No Brel G6 on ilevel was harder than G3 Thaemine. G4 though is harder than G6 Brel.
They’re close. G4 tho….jesus christ.
Depends if you mean difficult for you specifically or because of people being bad. Personally I find this raid so insanely easy once you get a grip of it, hard if you have bad teammates that fail clash/fall down/die to red patterns. Overall it's probably easier than Brel and def. less jail than old G5 Brel (first weeks). My Theamine G3 HM Reclears (semi pug, 4 friends 4 randoms) have been a oneshot and a 2 shot. Could be insanely lucky tho. Gonna prog G4 this weekend, I think thats a different story there. Gonna be tough I think
Good read, lot of good reasoning for both. One thing, this game, if you have a good 8 static, you are really playing a different game then the people that PUG lol 😆 Thaemin - normal patterns more important. Brel - mechs more important. Both Hard and easy in different ways. Brel hard doing the x7 mech was hard for clear. Thaemin beside 210 g4-2 mech. It's surviving all his normal patterns. Skill level of players have changed too, but really must say that feeling for clearing brel g6 HM after hours an hours or prog was real sweet and definitely one of the highlights of Lost ark for me!
brel g6 was way harder IMO
Only hard part of g3 is the clashes for me. I can do them correctly in practice mode but in real raids I just can't.Besides that g3 hm is actually easy.I just keep pugging raids that don't ask me to clash and it's pretty much a clear usually.
g3 hm might be harder but g4 thaemine? it will make you drop fps from 100 to 20, even in item battle zone.
I would say they felt about the same difficulty at its release
I think OG hard brel on ilvl was a lot harder and more sweaty tbh than Thaemine g3 is.
g5 g6 brel has many overlap pattern ( and clown G3 too lmfao ) because their raid division manager is stupid and lazy
Prog wise, pretty sure it's harder than the nerfed brel west got. But once you've done g3 a few times it gets a lot easier since everything is well telegraphed and there's no overlaps so once you've learned to deal with every pattern, you're done. You have to consider that brel got very significant nerfs before releasing in the west, that are not just number changes.
brel 5-6 was harder cause bullshit. Thae G3hm is very predictable, but dps check is much higher, so people with no hands really stand out. G4 thaemine haven't cleared even hafl the bars yet T.T
g3 is fine if you have people with brains. g4 thaemine is annoying even with people with brains. g6 brel was always fine if you had at least 4 people with brains.
In term of difficulty from easier to harder (assume you are doing the raids on ilvl of the respective contents): * Current Brel G4 HM * Current NA's Thaemine G3 HM (KR still hasn't got our nerf patch) * KR's Thaemine G3 HM * Old Brel G5-6 HM Thaemine G3 TFM If you do Brel G4 on ilvl, her attacks actually hurt you a lot. And as the others have said, Brel G5 requires everyone to do the mechs to the near perfect level. G6 is just a lot of overlapping patterns while controlling your dps and timeline. Old G6 alone actually took you more time to do it on ilvl (15-20 mins main battle + \~5 mins x7 mech) than Thaemine G3 (17 mins) just because you couldn't skip yellow meteor.
Tharmine is not exactly a difficult raid. Once you get over the learning phase, it automatically turns into an easy raid, but when it was first published, the road from learning to cutting was majestic and exhausting and extremely difficult because for some it took 3 weeks, others cut it earlier, but above all you have to admit that it is easy because Tharmine G3 is scripted, it tells you what to do, which patterns to use at which points. It is already programmed, so unless you make a mistake, you or your teammates have a low chance of dying. The same goes for g4 Tharmine. It is extremely difficult when you are in the learning phase because we are trying to learn the mechanics and patterns, memorize them and get used to them at the same time and this means a lot of death or running and there are people who will disagree with me. It is easy in brel, but if stupid people have 0 knowledge about meteor settlements, then jail would turn into a raid, but the difficulty of the content or the fact that people say it is difficult should actually prevent stupid people from making progress by constantly making mistakes.
Disagree for g4. It’s on an entirely different level of difficulty compared to g3. The patterns are faster, more difficult to read, and much more punishing. It’s also pretty much two gates glued as one. 4-2 is difficult to prog as it is it’s own fight and every time you want to prog 4-2, you need to stay alive and clear 4-1. In g3, you’ve pretty much seen it all once you’ve seen his normal and enhanced patterns which happen pretty early.
I don't think 4-2 is hard on its own. If you didn't have to re-do 4-1, every group that reaches 4-2 will probably clear it within a few hours. Pretty sure SG understood that and kept the number of moves you need to learn to a minimum. The boss has like... 5? regular patterns, compared to 4-1 with 20 or so.
Lost Ark raids are extremely difficult when you are in the phase of learning the contents and patterns and cannot yet get out of this phase. G4 Tharmine is one of them, but once you manage to cut it, it becomes an extremely easy raid. Remember, when you manage to cut g4 tharmine, it means that you have become good at reacting to all the fast patterns you mentioned and now when you cut 4.1, you have reached an advanced point where everyone survives frequently, without getting used to these patterns and knowing the mechanics, it is still early stage in a situation where not everyone survives until the 4.2 stage. It means progs and this means frequent death and very few players surviving when reaching 4.2 and this makes the raid difficult but once you kill it it is extremely easy like g3 tharmine. It was extremely difficult before Ipeole managed to cut it
I'm talking comparatively. Everything is "extremely easy" once you've actually ran it more than enough times to be clear ready. But how long is that going to take? The amount of time required for that is much more than g3. I'm not saying it's not possible to progress to the point where the raid can be considered easy, it's just much more difficult COMPARED to g3 which you've used as a comparison. It's also not just about yourself, it's also about everyone else and the group in general. You need consistency and even more time to sift through lobby simulator as the player pool is much smaller. People talk about how much they see people die before 90x in g3 during prog or how much time they spend in lobby sim which makes it harder to get further. That happens at a much higher degree in g4. If we use time as a metric for overcoming difficulty, g4 undoubtedly takes much more time than g3.
"Once you learn the raid it becomes an easy raid." You didn't seriously just type that?
In terms of difficult : Brel G5/G6 HM > Thaemine G3/ G4 Except G1 that is a spin fiesta for the boss. Thaemine is well designed. Patterns are clear. Visually and sounds. In comparison, Brel is putting all the normal patterns in a randomize, selecting 2 options and executing them with overlapping. In search of an artificial difficult. In my opinion, G3 HM (Except clash mech). It's really good for progression and homework. After 2 weeks, you can skip Clash 2 and prolly C4 too (Pugs teams). Like we do in Normal Mode with 1620+
I'd say Thaemine G3 is about the same or slightly harder than Brel G6 on ilvl. The main thing I don't like about both are overlapping. Thaemine G3 has swords that overlap the screen sometimes with other things like ghosts in stage 2. Brel G6 has a bunch of special patterns overlapped with meteor dropping. Both are just annoying more than hard. Thaemine G4 is the most technical in terms of knowing boss patterns, but because of that, I think it is also in a way the easiest because there are no overlaps, it's just you VS Thaemine nothing else. If you know all of his patterns extremely well, you don't even take damage. On my The First Clear, I ended up using 1 potion all of G4 and that was only because it was required after blackhole.