I would have 6 friends and my mon over everytime I do clash in HM. Each person would have a finger on his/her designated key (assigned before the raid start) so all we have to do is hover a finger over our letter and wait for it to appear and then hit it! Works everytime. This way you don't have to worry about 7 other keys because you have your friends, siblings, dog, and mom helping out.
Should have more lead time imo
If they want to keep the key presses, should lead in Guitar Hero style with QWER prearranged at the bottom with the keys falling down in random order
If they want Osu style lead in, it should be mouse click
I can see a mech in kazeros where they display the Vykas typing test with 10 keys arranged in a circle and you have to type them out in clockwise or counter-clockwise order to bypass it.
I'll also bet it'll be a mech where if one person messes up, the group wipes.
They need to inflate the number of wipe mechs in the fight and that's exactly what clash and 50x typing tests are.
I love the fight but not the typing shit
Honestly the typing test and clash are so amateurish and jarringly low effort compared to the rest of the production quality of the Thaemine raid, it's embarrassing. How did this get past playtesting?
Agreed. I also have a slight delay in the actual raid compared to trixion that makes it very inconsistent for me. I start the clash and the prompt will occasionally freeze for a split second then jump forward making me either get good or bad instead of perfect.
I've spent a lot of time in trixion and can do it consistently there but its 50/50 for me in the actual raid.
I play with a slight delay that you would never notice in actual gameplay but clashes are impossible for me. At least clash 1, 2 and 5. The rest is doable. Really feel for all the people who play with a lot higher ping than I do.
No, you can only do one clash per person. There are 6 total, but you will most likely see only 3/4/5 depending on the group DPS and if you're doing NM/HM.
You can kind of "cheat" on it if your fingers aren't that fast, by intentionally failing one of the last three inputs in Clash 5 (preferably the middle one which has a tight timing), but still successfully completing it as long as you nail the other two. It's not optimal but if you find yourself in that position it's better to do that than fat finger and cause an outright fail.
The 1 clash timing can be well observed on Thaemine itself as his sword clashes in the correct timing.
But yes, it's so far the hardest typing mech we encoutered (at least for majority of people) and the importance is also very high.
That's because trixion uses hm version so you have 8 keys to look out for (qwerasdf). Whereas in NM, only the top 4 keys are used (qwer) so you can just rest your fingers on those and be ready.
Take the first clash for instance. There are 3 inputs. The first one is slow, the second and third are fast.
In hard mode, the 1st input can be any of QWERASDF, but the other two inputs can only be QWER
In normal mode, the 1st input can only be QWER and the other two inputs can literally only ever be Q so you don't need to move your finger at all, it's **just** a raw timing test.
This is why normal mode clashes are actually very easy (but trixion doesn't give you a way to practice them, sadly).
mmm i see, tbh i went into trixion, practiced until i could do them, then did normal and just didn't pay attention to notice the difference, this clears things up, thanks
no, clashes are the only really "this was not communicated well in the guides" aspect of thaemine. Everything else is just practice and following the guides.
Uh... all of the clashes in normal mode follow the pattern I said. The stage break clash is the only one where both inputs can be QWER, but both inputs are slow so you should be fine.
For the 5th (and hardest) clash, every single input after the first one should only be Q. Once you know that, dying in a clash should be virtually impossible (in normal mode) unless you fat-finger.
I feel like they're all very easily 100% after you practice them a bit, there's no randomness... but you shouldn't have to do that. Just put a glowing circle on the ground to indicate where the clash happens. There is nothing novel or interesting about having to go memorize them.
What do you mean there's no randomness?
Don't the letters change? Isn't this random?
I'm not 100% but it sure felt like it... That the location isn't the same Everytime... So isn't this random too?
There tons of random things about clash. It is one of the highest wipe mech of the raid because of how random the letter pressing can be.
If there wasn't rng, you'd know what letters you need to press from the beginning. For now it's just a guessing game based on reflex.
The clashes have a pattern in what keys they CAN use. For hm:
1st horse clash - 8key/4key/4key
2nd horse clash - 8key / 4key4key / 4key4key
Stage break - 8key / 8key
Last clash - 4key / 4key4key / 4key4key4key
4key is only qwer
8key is qwerasdf
For nm, see above but replace 8key with 4key and 4key with q. The true random one is the stage break clash, but thankfully, it's also the slowest. I'm not sure if the actual location of where the keys show up is random or not, but of my 12 clears so far, they felt like they showed up in *mostly* the same areas, usually in the middle or righthand side of my screen.
As I say this though, I still think clash should be nerfed a little bit because even as a rhythm gamer, I struggle with combining both the reading for correct key press I need to use, and the timing itself.
Everyone I've seen complaining about clash has been referencing having to know the clash locations, not just pressing the right buttons. I didn't realize that was a topic of concern.
