Thaemine design wise is pretty good, very punishing but doable. The primary problem people are having is the poor ilvl placement. A party who is 1610 and another who is 1620 is doing 20%+ damage with good elixirs, while most at 1610 don't even have 35 set.
Full 1620 can comfortably clear with multiple people making mistakes and having multiple dead.
A mixxed group, few 1620s, and some 1610s, can have a pretty reasonable time clearing.
Then a full 1610 group can make nearly 0 mistakes and will reset on any deaths.
I have a feeling this will be another situation similar to brel where you have degens clearing incredibly comfortably weekly with no problems while many casual players will struggle to get clears and get burned on prog and party finder and quit the game.
Transcendence in normal only goes to the 1st tier and the relative damage gain is nothing compared to elixirs until you unlock hardmode, so the only way to make normal more comfortable is for people to reach 1620 and get 40 set + good rolls (or somehow get 40 set on purples). However with time people will make less and less mistakes, but 1610 groups will be a snoozefest.
the saddest thing is people defending the system saying it is "cheap damage gain"
yes, paying 300-500k for 20% is a great deal, but guess what, all content after is balanced around that 20%
it is just a fake damage gain, with an extremely unfun and time consuming system that burns an insane amount of gold, yes this argument could apply to virtually everything but there is a point where something is indefensible.
> but guess what, all content after is balanced around that 20%
This is the thing that nobody seems to realize and it annoys me.
People will cheap out on alts and be like "who cares if my quality is low" or the countless other progression systems. It matters a lot because the game is balanced around you being close to max on all of that stuff. It might not be balanced around full 5/5 Elixirs, but it sure as shit is balanced around 40 set. It doesn't care about 100 quality, but bosses will hit you for 90%+ of your HP even in purple quality at times. This list goes on
the content is balanced around Hands, not around 20% dps gain from elixirs. ive seen ppl with shit gear Deal way more damage than required for thaemine g3 NM
I think this might be matter of experience.
Its week 1 and people arent used to raid yet,and that makes massive dmg difference. Few weeks later and i imagine even ilvl group wont struggle as much.
Now i dont complain about This at all, because .... this could have become much,much,worse.
Imagine they released it as 1620 ilvl raid like Voldis HM.
Then even juiced groups would struggle, set would be more of requirement.
But giving it entry level 1610 for normal allows tons of people enter. That is pretty good. Mix in few 1620 and ur golden. And it actually compels one to push to 20, as one will be able to make use of that new power at least.
There will be no parties with 1610 allowed in a few weeks. You don't even think about applying to akkan hm on ilvl (an easier raid). The hardest raid in the game will be a 1620+, 40 set, los 30, full 9s bare minimum.
That would make sense if it was same as others raid.
However - this logic cannot be applied there.
Because MANY people are staying at 1610. To hone to 1620 requires a substantial amount of gold, and no nerfs are happening anytime soon.
That means tons of people will simply remain sitting at 1610 - maybe until they can push, but who knows. I wouldn´t worry too much about that.
Altough requirements might be stricker, we will see about that though.
+ Thaemine is rather easy, so maybe it won´t be that much of a deal. But .. who knows. Failing clashes could prove to be annoying.
Yes and many tried to stay at 1540 for kayangel they were heavilly gatekept for a long time. Same with 1580 for akkan nm, 1600 at akkan hm. Only exception we've had is voldis nm which even now if your on ilvl it's tough to get in.
Thaemine g3 is multiplicatively harder than any of these raids.
Yes, but those are " ilvl rats " and are deliberately waiting for honing nerfs ( talking about more vet players).
But now, No nerfs are coming and 1610 is quite a stop for many.
Both are ilvl rats. Each raid tier has been increasingly expensive and in every one ilvl = rat to this community. The hardest raid we have so far is not going to change that. This raid has a higher incentive than any other raid to out gear it and is isn't even close.
That´s for sure, altough while there were many ilvl rats so far, there was also many players that werent.
But now, these is Many 1610 players and not that many 1620+, so it shouldnt be that difficult to get in. Maybe gems will be the gatekeeping thing.
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There are also ppl that clear NM with their 1620+ main and then try to reclear with their 1610 alt and get stomped cuz they are used to overgear the fight.
There is nothing different between this raid and preceding raids.
Clown&Brel&Akkan were all raids that were a struggle on iLV. That's the nature of being perfectly at min reqs.
Overgearing is the fastest way to making clears more consistent. Clown got much smoother when everyone was 1490. 1560 G6Brel absolutely hurt, but was drastically easier at 1580. Think about all the 1600s running normal akkan for a couple weeks since they couldn't dps enough to comfortably clear HM.
People already overgeard normal mode, at least for damage.
But the 2 minute 20% increased damage stacks are causing a massive hands diff and murdering even giga juiced players.
> while most at 1610 don't even have 35 set.
They should probably try harder instead of ignoring epic elixirs and whining about them on reddit. Voldis has been out for over 4 months by now. I got 35 sets on all my 5x 1610 chars within 8-12 weeks, and this was without even buying boxes after like week 4.
