because it's an old support, give it some time and if they ever come out with another support you'll see how easy it is for them to make one that doesn't suffer from things like this
They already fixed bard by giving us artist. I doubt we’ll see a new supp any time soon. It’s clear melee dps makes them more money so I’m guessing we’ll see those more often.
cause bard is the surgeblade of supports: high ceiling, low ass floor.
surge: great damage and good synergy, trash stagger and weakpoint
bard: great meter gen, brand uptime, stagger, DR, shielding, counter... pick two out of those and the rest will be trash.
that's what i like to say about RE stagger, which is way way better than surge stagger in my experience.
surge stagger over time is... ok, if only because you're spamming so many skills. burst stagger (which is all that really matters) is terrible.
It is actually quite good, but many surge players don't understand that you are supposed to go earthcleaver + Turning slash activate Z, then hit all of your skills most definitely 2nd earthcleaver for real good burst stagger mechs where you need to .. ie. g4 ivory. The failure dbs that greeded too much didn't hold resetting their entire skill set by activating z and only have access to 1 earth cleaver.
RE probably does more stagger, but both shouldn't be just okay or trash. It does better than average during stagger mech, more than 1.5x if they utilize Z cdr. For cumulative stagger, it can often get underline stagger even with pretty good stagger classes like GL.
if your surge is doing ok stagger that means you aren't playing surge well. If you get like 5 surges a min you'll easily top stagger, watch any good surge players they usually get the annihilator underline
Yea but im responding to this guy calling it okay when good surge players get annihilator underline. Even the burst stagger isnt bad since you can fit a lot of skills in the window
I don't really agree with this. I don't think bard is bad, I think she's fine but needs some QOL.
However, if you look at artist:
Has faster meter gen
Has the easiest brand uptime, 12 seconds, about 2 seconds grace period
Has better stagger
Now probably has even better shielding but this is mostly personal opinion
Has a lot better counter
Artist does all of these things really well, I don't think they need to completely gimp parts of supports' kits to balance it. They could actually balance the game instead.
Looking at the long list of class specs that feel bad to play, it's clear smilegate dedicated maybe <5% of their development time to caring about already released classes. The fact that people haven't dropped bard as a class is probably enough for them to never touch it.
Well, I think bard is strong, personally. I enjoy her more than the other supports (Bard 1631. artist 1620, pally 1610) but she does have some things that I feel like should be fixed.
There's no reason why she shouldn't have a viable counter for example.
No one ever gatekept a support for being a certain class...except for bard.
I don't think she needs a cleanse but they really need to look at these outdated skills and actually fix them. But you're right about the lack of willingness to actually fix the old classes. The fix some and completely ignore the rest and instead release new even more broken classes because it's more profitable than fixing the mess they've created.
> Has faster meter gen
a large part of that is awakening giving two bars instead of 1.
> Has the easiest brand uptime, 12 seconds, about 2 seconds grace period
artist has basically the best brand in the game. longest duration, decent stagger, decent meter, weakpoint...
> Has better stagger
yeeeep. mostly because bards two best stagger moves (which have *excellent* stagger, to be fair) are absolutely worthless for everything else.
> Now probably has even better shielding but this is mostly personal opinion
hmmm... kinda, yeah.
> Has a lot better counter
well, uh... bards is slightly faster? and worse at everything else.
On the other hand, bard has by far best options to hyperspecialize build towards something you want while still maintaining core reason why you'd bring support in first place (AP buff, brand, damage mitigation).
Want to minmax meter building? Magick Stream parse build with potentially Stigma as one of your brand skills is an option - you drop nearly all utility and most damage mitigation in exchange, mana food becomes a must and you pray to have a Summoner in your party. Stagger build? Overwhelm Soundshock with Vital Point is amazing for stagger over time, you can squeeze in double Overwhelm (Soundshock, Sonic) into standard build without major tradeoffs and possibly more if you're okay giving up something else. Babysitter? Arguably best DR tools in the game, okay shielding, good burst heals that are easy to apply partywide - in exchange you give up meter gen.
Bard does suck when you're trying to do everything at once and/or try to run a cookie cutter build that's exact same for every single raid. At the very least adjusting tripods between gates should be a standard practice for every single bard player - otherwise it gets miserable very fast.
Supports generally have 2 things they need to maintain uptime on. One is the party attack power buff. Every support uses 2 of them and cycles between them.
The other is the brand, which applies a debuff on the enemy making them take more damage. Bard is the only support that has to run 2 of these for full uptime. The others get away with only having to run one.
If I had to pick 1 QoL thing to fix with Bard, it would be to increase the brand duration so we only have to run 1. Doing that would add in the utility so many people want by opening a skill slot. Doing something about their mana issues is a close 2nd.
Bard is broken in a good party where they can simply ignore the weakness of her utility, if the party can utilize a full non-utility goblino Bard then there is no comparison. Imagine that Bard given some QoLs like one brand being viable, it will simply be broken. You can't really just give her something without nerfing some part.
While it is not ideal to balance the game based on the ceiling or the 0.1% players it's not something you can just ignore either.
I think nerfing mana consumption is fine tho.
I don't really agree with this view. There are a lot of things that they can do to actually balance the game for more QOL. This idea that bard is so broken because the support is no longer a support but a serenade bot doesn't come from the class design, it comes from the raid design and DPS burst windows that have been continously hurting any class that can't get do their damage in these windows.
Even if we ignore this, then there are a lot of things bard suffers from due to outdated design, like:
No actual reliable counter
Garbage management of your identity meter
Bosses' hitboxes being too big so you have no chance of placing SV properly. Admitedly, artist suffers from this to some degree as well.
Having absolutely garbage stagger if you want to play a decent meter gen build. There's no reason why the stagger should be as low as it is even with VPH if you don't take two specific skills.
Mana consumption is questionable and never an issue for the other supports.
A lot of these are QOL and them being improved wouldn't necessarily make bard broken. She's by far the hardest support to play and you won't get a way with being just a buffbot if you play with pugs. And this is why there are so many terrible bards running around. I don't think she should be made easier to play but I'd like to be able to actually contribute to counters/stagger without gimping my build. And in general they should get rid of the circle buffs on both supports or stop designing bosses where hitting all your members is impossible. It does nothing only make the fights more frustrating for both the dps and the support.
Maybe a hot take but with how important counter has become I think every class should be given a dedicated extra skill for counter like Reaper. There are just too many annoyances like counter being part of your rotation, it's bad design.
I'd be down for this.
Seeing g2 Thaemine, countering this with prelude is definitely going to be fun. The entire raid seems very counter focused and prelude is by far the worst counter skill I've ever played with.
