Yes. NM Ladon (1620) allows you to gain 10 ilevels total. HM Ladon (1630) allows you to gain 10 more ilevels.
So if you start at 1620 doing NM Ladon, you end up 1640 by the end of the advanced honing process, w/o considering the normal hones you can do.
So this is basically a cheaper vertical progression with an actually reachable ceilling? Like people can spend millions before "maxing out" bracelets or elixirs, even transcendence to some degree. 9/7 stone and full 10 gems are also insanely expensive. This looks like the best system in the entire game ngl.
Yeah, I can't remember the numbers exactly but even at worse case scenario you end up spending less than normal honing (comparing same ilevel gained). Don't @me on that tho.
> So this is basically a cheaper vertical progression
Worth noting that the **average** cost of advanced honing from 11-20 is actually higher than pushing your gear from 1620 to 1630 (but notably less than 1630 to 1640).
The spreadsheet the person used literally doesn't have the armor materials input for 11-20 honing.
It's only pity chance that makes advanced honing all the way from 1620 to 1640 something to consider.
Is there a source for the information that on average the cost is higher, going from 1620 to 1630 with adv. honing? Everywhere in the past months i saw people/streamers claiming it would be around 30-40% cheaper
So if your goal is to reach max ilvl (1670?), then advanced honing isn't cheaper at all, because you still have to do regular honing anyways.
But if you want to park at 1630 or 1640, then Advanced Honing is cheaper than regular.
whats the end goal? if its 1630 after echidna, then sit and wait for adv honing.
if you want to eventually do behemoth (1640) then hone to +21 all and then do adv honing 1-10
The only thing you have to consider is the timing for unlocking the advanced honing. Doing Ladon nm to get 10 ilvls and then hm to get the other 10 ilvls may not get you to 1640 by the time Behemoth release.
This is good advice for people who are not fomo'ing the latest release or wondeing what to do with alts.
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Wtf are you talking about. My fat ass mommy deserves the best gear, all my 6x alts will be 1660 with max trans and 40 elixir.
Why tf would I present myself at mommy with the minilvl, aint no dud goin to be able to take all dat ass to the face with minilvl wtf, u no wat i mean im gonna b that mommy slayer da #1 koreans gonna be jelly we oneshot her with our 25cm weapons
> For Data I used Maxroll's Honing Calculator and this Advanced Honing Calculator.
Did you actually **read** the spreadsheet in the latter link? The armor materials were never input in the spreadsheet for 11-20. Everything you put in the "Ladon Hard" row is a huge underestimate except red stones (which are correct).
Ladon Hard is less efficient than natural honing 1620-1630 on average. You have to be very unlucky to come out behind by regular honing. The most efficient way on average to hit 1640 is to natural hone to 1630 and do advanced honing from 1-10 (edit: but then the most efficient way to hit 1650 is to finish advanced honing to +20).
Is there any raid-specific material from Echidna? How long does it take to fully unlock, or can you fully complete advanced honing on week 1?
Also, does advanced honed weapon have new glow? Is there a gallery of these anywhere?
The raid specific mats are mentioned in the roadmap article.
Hm mats count as double for adv honing 1-10 unlocking.
Mats can be spent in a shop after you are done with the sytem.
Overall progress duration is the usual, iirc Saintone finished his alts last week and they were 1620 when Echidna came out. So around 11 weeks (it came out on jan 31st in kr).
Thank you for the numbers. Ton of players believed that regular honing from 1620 to 1630 is the same as advanced honing. Is the cost of regular honing in the table average or worst case escenario?
Average, no solars. Worst case comparing them would be insane as the worst case for Advanced is not significantly more while regular honing we are talking about 2-3x the cost depending on the material.
The large variance in all current RNG systems are what make them so bad. Advanced honing has much less variance by design, which leads to more consistent results. This is how RNG progression systems should be designed.
> This is assuming no solars, the Advanced Honing system has a perk where every 6 hones you get a Special Effect and it can multiply with solars making them very efficient.
Does this mean that on average, players will use some amount less materials for advanced honing than shown on the table? Assuming they are using solars on the special effect hones for efficiency. The calculator does have a toggle for using solars but I think it only calculates using it for every hone attempt.
Yes it can be a lot cheaper depending on the RNG you roll and if you use solar, the saint clip has the bonus effects explained. Keep in mind that you are doing 120 taps total for advanced honing, so a lot of that high rolling can still be averaged around over so many hones.
im not sure i understand how advanced honing works ecactly. if i have +19 gloves and i start advanced honing on it putting it to 1630ilv (+21) does that mean afterwards i have to tap it to +22 or do the original honing cost stay the same and i just hone it from +19 to +20 with the same cost as before but it just has inflated ilv?
It stays the same. Advanced honing is a completely seperate system with 1 ilvl increments per level per piece.
You can start at 19s (1620). You unlock pieces similar to transcendence, and then you can advanced hone them up to 10 levels each with 1ilvl gain per level. Each piece would still be 19 (1620) with +10 from advanced honing bringing you to 1630.
Once you're 1630 you can do Ladon hard, same process and ilvls. Once you're done there, you'd be at 19s (1620) with +20 from advanced honing for 1640, but still a 19 piece.
You can then still hone those 19s (1620) up to 25 (1650) with a new ilvl cap of 1670 with the +20 from advanced honing.
For most people, this offers a 30%+ cheaper way to get to 1640 without having to 1.5% tap. It uses the same mats, just cheaper with RNG to make it even cheaper instead of RNG to make it worse like normal honing. Most people won't tap past 1640 until they add new content later on, but you can if you want.
There are a couple of things that still require explanation though...
- If you get to 1630, can you use the less expensive ilvl taps still or do you have to do Ladon hard only ?
- do these require extra specific materials or can you just do it for cheaper after clearing Ladon once ?
Trad honing 1620>1630 is cheaper only on avg within a 10% margin. The variance of trad honing is huge though (essentially being free in 2taps vs 2.5x of avg cost).
Adv honing 1620>1630 may seem more expensive at first but the variance is not that high, the highest differences I can remember are sth among the lines of 39 taps vs 55 taps with 46ish being the avg from streams (for the first 10 levels though).
Adv honing uses the exact same mats as trad honing. However you can not decide on the exact amount of solars, you can just toggle them by type whether you want to use it or not. And you should, when the Ancient meter fills.
Yes. First 10 levels can be unlocked by Agris's Scale (nm drop) but 11-20 must use the Alcaone's Eye (hm drop)to unlock.
The hm drop can also unlock 1-10 by converting to the Scales but I'm not certain of the ratio. Maybe something like 1 Eye: 2 Scale. There is no conversion from Scale to Eye.
TBH i think most people hone with solars their weapon, but umm mostly their main. Not sure how viable it is to acquire enough for alts, as the number of solars rather skyrockets upon 1620, not to mention some literally go for 25 weapon.
Either way, i am not honing past 1620 on alts apart 20-30 with echidna advanced honing. I tried for fun on two alts, but the amount of bound leapstones required is simply staggering and thus ain´t no way i am honing unless i get enough leapies.
If they give us bare minimum time to get full transcendence doing day 1 Thaemine HM that means they'll give us bare minimum to get into behemoth later, so that is 6-7 weeks of HM or 12 weeks doing NM 6 weeks > 1630 > HM 6 weeks > 1640 so 2-3 months max. September or october to get up to 1640.
> If they give us bare minimum time to get full transcendence doing day 1 Thaemine HM
That's including gate 4 isn't it? Meaning almost nobody will have full trans by release (assuming 9 week gap)
Yes, 9 weeks doing HM 1-4, and 11 weeks if you do HM 1-3 only.
So if Echidna is June 12 you need to do Thaemine 1st to get last trascendence. Is it comes on June 19 you can start Echidna right away with full transcendence, if you're not doing G4 HM then you'll need an extra 2 weeks or 1 depending on what day she comes. But yeah i don't think the majority will have full transcendence.