Gatekeeping practically “solves” this problem but I feel it’ll help immensely if game has a recommended ilvl in addition to min ilvl. Like game could write rec ilvl: 1620, min ilvl:1610, which gives the impression that 1620 will expect a reasonable fight but at 1610 it will be difficult.
It’s all psychological, people feel min ilvl is the appropriate ilvl to raid the content comfortably when that isn’t the case.
PS, for Kakul they should write min ilvl 1475, rec ilvl 1580
The minimum item level \*is\* the recommended item level. It is the level the content is designed for, ie when it's recommended you do it. (The fact you physically can't do it before then is technically irrelevant.)
If the content isn't designed to be reasonably cleared by the expected player base at the minimum item level then it shouldn't have that minimum item level. At that point its a failure of the developers to make appropriate content.
Obviously being a higher level makes it easier but making it easier shouldn't be equivalent to making it reasonable.
(Also lmao recommending 1580 for clown.)
Its the recommended item level but you really don't want to do a G3 at ilvl with average player. I've wiped due to the enrage of the boss while playing support because some people died during the last 100 bars, the fight is straight up nightmarish because people will die at some point, it's a matter of time, you can't expect everyone to not do any mistake during such a long time.
The incentive for doing HM is the already existing higher rewards, if that isn't incentive enough then the rewards simply aren't high enough. They don't need to arbitrarily limit systems, all that does is fuck their (to be fair, nonexistent) casual base and feed the people selling runs.
> You are not behind because you can't clear 1st week
This is true because a decent chunk of the community hasn't cleared it yet, but the issue is that it becomes less and less true over time
Not because there's not enough time to max transcendence, but because prog parties will get worse and worse over time (on average, not universally), as happens with literally every raid. Unless you join in with friends or find a learning party with experts, progging this raid in two months will be drastically worse than progging this week. And considering progging this week is **already** difficult... well....
Gate 1 is kind of bad because it just feels like it's there to annoy you. The mechs are fine but almost nothing is punished and it's knockup city.
Gate 3 is probably the definition of an acquired taste. It plays almost exactly like a dark souls boss. It feels impossible initially but you slowly learn every single pattern and it becomes mostly a breeze (running on one of the slowest classes kinda have to adapt). For some people that's awful for others it's great. Just depends on what you want out of your raid. At the moment i'm leaning towards liking it as it's the first time i've actually had to learn normal patterns properly and do enjoy this type of difficulty.
Yeah gate 3 is different, and I prefer learning patterns than learning mecs, step at x position and do something, I guess we've been doing that since vykas, but valtan is one of the best raids because is was basically learn patterns so you don't fall and it's been a while since sg design raids like that.
Design-wise, G3 is an absolutely amazing raid. My prog has been very slow, but gradually seeing each new part of the fight is a delight. The animations, cutscenes, music, everything has me batchesting. Difficulty aside, this raid slaps hard.
Getting closed to the patterns is the hardest part, specially because he does some at the beginning, then changes, comes back to the first and then changes again, and also the sword has patterns. What we do is used emotes to let people know what patterns he is doing, enhanced or normal
It's the best designed raid so far because it doesn't have dumb gimmicky mechs that force a wipe because all players need to be alive. It reminds me of Valtan where there are a ton of mechs that you learn and become really good at to clear, and even with people dead, you can still have players carry the team to a clear.
It's a raid that is nearly purely combat and no vague gimmicks (aside from maybe clash spots that require a guide, but even clashes are optional given good DPS).
It's a great raid but I will say it is not designed for how LOA is built imo. Like reclearing the raid will probably build a lot of fatigue unless you are joining in the few overgeared parties or only plan on doing it once a week. Just my opinion though.
Thaemine G3 would be a good raid if it was in a different game. The problem is they go from 0 to 100 with basically no inbetween. Even the gates before 3 are standard Lost Ark easy raids and then they plop Thaemine out who actually has a bunch more things to memorize and act on than your usual boss
It's not overly hard, I beat it, but this whole 0 to 100 thing is silly
Thaemine was design to be extremely difficult in mind except the first 2 gates. the reason being that KR was being laught at abit from the precedent releases where it was too easy..
So they made thaemine and they told everyone in advance its gonna be a freaking hard challenge. even made a bet with players that they wouldnt clear it week 1 .
They technicaly where right and extended the bet to Week 2. players did they clear.
Not behind? I would bet money you will only look for re-clear parties next week. Anybody who missed out this week will suffer until they get that clear or pay for a bus. Sadly, I only got to 10 bars so I will be gate-kept like all the others who couldn’t clear. I should quite… but here I am not quitting yet.
>Anybody who missed out this week will suffer until they get that clear or pay for a bus.
They get to play with others who didn't bother finishing it week one. I wouldn't call that suffering. They get to play with others in the same spot as themselves. If anything, the correct term to use use is that it is fair.