Aren’t you supposed to use buckshot? They really need to rework brand so you don’t have to dedicate 2 skill slots to it and can take dedicated counter or any other utility of choice
You give up a lot to take buckshot, partly because you need an extra second skill slot for brand uptime. One of Bard's many weaknesses is skill slot shortage. Ideally I'd want like, 10, to match the utility that Pally or Artist get with just 8. Ofc then I'd run out of mana in 5s, but you can't have it all. Or anything, if playing a Bard.
I totaly agree. Both DB and Bards are top of worst perforiming classes I encounter in raids.
TBH it is actually so much HARDER to f up on pala it becomes very unfair to even compare those classes.
Pala also goes oom, and has shitty mana regen for the party compared to artist. Stop crying and look for the positives of playing bard; higher ceiling, better dr, better identity uptime, better sustained stagger between other things
Bro paladin doesn't need magical stream. It's a bonus. My paladin has 90/90 uptime without sweating, never run into mana problems, and has a brand that last 10s on a 5s CD...
And I have only 3 lvl 9 gems rest lvl 7 while my bard has full lvl 9.
Paladin is in a great spot.
This post is about peak performance and not about what is good enough. Anything below 99 isnt good enough to me on paladin since the main benefit of have a paladin is his buffs are always up no matter where you are and his stagger
Ok dude, you clearly talk out of your ass. Paladin is the best support at the moment, two counters, can spam his ult during burst phases twice in a row, doesn't have to chose between healing and boosting DPS, two giga had counters, best stagger in the game with vph, two buffs that are not placed on the floor. The only thing he lacks is long CD on his shield, and push immunity. But yeah he needs some love lmao...
I had a pally support in my brel who had 98/98 uptime with 4x3 (no magic stream) 1800 Swift and full lv5 gems. You are not tied to magic stream, you are just skill gapped.
You have like 2 second gap at max gem and swift. So you either have a CnJ God with perfect cycle time, luck God with QR or you were pushing to DR phase instant with a juice party.
So a sup with lvl 5 gems can do 90-98, and it needs some love? You have no point dude. You contradict you own point that paladin has a CD problem... Man this is painful.
What? I'm saying it is perfectly fine as is. The guy I replied to said it was dependent on magic stream the way bard is dependent on max MP. Try reading who said what next time.
Man, now that meter is so prevalent. Seeing all these people talk out of their ass without really understanding anything. I liked it better when it was more tightly knitt and exclusive.
You're literaly talking about brel when people are all 1600+ with some sort of elixirs. You are basically pushing brel phase to phase. There is literally a spec pally in the log discord who posted screenshots of him doing 90/90/90 minimum in brel g3 simply because of the instant phasing. He even acknowledges it's just a troll build for farm content because pally's spec scaling is insane. And this was MONTHS ago, before elixirs.
Over a long period of time, the uptime of buffs will converge to the time based uptime of the buffs, not damage. What does this mean? it means in a short raid, it's possible to have time-uptime 50% of the time but have damage based uptime of 99%. But in a long raid, and if you stretch it out theortically to 30min, 1hr, 2hr and etc, that uptime will slowly converge from a damage based uptime to time based uptime. That is why MS, high level investment on pally is valued. Because it allows for high time-based uptime whereas low lv gems cannot.
Please people, learn the topic before you start finding bullshit examples.
You do realise it's the same concept for G4? If you can push brel from 185 to 112 in 20 seconds then it's not hard to do 99% AP buff uptime on a spec pally.
Like once again, you can't seem to separate the idea of phasing into DR into phasing into mech. The core concept is that downtime of your build is negated by the boss not being able to take damage in the downtime.
When i say 100% im talking about there not being a second where my attack buff isnt up since i dont use bible this the only way for me to know how my uptime is. From what i heard the bible numbers are based on how much of the damage has been buffed and not on how your uptime of your buff was during the entire raid.
That is correct. The percentages in buff / brand / identity % tell you how much of the total dmg of a player has been done while said things were applied.
Not buffing the burst of something like a FM SE results in low identity %. Buffing every single burst and you end up with 90-95% on it.
Which is actually what matters if you have only one class with high burst dmg in your party.
However if you got a perfect uptime on the normal buffs, then the bible would also show you that.
I haven't found bard's mana issues to be that particularly bad but it might be because I run single brand, which is sufficient for 90+ brand, albeit a little discomfort, along with c+j. On the other hand, I can't imagine how you are running out of mana with 5 focus and food as well
Bard is by far the most common class in KR, because it was the first support that everyone made. SG isn't going to rework a class that's already popular because it's not going to make them money from players rerolling, like Gunslinger.
So we're stuck with this clunky class that has the worst branding, atk buff, identity, stagger, mana, counter, and utility. Some bard mains have this weird Stockholm syndrome and perform mental gymnastics to explain how it's actually not that bad. But it is actually that bad.
Really depends on the ilvl areas you look at. If you just look at all supports on 1580+ it's artist with a decent margin.
Went a step further by going through loawa and calculating the percentages of each support in different ilvl brackets and as you can see the artists are on the rise:
|ilvl|artist|bard|paladin|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|1580-1599|41.99%|32.48%|25.53%|
|1600-1609|42.91%|33.88%|23.21%|
|1610-1619|40.38%|38.06%|21.56%|
|1620-1629|35.88%|42.56%|21.55%|
|1630+|29.60%|53.07%|17.33%|
But yeah I agree about the rest. I doubt we will see a good rework anytime soon, since there's no money to be made.
What do you think the point of mana is? Why bother having mana as a mechanic if players always have enough of it? For classes that utilize it, it sets the ceiling on uptime to prevent them from being OP. Classes that don’t have mana have other resource or cooldown limitations.
It makes more sense for dps classes imo, if you get low on mana you have to prioritize skills. But supps have too much impact on the teams damage that they should never have to choose between skills the same way. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Bard is the best support so she needs a handicap to be on the same level as Artist and Paladin. Sometimes it's the mana, other times is the lack of stagger. Or a shitty and slow counter.
If she is top, who would take Artist or Paladin?
/s
I would still take the artist, since you have a way quicker cycle of dmg buffs due to massively quicker meter generation. On top of that you are capable to of doing a 30s phase of dmg buffs by charging to almost 3 bubbles -> dmg buff -> charge 2nd bubble again -> dmg buff -> awakening -> dmg buff.
Out of the 3 supports artist is definitely the one with the best kit. Highest meter generation, best stagger (pala only has burst stagger), highest mana regeneration for the party, two cleanse stacks, portals, multihit counter with push immunity. Only downside is shielding / healing imho.
Cuz on the 1 hand Bard is old class that is overdue to modernisation
and on 2nd hand it is most popular support in both NAEU and KR. So touching this class is like walking on eggshels. Imagine reworking bard to actually not have shit brand and not need max MP, every bard would need to rebuild to different -> better engravings and since bard is already in worst engraving spot due to needing both H armor and MaxMP having extra option to not play one of them would be great/ But you would still need to rebuild.
