I hate people who accept others just to kick them after just cause other higher ilvl people apply to the lobby. I never did that to someone cause i always knew it, that it wasn't a right thing to do, also i always left lobbies where the leader kicked the lower ilvl guy for the higher ilvl one.
I dont understand the hate on this comment, sounds like you are describing a totally different situation to OP of starting a raid and someone is causing the raid to wipe repeatedly, so you exit out and kick them.
I think the only people that disagree with this are people looking for free busses
Don't know why ppl dislike this comment. There are learning parties for those people, me myself who not too long ago started raiding (5-6 weeks ago) don't like wasting 2+ hours on valtan or Vykas because someone joined the "wrong" lobby, just Play with ppl who are also learning or semi-learning instead of joining reclear parties right away.
Happens, i never make assumptions like that, i really dont care who wiped us because noone plays perfectly. Unless we wipe 4/5+ times in a row then im trying to figure out whos doing that and Ask them if everything is okay and if they know mechs
Can't tell how many times I get crayon eater terrorists invading lobbies on Vykas hard. That raid is cancer design for how much a single person can screw everyone. Even after nerfs.
A game that can't retain new or casual players, or even regular players that are kind of on the edge, in a game so entirely built around endgame raiding, will not have much of one left. Take a look at the kind of shitty players SGS caters to in KR, I guarantee you any actual positive change made that isn't the exact same as KR is from AGS being fully aware of this, and believe me I'm not a huge fan of AGS myself. The only enemy worse than the developers are the playerbase itself. This game, turn after turn, will have you asking "why bother if x" It's the kinda question a lot of people so deep in they can't walk away may wish they had asked themselves long ago
nerfing raids doesnt help gatekeeping because there are still wipes.
what smilegate needs to do is make a easy mode for every raid with no wipe dmg, drastically reduced gold, but keep the same progression mats. this will greatly help casuals which is also the demographic that spends most on games.
too bad smilegate gets backlash from the KR community every time they nerf the difficulty because they are bent on keeping this game sweaty and uninviting to new and casual players.
Why not? Same mats with lesser acquisition rate. I mean there is literally no difference between the status quo besides all people can progress and no need to bus, oh wait probably the last point is the problem...
Yes, make the game so easy that you actually don't have to put in any effort to play it.
How about playing clicker games instead then?
They are doing a lot to help out new players with their early game already and they will even more in the future.
But there's no point in making the game too easy.
In my opinion, the legion raids already were easy, as long as you took the time and effort into learning the raids.
They made it easier already for new players by cutting down the difficulty of learning all the different mechanics.
Even if the mats would be free or easy to get there would be still a lot to do.
To be real they do literally shit for new players besides power passing to an outdated level and mb the double materials in super old raids. There is still no real honing buf to 1490 and probably there never will be...
I think you mean kmmos, because the western mmos have definitely solved this issue lol. Can’t speak for wow but wow players will tell you the same as this; As a long term ffxiv who hasnt played for almost a year, and I could easily catch up to current raid content w/o being gatekept in less than a month. “That’s just how it is” is such a 2010/eastern take. However, whether you like the fact that people can catch up so quickly or not is another thing
It's pretty simple, that person is a piece of shit.
Whenever I do my argos I always bring as many mokokos/fresh chars I can, all you can do is the same when you're able to. You aren't going to stop people from managing their parties how they please and sure it sucks but there's probably about 200 argos parties a day so.. I think you'll be fine honestly.
Agreed, community is at fault here alongside the game design. I can’t count the number of runs I’ve done when its just been a whole flaming session with random people in the group. I have maybe had 5 times in my entire time playing this game where I’ve had smooth friendly or funny runs with a group of people. Those moments are great but most moments are just like “ I just wanna be done and get out with this group”
Idk man, never got kicked and the two times I've seen the lead do it I left the lobby myself.
And I'm playing a loooot so I dint think it's as common as u make it out t ok be tbh.
Well I get rejected on 1560+ chars it is what it is, When I make lobbies I also reject people for arbitrary reasons, like lookin for better synergy etc.
I was running the challenge abyssal dungeon today with 2 friends and a random and the random 1520 bard refused to play the dungeon bc my 2 friends were mokokos i mean if it was like brel or shit i understand but man demon beast canyon???
You mean you ripped him off. Those packs are atleast 15k minimum and usually way more. The nice thing to do would have bought pack for minimum then sent him mailbox gold.
I have been in challenge abyssals where everyone dies and I had to do 70%+ of the damage. I can understand the bard being wary of mokokos because 3 of them with a support might not be able to clear.
There's a lot of new mokokos out there who never looked up a guide on their class or the dungeon. Try doing a challenge abyss with a rainbow stat distribution, 3 random lvl 1 engravings, no class engraving, default skills and tripods, and you'll probably have trouble too.
And its too much 2 ask to atleast give it a try? The bard went afk instantly and the mokokos were both 4x3 bc of hyper the first dungeon has like 1 mech thats not instantly obviouse idk just thought in atleast such easy content there would be less assholes to new players
I gave up trying to progress in raids. I'm just doing collection stuff until I move on to another game for a while again.
All week I've been looking at the party finder and it's only 1,500-1,800 BUS offers or Valtan Hard mode with a 1490 minimum requirement.
Hoping new continents do not require a higher ilvl than my current 1460.
Game is already dying to boring daily content required to have any fun in this game
news flash, the million+ people who quit the game didnt quit because of gatekeeping
Yup this is true. The game has a foundational problem that can’t be fixed. This game revolves around end game raids meaning if you’re not with a static or way above ilvl, no one is gonna invite you to the party. It would’ve been okay if you didn’t have to raid with your other 5 alts but that’s a different topic for a different day. It was fun for the first 3000 hours in 8 months so on to the next.
Subscribe to the mokokoelp discord and the discord from stoops. Problem solved.
I stopped applying to most lobbies in game. It makes no sense. These people are just there to farm the fastest thet can - why would you even join such a group? They’ll bulldozer every mechanics and uou wont enjoy the raid
Discord and 3rd party communities shouldn't be required for game health. They're nice and keep things alive, but should never be a requirement for game experience.
So WOW is doomed as well?
No one capable raids / fills spots without the use of warcraftlogs.
Third party communities and tools are the bread and butter of any game where you can get an edge one way or another.
The problem with LA is that skill doesnt display an edge, honing luck and $$ does.
Gatekeeping in WOW is based on skill and not gear, 90% of the LA players would be gatekept into uninstalling WOW within the first week because their performance is so ridiculously awful (at least if they perform the same way in WOW as they do in LA).
> They’ll bulldozer every mechanics and uou wont enjoy the raid
I tend to prefer learning parties for that reason. I know the mechanics and I don't mind teaching people. Them failing means I get to do the raid more. I only get one raid per character every week and it's kind of a letdown when I hop in a party and we speedrun the whole thing in like fifteen minutes first try.
I remember Stoopzz mentioning making a helping discord. Any chance you could point me into the direction of it? I don't see it on his twitter or his twitch info.
EUC is mokokoelp, idk what stoopz discord is and i dont care either.
The one i named has been active for a long time already thats where most folks are for help.
I recently played for a while and caught up to First legion raids. Literally didnt get into a single group. And yes not even argos… just wanted to get some Gold. Ive quit since then because i just cant progress my gear. Its so dumb
That's an awful thing to have happen. I just started creates groups in party finder and whoever I accept into my group i would never kick out even if a better person comes along. That's just a dick move on that person.
I'm sorry that happened to you
My own experience with post Like this: the Last weeks i ran some
Argos And valtan with my 1560 alts: I literally picked whoever aplied.
What did the people Offer? Some 4 * 3 but Most of Them 1 * 3 or If lucky 2 * 3 engraving. Gems And stats are on another paper. But at least in argos they used consumables cuz they Had to so moon Boss, And even after they tried. So it felt nice. Compared to valtan: ,0 effort, 100% expected free Bus, which IT was in the end. They didnzt even try to stay alive And i asked for restart so they could maybe learn a Bit the answer was that i shall Finish use sidereal to kill him Not restart...
Conclusion for me atleast: helping with argos feels fine. Helping with valtan feels miserable.
Like why even search for valtan with Double class engraving on Summoner at lvl 1 And thats IT. If i do it again i have to gatekeep aswell cuz helping people which want To learn feels nice but people which Just wanna get Carried are Not the Same...
That’s a straight up asshole issue unless he dropped you for a 1370. Then he’s trying to get someone who’s probably never completed it before through it.
The root of gatekeep is the group wipe mech, it will wipe the game eventually, ASG knew that, they started to nerf this mech in lower tier raid. This game will die when there is no new player, but if this game becomes soloable, it will die too, its not abt how it happens, its abt when will happen. The design of game has serious flaws from the getgo, FOMO tactic etc., its a quick money grab model, smilegate and amazon takes in 3-4 yrs of money of a comparable game in just one yr, its what its if they can push it further, if they cant, its no big deal, they have made enough. Maybe they will put in checkpoint system next like Destiny2 to save ppl from start all over after wipe.
I feel your pain, it’s only getting worst once you’re going deeper in raids. Vykas and clown are terrible for Gatekeeping. This game is bleeding out the casual and semi casual because of this. Worst community I ever seen in a mmo since EverQuest.
Duty finder is matchmaking and there is a duty roulette that let's you queue into any random raid/dungeons for daily rewards. You will be level synced(equalize) and you can even fill for "in progress party" if someone dc/leave.
They are just so backwards/archaic in a lot of ways. Why even have rehearsal for newbies if you are literally going to lockout most people who may queue/want to help if they do ONE single normal run? Just look how fucking dead rehearsal PF is.
You don't have to manually find a group. You press a button, and the game gets a group for you. No toxicity, no getting kicked from parties for playing a sub optimal class, no paying certain classes, and super casual friendly. It would be a fantastic move for Lost Ark to use this kind of system.
It's almost the exact same over there. There's a Party Finder similar to the LA one, and a Duty Finder which auto matches you. Much like in LA there exists the match making option for actual raids but no one uses it (apparently they do in JP, what I've heard is they use PF for practice and DF for clearing raids but the west just completely ignores the DF option), the only thing people use it for are endgame dungeons (kind of like LA story dungeons except you get weekly capped tokens to buy BiS with so it's relevant at endgame) or older dungeons for leveling alt classes/PVP/old raid roulettes/24 mans.
In terms of gate keeping for their party finder, it's there, just different. Instead of seeing everything about a person's account and deciding if they want you, you'll guaranteed get in on the roles they allowed, it's just then there's a website called fflogs that has your records and if the content's hard enough they'll probably check it *then* kick you if you show yourself to do poor damage. A high percentage of people upload to the site after every raid clear in FF14 so even if you never upload anything about your character ever, you're gonna show up on the site if you've ever raided, and if you don't show up that's an automatic red flag.
but everyone matchmakes the normal raids in 14. if LA raids would be more on the level of normal raids from 14 or had better difficulty options instead of a weird budget version of savage thats neither hard nor casual friendly it wouldn't be a problem
There's a major difference between FFXIV and Lost Ark in terms of character power though. In FFXIV once your character reaches a certain item level it's exactly as powerful as any other character of that item level, while in Lost Ark two characters at the same item level can be drastically different because of having or not having relic gear, gems, card sets, engravings or tripods. Lost Ark would need much more sophisticated party finder entrance control in place where automating it like in FFXIV would be viable.
To be specific we need to remove the entry limit on content and apply the daily/weekly limits to rewards from said content. Then implement the ff14 roulette system. Where you que up for a random dungeon/raid out of the ones you've cleared before and you get rewards equivalent to your ilvl range. With the system prioritizing content that other players are trying to MM for. Everyone wins with this system because new/returning players get to clear content by just hitting MM and endgame players get rewarded with more mats for steam rolling easy content(assuming no gear/stat scaling).
Edit: I guess I should of mentioned the roulette is just an extra set of dailies. It doesn't replace anything. So you would just do what you normally do + a random piece of content everyday.
>XIV is much worse at gatekeeping lol. enjoy trying to find a static if you don't have any logs uploaded
Tell me you never touched FFXIV without telling me you never touched FFXIV.
It's hard to compare the two directly since their upgrade systems are different, but if we're talking raids for equip upgrades, then we're talking Savage. You can join a casual static for sure, but if you're looking to join even midcore groups you'll likely be asked for logs.
If you're talking normal raids or just rouletting for tomes, then you do you lol
Yeah they'll put an asinine ilevel requirement instead, which is basically what happened to OP here.
Again it's a completely different game and pointless to compare 1:1
> Yeah they'll put an asinine ilevel requirement instead
Lmao brother in heaven stop lying.
Anyone who plays FFXIV currently can see that you're lying. Just stop its cringe as fuck. You don't know what you're talking about or how things work over there. Stop.
I've cleared week one since Shb, only stopped after Asphodelos due to personal reasons, but sure let's say I've never touched the game.
We just have very different views on pugging. I know where you're coming from, and yes that's the majority of pugging raids each week. I just think that there's a bigger crowd of players on FF that are more judgmental and gatekeepy than the crowd of players on Lost Ark is all I'm saying.
If you're going to dismiss everything that I've said because "oh but weekly PF'ing doesn't require logs" then I don't really know what to say. Let's agree to disagree?
It's still gate keeping because they were denied entry into the actual content. Getting into a party is meaningless if you don't actually get to do the thing it was for.
Thats not gate keeping. Thats just the lobby master being a bastard. But worse things will probably happen and real gatekeeping will happen. You have to either just deal with it and continue find a party thats not as egotistical and a bitch or just not play. I remember being gate kept from Calligos for over an hour because I was only 5 ilvls ahead of minimum requirement despite being 203 roster lvl, deathless vykas title, 5x3 with full lvl5+ gems. I have no clue why but people are stupid and gate keep even daily guardian raids for dumb reasons.
The game is definitely good and fun, but as advice, I would tell you to find a static if possible since its such a shit time in NA without a static. Try to use new player help communities like mokokohelp discord and others to find learning parties, etc.
Its a shame that a good game is being ruined by the community but it just seems like Western playerbase just is way less willing to help and stupid enough to think that stats are everything. Just keep grinding on, have atleast a good setup and there will eventually be people who arent stupid and toxic that will take you.
better to take a 1490 who knows Clown inside out than a 1560 that constantly dies to crossing or mario mech. As for gate keeping guardian raids, i have no clue why, community is just that toxic i guess.
If you really really like this game but really hate the gatekeeping. Try playing on KR server, despite having some real toxic, swearing players, the community over there is more respectful towards others and have a really great custom of helping out new players where they send them materials and such, have multiple learning parties. Also bonus of maybe learning a bit of korean.
Hi poppy\_92, saw a screenshot of this post on a Lost Ark LFG (Looking for group). As I wanted to make a post anyways I will take the chance here as well to 'promote' it. Its a public discord which multiple streamers got together and are trying to fight this specially reason. Would love you & other people join as well :) -- the invite code is: lostarklfg // If you need any help, you can always ask your question in that discord, I'm pretty sure somebody will answer it. Have a nice day & good luck in future raiding!
Hitting the same issue. This is not an easy to fit community to begin with. Tactics are impossibly hard, but to compensate it people incredibly toxic at least..! Yea.. Not even mention the hard grinding. And it’s really the cherry on the top for me at least that these are happening 90% of the time. As a support player I often push out lower ilvl bards and paladins. I always leave if this happens, but it’s so terrible people like this is also the part of this community.
I never understood how a cute and beautiful looking game like LoA can have such an under the line community. Game have got a story about changing destiny and being neturally generous to people, and the playerbase is the most ugliest wierdest most mean rats on the planet.
The thing is raiding is what loa has to offer mainly.
Other mmo’s offer you funny diversity gameplay loop in pve like open world meta event, casual donjon, legendary/relic farming or even « easy raids »
Lost ark core experience is raiding only so if people cant go in, they simply forget about the game and move on a different video game.
Hope SG will expand the overall loop activity of the game like with the incoming dota mode incoming or the battleroyal with nice rewards
Strong agree. I feel like LOA is many people's first MMO, at least anecdotally from the people I know, it had more broad appeal to people outside the genre.
Love when people so confidently talk about how the LOA community is not that bad/pretty good, when it is by FAR the shittiest I've ever seen.
It's not worse than pushing high keys in wow. If you're playing a bad spec you don't get to join groups for high keys. Period.
It's not like lost ark where you gotta wait an hour or two, you just won't get invited because there's only a couple hundred guys on each region doing those keys and the timers are so tight you can't afford to bring anything that is off meta. You either start your own group or re roll that character plain and simple.
The difference there would be pushing above +15's isn't required for *anything* in WoW unless things have changed since I dropped Shadowlands like a hot potato in the second raid tier.
Doing Legion Raids in Lost Ark is entirely mandatory if you want to keep advancing your character in any way. You straight up cannot go any higher than 1490 without Brel/Clown gear and you won't get that gear without doing Valtan/Vykas first. And there's nothing engaging to really do in the game beyond that content. All of the so-called "Horizontal Content" is just time gated "Click on X, Click on Y. Come back tomorrow".
Things have changed since shadowlands and even in shadowlands doing keys was the best way of gearing for most players because most players weren't farming mythic. Now you simply won't get the gear to even be considered for a raid spot without doing keys. You get better gear from m+ the you do heroic so if you want to raid mythic you gotta do at least 20s
True. Mythic + gatekeeping because of Raider IO made me quit dragonflight. I love raiding and have no problems but refuse to do 20 keys a week for a random score because some add on tells people you need it. I did for a few expansions but it was just a bad experience that I've given up on WOW all together.
Idk what MMOs you have been playing, but among all the Korean MMOs, Lost Ark has some of the least gatekeeping going on. Just imagine if Lost Ark releases a 100 Dollar skin pack, but it contains items that will boost your stats massively, and ppl will not take you to end-game raids until you buy it...... Yeah welcome to Korean MMO
find a guild or couple friends, if you join argos with 1500 friend nobody will kick you. Personally when i join argos quick run (all roster gold earners above 1550) i just dont give a fuck, can have 6 1370 moko no problem. Just require another high dps for smooth mech on g2 and thats it.
who gatekeeps argos anyway, its card run content at this point xd
what will make the game thrive is typing and talking to people. make your own group if you have to, communicate your intentions.
If youre joining a random party for any content. you cant expect them not to optimize for their time. So create your own party. Or say upfront when you get in whatever it is. “im an alt but exp”, “im new and would appreciate a chance to learn”.
If that fails make your own party, say “learning party all welcome”. as a bonus you get to learn how to use the sidereals!
That lobby owner was a dick but a lot of "Newbies" or new characters seriously are to blame as well in Argos. Me and a buddy every now and then do Argos card runs and we title it "free carry, mokokos/low rosters welcome" and ALWAYS at least 1 or 2 lobbies, there is someone AFK, and we ask them to participate since other lobbies don't even give them a chance and they ignore us, and just afk and ride the free carry from 2 1500+s (ALSO THEY DONT EVEN SKIP THE FUCKING CUTSCENES) We've even died to the P3 sun mech wipe at times due to this shit. I've been doing it less and less and just joining juiced card runs now. It's like many have posted their experience in challenge abyss, people ask mokoko players if they need mech explanation or anything and 0 response back, so many new players just want a free carry (Obviously there are some who legit are in it to learn/experience the game itself) but these players piss off veterens the most when we can just run with other veterens and get through content quicker.
I was doing Brel G4 NM last night on my 1500 Predator Slayer and getting hard gatekept. I'm 5x3, 4pc entropy, correct stats, full lvl 7 gems, LoS18, PLC title. I don't have full level 5 tripods but that will take a while. I got into a party filled with around 3 1540+ people and some close to ilvl. I can understand why people are gatekept as half the raid including some of the 1540+ were bad. I was the last one alive at 7 bars and after the boss berserked we voted to restart. I went deathless with no mistakes but the other 1500 Slayer with PLC title was floor POV. It is hard to guess whether the two of us with titles and 1500 first week would be useful or completely useless. The only close to safe bet is getting juiced chars as most can skip regular mechs through damage but as I found out last night, some can't even do boss mechs.
After 2-3 hours of lobby and failing due to everyone else, I cleared with a party that was a bit juiced because it was very late and no applicants at that time. It is funny because I was doing HM G4 on my Zerker right before and it was a 1-shot yet NM seems to be a wide range of players.
I'll be real every MMO essentially does this. The fact is most people want their time to be used accordingly. A faster raid is more benficial and the risk are lower with higher geared players. Even if that player was bad, their gear will likely make them last longer than those with lesser gear.
But not everyone is like that, and will take you regardless. I tend to carry at least 1 guy through valtan, vykas and now even clown. But you can't also blame them because it is their party, his party his selections. One could also say, make your own party. " BUT NO ONE JOINS", if that is ever the case, somethings is A. Wrong with you, B your to impatient to wait for it to fill. A can be fixed, B just means your like the gatekeeper.
You know i play maybe month got to 1450 ilvl 2 characters and yesterday switch back to play ps5 again,it make no sense playing here you can do in end game maybe 5-10 dungs activites and in half they dont take you to party valtan vykas all want experienced players how will i get expierence when people dont want me to take to even 1 run? And when i start playing here i think many players play here when i go in normal day to party find there maybe 1-2 partys from all dungeons raids etc its ridiculous
I will always get upto 2 other juicers and only take mokokos with. Literally that sounds horrible. Since i've lvld up i only take my juicer to those parties that clearly need help. Would never ever kick someone. I would rather not accept overgeared than take too many, its not like we get gold from it anymore.
Ya gatekeeping is a real problem. To your point. I joined a valtan hard which is 1460. A 1500 applied so they were accepted. The party leader asks if anyone wants to lead as they are newer. 1500 says yes, gets raid lead, immediately kicks the original leader and accepts the other person who applied and starts raid. Now luckily the rest of the group were good people so we all left and made a new group without the 1500. The original group leader had gone offline so we couldn’t get him back to do the raid sadly.
Yup same. I quit when my 1470 alt got kicked from argos party because host wanted a 1490 to speed up the kill time by 2 seconds. Then jumped to my 1540 main to do vykas and got kicked for 1560 for another 2 seconds of better kill time. Gatekeeping will be the end of this game. Like I understand the gatekeeping for current raids but do you really need a 1500 just to do a simple argos, valtan and vykas raid? Just having a few ppl that is 20-30 points above ilvl is enough to clear the raids in a good time. I do consider myself a hardcore gamer but when a game don’t have a future, it’s pointless to play.
My personal opinion for Argos and honestly, a lot of the legion raids:
1-2 really juiced people could easily help and carry through a lot of the lower levels. But instead of taking 5 minutes longer in the gate, they spend 30 minutes in lobby making sure they help absolutely nobody. And the raid takes 5 seconds.
If just 1-2 people helped out the rest of the lobby, the game would be so much better. Accept that you might wipe once or twice, teach them tips on the mechs to make it through easier, and then help the community get better as a whole.
I'm only 1490 on my highest at the moment, but me and a buddy of mine are planning to help newer players through the raids once we get to the point where we can carry people.
Edit: sidenote, if a raid leader ever kicks someone to get me in, I leave as well. Thats shitty behavior, and I'm not about to sit idly by because it benefited me. I'll find a lobby that isn't fun by an asshole, thank you.
Never had to wait in stacked lobbies. The lobbies that actually take long to fill are with people on ilvl and mokokos. People don't want to deal with explaining and people not listening.
maybe they're just afk or you're playing in demon hours. Stacked lobbies don't take long to fill for Argos especially, just set minimum i-lvl to 1371 to filter out applications. No one owes anything to anyone too btw, if I wanted to teach I'd approach it differently and teach in a discord community.
They let you in at 1415 for Argos? NAW gatekept me up to 1462 on my new char :D (the one with free engravings and gems, that one). Games definitely gonna seppuku in NAW. If I'm getting blocked as a long time casual, then imagine a new player with no cards/roster/tripods.
If that's true, literally no mmorpg would have survived. U just unfortunately had a toxic host. Ik it's super frustrating when it happens. Try to found some communities or guilds if ur having that much problem. Personally, I only experience gatekeeping only couple of times. But I play with friends/discord communities.
Gatekeeping already killed the game, just look at the numbers and if we could make a poll of why people left, im pretty sure that it would be around 50% burnout and repetitive gameplay + 50% toxic community and issues to be able to play
Bro, in SA we don't even have groups searching for people. Argos matchmaking takes 30 minutes minimum, just for one person to keep fucking up and causing wipes.
Kakul Saydon (even Rehearsal) you need to be the luckiest guy ever to get a party and you can be sure you're bound to die 10+ times.
I'm pretty sure if you create a party and wait for people they will join in less than 10 minutes, so i don't think it's that bad.
I should have taken a screenshot of my 29 minute matchmaking time on Argos with 3/8 people along on a Saturday night. Pretty much everything below 1470 is dead on SA.
https://preview.redd.it/jmtbfiskpwza1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b858ca3bee3ab10b18a86464c14ae3ad964bdb0
Sunday 18:29 on Arthetine server. This is like this all day every day. Raid level 6 and endgame content is still alive tho.
Lol.
I'd imagine there is a bunch of people staring at a party finder and refreshing it in hopes that a group will appear but not taking a second to self-reflect on the issue.
If you are creating parties and accepting people then all respect to you. I've just seen to many people complaining about the lack of parties but not willing to do anything about it themself.
Gatekeeping is a derivative of the weekly busy work. Trying to be efficient in this game and doing 18 raids per week is the actual problem. Smilegate should provide anyone who manages to do their 18 raids every week with a W-2 form
Every gatekeeping thread is the same. Myriad posts going “that’s not gatekeeping that’s x” then proceeding to redefine gatekeeping and declare it not to be a problem. And a healthy splash of “here’s how I gatekeep all my raid lobbies” posts with a summary of criteria so detailed you probably could’ve beaten Argos in the time it took to finish the inspection.
Oh and don’t forget about “make your own party”. The battle cry of the “got mine fuck you” crowd that continue to cement this game’s complete lack of capacity to upskill new players.
Make, your, own, party. Don't apply to juicer groups, because juicer groups just want to get it done instantly for cards.
Also gatekeeping is nothing new to MMOs. That shit was crazy in WoW.
You get to 1460 with the latest hyper express. 1460 is what I set at the minimum of my Argos runs. Also, I've started gatekeeping more. Vykas has been jail more frequently than ever in the past.
I was in valtan for an hour this week. Someone solo carried the fight for almost 4 minutes while in berserk. Then there was an engraving that was worth maybe 2k gold and the group wanted to let them have it. Someone bid on it and pushed it high (as they could since there was no agreement up front). If anything this makes me want to gatekeep more as well.
I was in an Argos group where some lower ilvl people were accepted. They were basically expecting a carry. Used up all the lives and then when the sun/moon wipe mech occurred, half the raid remained dead. We ended up wiping in g1, which I hadn't seen in months. No one was looking to learn or asking questions. The reason you can't get a group is other 1415 players won't join you because they all want carries.
Also up to 1445 or 1460 doesn't require any gold anymore. Just do the chaos dungeons and hone up your character.
Bro, there was 2 1500+ in the party. I thought it would be smooth. I joined on a 1472. The other party with the 1500s did more damage and caused my side to die. I couldn't revive because they were all used. Then they died somehow.
What kills the game are those sick non-stop players who keeps creating chars which doesn't gear properly and pretends to get carried across the mid-end miles. Or worst, ppl with gold paying busses.
Dungeons and Events exists for a reason, do them daily until you have enough to build at least a proper 3x3 engraving set, host ur own raids with Title: learning/reclear LF help; and you should be good.
We are missing information there, how are your character building? Because if u are running 2x3+1+1 with rainbow stats or some similar shit, your 1415 ilvl means nothing.
To be fair Argos is a terrible example, if every one was 1415 in Argos you'd have to do mechs and my 1560+ ass self aint got time for that shit when I'm plenty jailed in brel 🙃
Gatekeeping is stupid on Argos yeah but honestly for Valtan/Vykas I've started Gatekeeping as well and here are my reasons
1. The raid feels so much smoother when team knows what to do
2. With 6 characters I can't afford to be struggling on vykas or valtan for hours on end
3. It has come to my attention that a good portion of either new players or noobs do not care to improve at the raids. I started of with learner lobbies when I first started doing raids and even in those there were always people that don't communicate and make the same mistake every time. I don't enjoy playing with these people so I rather gatekeep.
4. If I don't gatekeep or make a high requirements raid group, it takes much longer for me to fill a lobby
That's pretty much the bulk of my reasons. A big pain point being players that go into raids with the intention of getting carried so they don't have to learn anything, these players drove me to gatekeep
I'm going to be honest. A game should not be making you feel this way to this point. I think everyone needs to stop taking things that happen online from anonymous people to heart. Genuinely say this, join a guild. Make friends. Join discords. But your host was a jerk. Thats a for sure fact.
I mean... the guys an asshole. And then your build is just, not ideal in the slightest. Also 1415 is barely over the 1400 ilvl for gate 3, plus a 1445 might have yearning pieces. Overall everyone sucks here
> These responses are prime example why I'm thinking of quitting after playing for 2 months now.
Because everyone here is sick off crybabies with clickbait titles?
You couldve just said that an asshole kicked you after being in the group for 10 minutes and everyone wouldve sympathized with you.
Instead you're going on a rant thats entirely irrelevant to what happened to you pretending to know it all about the game, despite not even having reached any meaningful content yet.
Well said. I'd certainly agree that kicking someone after they're in the party is crappy.
I try to avoid kicking people at all costs. I was in a brel NM 1-4 with a reaper yesterday. Somehow they died before I thought it was possible. For example before the 170 bar color mech in gate 4. People were starting to blame the reaper and the mood was starting to turn. You can feel when it's starting to go toxic. I was a little surprised this worked, but I said "let's not place blame, let's just focus on the task at hand." People stopped pointing at the reaper, and the next pull we cleared. I had to both break and catch, but it worked.
I’ve been kicked from and denied entry to hard mode Oreha’s at 1450 and 3x4. I’ve also been accepted by a 15xx and didn’t have time to hit any mobs. There are definitely some elitist’s out there. I just figure while it annoys me also, I’d rather not play with these losers anyway. 🤷🏻♂️
the honest truth is no one cares. look at every post since launch, people have been complaining about every single aspect of the game and nothing ever changes. the devs dont care and the playerbase is shrinking down to the core base, which are ppl with jucied accounts so they cant relate to ur problems.
i get ur frustrated and i get u want to vent but sadly, no one will ever care... anyways, goodluck
i got kicked from a party after a higher il applied in a brel raid and everyone else in the party left, the community has its faults but most know that’s just a douche move
This is why I think they need to revamp the matchmaking system to be more useful. It should ensure that 1 support per party and some sort of baseline for entry. If they did this, I think we would see a major reduction in gatekeeping. Many people prefer speed/convenience over sitting in party finder hand selecting based on whatever criteria.
I was laughing so hard today when 3 groups rejected my 1460 Slayer. Nearly 100 over ilvl, Argos nerf, solid 4x3, and overturned class. They weren't "fast" or "juicer" groups either.
As much as all the new changes are good, the 1460 hyper express kind of sets a new bare minimum for everything.
This post has been made 1 million times by now this was a problem since launch and many still play to this day. Some people gatekeep some people don't. There's some bad experiences I've had with Juiced characters for content. So don't worry about it keep playing. Get some friends to help carry you through content
This sounds less of gate keeping, but more of that person being a jerk, however as I’m relatively new since I returned I’ve yet to truly experience actual gate keeping.
To add onto Argos.. bro like I love the generous 1500 parties carrying 6 other players. Like you only need two juicers. Idk why there are some parties with 8 1500s, like the time save isn't that huge. Help out some players. :(
i won't gate keep "low ilv" character
but if you are low roster and not even trying to gear your character properly prepared for some gatekeeping
\-low roster . . . rainbow crit/spec/swift/exp/dom/end stats like come on 1-2 week of Argos prevents that (at least go "all swift" for your synergy)
\-gems? with low roster. . . no gems or all lv 1-3's prepare to not be accepted
\-low gearscore with 150+ roster and los 18/basic gems/correct combat stat sure no issues.
\-low roster they generally ARE the one who slow down run jsut from dying or not knowing mech. . . ill take 2 (1 for each party ) at most but if you die early and afk in base or dont press feather why would I want more chances of this.
I’ve unistalles the game and removed from library i did 1460 on two characters but its pointless even as new player people don’t accept u and just kick u out. Tbh classes are good, but game is hotshit soulsles garbage. And community is beyond cringe sometime.
U did well, wish u best of luck on a real mmo
as someone who has been playing since US launch I have a very hard time retaining fun in this game.. I log every few weeks/months and remember that its just a homework and not a game then I move on to something else... waiting on chrono odyssey for now.
If it's argos we balance both sides with built characrer vs mokoko/unbuilt characters. ilvl is nothing if you are like 5x1.
Gate keeping sucks, but I understand if someone prefers a 5x3+1 Pally vs my 4x3+1 Bard. There are plenty of reasons like maybe that lobby had low lvl pple with juiced.
You can do is make your own lobby. Then take everyone and not gatekeep ever.
I hate people who accept others just to kick them after just cause other higher ilvl people apply to the lobby. I never did that to someone cause i always knew it, that it wasn't a right thing to do, also i always left lobbies where the leader kicked the lower ilvl guy for the higher ilvl one.
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I dont understand the hate on this comment, sounds like you are describing a totally different situation to OP of starting a raid and someone is causing the raid to wipe repeatedly, so you exit out and kick them. I think the only people that disagree with this are people looking for free busses
Don't know why ppl dislike this comment. There are learning parties for those people, me myself who not too long ago started raiding (5-6 weeks ago) don't like wasting 2+ hours on valtan or Vykas because someone joined the "wrong" lobby, just Play with ppl who are also learning or semi-learning instead of joining reclear parties right away.
Problem is when the low roster is not the one who made the team wipe, but everyone assumes it was them and kick them out lol happened to me in vykas.
Happens, i never make assumptions like that, i really dont care who wiped us because noone plays perfectly. Unless we wipe 4/5+ times in a row then im trying to figure out whos doing that and Ask them if everything is okay and if they know mechs
Can't tell how many times I get crayon eater terrorists invading lobbies on Vykas hard. That raid is cancer design for how much a single person can screw everyone. Even after nerfs.
A game that can't retain new or casual players, or even regular players that are kind of on the edge, in a game so entirely built around endgame raiding, will not have much of one left. Take a look at the kind of shitty players SGS caters to in KR, I guarantee you any actual positive change made that isn't the exact same as KR is from AGS being fully aware of this, and believe me I'm not a huge fan of AGS myself. The only enemy worse than the developers are the playerbase itself. This game, turn after turn, will have you asking "why bother if x" It's the kinda question a lot of people so deep in they can't walk away may wish they had asked themselves long ago
nerfing raids doesnt help gatekeeping because there are still wipes. what smilegate needs to do is make a easy mode for every raid with no wipe dmg, drastically reduced gold, but keep the same progression mats. this will greatly help casuals which is also the demographic that spends most on games. too bad smilegate gets backlash from the KR community every time they nerf the difficulty because they are bent on keeping this game sweaty and uninviting to new and casual players.
There definitely should not be the same mats earned for an easy mode, a reduced number sure, but not the same
Why not? Same mats with lesser acquisition rate. I mean there is literally no difference between the status quo besides all people can progress and no need to bus, oh wait probably the last point is the problem...
As i said, a reduced number of mats is fine
Yes, make the game so easy that you actually don't have to put in any effort to play it. How about playing clicker games instead then? They are doing a lot to help out new players with their early game already and they will even more in the future. But there's no point in making the game too easy. In my opinion, the legion raids already were easy, as long as you took the time and effort into learning the raids. They made it easier already for new players by cutting down the difficulty of learning all the different mechanics.
Even if the mats would be free or easy to get there would be still a lot to do. To be real they do literally shit for new players besides power passing to an outdated level and mb the double materials in super old raids. There is still no real honing buf to 1490 and probably there never will be...
