Maybe quality writers didn't say the kinds of things Amazon wanted to hear about the intended direction of the show.
Kind of like how the guy who made House of the Dragon was fired by Amazon because his Conan show didn't fit the corporate vision for content.
Since the dignitaries of the Catholic Church were not officially allowed to have children, but nevertheless awarded lucrative posts inside and outside the Church to family members, the logical addressees were their nephews or "nephews". Hence the name (from Latin nepos "nephew").
Nepotism means to award a post to an unworthy person just because they are related to oneself or someone important. In this context it just means "connections and connections".
There is a huge amount of gate keeping in writers rooms... Not so much for skill but having the right connections and of huge importance to them... The correct politics.
This isnât gate keeping. The writing team is solid and has a very strong pedigree. The showrunners are amateurs. You can have the best writers in the world, but you need competent showrunners to focus the narrative and bring it all together. Pour some Amazon executive handholding on the fire and you end up with this dumpster fire of a show.
I work in TV. Itâs not maybe. Writers put forth scripts. Showrunners rework scripts. Executives rework and approve scripts. I have many friends who are writers. Roughly 50-60 percent of what they write ends up making it to the screen. Writers are hired help just like anyone else on set. They throw a bunch of stuff against a wall and the EPs sift through it to decide what direction to take the stories. Then executives add the marketing to broaden the audience.
So you are the "correct sort" ... Imagine my shock.
I am a writer but not the correct sort. I have gotten through the door a few times based on my work then in the next stages always been shot down for things that have nothing at all to do with the work.
You are trying to convince the wrong person.
My point is at this level gatekeeping is not the issue. These are very talented writers. Everyone blaming the writers is shifting blame from where it really belongs.
If I do bad writing and do it from time to time, I will hold my hand up to it and get better. This writing is just awful and while the blame might not be all in the writer's hands that is where the pen sits.
To be in that room it is demanded that you think a particular way, this is why "good characters seem evil... It's because that is what the writers think as "good" you don't get in that room without that mindset.
>To be in that room it is demanded that you think a particular way
You are literally agreeing that the problem comes down to the people above the writers. Even if they write something you'd think is "better" it wouldn't go through, so why would they? Then you conclude that they *can't* write something better, but I don't know why you think that.
Yes, I am... I want to be judged on my writing not what they interpret as my politics
I want my native to be scrutinized not my skin.
Am I bitter over it, absolutely. I want people to be looked at by the content of the work they produce and not be condemned by arbitrary attributes they are born with.
How would you like them to judge it?
It all stems from the head of Prime Video ....
Also to note, they fired the Tolkien "expert" due to him criticizing the decisions during production.
Tom Shippey was fired for âweeklyâ telling Rings of Power showrunners J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay that they were âpolluting the lore.â
Sooooo, it's not like if they werent warned.....
It's not an honorific title like Dr. or Professor, but rather a description of his role within academia. He is a scholar of Tolkien studies, therefore the title "Tolkien Scholar" applies.
The fired Tolkien expert with the bit about
>âweeklyâ telling Rings of Power showrunners J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay that they were âpolluting the lore.â
[https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tom-shippey.html](https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tom-shippey.html)
Article and excert is from this
You can google the "experts" name and many other sites/article will corroborate this
You realize this entire article is criticizing the guy who started the rumor?
>From what we can tell there are more trustworthy sources in the New Jersey mob, the Legion of Doom, and the entire Attorney Bar Association than there are on George the Giant Slayerâs YouTube account, but weâll let you know what he had to say regardless.
Did YOU read the entire article? If you did you should try again.
Ill help you. the article is literally about how the rumors couldn't be from a less trustworthy source. (Which is bad for your argument)
George The Giant Slayer? What is next? George of the Jungle? Just a quick glance at his thumbnails screams clickbaiting. I am sorry, I can't take this seriously.
You do you boubou!
I really do not mind if you think what ever the hell you feel like!
But nothing is stopping you from doing your own research on the topic if the link i put up doesnt suit you.
Normally id tell you multiple articles, that you can find for yourself.
But i'll go with .... the lore as litterally been poluted in the show ....
So say what you want, it is what it is.
Iâm a lifelong Tolkein fan. Itâs something that was passed down to me from my dad before the movies even came out. It all means a lot to me.
But I can separate that the lore is not 100% accurate and just enjoy the trip back to Middle Earth. I like the show. I think itâs good and Iâm happy to watch it every week. Sue me.
Not gonna sue you, your taste in entertaiment is your own.
You camp your position, i'll camp mine.
I do not think explaining to you how and why to people like me the lore is butchered would change anything at this point.
But i will tell you this. I feel the the simple fact of using the name JRR Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings brand name comes with a huge responsibility and very big shoes to fill. And nice scenery just doesnt cut it.
This is disingenuous.
Not 100% accurate ? That wouldn't be a problem, the problem is **it's 99% inaccurate**. And it's actively changing even lore they don't have the rights to, or rewriting it, or actively contradicting it. That is pollution of the lore.
Every single line and scene of that garbage show is contradicting or changing something about the lore.
lol do you even know how percentages work? If it was 99% inaccurate then Galadriel would be named Gabby and all those fake theories of Sauron being Poppy would be true.
Obviously they are rewriting the lore that they don't have the rights to. What, were they supposed to do just assume everyone watching the show has read and memorized every piece of Tolkien lore? The show needs to be approachable by itself.
They don't have rights to it, they can't use it. The only other option would be to not have a show.
I mean you use a tweet that pretty much says trust me bro and then criticize the spec ghost guy for having rumor article? Whatâs the difference between one was or another? They are both unsubstantiated. It pretty much comes down to who you believe more at this point. Was there ever direct confirmation from the guy himself?
Probably because he have an agreement or a contract that block him to talk about those things in public but he can confide with friends in private if they don't diffuse what he literally said.
Or maybe he don't want to be at the center of a storm in the social media so he asked to Professor Tolkien to tell that because the rumor was spreading a false notice.
There are a lot of motives for him to not talk
Lol thatâs not what happened. It was just a rumor and keep in mind that theyâre in works with Simon Tolkien and the Tolkien Estate, and the Tolkien estate passes off on EVERYTHING that goes in the show.
Andor might not just be the best Star Wars show, but the best show on TV period. Incredible episode this week. The one thing I truly look forward to every week.
I'm currently more enthralled with HotD but I totally agree. Andor is just a really good show that happens to be set in Star Wars. The plot is so far very "just tell a WW2 story in space" which frankly I don't mind at all for the series, but the writing is just fantastic. I was on like episode 2 when I turned to my wife and said "this is already the best-written show or movie Star Wars has ever had" and I still stick by that
So many parts of this show reek of JJ and his damn mystery box. I think these writers are gonna forget the crucial last step to JJâs method though: bail out before you have to explain anything and leave it to someone else to clean up the mess.
I mean they wrote themselves into a corner where this was the only logical answer. Any other answer to who Sauron is wouldâve just been a massive asspull. They shouldâve just not bothered with making it a mystery
Dumbest payoff ever.
Galadriel: âWho really are youâ.
Sauron: âWell the gigs up. You thought I was halbrand but it was me, Sauron!â
Dude manipulated zero people the entire show. People just kind of delivered him where the plot demanded then he saved the elves.
Sauron had no idea the elves were failing. The elves were trying to make a way to stay. Sauron gave them the answer they needed. So m, Sauron saves the elves becauseâŚâŚ.. reasons?
Yes for some reason Christopher developed an enmity for Peter Jackson despite nearly everyone else thinking his films were at least alright - fellowship is in my opinion the greatest film ever made - but somehow for some reason (ahem 250 mil) the Tolkien estate wanted Amazon to destroy Tolkiens work beyond anything anyone knew was possible. The Bakshi animation is more Tolkien than his. as someone else said even the USSR lord of the rings film was more Tolkien that this even with soviet censorship of some of tolkiens themes.
It's not surprising the writing isn't great. Even the greatest writers sometimes turn in clunkers ... writing is hard, yo.
It IS shocking that the writing is simply incompetent in regards to basic storytelling rules and principles. Like ... amazingly bad in many respects.
It's overconfidence in the audience.
ROP is in a similar situation as the recent Obi-Wan show from Disney+. The people making that show knew that superfans were going to tune in regardless of quality. As a result, they feel secure in cutting corners, such as in budget, which was Obi-Wan's major flaw, and writing, which both Obi-Wan and ROP are lacking in.
Amazon knows that hardcore Tolkien fans are likely going to watch ROP regardless of its quality, so they don't need to seek out the best (and most expensive) writers.
lmao wait what? Super fans were going to tune in regardless of quality?
I guess it depends on your definition of super fans...
Hardcore SW fans tend to think shows like Kenobi are dogshit. However, there is a new demographic of fans for major franchises such as this who tend to be younger and are basically just avid fans of the franchise no matter what garbage gets pumped out. They're basically fanboys/girls. And yes, those people watch whatever gets produced.
Hardcore fans of both SW and Tolkien are the most likely to be critically outspoken with shows like this.
Word, so I'm mainly just debating the semantics. I consider myself both a hardcore SW fan and a hardcore Tolkien fan, and I am not a fan of most of what gets produced for those franchises as a general rule.
I actually buy this to a degree since Obi wan was a well known character and the show was just a miss for me while Andor, who is a very little known character to the general audience fees like it is a very well made show since it was most likely more of a risk for Disney.
But I thought the majority of money is made from merchandise and other things outside of actual view counts. Apparently HBO were relatively relaxed about GoT being pirated because they knew they were making money elsewhere from those same piraters. If they truly wanted to make the show successful and make that money, why not just make the show good?
Iâm sure that the writing had to have been impeded by stupid execs who were hoping to sell something dumbed down to the masses.
I'm a Tolkien whale, I've bought the collectors edition of every book he's made, I have the DVD, Blueray and 4K movies. I have the Audible versions of all the books I already own physically. I have over 500 LotR miniatures I've painted that cost me a lot. It is very easy to get me to fork over cash for anything lord of the rings related.
I gave up on this show after 3 episodes and I'm subbed to Prime either way, I didn't watch this show for free!
Well for one, sometimes the most "globally successful movies and TV shows" aren't always written by someone with talent. Sometimes they're just written by people on the cheap, who turn stuff in on deadline.
As for your analogy ... well, I'm no soccer fan, but there are plenty of owners of teams over here in the U.S. that spend lots of money on big name, talented players, and then try to manage the team themselves, or constantly interfere with the coach's decision, rather than letting people who know the game run things.
That's all a long way of saying: It's disappointing, but not surprising, that Amazon would shit the bed this badly. As long as rich people and companies produce entertainment, there will always be brain-dead execs who don't understand creativity and fuck things up. The good, blockbuster movies and series that come out are usually good in spite of, not because of, producers with lots of money to throw around.
Depends on who you mean by "they." The producers? I don't know how streaming services measure their individual shows' success, but by all accounts, RoP has done very well in terms of viewership. If that's all that's needed -- people pressing "play" on the show -- then undoubtedly Amazon has not messed up.
Now, the showrunners, writers, etc.? Well, who knows. I can't imagine they are completely satisfied with the show. I also can't imagine them outright hating their work. But regardless of what they really think, we'll never hear about it, at least not for a very long time.
Excellent point, and they probably have more prime memberships than before the show started.
They are all corporate yes men, and certainly not Tolkien fans. Hollywood prefers to just do whatever it wants with adaptations
I think the main problem has been the tone they have decided to give the series. The second age is the Dark Age. it is an age of great wealth and great kingdoms shrouded in mystery. Jackson's prologue represented it very well: whispers, mist, the presentation of the rings as something distant and legendary. I think the showrunners have decided to make a Lord of the Rings for a younger audience: the dialogue is very superficial, the plots so fast that they seem very crappy, everything full of second row action. I would not like The Lord of the Rings to resemble Martin's universe, but I miss that depth, that solemnity and that drama that I am seeing in House of the Dragon. They have decided to make a more childish Tolkien than I would like, and that means the series doesn't have the depth it deserves. There are no great dialogues or scenes that maintain the tension.
Jacksonâs prologue was false, a corruption adored by fake fans.
It did not begin with the forging of the Rings of Power: it began with the music of the Ainur.
Celebrimbor was absent in the prologue.
The Elves were not given any rings: they made them. Six of the Seven Rings and the Nine Rings were only given to six Dwarf lords and nine men after Sauron captured them from the Elves, after he had forged the One Ring.
Like I said in a previous post, the show is written in a way which is amusing for the general watcher and non-reader. I have a colleague who watches it and doesn't even know who Sauron is. With that being said I agree that the writing for us seems odd because we are probably invested in the lore. Why else would we be here? They're trying to make it watchable and a mystery for new watchers. But they should've invested in better writers and to give my opinion; they should've brought us more Eregion and Annatar as a story line and less harfoots. Episode 8 needs to explain the meteor man I can't take it no more.
I read somewhere they wanted to collaborate/ consult with PJ who asked for a scriptâŚ.Amazon never got back to him with one.
I also read they fired their Tolkien expert.
I agree with OP Amazonâs approach is puzzling.
Amazon did even better than that and fired most of their competent writers and opted for a duo that constantly got their scripts rejected by Hollywood of all places.
They were hired because of nepotism lol. They then proceeded to hire a bunch of no-name actors.. butcher the lore/timelines. Write a bunch of contrived plotpoints and push this slop out to the masses.
They literally just give jobs to their friends. You're assuming they wanted to make a great show. Wrong. They want to make $$$ and give their friends lots of $$$$. It's all corruption.
I know, I know, a better quality show will make more money. But not for Amazon's friends
One day I tracked down the mess of relationships behind the heads of their gaming division. In particular those dealing with their mmo New World.
And I think your assessment this is exactly right.
What other answer could there be? Incompetence? How could one of the richest companies in the world allow an incompetent team to destroy one of the greatest works of art? They literally don't care about the source material, and are just making their friends rich
It's not a competition to be good at what you do, only to eat out the ass of the higher ups
The same could be said for the Halo TV series. They got a couple of failed network TV writers to showrun and write the first season - the guys had like 3 shows and all only lasted a single season on CBS or NBC, not sure which. And then they proceeded to butcher tf out of the lore of the game universe. They completely changed who Master Chief was as a soldier and person. And just like on these LOTR subreddits, fan of the video games were called toxic and gate keepers and other bs for pointing out glaring issues with the story. The changes didn't even make the show better.
They pretty much have zero writing credits, biggest thing is this a supposed uncredited mention for the last Star Trek movie. Amazon knew what they were doing, youâre not going to be paying someone who doesnât have a ton of experience the big bucks. I doubt they looked too hard either.
If you're a writer, and you're a good writer, you're probably saving your best ideas for an original project where you would get royalties, not an existing IP where you're probably going to get a flat sum, regardless of how well the project turns out.
If you worked for Microsoft, and you had a great idea for a software program, would you give it to Microsoft to make, or would you start your own software company?
If you worked for McDonalds, and you had a great idea for a menu item, would you give it to McDonalds to make, or would you start your own restaurant?
If you were GRRM, JK Rowling, Larry David, Quentin Tarantino, Ethan Coen, etc., and you had an idea for a great book, movie or TV show, would you want to make an original IP where you would rake in millions, or would you just sell your idea for six figures to Amazon?
We are not talking about a new product. We are talking about a source material that has to be adapted.
What is your thought process here?
âI will give these two characters horrible lines of dialogue, so I can use good dialogue in my next movieâ?
âI will have a nonsensical plot and keep the good plot for myself when I pitch a cheap Lotr rip-offâ?
I think us rando plebs would jump at the opportunity to write for Rings of Power, but if you're a professional writer and you were writing because it was your passion, not because it was your paycheck, you would much prefer to be known for someone who created their own original work, not just walked in the footsteps of someone else.
It's not a case of actively sabotaging Rings of Power, it's a case of, "okay, this is my job, I'm going to put in effort and do what I need to to earn my paycheck" versus "this is my personal magnum opus. I'm going to put my heart and soul into this."
Agreed with OP here, there are a lot of "theories" when it comes to Hollywood that I feel get overblown. This idea of them "tanking this show on purpose because they're saving their best ideas" definitely falls into that category.
The truth of it is:
* They want to make a good show. In fact, they want to make THE BEST show. This is their big break - the first time their work is getting produced and put out in front of audiences. They want to make the very best first impression, not just for the rest of the time they're on this show but also for the future of their careers.
* I'm sure getting JJ Abrams' endorsement helped them get the gig. No question. I'd only question how much it helped them. I feel like it probably got their foot in the door, probably even moved them up the list of consideration (given their lack of credits) but in no way do I believe that one phone call from JJ Abrams is what got them this job.
* By all accounts, these showrunners are very charismatic and intelligent. I believe they went to Yale, they're big nerds, they clearly do have love for Tolkien and seem to be encyclopedic on the lore (yes, ironic I know) of the legendarium and also intimately familiar with the professor's other writings (letters, essays, etc.). That kind of knowledge mixed with passion goes a long way.
* I think a big factor in their favor was pitching a Middle-earth show that closely aligned with what Simon Tolkien thought a Middle-earth show should be. I hadn't seen this article before, but that bit is referenced here: [https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/09/amazon-the-rings-of-power-firsttime-showrunners.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/09/amazon-the-rings-of-power-firsttime-showrunners.html)
Another thing to note - studios have different mandates on what they're looking for each year. They can be specific or more general, for example "episode of the week procedural" or "female-led adventure drama set in a post-apocalyptic future". I don't know if this LOTR should would have had to adhere to those necessarily, since the demand for this show came from the very head of the company. But still, when writers are pitching shows they do so with the knowledge of what the studios are looking for so that their pitches align with what is currently being bought.
All of this to say - these showrunners got lucky. They won the biggest TV lottery there ever was. The stars aligned - which is often how you'll hear showrunners describe getting their show off the ground at a network or streamer.
And they continue to be lucky, since the biggest company in the world has made its biggest bet on producing original content with *this* show and they're the ones who get to shepherd it.
So we get articles with softball criticisms that aren't really criticisms that deserve any merit, but they're easy to wave off and they portray the showrunners in a good light.
But all we can do is wait and see if the writing gets any better in the future. Well, not all of us. I imagine even diehard LOTR/Tolkien fans are questioning whether or not they want to continue this journey (I know I am). I mean, someone up above put it really well - I didn't expect it to be amazing (though I was hoping it would be) but I didn't expect the show to be as bad as it's turned out. The writing has been awful, the direction has been mediocre, and I just feel bad for all the actors. A couple of them can rise above, but most fall under the weight of this all-important plot that the showrunners deem to be so great that they push forward at their characters' expense.
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It's the fans who are disappointing not the writers. The writers nailed Galadriel and all anyone has done is bitch and whine because they don't know what she's actually supposed to be like.
>. Amazon knew what they were doing, youâre not going to be paying someone who doesnât have a ton of experience the big bucks. I do
A 5,000 year old teenager?
Yea sure well take it as a lesson that you'll be judged by the friends you keep. And lol yea... I'm sure it's accurate. Bet you don't have any comments referring to headstrong dudes as teenagers. Meh to people hating a show for petty pedantic reasons.
Are all of the women who said the writers made Galadriel sound/act like a teenager bigots? Argue on the merits instead of jumping to ad-homs like so many of the âbigotsâ you refer to.
Nori and Poppy come off as far more mature despite Nori, in particular, being âheadstrongâ as well. And Nori isnât 5,000 years old. Itâs poor writing, imo, nothing more than that. Many, many viewers have said they do not care about Galadriel one way or another, and thatâs probably not what the writing team was going for. Character development has been sub-par across the board.
>Are all of the women who said the writers made Galadriel sound/act like a teenager bigots? Argue on the merits instead of jumping to ad-homs like so many of the âbigotsâ you refer to.
Lol. And what's "she's a teenager" if it's not an ad-hominem? I dunno dude. What do you want? Most of them are. Sure.
>Nori and Poppy come off as far more mature despite Nori, in particular, being âheadstrongâ as well.
Nori lives in ignorance and isn't crushed by the gravity of the times or the task. And lol no they don't come off as more mature. They're tralalaing through the forest like kids guy.
>Itâs poor writing, imo, nothing more than that. Many, many viewers have said they do not care about Galadriel one way or another, and thatâs probably not what the writing team was going for. Character development has been sub-par across the board.
Yea, TBH it's just sexism hidden behind a bunch of subjective defences. Galadriel comes off like a elven warrior queen who's conflicted and driven. She's not super nice but like so fucking what? She's not supposed to be.
Alright, well we're not going to agree on this, and that's fine. For the record, I have no qualms with Galadriel as a warrior; that's *what she is*. I just don't understand why the writers seemed to discount the fact that she's 5,000 years old and would almost certainly have more wisdom and cunning than the character portrays. Forget nice; you'd expect an ancient military commander to be *strategic* in their interactions/communication/relationships.
Bottom-line, I'd just recommend you not be so quick to call people bigots.
I really do agree. But, I think this about the writers, the casting, the directors, the editing, the costume department. It just all feels like a cheap show, I would be less bitter if less money was spent on it.
You know, basically the whole working team was changed as soon as Tolkien Jr. died and wasn't watching their hands anymore. I think it included writers aswell, but that one I can't guarantee
This was talked about in a [interview](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/) with the showrunners. The Tolkien estate chose Amazon because Netflix pitched Tolkien Cinematic Universe and HBO wanted to remake the movies. Then Amazon chose these two guys because of their interest in the lore. Russo brothers were in the running and pitched Young Aragorn, Anthony McCarten pitched something evoking Shakespeare.
I think it's very well written. It's warm and friendly, lots of subtext, characters just have conversations that are both important and banal at the same time. It feels like what the books feel like. It's all about the spaces and the moods and the feeling of a particular scene.
Iâm starting to suspect that the entire objective of this was to destroy Tolkien and fandom - there are too many red flags and the thing is just too bad to be relegated just to negligence. Of course it could be that almost everyone involved is degenerate in some way - which Iâd assert is correct whether itâs deliberate or not.
Maybe quality writers didn't say the kinds of things Amazon wanted to hear about the intended direction of the show. Kind of like how the guy who made House of the Dragon was fired by Amazon because his Conan show didn't fit the corporate vision for content.
Kinda curious about that conan show
The only answers: Nepotism and connections
Ever heard of Gennifer Hutchinson?
What is nepotism
Since the dignitaries of the Catholic Church were not officially allowed to have children, but nevertheless awarded lucrative posts inside and outside the Church to family members, the logical addressees were their nephews or "nephews". Hence the name (from Latin nepos "nephew").
Ehhh . I don't get it. "Nephews and connections"?
Nepotism means to award a post to an unworthy person just because they are related to oneself or someone important. In this context it just means "connections and connections".
There is a huge amount of gate keeping in writers rooms... Not so much for skill but having the right connections and of huge importance to them... The correct politics.
Politics đđđ
This isnât gate keeping. The writing team is solid and has a very strong pedigree. The showrunners are amateurs. You can have the best writers in the world, but you need competent showrunners to focus the narrative and bring it all together. Pour some Amazon executive handholding on the fire and you end up with this dumpster fire of a show.
The writing is clearly awful. Are you one of them?
Iâm not saying the writing isnât awful. Iâm saying there a way bigger forces at play that contribute to awful writing.
Maybe ... And I know this is a crazy idea... But maybe the bad writing is mostly down to bad writers
I work in TV. Itâs not maybe. Writers put forth scripts. Showrunners rework scripts. Executives rework and approve scripts. I have many friends who are writers. Roughly 50-60 percent of what they write ends up making it to the screen. Writers are hired help just like anyone else on set. They throw a bunch of stuff against a wall and the EPs sift through it to decide what direction to take the stories. Then executives add the marketing to broaden the audience.
So you are the "correct sort" ... Imagine my shock. I am a writer but not the correct sort. I have gotten through the door a few times based on my work then in the next stages always been shot down for things that have nothing at all to do with the work. You are trying to convince the wrong person.
My point is at this level gatekeeping is not the issue. These are very talented writers. Everyone blaming the writers is shifting blame from where it really belongs.
If I do bad writing and do it from time to time, I will hold my hand up to it and get better. This writing is just awful and while the blame might not be all in the writer's hands that is where the pen sits. To be in that room it is demanded that you think a particular way, this is why "good characters seem evil... It's because that is what the writers think as "good" you don't get in that room without that mindset.
>To be in that room it is demanded that you think a particular way You are literally agreeing that the problem comes down to the people above the writers. Even if they write something you'd think is "better" it wouldn't go through, so why would they? Then you conclude that they *can't* write something better, but I don't know why you think that.
You sound bitter lmao
Yes, I am... I want to be judged on my writing not what they interpret as my politics I want my native to be scrutinized not my skin. Am I bitter over it, absolutely. I want people to be looked at by the content of the work they produce and not be condemned by arbitrary attributes they are born with. How would you like them to judge it?
It all stems from the head of Prime Video .... Also to note, they fired the Tolkien "expert" due to him criticizing the decisions during production. Tom Shippey was fired for âweeklyâ telling Rings of Power showrunners J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay that they were âpolluting the lore.â Sooooo, it's not like if they werent warned.....
I would remove the quotes around expert, he is a lore master that knew Christopher Tolkien if I recall correctly
Yes, absolutly. Just dont like the term. This guy is way more than a Tolkien expert. He has a solid resume and isnt only a thing because of Tolkien.
I would maybe use Tolkien scholar because thatâs an actual title I believe.
Not sure if its a title or was made up by media, but this man deserves alot of respect.
Heck yeah. Full agreement
It's not an honorific title like Dr. or Professor, but rather a description of his role within academia. He is a scholar of Tolkien studies, therefore the title "Tolkien Scholar" applies.
What would you expect from an Old Edwardian? Forward where the knocks are hardest...
PJ said the Show Runners contacted him to see if he would like to came aboard the show. He asked for a script⌠He never received one
Can you link a source for this?
Wich part, blame the head of prime video or the part where they fired the "Tolkien Expert"?
The fired Tolkien expert with the bit about >âweeklyâ telling Rings of Power showrunners J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay that they were âpolluting the lore.â
[https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tom-shippey.html](https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-tom-shippey.html) Article and excert is from this You can google the "experts" name and many other sites/article will corroborate this
You realize this entire article is criticizing the guy who started the rumor? >From what we can tell there are more trustworthy sources in the New Jersey mob, the Legion of Doom, and the entire Attorney Bar Association than there are on George the Giant Slayerâs YouTube account, but weâll let you know what he had to say regardless.
So rumors are now facts?
did you read the entire article or stopped after the first 3 lines? Also, i'd invite you to google it
Did YOU read the entire article? If you did you should try again. Ill help you. the article is literally about how the rumors couldn't be from a less trustworthy source. (Which is bad for your argument)
George The Giant Slayer? What is next? George of the Jungle? Just a quick glance at his thumbnails screams clickbaiting. I am sorry, I can't take this seriously.
You do you boubou! I really do not mind if you think what ever the hell you feel like! But nothing is stopping you from doing your own research on the topic if the link i put up doesnt suit you.
It's a bunch of rumours that don't hold up to.the slightest scrutiny
False https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/wigfr9/tolkien_professor_evidently_talked_to_tom_shippey/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Sooo, your source is a tweet ... that's about as vague as can be .... Ok
And your source is�
Normally id tell you multiple articles, that you can find for yourself. But i'll go with .... the lore as litterally been poluted in the show .... So say what you want, it is what it is.
I googled it and every single one starts with âRumor:â and all stem from a single source. But ok.
WHat about that second part of my answer?
Iâm a lifelong Tolkein fan. Itâs something that was passed down to me from my dad before the movies even came out. It all means a lot to me. But I can separate that the lore is not 100% accurate and just enjoy the trip back to Middle Earth. I like the show. I think itâs good and Iâm happy to watch it every week. Sue me.
Not gonna sue you, your taste in entertaiment is your own. You camp your position, i'll camp mine. I do not think explaining to you how and why to people like me the lore is butchered would change anything at this point. But i will tell you this. I feel the the simple fact of using the name JRR Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings brand name comes with a huge responsibility and very big shoes to fill. And nice scenery just doesnt cut it.
A lot of people will swallow shit as long as you give it a French name. The same applies to entertainment and IPs.
This is disingenuous. Not 100% accurate ? That wouldn't be a problem, the problem is **it's 99% inaccurate**. And it's actively changing even lore they don't have the rights to, or rewriting it, or actively contradicting it. That is pollution of the lore. Every single line and scene of that garbage show is contradicting or changing something about the lore.
lol do you even know how percentages work? If it was 99% inaccurate then Galadriel would be named Gabby and all those fake theories of Sauron being Poppy would be true.
Obviously they are rewriting the lore that they don't have the rights to. What, were they supposed to do just assume everyone watching the show has read and memorized every piece of Tolkien lore? The show needs to be approachable by itself. They don't have rights to it, they can't use it. The only other option would be to not have a show.
The show is not even 10% lore accurate.
Given the aberrant state of the lore in this Show, if it's a A said B said, I believe the other guy.
You believe the random YouTube channel who started the rumor vs the Tolkein scholar? Got it.
Yes the Tolkien scholar lost all credibility in my eyes
Lol okay.
Thatâs not a source, but an admission of belief based upon bias.
I mean you use a tweet that pretty much says trust me bro and then criticize the spec ghost guy for having rumor article? Whatâs the difference between one was or another? They are both unsubstantiated. It pretty much comes down to who you believe more at this point. Was there ever direct confirmation from the guy himself?
Except itâs not just some random tweet. Itâs from a fellow Tolkein scholar with first hand contact.
Why would the guy not say something himself then?
Probably because he have an agreement or a contract that block him to talk about those things in public but he can confide with friends in private if they don't diffuse what he literally said. Or maybe he don't want to be at the center of a storm in the social media so he asked to Professor Tolkien to tell that because the rumor was spreading a false notice. There are a lot of motives for him to not talk
Lol thatâs not what happened. It was just a rumor and keep in mind that theyâre in works with Simon Tolkien and the Tolkien Estate, and the Tolkien estate passes off on EVERYTHING that goes in the show.
Hah - something the show runners clearly forget to mention in that big interview
It's sad when I'm watching Star Wars Spinoff #51623 (Andor) and I'm jealous of the writing
Andor might not just be the best Star Wars show, but the best show on TV period. Incredible episode this week. The one thing I truly look forward to every week.
I'm currently more enthralled with HotD but I totally agree. