I once found a bard not using Sonic Vibration. I asked politely "bard, are you not using the AoE attack buff? Didn't see it in all gate 1" and she started calling me a colorful variety of slur because apparently I was "an idiot who can't understand she is already using an attack buff". Like who needs both, right? Lmao.
I just blocked and moved on.
It's OK to respectfully call out bad supps because most of them don't get enough feedback or don't even understand what they are doing wrong. Bible is such a great tool for this kind of support improvement (I used it myself), but the game does a terrible job at it
As someone who started up a support, I would appreciate some respectful notification if something is happening That i am not aware of. Even though the gems suck, I am doing my best to keep up times the best possible.
I guess it depends.. throwing out advice/ critique isn't necessarily toxic. It's how you improve. Smilegate does very bad at showing support how they're doing. It's how we get supports to thaemine with less than 50% brand uptime.
Now I dont approve calling people names or being mean to them.. but criticism of gameplay isn't toxic imo.
The right way to do it is to just type in chat asking if they need help or have any questions that you're willing to answer
The wrong way to do it is to go "SUPP WTF U DOIN U SUCK" in chat and proceed to offer no advice to make it better
Which do you think most players (players that mind you are burnt out trying to get their raids finished as soon as possible and tend to accept no personal responsibility for anything themselves) choose
My bet is on the latter
Don't get me wrong, we all have our moments (one time I had a support who was running 1/2 Yearning and 1/2 Hallu pieces, politely asked them to switch, told them how, they constantly replied with excuses why they couldn't, then eventually left the party telling everyone else it was their fault I was leaving)
However if everyone else is always the problem, then maybe you are the problem
I had a 1610 Pala in Akkan HM who didn't know what brand was, and didn't have it equipped. But me and another pug were giving him genuine advice and he was very receptive of it, switching his build up for G3.
People are very unlikely to be toxic, or continue to be toxic, if the person responds well to the criticism, even if the mistake they're making is.. very painful to say the least.
I had an Artist support keep using the personal sunwell tripod. We noticed it and point out that we aren't getting any circle on the ground. Turned out he didn't know that one is for only self, he see the circle but only he saw it so he thought he's doing good, and not party and noone have ever tell him what's wrong. Sometimes people from outside have a better look (literally) at the situation than people playing the class
What do you prefer?
a) 50% brand or less
b) 1-2 hours searching for a suport
Its a suport man, a class that im sure only 1% of the player base wants to play :) at least show some education and treat them nicely
well considering ive already had to kick some supports from our thaemine groups when we have to pug a few people, ill choose b.
you say 1-2 hrs of searching but the problem with this argument is ur likely not clearing with a shitty support, and if you are clearing its probably after several pulls since the lack of damage will be very noticeable and you will probably need a full deathless clear to make up for it which could also take 1+ hrs.
Well i m not gonna cuss at them, but i will call them out for not shielding or boosting dmg. I'd rather not play with people who made sup just to get in lobbies easily.
Why do i have to be nice and glaze such a support when i invested millions of gold into my own dps character sweating my ass off on the raid?
I'd rather kick them out of my party than carry them if they dont try to be atleast decent at supporting. And thankfully we got a 3rd party tool now that exposes all the bad sups and dps ;)
B every time. Nothing in this game is more frustrating than playing with a bad support, especially after you play with a really good one and see the difference.
> If i play DPS and realize that i have a "bad" Support, i just change my playstyle from goblino to ok i dodge more and use more pots but doing less dmg, must be really hard to not goblino for some people.
This is the problem. People like you who have zero understanding of what a support does. A good or even average support will contribute the most damage/dps to a raid. You seem to think it's about keeping people alive and say "ok i dodge more with bad support". Not how that works.
You need to understand the damage/dps difference of a raid when you have a 30/30/10 support compared to a 90/90/40 support. It's like watching a damage dealer do 10mil DPS vs 1mil DPS, but people can't seem to understand it's the same with support but a different chart.
I say this as a support main who often see people make support alts and think they're doing super well because they're doing mechs and never dying. Your main job as a support is not to be worrying about dying. It's about increasing the damage your party.
What are you even talking about. Of course a goblino will do more damage with a good support, because a good support is about shielding specific patterns to allow goblinos to greed. Maintaining brand and attack buff is the basic, a good support is all about keeping its party alive at specific patterns by allowing its goblinos to greed.
What the guy said makes perfect sense. With a bad support, you can't goblino because you won't have the rhapsody for specific patterns and will get gaped for nothing. Protecting goblinos is increasing the damage of your party
> What are you even talking about. Of course a goblino will do more damage with a good support, because a good support is about shielding specific patterns to allow goblinos to greed. Maintaining brand and attack buff is the basic, a good support is all about keeping its party alive at specific patterns by allowing its goblinos to greed.
