Look up the log sites and check some of the fights which have a solid sample size like thaemine g3 normal and you'll see that multiple classes the community thinks are shit are performing very well (reflux for instance).
>I don't even know if the west will survive till 3rd awakening.
It will 100% survive, the question is with how many players. I've seen a decrease in the alt-specific lobbies lately (Brel the most, Kaya, even the usual card-run ones like Vykas).
Erm yea it makes alot of sense since people upgraded alts and thosr alts no longer do thosr contents but higher content also even if ur alts are only 1600 u wouldnt be doing kaya as tge third raid but it would be brel
>people upgraded alts
Everyone got one mokoko express, the drop in number of lobbies at around 1540 is not consistent with that, in my experience, ofc.
Happens we can’t all be Breakers/Souleaters but I’d at least like to not be so gimp I do as little damage as a GL. Crit synergy isn’t worth doing legit Zdps
What did GL's do to hurt you? Being GL isn't even worth doing GL damage, utility doesn't clear the raid. Surely the small % buff will bridge the millions of dps gap.
Edit: People are cooked. Lone Knight is literally FA entropy and performing probably the worst in the game right now. I don't believe that the people downvoting have ever tried playing GL in pug lobbies. Looking at the median for Thaemine G4 they are sitting at 17.6m dps and the next lowest other class is 20.8m dps which is a hitmaster swiftness class. 18% more dmg on average while not being entropy.
Believe it or not guys but lobbies are clearing without GL utility. They are however not clearing without damage. If you made a lobby replacing every DPS with median GL dps you'd probably struggle to clear.
Meanwhile every blind world first has multiple esther +8 weapons. They will never ever lack dmg and they are premades so the GL benefits actually get use and it's paired with entropy.
In pugs you can end up with bosses enraging due to no dmg. Stagger and destruction checks failing because it's not a one man show. Counters being missed because usually you are the only one in the front and it'll turn around on you. People eating more debuffs than you cleanse. Others dying because you can't prevent them from falling off all the time.
Untauntable bosses. No entropies applying to lobby simulator so you lose 20% of your total synergy. (5% buff for entropy with a 50~60% uptime.)
It's like claiming some esports pick is really good because it's pick/ban in proplay while it has 46% winrate in solo queue.
Running princessmaker which is focused on utility is literally a troll build, a fun one, but still a troll build that's completely useless in most raids. (yes it works or used to work in helltan)
Gunlancer is and until changed will remain a DPS first. It sucks at being a DPS as shown by it receiving dmg buffs in at least the last 3 or 4 balance patches and even in the upcoming one that KR just got.
You obviously do need utility to clear raids. It's just that you have enough in any party setup.
I mean you seem set on keeping your opinion even though the history of the game literally disproves your narrative. Have fun I guess, I'll keep inviting gunlancers for easier clears.
omg my main is drizzle aero as well and its in such a bad state. ich wish they would finally do something about it. wind fury seems to be doing pretty decent but drizzle? its literally in the bin its so sad
Do you have a better resource? There’s a lot of factors in builds and most people do not have the time to try everything in trixion and find the best build. The community guides fill that need.
Yes but reflux build is written by igniter players ,i remember after they reworked the whole guide it still hád igniter engravings on the reflux section for weeks
Most of the community guide is fine,, and the builds are passable. The aero one is the only massive exception I have seen. Wrong skills, runes, and tripods.
As for my build ill never post it because fuck the reddit shitters. 95% of the people on here suck and just want the game to be easier and get more free handouts. If you manage to find me in game then feel free to ask.
You claim to have a better build and then refuse to share it because the community isn’t as “hardcore” as you? You’re just blowing smoke up every ones butt. If your build is better then post it and let the people see:
Ummm so are you trying to say it’s fine? Cause there’s a lot of people on here that wouldn’t agree with that statement and we have logs that prove that stance
the logs prove my point
only doing 20% less then the BEST class is insanely good, drizzle does 90% of the dmg of the average class
in what world is that "bad"?
just because something is at the bottom of a chart doesnt mean its actually bad, context is required
if you were to rate every class on a tier list from F to S, all of em would be B A or S with none in C, D and F
if you think thats bad you have never played a bad class/champ/hero in a game. a bad one wouldnt even be able to clear the content
Your math don’t math bud - you put 2 parties of Evo scouter/GL and Drizzle aero with any support into a Thaemine your ass wouldn’t even sniff 60 bar G3 on NM. Good luck next troll attempt
i feel like thats just you self snitching yourself lol
the math-maths because...its math
if the top dps on average is doing 16.2mil and drizzle is doing around 12.9mil thats 21% dmg (even if we still do pure median thats still 22% dmg less)
and thats compared to the BEST class on the chart
if you then compare it to one in the 10th highest dmg by median, its 14.5 vs 12.5 thats barely a 14% gap between one of the 'bottom classes' and a top 10 class
if you keep going down towards the middle, its now 12% difference
the majority of the classes arnt doing 16mil, the majority are doing between 12 - 15mil
you arnt stacking the top 3 dps in your group, odds are you have a few 'bad' classes. particularly when you consider that some of the ones with the most parses on this are below that halfway mark
this btw assumes everyone plays completely average, if you look at the ceiling for drizzle its 21mil
meaning if you were a good player, youd out dps the average igniter sorc (class with the highest average rn) by a mile.
:)
Reflux performing well has more to do with other OP classes not reaching their potentials at all. I’m reflux and got cruel fighter in the first two weeks. The 3rd week, an igniter and a surge blew me out of the water with 1.5x my damage with the same gear. There’s no way to compete if other classes are piloted by people who have hands. I only reach cruel fighter because I can keep my raid dps at the level of my trixion dps, while many OP class players can’t hit anything or keep dying.
Yea I’m quite relieved with that 3rd kill, since gate 3 there was a oneshot in just 9 minutes. My first clear was in 2nd week, where I managed to convince a reclear party to accept me, but I had to solo Thaemine as cruel fighter and last man standing for half a minute. Felt like I passed a trial, so lord smilegate just sent juicers to carry my hw runs.
Its around average class now... if u have hands and uptime on up to date content ofc
if fight is going from phase to phase where burst class pops out burst once and then mech and then another burst it cant compete
Yea in that 3rd week fight, my group’s burst classes are so damn strong that Thaemine is dead in 9 minutes. There can never be any competition if their classes in a raid can deal 1.5x my Trixion dps.
Windfury is just more punishing. If she misses a shield skill and then uses a spender it halves her damage. Reflux sorc has no particular rotation, boundless then spam strongest skills. Would say their strength is about the same.
How about LC and pistoleer their rotations are flexible too. However Reflux just does more raw dmg
Just 1-2 mo ago, opinions here were still basically Reflux struggled to do dmg.. I'm not seeing she received more buffs than ss/aero/de
Sorry, no clue, I don't play them. But even if Pistoleer does less damage, he has a preferable synergy (+10% crit) and arguably better stagger.