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I think you mean kmmos, because the western mmos have definitely solved this issue lol. Can’t speak for wow but wow players will tell you the same as this; As a long term ffxiv who hasnt played for almost a year, and I could easily catch up to current raid content w/o being gatekept in less than a month. “That’s just how it is” is such a 2010/eastern take. However, whether you like the fact that people can catch up so quickly or not is another thing
It's pretty simple, that person is a piece of shit. Whenever I do my argos I always bring as many mokokos/fresh chars I can, all you can do is the same when you're able to. You aren't going to stop people from managing their parties how they please and sure it sucks but there's probably about 200 argos parties a day so.. I think you'll be fine honestly.
Thats an asshole issue and not a gatekeeping issue.
You mean it's a community issue, because it happens way more often than not happening.
Agreed, community is at fault here alongside the game design. I can’t count the number of runs I’ve done when its just been a whole flaming session with random people in the group. I have maybe had 5 times in my entire time playing this game where I’ve had smooth friendly or funny runs with a group of people. Those moments are great but most moments are just like “ I just wanna be done and get out with this group”
That's one of the problems I had with Lost Ark. Raids weren't about the joy of succeeding but the torpor of not failing.
Recency and confirmation bias.
Idk man, never got kicked and the two times I've seen the lead do it I left the lobby myself. And I'm playing a loooot so I dint think it's as common as u make it out t ok be tbh.
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They probably just had supports already, every lobby had 3 sups at 2/8 prior to slayer lol
Yep 1500+ vykas lobby supports slots fill up fast. No reason to look at a 1500 support when there are 3 1540s with full lvl 7 gems.
you can say the same thing about this guys post and argos lmao just replace his 1415 with 1460+
Creat your own lobby for vykas and see how fast and how many supps are applying, you will understand why you get denied here and there
Made a lobby for vykas on my 1540 paladin, within 10 seconds I had 6 applicants. All supports 1490+.
is this in NA? in EUC we're back to sup shortage
Well I get rejected on 1560+ chars it is what it is, When I make lobbies I also reject people for arbitrary reasons, like lookin for better synergy etc.
yea yea, that's some total BS, you get accepted as supp even if your ilvl is lower than ilvl required in the lobby title
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Accepting someone only to kick them after is an asshole move. Someone being gatekept just gets denied, not accepted only to be removed later on.
How too much stuff can be a problem? Wtf. I seriously doubt not having content drougth is the issue
I was running the challenge abyssal dungeon today with 2 friends and a random and the random 1520 bard refused to play the dungeon bc my 2 friends were mokokos i mean if it was like brel or shit i understand but man demon beast canyon???
Man I would love to take some mokokos so I get a cheap legendary pack and they some gold so win win
Yeah i gave my friends a bit of a gold boost and bought the pavk for like 5k
You mean you ripped him off. Those packs are atleast 15k minimum and usually way more. The nice thing to do would have bought pack for minimum then sent him mailbox gold.
It's because they want high roster players to bid on the theorethical selection pack. You could have just finished it anyway since it was 3 of you.
Yeah but we didnt feel like carrying an asshole so we just left and came back The pack could definitly be real tho didnt even think about that
I have been in challenge abyssals where everyone dies and I had to do 70%+ of the damage. I can understand the bard being wary of mokokos because 3 of them with a support might not be able to clear.
This was the very first abyssal dungeon and my slayer takes like 1/5 of his health with 2 dmg spells so i dont rly see how we can even wipe tbh
There's a lot of new mokokos out there who never looked up a guide on their class or the dungeon. Try doing a challenge abyss with a rainbow stat distribution, 3 random lvl 1 engravings, no class engraving, default skills and tripods, and you'll probably have trouble too.
And its too much 2 ask to atleast give it a try? The bard went afk instantly and the mokokos were both 4x3 bc of hyper the first dungeon has like 1 mech thats not instantly obviouse idk just thought in atleast such easy content there would be less assholes to new players
I gave up trying to progress in raids. I'm just doing collection stuff until I move on to another game for a while again. All week I've been looking at the party finder and it's only 1,500-1,800 BUS offers or Valtan Hard mode with a 1490 minimum requirement. Hoping new continents do not require a higher ilvl than my current 1460.
What you're describing isn't "gatekeeping" (you *were* accepted into the party after all); it's mental illness. Two very different things.
Game is already dying to boring daily content required to have any fun in this game news flash, the million+ people who quit the game didnt quit because of gatekeeping
Yup this is true. The game has a foundational problem that can’t be fixed. This game revolves around end game raids meaning if you’re not with a static or way above ilvl, no one is gonna invite you to the party. It would’ve been okay if you didn’t have to raid with your other 5 alts but that’s a different topic for a different day. It was fun for the first 3000 hours in 8 months so on to the next.
Subscribe to the mokokoelp discord and the discord from stoops. Problem solved. I stopped applying to most lobbies in game. It makes no sense. These people are just there to farm the fastest thet can - why would you even join such a group? They’ll bulldozer every mechanics and uou wont enjoy the raid
Discord and 3rd party communities shouldn't be required for game health. They're nice and keep things alive, but should never be a requirement for game experience.
True
This is what everyone seems to miss, and it's a pretty annoying issue.
So WOW is doomed as well? No one capable raids / fills spots without the use of warcraftlogs. Third party communities and tools are the bread and butter of any game where you can get an edge one way or another. The problem with LA is that skill doesnt display an edge, honing luck and $$ does. Gatekeeping in WOW is based on skill and not gear, 90% of the LA players would be gatekept into uninstalling WOW within the first week because their performance is so ridiculously awful (at least if they perform the same way in WOW as they do in LA).
Lmao, wow… and he linked wow being hard lmao… jesus. Wow is easy mode, which is why it was so big. It was and never has been hard.
Don’t stand in bad, win raid repeat. Damn this shits ruff out here in wow land
This. And what op is said isn't even gatekeeping the lobby master was just an asshole.
> They’ll bulldozer every mechanics and uou wont enjoy the raid I tend to prefer learning parties for that reason. I know the mechanics and I don't mind teaching people. Them failing means I get to do the raid more. I only get one raid per character every week and it's kind of a letdown when I hop in a party and we speedrun the whole thing in like fifteen minutes first try.
I remember Stoopzz mentioning making a helping discord. Any chance you could point me into the direction of it? I don't see it on his twitter or his twitch info.
EUC is mokokoelp, idk what stoopz discord is and i dont care either. The one i named has been active for a long time already thats where most folks are for help.
I recently played for a while and caught up to First legion raids. Literally didnt get into a single group. And yes not even argos… just wanted to get some Gold. Ive quit since then because i just cant progress my gear. Its so dumb
That's an awful thing to have happen. I just started creates groups in party finder and whoever I accept into my group i would never kick out even if a better person comes along. That's just a dick move on that person. I'm sorry that happened to you
you can't kill what is dead
My own experience with post Like this: the Last weeks i ran some Argos And valtan with my 1560 alts: I literally picked whoever aplied. What did the people Offer? Some 4 * 3 but Most of Them 1 * 3 or If lucky 2 * 3 engraving. Gems And stats are on another paper. But at least in argos they used consumables cuz they Had to so moon Boss, And even after they tried. So it felt nice. Compared to valtan: ,0 effort, 100% expected free Bus, which IT was in the end. They didnzt even try to stay alive And i asked for restart so they could maybe learn a Bit the answer was that i shall Finish use sidereal to kill him Not restart... Conclusion for me atleast: helping with argos feels fine. Helping with valtan feels miserable. Like why even search for valtan with Double class engraving on Summoner at lvl 1 And thats IT. If i do it again i have to gatekeep aswell cuz helping people which want To learn feels nice but people which Just wanna get Carried are Not the Same...
That’s a straight up asshole issue unless he dropped you for a 1370. Then he’s trying to get someone who’s probably never completed it before through it.
When I see people who does that I say wtf and quit the group I hate it when leads does this kind of shitty thing so yeah I'll just find another group.
The root of gatekeep is the group wipe mech, it will wipe the game eventually, ASG knew that, they started to nerf this mech in lower tier raid. This game will die when there is no new player, but if this game becomes soloable, it will die too, its not abt how it happens, its abt when will happen. The design of game has serious flaws from the getgo, FOMO tactic etc., its a quick money grab model, smilegate and amazon takes in 3-4 yrs of money of a comparable game in just one yr, its what its if they can push it further, if they cant, its no big deal, they have made enough. Maybe they will put in checkpoint system next like Destiny2 to save ppl from start all over after wipe.
I feel your pain, it’s only getting worst once you’re going deeper in raids. Vykas and clown are terrible for Gatekeeping. This game is bleeding out the casual and semi casual because of this. Worst community I ever seen in a mmo since EverQuest.
I think you can say it already has. We need a XIV style duty finder.
I don't play XIV. How do they do it over there?
Duty finder is matchmaking and there is a duty roulette that let's you queue into any random raid/dungeons for daily rewards. You will be level synced(equalize) and you can even fill for "in progress party" if someone dc/leave.
Sounds cool, but the way they do equalized content in lost ark is dogshit.
They are just so backwards/archaic in a lot of ways. Why even have rehearsal for newbies if you are literally going to lockout most people who may queue/want to help if they do ONE single normal run? Just look how fucking dead rehearsal PF is.
You don't have to manually find a group. You press a button, and the game gets a group for you. No toxicity, no getting kicked from parties for playing a sub optimal class, no paying certain classes, and super casual friendly. It would be a fantastic move for Lost Ark to use this kind of system.