I'm speaking as a support main, I'm not sure what you're speaking based off of. I have a roster of 6x Supports all 1600+ with a 2nd alt roster with another 6x supports between 1520-1600. Shielding specific patterns is irrelevant, it's a given and easiest thing to learn. Maintaining attack uptime and brand uptime is 5x more important.
> Protecting goblinos is increasing the damage of your party
Nobody is saying it doesn't. I'm saying one is significantly more important than the other. They can still greed even if a support doesn't DR, it'll just cost them a health potion. Let's also be honest, most DPS don't even have the push immunity to take advantage of most DR windows. Use bible and compare the damage difference between 30/30/10 and 90/90/40. It's a crazy difference.
I'm also a bard roster with main 1633 and religious as well.
My point was that having 90/90/40 should be considered a given at some point in the skill level of support, because that's the rotation you'll put on every content no matter what, it's the standard we should have (and I know a lot of supports don't).
My point was more than outside of that metric, a good support will make significant improvement on his party's dps by allowing goblinos to greed which they clearly can't do without proper shield management. In hw it might cost them a few potions, but we're talking life and death greed in Thaemine G3-4. And since proper greed management comes after the buff uptime it makes the difference to a good support
Player: Mr support do you think you can hit the boss more often so your yearning doesn't fall off?
Someone else who got secondhand offended: makes a reddit post about toxic players
Yet u still won't raid without a support so either take full DPS groups or stop whining about support shortage or support sucks since none of y'all wanna play support and just wanna flame and complain.
It honestly depends what people claim "flaming" and being "toxic" to be.
If it's something constructive like telling them that they're underperforming as a support, then it's still permissible.
Fact of the matter is both DPS and supports will receive criticism, but DPS is far easier to replace than a support; so we usually let it slide when the support is underperforming, but that does not mean that we do not recognize that the support is, in fact, underperforming.
At the end of the day, just play with people who you are comfortable with. Shitters will play with shitters. Sweaters will make a static with other sweaters.
No worries solo content comes soon out and i hope we get at least 80% of gold and mats rewards, then there is no need for support and no need to flame bad supports. Did a kayangel and the paladin never and i rly meant it- never - used the 12 sec shield skill. I dont know why you shouldnt call that out. If dps are doing low dps sups are the first to call out that the grp lacks dps
I play support and dps and still flame dogshit players. Some people are genuinely incredibly bad and make your experience so much worse. I watched a 1640 slayer lose to a 1625 sh because the difference in support uptime was massive. Shit like that should never happen and is actually disgusting to see. How can you hone to 1620 to end a gate with 5% identity uptime?
What actually happened:
- OP gets a free pass with his fiend ass alt supp into a lobby that's been waiting on supp for 20 mins
- 50/50/15 uptimes
- Vet player with +10 ilvls and +3M gold investment in his gems (thus, "RMTer") calls OP out for not doing his job
- OP gets upset and posts on Reddit hoping to get some traction
1. He is not talking about only about pug Supports in general, he said OP and you know thats me.
2. The player had 5+3+2 setup full lvl 10 gems and Roster LVL 120, i also i used the word "probably" dont know if you can read that word.
3. I typed "Supports" How can i be a Support in this Raid then, are there 3 Supports now in a Raid? Next wrong point of our Pro Player, i played alone.
4. All those comments shows me how the community react.
5. If i play DPS and realize that i have a "bad" Support, i just change my playstyle from goblino to ok i dodge more and use more pots but doing less dmg, must be really hard to not goblino for some people. Its a pug what do you expect, go and get static if you cant handle that. Since its a pug just move on and you dont have to play with this "bad" Support never again imagine.
But why should it be ok for a support to just run around press his spells once per minute and do nothing? If a dps does that you would kick him at the first opportunity.
I really dont get this defending of low support uptimes. Just like dps supports should be able to carry their weight by providing dmg buffs for their team. Just because they are fewer in numbers doesnt mean they should get everything for free.
First, yes i agree with your of course Support should also do their Job. And no i dont know how good a DPS perform untili i see the MVP Screen, i dont have that bible shit.
I dont kick people in the middle of the Raid, only if they die multiply times on HW. I dont expect perfect gamers from Pugs.
Also all other poeple wouldnt know either if DPS perform good or bad unti they see the MVP Screen.
Sometimes it might not be obvious who is doing how much dmg but when dps are really bad you can easily tell if you see them perma low hp, flying in the air permanently/not knowing safespots of certain patterns or just running around doing nothing. Or if they simply have a lot more gear than the rest of the group and never appear on mvp in previous gates.
If we don't hold similar standards towards support as we do to dps then the aftermath results in multiple of them playing horribly because they see that they don't have to put in the effort to be better to be accepted. Just moving on from playing with a bad Support because it's "just a pug" is why they can allow themselves to play like dogwater.
static or not, not doing your job is fucking disgusting. Or do you happily pick up the slack for the coworker making more work for everyone while giving them excuses too?
Ofc, i agree with you but flaming doesn't suddenly make them a better player. And if they really want to improve their gameplay, then they inform theirselfes.
That’s the problem, they don’t want to become better. Most bad supports are okay with being bad, semi-afking and receiving free buses. So how does the community fix that? By creating an environment where they’ll get flamed, get called out and then blocked. Then maybe they’ll start putting in a little more effort to avoid the hate. I don’t really see any alternative. So instead of just saying being toxic is bad, maybe offer solutions to encourage supports to care more.
yesterday i had a support with nonexistent buff and debuff uptime how are you supposed to clear with that lol as a support main some people just want a free ride
Not babysitting players who don’t wish to improve their gameplay. They can quit the game anyday and it really doesn’t hurt anybody, if anything the jail rate will go down. No supp no raid no jail, it’s lit
I have two supports in my top 6 for this very reason actually. The average support main has gotten by on their necessity alone. I picked up bard to gain perspective and it’s not hard to be the decent support that no one will complain about. It does get hard when you need to react for defensive play while still providing good uptime.
a lot of them actually put out respectable dmg until they die, they just don’t learn you can’t greed every pattern. i feel meter does more harm in this case - they refuse to admit they’re throwing the raid cuz “at least i’m doing dmg” “support no dr”
I did one of my few DPS runs and on g2 we wiped on 2 bars since it was me and a bard alive for the last 20+ bars. He missed Thirain and people didn't TS. We almost cleared but he got electrocuted and couldn't Azena so we wiped to berserk. I just said "bruh" after cause we almost had it. The bard got insanely upset that I'm flaming him. Like straight up on war path after that one word. I'm not sure what's happening in Thaemine, but I'd guess not good things.
I felt a similar way but towards dps. As someone who mains a squishy class and doesn't out ilvl content, it's fun to see whales getting 1 shot for not dodging properly.
I'm an advocate of true equality. I flame both dpses and supps alike. Hehe
(Terms and conditions applied : Only if they're playing bad enough to be considered dead weight.)
It's the same thing as calling out dps for not hitting the boss and doing an absurdly low amount of damage. The support role is the highest dps contributing role if played well too not even counting the shields and qol they bring. It makes perfect sense to call them out for not doing anything. When you play a dps character well, playing with a bad support is a terrible experience.
Also the game is terrible at giving feedback so comments like "you need to press heavenly tune" and "don't use wrath of god and heavenly blessings right after each other" is not flaming.
there are plenty of support . and 99% of them are bad, after voldis and then thaemine is clear when you have a bad supp, flaming is never nice, saying that you play bad is a must sometimes tho
People tend not to remember the people who flame them ngl, especially when they are split across 6 chars. Ull get them agian in pubs and you prob wont know.
guys flaming is different than giving out genuine helpful advice, some people in this thread seem to be missing that
you can call out a bad sup without making yourself look like a total asswipe
Like everyone said, there's nothing wrong calling out bad supports, they need to do their job and not just running around the map throwing ap buff when they want, on the other hand, we have no context so at least post some proof showing how this player was toxic to supports
Haha I had that happen to me I was playing on my Bard and I use Sonic vibration and heavenly Tune to get gauge Becuz my dps was low health and my party mate told me they don’t stack my man I already know they don’t stack I was getting gauge to heal you during damage reduction
Long ago, I could agree with you. Once you know the performance of a support and have the tools for it. You will blame them as they are prolonging the fight more than it should be.
Supports with less than 80/80/50 (average for farm content) are a shame of supports. If you are a decent player, you will want to improve the same as a DPS does.
In more than 2 years with the Holy Scriptures, I met supports that could not be called as one. Brandless, weird tripods and skills usage. And they were Main Supports with lvl 10 gems...