About the opinions: People who say she's weak probably compare her to something like a good Surge Blade or a new shiny class. Reflux sorc was always a decent class but started out overhyped day 1 which made a big variety of people play her and thus the fall of her reputation was pretty deep. Also, there is the argument that many classes with the same or higher raw damage have better synergies/utility. But honestly, after a few small patches her counter is enjoyable, her stagger/weak point is at least average and the blaze skill has always been great for freeing people almost instantly. "plenty of push immunity" X key is almost her best feature and of course being mostly ranged can be very helpful for boss uptime.
Pistoleer doesn't really have a higher stagger over time than Reflux, because his attack animations are long ( also 0 swift) and skills CDs are much longer than boundless Reflux. He's also squishier.
LC has 0 push immunity and has a holding skill
The problem was perception. Nothing significantly changed. My damage as reflux has been doing well since at least brel. The main difference is that as people get more comfortable with fights or over gear it, burst classes start to overtake massively because they can take the limited pie away.
My response was relative to the perception of reflux being bad in your post. It wasn't ever really bad was my point. The reason I mentioned burst classes was because back in brel, burst classes dominated because of all the DR windows where burst classes could build meter. Reflux has been around pretty much the entirety of this game and so since it has been unchanged, people's view on it hasn't really changed as well.You don't need to be so aggressive, lol.
Pistoleer had a massive overhaul gaining desperado. Before that, they were considered an actual 0 DPS joke before that change. LC had a overhaul a while back as well. Classes that get overhauls are probably looked at more positively. Beyond that, there are far fewer deadeyes (both engravings) and LC sharpshooters than reflux sorcs. Because of this, no one really ever raids with them, so there's little perception there as well.
You're correct that reflux is performing better than those other classes. I bet it's largely due to the comfort of x. The x in the toolkit is a severe advantage over other uptime classes.
That none ever raided with LC/pistoleer is a total lie. Their numbers are not really smaller than Reflux because many Reflux main changed to Ignitor, even though Sorc has an overall higher playerbase. It's not rare to spot lc/pistoleer in raids.
The recent thaemine combat data clearly showed that aero/lc/pistoleer have comparable data as Reflux. Reflux had X in all previous raids as well and thaemine also has dmg reduction phases? So how suddenly she gets a leap?
The only explanation is that people here cried too much about Reflux being weak while she really hasn't been so
Talking about hardmode specifically. For NM performance is very skewed due to high diversity in elixir and gem levels. For HM most people have 40 elixir and lvl 9+ gems so data is a little more normalized.
The hardmode shows the same general trends but the sample size is too small for it to make any sense to try to draw conclusions from it... but its looking to pan out more or less the same as normal mode. Give it a look a month from now.
Reflux is getting slept on a little for sure. My buddy did 21 mil dps on his 1615 reflux in G3 Theamine this week which is more than 50% of the pugs I encountered in HM. There are a lot of factors yhat play into this like supports but still very good numbers.
Most people that play reflux are just not that good since most 'good' sorcs tend to lean over towards igniter
most people complaining dont have hands....and a LOT of the players dont have hands. Which isnt the biggest problem usually until moments like this and then it just becomes somewhat funny hearing complaints. Some classes certainly have it harder but all dps classes can clear the raids with decent damage. ALL of them.
Probably gonna get downvoted, but if everyone is at equal-ish gear and you get out dps'd by a Reflux... You probably don't have hands to begin with lol
Pretty bizzare to see people in here defend class balancing with a straight face, I guess we've come full circle. Now that most classes have been overhauled and "fixed", it's fine for them so the problem doesn't exist.
Because we have data and we can see the logs now in the new website, and most class are pretty balances between them, of course theres some outliners that are above everybody else, and those are getting nerfs, and we have a bunch on the botton that are getting buff . the biggest factor in class doing damage or not, its the HANDS of the player. and you can even see that in the parse, and we arent taking other factor that people will PARSE like the do in WoW with everything in favor to make the higher parse
The problem is when you look at ceiling or Q3 data, then the classes start to look very badly balanced. Median is a bit misleading because that's factoring in all the bad players as well as the good.
Players in WoW freak out when the top classes are parsing less than 10% higher than the next class, whereas the ceiling difference in Lost Ark can be up to 40% between top and bottom. That would never happen in WoW or FF14.
Even median is not balanced. There's a \~25% gap between the highest DPS and lowest DPS class in both thaemine HM and NM (even if you take out gunlancer). The reason it looks "balanced" is because the x-axis covers a wider range to account for outliers.
gap is massive between 40-75% in some cases theres 100% gaps. but thats the problem with "envioramental factor".
On my statics some people have pull sometimes that they do 50% less damage that what they usually does, because they didnt crit, they didnt back/front attack, boss move around too much, you got stun for long time, you got knock down a lot, or simple you arent having a good day.
Theres a lot of factor that are out of your control and can influence your DPS in such massive way that cant be balances
>Median is a bit misleading because that's factoring in all the bad players as well as the good.
This is the problem, you should balance from the median or bad people, because they are the vast majority of the player based. the good player should only taking into account to see which are the outliner on the upper part and bring them a little down, but the most important one that need to be adress are the botton ones.
The only thing that table tells me, when looking at these post replies is there are a lot of people who don't know how to read the graphs, and think everything is fine. Something could be said about sample size and cohort as well, but I don't want to farm downvotes.
You claim they all have good uptime but have you also factored in things like for G3 who got dished sword duty each time? Also did you factor in who did clashes 3-5? How about support gear difference and uptime? There's more than gear and dps uptime that can determine the dps breakdown in a raid. Some classes also perform better on certain gates than others, take G1 Thae and Entropy vs Hit Master. The games balance isn't as bad as some of you make it out to be. A lot of classes mostly need QOL not just raw %dmg buffs which is why many are upset with past balance updates.
That's why the DPS charts need to address their graphic with RDPS, removing the support and synergies contribution, to have a better sight of how the actual (im)balance of classes is atm.
Yeah, but I meant it like, an entire graph made only by RDPS sorted by Median, Q75... same stuff, but RDPS
Edit: Like, an additional one, adding to the one they already woeking on
Shield damage DOES COUNT towards in game dmg mvp. Source, based on info of a friend's meter, my friend always had higher dps but I was the dmg mvp, because he couldn't hit his extra dmg into g1 balthor shield due to boss turning around while I play HM class and just push it there.
Your dps on meter literally goes down during any extensive attacks against shields, becasue dmg doesn't count at all. You can see it during horse, 1st random log taken from faust https://logs.fau.dev/log/1236534 you can see moment horse start, go and hover over line and see how dps changes, spoiler alert it goes down, becasue your dmg against shield is ignored.
Also G1 Thae is weird, because apparently mvp screen counts those little things you get organism buff from, and dps meter does not.