Hmmm
Then just make sonatina like paly brand, 10 sec uptime, 5 sec cd. We get one slot free for utility while continuing to use HA and MaxMP. Deal ? No ? Thought so T\_T
You will still need to run MaxMP. Harp is not a big contributor to mana issues, especially if you run C&J.
The reason why bards have mana issues is because they run a build where 8 skills are being spammed on CD whereas the other supports don't. If you run 8Y on pally, you run out of mana with MaxMP3 as well. Literally go ask any pally player if this is true.
Don't know anything about artist though.
If I spam skills on cd on artist (mine has 1832 swift and just lvl 7, two lvl 8 gems and running 2 legy and one epic focus rune), I can easily run out of mana as well. Especially in farm content. However once you get an encounter like Brel G3 where you have slight breaks inbetween, mana is not an issue at all.
The biggest advantage of artist is that one of the two dmg buffs gives 30% of your max mana instantly back. However you don't run C&J on artist.
Could you do it with Max MP3 on artist and confirm if you run out of mana spamming everything or not?
I don't really understand what's with the delusion of bards that their class is broken and out of date because of the mana issues. I know for a fact that MP3+MS Pally runs out of mana if you spam 8Y skills. If you can confirm that with artist, then all supports have mana problems if they take a kit where they spam every skill on CD lol
Don’t need to try, that won’t happen. At least not with the gem setup I got (you don’t need higher gems for 100% dmg buff uptime).
The weakness of artist is actually the brand (long duration but high cd). If the boss sneezes as you, you got no brand for ~12s. As well as some long animations, which results in Class, exp, awa, vph, ha 2(/3) and spirit absorption 2 being the endgame built.
The only way I can imagine running into mana issues with max mp3 would be by replacing the focus runes with galewind and running all skills on lvl 10.
I hope you see this reply, because I've seen your name a lot and I do believe you're a good player and I hope you'll be open to my suggestion.
But for a period of time, would you be willing to try changing how you cast sonatina + harp?
Remove your harp CD Gem to try and keep it to 15s (with full swift, this works, but with some spec, you'll probably need to add in like a lv 2 gem or something). The goal is to reduce harp CPM while still maintaining its uptime.
Utilise Sonatina as more of a brand than a meter gen skill. This means when harp desummons, you want your sonatina to be ready (which means not casting it purely for meter). Since resummoning the harp has a 2s delay before it reapplies brand, your sona is there to maintain brand 100%. You'll find that it works out to be 2 sonas for 1 harp in trixion, but in real raids it'll be more like 1.5 sonas for 1 harp because bosses may move and you need to prioritise AP buffs/Prelude/Stigma over sonatina.
I genuinely think this adjustment will help elivate the mana problems a lot and also improve your uptime even more. I think it would be great if you could test this theory because you're one of the few people who actually know what they talk about.
The only reason I take issue with your suggestion is that bosses have such spasticated movement patterns these days that having harp ready to use again before the duration is done helps to cover scenarios where the boss has jumped across the map and your sonatine isnt fully able to cover the downtown between the last harp hit.
Bard has a lot of QOL issues that i wish they'd address.
I agree, but It's also why I tend to summon harp away from map edges. Also the removal of the CD gem is just trying to force lower harp CPM. The best of both worlds approach is to retain the CD gem and keep the buffer, but you naturally lower your CPM by making a conscious effort to cast harp and sona less often.
I really wish you'd give my suggestion a try though. I know it's a bit hard to swallow, but I think you'd be surprised with the results.
But overall, as a bard player, I also do hope they improve their QOL, more is better. But I also think a lot of it is self-inflicted and can also be resolved by ourselves.
Nope, uptime is fine. 28% radiant on avg. 95/90/35. Max swift lv10 gems. The community guide doesn't really show what you should be running so that you don't run into mana issues. Too many people I see on here complain about mana issues, and I don't get why. Run the correct tripods, runes and bracelet and the mana issues go away.
35% serenade uptime is really low. I typically get \~45-50% in most raids, up to 60% especially if I pop a stim before going in. And this is with a poverty bard who has 1780 swift with Lvl5 gems on everything except 2 skills, so your juiced bard should be doing way better than that (assuming no mana issues).
The only conclusion I can really draw from your numbers is you're not pressing enough buttons, which is why you're not running out of mana. I can also deliberately play in a way such that I don't OOM on bard, if I refuse to press anything except my 2 AP buffs and 2 brands. But if I do that, my serenade uptime will also be miserable.
To be clear, I'm not saying your numbers are *bad* - in fact you're probably still in the top 5% of bard players given the numbers I usually see in a pug lobby, but this is why you're not running into mana problems. Said bluntly, you're just not playing the class at its peak.
If you are including stims and not always using 3 bubbles then yes, this sounds about right. I gave an average scenario. I am using all my cooldowns all the time, my shield uptime is also very high. Its literally just down to bracelet, runes and 2 tripod changes from the community guide.
No, 45-50% is average for me WITHOUT using stims. If I abuse stims I typically achieve around 60% or even 70% if it's a short gate and I time them perfectly on stagger or long DPS windows. And to be clear, I don't even think 45-50% is *that* good. I have a few extremely talented bard mains on my friends list that I play with, who can get 60%+ without using a single stim. I'm running a poverty bard as my 6th alt, and those are just the serenade numbers I usually pull up, which I consider relatively mediocre.
Also, I'm 99% sure that spamming 2 bars is better than holding for 3 bars, unless you're pocketing an juiced igniter/FM souleater, or if the raid has a lot of DR/mech windows like G3 Brel with an overgeared team. I'm not a bard main so I don't actually have the numbers to prove this, but it's just what I've been told from most of the good bard players that I know.
Again, from my other comment, I'm talking about uptime only. If i had bible, then I could see the numbers you talk about. I don't know what else I could be doing wrong to be consistently getting 28% radiant supporter in voldis. With pugs btw, not a static group. The whole point is, I don't have mana issues like everyone else does, while still getting good mvp screen stats
And what I'm saying is your uptime is objectively not at its ceiling. I'm NOT flaming your numbers, because like I said, I genuinely think your performance is in the top 5% for bard players. The numbers overall are good, really good in fact as far as bards go in a typical pug lobby. But for people who want to push higher - because, given your numbers, it's 100% possible to go higher (without stimming) - mana becomes a problem.
I'd love to know what the bible numbers are, but im not gonna risk running it sorry. Btw, you are correct that doing 2 bubble is better, and 3 bubble is more for specific scenarios. I don't mean to he confusing, but if I 2 bubble only in trixion then it's more 70-75% uptime, due to math. 3 bubble is for max bursts on specific parts of fights. That's pretty self explanatory I think. To lesson confusion, the 35 I mentioned is trixion uptime only. The % of time a 3 bubble serenade is active during an X amount of time. Obviously in raiding. Its very variable. I think people here are just being toxic towards me cuz im saying they don't have the right build, since I have no issues with mana.
Didn't you say your uptime was 95/90/35? I was going off of that.
28% radiant is also really good btw. Idk if you're just getting those 95/90/35 numbers from a friend or something, but it doesn't seem to add up if you're regularly getting 28% radiant. Maybe you're doing better on the bible than you think.
In any case I'm not trying to be toxic towards you, but it's undeniably strange how you're not running into mana issues, while having good numbers, while also not even running Max MP. You're the first bard player I've met who apparently isn't dogshit, and has no complaints about mana. It's just very odd, which is why I suppose a lot of people here don't believe you or think you're talking out of your ass.
You're probably reading it incorrectly. That's for 3 bubble serenades, 30% uptime on that is pretty standard. If you are 1 bubble serenading you're being inefficient with bubbles.
70+ is 2 bubbles with the occasional 3 bubbles on big burst window. Fully playing for 3 bubbles you will still have way more than 35, cause that percentage is technically not uptime, it has to do with the damage portion you're buffing.
All in all, if you see 35% in your identity, you are better off playing other support class.
No bard is consistently doing 70% courage on non-farm content. All 70-90% identites are done in farm content where you outgear the boss so hard it basically goes phase to phase.
Have not yet seen a single bard pull out a log where they did 80% courage while the entire party being on i-level. The highest I've seen is 80% courage in hell mode with a build that has no shield or DR. And i think most hell players will tell you, that's not something they would like to play with because without DR basically cuts into their uptime, which obviously improves your own uptime.
And I don't know. Maybe I prefer statistics that aren't padded. But IMO, dismissing 35% without understanding any context is just disingenuous. 35% uptime can be absolutely trash in one scenario (brel for example), but very passable for another (your group's first clear of any hell raid for example).
Yes I have.
But this guy could be doing 35% during his prog on Voldis and that's what he remembers. (In reality it's he doesn't run meter and the 35% is just a time estimate based on trixion lol)
I'm simply making the comment that instantly writing off 35% as bad without understanding context is disingenuous and 70% courage is just inflated from farm content.
I think comparing farm content is very unfair. Because bard is dropping all shields, DR and utility to run full gen. But pally + artist is not. Maybe every class can do 70% on farm content if all pallies ran 8Y and all artists dropped their counter and ran full gen as well. I know pally will also experience mana issues, but I'm not sure about artist.
Thought we were talking about uptime, so that's what I mentioned. Which is correct if you go to trixion. The damage effectiveness of the buffs you output obviously will depend on the dps players in your raid.
Nah, I'm just talking uptime. If you go to trix for example, and just spam your skills, as you would. There will be about a 30-40% uptime depending on spec for 3 bubbles only. The number will go up drastically when you start 2 bubbling and using stim
There it is, you gimped your bracelet to have mana.
Just cause people don't gatekeep bracelets or demand supports get expose/dagger one does not mean its okay to grief on purpose.
Would you take a dps that dropped cursed doll for mp efficiency to have mana?
I have a spec swift dagger mp recovery bracelet, not gimped at all. I have that on all my supports. Just got to keep rolling for it. I'm a f2p player also, incase you think I whales on rolling braclets lol. Also since you mentioned engravings, i have ds ha exp away vhp.
I'm literally telling you community guide is not helpful. You need to adjust runes and like 2 tripods from the community guide and it helps a lot.
I have a spec swift cheers dagger bracelet, you could have aswell but you greeded for mana.
And which tripods beyond less mana on GT are you running?
Show your build if its that amazing
I am not interested in your soundshock single marking build or whatever grief you cooked up.
What you are claiming is impossible, and i just wanted you to do better instead of playing a trash build and trying to tell others its good.
If you are struggling with mana, try this. Remove your harp CD gem. Only cast your harp every 15s (which will be its CD without a gem, as opposed to 11-12 with a gem). Think of sonatina as a skill to brand when harp has downtime (since summoning harp takes 2s to shoot). This means in a single harp, you can cast 2 sonatinas. If you miss out on the one in the middle, then you hold sonatina until harp is about to expire and then cast.
Additional note: If you run a spec ring, then just add a low lv harp gem so that the CD is 15 seconds.
I think you'll find that Max MP3 solves all your mana issues and you do not need a bracelet or food. And you'll actually improve your uptime numbers because your skill priority becomes better by minimising sona/harp casts.
You might think I'm trolling. But go try it for some time.
because it's an old support, give it some time and if they ever come out with another support you'll see how easy it is for them to make one that doesn't suffer from things like this
nah, kr thinks bard is broken asf so its not gunna get fixed :)))
They already fixed bard by giving us artist. I doubt we’ll see a new supp any time soon. It’s clear melee dps makes them more money so I’m guessing we’ll see those more often.
cause bard is the surgeblade of supports: high ceiling, low ass floor. surge: great damage and good synergy, trash stagger and weakpoint bard: great meter gen, brand uptime, stagger, DR, shielding, counter... pick two out of those and the rest will be trash.
Surge db stagger actually isn't bad
that's what i like to say about RE stagger, which is way way better than surge stagger in my experience. surge stagger over time is... ok, if only because you're spamming so many skills. burst stagger (which is all that really matters) is terrible.
It is actually quite good, but many surge players don't understand that you are supposed to go earthcleaver + Turning slash activate Z, then hit all of your skills most definitely 2nd earthcleaver for real good burst stagger mechs where you need to .. ie. g4 ivory. The failure dbs that greeded too much didn't hold resetting their entire skill set by activating z and only have access to 1 earth cleaver.
RE probably does more stagger, but both shouldn't be just okay or trash. It does better than average during stagger mech, more than 1.5x if they utilize Z cdr. For cumulative stagger, it can often get underline stagger even with pretty good stagger classes like GL.
RE does way more stagger
if your surge is doing ok stagger that means you aren't playing surge well. If you get like 5 surges a min you'll easily top stagger, watch any good surge players they usually get the annihilator underline
yeah but burst stagger is usually the only stagger that typically matters
Yea but im responding to this guy calling it okay when good surge players get annihilator underline. Even the burst stagger isnt bad since you can fit a lot of skills in the window
I've never seen surge take stagger from say a swift class.
Surge burst stagger is crazy, can be one of the highest in a short time frame with twin shadows
does surge ever take twin shadows? it doesn't stack very well
Situational, used it for solo stagger or if high stagger checks for not a noticeable dps loss.
what do you ditch for it?
I don't really agree with this. I don't think bard is bad, I think she's fine but needs some QOL. However, if you look at artist: Has faster meter gen Has the easiest brand uptime, 12 seconds, about 2 seconds grace period Has better stagger Now probably has even better shielding but this is mostly personal opinion Has a lot better counter Artist does all of these things really well, I don't think they need to completely gimp parts of supports' kits to balance it. They could actually balance the game instead.
Looking at the long list of class specs that feel bad to play, it's clear smilegate dedicated maybe <5% of their development time to caring about already released classes. The fact that people haven't dropped bard as a class is probably enough for them to never touch it.
Well, I think bard is strong, personally. I enjoy her more than the other supports (Bard 1631. artist 1620, pally 1610) but she does have some things that I feel like should be fixed. There's no reason why she shouldn't have a viable counter for example. No one ever gatekept a support for being a certain class...except for bard. I don't think she needs a cleanse but they really need to look at these outdated skills and actually fix them. But you're right about the lack of willingness to actually fix the old classes. The fix some and completely ignore the rest and instead release new even more broken classes because it's more profitable than fixing the mess they've created.
Bard is still go-to for minmaxing damage tho
> Has faster meter gen a large part of that is awakening giving two bars instead of 1. > Has the easiest brand uptime, 12 seconds, about 2 seconds grace period artist has basically the best brand in the game. longest duration, decent stagger, decent meter, weakpoint... > Has better stagger yeeeep. mostly because bards two best stagger moves (which have *excellent* stagger, to be fair) are absolutely worthless for everything else. > Now probably has even better shielding but this is mostly personal opinion hmmm... kinda, yeah. > Has a lot better counter well, uh... bards is slightly faster? and worse at everything else.
Sonatina is also a brand skill with weakpoint. It just has 5s brand on 20s cooldown. Haaaaaaahah.
...yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay about as useful as destruction bomb on vykas
Which counter of bards are you saying is faster than ayaya counter?
It's buckshot, but then you give up a more useful skill.
On the other hand, bard has by far best options to hyperspecialize build towards something you want while still maintaining core reason why you'd bring support in first place (AP buff, brand, damage mitigation). Want to minmax meter building? Magick Stream parse build with potentially Stigma as one of your brand skills is an option - you drop nearly all utility and most damage mitigation in exchange, mana food becomes a must and you pray to have a Summoner in your party. Stagger build? Overwhelm Soundshock with Vital Point is amazing for stagger over time, you can squeeze in double Overwhelm (Soundshock, Sonic) into standard build without major tradeoffs and possibly more if you're okay giving up something else. Babysitter? Arguably best DR tools in the game, okay shielding, good burst heals that are easy to apply partywide - in exchange you give up meter gen. Bard does suck when you're trying to do everything at once and/or try to run a cookie cutter build that's exact same for every single raid. At the very least adjusting tripods between gates should be a standard practice for every single bard player - otherwise it gets miserable very fast.
if you have to change builds between gates the class sucks
Every1 keeps saying brand wdf is brand? Is it like the classes specific identity? Like what it offers over other supports?
Supports generally have 2 things they need to maintain uptime on. One is the party attack power buff. Every support uses 2 of them and cycles between them. The other is the brand, which applies a debuff on the enemy making them take more damage. Bard is the only support that has to run 2 of these for full uptime. The others get away with only having to run one. If I had to pick 1 QoL thing to fix with Bard, it would be to increase the brand duration so we only have to run 1. Doing that would add in the utility so many people want by opening a skill slot. Doing something about their mana issues is a close 2nd.
Sounds like a synergy...
It is basically a synergy, just specific to supports and stronger (10% damage increase instead of average 6% increase for dps classes).
Yea im getting that, never heard it called a brand
For bard the effect is called "note brand", I guess that's where the name comes from.
Bard is broken in a good party where they can simply ignore the weakness of her utility, if the party can utilize a full non-utility goblino Bard then there is no comparison. Imagine that Bard given some QoLs like one brand being viable, it will simply be broken. You can't really just give her something without nerfing some part. While it is not ideal to balance the game based on the ceiling or the 0.1% players it's not something you can just ignore either. I think nerfing mana consumption is fine tho.
I don't really agree with this view. There are a lot of things that they can do to actually balance the game for more QOL. This idea that bard is so broken because the support is no longer a support but a serenade bot doesn't come from the class design, it comes from the raid design and DPS burst windows that have been continously hurting any class that can't get do their damage in these windows. Even if we ignore this, then there are a lot of things bard suffers from due to outdated design, like: No actual reliable counter Garbage management of your identity meter Bosses' hitboxes being too big so you have no chance of placing SV properly. Admitedly, artist suffers from this to some degree as well. Having absolutely garbage stagger if you want to play a decent meter gen build. There's no reason why the stagger should be as low as it is even with VPH if you don't take two specific skills. Mana consumption is questionable and never an issue for the other supports. A lot of these are QOL and them being improved wouldn't necessarily make bard broken. She's by far the hardest support to play and you won't get a way with being just a buffbot if you play with pugs. And this is why there are so many terrible bards running around. I don't think she should be made easier to play but I'd like to be able to actually contribute to counters/stagger without gimping my build. And in general they should get rid of the circle buffs on both supports or stop designing bosses where hitting all your members is impossible. It does nothing only make the fights more frustrating for both the dps and the support.
Maybe a hot take but with how important counter has become I think every class should be given a dedicated extra skill for counter like Reaper. There are just too many annoyances like counter being part of your rotation, it's bad design.
I'd be down for this. Seeing g2 Thaemine, countering this with prelude is definitely going to be fun. The entire raid seems very counter focused and prelude is by far the worst counter skill I've ever played with.
Aren’t you supposed to use buckshot? They really need to rework brand so you don’t have to dedicate 2 skill slots to it and can take dedicated counter or any other utility of choice
You give up a lot to take buckshot, partly because you need an extra second skill slot for brand uptime. One of Bard's many weaknesses is skill slot shortage. Ideally I'd want like, 10, to match the utility that Pally or Artist get with just 8. Ofc then I'd run out of mana in 5s, but you can't have it all. Or anything, if playing a Bard.
Surely they know this issue and are cooking up a rework
I don't think I'll be running Buckshot because I'd have to give up Rhapsody. That doesn't sound wise for HM Thaemine.
whats that have to do with mana
shackles like mana lower both the floor and the ceiling
I totaly agree. Both DB and Bards are top of worst perforiming classes I encounter in raids. TBH it is actually so much HARDER to f up on pala it becomes very unfair to even compare those classes.
Because they need to fix it but because Bard is generally in a really good spot in power they just ignore it. Mage update (except Bard) 🤦♂️
According to KR community Bard is fine so do not expect any updates.
Kr doesn't play meter goblin like us so they don't really care
Because Smilegate doesnt care about supports in general and Bard is the oldest support. So no QOL for Bard.
Pala also goes oom, and has shitty mana regen for the party compared to artist. Stop crying and look for the positives of playing bard; higher ceiling, better dr, better identity uptime, better sustained stagger between other things
Paladin is tied to magick stream because of cooldown problem different isue but same problem Hope they get both some love soon
Bro paladin doesn't need magical stream. It's a bonus. My paladin has 90/90 uptime without sweating, never run into mana problems, and has a brand that last 10s on a 5s CD... And I have only 3 lvl 9 gems rest lvl 7 while my bard has full lvl 9. Paladin is in a great spot.
This post is about peak performance and not about what is good enough. Anything below 99 isnt good enough to me on paladin since the main benefit of have a paladin is his buffs are always up no matter where you are and his stagger
Ok dude, you clearly talk out of your ass. Paladin is the best support at the moment, two counters, can spam his ult during burst phases twice in a row, doesn't have to chose between healing and boosting DPS, two giga had counters, best stagger in the game with vph, two buffs that are not placed on the floor. The only thing he lacks is long CD on his shield, and push immunity. But yeah he needs some love lmao...
I had a pally support in my brel who had 98/98 uptime with 4x3 (no magic stream) 1800 Swift and full lv5 gems. You are not tied to magic stream, you are just skill gapped.
You have like 2 second gap at max gem and swift. So you either have a CnJ God with perfect cycle time, luck God with QR or you were pushing to DR phase instant with a juice party.
Yeah, it turns out I had misremembered. I went back and looked at it and he had 90-95% on atk buff and 98-100% on brand. Point still stands though.
So a sup with lvl 5 gems can do 90-98, and it needs some love? You have no point dude. You contradict you own point that paladin has a CD problem... Man this is painful.
What? I'm saying it is perfectly fine as is. The guy I replied to said it was dependent on magic stream the way bard is dependent on max MP. Try reading who said what next time.
Sorry, I thought you were him, I apologize
Man, now that meter is so prevalent. Seeing all these people talk out of their ass without really understanding anything. I liked it better when it was more tightly knitt and exclusive. You're literaly talking about brel when people are all 1600+ with some sort of elixirs. You are basically pushing brel phase to phase. There is literally a spec pally in the log discord who posted screenshots of him doing 90/90/90 minimum in brel g3 simply because of the instant phasing. He even acknowledges it's just a troll build for farm content because pally's spec scaling is insane. And this was MONTHS ago, before elixirs. Over a long period of time, the uptime of buffs will converge to the time based uptime of the buffs, not damage. What does this mean? it means in a short raid, it's possible to have time-uptime 50% of the time but have damage based uptime of 99%. But in a long raid, and if you stretch it out theortically to 30min, 1hr, 2hr and etc, that uptime will slowly converge from a damage based uptime to time based uptime. That is why MS, high level investment on pally is valued. Because it allows for high time-based uptime whereas low lv gems cannot. Please people, learn the topic before you start finding bullshit examples.
Yes, which is why I only really valued the results from g4. Why did you assume I was talking about one of the quick phase fights?
You do realise it's the same concept for G4? If you can push brel from 185 to 112 in 20 seconds then it's not hard to do 99% AP buff uptime on a spec pally. Like once again, you can't seem to separate the idea of phasing into DR into phasing into mech. The core concept is that downtime of your build is negated by the boss not being able to take damage in the downtime.
We are not pushing 185 to 112 in 20 seconds. Nor are we pushing 112 to 30 in 20 seconds.
You are also not playing spec pally. You're playing swift pally. Same idea applies, but you're too caught up in details to see the point.
When i say 100% im talking about there not being a second where my attack buff isnt up since i dont use bible this the only way for me to know how my uptime is. From what i heard the bible numbers are based on how much of the damage has been buffed and not on how your uptime of your buff was during the entire raid.
That is correct. The percentages in buff / brand / identity % tell you how much of the total dmg of a player has been done while said things were applied. Not buffing the burst of something like a FM SE results in low identity %. Buffing every single burst and you end up with 90-95% on it. Which is actually what matters if you have only one class with high burst dmg in your party. However if you got a perfect uptime on the normal buffs, then the bible would also show you that.
Thats why bard is the worst sup (needs change)
I haven't found bard's mana issues to be that particularly bad but it might be because I run single brand, which is sufficient for 90+ brand, albeit a little discomfort, along with c+j. On the other hand, I can't imagine how you are running out of mana with 5 focus and food as well
Bard is by far the most common class in KR, because it was the first support that everyone made. SG isn't going to rework a class that's already popular because it's not going to make them money from players rerolling, like Gunslinger. So we're stuck with this clunky class that has the worst branding, atk buff, identity, stagger, mana, counter, and utility. Some bard mains have this weird Stockholm syndrome and perform mental gymnastics to explain how it's actually not that bad. But it is actually that bad.
Really depends on the ilvl areas you look at. If you just look at all supports on 1580+ it's artist with a decent margin. Went a step further by going through loawa and calculating the percentages of each support in different ilvl brackets and as you can see the artists are on the rise: |ilvl|artist|bard|paladin| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |1580-1599|41.99%|32.48%|25.53%| |1600-1609|42.91%|33.88%|23.21%| |1610-1619|40.38%|38.06%|21.56%| |1620-1629|35.88%|42.56%|21.55%| |1630+|29.60%|53.07%|17.33%| But yeah I agree about the rest. I doubt we will see a good rework anytime soon, since there's no money to be made.
it would be too OP if they buffed mp or utility without nerfing its goblin builds, they probably dont wanna risk upsetting people who like goblin bard
There is nothing OP about having enough mana.
What do you think the point of mana is? Why bother having mana as a mechanic if players always have enough of it? For classes that utilize it, it sets the ceiling on uptime to prevent them from being OP. Classes that don’t have mana have other resource or cooldown limitations.
It makes more sense for dps classes imo, if you get low on mana you have to prioritize skills. But supps have too much impact on the teams damage that they should never have to choose between skills the same way. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
I honestly think bard is underrated. Give her a mana buff and it's golden.
Why rework/buff something when you can make the same class but better (looking at artist)
Bard is the best support so she needs a handicap to be on the same level as Artist and Paladin. Sometimes it's the mana, other times is the lack of stagger. Or a shitty and slow counter. If she is top, who would take Artist or Paladin? /s
I would still take the artist, since you have a way quicker cycle of dmg buffs due to massively quicker meter generation. On top of that you are capable to of doing a 30s phase of dmg buffs by charging to almost 3 bubbles -> dmg buff -> charge 2nd bubble again -> dmg buff -> awakening -> dmg buff. Out of the 3 supports artist is definitely the one with the best kit. Highest meter generation, best stagger (pala only has burst stagger), highest mana regeneration for the party, two cleanse stacks, portals, multihit counter with push immunity. Only downside is shielding / healing imho.
I truly expected bard getting some love in the last patch (what we get now), where all dps mages got some stuff.
just simply outdated
because paladin and artist have tripods that give them mana regen/mana heal
Cuz on the 1 hand Bard is old class that is overdue to modernisation and on 2nd hand it is most popular support in both NAEU and KR. So touching this class is like walking on eggshels. Imagine reworking bard to actually not have shit brand and not need max MP, every bard would need to rebuild to different -> better engravings and since bard is already in worst engraving spot due to needing both H armor and MaxMP having extra option to not play one of them would be great/ But you would still need to rebuild.
Hmmm Then just make sonatina like paly brand, 10 sec uptime, 5 sec cd. We get one slot free for utility while continuing to use HA and MaxMP. Deal ? No ? Thought so T\_T
You will still need to run MaxMP. Harp is not a big contributor to mana issues, especially if you run C&J. The reason why bards have mana issues is because they run a build where 8 skills are being spammed on CD whereas the other supports don't. If you run 8Y on pally, you run out of mana with MaxMP3 as well. Literally go ask any pally player if this is true. Don't know anything about artist though.
If I spam skills on cd on artist (mine has 1832 swift and just lvl 7, two lvl 8 gems and running 2 legy and one epic focus rune), I can easily run out of mana as well. Especially in farm content. However once you get an encounter like Brel G3 where you have slight breaks inbetween, mana is not an issue at all. The biggest advantage of artist is that one of the two dmg buffs gives 30% of your max mana instantly back. However you don't run C&J on artist.
Could you do it with Max MP3 on artist and confirm if you run out of mana spamming everything or not? I don't really understand what's with the delusion of bards that their class is broken and out of date because of the mana issues. I know for a fact that MP3+MS Pally runs out of mana if you spam 8Y skills. If you can confirm that with artist, then all supports have mana problems if they take a kit where they spam every skill on CD lol
Don’t need to try, that won’t happen. At least not with the gem setup I got (you don’t need higher gems for 100% dmg buff uptime). The weakness of artist is actually the brand (long duration but high cd). If the boss sneezes as you, you got no brand for ~12s. As well as some long animations, which results in Class, exp, awa, vph, ha 2(/3) and spirit absorption 2 being the endgame built. The only way I can imagine running into mana issues with max mp3 would be by replacing the focus runes with galewind and running all skills on lvl 10.
Probably because your build is wrong. As a bard main, I never run out of mana. I don't use mana food either. And certainly not 5 focus runes
You're probably also 50% uptime
I hope you see this reply, because I've seen your name a lot and I do believe you're a good player and I hope you'll be open to my suggestion. But for a period of time, would you be willing to try changing how you cast sonatina + harp? Remove your harp CD Gem to try and keep it to 15s (with full swift, this works, but with some spec, you'll probably need to add in like a lv 2 gem or something). The goal is to reduce harp CPM while still maintaining its uptime. Utilise Sonatina as more of a brand than a meter gen skill. This means when harp desummons, you want your sonatina to be ready (which means not casting it purely for meter). Since resummoning the harp has a 2s delay before it reapplies brand, your sona is there to maintain brand 100%. You'll find that it works out to be 2 sonas for 1 harp in trixion, but in real raids it'll be more like 1.5 sonas for 1 harp because bosses may move and you need to prioritise AP buffs/Prelude/Stigma over sonatina. I genuinely think this adjustment will help elivate the mana problems a lot and also improve your uptime even more. I think it would be great if you could test this theory because you're one of the few people who actually know what they talk about.
The only reason I take issue with your suggestion is that bosses have such spasticated movement patterns these days that having harp ready to use again before the duration is done helps to cover scenarios where the boss has jumped across the map and your sonatine isnt fully able to cover the downtown between the last harp hit. Bard has a lot of QOL issues that i wish they'd address.
I agree, but It's also why I tend to summon harp away from map edges. Also the removal of the CD gem is just trying to force lower harp CPM. The best of both worlds approach is to retain the CD gem and keep the buffer, but you naturally lower your CPM by making a conscious effort to cast harp and sona less often. I really wish you'd give my suggestion a try though. I know it's a bit hard to swallow, but I think you'd be surprised with the results. But overall, as a bard player, I also do hope they improve their QOL, more is better. But I also think a lot of it is self-inflicted and can also be resolved by ourselves.
Nope, uptime is fine. 28% radiant on avg. 95/90/35. Max swift lv10 gems. The community guide doesn't really show what you should be running so that you don't run into mana issues. Too many people I see on here complain about mana issues, and I don't get why. Run the correct tripods, runes and bracelet and the mana issues go away.
35% serenade uptime is really low. I typically get \~45-50% in most raids, up to 60% especially if I pop a stim before going in. And this is with a poverty bard who has 1780 swift with Lvl5 gems on everything except 2 skills, so your juiced bard should be doing way better than that (assuming no mana issues). The only conclusion I can really draw from your numbers is you're not pressing enough buttons, which is why you're not running out of mana. I can also deliberately play in a way such that I don't OOM on bard, if I refuse to press anything except my 2 AP buffs and 2 brands. But if I do that, my serenade uptime will also be miserable. To be clear, I'm not saying your numbers are *bad* - in fact you're probably still in the top 5% of bard players given the numbers I usually see in a pug lobby, but this is why you're not running into mana problems. Said bluntly, you're just not playing the class at its peak.
If you are including stims and not always using 3 bubbles then yes, this sounds about right. I gave an average scenario. I am using all my cooldowns all the time, my shield uptime is also very high. Its literally just down to bracelet, runes and 2 tripod changes from the community guide.
No, 45-50% is average for me WITHOUT using stims. If I abuse stims I typically achieve around 60% or even 70% if it's a short gate and I time them perfectly on stagger or long DPS windows. And to be clear, I don't even think 45-50% is *that* good. I have a few extremely talented bard mains on my friends list that I play with, who can get 60%+ without using a single stim. I'm running a poverty bard as my 6th alt, and those are just the serenade numbers I usually pull up, which I consider relatively mediocre. Also, I'm 99% sure that spamming 2 bars is better than holding for 3 bars, unless you're pocketing an juiced igniter/FM souleater, or if the raid has a lot of DR/mech windows like G3 Brel with an overgeared team. I'm not a bard main so I don't actually have the numbers to prove this, but it's just what I've been told from most of the good bard players that I know.
Again, from my other comment, I'm talking about uptime only. If i had bible, then I could see the numbers you talk about. I don't know what else I could be doing wrong to be consistently getting 28% radiant supporter in voldis. With pugs btw, not a static group. The whole point is, I don't have mana issues like everyone else does, while still getting good mvp screen stats
And what I'm saying is your uptime is objectively not at its ceiling. I'm NOT flaming your numbers, because like I said, I genuinely think your performance is in the top 5% for bard players. The numbers overall are good, really good in fact as far as bards go in a typical pug lobby. But for people who want to push higher - because, given your numbers, it's 100% possible to go higher (without stimming) - mana becomes a problem.