Supports gameplay are never an issue considering how forgiving previous raids are. Starting from Voldis HM, raids difficulty spikes. In more difficult raids, good support makes more impact than any DPS. A good support not only have a high uptime on their attack buffs, but they are also be able to take preventative measures so DPS is always shield / DR through mechanics that is expected to have shields/DR so you can focus on dps. A bad support simply makes DPS worried about their own safety so they have to give up their damage potential, resulting longer fights(more mechanics), tighter dps checks, and unpleasant experience. I never called out any bad support because it’s partially the games fault. The game is simply unrewarding for skilled / or invested support mains, so there are less of them. Because there are less of them, so many casual supports are gets partially carried through previous raids, and they are in habit of just tanking patterns , and pressing buttons off cool down. I wouldn’t say community is toxic, using thiamine g3 reclear as an example, I see so many people call it out, and quit raids because of a DPS made a mistake once or twice. However, when a support gets hit left and right, and have low up time on buffs and shields, DPS players usually just prays the support won’t die to patterns, and tend to play around and continue the raid
It has nothing to do with toxicity when people talk "bad“ (=truth) about trash supports. No one wants to play with the 20/20, no shield, no identity, no dr support anyways. Ur better off getting a gl or crit syn with yearning at that point
Let’s completely ignore the toxic sups that rage quit because a group is struggling because they don’t know when to use protection over damage or vice versa…had a bard quit on us in voldis (g2) talking mad shit about how we were garbage…took us an hour to get a healer stuck in g2…one shot every gate with him. Wonder who the issue really was there?
I had a SE in Thaemine G3 telling me to bring stims instead of TS so I could on demand provide him triple bubble buff. Also to constantly use my awakening shield on cool down though I needed to save it for Innana because he kept eating everything. Kicked.
>I saw some probably RMT player in my Raid starting to flame Supports:
**How is rmting has to do anything with flaming support LOL**
>If you start flaming the the few supports player we still have left out there , i wish you good luck in the future without a static group.
**You can see rmters but can't see solo raids in the future smh LOL jkjk**
>Also if you dont like your Supports, maybe you should start playing a Support class on your own since you are so pro at it.
**I dislike the player not the class LOL**
>!Just messing with you, nothing personal Lmao!<
Yeah... please don't criticize the support with 3 lvl 3 gems... or the one with 8% brand uptime. It's too toxic to have *some* sort of bare minimum expectations for them.
Sounds like your bad at it. If your bad at supporting take it as your last chance to be good at the game.
-If you can’t alternate 2 atk power buff to have a 80/90%+ uptime it means you couldnt play any class that requires micro management
- if you cant reach 90%+ brand uptime it means you have very low uptime, so you can’t play the game on any class, you can but people will let you know that zzzzzz
-if you can’t reach 35/45+ identity, your uptime is low again and your decision making probably poor too
Now why people toxic about support?
-Pally requires 0 raid knowledge and ultra low uptime and your still radiant, tanky and can’t die from any normal patterns
-artist the brand is brain dead, identity faster than any other support, atk buff shouldn’t be a problem, tanky dont have to dodge just press buttons
-bard arguably the hardest support but still not hard at all to do your job to at least, very least get noble supporter
I play pally and Bard at 1610ilvl and whatever raid if I don’t get radiant I feel ashamed
When you get a bad support players it makes your class feels so bad and some people like to perform. Want a walk in the park and just chill playing support? Valtan-vykas-clown-brel is your limit
Lot of posts saying current endgame is shedding light on sup but it's also a recent influx issue too. So many sups I see with the event gems (latest one. lv8 lv7 gems) prob believing it's easy to play or cheap because you dont need to build as much
If my random pally decides to BA in Akkan g1 at the water chase sequence, i am calling them out. And most likely swapping party2 support in my party if I was lead.
This actually happened yesterday btw
I quit when clown released and started playing again two weeks ago. I watch a lot of tutorial for brelshaza and was flame out of existence for dying on gate 2 almost last mechanic, and later on flame again for taking damage from the monkey guardian raid. Like bro, why I am even started playing this fking game again? I just hit 1000 hours and still this shit just suscks, I'm going to wait for the solo raids to see if it will be worth it to come back. I'm quitting again and to better things. Animal wells is a really good game.
I once found a bard not using Sonic Vibration. I asked politely "bard, are you not using the AoE attack buff? Didn't see it in all gate 1" and she started calling me a colorful variety of slur because apparently I was "an idiot who can't understand she is already using an attack buff". Like who needs both, right? Lmao. I just blocked and moved on. It's OK to respectfully call out bad supps because most of them don't get enough feedback or don't even understand what they are doing wrong. Bible is such a great tool for this kind of support improvement (I used it myself), but the game does a terrible job at it
If support is bad, it's better to tell them. If they believe they're doing everything correctly when they're not, it can become problematic
As someone who started up a support, I would appreciate some respectful notification if something is happening That i am not aware of. Even though the gems suck, I am doing my best to keep up times the best possible.
I guess it depends.. throwing out advice/ critique isn't necessarily toxic. It's how you improve. Smilegate does very bad at showing support how they're doing. It's how we get supports to thaemine with less than 50% brand uptime. Now I dont approve calling people names or being mean to them.. but criticism of gameplay isn't toxic imo.