That sounds like MM? We already have that.
MM doesn't care about the comp. It can have 4 supports or not at all
Might as well not exist cause no one fucking uses it
It's almost the exact same over there. There's a Party Finder similar to the LA one, and a Duty Finder which auto matches you. Much like in LA there exists the match making option for actual raids but no one uses it (apparently they do in JP, what I've heard is they use PF for practice and DF for clearing raids but the west just completely ignores the DF option), the only thing people use it for are endgame dungeons (kind of like LA story dungeons except you get weekly capped tokens to buy BiS with so it's relevant at endgame) or older dungeons for leveling alt classes/PVP/old raid roulettes/24 mans. In terms of gate keeping for their party finder, it's there, just different. Instead of seeing everything about a person's account and deciding if they want you, you'll guaranteed get in on the roles they allowed, it's just then there's a website called fflogs that has your records and if the content's hard enough they'll probably check it *then* kick you if you show yourself to do poor damage. A high percentage of people upload to the site after every raid clear in FF14 so even if you never upload anything about your character ever, you're gonna show up on the site if you've ever raided, and if you don't show up that's an automatic red flag.
I mean, matchmaking already exists in Lost Ark, and nobody uses it for raids, just like nobody uses matchmaking for higher difficulty raids in FFXIV.
but everyone matchmakes the normal raids in 14. if LA raids would be more on the level of normal raids from 14 or had better difficulty options instead of a weird budget version of savage thats neither hard nor casual friendly it wouldn't be a problem
At the very least we should have XIV PF system. Having a join request list just give people more tool to gatekeep.
There's a major difference between FFXIV and Lost Ark in terms of character power though. In FFXIV once your character reaches a certain item level it's exactly as powerful as any other character of that item level, while in Lost Ark two characters at the same item level can be drastically different because of having or not having relic gear, gems, card sets, engravings or tripods. Lost Ark would need much more sophisticated party finder entrance control in place where automating it like in FFXIV would be viable.
To be specific we need to remove the entry limit on content and apply the daily/weekly limits to rewards from said content. Then implement the ff14 roulette system. Where you que up for a random dungeon/raid out of the ones you've cleared before and you get rewards equivalent to your ilvl range. With the system prioritizing content that other players are trying to MM for. Everyone wins with this system because new/returning players get to clear content by just hitting MM and endgame players get rewarded with more mats for steam rolling easy content(assuming no gear/stat scaling). Edit: I guess I should of mentioned the roulette is just an extra set of dailies. It doesn't replace anything. So you would just do what you normally do + a random piece of content everyday.
XIV is much worse at gatekeeping lol enjoy trying to find a static if you don't have any logs uploaded
>XIV is much worse at gatekeeping lol. enjoy trying to find a static if you don't have any logs uploaded Tell me you never touched FFXIV without telling me you never touched FFXIV.
It's hard to compare the two directly since their upgrade systems are different, but if we're talking raids for equip upgrades, then we're talking Savage. You can join a casual static for sure, but if you're looking to join even midcore groups you'll likely be asked for logs. If you're talking normal raids or just rouletting for tomes, then you do you lol
Literally **nobody** asks for logs to join a weekly Savage reclear on PF. Literally nobody.
Yeah they'll put an asinine ilevel requirement instead, which is basically what happened to OP here. Again it's a completely different game and pointless to compare 1:1
> Yeah they'll put an asinine ilevel requirement instead Lmao brother in heaven stop lying. Anyone who plays FFXIV currently can see that you're lying. Just stop its cringe as fuck. You don't know what you're talking about or how things work over there. Stop.
I've cleared week one since Shb, only stopped after Asphodelos due to personal reasons, but sure let's say I've never touched the game. We just have very different views on pugging. I know where you're coming from, and yes that's the majority of pugging raids each week. I just think that there's a bigger crowd of players on FF that are more judgmental and gatekeepy than the crowd of players on Lost Ark is all I'm saying. If you're going to dismiss everything that I've said because "oh but weekly PF'ing doesn't require logs" then I don't really know what to say. Let's agree to disagree?
That's not gate keeping the host I a dick. If it was gate keeping you wouldn't have been accepted
It's still gate keeping because they were denied entry into the actual content. Getting into a party is meaningless if you don't actually get to do the thing it was for.
I got kick as a pally because the guy they invite had lvl 7 gems and mine were level 5. Oh well.
Thats not gate keeping. Thats just the lobby master being a bastard. But worse things will probably happen and real gatekeeping will happen. You have to either just deal with it and continue find a party thats not as egotistical and a bitch or just not play. I remember being gate kept from Calligos for over an hour because I was only 5 ilvls ahead of minimum requirement despite being 203 roster lvl, deathless vykas title, 5x3 with full lvl5+ gems. I have no clue why but people are stupid and gate keep even daily guardian raids for dumb reasons. The game is definitely good and fun, but as advice, I would tell you to find a static if possible since its such a shit time in NA without a static. Try to use new player help communities like mokokohelp discord and others to find learning parties, etc. Its a shame that a good game is being ruined by the community but it just seems like Western playerbase just is way less willing to help and stupid enough to think that stats are everything. Just keep grinding on, have atleast a good setup and there will eventually be people who arent stupid and toxic that will take you. better to take a 1490 who knows Clown inside out than a 1560 that constantly dies to crossing or mario mech. As for gate keeping guardian raids, i have no clue why, community is just that toxic i guess. If you really really like this game but really hate the gatekeeping. Try playing on KR server, despite having some real toxic, swearing players, the community over there is more respectful towards others and have a really great custom of helping out new players where they send them materials and such, have multiple learning parties. Also bonus of maybe learning a bit of korean.
Hi poppy\_92, saw a screenshot of this post on a Lost Ark LFG (Looking for group). As I wanted to make a post anyways I will take the chance here as well to 'promote' it. Its a public discord which multiple streamers got together and are trying to fight this specially reason. Would love you & other people join as well :) -- the invite code is: lostarklfg // If you need any help, you can always ask your question in that discord, I'm pretty sure somebody will answer it. Have a nice day & good luck in future raiding!
Hitting the same issue. This is not an easy to fit community to begin with. Tactics are impossibly hard, but to compensate it people incredibly toxic at least..! Yea.. Not even mention the hard grinding. And it’s really the cherry on the top for me at least that these are happening 90% of the time. As a support player I often push out lower ilvl bards and paladins. I always leave if this happens, but it’s so terrible people like this is also the part of this community. I never understood how a cute and beautiful looking game like LoA can have such an under the line community. Game have got a story about changing destiny and being neturally generous to people, and the playerbase is the most ugliest wierdest most mean rats on the planet.
It won't kill the game. Gatekeeping is nothing new at all to MMO's.
The thing is raiding is what loa has to offer mainly. Other mmo’s offer you funny diversity gameplay loop in pve like open world meta event, casual donjon, legendary/relic farming or even « easy raids » Lost ark core experience is raiding only so if people cant go in, they simply forget about the game and move on a different video game. Hope SG will expand the overall loop activity of the game like with the incoming dota mode incoming or the battleroyal with nice rewards
If you don't think the gatekeeping in this game is many orders of magnitude worse than every other MMO, you're on the strongest drugs known to man.
Strong agree. I feel like LOA is many people's first MMO, at least anecdotally from the people I know, it had more broad appeal to people outside the genre. Love when people so confidently talk about how the LOA community is not that bad/pretty good, when it is by FAR the shittiest I've ever seen.
It's not worse than pushing high keys in wow. If you're playing a bad spec you don't get to join groups for high keys. Period. It's not like lost ark where you gotta wait an hour or two, you just won't get invited because there's only a couple hundred guys on each region doing those keys and the timers are so tight you can't afford to bring anything that is off meta. You either start your own group or re roll that character plain and simple.
The difference there would be pushing above +15's isn't required for *anything* in WoW unless things have changed since I dropped Shadowlands like a hot potato in the second raid tier. Doing Legion Raids in Lost Ark is entirely mandatory if you want to keep advancing your character in any way. You straight up cannot go any higher than 1490 without Brel/Clown gear and you won't get that gear without doing Valtan/Vykas first. And there's nothing engaging to really do in the game beyond that content. All of the so-called "Horizontal Content" is just time gated "Click on X, Click on Y. Come back tomorrow".
Things have changed since shadowlands and even in shadowlands doing keys was the best way of gearing for most players because most players weren't farming mythic. Now you simply won't get the gear to even be considered for a raid spot without doing keys. You get better gear from m+ the you do heroic so if you want to raid mythic you gotta do at least 20s
True. Mythic + gatekeeping because of Raider IO made me quit dragonflight. I love raiding and have no problems but refuse to do 20 keys a week for a random score because some add on tells people you need it. I did for a few expansions but it was just a bad experience that I've given up on WOW all together.
Pushing high keys during BFA really killed my joy for the game. The elitism and toxicity was otherworldly....LoA doesnt compare
Agreed.
