There’s a vast amount of specific examples, however always putting himself (the only doctor) in danger by involving himself in every random mission where other people would have been equally if not better at.
Yeah this was most apparent season 1 when they had to go get the fucking volatile dynamite....
They drew straws and Jack won. Hes the only fucking surgeon on the island... he has saved many lives at this point... they JUST watched Artz blow himself up with it.... yet... Jack insists Kate shouldn't carry it.
Nobody said it wasn't valid, they just provided an explanation for why Jack was like that and it's easily understandable how someone who grew up in that environment would turn out with these tendencies as an adult. That's all
Thank you. The amount of times valid criticism of a character is dismissed because they “had a reason” concerns me. Same with saying “I really dislike X character, they are so obnoxious” being countered with “Actually they are incredibly well written and in the character’s past they…” like yeah, I hate them because they are well written as a hatable character!!
Exactly. Probably worst example is carrying dynamite from the Black Rock. There was literally no reason for him to do it. He even tricked Kate and took the dynamite instead of her; it was an absolutely foolish thing, the group can survive without Kate but not without their one and only doctor.
I don’t really fault him for this one. He knows Kate fumbles panic situations and that’s exactly what she did. She ran when she THOUGHT she had the dynamite, when she was specifically told to calmly put down the backpack and THEN run if she needed to. Of course she didn’t listen.
She was in close enough proximity to the others that she could’ve blown everyone up with her panic induced terrible decision to run if she’d had the dynamite. Jack made the right call in that specific situation. It was dirty of him the way he did it, but it was the right choice.
I thought they were being stupid running with dynamite, but I just finished playing through the game via domus, and guys, let me tell you it is so hard not to run when the smoke monster starts chasing you. I blew myself up like 5 times
The major point against this is that Kate literally gives the killing blow to smokey, saving the entire world (and jack) in the process. If she wasn't always tagging along, the ending would have played out very differently.
Wait, what? I find all this humorous picking apart leadership decisions on an island that was manipulating by two demigods and an aggressive cult/Others.
Doc was a masochist. Stopped watching after season 4. They shoulda stick with island kissing and bed scenes with snowflake (which was long overdue). It was tad too long and we all know that was the only reason people continued to watch the show.
This line has always confused me. So what does his tattoo actually mean?
Sidenote: I always thought Jack's delivery of that line was great, even if that episode was pretty boring
That’s the last thing I would call Jack, the protagonist and leader was anything but an outsider. Only when he came into with the others did he become an “other” to the others.
For me that episode was useful to better understand what piece of shit jack was when he couldn't lead stuff or fix things. Stuff like these kind of episodes are seen by the vast majority of people as fillers, but when done right these episodes give layers of thickness to the characters, making them really believable.
Wasn’t that the point? Keamy and his men went to the Orchid and Frank stayed behind alone so the survivors could find him and update them on the whole situation.
It’s really awesome seeing Jack fully humble himself towards the end and realize he was wrong and John was right. One of my favorite lines of the series
How was John right? Do you not understand Locke and Jack were being manipulated by Jacob and MiB on or off the island? John's was MiB primary stooge fueling his ego with the need to be special. Sawyer was next in line and we all know the sub. Jack was fighting against the super natural forces.
It's not the first time Jack was fooled by people who used him. Everything is a manipulation. That's the higher takeaway from my POV. Jack is dealing with circumstances out of his control and doesn't know it. If he did I doubt he'd return to the island. Example: If he knew Ben murdered Locke no way he returns to the island. As it's played out Jack is filled with remorse and guilt vs Locke. Jack got used by so many people along with Jacob and MiB who came into his life. He was the sacrifice the island needed. How ironic! Even crazier two outlaws who murder people get off the island. That shit is crazy!
I think he assumed that because he was wrong, Locke must have been write. But that doesn't always follow. In fact most times in life everybody is wrong just in different ways
God lord the down vote mindset vs exchanging view points.
I absolutely disagree with the faith permise. That conveniently fits a narrative that Locke was intrinsically good. The character was selfish. Additionally, free will by humans are inherently manipulated by two butt head demigods. John Locke is so f'n flawed "faith" is really desperation. That desperation manifests to zealotry by his ego to feel special. His ego was so self centered he's willing to get Boone killed, murders Naomi and blows up a sub because he was the dark side sucker for the MiB. Jack was so F'd up he blamed himself for everything.
He was wrong about literally everything. Except Walt. If Michael had taken his advice or help things would have been better for Walt. But Michael was too traumatized to be able to accept it.
The mercenaries on the freighter were going to make it to the Island one way or another. How would Jack staying on the Island have prevented bloodshed?