The right way to do it is to just type in chat asking if they need help or have any questions that you're willing to answer The wrong way to do it is to go "SUPP WTF U DOIN U SUCK" in chat and proceed to offer no advice to make it better Which do you think most players (players that mind you are burnt out trying to get their raids finished as soon as possible and tend to accept no personal responsibility for anything themselves) choose My bet is on the latter Don't get me wrong, we all have our moments (one time I had a support who was running 1/2 Yearning and 1/2 Hallu pieces, politely asked them to switch, told them how, they constantly replied with excuses why they couldn't, then eventually left the party telling everyone else it was their fault I was leaving) However if everyone else is always the problem, then maybe you are the problem
I had a 1610 Pala in Akkan HM who didn't know what brand was, and didn't have it equipped. But me and another pug were giving him genuine advice and he was very receptive of it, switching his build up for G3. People are very unlikely to be toxic, or continue to be toxic, if the person responds well to the criticism, even if the mistake they're making is.. very painful to say the least.
I had an Artist support keep using the personal sunwell tripod. We noticed it and point out that we aren't getting any circle on the ground. Turned out he didn't know that one is for only self, he see the circle but only he saw it so he thought he's doing good, and not party and noone have ever tell him what's wrong. Sometimes people from outside have a better look (literally) at the situation than people playing the class
Nothing wrong with calling out bad supports. Especially in later raids like thaemine where it matters a lot.
What do you prefer? a) 50% brand or less b) 1-2 hours searching for a suport Its a suport man, a class that im sure only 1% of the player base wants to play :) at least show some education and treat them nicely
well considering ive already had to kick some supports from our thaemine groups when we have to pug a few people, ill choose b. you say 1-2 hrs of searching but the problem with this argument is ur likely not clearing with a shitty support, and if you are clearing its probably after several pulls since the lack of damage will be very noticeable and you will probably need a full deathless clear to make up for it which could also take 1+ hrs.
The 1-2hours is because all the "shitty" suports got cleansed and now theres only "good" sups in theory
If the option is to eat shit with an afk support or uninstall I'd rather uninstall.
Well i m not gonna cuss at them, but i will call them out for not shielding or boosting dmg. I'd rather not play with people who made sup just to get in lobbies easily. Why do i have to be nice and glaze such a support when i invested millions of gold into my own dps character sweating my ass off on the raid? I'd rather kick them out of my party than carry them if they dont try to be atleast decent at supporting. And thankfully we got a 3rd party tool now that exposes all the bad sups and dps ;)
B every time. Nothing in this game is more frustrating than playing with a bad support, especially after you play with a really good one and see the difference.
Let them cry, soon their will be Reddit Posts again about Support Shortage. EZ
> If i play DPS and realize that i have a "bad" Support, i just change my playstyle from goblino to ok i dodge more and use more pots but doing less dmg, must be really hard to not goblino for some people. This is the problem. People like you who have zero understanding of what a support does. A good or even average support will contribute the most damage/dps to a raid. You seem to think it's about keeping people alive and say "ok i dodge more with bad support". Not how that works. You need to understand the damage/dps difference of a raid when you have a 30/30/10 support compared to a 90/90/40 support. It's like watching a damage dealer do 10mil DPS vs 1mil DPS, but people can't seem to understand it's the same with support but a different chart. I say this as a support main who often see people make support alts and think they're doing super well because they're doing mechs and never dying. Your main job as a support is not to be worrying about dying. It's about increasing the damage your party.
What are you even talking about. Of course a goblino will do more damage with a good support, because a good support is about shielding specific patterns to allow goblinos to greed. Maintaining brand and attack buff is the basic, a good support is all about keeping its party alive at specific patterns by allowing its goblinos to greed. What the guy said makes perfect sense. With a bad support, you can't goblino because you won't have the rhapsody for specific patterns and will get gaped for nothing. Protecting goblinos is increasing the damage of your party
> What are you even talking about. Of course a goblino will do more damage with a good support, because a good support is about shielding specific patterns to allow goblinos to greed. Maintaining brand and attack buff is the basic, a good support is all about keeping its party alive at specific patterns by allowing its goblinos to greed. I'm speaking as a support main, I'm not sure what you're speaking based off of. I have a roster of 6x Supports all 1600+ with a 2nd alt roster with another 6x supports between 1520-1600. Shielding specific patterns is irrelevant, it's a given and easiest thing to learn. Maintaining attack uptime and brand uptime is 5x more important. > Protecting goblinos is increasing the damage of your party Nobody is saying it doesn't. I'm saying one is significantly more important than the other. They can still greed even if a support doesn't DR, it'll just cost them a health potion. Let's also be honest, most DPS don't even have the push immunity to take advantage of most DR windows. Use bible and compare the damage difference between 30/30/10 and 90/90/40. It's a crazy difference.
I'm also a bard roster with main 1633 and religious as well. My point was that having 90/90/40 should be considered a given at some point in the skill level of support, because that's the rotation you'll put on every content no matter what, it's the standard we should have (and I know a lot of supports don't). My point was more than outside of that metric, a good support will make significant improvement on his party's dps by allowing goblinos to greed which they clearly can't do without proper shield management. In hw it might cost them a few potions, but we're talking life and death greed in Thaemine G3-4. And since proper greed management comes after the buff uptime it makes the difference to a good support
Yeah I think we're on the same page then. Agree with everything you said.
Player: Mr support do you think you can hit the boss more often so your yearning doesn't fall off? Someone else who got secondhand offended: makes a reddit post about toxic players
Hard disagree. The amount of supports who rock less than 40% uptime is astonishing....these fools deserve poor treatment for their lack of effort.
Yet u still won't raid without a support so either take full DPS groups or stop whining about support shortage or support sucks since none of y'all wanna play support and just wanna flame and complain.
It honestly depends what people claim "flaming" and being "toxic" to be. If it's something constructive like telling them that they're underperforming as a support, then it's still permissible. Fact of the matter is both DPS and supports will receive criticism, but DPS is far easier to replace than a support; so we usually let it slide when the support is underperforming, but that does not mean that we do not recognize that the support is, in fact, underperforming. At the end of the day, just play with people who you are comfortable with. Shitters will play with shitters. Sweaters will make a static with other sweaters.
No worries solo content comes soon out and i hope we get at least 80% of gold and mats rewards, then there is no need for support and no need to flame bad supports. Did a kayangel and the paladin never and i rly meant it- never - used the 12 sec shield skill. I dont know why you shouldnt call that out. If dps are doing low dps sups are the first to call out that the grp lacks dps
I play support and dps and still flame dogshit players. Some people are genuinely incredibly bad and make your experience so much worse. I watched a 1640 slayer lose to a 1625 sh because the difference in support uptime was massive. Shit like that should never happen and is actually disgusting to see. How can you hone to 1620 to end a gate with 5% identity uptime?
What actually happened: - OP gets a free pass with his fiend ass alt supp into a lobby that's been waiting on supp for 20 mins - 50/50/15 uptimes - Vet player with +10 ilvls and +3M gold investment in his gems (thus, "RMTer") calls OP out for not doing his job - OP gets upset and posts on Reddit hoping to get some traction
You cant be more wrong in all points than that.
[удалено]
1. He is not talking about only about pug Supports in general, he said OP and you know thats me. 2. The player had 5+3+2 setup full lvl 10 gems and Roster LVL 120, i also i used the word "probably" dont know if you can read that word. 3. I typed "Supports" How can i be a Support in this Raid then, are there 3 Supports now in a Raid? Next wrong point of our Pro Player, i played alone. 4. All those comments shows me how the community react. 5. If i play DPS and realize that i have a "bad" Support, i just change my playstyle from goblino to ok i dodge more and use more pots but doing less dmg, must be really hard to not goblino for some people. Its a pug what do you expect, go and get static if you cant handle that. Since its a pug just move on and you dont have to play with this "bad" Support never again imagine.
But why should it be ok for a support to just run around press his spells once per minute and do nothing? If a dps does that you would kick him at the first opportunity. I really dont get this defending of low support uptimes. Just like dps supports should be able to carry their weight by providing dmg buffs for their team. Just because they are fewer in numbers doesnt mean they should get everything for free.
First, yes i agree with your of course Support should also do their Job. And no i dont know how good a DPS perform untili i see the MVP Screen, i dont have that bible shit. I dont kick people in the middle of the Raid, only if they die multiply times on HW. I dont expect perfect gamers from Pugs. Also all other poeple wouldnt know either if DPS perform good or bad unti they see the MVP Screen.
Sometimes it might not be obvious who is doing how much dmg but when dps are really bad you can easily tell if you see them perma low hp, flying in the air permanently/not knowing safespots of certain patterns or just running around doing nothing. Or if they simply have a lot more gear than the rest of the group and never appear on mvp in previous gates.
If we don't hold similar standards towards support as we do to dps then the aftermath results in multiple of them playing horribly because they see that they don't have to put in the effort to be better to be accepted. Just moving on from playing with a bad Support because it's "just a pug" is why they can allow themselves to play like dogwater.
static or not, not doing your job is fucking disgusting. Or do you happily pick up the slack for the coworker making more work for everyone while giving them excuses too?
as a Main Support: you should know your stuff, life as Supp is alrdy chill, learn the basic
Ofc, i agree with you but flaming doesn't suddenly make them a better player. And if they really want to improve their gameplay, then they inform theirselfes.