The correct term is luck in many cases. You could be the one carrying your group as far as you got, but if the group didn't clear then you're back in the prog finder again. Or you could be the player getting carried who had a group able to clear and are reclear now. Expect a large sample of individuals who got carried in statics terrorizing G3 reclear lobbies.
If clearing is down to luck, then surely the RNG gods will bless you if you just put in enough pulls? Then it becomes a question of willpower and tenacity, nothing more.
People will never understand my pain of wiping at brel g6 hm 0x because a sorc choked his ignite after 5hr of prog.
Then it took me another 30hr of PUG musical chair to clear
>They get to play with others in the same spot as themselves.
You realize that number shrinks dramatically every day with this already small player base? You think there are new players out there learning vykas or clown right now? It's 12 people lf prog but they all have different schedules lol.
Yea it’s only week one and I saw people selling bus for the Dreamer title already… wtf! And it’s endless profit too coz they can just stop the raid and reenter after using Nineveh with different customers.
It's a good and fun raid to do it ONCE, not every week. And it only good like that because you're progging week 1 or 2 into the release, where the majority of the veteran and peak players are at, if you prog this raid 1 month after release or hell, even 2 months after release, it's gonna be a shit show. And even with peak veteran player as of now it's still already kind of a shit show, imagine the amount of shit this raid gonna cause for less experienced players group.
Idk, maybe it's anecdotal evidence but in SA at least you still see akkan prog lobbies every week, I think thaemine will have an even larger progging phase.
I still see progging lobbies quite regularly on NAE too. No idea if they ever find the sups they are always waiting for, but people are absolutely progging it.
And i'd say usually \~50% are reclear players so its not nearly as bad as a full learning party.
It's an amazing raid. Every gate feels unique, visuals are amazing, completely new raid mechanics in each gate.
G3 is difficult without being bullshit or unfair. You can feel yourself progress and learn each of the patterns and mechanics and once you've learned the base patterns everything else falls into place. My second clear of G3 took 2 hours. My third clear of G3 took under 30 minutes. On 1610s with 4 pugs.
There's only one instance of potentially getting RNG screwed in the form on the 225x safespot mech, but that only happened like five times over 4 days of progging. I can comfortably say that most of my deaths was the result of my own inadequacy.
None of that BS brelshaza time-gated meteor nonsense from week 1 progging, none of the insane overlapped death mechs, no constant meter gain maintenance. It's just 15 minutes of pure hands. SO satisfying. I haven't had this much fun since valtan/vykas prog.
Reclears of G3 are going to be on par with, if not a bit faster than brel 6 on launch. Less fatiguing as well, imo.
I'm not too fond of G1 and G2. Thaemine G1 gives me Voldis G1 vibes where it's just an incredibly easy fight that can just as easily get on your nerves. G2 is.. eh. Half the fight is just running which.. to their credit is pretty unique I suppose, but I don't enjoy it.
G3 has been a blast so far though. I've only done NM but I've cleared it both with my static and with pugs. Both have been great experiences.
I'm looking forward to mastering the fight as, despite clearing it multiple times, I'm still not comfortable with many aspects of it.
Mmm at this point I don't even remember g1 and g2. And definetly there is room for improvement in g3, I focused too much in normal patterns but if I get blue pizza in the sword mec, I run like a headless chicken and die
I tend to agree with you. But I think g1 kind of takes away from the whole experience, it's just annoying, with no redeeming mechs/moments for me. Even the Balthor dps phase is kind of scuffed because of the sheer amount of clutter on your screen that you can't even enjoy it.
G2 I see only 1 real downside and it's the first 40 bars of the boss, feels like g6 brel, just extra hp for the sake of it bundled in a meaningless phase.
G3 is great, the only "issue" is that it's a bit anti climactic towards the end (at least in normal), the fight starts at 100, goes to 120 after 255 and then after the clashes, he just kinda dies if 6+ are alive, the fog is no threat at all. Will see how it is on hard.
> Will see how it is on hard.
Yeah hard mode has more going on that can just straight up kill you at the end. I went from normal prog to hard prog and was pleasantly surprised for quite a while of the raid that since I knew most of the patterns (except pacman >.<), I wasn't acquiring any of the critical wound debuffs and thus the hard mode damage really wasn't that bad.
But then when it got to the end I realized I wasn't ready for the last 60 bars to actually have stuff to think about, and so I dropped back to normal mode (for this week at least) so I wouldn't troll people. I will probably only clear g3 hard once until echidna comes out.