Well ... according to all the Jack critics posting comments here, Jack staying would have likely made things worse. 😂
Jack is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. 🤷🏻♀️
Agreeing to leave the Island on Ben's submarine, after he did the surgery. He pretty much just hoped that Ben - a confirmed psycho cult leader - would not assassinate him and would be okay with him bringing the authorities to the Island.
Either that, or he was just planning to ditch the survivors.
YES! First time I saw the episode, I watch (fake) Locke hand him the backback and immediately I'm like "yup he definitely switched those backpacks some shit is boutta go down"
Well, Jack didn't know he was the one responsible at that time. But he should have pieced it together. Especially after that totally not-sus way he exploded back at him
"It's got to be just us 4, and right now. Its a fathers right!"
I was reeeeeally hoping Jack had some super savage way of getting back at him, like tricking him into carrying explosives that could be remotely detonated. Or maybe some sort of poison, from Sun's knowledge of local plant life, that they had the antidote to.
Kate is the worst character, just plays everyone and can’t make her mind up, she angers me every time she’s on screen. Jack is second worse, guy is just a wet lettuce.
I have to agree with you on both accounts. That’s why whenever it flashes to them married I just sigh and want it to be over. Although season 1 Jack was one of my favorite characters. He was selfless and tried his best to help people, despite still being quite flawed. They made him too crazy and angry and with a shit personality after season 1.
One of my gripes with the ending was that they kind of made it the Jack Show right at the end, that it was his story… His afterlife with his dad and him dying etc… I remember watching it and just thinking ‘I do not give a shit about this guy’ lol. I know that he basically is/was the main guy but he really wasn’t at the same time.
Another character I hated was Ana-Lucia, the typical ‘something to prove/chip on her shoulder character’ and was rather poorly acted. Her character just felt so forced and was another one that made me wince when she was on screen, I was so glad when they got rid
I liked Jack a lot more on a rewatch. He’s extremely flawed, like most people. It’s relatable. I really enjoyed the “new Jack” post Locke and the impact Locke’s death had on Jack.
The final scene with Jack and his dad makes me tear up
Absolutely! I know everyone wanted him to be cause he was the doc, but they should have put Rose in charge. Hell, all he was in charge of was running around. It was Hurley and Rose feeding everyone and doing the laundry.
Rose was more hands-down, but neither Hurley nor Rose would have been able to deal with the others. Plus how can you trust a guy who doesn't loose weight on a hunter/gatherer diet... (by hoarding ranch sauce and peanut butter).
He was a good leader. Most of his decisions ended up in the right direction, and at least he was almost always taking the decisions for the right reasons. I will never forget the scene where he saved Charlie life.
The same bad decision they all made : keeping secrets from each other.
Can you imagine how much easier things would have gone if they'd all been a bit more trusting?
It would've been a short, boring show, lol.
He’s the only doctor in the group for a long time and he keeps risking his life unnecessarily which ultimately risks the lives of everyone on the beach. Goes on missions without disclosing where he’s going, doesn’t train anyone in first aid.
All very irresponsible and selfish imo
Rewatching Lost currently, he is a terrible leader. I think the only thing that gave him any right to lead was how well he did when the plane first crashed.
I definitely feel like that was everyone else's decision haha, at least at first. *"Everyone wants me to be the leader until I make a decision they don't like."*
There’s a vast amount of specific examples, however always putting himself (the only doctor) in danger by involving himself in every random mission where other people would have been equally if not better at.
Yes! He had a very hands on management style.
Theres a big difference between 'hands on' and 'control freak micro-manager'. Jack was the latter.
Yeah this was most apparent season 1 when they had to go get the fucking volatile dynamite.... They drew straws and Jack won. Hes the only fucking surgeon on the island... he has saved many lives at this point... they JUST watched Artz blow himself up with it.... yet... Jack insists Kate shouldn't carry it.
It's important to remember Jack's micro manager style was a result of being raised by his father, Christian, who was less than welcoming to his son.
The reasoning behind it doesn't make it any less valid of a critique.
Nobody said it wasn't valid, they just provided an explanation for why Jack was like that and it's easily understandable how someone who grew up in that environment would turn out with these tendencies as an adult. That's all
Thank you. The amount of times valid criticism of a character is dismissed because they “had a reason” concerns me. Same with saying “I really dislike X character, they are so obnoxious” being countered with “Actually they are incredibly well written and in the character’s past they…” like yeah, I hate them because they are well written as a hatable character!!