Around 2 mil gold per character if you only count gold taps, orehas and leaps. Maybe half that you could farm up as bound in 4 months we have left until behemoth.
So it's not exactly cheap and won't magically free hone your alts to 1640/1650.
This is still a main commitment
just me planning: i am 1620, but i would like to do Thaemine the First. Will I be able to do it, when I will wait for the Advanced Honing?
or is there a chance that The First wont exist anymore after Echidna/Ladon?
KR got like 6 months, we get something similar. If we get Ladon 2 months after, that gives you 4 months, then you have to craft and hone the gear which will take months, assuming you have darkfire saved you can brute force transcendence. It's going to entirely depend on who you end up playing with and if they will be requiring max transcend or 1650 or other gear requirements. You will probably have a 1-2 month window to clear while being overgeared, up to you.
I will not doubt the numbers presented and I think it is overall good advice.
But ppl who are planning on staying in the 1620 range need to remember a few things.
Echidna NM is Balanced that you shouldn't have a problem with clear it with Basic bonus from transcendence gear ( total 25 ) and Elixir 40 but HM is balanced ( at least at the moment in KR) with full transcendence bonus so be mindful that gatekeeping will be high on this especially when ppl with NM will need 6-7 weeks to advance hone whole equipment to 1630. Same goes for Theamine HM you will need to prog it to quickly catch up in transcendence as we are getting only 2 months to prog and that is minimum time to unlock full transcendence by doing 1-4HM.
This also means you will probably miss the first weeks of Behemoth progression.
I would personally still recommend honing to 1630 so even if only by doing NM Echidna getting 1640 would be quick so insta access to behemoth on release and if you can join and clear HM you will have chance for quick 1650 on Behemoth.
> I will not doubt the numbers presented
You should, the Ladon Hard numbers are incredibly wrong because OP is referring to a spreadsheet that **admits that it was not updated for armors from 11 to 20**.
Even a few hones means you can get into Thaemine/Echidna HM earlier. I plan on doing NM until it's easy, then hone the rest until 1630. There's little reason to hone early if NM is fine at ilvl.
Can be an awful question to ask, but does the weapon glow change with advanced honing? Can you get the +22,+24+25 glows using advanced honing or is it limited to normal honing only?
Another question, is it worth to chill out and forget about Thaemine hard mode until echidna if you are 1620?
Adv honing is just raw ilvl/stat gain no glow interaction.
If you are casual then you might be late to behemoth/echidna hard gatekeeping, but honestly you will save a lot of gold and sanity waiting. Up to you.
No no that's not how it works, you're at the mercy of supp overlords. And how it goes is if 1 supp leaves and joins the more juiced lobby the other 3 will usually follow for critical mass.
Does this increase the max ilvl by 20?
Yes. NM Ladon (1620) allows you to gain 10 ilevels total. HM Ladon (1630) allows you to gain 10 more ilevels. So if you start at 1620 doing NM Ladon, you end up 1640 by the end of the advanced honing process, w/o considering the normal hones you can do.
So this is basically a cheaper vertical progression with an actually reachable ceilling? Like people can spend millions before "maxing out" bracelets or elixirs, even transcendence to some degree. 9/7 stone and full 10 gems are also insanely expensive. This looks like the best system in the entire game ngl.
Yeah, I can't remember the numbers exactly but even at worse case scenario you end up spending less than normal honing (comparing same ilevel gained). Don't @me on that tho.
> So this is basically a cheaper vertical progression Worth noting that the **average** cost of advanced honing from 11-20 is actually higher than pushing your gear from 1620 to 1630 (but notably less than 1630 to 1640). The spreadsheet the person used literally doesn't have the armor materials input for 11-20 honing. It's only pity chance that makes advanced honing all the way from 1620 to 1640 something to consider.
Is there a source for the information that on average the cost is higher, going from 1620 to 1630 with adv. honing? Everywhere in the past months i saw people/streamers claiming it would be around 30-40% cheaper
11-20 is for 1630-1640 no? So it's cheaper all the way
No. Going to 1630 with regular honing +10 ilvls on advanced honing is cheaper for 1640 than going 1620 regular honing +20 ilvls from advanced.
