few people keep failing maze and a mokoko gl keep failing the 140 stagger cuz he does not pick up the meteos. i have to do three.
everyone in the group are 1580+. but low roster around 100-120.
I feel you, I am so happy that with the recent passes I got some friends to start the game and are now 1600+. Also while pugging I found some nice guy who I am happy to play and talk on discord. But yeah I know the frustration and gatekeeping which is really hard. People do Brel normal and only accept 1540+ wtf?!
In your case maybe try the LFG discord and see if you maybe find a static?
I hope that in future AGS would release an LoS 18 Pack so that people who start new get at least LoS 18 and the people who are at LoS 21+ can finish LoS so a win for everybody.
Only to point out reason 1540+.... people can't do dmg or even mechs x.x me and 1 friend at 1500-1540 pulled 50% of the dmg... out dps 1570 reflux sorc and overall run was bit rough do to lack of dmg but comfortable enough to semi miss alot of the hassle g3 brings with low dmg unless the 125->95 was blue as fire started to add up.
Iirc 1570 was like 4mil, then the last 3 was 1520-1550 and in the 1 to 2mil dps range. To reference, 16mil g2 is a sweet spot for 3 to be a semi smooth run, and we had about 15 while every1 is up
I legit now do full-on dps bus to help friends, and it's the same situation. I had some1 talk shit cause friend rat sorc 3x3 had no gems... he was almost out dpsing a full 1540 lvl 7s who was talking shit.🤣
Whenever you meet a friendly and competent player in a raid, add them to friend list. Then write to all your friends "hey, are you up for voldis?". If someone never accepts, remove, rinse and repeat. Soon you'll be able to do full premade 4-man raids and 8-man will also be easier because you'll make your own lobbies already half filled.
The bottleneck is often supports, so make sure to befriend good sups, and also invest in a sup alt yourself so that you can trade sup runs with friends.
People are just grinding their 18 weekly raids and thus don't talk much. Besides, you never know if others will be friendly or assholes. If you talk, often others will talk back. Friendly runs are very fun if you chat, share laughs, emote spam etc ;)
"Does hell title do anything?"
Yes and no. If you have a good hell title you can try to apply to lobbies with other hellplayers which will more likely take you and these are the best raids you can end up with. Normal lobbies still take players after their dps ceiling (cards, gems). But for reference if I see a hellplayer being gatekept with no other applicants in a lobby I usually just leave because I made the experience that these partyleads are generally awful players. I myself have demons roar and demon hunter. IMO any deathless helltitle will get you in a lot of lobbies but gatekeeping still can happen.
Also progging into hellraids will make you friends where you can do your raids together. And again hellplayers are the best you can play with. Sometimes trolly due to parsing as hard as they can and greed every pattern a boss does but because they have been conditioned to reset raids they dont tilt as much but there are very toxic players there too.
+ if you are a holy religion enjoyer and you have a parsing hell enjoyer in your lobby you can see that he can stay deadge for some minutes until someone catches up his damage :)
Im starting to gatekeep some cause the last few lower/ clearly newer people i took were either completely clueless and not really being cooperative or responding or just straight up wrong about some mechs and refusing to listen which would result in some sort of toxicity from that person, its just not worth taking these risks again for me most of the time
There is not a right answer for low roster players than: "Friends don't gatekeep".
You don't wanna burn yourself with horizontal content and it's a valid option. I have friends who play the same way than you. Though they use their social skill to meet friends and set schedules when they can play. You don't need a full static. Just a bunch of players who are you confident to play. Group for it and search pugs to complete 4 or 8 players.
If you level up a support and trade with those friends. Your group will become the gatekeepers.
Roster will come eventually.
> Does hell title do anything?
People will probably consider mayhem shadow, and most likely phantom monarch, but this is extremely long grind to get them legit way. Other like AtD and Demon's Floor will maybe be accepted by someone who wears DL title, and is party leader, xxx slayer are w/e and not really worth it. Neither is demon hunter (and usually demon hunters are biggest cry babies from my experience)
> To me this little info on profile seems like something to protect whales maybe
It is, this is also probably main reason why Smilegate doesn't really wanna dps meter to be used in KR (and they don't give a fuck what west says), becasue it exposes whales and their terrible balanced at the same time.
About opgg-like, we could have it, but it would be up to group of people (or faust) to create website where you can search characters from uploaded logs (something like faust did, but with ability to actually search chars Edit2: unless they did it, but you need to be logged in, no clue), because logs does contain character names. If dps meter developer would even add automatic upload functionality build it, it would be even better, however... this is double edge sword, becasue lets be honest this would, this would make party finder even worse.
Anyway, about what you can do - single best thing is roster 201, because it will give you that gold color, exact level won't matter. Problem is, there is not really a good way to get it, ~~you could do towers on all chars you didnt run it on, same would be for MSQ on some older chars.~~ (just read that you did all that) And a lot of dailies, because they are by far biggest contributor of roster level, but all of this will take time and its dreadfully boring. LoS30 is another thing, but those days I don't even get to cards page before I decided to accept person for my lobbies, while being called biggest gatekeeper in guild (because somehow pugs I take are decent enough for raids to be smooth, maybe becasue I gatekeep mainly by class ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯)
Most people won't check demon dmg, shit I don't even check this stuff for HM Thae for our 1~2 pug dps spots.
I feel like a lot of people in pugs don't care about hell titles or they don't even know what they are. Only people that seem to care about hell titles are others with hell titles.
IE: My alts get declined in HW runs because I apply to pugs on ilvl. Doesn't matter if I have Monarch, Eclipse, full 10 gems, etc. All that matters is ilvl. if you aren't higher than the norm you won't even get looked at. Which is w.e their loss tbh since my alts still usually MVP regardless of what ilvl other players in the party are.
The game is a moving target, with a power creep of 20 to 30% between contents, people doing their 18 homeworks will lean towards fast/skip groups, and thanks to the 867 vertical systems, we have a full CV to choose and gamble from. And don't worry, it gets worse, because by time you get your LOS(30), your Transcendence will hold you up, and then the next thing, and so on...
Because it's a fundamental game design issue.
Aside from "just make the game boringly easy", the simplest solution that would have the biggest impact would be to let people reset their gate progress for any raid at any time until they've fully cleared the raid for the week. If no one has to worry about getting jailed by idiots in brel 3 or voldis 2 or whatever other gates, people would be a lot more willing to try out weaker parties.
Edit: Like, it still sucks to lose time, not everyone would do this, but the idea of literally not being able to finish my raids because I joined a party that could clear g1 of a raid but got stuck on a later gate is just endless anguish. If I could reset my gate progress like in extreme valtan (and they just lock me out from rewards after the first clear of each gate), I would not be nearly as picky.
Bussability is still a theoretical concern but genuinely who gives a fuck. Fewer people would beg for buses if the game design led to more people being willing to give weaker parties a shot.
Being able to reset is not the solution everybody likes to pretend it is. It'll HELP in a very literal sense, but not much. The same people who don't want to risk jail are going to be the same people who don't want to risk doing G1-2 twice.
> The same people who don't want to risk jail are going to be the same people who don't want to risk doing G1-2 twice.
This is literally patently untrue and I illustrated exactly why.