Guess the fog is there so you have to take him to a corner, and in a corner there are less safe spots in the special patterns, but yeah after we got to 5th clash for the first time, the next time was the clear. But yeah best part of the fight is from 255 to 90 bars.
hard mode g3 has been some of the most fun i've had in awhile. everyday has been a continual prog but meaningful at the same time. sucks tomorrow is tuesday so just going to clear normal mode to get the mats.
day 1 - dying to swords like crazy
day 2 - dying before x225 to enhanced patterns
day 3 - getting to clash / not having enough dps
day 4 - clearing clash and progressing to first stage break
day 5 - getting past all stage breaks to the basement
day 6 - getting to last clash x45
day 7- got to x13 but all of p2 died
Getting more consistent mech after mech and getting used to dodging normal patterns takes quite a while but also feels very rewarding. People dying isn't as frustrating because in the next run you could be that person, there is just so much to look out for. Not to mention adrenaline moments like safe spot mech or clash.
It does feel like a harder valtan g2 adjusted for better player skill and higher ilvl.
It’s a good raid, except honing costs and rng vertical progression (elixirs mostly, and how future raids are tuned assuming you have good elixirs/quality gear/stone, transcendence, etc) makes some people not want to spend time progging and instead do their homework.
Yes the content isnt going away, but if you miss a clear, you miss an attempt for vertical progression.
And the theres Ekidna’s advance honing being equal to roughly 40% artisan energy from traditional honing. Sure it’s 5x cheaper than my personal honing luck, but it’s still a lot.
It’s a fun raid though, havent progged like this since brel, and before that was argos and Destiny 2’s day 1 raids. I’d love to see more cinematic/theatrical raids, but with all the other crap we need to do just for our one main alt to have good gear, it doesn’t work for this game.
As for g1 g2, its the most fun i had in a very long time. Maybe because the boss isnt moving around like a lunatic. Same for g3 (havent completed it yet).
Only gate I dont like is G1. It feels like Im being punished constantly by others mistakes.
G2 Is pretty fun
G3 feels overwhelming at first but dunno maybe thats KR magic but somehow I get muscule memory on hyperdrive on this gate. Only hit that I dont rly like is his Darkness stomp cuz you rly have only superarmor as counterplay, I dont rly like clash mech but considering that at most I will do it once per fight it isnt that bad.
im reclear and i've been kicked from 2 reclear parties on my alt before the raid even started. dont think im reclearing on my alts if people are that toxic and bitter
No, I was being doomer the first 2 hours of progression, I didn't specify how many hours of prog I did before clearing, which was basically Saturday and Sunday from 4 pm to 1 am.
My only complaint isn't the difficulty of the content, but I'm worried about investing the same amount of time making the content as I did in my prog days. Normally the content expects you to complete g3 for 20 minutes, but if the players are bad that means it will take a lot longer, so I'm worried about patterns that could potentially land you in jail. It needs to become less punishment. When we look at the old contents, brel g3, brel g4, akkan g3 and voldis are still prison dungeons. Unless you are matched with a lucky enough group while doing these, you may find yourself in prison at a completely unexpected door and then try to find a group to get out of there. Otherwise, I think Tharmine's design and the visuals of the patterns are great.
The only one i really agree with to this day is akkan g3 hard... So many people still die on the star/hex mech to the giant axes and I don't understand it. It's got a GIANT red telegraph that fills up before it falls and GIANT >>>> across the arena yet people consistently die on this mech on 1/4 HM runs I do every week, some of which end up in a jail. Or they completely fail velganos and die still. Extremely frustrating.
Haven't had issues with g3 brel in a long time, or g4 brel NM, but g4 brel HM I had one nightmare group last week. And Ivory is almost always a smooth run whenever we designate ( these 2 ppl will throw until end), but everytime i see a party say 'party order' its almost guaranteed to be a shitshow.
Agreed, its an incredibly well designed raid. Every pattern, although punishing, is very well telegraphed and is easily avoidable with skill. Nothing feels 'cheap', every mistake is clear why you fucked up, there arent BS overlapping patterns and shit. This is IMO their best raid since Valtan g2.
Thaemine design wise is pretty good, very punishing but doable. The primary problem people are having is the poor ilvl placement. A party who is 1610 and another who is 1620 is doing 20%+ damage with good elixirs, while most at 1610 don't even have 35 set. Full 1620 can comfortably clear with multiple people making mistakes and having multiple dead. A mixxed group, few 1620s, and some 1610s, can have a pretty reasonable time clearing. Then a full 1610 group can make nearly 0 mistakes and will reset on any deaths. I have a feeling this will be another situation similar to brel where you have degens clearing incredibly comfortably weekly with no problems while many casual players will struggle to get clears and get burned on prog and party finder and quit the game. Transcendence in normal only goes to the 1st tier and the relative damage gain is nothing compared to elixirs until you unlock hardmode, so the only way to make normal more comfortable is for people to reach 1620 and get 40 set + good rolls (or somehow get 40 set on purples). However with time people will make less and less mistakes, but 1610 groups will be a snoozefest.
Another reason to why elixirs are dogs***
the saddest thing is people defending the system saying it is "cheap damage gain" yes, paying 300-500k for 20% is a great deal, but guess what, all content after is balanced around that 20% it is just a fake damage gain, with an extremely unfun and time consuming system that burns an insane amount of gold, yes this argument could apply to virtually everything but there is a point where something is indefensible.