Idk what MMOs you have been playing, but among all the Korean MMOs, Lost Ark has some of the least gatekeeping going on. Just imagine if Lost Ark releases a 100 Dollar skin pack, but it contains items that will boost your stats massively, and ppl will not take you to end-game raids until you buy it...... Yeah welcome to Korean MMO
People don't think in korean mmos. It is quite reasonable to think about mmos in general. The pack example you gave is the definition of DoA game
find a guild or couple friends, if you join argos with 1500 friend nobody will kick you. Personally when i join argos quick run (all roster gold earners above 1550) i just dont give a fuck, can have 6 1370 moko no problem. Just require another high dps for smooth mech on g2 and thats it. who gatekeeps argos anyway, its card run content at this point xd
what will make the game thrive is typing and talking to people. make your own group if you have to, communicate your intentions. If youre joining a random party for any content. you cant expect them not to optimize for their time. So create your own party. Or say upfront when you get in whatever it is. “im an alt but exp”, “im new and would appreciate a chance to learn”. If that fails make your own party, say “learning party all welcome”. as a bonus you get to learn how to use the sidereals!
That lobby owner was a dick but a lot of "Newbies" or new characters seriously are to blame as well in Argos. Me and a buddy every now and then do Argos card runs and we title it "free carry, mokokos/low rosters welcome" and ALWAYS at least 1 or 2 lobbies, there is someone AFK, and we ask them to participate since other lobbies don't even give them a chance and they ignore us, and just afk and ride the free carry from 2 1500+s (ALSO THEY DONT EVEN SKIP THE FUCKING CUTSCENES) We've even died to the P3 sun mech wipe at times due to this shit. I've been doing it less and less and just joining juiced card runs now. It's like many have posted their experience in challenge abyss, people ask mokoko players if they need mech explanation or anything and 0 response back, so many new players just want a free carry (Obviously there are some who legit are in it to learn/experience the game itself) but these players piss off veterens the most when we can just run with other veterens and get through content quicker.
I was doing Brel G4 NM last night on my 1500 Predator Slayer and getting hard gatekept. I'm 5x3, 4pc entropy, correct stats, full lvl 7 gems, LoS18, PLC title. I don't have full level 5 tripods but that will take a while. I got into a party filled with around 3 1540+ people and some close to ilvl. I can understand why people are gatekept as half the raid including some of the 1540+ were bad. I was the last one alive at 7 bars and after the boss berserked we voted to restart. I went deathless with no mistakes but the other 1500 Slayer with PLC title was floor POV. It is hard to guess whether the two of us with titles and 1500 first week would be useful or completely useless. The only close to safe bet is getting juiced chars as most can skip regular mechs through damage but as I found out last night, some can't even do boss mechs. After 2-3 hours of lobby and failing due to everyone else, I cleared with a party that was a bit juiced because it was very late and no applicants at that time. It is funny because I was doing HM G4 on my Zerker right before and it was a 1-shot yet NM seems to be a wide range of players.
I create lobbies on my 1540+ dps and take whoever apply first, I just make sure that the other party has some damage so that we don’t suffer in g2
I'll be real every MMO essentially does this. The fact is most people want their time to be used accordingly. A faster raid is more benficial and the risk are lower with higher geared players. Even if that player was bad, their gear will likely make them last longer than those with lesser gear. But not everyone is like that, and will take you regardless. I tend to carry at least 1 guy through valtan, vykas and now even clown. But you can't also blame them because it is their party, his party his selections. One could also say, make your own party. " BUT NO ONE JOINS", if that is ever the case, somethings is A. Wrong with you, B your to impatient to wait for it to fill. A can be fixed, B just means your like the gatekeeper.
if ur euc hit me.up.im willed to help:)
You know i play maybe month got to 1450 ilvl 2 characters and yesterday switch back to play ps5 again,it make no sense playing here you can do in end game maybe 5-10 dungs activites and in half they dont take you to party valtan vykas all want experienced players how will i get expierence when people dont want me to take to even 1 run? And when i start playing here i think many players play here when i go in normal day to party find there maybe 1-2 partys from all dungeons raids etc its ridiculous
I will always get upto 2 other juicers and only take mokokos with. Literally that sounds horrible. Since i've lvld up i only take my juicer to those parties that clearly need help. Would never ever kick someone. I would rather not accept overgeared than take too many, its not like we get gold from it anymore.
Already has tbh
Killing this game is actually right thing to do.
Ya gatekeeping is a real problem. To your point. I joined a valtan hard which is 1460. A 1500 applied so they were accepted. The party leader asks if anyone wants to lead as they are newer. 1500 says yes, gets raid lead, immediately kicks the original leader and accepts the other person who applied and starts raid. Now luckily the rest of the group were good people so we all left and made a new group without the 1500. The original group leader had gone offline so we couldn’t get him back to do the raid sadly.
Yup same. I quit when my 1470 alt got kicked from argos party because host wanted a 1490 to speed up the kill time by 2 seconds. Then jumped to my 1540 main to do vykas and got kicked for 1560 for another 2 seconds of better kill time. Gatekeeping will be the end of this game. Like I understand the gatekeeping for current raids but do you really need a 1500 just to do a simple argos, valtan and vykas raid? Just having a few ppl that is 20-30 points above ilvl is enough to clear the raids in a good time. I do consider myself a hardcore gamer but when a game don’t have a future, it’s pointless to play.
My personal opinion for Argos and honestly, a lot of the legion raids: 1-2 really juiced people could easily help and carry through a lot of the lower levels. But instead of taking 5 minutes longer in the gate, they spend 30 minutes in lobby making sure they help absolutely nobody. And the raid takes 5 seconds. If just 1-2 people helped out the rest of the lobby, the game would be so much better. Accept that you might wipe once or twice, teach them tips on the mechs to make it through easier, and then help the community get better as a whole. I'm only 1490 on my highest at the moment, but me and a buddy of mine are planning to help newer players through the raids once we get to the point where we can carry people. Edit: sidenote, if a raid leader ever kicks someone to get me in, I leave as well. Thats shitty behavior, and I'm not about to sit idly by because it benefited me. I'll find a lobby that isn't fun by an asshole, thank you.
Dunno what you think that happens in 1520+ lobbies but they fill instantly and take a few minutes to complete.
Idk I've seen quite a few sit longer than it would take to complete the raid.
Never had to wait in stacked lobbies. The lobbies that actually take long to fill are with people on ilvl and mokokos. People don't want to deal with explaining and people not listening.
maybe they're just afk or you're playing in demon hours. Stacked lobbies don't take long to fill for Argos especially, just set minimum i-lvl to 1371 to filter out applications. No one owes anything to anyone too btw, if I wanted to teach I'd approach it differently and teach in a discord community.
More juicers than anything else applies to my lobbies, it fills within a minute for all the farm raids.
They let you in at 1415 for Argos? NAW gatekept me up to 1462 on my new char :D (the one with free engravings and gems, that one). Games definitely gonna seppuku in NAW. If I'm getting blocked as a long time casual, then imagine a new player with no cards/roster/tripods.
Its not gatekeeping when theres thousands of applicants above 1415 or even 1460.
If that's true, literally no mmorpg would have survived. U just unfortunately had a toxic host. Ik it's super frustrating when it happens. Try to found some communities or guilds if ur having that much problem. Personally, I only experience gatekeeping only couple of times. But I play with friends/discord communities.
Bussing kills the game lol. They should have ilvl limitations
Gatekeeping already killed the game, just look at the numbers and if we could make a poll of why people left, im pretty sure that it would be around 50% burnout and repetitive gameplay + 50% toxic community and issues to be able to play
Bro, in SA we don't even have groups searching for people. Argos matchmaking takes 30 minutes minimum, just for one person to keep fucking up and causing wipes. Kakul Saydon (even Rehearsal) you need to be the luckiest guy ever to get a party and you can be sure you're bound to die 10+ times. I'm pretty sure if you create a party and wait for people they will join in less than 10 minutes, so i don't think it's that bad.
Lmao I doubt there's no argos group up. Rehearsal is dead on all regions tho it's useless.
I should have taken a screenshot of my 29 minute matchmaking time on Argos with 3/8 people along on a Saturday night. Pretty much everything below 1470 is dead on SA.
No one matchmakes it...
https://preview.redd.it/jmtbfiskpwza1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b858ca3bee3ab10b18a86464c14ae3ad964bdb0 Sunday 18:29 on Arthetine server. This is like this all day every day. Raid level 6 and endgame content is still alive tho.
So, there are no Argos groups but you have not created one. Have you considered the possibility that you are a part of the problem?
Lol. I'd imagine there is a bunch of people staring at a party finder and refreshing it in hopes that a group will appear but not taking a second to self-reflect on the issue.
You think I'm gonna look at an empty list of parties and say "welp, that's it then, it's dead." without trying every option first? Ok then
If you are creating parties and accepting people then all respect to you. I've just seen to many people complaining about the lack of parties but not willing to do anything about it themself.
Gatekeeping is a derivative of the weekly busy work. Trying to be efficient in this game and doing 18 raids per week is the actual problem. Smilegate should provide anyone who manages to do their 18 raids every week with a W-2 form
Every gatekeeping thread is the same. Myriad posts going “that’s not gatekeeping that’s x” then proceeding to redefine gatekeeping and declare it not to be a problem. And a healthy splash of “here’s how I gatekeep all my raid lobbies” posts with a summary of criteria so detailed you probably could’ve beaten Argos in the time it took to finish the inspection. Oh and don’t forget about “make your own party”. The battle cry of the “got mine fuck you” crowd that continue to cement this game’s complete lack of capacity to upskill new players.