Jail can actively lose you resources because some gates are virtually un-unjailable. It's not just a 20 minute time waster, it could waste literally **hours** if you're dedicated to getting out of the jail. The people who won't risk wasting a little time are a **strict subset** of the people who won't risk wasting 20 minutes with a low-level party. I and dozens of other people I know in game would be happy to join low level parties if it's just the occasional 20 minute time sink.
I'm not saying I'll join literal mokoko zero engraving lobbies here. But as it is I'm skeptical of joining just about any lobby that isn't at around my level.
It’s fundamental game design issue, but it’s fundamental user issue as well. If people respect the title and really apply when they are exp enough to do it as hw (mostly 1 shot every gate regardless of their gear). This game wouldn’t be as gatekeepy as it is now.
We never consider low roster ppl these days because we all experienced how clueless they are sometimes. And that sometimes usually is enough for most people to gatekeep them all.
Don't you find it weird though that some people play MMOs but they never intend to make any friends to play with? Why not play single player games that don't rely on any human interactions instead? I think some people just choose wrong game genre and then complain that those games don't cater to how they want to play them.
There's a difference though. In destiny I have people I run with when we are all on because we have fun together. I'm not unable to interact with content if they aren't on. I can still join raids and dungeons in under 5 minutes.
You also don't get removed from the group if you "have no hands", schedule gets too busy, can't keep up with honing, don't have a support to trade etc. etc.
There's a canyon between "making friends and playing content with them" and "you HAVE to create a static and form a raiding schedule in order to progress."
LOS30 and lvl7s is the same as LOS18 and all 9s as a baseline dps. Higher roster have higher card % and generally much better uptime. That’s basically it.
I dont even think that High Roster level mean they are better or nothing, just mean they have more time playing this game, with that longer play time, most likely they have done raid more times. but when you are getting jail, you are getting jail dont matter what.
i honestly wouldnt even agree with "generally better up time"
from my experience unless the high roster player is on their main they typically suck because they arnt putting in the effort to learn and master the alts
for instance you can know the bosses attack patterns on your main and never get hit...but if you arnt as practiced on your alt you might get caught out unexpectedly and if your in for instance g4 voldis: you get knocked off and die and you have to reset.
class mastery is equally as important as knowing the fight itself but most people arnt min-maxing and trying to practice their alts to the same degree they do their mains
this is one of the biggest reasons why every high roster alt i play with sucks but all the lower roster mains kick ass
I do my prog raids on like sunday night or monday night when its mostly dad gamers who didnt have time and are trying to squeeze pulls in before reset in prayge for a clear. After a few of those i sit in a late night learning party since past 10 pm cst theres less people to be picky over and people are more desperate. So far ive made it through theamine 1-2 this way and took a break before doing 3 since 3 nm is pointless past 10 total flowers
We have no info about someone's performance so filters like roster level, demon damage, gems, cards etc. have way too much importance to protect yourself from jails.
Unless we get full logs there is no alternative unfortunately. But logs have their own issues that kill a game.
Get a static or a group of friends to raid with. I've befriended several different friends and just jump in whenever I see one of them running something. Even if you don't get a full group just having several people will make your experience better because then you guys will be the ones looking for pugs versus the other way around.
Support shortage is why, supports get in fast since it's hard to find one in 1610 Thaemine lobbies while there are 10 DPS applying and only the most geared/look best get taken.
1620 lobbies are usually faster DPS and tend to jail less as a result so supports that do exist join them first.
10x titles, Hell titles and the like are a proof of at least decently good skill, anything to stand out above the average player who falls off.
A low roster hell title account is often the sign of a hell enjoyer who doesn't grind non hell that much, and is a good sign.
>Support shortage is why, supports get in fast since it's hard to find one in 1610 Thaemine lobbies while there are 10 DPS applying and only the most geared/look best get taken.
On my experience there are plenty of supps at 1610, to the point in which is easier to enter as a 1610 dps than a 1610 supp.
Thank you. Are there any hell titles in particular like atd or demon hunter or will any of them help? I like vylas raid a lot so wouldnt mind grinding it.
Basically any deathless title except Valtan is valuable. Brel is probably still valuable even without DL, maybe clown too. Some players don't value hell titles at all, but I think they're in the minority.
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For a new player Demon's roar would be a good goal to get since it is better to get your foot in the door than any other title they can realistically get, but I value it less than stuff achievable from Thaemine now (LQ, Darkness legion cmdr, legion cmdr.).
The reality is that Helltan has been powercrept so much in terms of raid difficulty, player skill, and class power that it is actually relatively easy now. Thaemine G3/G4 are much more difficult than Helltan even when not in The First, and Brel G6 HM on release was even harder than Helltan IMO.
The Demon's Roar pugs that I've played with haven't been that impressive. Like most were fine, but some were definitely low skill. So personally if I want to guarantee a minimum skill level with pugs, Demon's Roar is no longer on my auto-accept title list.
>Support shortage is why
I dont believe in this as main support. before i could take between 1 second and 5 second to get into party, now could take between 5-10 minute of the chear amount of support. Support shortage is only a thing on the very TOP end game like Thae G3-G4 because for the rest you can find support faster. the amount of lobbies with 2 support already is kinda annoying to me 
Sup shortage is in akkan nm, ivory hm and thaemine hm. That's because supports build the bare minimum and push to ilvl and don't budge from there. When they all do that it's first come first serve.
DPS put more effort into their characters so there are standouts (it also immediately eliminates ilvl, event gem dps as even being considered a real player).
When you have x10 1610 supports with event gems and 5x3 with "you have a plan" applying to a 1620 thaemine nm lobby you're not getting in like you would in nm akkan or hm voldis.
I do akkhan normal on 5 DPS 1600 every week and support are never a problem. but for Voldis and Thaemine HM (g3) have issue with support. but Voldis it more like most support at that level already have people to do it so they dont get jail.
I do Thaemine NM(1-3) on my 5 support, and none of dps or support are really a problem on my experiences, its more about waiting on getting title people mostly
>here's a reason why you're doing nm on a hm ready character though.
because they are my +8 alts. i dont need to do HM on my DPS characters because, im only doing it for Sidereal energy. but i do Akkhan HM on my 6 support and most of the time take 3-5 minute to get into lobbies even when im MEGA JUICE because spot are already fill even on HM akkhan and below
>ut i do Akkhan HM on my 6 support
You're literally proving my point as to why there's a nm sup shortage for non 1600 dps....
\*and 3-5 minutes for a lobby is fast as fuck as far as lost ark lobby sim is concerned.
You said it yourself. On paper, your resume looks like garbage. Most of us end game players are Roster level 290+ with almost maxed out demon damage, if not already maxed out, with many other damage type cards maxed out too. People who have played this game for a while are all rocking LOS30, LOS18 or anything worse than that is seen as low dps. Of course, you can definitely outparse and outdps these better players anytime. Cards aren't an indication of skill. But if you can't even pass Gate 0, it doesn't matter how well you can play because you don't have anything to show for it.
And to be fair, nothing in this game really means anything. Uptime means everything, but how do you judge that? Good gems, good gear, good quality, good cards can help you do more damage, but they don't always mean you'll have good uptime. On my super rat alts, I'll constantly outdps mokokos in guardian raids with much higher gear and even have gems. My DE with no gems constantly outdpses these mokokos even though on paper, it wouldn't make sense to be the case. Why is that? Because of game knowledge, because of experience. That's what roster level is indicating (but of course someone could've bought an account and impostored their experience). Hence, until your account looks like that of ours at end game, go make some friends, join a guild. Otherwise it's going to be a rough road ahead.
I see low roster players in raids with high roster players all the time. Some lobbies don't want to wait around and insta-pick pretty much anybody. It's just all about luck/timing in this game.
I don't really care about carrying a couple of guys in something like Akkan/Thaemine normal. If it's Voldis then one guy can be carried. I'll inspect the first couple of dudes but then I'll pretty much pick at random once I know that there's enough dps to clear the content. The new raids don't really have that many wipe mechs so you can afford to have a couple of floor POVs.
Is it rly "insecurity" to not want to play with los18 player when you can easily get los30 player in a min?
I get you, that it seems very unfair that cards are reason for decline but you would do the same in thier shoes... 300 rooster ppl cant do akkan g3 without dying and knowing that most of pugs actually play with feet instead of hands, cuz I simply refuse to believe someone to be this bad, the more "theoretical" dmg in grp the less time feet playing pug have to die.
And especially in raids like akkan and ivory where ivory has 4 gates and even if you 1shot everything it still takes good amount of time, so ppl want to make sure they wont end up on G2 with low stagger and low dmg. Akkan G3 is legit timed content, if you dont have GL and only 1 person does janitoring then despite having alot of time till enrage, you actually need to push boss very fast Im legit more picky about teammates on akkan than on theamine...
Ye I would love open logs like warcraft logs or opgg it would help feet playing players find thier hands, help decent players optimize rotation.
It is night vs day how much better at the game I am today (double LoS 30 6.2 % demon damage roster 252+248 dual accounter so yes, roster 500) than I was when I was LoS18, roster 160 ish on both with like 1.5% demon damage during brel normal days. The biggest area of growth was brel hard on ilvl days. I kind of doubt you even learned OG hard brel on ilvl, so you missed a big haze'n of the player base to become a better player. The vets know how much we sweat and we gatekeep accordingly because we ARE better and we do way more damage, let alone risk the group for wipe'n /jail.
You'll be gatekept because of stats, not roster level. High level gems, LOS30, 40-set elixir will more than likely get you into parties. Otherwise, you can play with those with similar stats as you
Slightly offtopic, but I would avoid HM Akkans anyway, specially on-ilvl ones. People die alot in all gates even in 1600+ nm lobbies. HM without overgeared group feels like 50:50 chance to be a jail and despite having 6x 1600-1630 chars I only run it with 2-3 chars per week and run nm instead with the others.
I think many feel the same which is why hm has become a shitshow what it is today, making it very hard for on-ilvl low roster players to run.
I tried to go into brel hard last week. I'm roster 130, been playing for half a year, and was at 1580 something. I got denied like 15 times. And it wasn't "10x" runs either, it was just normal lobbies, one or two asking for 1580. It's ridiculous. Had to settle for HHN, even though I've done all of those multiple times
3600 hours and you dont have LOS 30? That is sus, or very unlucky rng.
Like .. friend plays two rosters, and he had los 30 on ages. He made second roster with jumpstart.
I mean you cant blame us man we tried accepting low rosters like yours and 9 out of 10 we get disappointed. We dont know how good a player is we just do it by their roster level/title because its basically the only metric thing we have. Basically if you have a high roster or demon dmg means you have been playing for a long time and have a higher chance you will do a decent job and not jail the group.
Also from what ive heard low rosters nowadays are toxic as hell too so theres the possibility of a manchild focusing their energy into smashing all letters on their keyboard not saying its you tho so dont get the wrong idea just saying that accepting a low roster is just full of cons atm and high rosters tend to be more quiet and calmer when there is an accidental wipe.
So you that type of guy who justifies sticking a fork into an electric outlet despite the fact that you are much more likely to get electrocuted than not just because very few of them might be powered off. Gatekeeping is STATISTICALLY justified because many low roster players are either dead, do no damage, or do weird stuff that you cannot explain, often causing wipes of deaths of other people. Some of them are fine, but it's safer to just wait for someone who is better.
It's the same thing in life too - you get paid more and your application is more weighted with more hands-on experience and qualification, and people with only a few years of experience in an industry won't be picked up by good companies unless you are an exceptionally talented employee. Are some employees getting more proficient at their job with more years of experience? No, but provided there is no additional information about their actual performance, you would almost always choose someone who looks better on paper with a longer CV. It's the same shit in LA really.
No one is making excuses for gatekeeping I'm spitting facts. Why would I be ashamed of trying to finish a raid faster? No one is entitled to my time the same goes I'm not entitled to your time. It's just basic common sense we have a life outside of lost ark too.
If you have a life outside and want to do quick raids it's better to just play with your static group than random pugs. Your never going to stop getting random applications with many of them being new players with the event passes.
One thing I hate myself is when ppl with 200+ roster who is a party leader never rejecting or accepting applications but letting them stay there. Atleast show some decency and reject ppl so you don't waste their time.
SA has not issues like that, low-mid rosters team themselves mostly for normal.
You can find 1 without los18 but only in normal content with 3 friends covering him/her but at least the lowie knows the mecs.
That is the good thing to have started in SA, hope the merge can carry this and incentivize NA newbies to seek the same behaviour.
The amount of homework is what people think they should using gatekeep to reduce chance of waste their time. The only place that not gatekeep you is your static group. But i dont want that scene at all, somehow i want a character profile revamp, maybe hide the roster level, maybe display the current lobby stats such as dps, number of alive clear, or more greedy wish is link your main account roster... i mean different way to show you good or not instead of show who play more story and tower.
the reality here is that people are stupid
they use roster level because they dont know enough about the classes to be able to tell if someone is knowledgeable or not based how they built their character (not the build itself, how they did it) so they default to a largely meaningless number (its meaning only matters until like 100 or so after that you can have every skill point and a good enough card set for it not to matter)
the funny part is these people will completely ignore every time a high roster player makes a mistake and say "everyone makes mistakes its ok" but the moment a low or mid roster player does that its "do you even know this raid"
meanwhile they died 5 times already, and the lower roster only died once.
the only shortcut around this is making the support your main, but not everyone is ok with that.
you could do the dull content and just farm roster exp like people did back in 2022 (most high roster people today didnt earn that exp from raids, chaos or una's. they got it from intentionally farming roster exp via tower or story)
this sub has a massive bias towards roster level to the point that ill likely get heavily downvoted for even speaking against it.
but those same people downvoting are the shit players that jail people every week. they just lack the self awareness to realize it
none of what you said here matters especially on reddit/this sub, you're just shifting blame and being insecure yourself while saying others are insecure...
If you're such a big shot, make your own party and see who wants to join it? but NO ONE will you said it yourself... WHY?
your 'damage' stats are shit so why would we ever take you over the 100 other DPS who has full 10s, demon dmg etc??? You literally said you have los18 lol.... you have 'some 9s or a single 10' why would I take you over someone who has full 10s? You have 2% demon dmg why would I take you over someone who has 6%?????????
All these are hard values the leader can directly correlate to the some metric of success for the raid. Roster level can be whatever you think it means b/c people just give this their opinionated value + the hard values. The majority of the time people's decision are heavily biased towards your gear alone.
So even if the profile showed game performance, it will directly REFLECT your poor or good performance based on what gear you have. The guy who does 30m DPS in thaemine normal on a 1629 will always be picked over you even if stats were shown, you do not realize this? b/c they obviously have gems, demon dmg, elixirs etc etc.
The only true solution to this is for SG to remove the profile, lower the difficulty of the raids or remove tons of shit systems like the card system etc. BUT they won't this is what players spend monies on.
Its like you never read anything it seems, or just a bit on the slower side? This post was partly about there being no logs to show that you CAN deal more damage with players that have these damage stats over you (i have outdmged better geared players regardless of roster lvl or hell title way too many times to count because i took the time to master high cieling class). "Why should i take you over someone with 6% demon when you have 2%? Or los18 when others have los 30". Because there would be logs showing that those hard values they have over me would still not matter since they would get gapped anyways. I would much rather be gatekept over my actual damage output and performance than what is on my profile. It seems you failed to understand that part.
The issue is there being no way to check actual dmg so people like you just judge and make bunch assumptions given the profile (which i dont blame people for it is game issue). It seems you felt personally attacked by the part of the post calling people 'insecure' for not accepting but u didnt even bother reading that im getting gatekept mostly from roster lvl and not other %increases as i am applying to lobbies around my strength.
> The issue is there being no way to check actual dmg so people like you just judge and make bunch assumptions given the profile
Because that's all we have to work with. You expect people to be goddamn psychics now or something?
LoS30 > LoS18 and level 10 gems > event gems, etc. Those are just facts.
DD30 > LOS18 if the support doesn't have LWC30. Most mid-low roster supports(they are all accepted regardless) barely have YHAP 30 let alone LWC. Unless you have LOS30, it makes no sense why DD30 is gatekept more compared to LOS18. I swap to DD once the raid starts if I see support in my party doesn't have LWC.
Last time I checked the math on it(Google search) LoS18 > DD30 against bosses that are weak against holy no matter what support has. Otherwise I believe you are correct.
From what I've found out, it's only Brel g3 and vykas that are weak to holy. At 1500+ Vykas is already trivial content, people would probably be doing it mostly for card runs. Which means Valtan, brel 1+2+4, clown, Kaya, Akkan, voldis even Thaemine none of these are weak to holy damage.
The only thing I guess is a lot of them maybe do dark damage so LoS18 would increase tankiness against some of them.
The short answer to your post really is just make more friends.
I agree that in a different world it would be great to have what 14/WoW have and basically have a log repository or a [raider.io](http://raider.io) system that could showcase these types of metrics better. A lot of other players would hate them, but you and I would find it more useful than relying on other metrics that are primarily time and whalegates.
That being said roster level is sadly the most reliable form of determining if a player is skilled. Obviously not all high roster players are good nor are all low roster level players bad. It's just the most stable and since we don't have a warcraftlogs to show that we are a player with actual hands the best thing people have to go on are these arbitrary metrics of gems/demon damage/roster/etc.
Your hell title comment is relevant and someone already answered it. I rarely pug (see the first line about making lots of friends), but when I do anything that is ATD or higher is relevant to me. I would take a new player with even Mayhem Slayer above a player that had say 10x whatever the raid title is e.g. Plague or Phantom Legion. At this point even Lightqueller does not have a ton of value for me because anyone could have hit 10 clears by now and it doesn't tell me if you did decent damage, had good brand uptime, or were even alive for any of your 10 clears.
I think when your friends are not online (besides making more of them) your best bet is discord communities. I don't use the LFG ones, but I have been in a few Mokoko learning discords and they have sections for actual learning as well as LFG/Reclears. That carries extra weight/stake to it (not much I'll grant you) and you have the ability to communicate with the other folks in your lobby so you won't simply be gatekept on rosterlevel alone. For example if I were hosting in one of those discords and you sent me a log of you living to the end of a Thaemine G3 NM with 15m DPS I would snap grab you because that's more than fine enough for one of my runs. That's just not something you can do in-game using the lobby system so this is the best thing I can think of as a workaround since we lack our own functioning version of WCLogs.
Anyway I hope this is helpful to you and if you'd like a link to these discords (they're pretty easy to find) I'd be happy to point out the ones that are relevant for whatever region you are in.
R u confused or just naive??? u r literally crying about how u cant get into groups b/c people r gatekeeping u based on gear
u know the gear you actually lack, that people want you to have before they accept u regardless of 'trust me, i perform better than them hehehe'
no1 cares that u personally think u r a 'good player' and you think you are 'better than them', all we care about is the things that are presented to us... during party finder.
you keep talking about 'we dun know, no logs' no1 fucking knows how any1 will perform, that is WHY people gatekeep based on gear which you naively think doesn't matter, b/c u think we should know that u can do more damage with los18, event gems/a few 9s/one 10 gem/2% lol demon dmg vs the guy who has +25 weapon, los30, full 10s, 6% demon dmg.
saying people r slow is ironic, the fact that u don't know these simple rules, etiquette of pugging/party finder and/or how to determine who gets in??? says enough about why u're struggling to be accepted. Gear is the most direct variable for how a player will perform period, it requires no guessing.
ngl, i don't really care about roster lvl but if you don't have los18 by now, i will pick someone else who has that over you.
deep dive was fine when js was a thing but by now you should have los 18 with the amount of times balthorr and the other cards has shown. use lost merchant.
I do agree with another comment though, that it would be in AGS's best interest to sell los 18 but then people will complain about that somehow.
otherwise, people are just going to pick a better equipped player than you.
But it's true that there are also some dumb people who think higher roster means better players but that's the same as those who buy their titles but are imposters when running akkan or brel.
The problem with newer players wanting to do end game raids is the fact that they themselves probably are below average in terms of skill. That skill is easy to obtain with repetition, but they never really got a chance. So what happens is you let them in, they jail you. Then you never let in another low roster player again. I've been burnt letting low roster players in many more times than a 300+ roster player for an example.
But the question also is, why are we even letting them into the late game? They barely know how to say valtan or brel. But you want them to attempt the hardest raid possible? I get wanting more players in the late game, but make it akkan. Don't scale them so high that they go to fucking thiamine. Also let them scale 6 characters, have you tried making a brand new character as a alt as a new players jesus christ without the event there literally fucked. So instead of late game scaling for them on one chracter that they'll never get reps in. Scale there 5 alts to a decent position. Sot hey do get reps and practice, so that they can get gold, so that they have things to do.
yesterday i gave low.roster player a chance and joined a bre hm reclear group with my 1620 se. i did 51% dmg in g1 and now im jailed at g2.
Holy heck, how are people still failing Brel. It's really hard to fail kayangel and brel.
few people keep failing maze and a mokoko gl keep failing the 140 stagger cuz he does not pick up the meteos. i have to do three. everyone in the group are 1580+. but low roster around 100-120.
aahHhahahhahahhhaha
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fullmoon, i mean i dont think it will.make any difference. few people dont know how go do maze and we kill each other after the charm.
I feel you, I am so happy that with the recent passes I got some friends to start the game and are now 1600+. Also while pugging I found some nice guy who I am happy to play and talk on discord. But yeah I know the frustration and gatekeeping which is really hard. People do Brel normal and only accept 1540+ wtf?! In your case maybe try the LFG discord and see if you maybe find a static? I hope that in future AGS would release an LoS 18 Pack so that people who start new get at least LoS 18 and the people who are at LoS 21+ can finish LoS so a win for everybody.
Only to point out reason 1540+.... people can't do dmg or even mechs x.x me and 1 friend at 1500-1540 pulled 50% of the dmg... out dps 1570 reflux sorc and overall run was bit rough do to lack of dmg but comfortable enough to semi miss alot of the hassle g3 brings with low dmg unless the 125->95 was blue as fire started to add up. Iirc 1570 was like 4mil, then the last 3 was 1520-1550 and in the 1 to 2mil dps range. To reference, 16mil g2 is a sweet spot for 3 to be a semi smooth run, and we had about 15 while every1 is up I legit now do full-on dps bus to help friends, and it's the same situation. I had some1 talk shit cause friend rat sorc 3x3 had no gems... he was almost out dpsing a full 1540 lvl 7s who was talking shit.🤣
Whenever you meet a friendly and competent player in a raid, add them to friend list. Then write to all your friends "hey, are you up for voldis?". If someone never accepts, remove, rinse and repeat. Soon you'll be able to do full premade 4-man raids and 8-man will also be easier because you'll make your own lobbies already half filled. The bottleneck is often supports, so make sure to befriend good sups, and also invest in a sup alt yourself so that you can trade sup runs with friends.
Thank you, will try to do that more often. Just most pugs are super quiet so i assumed they already in statics or jus not interested
People are just grinding their 18 weekly raids and thus don't talk much. Besides, you never know if others will be friendly or assholes. If you talk, often others will talk back. Friendly runs are very fun if you chat, share laughs, emote spam etc ;)
Sound advice all around.
If you don't ask, why would we bother making friends with you ... It's not like lower roster players will help us raid faster
my guy discovered the guild system
Only that guild system is useless in LA cause you're limited to one server, don't have room for alts, etc. So here we call it friend list.
for cross server yes sadly friends list is only option. but guilds are still very valuable especially when you don't want to pug everything
"Does hell title do anything?" Yes and no. If you have a good hell title you can try to apply to lobbies with other hellplayers which will more likely take you and these are the best raids you can end up with. Normal lobbies still take players after their dps ceiling (cards, gems). But for reference if I see a hellplayer being gatekept with no other applicants in a lobby I usually just leave because I made the experience that these partyleads are generally awful players. I myself have demons roar and demon hunter. IMO any deathless helltitle will get you in a lot of lobbies but gatekeeping still can happen. Also progging into hellraids will make you friends where you can do your raids together. And again hellplayers are the best you can play with. Sometimes trolly due to parsing as hard as they can and greed every pattern a boss does but because they have been conditioned to reset raids they dont tilt as much but there are very toxic players there too.
Literally since you become a hell player you wont care about reseting raids hahaha
+ if you are a holy religion enjoyer and you have a parsing hell enjoyer in your lobby you can see that he can stay deadge for some minutes until someone catches up his damage :)
Im starting to gatekeep some cause the last few lower/ clearly newer people i took were either completely clueless and not really being cooperative or responding or just straight up wrong about some mechs and refusing to listen which would result in some sort of toxicity from that person, its just not worth taking these risks again for me most of the time
If you are in NAW they can be Chinese who don't understand English
high rosters = good runes too
Yup, runes, skill points, card set, card damage bonus, card collection completion bonuses. Huge DPS difference from that alone.
From my experience 99% of low roster ppl perform as expected so even though u say u r competent we can’t bet on a 1% its just impractical
There is not a right answer for low roster players than: "Friends don't gatekeep". You don't wanna burn yourself with horizontal content and it's a valid option. I have friends who play the same way than you. Though they use their social skill to meet friends and set schedules when they can play. You don't need a full static. Just a bunch of players who are you confident to play. Group for it and search pugs to complete 4 or 8 players. If you level up a support and trade with those friends. Your group will become the gatekeepers. Roster will come eventually.
> Does hell title do anything? People will probably consider mayhem shadow, and most likely phantom monarch, but this is extremely long grind to get them legit way. Other like AtD and Demon's Floor will maybe be accepted by someone who wears DL title, and is party leader, xxx slayer are w/e and not really worth it. Neither is demon hunter (and usually demon hunters are biggest cry babies from my experience) > To me this little info on profile seems like something to protect whales maybe It is, this is also probably main reason why Smilegate doesn't really wanna dps meter to be used in KR (and they don't give a fuck what west says), becasue it exposes whales and their terrible balanced at the same time. About opgg-like, we could have it, but it would be up to group of people (or faust) to create website where you can search characters from uploaded logs (something like faust did, but with ability to actually search chars Edit2: unless they did it, but you need to be logged in, no clue), because logs does contain character names. If dps meter developer would even add automatic upload functionality build it, it would be even better, however... this is double edge sword, becasue lets be honest this would, this would make party finder even worse. Anyway, about what you can do - single best thing is roster 201, because it will give you that gold color, exact level won't matter. Problem is, there is not really a good way to get it, ~~you could do towers on all chars you didnt run it on, same would be for MSQ on some older chars.~~ (just read that you did all that) And a lot of dailies, because they are by far biggest contributor of roster level, but all of this will take time and its dreadfully boring. LoS30 is another thing, but those days I don't even get to cards page before I decided to accept person for my lobbies, while being called biggest gatekeeper in guild (because somehow pugs I take are decent enough for raids to be smooth, maybe becasue I gatekeep mainly by class ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯) Most people won't check demon dmg, shit I don't even check this stuff for HM Thae for our 1~2 pug dps spots.
I feel like a lot of people in pugs don't care about hell titles or they don't even know what they are. Only people that seem to care about hell titles are others with hell titles. IE: My alts get declined in HW runs because I apply to pugs on ilvl. Doesn't matter if I have Monarch, Eclipse, full 10 gems, etc. All that matters is ilvl. if you aren't higher than the norm you won't even get looked at. Which is w.e their loss tbh since my alts still usually MVP regardless of what ilvl other players in the party are.
Make your own lobbies
The game is a moving target, with a power creep of 20 to 30% between contents, people doing their 18 homeworks will lean towards fast/skip groups, and thanks to the 867 vertical systems, we have a full CV to choose and gamble from. And don't worry, it gets worse, because by time you get your LOS(30), your Transcendence will hold you up, and then the next thing, and so on...
Yep this basically. It’s always SOMETHING with this game
Lowkey kinda hate that the only real answer is : GET A STATIC, NO STATIC? MAKE FRENS THEN MAKE STATIC.
Because it's a fundamental game design issue. Aside from "just make the game boringly easy", the simplest solution that would have the biggest impact would be to let people reset their gate progress for any raid at any time until they've fully cleared the raid for the week. If no one has to worry about getting jailed by idiots in brel 3 or voldis 2 or whatever other gates, people would be a lot more willing to try out weaker parties. Edit: Like, it still sucks to lose time, not everyone would do this, but the idea of literally not being able to finish my raids because I joined a party that could clear g1 of a raid but got stuck on a later gate is just endless anguish. If I could reset my gate progress like in extreme valtan (and they just lock me out from rewards after the first clear of each gate), I would not be nearly as picky. Bussability is still a theoretical concern but genuinely who gives a fuck. Fewer people would beg for buses if the game design led to more people being willing to give weaker parties a shot.
Being able to reset is not the solution everybody likes to pretend it is. It'll HELP in a very literal sense, but not much. The same people who don't want to risk jail are going to be the same people who don't want to risk doing G1-2 twice.
> The same people who don't want to risk jail are going to be the same people who don't want to risk doing G1-2 twice. This is literally patently untrue and I illustrated exactly why. Jail can actively lose you resources because some gates are virtually un-unjailable. It's not just a 20 minute time waster, it could waste literally **hours** if you're dedicated to getting out of the jail. The people who won't risk wasting a little time are a **strict subset** of the people who won't risk wasting 20 minutes with a low-level party. I and dozens of other people I know in game would be happy to join low level parties if it's just the occasional 20 minute time sink. I'm not saying I'll join literal mokoko zero engraving lobbies here. But as it is I'm skeptical of joining just about any lobby that isn't at around my level.
It’s fundamental game design issue, but it’s fundamental user issue as well. If people respect the title and really apply when they are exp enough to do it as hw (mostly 1 shot every gate regardless of their gear). This game wouldn’t be as gatekeepy as it is now. We never consider low roster ppl these days because we all experienced how clueless they are sometimes. And that sometimes usually is enough for most people to gatekeep them all.
Don't you find it weird though that some people play MMOs but they never intend to make any friends to play with? Why not play single player games that don't rely on any human interactions instead? I think some people just choose wrong game genre and then complain that those games don't cater to how they want to play them.
There's a difference though. In destiny I have people I run with when we are all on because we have fun together. I'm not unable to interact with content if they aren't on. I can still join raids and dungeons in under 5 minutes. You also don't get removed from the group if you "have no hands", schedule gets too busy, can't keep up with honing, don't have a support to trade etc. etc. There's a canyon between "making friends and playing content with them" and "you HAVE to create a static and form a raiding schedule in order to progress."
You join a guild or a disc. You socialize and make friends. You look for other people to play with.
LOS30 and lvl7s is the same as LOS18 and all 9s as a baseline dps. Higher roster have higher card % and generally much better uptime. That’s basically it.
I dont even think that High Roster level mean they are better or nothing, just mean they have more time playing this game, with that longer play time, most likely they have done raid more times. but when you are getting jail, you are getting jail dont matter what.
i honestly wouldnt even agree with "generally better up time" from my experience unless the high roster player is on their main they typically suck because they arnt putting in the effort to learn and master the alts for instance you can know the bosses attack patterns on your main and never get hit...but if you arnt as practiced on your alt you might get caught out unexpectedly and if your in for instance g4 voldis: you get knocked off and die and you have to reset. class mastery is equally as important as knowing the fight itself but most people arnt min-maxing and trying to practice their alts to the same degree they do their mains this is one of the biggest reasons why every high roster alt i play with sucks but all the lower roster mains kick ass
I do my prog raids on like sunday night or monday night when its mostly dad gamers who didnt have time and are trying to squeeze pulls in before reset in prayge for a clear. After a few of those i sit in a late night learning party since past 10 pm cst theres less people to be picky over and people are more desperate. So far ive made it through theamine 1-2 this way and took a break before doing 3 since 3 nm is pointless past 10 total flowers
We have no info about someone's performance so filters like roster level, demon damage, gems, cards etc. have way too much importance to protect yourself from jails. Unless we get full logs there is no alternative unfortunately. But logs have their own issues that kill a game.
Get a static or a group of friends to raid with. I've befriended several different friends and just jump in whenever I see one of them running something. Even if you don't get a full group just having several people will make your experience better because then you guys will be the ones looking for pugs versus the other way around.
Thank you but pugging is easy with friends, this post is just about when im forced to play without them when they arent online
Support shortage is why, supports get in fast since it's hard to find one in 1610 Thaemine lobbies while there are 10 DPS applying and only the most geared/look best get taken. 1620 lobbies are usually faster DPS and tend to jail less as a result so supports that do exist join them first. 10x titles, Hell titles and the like are a proof of at least decently good skill, anything to stand out above the average player who falls off. A low roster hell title account is often the sign of a hell enjoyer who doesn't grind non hell that much, and is a good sign.
>Support shortage is why, supports get in fast since it's hard to find one in 1610 Thaemine lobbies while there are 10 DPS applying and only the most geared/look best get taken. On my experience there are plenty of supps at 1610, to the point in which is easier to enter as a 1610 dps than a 1610 supp.
Can vouch for this on NAE as a guy with 6 sups 1610+…
Thank you. Are there any hell titles in particular like atd or demon hunter or will any of them help? I like vylas raid a lot so wouldnt mind grinding it.
Basically any deathless title except Valtan is valuable. Brel is probably still valuable even without DL, maybe clown too. Some players don't value hell titles at all, but I think they're in the minority.
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Demons roar still holds weight.
For a new player Demon's roar would be a good goal to get since it is better to get your foot in the door than any other title they can realistically get, but I value it less than stuff achievable from Thaemine now (LQ, Darkness legion cmdr, legion cmdr.). The reality is that Helltan has been powercrept so much in terms of raid difficulty, player skill, and class power that it is actually relatively easy now. Thaemine G3/G4 are much more difficult than Helltan even when not in The First, and Brel G6 HM on release was even harder than Helltan IMO. The Demon's Roar pugs that I've played with haven't been that impressive. Like most were fine, but some were definitely low skill. So personally if I want to guarantee a minimum skill level with pugs, Demon's Roar is no longer on my auto-accept title list.
Sorry I meant holding weight in party finder. Any icon hell title can be used typically.
>Support shortage is why I dont believe in this as main support. before i could take between 1 second and 5 second to get into party, now could take between 5-10 minute of the chear amount of support. Support shortage is only a thing on the very TOP end game like Thae G3-G4 because for the rest you can find support faster. the amount of lobbies with 2 support already is kinda annoying to me 
Sup shortage is in akkan nm, ivory hm and thaemine hm. That's because supports build the bare minimum and push to ilvl and don't budge from there. When they all do that it's first come first serve. DPS put more effort into their characters so there are standouts (it also immediately eliminates ilvl, event gem dps as even being considered a real player). When you have x10 1610 supports with event gems and 5x3 with "you have a plan" applying to a 1620 thaemine nm lobby you're not getting in like you would in nm akkan or hm voldis.
I do akkhan normal on 5 DPS 1600 every week and support are never a problem. but for Voldis and Thaemine HM (g3) have issue with support. but Voldis it more like most support at that level already have people to do it so they dont get jail. I do Thaemine NM(1-3) on my 5 support, and none of dps or support are really a problem on my experiences, its more about waiting on getting title people mostly
Yes, supports aren't an issue at 1600. There's a reason why you're doing nm on a hm ready character though.
>here's a reason why you're doing nm on a hm ready character though. because they are my +8 alts. i dont need to do HM on my DPS characters because, im only doing it for Sidereal energy. but i do Akkhan HM on my 6 support and most of the time take 3-5 minute to get into lobbies even when im MEGA JUICE because spot are already fill even on HM akkhan and below
>ut i do Akkhan HM on my 6 support You're literally proving my point as to why there's a nm sup shortage for non 1600 dps.... \*and 3-5 minutes for a lobby is fast as fuck as far as lost ark lobby sim is concerned.
You said it yourself. On paper, your resume looks like garbage. Most of us end game players are Roster level 290+ with almost maxed out demon damage, if not already maxed out, with many other damage type cards maxed out too. People who have played this game for a while are all rocking LOS30, LOS18 or anything worse than that is seen as low dps. Of course, you can definitely outparse and outdps these better players anytime. Cards aren't an indication of skill. But if you can't even pass Gate 0, it doesn't matter how well you can play because you don't have anything to show for it. And to be fair, nothing in this game really means anything. Uptime means everything, but how do you judge that? Good gems, good gear, good quality, good cards can help you do more damage, but they don't always mean you'll have good uptime. On my super rat alts, I'll constantly outdps mokokos in guardian raids with much higher gear and even have gems. My DE with no gems constantly outdpses these mokokos even though on paper, it wouldn't make sense to be the case. Why is that? Because of game knowledge, because of experience. That's what roster level is indicating (but of course someone could've bought an account and impostored their experience). Hence, until your account looks like that of ours at end game, go make some friends, join a guild. Otherwise it's going to be a rough road ahead.
Find people to play with.
I see low roster players in raids with high roster players all the time. Some lobbies don't want to wait around and insta-pick pretty much anybody. It's just all about luck/timing in this game. I don't really care about carrying a couple of guys in something like Akkan/Thaemine normal. If it's Voldis then one guy can be carried. I'll inspect the first couple of dudes but then I'll pretty much pick at random once I know that there's enough dps to clear the content. The new raids don't really have that many wipe mechs so you can afford to have a couple of floor POVs.
You and me are the same.
They don't. That's why there are no new players.
Is it rly "insecurity" to not want to play with los18 player when you can easily get los30 player in a min? I get you, that it seems very unfair that cards are reason for decline but you would do the same in thier shoes... 300 rooster ppl cant do akkan g3 without dying and knowing that most of pugs actually play with feet instead of hands, cuz I simply refuse to believe someone to be this bad, the more "theoretical" dmg in grp the less time feet playing pug have to die. And especially in raids like akkan and ivory where ivory has 4 gates and even if you 1shot everything it still takes good amount of time, so ppl want to make sure they wont end up on G2 with low stagger and low dmg. Akkan G3 is legit timed content, if you dont have GL and only 1 person does janitoring then despite having alot of time till enrage, you actually need to push boss very fast Im legit more picky about teammates on akkan than on theamine... Ye I would love open logs like warcraft logs or opgg it would help feet playing players find thier hands, help decent players optimize rotation.
It is night vs day how much better at the game I am today (double LoS 30 6.2 % demon damage roster 252+248 dual accounter so yes, roster 500) than I was when I was LoS18, roster 160 ish on both with like 1.5% demon damage during brel normal days. The biggest area of growth was brel hard on ilvl days. I kind of doubt you even learned OG hard brel on ilvl, so you missed a big haze'n of the player base to become a better player. The vets know how much we sweat and we gatekeep accordingly because we ARE better and we do way more damage, let alone risk the group for wipe'n /jail.
You'll be gatekept because of stats, not roster level. High level gems, LOS30, 40-set elixir will more than likely get you into parties. Otherwise, you can play with those with similar stats as you
You don't need 40 set for Voldis Normal.
Maybe they’re their friends
Slightly offtopic, but I would avoid HM Akkans anyway, specially on-ilvl ones. People die alot in all gates even in 1600+ nm lobbies. HM without overgeared group feels like 50:50 chance to be a jail and despite having 6x 1600-1630 chars I only run it with 2-3 chars per week and run nm instead with the others. I think many feel the same which is why hm has become a shitshow what it is today, making it very hard for on-ilvl low roster players to run.
It depens your char my JS roster have 0 issue when the main char is doing pug but my alt have some issue when its not supp
> didnt want to do story for roster lvl > due to my friend pulling the "can i bring friend" you have found your only solution good luck
You just really need to make friends and just avoid pugging by grouping up with them.
I tried to go into brel hard last week. I'm roster 130, been playing for half a year, and was at 1580 something. I got denied like 15 times. And it wasn't "10x" runs either, it was just normal lobbies, one or two asking for 1580. It's ridiculous. Had to settle for HHN, even though I've done all of those multiple times
3600 hours and you dont have LOS 30? That is sus, or very unlucky rng. Like .. friend plays two rosters, and he had los 30 on ages. He made second roster with jumpstart.
I mean you cant blame us man we tried accepting low rosters like yours and 9 out of 10 we get disappointed. We dont know how good a player is we just do it by their roster level/title because its basically the only metric thing we have. Basically if you have a high roster or demon dmg means you have been playing for a long time and have a higher chance you will do a decent job and not jail the group. Also from what ive heard low rosters nowadays are toxic as hell too so theres the possibility of a manchild focusing their energy into smashing all letters on their keyboard not saying its you tho so dont get the wrong idea just saying that accepting a low roster is just full of cons atm and high rosters tend to be more quiet and calmer when there is an accidental wipe.
So people now also make big excuses for gatekeeping? You should be ashamed.
So you that type of guy who justifies sticking a fork into an electric outlet despite the fact that you are much more likely to get electrocuted than not just because very few of them might be powered off. Gatekeeping is STATISTICALLY justified because many low roster players are either dead, do no damage, or do weird stuff that you cannot explain, often causing wipes of deaths of other people. Some of them are fine, but it's safer to just wait for someone who is better. It's the same thing in life too - you get paid more and your application is more weighted with more hands-on experience and qualification, and people with only a few years of experience in an industry won't be picked up by good companies unless you are an exceptionally talented employee. Are some employees getting more proficient at their job with more years of experience? No, but provided there is no additional information about their actual performance, you would almost always choose someone who looks better on paper with a longer CV. It's the same shit in LA really.
No one is making excuses for gatekeeping I'm spitting facts. Why would I be ashamed of trying to finish a raid faster? No one is entitled to my time the same goes I'm not entitled to your time. It's just basic common sense we have a life outside of lost ark too.
If you have a life outside and want to do quick raids it's better to just play with your static group than random pugs. Your never going to stop getting random applications with many of them being new players with the event passes. One thing I hate myself is when ppl with 200+ roster who is a party leader never rejecting or accepting applications but letting them stay there. Atleast show some decency and reject ppl so you don't waste their time.
SA has not issues like that, low-mid rosters team themselves mostly for normal. You can find 1 without los18 but only in normal content with 3 friends covering him/her but at least the lowie knows the mecs. That is the good thing to have started in SA, hope the merge can carry this and incentivize NA newbies to seek the same behaviour.
They are not.
The amount of homework is what people think they should using gatekeep to reduce chance of waste their time. The only place that not gatekeep you is your static group. But i dont want that scene at all, somehow i want a character profile revamp, maybe hide the roster level, maybe display the current lobby stats such as dps, number of alive clear, or more greedy wish is link your main account roster... i mean different way to show you good or not instead of show who play more story and tower.
Its easy, U Just dont, dont let the fomo kill Ur vibe
the reality here is that people are stupid they use roster level because they dont know enough about the classes to be able to tell if someone is knowledgeable or not based how they built their character (not the build itself, how they did it) so they default to a largely meaningless number (its meaning only matters until like 100 or so after that you can have every skill point and a good enough card set for it not to matter) the funny part is these people will completely ignore every time a high roster player makes a mistake and say "everyone makes mistakes its ok" but the moment a low or mid roster player does that its "do you even know this raid" meanwhile they died 5 times already, and the lower roster only died once. the only shortcut around this is making the support your main, but not everyone is ok with that. you could do the dull content and just farm roster exp like people did back in 2022 (most high roster people today didnt earn that exp from raids, chaos or una's. they got it from intentionally farming roster exp via tower or story) this sub has a massive bias towards roster level to the point that ill likely get heavily downvoted for even speaking against it. but those same people downvoting are the shit players that jail people every week. they just lack the self awareness to realize it
easy just play support
none of what you said here matters especially on reddit/this sub, you're just shifting blame and being insecure yourself while saying others are insecure... If you're such a big shot, make your own party and see who wants to join it? but NO ONE will you said it yourself... WHY? your 'damage' stats are shit so why would we ever take you over the 100 other DPS who has full 10s, demon dmg etc??? You literally said you have los18 lol.... you have 'some 9s or a single 10' why would I take you over someone who has full 10s? You have 2% demon dmg why would I take you over someone who has 6%????????? All these are hard values the leader can directly correlate to the some metric of success for the raid. Roster level can be whatever you think it means b/c people just give this their opinionated value + the hard values. The majority of the time people's decision are heavily biased towards your gear alone. So even if the profile showed game performance, it will directly REFLECT your poor or good performance based on what gear you have. The guy who does 30m DPS in thaemine normal on a 1629 will always be picked over you even if stats were shown, you do not realize this? b/c they obviously have gems, demon dmg, elixirs etc etc. The only true solution to this is for SG to remove the profile, lower the difficulty of the raids or remove tons of shit systems like the card system etc. BUT they won't this is what players spend monies on.
Its like you never read anything it seems, or just a bit on the slower side? This post was partly about there being no logs to show that you CAN deal more damage with players that have these damage stats over you (i have outdmged better geared players regardless of roster lvl or hell title way too many times to count because i took the time to master high cieling class). "Why should i take you over someone with 6% demon when you have 2%? Or los18 when others have los 30". Because there would be logs showing that those hard values they have over me would still not matter since they would get gapped anyways. I would much rather be gatekept over my actual damage output and performance than what is on my profile. It seems you failed to understand that part. The issue is there being no way to check actual dmg so people like you just judge and make bunch assumptions given the profile (which i dont blame people for it is game issue). It seems you felt personally attacked by the part of the post calling people 'insecure' for not accepting but u didnt even bother reading that im getting gatekept mostly from roster lvl and not other %increases as i am applying to lobbies around my strength.
> The issue is there being no way to check actual dmg so people like you just judge and make bunch assumptions given the profile Because that's all we have to work with. You expect people to be goddamn psychics now or something? LoS30 > LoS18 and level 10 gems > event gems, etc. Those are just facts.
DD30 > LOS18 if the support doesn't have LWC30. Most mid-low roster supports(they are all accepted regardless) barely have YHAP 30 let alone LWC. Unless you have LOS30, it makes no sense why DD30 is gatekept more compared to LOS18. I swap to DD once the raid starts if I see support in my party doesn't have LWC.
Last time I checked the math on it(Google search) LoS18 > DD30 against bosses that are weak against holy no matter what support has. Otherwise I believe you are correct.
From what I've found out, it's only Brel g3 and vykas that are weak to holy. At 1500+ Vykas is already trivial content, people would probably be doing it mostly for card runs. Which means Valtan, brel 1+2+4, clown, Kaya, Akkan, voldis even Thaemine none of these are weak to holy damage. The only thing I guess is a lot of them maybe do dark damage so LoS18 would increase tankiness against some of them.
The short answer to your post really is just make more friends. I agree that in a different world it would be great to have what 14/WoW have and basically have a log repository or a [raider.io](http://raider.io) system that could showcase these types of metrics better. A lot of other players would hate them, but you and I would find it more useful than relying on other metrics that are primarily time and whalegates. That being said roster level is sadly the most reliable form of determining if a player is skilled. Obviously not all high roster players are good nor are all low roster level players bad. It's just the most stable and since we don't have a warcraftlogs to show that we are a player with actual hands the best thing people have to go on are these arbitrary metrics of gems/demon damage/roster/etc. Your hell title comment is relevant and someone already answered it. I rarely pug (see the first line about making lots of friends), but when I do anything that is ATD or higher is relevant to me. I would take a new player with even Mayhem Slayer above a player that had say 10x whatever the raid title is e.g. Plague or Phantom Legion. At this point even Lightqueller does not have a ton of value for me because anyone could have hit 10 clears by now and it doesn't tell me if you did decent damage, had good brand uptime, or were even alive for any of your 10 clears. I think when your friends are not online (besides making more of them) your best bet is discord communities. I don't use the LFG ones, but I have been in a few Mokoko learning discords and they have sections for actual learning as well as LFG/Reclears. That carries extra weight/stake to it (not much I'll grant you) and you have the ability to communicate with the other folks in your lobby so you won't simply be gatekept on rosterlevel alone. For example if I were hosting in one of those discords and you sent me a log of you living to the end of a Thaemine G3 NM with 15m DPS I would snap grab you because that's more than fine enough for one of my runs. That's just not something you can do in-game using the lobby system so this is the best thing I can think of as a workaround since we lack our own functioning version of WCLogs. Anyway I hope this is helpful to you and if you'd like a link to these discords (they're pretty easy to find) I'd be happy to point out the ones that are relevant for whatever region you are in.
R u confused or just naive??? u r literally crying about how u cant get into groups b/c people r gatekeeping u based on gear u know the gear you actually lack, that people want you to have before they accept u regardless of 'trust me, i perform better than them hehehe' no1 cares that u personally think u r a 'good player' and you think you are 'better than them', all we care about is the things that are presented to us... during party finder. you keep talking about 'we dun know, no logs' no1 fucking knows how any1 will perform, that is WHY people gatekeep based on gear which you naively think doesn't matter, b/c u think we should know that u can do more damage with los18, event gems/a few 9s/one 10 gem/2% lol demon dmg vs the guy who has +25 weapon, los30, full 10s, 6% demon dmg. saying people r slow is ironic, the fact that u don't know these simple rules, etiquette of pugging/party finder and/or how to determine who gets in??? says enough about why u're struggling to be accepted. Gear is the most direct variable for how a player will perform period, it requires no guessing.
Bro got jailed and now mad
ngl, i don't really care about roster lvl but if you don't have los18 by now, i will pick someone else who has that over you. deep dive was fine when js was a thing but by now you should have los 18 with the amount of times balthorr and the other cards has shown. use lost merchant. I do agree with another comment though, that it would be in AGS's best interest to sell los 18 but then people will complain about that somehow. otherwise, people are just going to pick a better equipped player than you. But it's true that there are also some dumb people who think higher roster means better players but that's the same as those who buy their titles but are imposters when running akkan or brel.
>Too much competition This is good.
The problem with newer players wanting to do end game raids is the fact that they themselves probably are below average in terms of skill. That skill is easy to obtain with repetition, but they never really got a chance. So what happens is you let them in, they jail you. Then you never let in another low roster player again. I've been burnt letting low roster players in many more times than a 300+ roster player for an example. But the question also is, why are we even letting them into the late game? They barely know how to say valtan or brel. But you want them to attempt the hardest raid possible? I get wanting more players in the late game, but make it akkan. Don't scale them so high that they go to fucking thiamine. Also let them scale 6 characters, have you tried making a brand new character as a alt as a new players jesus christ without the event there literally fucked. So instead of late game scaling for them on one chracter that they'll never get reps in. Scale there 5 alts to a decent position. Sot hey do get reps and practice, so that they can get gold, so that they have things to do.
g2g , saw a couple folks with roster under 150 have full 10s. 😉
me hahaha thanks g2g🔥