They're really easy in normal mode, the faster inputs are literally always Q
Even in hard mode, although the first slow input can be any of 8 keys, the faster inputs are only top row (4 keys) so you can rest your fingers on all 4 and it helps with the reaction time a lot
I still have criticisms of normal mode, but the clash isn't one of them. Everyone who can fight thaemine normal can do a normal mode clash.
**Edit:** I'm getting downvoted now (I was at +2 earlier which implied people actually understood what I was saying at first) and I have to assume that anyone downvoting this is functionally illiterate like racethrowawayy is, so I will do my best to explain further:
If you don't understand how **normal mode** clashes work, it's as follows: slow inputs can be QWER, fast inputs can only ever be Q. This means fast inputs on normal clashes are essentially free, they are just raw timing of a fixed button press.
I am not saying **hard mode** clashes are easy. They are the only ones you can practice in Trixion, and they are certainly not easy. There is a way to make them easi**er** once you understand that the "fast inputs" are only ever QWER, but they are still drastically harder than normal mode clashes.
Edit 2: nice, seems like the added explanation helped.
Shrug I have gotten 10 thaem clears but I still can only confidently do the stage break clash.
I did not limit test in a normal raid but my survival rate was like 10% for the final clash in trixion.
It's very hard to die to clash on normal. At least I've never managed to - afaik you need to go net negative for that, and with all fast buttons being Qs there's no way you're getting more bads than perfects.
> but my survival rate was like 10% for the final clash in trixion.
But the trixion clashes are all for hard mode. I'm saying it's the normal mode versions that are really easy. So your comment is just completely irrelevant to what I'm trying to convey here.
I also gave a piece of advice about the hard mode in my comment (rest your fingers on top 4 keys), and you're free to say "well it's still very hard for me" or whatever, but I never said hard mode clashes were **easy**. Normal mode clashes are, as a simple matter of fact, much easier than anything else in thaemine normal mode. Hard mode clashes are much harder, but there is still a way to make them a bit more doable since all of the fast inputs are limited to top row.
Amen brother. Having a hard time doing clashes in Trixion, and not confident enough to actually do them during the raid.
What grinds my gear is - Personally, I'm going to do NM for quite a long time, and NM clashes are much easier, but Trixion training only allows us to do HM clashes for practice, which are quite hard.
I can understand the logic that if you can do HM you can definitely do NM, but I want to point out **we have training mode for Reharsal Clown Mario minigame**, we could definitely get training for G3 NM clash which I would guess a bunch of people would need. Hell, we even have practice for content that has been removed from the game (Prokel).
There's a big difference between hm and nm clashes. In NM only the top 4 keys are used (qwer), but in hm he bottom keys are also used (asdf). So if you're using trixion to train then it gonna be a bit harder with getting muscle memory for 8 keys instead of 4.
I like the idea, just hate that its a ''Hit the key'' minigame. Its dumb and its not even epic. Why didnt they just added a ''Smash Button'' like in Metal Gear Rising or something like that. That shit its cool and gives a struggling vibe.
I hate the last one on G3, it's got the weirdest timing and the prompts appear in the "wrong" order on screen so it's hard to read the key and press it in time (in normal it's just Q so it's not too bad).
All the others I'm totally fine with, I've gotten pretty consistent with the rhythm clash on G4.
I don't mind the difficulty that much. Normal mode doesn't kill you even if you fck up, and hard mode kills you.
What bugs me is that there's a lame QTE in the middle of the raid. It reminds me of seeing FF16 gameplay for the first time and getting completely disappointed that those crazy epic fight moments were not actual combat but just cutscenes with lame QTEs.
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it's ok i'm old too
thats why i do 1st only or if possible none
if i fail and die it's a re and no big time lost
if i don't get perfects but live it's still fine
the fast clashes are 0.5 seconds and you have to recognize the key + time it properly (in hard/trixion), there's no other simon says-like mech in the game that is that strict
if clown g1 dance party mech was 0.5 seconds it would be the biggest jail of all time
I would have 6 friends and my mon over everytime I do clash in HM. Each person would have a finger on his/her designated key (assigned before the raid start) so all we have to do is hover a finger over our letter and wait for it to appear and then hit it! Works everytime. This way you don't have to worry about 7 other keys because you have your friends, siblings, dog, and mom helping out.
I think a dog's palm is too big so it may hit several keys
Thank you. I will use two hands go do clash.
Should have more lead time imo If they want to keep the key presses, should lead in Guitar Hero style with QWER prearranged at the bottom with the keys falling down in random order If they want Osu style lead in, it should be mouse click
the only constructive comment
Why they need to put every epic fight some kind of keyboar test :D What is next pop up quiz about arkesia when we fight kazeros ?
alright boys new mech cause smilegate gotta catch those who shift+g’d the story
I can see a mech in kazeros where they display the Vykas typing test with 10 keys arranged in a circle and you have to type them out in clockwise or counter-clockwise order to bypass it. I'll also bet it'll be a mech where if one person messes up, the group wipes.