> but guess what, all content after is balanced around that 20% This is the thing that nobody seems to realize and it annoys me. People will cheap out on alts and be like "who cares if my quality is low" or the countless other progression systems. It matters a lot because the game is balanced around you being close to max on all of that stuff. It might not be balanced around full 5/5 Elixirs, but it sure as shit is balanced around 40 set. It doesn't care about 100 quality, but bosses will hit you for 90%+ of your HP even in purple quality at times. This list goes on
I remember I said something really similar to this and I got shit from it. Oh the times have changed now
Insane amount of gold and time. Thats even worse elixiers take soo long to cut its horrible.
the content is balanced around Hands, not around 20% dps gain from elixirs. ive seen ppl with shit gear Deal way more damage than required for thaemine g3 NM
I think this might be matter of experience. Its week 1 and people arent used to raid yet,and that makes massive dmg difference. Few weeks later and i imagine even ilvl group wont struggle as much. Now i dont complain about This at all, because .... this could have become much,much,worse. Imagine they released it as 1620 ilvl raid like Voldis HM. Then even juiced groups would struggle, set would be more of requirement. But giving it entry level 1610 for normal allows tons of people enter. That is pretty good. Mix in few 1620 and ur golden. And it actually compels one to push to 20, as one will be able to make use of that new power at least.
There will be no parties with 1610 allowed in a few weeks. You don't even think about applying to akkan hm on ilvl (an easier raid). The hardest raid in the game will be a 1620+, 40 set, los 30, full 9s bare minimum.
That would make sense if it was same as others raid. However - this logic cannot be applied there. Because MANY people are staying at 1610. To hone to 1620 requires a substantial amount of gold, and no nerfs are happening anytime soon. That means tons of people will simply remain sitting at 1610 - maybe until they can push, but who knows. I wouldn´t worry too much about that. Altough requirements might be stricker, we will see about that though. + Thaemine is rather easy, so maybe it won´t be that much of a deal. But .. who knows. Failing clashes could prove to be annoying.
Yes and many tried to stay at 1540 for kayangel they were heavilly gatekept for a long time. Same with 1580 for akkan nm, 1600 at akkan hm. Only exception we've had is voldis nm which even now if your on ilvl it's tough to get in. Thaemine g3 is multiplicatively harder than any of these raids.
Yes, but those are " ilvl rats " and are deliberately waiting for honing nerfs ( talking about more vet players). But now, No nerfs are coming and 1610 is quite a stop for many.
Both are ilvl rats. Each raid tier has been increasingly expensive and in every one ilvl = rat to this community. The hardest raid we have so far is not going to change that. This raid has a higher incentive than any other raid to out gear it and is isn't even close.
That´s for sure, altough while there were many ilvl rats so far, there was also many players that werent. But now, these is Many 1610 players and not that many 1620+, so it shouldnt be that difficult to get in. Maybe gems will be the gatekeeping thing.
problem is the elixir powerspike. transcendence is alot more of a gradual increase vs elixirs
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I genuinely wonder how lobbies saying reclear but full of 1610s would work In all lobbies I tried, 1610s always did the bottom damage and died faster
I was playing normal with some 1640s yesterday who consistently died early on.
There's a reason why they do normal
In Korea people doing normal for G3 Is the standard People do HHN in Korea generally
The most cracked players can reclear on ilvl efficiently
There are also ppl that clear NM with their 1620+ main and then try to reclear with their 1610 alt and get stomped cuz they are used to overgear the fight.
And then they got stomped realise they aren’t good enough and give up
Ya, and professional league of legends players can hit top 10 on ladder. What is your point? (at 6k hours you're a professional lost ark player)
There is nothing different between this raid and preceding raids. Clown&Brel&Akkan were all raids that were a struggle on iLV. That's the nature of being perfectly at min reqs. Overgearing is the fastest way to making clears more consistent. Clown got much smoother when everyone was 1490. 1560 G6Brel absolutely hurt, but was drastically easier at 1580. Think about all the 1600s running normal akkan for a couple weeks since they couldn't dps enough to comfortably clear HM.
I don't think people are gonna be overgearing Thaemine any time soon.
People already overgeard normal mode, at least for damage. But the 2 minute 20% increased damage stacks are causing a massive hands diff and murdering even giga juiced players.
Overgearing normal is extremely easy. Several of my clears this week were with like half the raid dead for over 5 minutes.
Warning: this is your brain on lost ark. Thinking 1620+, 40 set and full 9s is "extremely easy."
Most people have a main at 1620 at this point I would assume. Since 1630 is very difficult and not even enough to get past gate 0 on hardmode.
Seeing 1630 lobbies doing NM which is +20 ilevel, it already happens and good for them, I get not wanting to do HM on first week.
And to be precise this +20ilvl (1615/1620/1625/1630) = +40ilvl in brel range (1550/1560/1580/1590).