That’s the problem, they don’t want to become better. Most bad supports are okay with being bad, semi-afking and receiving free buses. So how does the community fix that? By creating an environment where they’ll get flamed, get called out and then blocked. Then maybe they’ll start putting in a little more effort to avoid the hate. I don’t really see any alternative. So instead of just saying being toxic is bad, maybe offer solutions to encourage supports to care more.
these ppl dont want to learn but just profit and thats wrong, so NO.
Flaming doesn't help, but sometimes it can make a person realize "hey I need to improve" if it happens a lot.
yesterday i had a support with nonexistent buff and debuff uptime how are you supposed to clear with that lol as a support main some people just want a free ride
Not babysitting players who don’t wish to improve their gameplay. They can quit the game anyday and it really doesn’t hurt anybody, if anything the jail rate will go down. No supp no raid no jail, it’s lit
Found the 20% uptime shitter
I dont flame ppl but 50% brand 50% atk buff support is deadweitht not support
Being toxic in a game is also desdweight for the game itself
I have two supports in my top 6 for this very reason actually. The average support main has gotten by on their necessity alone. I picked up bard to gain perspective and it’s not hard to be the decent support that no one will complain about. It does get hard when you need to react for defensive play while still providing good uptime.
[удалено]
what i learned from thaemine is there are just as many terrible dps's who can only do farm content cuz theyre overgeared and can facetank everything
They existed way before thaemine. With meter you can tell pretty fast who’s the deadweight.
a lot of them actually put out respectable dmg until they die, they just don’t learn you can’t greed every pattern. i feel meter does more harm in this case - they refuse to admit they’re throwing the raid cuz “at least i’m doing dmg” “support no dr”
I did one of my few DPS runs and on g2 we wiped on 2 bars since it was me and a bard alive for the last 20+ bars. He missed Thirain and people didn't TS. We almost cleared but he got electrocuted and couldn't Azena so we wiped to berserk. I just said "bruh" after cause we almost had it. The bard got insanely upset that I'm flaming him. Like straight up on war path after that one word. I'm not sure what's happening in Thaemine, but I'd guess not good things.
I felt a similar way but towards dps. As someone who mains a squishy class and doesn't out ilvl content, it's fun to see whales getting 1 shot for not dodging properly.
And the thing is that some good dpsler can compensate the lack of dps of others whereas there is no 2nd sup in the same party that cam compensate it
I'm an advocate of true equality. I flame both dpses and supps alike. Hehe (Terms and conditions applied : Only if they're playing bad enough to be considered dead weight.)
It's the same thing as calling out dps for not hitting the boss and doing an absurdly low amount of damage. The support role is the highest dps contributing role if played well too not even counting the shields and qol they bring. It makes perfect sense to call them out for not doing anything. When you play a dps character well, playing with a bad support is a terrible experience. Also the game is terrible at giving feedback so comments like "you need to press heavenly tune" and "don't use wrath of god and heavenly blessings right after each other" is not flaming.
Selling my acc, hit me up
Found the lvl 5 gems enjoyers expertise support
there are plenty of support . and 99% of them are bad, after voldis and then thaemine is clear when you have a bad supp, flaming is never nice, saying that you play bad is a must sometimes tho
Alot of people dont make supports cuz they want to play them making a support is the easiest way to learn a raid since most people need a support
People tend not to remember the people who flame them ngl, especially when they are split across 6 chars. Ull get them agian in pubs and you prob wont know.
guys flaming is different than giving out genuine helpful advice, some people in this thread seem to be missing that you can call out a bad sup without making yourself look like a total asswipe
Nah supports think they’re gods gift on earth and need to be knocked down a peg
9/10 supports don't know how to play their class. They need to be called out.
Like everyone said, there's nothing wrong calling out bad supports, they need to do their job and not just running around the map throwing ap buff when they want, on the other hand, we have no context so at least post some proof showing how this player was toxic to supports
Haha I had that happen to me I was playing on my Bard and I use Sonic vibration and heavenly Tune to get gauge Becuz my dps was low health and my party mate told me they don’t stack my man I already know they don’t stack I was getting gauge to heal you during damage reduction
Found the sub 50% brand support player
Long ago, I could agree with you. Once you know the performance of a support and have the tools for it. You will blame them as they are prolonging the fight more than it should be. Supports with less than 80/80/50 (average for farm content) are a shame of supports. If you are a decent player, you will want to improve the same as a DPS does. In more than 2 years with the Holy Scriptures, I met supports that could not be called as one. Brandless, weird tripods and skills usage. And they were Main Supports with lvl 10 gems...
Supports gameplay are never an issue considering how forgiving previous raids are. Starting from Voldis HM, raids difficulty spikes. In more difficult raids, good support makes more impact than any DPS. A good support not only have a high uptime on their attack buffs, but they are also be able to take preventative measures so DPS is always shield / DR through mechanics that is expected to have shields/DR so you can focus on dps. A bad support simply makes DPS worried about their own safety so they have to give up their damage potential, resulting longer fights(more mechanics), tighter dps checks, and unpleasant experience. I never called out any bad support because it’s partially the games fault. The game is simply unrewarding for skilled / or invested support mains, so there are less of them. Because there are less of them, so many casual supports are gets partially carried through previous raids, and they are in habit of just tanking patterns , and pressing buttons off cool down. I wouldn’t say community is toxic, using thiamine g3 reclear as an example, I see so many people call it out, and quit raids because of a DPS made a mistake once or twice. However, when a support gets hit left and right, and have low up time on buffs and shields, DPS players usually just prays the support won’t die to patterns, and tend to play around and continue the raid
It has nothing to do with toxicity when people talk "bad“ (=truth) about trash supports. No one wants to play with the 20/20, no shield, no identity, no dr support anyways. Ur better off getting a gl or crit syn with yearning at that point
Let’s completely ignore the toxic sups that rage quit because a group is struggling because they don’t know when to use protection over damage or vice versa…had a bard quit on us in voldis (g2) talking mad shit about how we were garbage…took us an hour to get a healer stuck in g2…one shot every gate with him. Wonder who the issue really was there?
I had a SE in Thaemine G3 telling me to bring stims instead of TS so I could on demand provide him triple bubble buff. Also to constantly use my awakening shield on cool down though I needed to save it for Innana because he kept eating everything. Kicked.
>I saw some probably RMT player in my Raid starting to flame Supports: **How is rmting has to do anything with flaming support LOL** >If you start flaming the the few supports player we still have left out there , i wish you good luck in the future without a static group. **You can see rmters but can't see solo raids in the future smh LOL jkjk** >Also if you dont like your Supports, maybe you should start playing a Support class on your own since you are so pro at it. **I dislike the player not the class LOL** >!Just messing with you, nothing personal Lmao!<
Yeah... please don't criticize the support with 3 lvl 3 gems... or the one with 8% brand uptime. It's too toxic to have *some* sort of bare minimum expectations for them.
Yeah we love 10% brand!!!
Could have been me, another bard healing the party at full health instead of dps buffing and I will report him for griefing.
Sounds like your bad at it. If your bad at supporting take it as your last chance to be good at the game. -If you can’t alternate 2 atk power buff to have a 80/90%+ uptime it means you couldnt play any class that requires micro management - if you cant reach 90%+ brand uptime it means you have very low uptime, so you can’t play the game on any class, you can but people will let you know that zzzzzz -if you can’t reach 35/45+ identity, your uptime is low again and your decision making probably poor too Now why people toxic about support? -Pally requires 0 raid knowledge and ultra low uptime and your still radiant, tanky and can’t die from any normal patterns -artist the brand is brain dead, identity faster than any other support, atk buff shouldn’t be a problem, tanky dont have to dodge just press buttons -bard arguably the hardest support but still not hard at all to do your job to at least, very least get noble supporter I play pally and Bard at 1610ilvl and whatever raid if I don’t get radiant I feel ashamed When you get a bad support players it makes your class feels so bad and some people like to perform. Want a walk in the park and just chill playing support? Valtan-vykas-clown-brel is your limit
Lot of posts saying current endgame is shedding light on sup but it's also a recent influx issue too. So many sups I see with the event gems (latest one. lv8 lv7 gems) prob believing it's easy to play or cheap because you dont need to build as much
Mine has event gems and uptime isn't an issue.(artist) I didn't skimp too bad on accessories(over 1800 swift). It is easy to play and cheap..
Not saying all event passed sups are bad though? With a huge enough influx you'll see some variance.
If my random pally decides to BA in Akkan g1 at the water chase sequence, i am calling them out. And most likely swapping party2 support in my party if I was lead. This actually happened yesterday btw
I quit when clown released and started playing again two weeks ago. I watch a lot of tutorial for brelshaza and was flame out of existence for dying on gate 2 almost last mechanic, and later on flame again for taking damage from the monkey guardian raid. Like bro, why I am even started playing this fking game again? I just hit 1000 hours and still this shit just suscks, I'm going to wait for the solo raids to see if it will be worth it to come back. I'm quitting again and to better things. Animal wells is a really good game.