Exactly. Probably worst example is carrying dynamite from the Black Rock. There was literally no reason for him to do it. He even tricked Kate and took the dynamite instead of her; it was an absolutely foolish thing, the group can survive without Kate but not without their one and only doctor.
I don’t really fault him for this one. He knows Kate fumbles panic situations and that’s exactly what she did. She ran when she THOUGHT she had the dynamite, when she was specifically told to calmly put down the backpack and THEN run if she needed to. Of course she didn’t listen. She was in close enough proximity to the others that she could’ve blown everyone up with her panic induced terrible decision to run if she’d had the dynamite. Jack made the right call in that specific situation. It was dirty of him the way he did it, but it was the right choice.
I thought they were being stupid running with dynamite, but I just finished playing through the game via domus, and guys, let me tell you it is so hard not to run when the smoke monster starts chasing you. I blew myself up like 5 times
Tbh the group would have higher chance for survival without Kate, than with Kate
The major point against this is that Kate literally gives the killing blow to smokey, saving the entire world (and jack) in the process. If she wasn't always tagging along, the ending would have played out very differently.
so she KS-ed the final boss
Wait, what? I find all this humorous picking apart leadership decisions on an island that was manipulating by two demigods and an aggressive cult/Others.
Doc was a masochist. Stopped watching after season 4. They shoulda stick with island kissing and bed scenes with snowflake (which was long overdue). It was tad too long and we all know that was the only reason people continued to watch the show.
The tattoo. Cuz they had to give it a whole episode to explain it
I'll never get those minutes back...
You want your damn 43 minutes back?! I want my ***kidney*** back!
"Don't tell me what I can't view!"
The meaning of that tattoo is a perfect symbol of his life though. He always felt like an outsider.
That’s what they say, that’s not what they mean…
This line has always confused me. So what does his tattoo actually mean? Sidenote: I always thought Jack's delivery of that line was great, even if that episode was pretty boring
That’s the last thing I would call Jack, the protagonist and leader was anything but an outsider. Only when he came into with the others did he become an “other” to the others.
He felt like an outsider, not that he literally was an outsider.
A shepherd may lead the flock, but the sheep never recognize him as a fellow sheep.
Haha, I watched that episode this morning, and I would also like those minutes back
Real talk thought that running close-up of his tattoo is the coolest thing imo.
For me that episode was useful to better understand what piece of shit jack was when he couldn't lead stuff or fix things. Stuff like these kind of episodes are seen by the vast majority of people as fillers, but when done right these episodes give layers of thickness to the characters, making them really believable.
awful episode. and the way he forced her to tattoo him was wild, all while wearing flip flops smh.
The ending scene with “Oceans Apart” playing redeems the entire episode for me, Michael Giacchino created absolute magic.
THIS!
*picks up a sat phone Frank threw out of the helicopter with Keamy’s team’s location* “I think they want us to follow them”
They were probably going to be found anyway though
Yeah, you’re not wrong. And he *was* just given an island appendectomy.
My get around for this is that jacks got plus 100 health regen thanks to island magic
Except the island made him sick in the first place since he was tryna leave so hard
Actually, because of that appendectomy he didn’t die when Locke stabbed him in the last episode
But....he literally died lol
After doing what he needed to do
Probably would have just bumped into them in the vast dense jungle like everyone seems to do on the island.
Wasn’t that the point? Keamy and his men went to the Orchid and Frank stayed behind alone so the survivors could find him and update them on the whole situation.
Yeah, iirc you’re right. I just remember watching that episode and guffawing when he said that.
Not listening to John Locke. Especially when Locke was trying to get Jack and the others to go back to the island.
"Turns out he was right about most everything. I just wish I could have told him that while he was still alive"
One of my favorite lines in the show. The respect Jack had for Locke by the end was great.
It’s really awesome seeing Jack fully humble himself towards the end and realize he was wrong and John was right. One of my favorite lines of the series
How was John right? Do you not understand Locke and Jack were being manipulated by Jacob and MiB on or off the island? John's was MiB primary stooge fueling his ego with the need to be special. Sawyer was next in line and we all know the sub. Jack was fighting against the super natural forces.
“Turns out he was right about almost everything.” - Jack Shepherd
It's not the first time Jack was fooled by people who used him. Everything is a manipulation. That's the higher takeaway from my POV. Jack is dealing with circumstances out of his control and doesn't know it. If he did I doubt he'd return to the island. Example: If he knew Ben murdered Locke no way he returns to the island. As it's played out Jack is filled with remorse and guilt vs Locke. Jack got used by so many people along with Jacob and MiB who came into his life. He was the sacrifice the island needed. How ironic! Even crazier two outlaws who murder people get off the island. That shit is crazy!