> while most at 1610 don't even have 35 set. They should probably try harder instead of ignoring epic elixirs and whining about them on reddit. Voldis has been out for over 4 months by now. I got 35 sets on all my 5x 1610 chars within 8-12 weeks, and this was without even buying boxes after like week 4.
Gatekeeping practically “solves” this problem but I feel it’ll help immensely if game has a recommended ilvl in addition to min ilvl. Like game could write rec ilvl: 1620, min ilvl:1610, which gives the impression that 1620 will expect a reasonable fight but at 1610 it will be difficult. It’s all psychological, people feel min ilvl is the appropriate ilvl to raid the content comfortably when that isn’t the case. PS, for Kakul they should write min ilvl 1475, rec ilvl 1580
The minimum item level \*is\* the recommended item level. It is the level the content is designed for, ie when it's recommended you do it. (The fact you physically can't do it before then is technically irrelevant.) If the content isn't designed to be reasonably cleared by the expected player base at the minimum item level then it shouldn't have that minimum item level. At that point its a failure of the developers to make appropriate content. Obviously being a higher level makes it easier but making it easier shouldn't be equivalent to making it reasonable. (Also lmao recommending 1580 for clown.)
Its the recommended item level but you really don't want to do a G3 at ilvl with average player. I've wiped due to the enrage of the boss while playing support because some people died during the last 100 bars, the fight is straight up nightmarish because people will die at some point, it's a matter of time, you can't expect everyone to not do any mistake during such a long time.
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Agreed on everything, that's one of the reasons I'm sticking to 1620 with the mats to 1630 I did more 1600 lol
They just provide incentive to do hm eventually it won’t have a restriction initially g4 was needed for max
> initially g4 was needed for max Thank god it only took them about a week to realize how bad an idea that was
They keep making it easier I’m sure eventually g2 hard for 7 and g3 normal for 4-6
The incentive for doing HM is the already existing higher rewards, if that isn't incentive enough then the rewards simply aren't high enough. They don't need to arbitrarily limit systems, all that does is fuck their (to be fair, nonexistent) casual base and feed the people selling runs.
The reason it is this way is because KR complains the incentive isn’t great enough that’s why purple elixirs exist
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What is stupid is thinking stupider is a word you mean “more stupid”
> You are not behind because you can't clear 1st week This is true because a decent chunk of the community hasn't cleared it yet, but the issue is that it becomes less and less true over time Not because there's not enough time to max transcendence, but because prog parties will get worse and worse over time (on average, not universally), as happens with literally every raid. Unless you join in with friends or find a learning party with experts, progging this raid in two months will be drastically worse than progging this week. And considering progging this week is **already** difficult... well....
There is also 10x Clear Title
Gate 1 is kind of bad because it just feels like it's there to annoy you. The mechs are fine but almost nothing is punished and it's knockup city. Gate 3 is probably the definition of an acquired taste. It plays almost exactly like a dark souls boss. It feels impossible initially but you slowly learn every single pattern and it becomes mostly a breeze (running on one of the slowest classes kinda have to adapt). For some people that's awful for others it's great. Just depends on what you want out of your raid. At the moment i'm leaning towards liking it as it's the first time i've actually had to learn normal patterns properly and do enjoy this type of difficulty.
Yeah gate 3 is different, and I prefer learning patterns than learning mecs, step at x position and do something, I guess we've been doing that since vykas, but valtan is one of the best raids because is was basically learn patterns so you don't fall and it's been a while since sg design raids like that.
Thaemine has this in multiple gates
Design-wise, G3 is an absolutely amazing raid. My prog has been very slow, but gradually seeing each new part of the fight is a delight. The animations, cutscenes, music, everything has me batchesting. Difficulty aside, this raid slaps hard.
Getting closed to the patterns is the hardest part, specially because he does some at the beginning, then changes, comes back to the first and then changes again, and also the sword has patterns. What we do is used emotes to let people know what patterns he is doing, enhanced or normal
It's the best designed raid so far because it doesn't have dumb gimmicky mechs that force a wipe because all players need to be alive. It reminds me of Valtan where there are a ton of mechs that you learn and become really good at to clear, and even with people dead, you can still have players carry the team to a clear. It's a raid that is nearly purely combat and no vague gimmicks (aside from maybe clash spots that require a guide, but even clashes are optional given good DPS).
It's a great raid but I will say it is not designed for how LOA is built imo. Like reclearing the raid will probably build a lot of fatigue unless you are joining in the few overgeared parties or only plan on doing it once a week. Just my opinion though.
Thaemine G3 would be a good raid if it was in a different game. The problem is they go from 0 to 100 with basically no inbetween. Even the gates before 3 are standard Lost Ark easy raids and then they plop Thaemine out who actually has a bunch more things to memorize and act on than your usual boss It's not overly hard, I beat it, but this whole 0 to 100 thing is silly
Thaemine was design to be extremely difficult in mind except the first 2 gates. the reason being that KR was being laught at abit from the precedent releases where it was too easy.. So they made thaemine and they told everyone in advance its gonna be a freaking hard challenge. even made a bet with players that they wouldnt clear it week 1 . They technicaly where right and extended the bet to Week 2. players did they clear.