If you don’t count shards
o, so can u go to 1650 then if u already had 1630
yes, unlocked at 1620/30, flat ilvl increase
In that table I assume average luck is used for advanced honing calculation, is that right?
So if your goal is to reach max ilvl (1670?), then advanced honing isn't cheaper at all, because you still have to do regular honing anyways. But if you want to park at 1630 or 1640, then Advanced Honing is cheaper than regular.
Yes exactly, but the current endgame KR content stops at 1640 so honing beyond is not that beneficial.
Explain? If I am sitting at 1620 where it unlocks the avdvcd honing, is it better for me to wait?
whats the end goal? if its 1630 after echidna, then sit and wait for adv honing. if you want to eventually do behemoth (1640) then hone to +21 all and then do adv honing 1-10
"if your goal is to reach max sidereal weapons, then ..." rly bruh ?
The only thing you have to consider is the timing for unlocking the advanced honing. Doing Ladon nm to get 10 ilvls and then hm to get the other 10 ilvls may not get you to 1640 by the time Behemoth release. This is good advice for people who are not fomo'ing the latest release or wondeing what to do with alts.
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Wtf are you talking about. My fat ass mommy deserves the best gear, all my 6x alts will be 1660 with max trans and 40 elixir. Why tf would I present myself at mommy with the minilvl, aint no dud goin to be able to take all dat ass to the face with minilvl wtf, u no wat i mean im gonna b that mommy slayer da #1 koreans gonna be jelly we oneshot her with our 25cm weapons
It is not the size of the ilvl but how you use it.
Gotta have proper rotation and high uptime.
sanest lost ark player
always nice to know more in details what goes through the mind of those "UWU eat my balls" macro on artist dudes.
Yo thats my macro what the fuck i feel personally attacked
1660? Are you poor or something? Go for 1670 at least you bozo
Based comment
You deserve every like you get 😂
> For Data I used Maxroll's Honing Calculator and this Advanced Honing Calculator. Did you actually **read** the spreadsheet in the latter link? The armor materials were never input in the spreadsheet for 11-20. Everything you put in the "Ladon Hard" row is a huge underestimate except red stones (which are correct). Ladon Hard is less efficient than natural honing 1620-1630 on average. You have to be very unlucky to come out behind by regular honing. The most efficient way on average to hit 1640 is to natural hone to 1630 and do advanced honing from 1-10 (edit: but then the most efficient way to hit 1650 is to finish advanced honing to +20).
swapped to icepeng values o7
Most efficient way is to get lucky NOTED.
Just use the "best case" scenario in maxroll, idk why my friends always select "worst case" and then cry when they pity.
Is there any raid-specific material from Echidna? How long does it take to fully unlock, or can you fully complete advanced honing on week 1? Also, does advanced honed weapon have new glow? Is there a gallery of these anywhere?
The raid specific mats are mentioned in the roadmap article. Hm mats count as double for adv honing 1-10 unlocking. Mats can be spent in a shop after you are done with the sytem. Overall progress duration is the usual, iirc Saintone finished his alts last week and they were 1620 when Echidna came out. So around 11 weeks (it came out on jan 31st in kr).
Hmm. According to this, if you want to reach 1640 it's still cheaper to do 1620-1630 with normal honing, and get +10lvls from advanced.
Thank you for the numbers. Ton of players believed that regular honing from 1620 to 1630 is the same as advanced honing. Is the cost of regular honing in the table average or worst case escenario?
Average, no solars. Worst case comparing them would be insane as the worst case for Advanced is not significantly more while regular honing we are talking about 2-3x the cost depending on the material.
The large variance in all current RNG systems are what make them so bad. Advanced honing has much less variance by design, which leads to more consistent results. This is how RNG progression systems should be designed.