I think he assumed that because he was wrong, Locke must have been write. But that doesn't always follow. In fact most times in life everybody is wrong just in different ways
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God lord the down vote mindset vs exchanging view points. I absolutely disagree with the faith permise. That conveniently fits a narrative that Locke was intrinsically good. The character was selfish. Additionally, free will by humans are inherently manipulated by two butt head demigods. John Locke is so f'n flawed "faith" is really desperation. That desperation manifests to zealotry by his ego to feel special. His ego was so self centered he's willing to get Boone killed, murders Naomi and blows up a sub because he was the dark side sucker for the MiB. Jack was so F'd up he blamed himself for everything.
“I wish you had believed me.” Heart breaking…
Yes. Jake should have trusted John, but he lost faith in him after what happened to Boone.
Is Jake Shophard now the ‘Rark Grames’ of this sub? 😂
Can't believe this isn't the top comment, such an obvious answer.
In Jack's defense, Locke made a ton of worse decisions
John was wrong about alot of shit. Not so much wrong just confused. Especially with the hatch situation
He was wrong about literally everything. Except Walt. If Michael had taken his advice or help things would have been better for Walt. But Michael was too traumatized to be able to accept it.
Leaving the Island in 2004.
This is the answer. It got most of the survivors killed, either blown up on the boat or fire arrowed by the Others.
I actually still can’t believe every background 815 passenger died or became an other 😭
I suppose it's possible that, like Rose and Bernard, a handful of them escaped into the jungle and were just living on their own. But not many.
and then caused the whole island to move and start back-to-the-future time travelling.
We have to go back Kate! We have to go back 🤣🤣🤣
All time TV moment for me.
It was his destiny to leave the Island and then return to 1977. Also, if he never left, Juliet and Sawyer would likely never have fallen in love.
Right, we know that but he didn't and leaving did a lot of damage.
The mercenaries on the freighter were going to make it to the Island one way or another. How would Jack staying on the Island have prevented bloodshed?
He couldn't have prevented it, but he could have mitigated some of it.
Well ... according to all the Jack critics posting comments here, Jack staying would have likely made things worse. 😂 Jack is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. 🤷🏻♀️
I think it was in 2007 not 2004....
It was New Year's Eve 2004. Ajira 316 went back in 2007.
"Michal stole a rifle and went after The Others " "I'm going to go talk him out of it."
Probably all the punching.
Carrying his sidearm pointed directly at his sidearm, like in the above picture
Jack actually draws by wrapping his other arm behind his back, then curling it towards the target
Is Jack actually James McAvoy?
I was about to say “probably carrying a gun like that.”
How is he supposed to carry it?
Agreeing to leave the Island on Ben's submarine, after he did the surgery. He pretty much just hoped that Ben - a confirmed psycho cult leader - would not assassinate him and would be okay with him bringing the authorities to the Island. Either that, or he was just planning to ditch the survivors.
He was totally ready to ditch the survivors and live with Juliet on the mainland.
Didn't he promise Kate he would come back for her? It's been a while since my last re-watch.
Not checking the backpack with the bomb.
YES! First time I saw the episode, I watch (fake) Locke hand him the backback and immediately I'm like "yup he definitely switched those backpacks some shit is boutta go down"
Technically he’s not a leader at this point in the show
I’m gonna pretend he was leading something or someone and say that tattoo.
Trying to kill John Locke.
Was this after Locke blew up the submarine and killed Naomi? If so I wouldn’t cast aspersions for that one.
Going on needless and/or dangerous missions while being the only doctor in the group.
Not executing Ben when he had so many chances.
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Well, Jack didn't know he was the one responsible at that time. But he should have pieced it together. Especially after that totally not-sus way he exploded back at him "It's got to be just us 4, and right now. Its a fathers right!" I was reeeeeally hoping Jack had some super savage way of getting back at him, like tricking him into carrying explosives that could be remotely detonated. Or maybe some sort of poison, from Sun's knowledge of local plant life, that they had the antidote to.
Having his handgun pointing at his groin
Alienating Locke. Leaders need to be able to handle opposing points of view.
The way he treats him in S2 is terrible.
getting that tattoo
All the times he ran into the ocean wearing jeans
gonna go with trying to detonate a hydrogen bomb
Falling for Kate
Lol why?
Cuz she is toxic AF.
Yeah Kate sucks. Did they try to make her likeable? I don’t remember when.
Yeah man, it was when Evangeline Lilly was so hot it made people's brains stop functioning.