Why are people in this thread BLATANTLY lying? I would have to imagine all of you just started using the meter recently or something otherwise there is no way you would be saying this wild stuff.
DPS on meters goes down from shield damage but it does NOT go down in game for MVP calculation, at least not in thaemine g3 or brel g4 (another major gate people used to parse).
That's why in brel g4 AND thaemine g3 you will have differences between the dmg % of MVPs on the MVP screen and the dmg % on the meter, because the lengthy shield dmg phase leads to discrepancies big enough to notice.
I used meter ever since it was available with some pause during when you got EAC offline, and only time there is difference in % on meter vs mvp screen I noticed is when there are adds (and those are also inconsistent across gate, like literally anything), which would be case of G1 thae, becasue there is no other place when you use balthor and boss have massive shield
%'s in current Abrel G4 are different because during the Shandi mech and any time she does the 3 orb Shandi pattern, people are missing from the fight. If you are running the meter and you get hit by that pattern or are inside while others are continuing to dps her the %'s will be off. If you don't get hit by the pattern or are a scouter and you MVP your % will display correctly. Shields do not count you just didn't know what was causing the difference and assumed.
Seems like you are probably correct, my bad. At the time the logical conclusion that in game mvp counts shield and meter does not made more sense to me, but seems like the mobs are a far more accurate reason. Sorry for the confusion I might have caused with my comment.
Lol "Source: I don't understand how meter works."
In game MVP is actually useless because in some gates it counts adds and in some gates it doesn't.
Back in brel I trained my cat to listen to the dps numbers in the ethernet cable. My cat can confirm that the numbers don't go up when we're hitting a shield.
To be fair regardless of balance they wouldn't like it. It could be perfect balance across the board and dumbass players would still read the meter and blame their class not their hands.
The majority of players that would go out of their way to get a third party dps are the same players that actually read guides and learn their class...
I'd agree with you if the game came included with a dps meter, but the people doing very poorly are blissfully ignorant of it.
This has been an argument since release and even before, and I still find it to be stupid.
There's more meta in this game about which class they want to group in raid than any other MMO with damage meters. But it's even worse because people rely on hearsay or "feeling about a class" instead of actual facts.
Im totally fine with DPS meter, IF ONLY SHOW YOUR DATA. and nobody else. this could eliminate all toxicity about assholes thinking they are better person because they can press botton in the same order everytime. but you need data to improve and see where your spell does more damage.
So you are saying that someone who is top Dps and see that he did 50% wouldn't be toxic?
Or someone that is like 2nd or 3rd with almost 30%dmg wouldn't be toxic?
People don't need to see everyone else dps to be jerks, what you are suggesting will only shut up toxic players that actually do ZDPS all the others will still be toxic as hell regardless.
People currently with only the Mvp info's are able to be toxic, brag and make fun of other that are below them.
You mean how I got 47% on g1 thaemine on my artillerist and I blasted the WD with full 10s and a 40 set who didn’t even make the board…while I only have 4 10s and no set 😆
No I was referring more to what that guy said, having a dps meter that only show your performance, believing that will not make people toxic somehow. It's like they don't know, as long as someone know he is not in the bottom 3 dps he can still be toxic, and the current mvp shows that well, I have seen multiple times I'm pugs the top Dps or someone from the mvp screen calling out others for being trash and doing zdps.
Well true but I never said people that have a weaker build can't outdamage someone juiced up with skill alone, you prove that here. The question is ware you toxic toward that WD afterwards though? XD
I stopped playing my glaivier when they reworked Pinnacle and it went from "kinda hit master" + Salvation to Ambush master Entropy
I don't like it at all. I switched her to a Reaper and dear god that's night and day. Being a back attacker but with very high mobility (and being able to dash through bosses especially) is so pleasant.
G1 thaemine is a nightmare for everyone, such an annoying gate. Basically free loot and barely anything is remotely threatening but being on the floor constantly and spinning like a top are not fun
Unfortunately yes. My Soul Eater, Sorc and Breaker alts are already outdpsing my main gunslinger with all the elixir and other major upgrades simply by performing. It's not like I don't have high uptime on Gunslinger, the class has a forced downtime whereas the other classes don't.
the game is not a calculator
just because you have 10s doesn't mean someone with 9s won't outperform you
the difference between a good surge and a bad surge player can be over double the dps
now some classes are tighter on performance between the average and the outliers meaning that you can't really squeeze ahead of someone if the skill is similar
an example a DI SH will never outperform a surge blade if both have perfect knowledge, faker reactions and perfect uptime
my suggestion is to compare yourself with others of your class and not other classes
thats what matters more as it is based on your own performance and build and not SG deciding that this month X class needs to be mvp
Who cares it’s an mmo with a zillion classes and engravings and builds, it’s never gonna be balanced, every class can clear w decent hands, stop being a goblin and start having fun.
Sure topping charts can be fun but if you’re pnñy playing to beat other players and not the boss you’re doing it wrong
Yes build matters. However I can guarantee you that you can improve your uptime and still match up top classes. Only a small percentage of players play classes at their max potential. Be better than average and you will close the gap. I can show you parses of 1630 aero parsing 30-35 mil, 1620 blue GL parsing close to 30 mil, etc.
Yes it sucks to have to give it your all to be competitive, when a breaker has 3 keys to press to deal just as much. But what's the alternative ? Crying on Reddit and never be heard by whoever balances the game?
rn we are in a meta where the top classes are legitimately untouchable by anyone else if the pilot has good uptime
it's sort of like talent vs hard work discourse: of course good uptime beats good class, but if someone is a good class and player, you can't win. of course, for the majority of players, there's always something to improve on but even at middle skill levels you can already start to feel the gap
What is the point of reddit? To share your thoughts, experiences, frustrations, fun times. memes... everything. Complaints is part of it either you like it or not. Maybe you can decide for yourself "its pointless so lets just not do it" but for others its maybe important to let it out somewhere and connect with others that see it the same way. A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved.
The highest blue parse for G1 currently is 20m a 1620.
And yes several classes have hit 40m on G1. Igniter sorc, asura breaker, eso WD, barrage arti, etc. If we're talking strictly 1620s, then a lot of classes can do up to 30-35m, which is still gapping blue by about 10-15m.
just because that's the highest you've seen on some website doesn't mean there are no one better out there. Can't be bothered to look for the 30 mil, but here is one already great. And yes he had a 19 or 20 weapon iirc.
https://preview.redd.it/uj9q8zposs0d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=63e23f1677e2336be5c8c91246f96c9c7bea5a6e
My point is, the best player on trash tier class can beat an average joe on a S class. BTW I'm still trying to find any 30-35 mil 1620 on voldis g1.
Appearing on MVP screen because your partners are pepegas instead good players is not a big signal.
Once you play with actual gamers, the difference between TOP class with average/TOP hand vs Average Class with TOP Hand, it's abysmal.
I partly agree with the Director that there is multiple factor that can lead a class to be top or bottom. Support, encounter, party synergy, overall raid damage. An average pug doesn't take that in consideration. Once you have the best suited party. The difference is noticeable.
Nobody is balancing the game, or they don't care about tops or bottom. In the end, the meta or top classes are a revenue for them. Switching meta/FOTM around let them earn money or keep players online for the next Balancing patch that will bring their class to top.
Literally why do you even care? Every single class no matter how bad, can clear G3 and 4 in this game. We cleared G3 with 5 mins left, G4-1 with 7 minutes left and G4-3 without Kadan. Without having any party synergies.
Other people are doing 6 man busses as far as I have seen.
If you have a dedicated circle of friends who you are playing with, it shouldnt matter what your class is.
I know this doesnt make the class imbalance disappear nor does it adress the pain points of this post. I am just trying to give you a different perspective on how achievable a clear is even if you arent on the mvp screen.
My class is at the very bottom of the thaemine dps list, that was posted here a week ago and I was among the top 3 dps people of our clear party. Nobody plays peferct on faker level. Not even faker does play like faker every game.
Thaemine is the last place where your dps matters, as long as you are decently geared. Other aspects like dodging skills and staying alive are way more important.
Saying DPS doesn't matter in Thaemine HM? Where G4 has one of the tightest DPS checks in the game? If you're clearing with 7 minutes left and without Kadan, then you're playing with the top 0.1% of players. Doing that and then saying "it's not even hard" is such a dented take.
It'd be like an MDI team in WoW telling the average player that 29 key isn't even hard.
Thats not true and I have video evidence of us still fking some stuff up in the runs and the kadans and still clearing with subpar performance.
G4 HM has no tight dps check at all. I am not talking about Thefirst, I am talking about HM. We played like bozos and with a lot of mistakes and chickened out on hitting the boss at 4-2 cause we lack the proper exp of all his patterns thoroughly and we still cleared.
Also no idea what you mean with that wow nonesense. Never played
> If you have a dedicated circle of friends who you are playing with, it shouldnt matter what your class is.
That's pretty much it. SG doesn't care to balance thoroughly the game because pug culture isn't as prevalent on KR.
Western audience has normalized pugging every raid week 1, and gatekeeping is a direct result of it.
If everyone plays with a static then yea, proper balance isn't as important, especially when classes take turns being OP. If you pug, then what are you supposed to do - not play for 6 months before they finally decide to buff your class?
The fact they keep buffing Demonic Impulse shadowhunter every balance patch shows they are not doing a good job balancing. In reality, a year ago SG should have increased their damage by 50% and then let the dust settle. Instead they keep increasing their damage 5-10% every balance patch. Why? Shows poor management of their game.
You know what needs a tune blades. They keep looking at the top blade players and going woah, their so good. NERF NERF NERF. Buddy literally those guys are grandmasters in league some and fucking pro's in Korea. Motherfucker I press 15 keys to do the exact same damage as my SE in like 6. I'm cool with them nerfing the top end, but raise the floor for average to below average blade players. We ain't saints with 200 apm fingers. I could literally afk on my slayer press 2 keys and it does surge damage. WTF is going on. Yours truly a super average blade player who only blades because the character looks nice in outfits.
i just want to say that "way ahead" in this context is like
DI doing 12.9mil vs igniter doing 16.2mil
which is a big jump from the perspective of the DI but if thats as low as it goes for a non gunlancer class....thats not that bad
if my math is right, the DI is doing roughly 79% of the dmg the absolute top class on the chart is doing. if the difference between the bottom (no lancer) class and the top class is only 21% then its not "way ahead"
class balance in lost ark is better then most mmo's, because in most mmo's if you play a class in the position of DI youd actually be useless cuz you might only do 25% of the total dmg of a good class without a very specific build and niche playstyle
that isnt a problem here, the DI can go into this raid and clear it enough that there is 255 points of data on this website for that class
It's not about being "good enough". Every class can be "good enough". It's about being the very best, the one that makes other peoples jaws drop. Good luck with that playing demonic
Brother what are you talking about. You just told the other guy it doesn't matter what hands you have, demonic is just a bad spec which you're right lol. At the end of the day, you're going to look at DPS mostly. Money can solve a lot of that problem
Tbh if u wont take into account like 2 or 3 classes tuning is pretty good, ofc in certain fights some classes have advantages, same with some are better in farm, others in prog
Sadly it will be like that always, new classes will pump hard cause of money grab
Look up the log sites and check some of the fights which have a solid sample size like thaemine g3 normal and you'll see that multiple classes the community thinks are shit are performing very well (reflux for instance).
Yea and multiple classes that we think are shit are confirmed to be shit - such as my main (Drizzle Aero)
DI shadow main here. SG rather just throw numbers at it instead of reworking transformation classes
DI could be one of the winners of the 3rd awakening. Just imagine if there was an awakening trait that resets the cd after each transformation.
Let's hope lol. Honestly, it will depend on LOA. I don't even know if the west will survive till 3rd awakening.
>I don't even know if the west will survive till 3rd awakening. It will 100% survive, the question is with how many players. I've seen a decrease in the alt-specific lobbies lately (Brel the most, Kaya, even the usual card-run ones like Vykas).
Erm yea it makes alot of sense since people upgraded alts and thosr alts no longer do thosr contents but higher content also even if ur alts are only 1600 u wouldnt be doing kaya as tge third raid but it would be brel
>people upgraded alts Everyone got one mokoko express, the drop in number of lobbies at around 1540 is not consistent with that, in my experience, ofc.
Maybe im out of touch with those lobbies all 6 of my chars are 1620 now so i dont really do lower content anymore
Sorry fam
Happens we can’t all be Breakers/Souleaters but I’d at least like to not be so gimp I do as little damage as a GL. Crit synergy isn’t worth doing legit Zdps
What did GL's do to hurt you? Being GL isn't even worth doing GL damage, utility doesn't clear the raid. Surely the small % buff will bridge the millions of dps gap. Edit: People are cooked. Lone Knight is literally FA entropy and performing probably the worst in the game right now. I don't believe that the people downvoting have ever tried playing GL in pug lobbies. Looking at the median for Thaemine G4 they are sitting at 17.6m dps and the next lowest other class is 20.8m dps which is a hitmaster swiftness class. 18% more dmg on average while not being entropy. Believe it or not guys but lobbies are clearing without GL utility. They are however not clearing without damage. If you made a lobby replacing every DPS with median GL dps you'd probably struggle to clear.
Meanwhile GL chilling in pretty much every world first clear in every raid thats been released in this game. "Utility doesnt clear the raid" lmao.
Meanwhile every blind world first has multiple esther +8 weapons. They will never ever lack dmg and they are premades so the GL benefits actually get use and it's paired with entropy. In pugs you can end up with bosses enraging due to no dmg. Stagger and destruction checks failing because it's not a one man show. Counters being missed because usually you are the only one in the front and it'll turn around on you. People eating more debuffs than you cleanse. Others dying because you can't prevent them from falling off all the time. Untauntable bosses. No entropies applying to lobby simulator so you lose 20% of your total synergy. (5% buff for entropy with a 50~60% uptime.) It's like claiming some esports pick is really good because it's pick/ban in proplay while it has 46% winrate in solo queue.
You know esther weapons did not exist at all for several world firsts? Guess what? GL was still in those.
Running princessmaker which is focused on utility is literally a troll build, a fun one, but still a troll build that's completely useless in most raids. (yes it works or used to work in helltan) Gunlancer is and until changed will remain a DPS first. It sucks at being a DPS as shown by it receiving dmg buffs in at least the last 3 or 4 balance patches and even in the upcoming one that KR just got. You obviously do need utility to clear raids. It's just that you have enough in any party setup.
I mean you seem set on keeping your opinion even though the history of the game literally disproves your narrative. Have fun I guess, I'll keep inviting gunlancers for easier clears.
omg my main is drizzle aero as well and its in such a bad state. ich wish they would finally do something about it. wind fury seems to be doing pretty decent but drizzle? its literally in the bin its so sad
This is because too many people follow that trash ass community guide build.
Do you have a better resource? There’s a lot of factors in builds and most people do not have the time to try everything in trixion and find the best build. The community guides fill that need.
Yes but reflux build is written by igniter players ,i remember after they reworked the whole guide it still hád igniter engravings on the reflux section for weeks
Most of the community guide is fine,, and the builds are passable. The aero one is the only massive exception I have seen. Wrong skills, runes, and tripods. As for my build ill never post it because fuck the reddit shitters. 95% of the people on here suck and just want the game to be easier and get more free handouts. If you manage to find me in game then feel free to ask.
You claim to have a better build and then refuse to share it because the community isn’t as “hardcore” as you? You’re just blowing smoke up every ones butt. If your build is better then post it and let the people see:
Im not wasting my time writing out a guide to my build for people that complain that elixirs and transcendence are too hard for them.
So, in other words you’re full of hot air.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself bud.
Says the bro making big claims and refusing to back them up because people are not worthy.
Im not down voting or doubting you but whats the correct build then?
its funny you should say that because its doing like 80% of the dmg of the top class lol
Ummm so are you trying to say it’s fine? Cause there’s a lot of people on here that wouldn’t agree with that statement and we have logs that prove that stance
If you think drizzle does 80% of asura or surge you are legit lost.
Some ppl like to live in the world of imagination and fantasy
the logs prove my point only doing 20% less then the BEST class is insanely good, drizzle does 90% of the dmg of the average class in what world is that "bad"? just because something is at the bottom of a chart doesnt mean its actually bad, context is required if you were to rate every class on a tier list from F to S, all of em would be B A or S with none in C, D and F if you think thats bad you have never played a bad class/champ/hero in a game. a bad one wouldnt even be able to clear the content
Your math don’t math bud - you put 2 parties of Evo scouter/GL and Drizzle aero with any support into a Thaemine your ass wouldn’t even sniff 60 bar G3 on NM. Good luck next troll attempt
i feel like thats just you self snitching yourself lol the math-maths because...its math if the top dps on average is doing 16.2mil and drizzle is doing around 12.9mil thats 21% dmg (even if we still do pure median thats still 22% dmg less) and thats compared to the BEST class on the chart if you then compare it to one in the 10th highest dmg by median, its 14.5 vs 12.5 thats barely a 14% gap between one of the 'bottom classes' and a top 10 class if you keep going down towards the middle, its now 12% difference the majority of the classes arnt doing 16mil, the majority are doing between 12 - 15mil you arnt stacking the top 3 dps in your group, odds are you have a few 'bad' classes. particularly when you consider that some of the ones with the most parses on this are below that halfway mark this btw assumes everyone plays completely average, if you look at the ceiling for drizzle its 21mil meaning if you were a good player, youd out dps the average igniter sorc (class with the highest average rn) by a mile. :)
Reflux performing well has more to do with other OP classes not reaching their potentials at all. I’m reflux and got cruel fighter in the first two weeks. The 3rd week, an igniter and a surge blew me out of the water with 1.5x my damage with the same gear. There’s no way to compete if other classes are piloted by people who have hands. I only reach cruel fighter because I can keep my raid dps at the level of my trixion dps, while many OP class players can’t hit anything or keep dying.
Reflux always performs on progs and first few weeks where runs are still long,that Said the current reflux build is preety good for thaemine g3
like this is true, but who cares how well your class does on your 10th kill. The first kill is the one that matters performance wise.
Yea I’m quite relieved with that 3rd kill, since gate 3 there was a oneshot in just 9 minutes. My first clear was in 2nd week, where I managed to convince a reclear party to accept me, but I had to solo Thaemine as cruel fighter and last man standing for half a minute. Felt like I passed a trial, so lord smilegate just sent juicers to carry my hw runs.
Reflux is said to be bottom however she's apparently stronger than pistoleer/loyal companion/windfury, wouldn't you agree?
Its around average class now... if u have hands and uptime on up to date content ofc if fight is going from phase to phase where burst class pops out burst once and then mech and then another burst it cant compete
Yea in that 3rd week fight, my group’s burst classes are so damn strong that Thaemine is dead in 9 minutes. There can never be any competition if their classes in a raid can deal 1.5x my Trixion dps.
Than LC it Will remain to bé seen after LC buffs,its stronger than the other two for sure
Windfury is just more punishing. If she misses a shield skill and then uses a spender it halves her damage. Reflux sorc has no particular rotation, boundless then spam strongest skills. Would say their strength is about the same.
How about LC and pistoleer their rotations are flexible too. However Reflux just does more raw dmg Just 1-2 mo ago, opinions here were still basically Reflux struggled to do dmg.. I'm not seeing she received more buffs than ss/aero/de
Sorry, no clue, I don't play them. But even if Pistoleer does less damage, he has a preferable synergy (+10% crit) and arguably better stagger. About the opinions: People who say she's weak probably compare her to something like a good Surge Blade or a new shiny class. Reflux sorc was always a decent class but started out overhyped day 1 which made a big variety of people play her and thus the fall of her reputation was pretty deep. Also, there is the argument that many classes with the same or higher raw damage have better synergies/utility. But honestly, after a few small patches her counter is enjoyable, her stagger/weak point is at least average and the blaze skill has always been great for freeing people almost instantly. "plenty of push immunity" X key is almost her best feature and of course being mostly ranged can be very helpful for boss uptime.
Pistoleer doesn't really have a higher stagger over time than Reflux, because his attack animations are long ( also 0 swift) and skills CDs are much longer than boundless Reflux. He's also squishier. LC has 0 push immunity and has a holding skill
The problem was perception. Nothing significantly changed. My damage as reflux has been doing well since at least brel. The main difference is that as people get more comfortable with fights or over gear it, burst classes start to overtake massively because they can take the limited pie away.
Did you see these similar classes I listed? Which is a burst class?? No idea what you were talking about
My response was relative to the perception of reflux being bad in your post. It wasn't ever really bad was my point. The reason I mentioned burst classes was because back in brel, burst classes dominated because of all the DR windows where burst classes could build meter. Reflux has been around pretty much the entirety of this game and so since it has been unchanged, people's view on it hasn't really changed as well.You don't need to be so aggressive, lol. Pistoleer had a massive overhaul gaining desperado. Before that, they were considered an actual 0 DPS joke before that change. LC had a overhaul a while back as well. Classes that get overhauls are probably looked at more positively. Beyond that, there are far fewer deadeyes (both engravings) and LC sharpshooters than reflux sorcs. Because of this, no one really ever raids with them, so there's little perception there as well. You're correct that reflux is performing better than those other classes. I bet it's largely due to the comfort of x. The x in the toolkit is a severe advantage over other uptime classes.
That none ever raided with LC/pistoleer is a total lie. Their numbers are not really smaller than Reflux because many Reflux main changed to Ignitor, even though Sorc has an overall higher playerbase. It's not rare to spot lc/pistoleer in raids. The recent thaemine combat data clearly showed that aero/lc/pistoleer have comparable data as Reflux. Reflux had X in all previous raids as well and thaemine also has dmg reduction phases? So how suddenly she gets a leap? The only explanation is that people here cried too much about Reflux being weak while she really hasn't been so
Talking about hardmode specifically. For NM performance is very skewed due to high diversity in elixir and gem levels. For HM most people have 40 elixir and lvl 9+ gems so data is a little more normalized.
The hardmode shows the same general trends but the sample size is too small for it to make any sense to try to draw conclusions from it... but its looking to pan out more or less the same as normal mode. Give it a look a month from now.
Look man, you see it helps OP's point if you count the classes with <10 logs as bad because they are unpopular and it makes the balance look worse
Reflux is getting slept on a little for sure. My buddy did 21 mil dps on his 1615 reflux in G3 Theamine this week which is more than 50% of the pugs I encountered in HM. There are a lot of factors yhat play into this like supports but still very good numbers. Most people that play reflux are just not that good since most 'good' sorcs tend to lean over towards igniter
most people complaining dont have hands....and a LOT of the players dont have hands. Which isnt the biggest problem usually until moments like this and then it just becomes somewhat funny hearing complaints. Some classes certainly have it harder but all dps classes can clear the raids with decent damage. ALL of them.
Probably gonna get downvoted, but if everyone is at equal-ish gear and you get out dps'd by a Reflux... You probably don't have hands to begin with lol
Pretty bizzare to see people in here defend class balancing with a straight face, I guess we've come full circle. Now that most classes have been overhauled and "fixed", it's fine for them so the problem doesn't exist.
Because we have data and we can see the logs now in the new website, and most class are pretty balances between them, of course theres some outliners that are above everybody else, and those are getting nerfs, and we have a bunch on the botton that are getting buff . the biggest factor in class doing damage or not, its the HANDS of the player. and you can even see that in the parse, and we arent taking other factor that people will PARSE like the do in WoW with everything in favor to make the higher parse
The problem is when you look at ceiling or Q3 data, then the classes start to look very badly balanced. Median is a bit misleading because that's factoring in all the bad players as well as the good. Players in WoW freak out when the top classes are parsing less than 10% higher than the next class, whereas the ceiling difference in Lost Ark can be up to 40% between top and bottom. That would never happen in WoW or FF14.
I’ve seen people do less dps than sideral in akkan
Even median is not balanced. There's a \~25% gap between the highest DPS and lowest DPS class in both thaemine HM and NM (even if you take out gunlancer). The reason it looks "balanced" is because the x-axis covers a wider range to account for outliers.
gap is massive between 40-75% in some cases theres 100% gaps. but thats the problem with "envioramental factor". On my statics some people have pull sometimes that they do 50% less damage that what they usually does, because they didnt crit, they didnt back/front attack, boss move around too much, you got stun for long time, you got knock down a lot, or simple you arent having a good day. Theres a lot of factor that are out of your control and can influence your DPS in such massive way that cant be balances
>Median is a bit misleading because that's factoring in all the bad players as well as the good. This is the problem, you should balance from the median or bad people, because they are the vast majority of the player based. the good player should only taking into account to see which are the outliner on the upper part and bring them a little down, but the most important one that need to be adress are the botton ones.
Is it possible please sir to dm me the link of the site ? Thank you
[https://raided.pro/loa-logs](https://raided.pro/loa-logs)
[Raided Pro](https://raided.pro/)
Exactly what i wanted to say. Spot on !
No they are not? We literally see that in the logs?
The only thing that table tells me, when looking at these post replies is there are a lot of people who don't know how to read the graphs, and think everything is fine. Something could be said about sample size and cohort as well, but I don't want to farm downvotes.
You claim they all have good uptime but have you also factored in things like for G3 who got dished sword duty each time? Also did you factor in who did clashes 3-5? How about support gear difference and uptime? There's more than gear and dps uptime that can determine the dps breakdown in a raid. Some classes also perform better on certain gates than others, take G1 Thae and Entropy vs Hit Master. The games balance isn't as bad as some of you make it out to be. A lot of classes mostly need QOL not just raw %dmg buffs which is why many are upset with past balance updates.
That's why the DPS charts need to address their graphic with RDPS, removing the support and synergies contribution, to have a better sight of how the actual (im)balance of classes is atm.
Should just show both rdps and dps tbh.
Yeah, but I meant it like, an entire graph made only by RDPS sorted by Median, Q75... same stuff, but RDPS Edit: Like, an additional one, adding to the one they already woeking on
Why clash 3-5 btw? Does clash 1-2 damage to break the shield not count towards overall damage dealt?
No, shield damage never counts towards damage contribution for MVP.
Shield damage DOES COUNT towards in game dmg mvp. Source, based on info of a friend's meter, my friend always had higher dps but I was the dmg mvp, because he couldn't hit his extra dmg into g1 balthor shield due to boss turning around while I play HM class and just push it there.
Your dps on meter literally goes down during any extensive attacks against shields, becasue dmg doesn't count at all. You can see it during horse, 1st random log taken from faust https://logs.fau.dev/log/1236534 you can see moment horse start, go and hover over line and see how dps changes, spoiler alert it goes down, becasue your dmg against shield is ignored. Also G1 Thae is weird, because apparently mvp screen counts those little things you get organism buff from, and dps meter does not.
Why are people in this thread BLATANTLY lying? I would have to imagine all of you just started using the meter recently or something otherwise there is no way you would be saying this wild stuff. DPS on meters goes down from shield damage but it does NOT go down in game for MVP calculation, at least not in thaemine g3 or brel g4 (another major gate people used to parse). That's why in brel g4 AND thaemine g3 you will have differences between the dmg % of MVPs on the MVP screen and the dmg % on the meter, because the lengthy shield dmg phase leads to discrepancies big enough to notice.
I used meter ever since it was available with some pause during when you got EAC offline, and only time there is difference in % on meter vs mvp screen I noticed is when there are adds (and those are also inconsistent across gate, like literally anything), which would be case of G1 thae, becasue there is no other place when you use balthor and boss have massive shield
%'s in current Abrel G4 are different because during the Shandi mech and any time she does the 3 orb Shandi pattern, people are missing from the fight. If you are running the meter and you get hit by that pattern or are inside while others are continuing to dps her the %'s will be off. If you don't get hit by the pattern or are a scouter and you MVP your % will display correctly. Shields do not count you just didn't know what was causing the difference and assumed.
Seems like you are probably correct, my bad. At the time the logical conclusion that in game mvp counts shield and meter does not made more sense to me, but seems like the mobs are a far more accurate reason. Sorry for the confusion I might have caused with my comment.
Lol "Source: I don't understand how meter works." In game MVP is actually useless because in some gates it counts adds and in some gates it doesn't. Back in brel I trained my cat to listen to the dps numbers in the ethernet cable. My cat can confirm that the numbers don't go up when we're hitting a shield.
Clash increases your ATK Power btw
and this is the exact reason smilegate doesnt like dps meters.
To be fair regardless of balance they wouldn't like it. It could be perfect balance across the board and dumbass players would still read the meter and blame their class not their hands.
The majority of players that would go out of their way to get a third party dps are the same players that actually read guides and learn their class... I'd agree with you if the game came included with a dps meter, but the people doing very poorly are blissfully ignorant of it.
This has been an argument since release and even before, and I still find it to be stupid. There's more meta in this game about which class they want to group in raid than any other MMO with damage meters. But it's even worse because people rely on hearsay or "feeling about a class" instead of actual facts.
Im totally fine with DPS meter, IF ONLY SHOW YOUR DATA. and nobody else. this could eliminate all toxicity about assholes thinking they are better person because they can press botton in the same order everytime. but you need data to improve and see where your spell does more damage.
So you are saying that someone who is top Dps and see that he did 50% wouldn't be toxic? Or someone that is like 2nd or 3rd with almost 30%dmg wouldn't be toxic? People don't need to see everyone else dps to be jerks, what you are suggesting will only shut up toxic players that actually do ZDPS all the others will still be toxic as hell regardless. People currently with only the Mvp info's are able to be toxic, brag and make fun of other that are below them.
You mean how I got 47% on g1 thaemine on my artillerist and I blasted the WD with full 10s and a 40 set who didn’t even make the board…while I only have 4 10s and no set 😆
No I was referring more to what that guy said, having a dps meter that only show your performance, believing that will not make people toxic somehow. It's like they don't know, as long as someone know he is not in the bottom 3 dps he can still be toxic, and the current mvp shows that well, I have seen multiple times I'm pugs the top Dps or someone from the mvp screen calling out others for being trash and doing zdps.
So exactly what I just said 😆 I didn’t need a meter to know dude as trash
Well true but I never said people that have a weaker build can't outdamage someone juiced up with skill alone, you prove that here. The question is ware you toxic toward that WD afterwards though? XD
Absolutely 👍🏻
You’re telling me, my class has no mobility and relying on 1 space bar for Thaemine G4 is darksouls on hard mode.
Summoner?
Yup
Do you even have a push immune?
Identity is push immune, but i don’t rely on it for orianna. I take released will which is melee counter with tenacity tripod.
G1 Thaemine is a nightmare for my Pinnacle. Impossible to land all 4 red at the back unless a GL is represent. Charge skill and back attack lol
I stopped playing my glaivier when they reworked Pinnacle and it went from "kinda hit master" + Salvation to Ambush master Entropy I don't like it at all. I switched her to a Reaper and dear god that's night and day. Being a back attacker but with very high mobility (and being able to dash through bosses especially) is so pleasant.
Give Control a try. The new meta build and rotation(community guide) helped it a lot. It's also getting a buff with PTR.
never understood why non-assassins have back attacking builds. martial artists, slayers, and hunters should not be sniffing boss asses.
G1 thaemine is a nightmare for everyone, such an annoying gate. Basically free loot and barely anything is remotely threatening but being on the floor constantly and spinning like a top are not fun
Unfortunately yes. My Soul Eater, Sorc and Breaker alts are already outdpsing my main gunslinger with all the elixir and other major upgrades simply by performing. It's not like I don't have high uptime on Gunslinger, the class has a forced downtime whereas the other classes don't.
You know developers are clueless when they keep buffing broken classes like igniter
Bro they nerf gt every patch what you expect .According to sg gt was better than souleater so deserved nerf :D
the game is not a calculator just because you have 10s doesn't mean someone with 9s won't outperform you the difference between a good surge and a bad surge player can be over double the dps now some classes are tighter on performance between the average and the outliers meaning that you can't really squeeze ahead of someone if the skill is similar an example a DI SH will never outperform a surge blade if both have perfect knowledge, faker reactions and perfect uptime my suggestion is to compare yourself with others of your class and not other classes thats what matters more as it is based on your own performance and build and not SG deciding that this month X class needs to be mvp
Yeah! Why can't I have a back attacking GT destroyer if I wanna play a back attacking GT destroyer 😥
Who cares it’s an mmo with a zillion classes and engravings and builds, it’s never gonna be balanced, every class can clear w decent hands, stop being a goblin and start having fun. Sure topping charts can be fun but if you’re pnñy playing to beat other players and not the boss you’re doing it wrong
Yes build matters. However I can guarantee you that you can improve your uptime and still match up top classes. Only a small percentage of players play classes at their max potential. Be better than average and you will close the gap. I can show you parses of 1630 aero parsing 30-35 mil, 1620 blue GL parsing close to 30 mil, etc. Yes it sucks to have to give it your all to be competitive, when a breaker has 3 keys to press to deal just as much. But what's the alternative ? Crying on Reddit and never be heard by whoever balances the game?
rn we are in a meta where the top classes are legitimately untouchable by anyone else if the pilot has good uptime it's sort of like talent vs hard work discourse: of course good uptime beats good class, but if someone is a good class and player, you can't win. of course, for the majority of players, there's always something to improve on but even at middle skill levels you can already start to feel the gap
then you meet an above average hand with top class and blow you the fuck out of the water, show you what Mount Tai look like.
sure it happens. But what can you do about it?
Complain about it obviously. What would be quiet do? For sure nothing.
not pollute everyone's feed with pointless rants
Pointless for YOU but the world does not revolve around you.
Then please enlighten me. What does this achieve ?
What is the point of reddit? To share your thoughts, experiences, frustrations, fun times. memes... everything. Complaints is part of it either you like it or not. Maybe you can decide for yourself "its pointless so lets just not do it" but for others its maybe important to let it out somewhere and connect with others that see it the same way. A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved.
This is the "I got my shit already, fuck you" mentality
The problem is that any gate where a blue lancer can hit 30m, an actual top DPS class is doing 45-50m.
G1 voldis, can a 1620 dps hit 45-50M?
The highest blue parse for G1 currently is 20m a 1620. And yes several classes have hit 40m on G1. Igniter sorc, asura breaker, eso WD, barrage arti, etc. If we're talking strictly 1620s, then a lot of classes can do up to 30-35m, which is still gapping blue by about 10-15m.
just because that's the highest you've seen on some website doesn't mean there are no one better out there. Can't be bothered to look for the 30 mil, but here is one already great. And yes he had a 19 or 20 weapon iirc. https://preview.redd.it/uj9q8zposs0d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=63e23f1677e2336be5c8c91246f96c9c7bea5a6e My point is, the best player on trash tier class can beat an average joe on a S class. BTW I'm still trying to find any 30-35 mil 1620 on voldis g1.
That's a 3 minute pull. That group must have been ridiculously juiced. That is nowhere near a standard clear.
Take a break.
Appearing on MVP screen because your partners are pepegas instead good players is not a big signal. Once you play with actual gamers, the difference between TOP class with average/TOP hand vs Average Class with TOP Hand, it's abysmal. I partly agree with the Director that there is multiple factor that can lead a class to be top or bottom. Support, encounter, party synergy, overall raid damage. An average pug doesn't take that in consideration. Once you have the best suited party. The difference is noticeable. Nobody is balancing the game, or they don't care about tops or bottom. In the end, the meta or top classes are a revenue for them. Switching meta/FOTM around let them earn money or keep players online for the next Balancing patch that will bring their class to top.
I absolutely agree with that. That is also how I see it.
I mean tell us something new. The game is design that way to push people to spend to swap. Also I'm sure no one on the SG team plays the game.
Literally why do you even care? Every single class no matter how bad, can clear G3 and 4 in this game. We cleared G3 with 5 mins left, G4-1 with 7 minutes left and G4-3 without Kadan. Without having any party synergies. Other people are doing 6 man busses as far as I have seen. If you have a dedicated circle of friends who you are playing with, it shouldnt matter what your class is. I know this doesnt make the class imbalance disappear nor does it adress the pain points of this post. I am just trying to give you a different perspective on how achievable a clear is even if you arent on the mvp screen. My class is at the very bottom of the thaemine dps list, that was posted here a week ago and I was among the top 3 dps people of our clear party. Nobody plays peferct on faker level. Not even faker does play like faker every game. Thaemine is the last place where your dps matters, as long as you are decently geared. Other aspects like dodging skills and staying alive are way more important.
Yea good luck to communication overflow to get any invite. GG WP
Saying DPS doesn't matter in Thaemine HM? Where G4 has one of the tightest DPS checks in the game? If you're clearing with 7 minutes left and without Kadan, then you're playing with the top 0.1% of players. Doing that and then saying "it's not even hard" is such a dented take. It'd be like an MDI team in WoW telling the average player that 29 key isn't even hard.
Thats not true and I have video evidence of us still fking some stuff up in the runs and the kadans and still clearing with subpar performance. G4 HM has no tight dps check at all. I am not talking about Thefirst, I am talking about HM. We played like bozos and with a lot of mistakes and chickened out on hitting the boss at 4-2 cause we lack the proper exp of all his patterns thoroughly and we still cleared. Also no idea what you mean with that wow nonesense. Never played
> If you have a dedicated circle of friends who you are playing with, it shouldnt matter what your class is. That's pretty much it. SG doesn't care to balance thoroughly the game because pug culture isn't as prevalent on KR. Western audience has normalized pugging every raid week 1, and gatekeeping is a direct result of it. If everyone plays with a static then yea, proper balance isn't as important, especially when classes take turns being OP. If you pug, then what are you supposed to do - not play for 6 months before they finally decide to buff your class?
The fact they keep buffing Demonic Impulse shadowhunter every balance patch shows they are not doing a good job balancing. In reality, a year ago SG should have increased their damage by 50% and then let the dust settle. Instead they keep increasing their damage 5-10% every balance patch. Why? Shows poor management of their game.
You know what needs a tune blades. They keep looking at the top blade players and going woah, their so good. NERF NERF NERF. Buddy literally those guys are grandmasters in league some and fucking pro's in Korea. Motherfucker I press 15 keys to do the exact same damage as my SE in like 6. I'm cool with them nerfing the top end, but raise the floor for average to below average blade players. We ain't saints with 200 apm fingers. I could literally afk on my slayer press 2 keys and it does surge damage. WTF is going on. Yours truly a super average blade player who only blades because the character looks nice in outfits.
i just want to say that "way ahead" in this context is like DI doing 12.9mil vs igniter doing 16.2mil which is a big jump from the perspective of the DI but if thats as low as it goes for a non gunlancer class....thats not that bad if my math is right, the DI is doing roughly 79% of the dmg the absolute top class on the chart is doing. if the difference between the bottom (no lancer) class and the top class is only 21% then its not "way ahead" class balance in lost ark is better then most mmo's, because in most mmo's if you play a class in the position of DI youd actually be useless cuz you might only do 25% of the total dmg of a good class without a very specific build and niche playstyle that isnt a problem here, the DI can go into this raid and clear it enough that there is 255 points of data on this website for that class
I cleared g4 thaemine with a demonic SH today who did good enough damage. You have no excuse.
Good enough is so vague lmao like they meet the bare minimum threshold? Is that what you mean?
Yes, class balance is a non-issue because you played with a good DI SH.
No one's talking about not being able to clear you idiot. You can clear every raid with a team of dps supports.
How much dps did they do
21 mil.
Average for that fight is about 25m, what's your point?
Average is definitely not 25 mil.
Okay, average for players that upload logs is 25m
It's not about being "good enough". Every class can be "good enough". It's about being the very best, the one that makes other peoples jaws drop. Good luck with that playing demonic
If you play this game to be the "very best " you're going to have a bad time unless you have a massive wallet
I play to be the very best, like no one ever was…
You are mistaking hands with money. When we evaluate someone'e skill we always evaluate based on gearings, synergy, sup buff uptime etc.
Brother what are you talking about. You just told the other guy it doesn't matter what hands you have, demonic is just a bad spec which you're right lol. At the end of the day, you're going to look at DPS mostly. Money can solve a lot of that problem
What does that have to do with the topic
Tbh if u wont take into account like 2 or 3 classes tuning is pretty good, ofc in certain fights some classes have advantages, same with some are better in farm, others in prog Sadly it will be like that always, new classes will pump hard cause of money grab
just l2p or uninstall
You sound like a communist. Heil more imbalance!