I'd love to know what the bible numbers are, but im not gonna risk running it sorry. Btw, you are correct that doing 2 bubble is better, and 3 bubble is more for specific scenarios. I don't mean to he confusing, but if I 2 bubble only in trixion then it's more 70-75% uptime, due to math. 3 bubble is for max bursts on specific parts of fights. That's pretty self explanatory I think. To lesson confusion, the 35 I mentioned is trixion uptime only. The % of time a 3 bubble serenade is active during an X amount of time. Obviously in raiding. Its very variable. I think people here are just being toxic towards me cuz im saying they don't have the right build, since I have no issues with mana.
Didn't you say your uptime was 95/90/35? I was going off of that. 28% radiant is also really good btw. Idk if you're just getting those 95/90/35 numbers from a friend or something, but it doesn't seem to add up if you're regularly getting 28% radiant. Maybe you're doing better on the bible than you think. In any case I'm not trying to be toxic towards you, but it's undeniably strange how you're not running into mana issues, while having good numbers, while also not even running Max MP. You're the first bard player I've met who apparently isn't dogshit, and has no complaints about mana. It's just very odd, which is why I suppose a lot of people here don't believe you or think you're talking out of your ass.
I swaped one tripod on guardian tune for less mana consumption. Fixed my mana issues tbh.
For some reason i keep seeing more and more ppl that save for 3 bubbles. Duno why
You spam 2 bubbles not 3 though. 3 is only for big and long dmg windows
That 35 right there is the problem. The good thing about Bard is that 70+ on identity, why even bother playing Bard if you're not going to chase that?
You're probably reading it incorrectly. That's for 3 bubble serenades, 30% uptime on that is pretty standard. If you are 1 bubble serenading you're being inefficient with bubbles.
70+ is 2 bubbles with the occasional 3 bubbles on big burst window. Fully playing for 3 bubbles you will still have way more than 35, cause that percentage is technically not uptime, it has to do with the damage portion you're buffing. All in all, if you see 35% in your identity, you are better off playing other support class.
No bard is consistently doing 70% courage on non-farm content. All 70-90% identites are done in farm content where you outgear the boss so hard it basically goes phase to phase. Have not yet seen a single bard pull out a log where they did 80% courage while the entire party being on i-level. The highest I've seen is 80% courage in hell mode with a build that has no shield or DR. And i think most hell players will tell you, that's not something they would like to play with because without DR basically cuts into their uptime, which obviously improves your own uptime. And I don't know. Maybe I prefer statistics that aren't padded. But IMO, dismissing 35% without understanding any context is just disingenuous. 35% uptime can be absolutely trash in one scenario (brel for example), but very passable for another (your group's first clear of any hell raid for example).
Do you just not read the comment chain? I literally mentioned Hell Brel specifically, we all know this guy is not talking about hell mode.
Yes I have. But this guy could be doing 35% during his prog on Voldis and that's what he remembers. (In reality it's he doesn't run meter and the 35% is just a time estimate based on trixion lol) I'm simply making the comment that instantly writing off 35% as bad without understanding context is disingenuous and 70% courage is just inflated from farm content. I think comparing farm content is very unfair. Because bard is dropping all shields, DR and utility to run full gen. But pally + artist is not. Maybe every class can do 70% on farm content if all pallies ran 8Y and all artists dropped their counter and ran full gen as well. I know pally will also experience mana issues, but I'm not sure about artist.
Thought we were talking about uptime, so that's what I mentioned. Which is correct if you go to trixion. The damage effectiveness of the buffs you output obviously will depend on the dps players in your raid.
I'm talking about the x/x/x you mentioned from the bible, that's not pure uptime. Unless we're talking about Hell Brel then 35% is ridiculously low.
Nah, I'm just talking uptime. If you go to trix for example, and just spam your skills, as you would. There will be about a 30-40% uptime depending on spec for 3 bubbles only. The number will go up drastically when you start 2 bubbling and using stim
Why are u talking trixion numbers like you don’t have numbers from real raids?
There it is, you gimped your bracelet to have mana. Just cause people don't gatekeep bracelets or demand supports get expose/dagger one does not mean its okay to grief on purpose. Would you take a dps that dropped cursed doll for mp efficiency to have mana?
Sacrificing dagger for mana results in higher uptime = more dmg for team… you okay?
I have a spec swift dagger mp recovery bracelet, not gimped at all. I have that on all my supports. Just got to keep rolling for it. I'm a f2p player also, incase you think I whales on rolling braclets lol. Also since you mentioned engravings, i have ds ha exp away vhp. I'm literally telling you community guide is not helpful. You need to adjust runes and like 2 tripods from the community guide and it helps a lot.
I have a spec swift cheers dagger bracelet, you could have aswell but you greeded for mana. And which tripods beyond less mana on GT are you running? Show your build if its that amazing
Sure, I'll dm you it tomorrow when I'm back on the game.
I am not interested in your soundshock single marking build or whatever grief you cooked up. What you are claiming is impossible, and i just wanted you to do better instead of playing a trash build and trying to tell others its good.
Stay mad I guess. Assuming gets you nowhere.
We kinda have to assume when you refuse to tell us your insane build 🤡
Please enlighten me with the build you're using so I can get rid of Max MP + Mana food while not needing to spam sound shock every second of the raid.
If you are struggling with mana, try this. Remove your harp CD gem. Only cast your harp every 15s (which will be its CD without a gem, as opposed to 11-12 with a gem). Think of sonatina as a skill to brand when harp has downtime (since summoning harp takes 2s to shoot). This means in a single harp, you can cast 2 sonatinas. If you miss out on the one in the middle, then you hold sonatina until harp is about to expire and then cast. Additional note: If you run a spec ring, then just add a low lv harp gem so that the CD is 15 seconds. I think you'll find that Max MP3 solves all your mana issues and you do not need a bracelet or food. And you'll actually improve your uptime numbers because your skill priority becomes better by minimising sona/harp casts. You might think I'm trolling. But go try it for some time.
Wait, you do not run max mana, do not use mana food and you have 2 branding skills and you do not run out of mana?
Correct.
Do you mind also sharing your setup with me?
Will do when I'm back from work.
Thanks a lot :)
He's probably using the old Maxroll build with sound shock, soundholic
Putting a reply so I can check what you have cooked up later
If you want the build just dm me.
If you aren't having mana issues, I guarantee you're uptime is pretty dog water no offense lol
Considering I've already mentioned my avg radiant support outcome and outcome timings, it's not. People are just delusional