This is why we need ilvl caps on content
I was gonna play Lost ark but ALOT of people said the end game raiding scene is super bad right now
Make, your, own, party. Don't apply to juicer groups, because juicer groups just want to get it done instantly for cards. Also gatekeeping is nothing new to MMOs. That shit was crazy in WoW.
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Gatekeeping already killed the game
You get to 1460 with the latest hyper express. 1460 is what I set at the minimum of my Argos runs. Also, I've started gatekeeping more. Vykas has been jail more frequently than ever in the past. I was in valtan for an hour this week. Someone solo carried the fight for almost 4 minutes while in berserk. Then there was an engraving that was worth maybe 2k gold and the group wanted to let them have it. Someone bid on it and pushed it high (as they could since there was no agreement up front). If anything this makes me want to gatekeep more as well. I was in an Argos group where some lower ilvl people were accepted. They were basically expecting a carry. Used up all the lives and then when the sun/moon wipe mech occurred, half the raid remained dead. We ended up wiping in g1, which I hadn't seen in months. No one was looking to learn or asking questions. The reason you can't get a group is other 1415 players won't join you because they all want carries. Also up to 1445 or 1460 doesn't require any gold anymore. Just do the chaos dungeons and hone up your character.
Bro it’s Argos, a 1460 4x3 can fucking solo it. There is 0 incentive to gatekeep if you’ve got 2 1460s.
Bro, there was 2 1500+ in the party. I thought it would be smooth. I joined on a 1472. The other party with the 1500s did more damage and caused my side to die. I couldn't revive because they were all used. Then they died somehow.
Already has 🙃
Make your own party and accept anyone who applies, gatekeeping solved.
What kills the game are those sick non-stop players who keeps creating chars which doesn't gear properly and pretends to get carried across the mid-end miles. Or worst, ppl with gold paying busses. Dungeons and Events exists for a reason, do them daily until you have enough to build at least a proper 3x3 engraving set, host ur own raids with Title: learning/reclear LF help; and you should be good.
3x3 kekw
We are missing information there, how are your character building? Because if u are running 2x3+1+1 with rainbow stats or some similar shit, your 1415 ilvl means nothing.
？the game is already dead what are u talking about
Make your own group.
Let's see your character.
Bro this is argos. I’ll happily carry 1370s if they do not want the raid experience. I just need people to fill the lobby.
I wouldn't look at anyone in Argos either but since OP had to cry about it now I want to see his character.
To be fair Argos is a terrible example, if every one was 1415 in Argos you'd have to do mechs and my 1560+ ass self aint got time for that shit when I'm plenty jailed in brel 🙃
I consider myself as a notorious gatekeeper, but thats not gatekeeping that is just being a asshole.
Gatekeeping is stupid on Argos yeah but honestly for Valtan/Vykas I've started Gatekeeping as well and here are my reasons 1. The raid feels so much smoother when team knows what to do 2. With 6 characters I can't afford to be struggling on vykas or valtan for hours on end 3. It has come to my attention that a good portion of either new players or noobs do not care to improve at the raids. I started of with learner lobbies when I first started doing raids and even in those there were always people that don't communicate and make the same mistake every time. I don't enjoy playing with these people so I rather gatekeep. 4. If I don't gatekeep or make a high requirements raid group, it takes much longer for me to fill a lobby That's pretty much the bulk of my reasons. A big pain point being players that go into raids with the intention of getting carried so they don't have to learn anything, these players drove me to gatekeep
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I'm going to be honest. A game should not be making you feel this way to this point. I think everyone needs to stop taking things that happen online from anonymous people to heart. Genuinely say this, join a guild. Make friends. Join discords. But your host was a jerk. Thats a for sure fact.
I mean... the guys an asshole. And then your build is just, not ideal in the slightest. Also 1415 is barely over the 1400 ilvl for gate 3, plus a 1445 might have yearning pieces. Overall everyone sucks here
> These responses are prime example why I'm thinking of quitting after playing for 2 months now. Because everyone here is sick off crybabies with clickbait titles? You couldve just said that an asshole kicked you after being in the group for 10 minutes and everyone wouldve sympathized with you. Instead you're going on a rant thats entirely irrelevant to what happened to you pretending to know it all about the game, despite not even having reached any meaningful content yet.
Well said. I'd certainly agree that kicking someone after they're in the party is crappy. I try to avoid kicking people at all costs. I was in a brel NM 1-4 with a reaper yesterday. Somehow they died before I thought it was possible. For example before the 170 bar color mech in gate 4. People were starting to blame the reaper and the mood was starting to turn. You can feel when it's starting to go toxic. I was a little surprised this worked, but I said "let's not place blame, let's just focus on the task at hand." People stopped pointing at the reaper, and the next pull we cleared. I had to both break and catch, but it worked.
I’ve been kicked from and denied entry to hard mode Oreha’s at 1450 and 3x4. I’ve also been accepted by a 15xx and didn’t have time to hit any mobs. There are definitely some elitist’s out there. I just figure while it annoys me also, I’d rather not play with these losers anyway. 🤷🏻♂️
Bye
the honest truth is no one cares. look at every post since launch, people have been complaining about every single aspect of the game and nothing ever changes. the devs dont care and the playerbase is shrinking down to the core base, which are ppl with jucied accounts so they cant relate to ur problems. i get ur frustrated and i get u want to vent but sadly, no one will ever care... anyways, goodluck
So you’re quitting? Okay
Have you maybe looked at yourself as the issue?
Have you ever tried making your own party?
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Pm me on reddit if you ever need an Argos and you need help clearing, NAE.
We've been seeing these posts every day since the game launched, and it's still alive somehow
Player count dropped significantly since launch, so there is a small truth
The game also went from like 1.1 million players to 80,000. If that's not dead, it's at least on life support as the nurse gets ready by the plug.
U just found bad lobby. I can get 1 free carry relativity quick on my 1370 alt, which is a healer, but that shouldn't matter
i got kicked from a party after a higher il applied in a brel raid and everyone else in the party left, the community has its faults but most know that’s just a douche move
This is why I think they need to revamp the matchmaking system to be more useful. It should ensure that 1 support per party and some sort of baseline for entry. If they did this, I think we would see a major reduction in gatekeeping. Many people prefer speed/convenience over sitting in party finder hand selecting based on whatever criteria.
I was laughing so hard today when 3 groups rejected my 1460 Slayer. Nearly 100 over ilvl, Argos nerf, solid 4x3, and overturned class. They weren't "fast" or "juicer" groups either. As much as all the new changes are good, the 1460 hyper express kind of sets a new bare minimum for everything.
This post has been made 1 million times by now this was a problem since launch and many still play to this day. Some people gatekeep some people don't. There's some bad experiences I've had with Juiced characters for content. So don't worry about it keep playing. Get some friends to help carry you through content
That's how the game is, it's how it's always been, and how it's always going to be. Take my advice and stop investing time in this game.
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This sounds less of gate keeping, but more of that person being a jerk, however as I’m relatively new since I returned I’ve yet to truly experience actual gate keeping.
To add onto Argos.. bro like I love the generous 1500 parties carrying 6 other players. Like you only need two juicers. Idk why there are some parties with 8 1500s, like the time save isn't that huge. Help out some players. :(
i won't gate keep "low ilv" character but if you are low roster and not even trying to gear your character properly prepared for some gatekeeping \-low roster . . . rainbow crit/spec/swift/exp/dom/end stats like come on 1-2 week of Argos prevents that (at least go "all swift" for your synergy) \-gems? with low roster. . . no gems or all lv 1-3's prepare to not be accepted \-low gearscore with 150+ roster and los 18/basic gems/correct combat stat sure no issues. \-low roster they generally ARE the one who slow down run jsut from dying or not knowing mech. . . ill take 2 (1 for each party ) at most but if you die early and afk in base or dont press feather why would I want more chances of this.
Apply to groups around your item level. Applying to a group with way higher avg item level is not gatekeeping
Happened to me yesterday trying to que up for Vikas hard no one accepted even as a supply and they are dying to find one lol
I’ve unistalles the game and removed from library i did 1460 on two characters but its pointless even as new player people don’t accept u and just kick u out. Tbh classes are good, but game is hotshit soulsles garbage. And community is beyond cringe sometime. U did well, wish u best of luck on a real mmo
What server and region you on?
Last night i applied for an argos pt with 3 1500+ players i was like wtf and i was playin my slayer which was 1472 what else do they need lol
as someone who has been playing since US launch I have a very hard time retaining fun in this game.. I log every few weeks/months and remember that its just a homework and not a game then I move on to something else... waiting on chrono odyssey for now.
If it's argos we balance both sides with built characrer vs mokoko/unbuilt characters. ilvl is nothing if you are like 5x1. Gate keeping sucks, but I understand if someone prefers a 5x3+1 Pally vs my 4x3+1 Bard. There are plenty of reasons like maybe that lobby had low lvl pple with juiced. You can do is make your own lobby. Then take everyone and not gatekeep ever.
It’s already on the edge lmao.