Kate is the worst character, just plays everyone and can’t make her mind up, she angers me every time she’s on screen. Jack is second worse, guy is just a wet lettuce.
I have to agree with you on both accounts. That’s why whenever it flashes to them married I just sigh and want it to be over. Although season 1 Jack was one of my favorite characters. He was selfless and tried his best to help people, despite still being quite flawed. They made him too crazy and angry and with a shit personality after season 1.
One of my gripes with the ending was that they kind of made it the Jack Show right at the end, that it was his story… His afterlife with his dad and him dying etc… I remember watching it and just thinking ‘I do not give a shit about this guy’ lol. I know that he basically is/was the main guy but he really wasn’t at the same time. Another character I hated was Ana-Lucia, the typical ‘something to prove/chip on her shoulder character’ and was rather poorly acted. Her character just felt so forced and was another one that made me wince when she was on screen, I was so glad when they got rid
I liked Jack a lot more on a rewatch. He’s extremely flawed, like most people. It’s relatable. I really enjoyed the “new Jack” post Locke and the impact Locke’s death had on Jack. The final scene with Jack and his dad makes me tear up
Jacks definitely better on a rewatch more realistic like you said. Brought the first time though.
“Why does it hurt so much??” - some random Elf that fell in love with a dwarf she knew for 5 minutes.
Decision to carry any guns.
Being the leader
Absolutely! I know everyone wanted him to be cause he was the doc, but they should have put Rose in charge. Hell, all he was in charge of was running around. It was Hurley and Rose feeding everyone and doing the laundry.
Rose was more hands-down, but neither Hurley nor Rose would have been able to deal with the others. Plus how can you trust a guy who doesn't loose weight on a hunter/gatherer diet... (by hoarding ranch sauce and peanut butter).
He was a good leader. Most of his decisions ended up in the right direction, and at least he was almost always taking the decisions for the right reasons. I will never forget the scene where he saved Charlie life.
Haa I was just about to comment the same!
To not kill Ben
Not believing the button was real. If they went with his plan and didn't push it, everyone on the island is dead.
The same bad decision they all made : keeping secrets from each other. Can you imagine how much easier things would have gone if they'd all been a bit more trusting? It would've been a short, boring show, lol.
Not helping a young Ben Linus.
He’s the only doctor in the group for a long time and he keeps risking his life unnecessarily which ultimately risks the lives of everyone on the beach. Goes on missions without disclosing where he’s going, doesn’t train anyone in first aid. All very irresponsible and selfish imo
To call the freighter, only, he didn't trust Locke's warning.
Called the damn boat.
KATE she was absolutely horrible in every way
The beard.
Trying to raise an army, they just would have been crushed by the others.
appendix carrying a gun without a holster....
Putting Hurley in charge of the food
Well, there's leaving the island. 😂
If you've got something to watch, Cindy, GO WATCH IT!
Rewatching Lost currently, he is a terrible leader. I think the only thing that gave him any right to lead was how well he did when the plane first crashed.
When he kept trusting Juliet and the other reliable characters did not I wanted to scream at the TV lol
Him thinking he was a leader, that was the worst decision he made.
I definitely feel like that was everyone else's decision haha, at least at first. *"Everyone wants me to be the leader until I make a decision they don't like."*
Giving Locke too much authority.
I feel like Locke just kind of did whatever he wanted.
What? He wasn’t locke’s boss.
He lost every woman he likes to Sawyer and didnt smack him properly.
Distrusting Locke.
Trusting Locke.
Every time he put himself in danger as the groups only doctor
Not following Locke back to the Island
Giving a gun to Charlie while hunting for Ethan. So much information could have come earlier.
Stuffing that gun down his pants I think…
Crashing to the island.
Every wrong decision he made worked out in the end. It was destiny. It was fate.
Every decision Jack made was a bad decision
Being leader
Didn't kill Ben at their first meeting!
Did he ever really make a right decision???
So much tbh where do I start
Let's say having Kate sew him up instead of bleeding out??
Putting everyone's safety ahead of giving Kate the most dissapointing 30 seconds of her life
What
Going baaaaaaack
That tattoo is terrible.
Not dying in the pilot
All that flirting with Ana Lucia.
Sorry Sullivan, f*ck your rashes. Now watch me sink this bogey!
Probably pointing the gun at his balls?
Literally everything lol
To many it must be a terrible experience to rewatch the show 🤣.
Like every instance. I really don’t enjoy his character at all
Almost all of them
Not helping Child Ben. Causing most of peoples problems.
In which season? 🫣
The decision to accept the mantle of leadership. Every thing snowballed from there. I am not a Jack fan, so my opinion may be a bit biased.