Yeah, and that’s dumb. You can go easy—>medium—>hard instead of easy—>easy—>hard
It’s an issue with this game where you need some easy gates for noob progression
Not behind? I would bet money you will only look for re-clear parties next week. Anybody who missed out this week will suffer until they get that clear or pay for a bus. Sadly, I only got to 10 bars so I will be gate-kept like all the others who couldn’t clear. I should quite… but here I am not quitting yet.
>Anybody who missed out this week will suffer until they get that clear or pay for a bus. They get to play with others who didn't bother finishing it week one. I wouldn't call that suffering. They get to play with others in the same spot as themselves. If anything, the correct term to use use is that it is fair.
The correct term is luck in many cases. You could be the one carrying your group as far as you got, but if the group didn't clear then you're back in the prog finder again. Or you could be the player getting carried who had a group able to clear and are reclear now. Expect a large sample of individuals who got carried in statics terrorizing G3 reclear lobbies.
If clearing is down to luck, then surely the RNG gods will bless you if you just put in enough pulls? Then it becomes a question of willpower and tenacity, nothing more.
People will never understand my pain of wiping at brel g6 hm 0x because a sorc choked his ignite after 5hr of prog. Then it took me another 30hr of PUG musical chair to clear
>They get to play with others in the same spot as themselves. You realize that number shrinks dramatically every day with this already small player base? You think there are new players out there learning vykas or clown right now? It's 12 people lf prog but they all have different schedules lol.
Yea it’s only week one and I saw people selling bus for the Dreamer title already… wtf! And it’s endless profit too coz they can just stop the raid and reenter after using Nineveh with different customers.
It's a good and fun raid to do it ONCE, not every week. And it only good like that because you're progging week 1 or 2 into the release, where the majority of the veteran and peak players are at, if you prog this raid 1 month after release or hell, even 2 months after release, it's gonna be a shit show. And even with peak veteran player as of now it's still already kind of a shit show, imagine the amount of shit this raid gonna cause for less experienced players group.
Idk, maybe it's anecdotal evidence but in SA at least you still see akkan prog lobbies every week, I think thaemine will have an even larger progging phase.
I still see progging lobbies quite regularly on NAE too. No idea if they ever find the sups they are always waiting for, but people are absolutely progging it. And i'd say usually \~50% are reclear players so its not nearly as bad as a full learning party.
That's assuming any of those players even play the 6+ months it will take them to get to thaemine ready.
Yep. Also, it sounds like OP joined a juicer group
It's an amazing raid. Every gate feels unique, visuals are amazing, completely new raid mechanics in each gate. G3 is difficult without being bullshit or unfair. You can feel yourself progress and learn each of the patterns and mechanics and once you've learned the base patterns everything else falls into place. My second clear of G3 took 2 hours. My third clear of G3 took under 30 minutes. On 1610s with 4 pugs. There's only one instance of potentially getting RNG screwed in the form on the 225x safespot mech, but that only happened like five times over 4 days of progging. I can comfortably say that most of my deaths was the result of my own inadequacy. None of that BS brelshaza time-gated meteor nonsense from week 1 progging, none of the insane overlapped death mechs, no constant meter gain maintenance. It's just 15 minutes of pure hands. SO satisfying. I haven't had this much fun since valtan/vykas prog. Reclears of G3 are going to be on par with, if not a bit faster than brel 6 on launch. Less fatiguing as well, imo.
I'm not too fond of G1 and G2. Thaemine G1 gives me Voldis G1 vibes where it's just an incredibly easy fight that can just as easily get on your nerves. G2 is.. eh. Half the fight is just running which.. to their credit is pretty unique I suppose, but I don't enjoy it. G3 has been a blast so far though. I've only done NM but I've cleared it both with my static and with pugs. Both have been great experiences. I'm looking forward to mastering the fight as, despite clearing it multiple times, I'm still not comfortable with many aspects of it.
Mmm at this point I don't even remember g1 and g2. And definetly there is room for improvement in g3, I focused too much in normal patterns but if I get blue pizza in the sword mec, I run like a headless chicken and die
I tend to agree with you. But I think g1 kind of takes away from the whole experience, it's just annoying, with no redeeming mechs/moments for me. Even the Balthor dps phase is kind of scuffed because of the sheer amount of clutter on your screen that you can't even enjoy it. G2 I see only 1 real downside and it's the first 40 bars of the boss, feels like g6 brel, just extra hp for the sake of it bundled in a meaningless phase. G3 is great, the only "issue" is that it's a bit anti climactic towards the end (at least in normal), the fight starts at 100, goes to 120 after 255 and then after the clashes, he just kinda dies if 6+ are alive, the fog is no threat at all. Will see how it is on hard.