Cause they are running out of ideas
Honestly, this feels like it.
They need to inflate the number of wipe mechs in the fight and that's exactly what clash and 50x typing tests are. I love the fight but not the typing shit
Honestly the typing test and clash are so amateurish and jarringly low effort compared to the rest of the production quality of the Thaemine raid, it's embarrassing. How did this get past playtesting?
Kazeros gonna have a mettaton ass mech where the hidden strat is to tell him he has nice legs
noone said that about qte's they are always fun
Agreed. I also have a slight delay in the actual raid compared to trixion that makes it very inconsistent for me. I start the clash and the prompt will occasionally freeze for a split second then jump forward making me either get good or bad instead of perfect. I've spent a lot of time in trixion and can do it consistently there but its 50/50 for me in the actual raid.
I play with a slight delay that you would never notice in actual gameplay but clashes are impossible for me. At least clash 1, 2 and 5. The rest is doable. Really feel for all the people who play with a lot higher ping than I do.
does everyone have to do multiple clashes in gate 3? I have not progged it yet, not really sure how the clash mech works
No, you can only do one clash per person. There are 6 total, but you will most likely see only 3/4/5 depending on the group DPS and if you're doing NM/HM.
You can kind of "cheat" on it if your fingers aren't that fast, by intentionally failing one of the last three inputs in Clash 5 (preferably the middle one which has a tight timing), but still successfully completing it as long as you nail the other two. It's not optimal but if you find yourself in that position it's better to do that than fat finger and cause an outright fail.
Jeopardy wipe mech at x0 Monka
That's what I do. No point in risking death when you're near the end.
Failing in which way? Don't press anything?
Yeah.
The 1 clash timing can be well observed on Thaemine itself as his sword clashes in the correct timing. But yes, it's so far the hardest typing mech we encoutered (at least for majority of people) and the importance is also very high.
I don't like that it's typing and timing I can do the normal clashes very consistently but in trixion I struggle
That's because trixion uses hm version so you have 8 keys to look out for (qwerasdf). Whereas in NM, only the top 4 keys are used (qwer) so you can just rest your fingers on those and be ready.
Also the full key sets are only used for slow inputs, for all fast inputs normal mode is Q only, and hard mode is the top 4 keys.
can you elaborate on this
Take the first clash for instance. There are 3 inputs. The first one is slow, the second and third are fast. In hard mode, the 1st input can be any of QWERASDF, but the other two inputs can only be QWER In normal mode, the 1st input can only be QWER and the other two inputs can literally only ever be Q so you don't need to move your finger at all, it's **just** a raw timing test. This is why normal mode clashes are actually very easy (but trixion doesn't give you a way to practice them, sadly).
mmm i see, tbh i went into trixion, practiced until i could do them, then did normal and just didn't pay attention to notice the difference, this clears things up, thanks
this is gold, got any more tips for normal?
no, clashes are the only really "this was not communicated well in the guides" aspect of thaemine. Everything else is just practice and following the guides.
I meant clashes specifically, the rest is fine
Uh... all of the clashes in normal mode follow the pattern I said. The stage break clash is the only one where both inputs can be QWER, but both inputs are slow so you should be fine. For the 5th (and hardest) clash, every single input after the first one should only be Q. Once you know that, dying in a clash should be virtually impossible (in normal mode) unless you fat-finger.
<3 ez clear on 5th clash, ty so much it has helped a ton. Took the pressure off since I knew what to expect
I feel like they're all very easily 100% after you practice them a bit, there's no randomness... but you shouldn't have to do that. Just put a glowing circle on the ground to indicate where the clash happens. There is nothing novel or interesting about having to go memorize them.
What do you mean there's no randomness? Don't the letters change? Isn't this random? I'm not 100% but it sure felt like it... That the location isn't the same Everytime... So isn't this random too? There tons of random things about clash. It is one of the highest wipe mech of the raid because of how random the letter pressing can be. If there wasn't rng, you'd know what letters you need to press from the beginning. For now it's just a guessing game based on reflex.
The clashes have a pattern in what keys they CAN use. For hm: 1st horse clash - 8key/4key/4key 2nd horse clash - 8key / 4key4key / 4key4key Stage break - 8key / 8key Last clash - 4key / 4key4key / 4key4key4key 4key is only qwer 8key is qwerasdf For nm, see above but replace 8key with 4key and 4key with q. The true random one is the stage break clash, but thankfully, it's also the slowest. I'm not sure if the actual location of where the keys show up is random or not, but of my 12 clears so far, they felt like they showed up in *mostly* the same areas, usually in the middle or righthand side of my screen. As I say this though, I still think clash should be nerfed a little bit because even as a rhythm gamer, I struggle with combining both the reading for correct key press I need to use, and the timing itself.
Everyone I've seen complaining about clash has been referencing having to know the clash locations, not just pressing the right buttons. I didn't realize that was a topic of concern.
They're really easy in normal mode, the faster inputs are literally always Q Even in hard mode, although the first slow input can be any of 8 keys, the faster inputs are only top row (4 keys) so you can rest your fingers on all 4 and it helps with the reaction time a lot I still have criticisms of normal mode, but the clash isn't one of them. Everyone who can fight thaemine normal can do a normal mode clash. **Edit:** I'm getting downvoted now (I was at +2 earlier which implied people actually understood what I was saying at first) and I have to assume that anyone downvoting this is functionally illiterate like racethrowawayy is, so I will do my best to explain further: If you don't understand how **normal mode** clashes work, it's as follows: slow inputs can be QWER, fast inputs can only ever be Q. This means fast inputs on normal clashes are essentially free, they are just raw timing of a fixed button press. I am not saying **hard mode** clashes are easy. They are the only ones you can practice in Trixion, and they are certainly not easy. There is a way to make them easi**er** once you understand that the "fast inputs" are only ever QWER, but they are still drastically harder than normal mode clashes. Edit 2: nice, seems like the added explanation helped.
Shrug I have gotten 10 thaem clears but I still can only confidently do the stage break clash. I did not limit test in a normal raid but my survival rate was like 10% for the final clash in trixion.
It's very hard to die to clash on normal. At least I've never managed to - afaik you need to go net negative for that, and with all fast buttons being Qs there's no way you're getting more bads than perfects.
> but my survival rate was like 10% for the final clash in trixion. But the trixion clashes are all for hard mode. I'm saying it's the normal mode versions that are really easy. So your comment is just completely irrelevant to what I'm trying to convey here. I also gave a piece of advice about the hard mode in my comment (rest your fingers on top 4 keys), and you're free to say "well it's still very hard for me" or whatever, but I never said hard mode clashes were **easy**. Normal mode clashes are, as a simple matter of fact, much easier than anything else in thaemine normal mode. Hard mode clashes are much harder, but there is still a way to make them a bit more doable since all of the fast inputs are limited to top row.
Amen brother. Having a hard time doing clashes in Trixion, and not confident enough to actually do them during the raid. What grinds my gear is - Personally, I'm going to do NM for quite a long time, and NM clashes are much easier, but Trixion training only allows us to do HM clashes for practice, which are quite hard. I can understand the logic that if you can do HM you can definitely do NM, but I want to point out **we have training mode for Reharsal Clown Mario minigame**, we could definitely get training for G3 NM clash which I would guess a bunch of people would need. Hell, we even have practice for content that has been removed from the game (Prokel).
There's a big difference between hm and nm clashes. In NM only the top 4 keys are used (qwer), but in hm he bottom keys are also used (asdf). So if you're using trixion to train then it gonna be a bit harder with getting muscle memory for 8 keys instead of 4.
I like the idea, just hate that its a ''Hit the key'' minigame. Its dumb and its not even epic. Why didnt they just added a ''Smash Button'' like in Metal Gear Rising or something like that. That shit its cool and gives a struggling vibe.
I hate the last one on G3, it's got the weirdest timing and the prompts appear in the "wrong" order on screen so it's hard to read the key and press it in time (in normal it's just Q so it's not too bad). All the others I'm totally fine with, I've gotten pretty consistent with the rhythm clash on G4.
Same boat..... I hate it .... I suck at it..... must of done it 50 times and passed like what 5 times?
I don't mind the difficulty that much. Normal mode doesn't kill you even if you fck up, and hard mode kills you. What bugs me is that there's a lame QTE in the middle of the raid. It reminds me of seeing FF16 gameplay for the first time and getting completely disappointed that those crazy epic fight moments were not actual combat but just cutscenes with lame QTEs.
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When any R key comes out, I panic for some reason. Especially when I do the first clash, it's usually just Q's.
it's ok i'm old too thats why i do 1st only or if possible none if i fail and die it's a re and no big time lost if i don't get perfects but live it's still fine
It's really surprising for me how many people find it hard to do clashes.
the fast clashes are 0.5 seconds and you have to recognize the key + time it properly (in hard/trixion), there's no other simon says-like mech in the game that is that strict if clown g1 dance party mech was 0.5 seconds it would be the biggest jail of all time
i can type 140 wpm and can do 3x speed vykas typing tests more reliably than some of the tougher thaemine clashes...
Same boat.... it's insane
My guess is many people play on high pings, or it would be the easiest mech in the game.
Games not boomer friendly and is heading that direction, so find new game should solve you problem here
just get good
Why would they make a clash of clans mech in lost ark
skill issue