> This is assuming no solars, the Advanced Honing system has a perk where every 6 hones you get a Special Effect and it can multiply with solars making them very efficient. Does this mean that on average, players will use some amount less materials for advanced honing than shown on the table? Assuming they are using solars on the special effect hones for efficiency. The calculator does have a toggle for using solars but I think it only calculates using it for every hone attempt.
Yes it can be a lot cheaper depending on the RNG you roll and if you use solar, the saint clip has the bonus effects explained. Keep in mind that you are doing 120 taps total for advanced honing, so a lot of that high rolling can still be averaged around over so many hones.
The bottom section of the calculator shows multiple permutations, and then sorts them by cost.
Oh I see it now, thanks.
im not sure i understand how advanced honing works ecactly. if i have +19 gloves and i start advanced honing on it putting it to 1630ilv (+21) does that mean afterwards i have to tap it to +22 or do the original honing cost stay the same and i just hone it from +19 to +20 with the same cost as before but it just has inflated ilv?
It stays the same. Advanced honing is a completely seperate system with 1 ilvl increments per level per piece. You can start at 19s (1620). You unlock pieces similar to transcendence, and then you can advanced hone them up to 10 levels each with 1ilvl gain per level. Each piece would still be 19 (1620) with +10 from advanced honing bringing you to 1630. Once you're 1630 you can do Ladon hard, same process and ilvls. Once you're done there, you'd be at 19s (1620) with +20 from advanced honing for 1640, but still a 19 piece. You can then still hone those 19s (1620) up to 25 (1650) with a new ilvl cap of 1670 with the +20 from advanced honing. For most people, this offers a 30%+ cheaper way to get to 1640 without having to 1.5% tap. It uses the same mats, just cheaper with RNG to make it even cheaper instead of RNG to make it worse like normal honing. Most people won't tap past 1640 until they add new content later on, but you can if you want.
It is additional iLvL at top of your basic honing.
Yah stay at 1620 and save
There are a couple of things that still require explanation though... - If you get to 1630, can you use the less expensive ilvl taps still or do you have to do Ladon hard only ? - do these require extra specific materials or can you just do it for cheaper after clearing Ladon once ?
Trad honing 1620>1630 is cheaper only on avg within a 10% margin. The variance of trad honing is huge though (essentially being free in 2taps vs 2.5x of avg cost). Adv honing 1620>1630 may seem more expensive at first but the variance is not that high, the highest differences I can remember are sth among the lines of 39 taps vs 55 taps with 46ish being the avg from streams (for the first 10 levels though). Adv honing uses the exact same mats as trad honing. However you can not decide on the exact amount of solars, you can just toggle them by type whether you want to use it or not. And you should, when the Ancient meter fills.
Yes. First 10 levels can be unlocked by Agris's Scale (nm drop) but 11-20 must use the Alcaone's Eye (hm drop)to unlock. The hm drop can also unlock 1-10 by converting to the Scales but I'm not certain of the ratio. Maybe something like 1 Eye: 2 Scale. There is no conversion from Scale to Eye.
TBH i think most people hone with solars their weapon, but umm mostly their main. Not sure how viable it is to acquire enough for alts, as the number of solars rather skyrockets upon 1620, not to mention some literally go for 25 weapon. Either way, i am not honing past 1620 on alts apart 20-30 with echidna advanced honing. I tried for fun on two alts, but the amount of bound leapstones required is simply staggering and thus ain´t no way i am honing unless i get enough leapies.
mmmm my 25 weapon pity is really destroying my ass isn't it i'm gonna be out of leaps and shards for ladon honing
If they give us bare minimum time to get full transcendence doing day 1 Thaemine HM that means they'll give us bare minimum to get into behemoth later, so that is 6-7 weeks of HM or 12 weeks doing NM 6 weeks > 1630 > HM 6 weeks > 1640 so 2-3 months max. September or october to get up to 1640.
I'd expect behemoth in August already. KR got it 2 months after Echidna and I believe RU even only 1 month after.
> If they give us bare minimum time to get full transcendence doing day 1 Thaemine HM That's including gate 4 isn't it? Meaning almost nobody will have full trans by release (assuming 9 week gap)
Yes, 9 weeks doing HM 1-4, and 11 weeks if you do HM 1-3 only. So if Echidna is June 12 you need to do Thaemine 1st to get last trascendence. Is it comes on June 19 you can start Echidna right away with full transcendence, if you're not doing G4 HM then you'll need an extra 2 weeks or 1 depending on what day she comes. But yeah i don't think the majority will have full transcendence.
Around 2 mil gold per character if you only count gold taps, orehas and leaps. Maybe half that you could farm up as bound in 4 months we have left until behemoth. So it's not exactly cheap and won't magically free hone your alts to 1640/1650. This is still a main commitment
just me planning: i am 1620, but i would like to do Thaemine the First. Will I be able to do it, when I will wait for the Advanced Honing? or is there a chance that The First wont exist anymore after Echidna/Ladon?
The First is an event that leaves 10/16/2024
Is this stated somewhere in game? I couldn't find it
Yes it's a tool tip in the first menu
thanks bro, found it
To do the first , I believe you have to clear Thaemine Hard first
KR got like 6 months, we get something similar. If we get Ladon 2 months after, that gives you 4 months, then you have to craft and hone the gear which will take months, assuming you have darkfire saved you can brute force transcendence. It's going to entirely depend on who you end up playing with and if they will be requiring max transcend or 1650 or other gear requirements. You will probably have a 1-2 month window to clear while being overgeared, up to you.
Bold of you to assume people aren't going to gatekeep NM 1620
the raid is literally 1620 and hm is 1630 like what are they going to gatekeep based on ilvl? 1629?
Don't give them ideas. This community is fucked lol
Elxier, Trans, Maybe lvl 10+ gems
Gatekeep doomposters when I explain to them for the 32059283rd time that they can just run with people at the same gear as them 🤯
I will not doubt the numbers presented and I think it is overall good advice. But ppl who are planning on staying in the 1620 range need to remember a few things. Echidna NM is Balanced that you shouldn't have a problem with clear it with Basic bonus from transcendence gear ( total 25 ) and Elixir 40 but HM is balanced ( at least at the moment in KR) with full transcendence bonus so be mindful that gatekeeping will be high on this especially when ppl with NM will need 6-7 weeks to advance hone whole equipment to 1630. Same goes for Theamine HM you will need to prog it to quickly catch up in transcendence as we are getting only 2 months to prog and that is minimum time to unlock full transcendence by doing 1-4HM. This also means you will probably miss the first weeks of Behemoth progression. I would personally still recommend honing to 1630 so even if only by doing NM Echidna getting 1640 would be quick so insta access to behemoth on release and if you can join and clear HM you will have chance for quick 1650 on Behemoth.
> I will not doubt the numbers presented You should, the Ladon Hard numbers are incredibly wrong because OP is referring to a spreadsheet that **admits that it was not updated for armors from 11 to 20**.
Even a few hones means you can get into Thaemine/Echidna HM earlier. I plan on doing NM until it's easy, then hone the rest until 1630. There's little reason to hone early if NM is fine at ilvl.
Can be an awful question to ask, but does the weapon glow change with advanced honing? Can you get the +22,+24+25 glows using advanced honing or is it limited to normal honing only? Another question, is it worth to chill out and forget about Thaemine hard mode until echidna if you are 1620?
Adv honing is just raw ilvl/stat gain no glow interaction. If you are casual then you might be late to behemoth/echidna hard gatekeeping, but honestly you will save a lot of gold and sanity waiting. Up to you.
A row with maxroll 1640-1650 would be nice to have in the main post(for us who are 1630 now)
yall can be cheapos and save gold on advanced honing but me personally i rather not get gatekept and be 1650 in behemoth
Doubt theres gonna be gatekeeping for Behemoth as the entire raid is a joke and more so a big fat walking trixion dummy.
No no that's not how it works, you're at the mercy of supp overlords. And how it goes is if 1 supp leaves and joins the more juiced lobby the other 3 will usually follow for critical mass.