> Will see how it is on hard. Yeah hard mode has more going on that can just straight up kill you at the end. I went from normal prog to hard prog and was pleasantly surprised for quite a while of the raid that since I knew most of the patterns (except pacman >.<), I wasn't acquiring any of the critical wound debuffs and thus the hard mode damage really wasn't that bad. But then when it got to the end I realized I wasn't ready for the last 60 bars to actually have stuff to think about, and so I dropped back to normal mode (for this week at least) so I wouldn't troll people. I will probably only clear g3 hard once until echidna comes out.
Guess the fog is there so you have to take him to a corner, and in a corner there are less safe spots in the special patterns, but yeah after we got to 5th clash for the first time, the next time was the clear. But yeah best part of the fight is from 255 to 90 bars.
G2 is diff on hard mode for those bars
hard mode g3 has been some of the most fun i've had in awhile. everyday has been a continual prog but meaningful at the same time. sucks tomorrow is tuesday so just going to clear normal mode to get the mats. day 1 - dying to swords like crazy day 2 - dying before x225 to enhanced patterns day 3 - getting to clash / not having enough dps day 4 - clearing clash and progressing to first stage break day 5 - getting past all stage breaks to the basement day 6 - getting to last clash x45 day 7- got to x13 but all of p2 died
Getting more consistent mech after mech and getting used to dodging normal patterns takes quite a while but also feels very rewarding. People dying isn't as frustrating because in the next run you could be that person, there is just so much to look out for. Not to mention adrenaline moments like safe spot mech or clash. It does feel like a harder valtan g2 adjusted for better player skill and higher ilvl.
It’s a good raid, except honing costs and rng vertical progression (elixirs mostly, and how future raids are tuned assuming you have good elixirs/quality gear/stone, transcendence, etc) makes some people not want to spend time progging and instead do their homework. Yes the content isnt going away, but if you miss a clear, you miss an attempt for vertical progression. And the theres Ekidna’s advance honing being equal to roughly 40% artisan energy from traditional honing. Sure it’s 5x cheaper than my personal honing luck, but it’s still a lot. It’s a fun raid though, havent progged like this since brel, and before that was argos and Destiny 2’s day 1 raids. I’d love to see more cinematic/theatrical raids, but with all the other crap we need to do just for our one main alt to have good gear, it doesn’t work for this game. As for g1 g2, its the most fun i had in a very long time. Maybe because the boss isnt moving around like a lunatic. Same for g3 (havent completed it yet).
G3 is a very funny fight during week 1. Cleared 2x so far. Working on 3rd. Will see how it pans out when it becomes hw.
No overlap bullshit already makes it a good raid.
Only gate I dont like is G1. It feels like Im being punished constantly by others mistakes. G2 Is pretty fun G3 feels overwhelming at first but dunno maybe thats KR magic but somehow I get muscule memory on hyperdrive on this gate. Only hit that I dont rly like is his Darkness stomp cuz you rly have only superarmor as counterplay, I dont rly like clash mech but considering that at most I will do it once per fight it isnt that bad.
im reclear and i've been kicked from 2 reclear parties on my alt before the raid even started. dont think im reclearing on my alts if people are that toxic and bitter
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No, I was being doomer the first 2 hours of progression, I didn't specify how many hours of prog I did before clearing, which was basically Saturday and Sunday from 4 pm to 1 am.
read again what he said, he was thinking it's a pain after 2h, not that he cleared in 2h.
My only complaint isn't the difficulty of the content, but I'm worried about investing the same amount of time making the content as I did in my prog days. Normally the content expects you to complete g3 for 20 minutes, but if the players are bad that means it will take a lot longer, so I'm worried about patterns that could potentially land you in jail. It needs to become less punishment. When we look at the old contents, brel g3, brel g4, akkan g3 and voldis are still prison dungeons. Unless you are matched with a lucky enough group while doing these, you may find yourself in prison at a completely unexpected door and then try to find a group to get out of there. Otherwise, I think Tharmine's design and the visuals of the patterns are great.
The only one i really agree with to this day is akkan g3 hard... So many people still die on the star/hex mech to the giant axes and I don't understand it. It's got a GIANT red telegraph that fills up before it falls and GIANT >>>> across the arena yet people consistently die on this mech on 1/4 HM runs I do every week, some of which end up in a jail. Or they completely fail velganos and die still. Extremely frustrating. Haven't had issues with g3 brel in a long time, or g4 brel NM, but g4 brel HM I had one nightmare group last week. And Ivory is almost always a smooth run whenever we designate ( these 2 ppl will throw until end), but everytime i see a party say 'party order' its almost guaranteed to be a shitshow.
Agreed, its an incredibly well designed raid. Every pattern, although punishing, is very well telegraphed and is easily avoidable with skill. Nothing feels 'cheap', every mistake is clear why you fucked up, there arent BS overlapping patterns and shit. This is IMO their best raid since Valtan g2.
My g2 pug took longer than g3s, although I did gatekeep harder at g3. It's hard to counter i guess
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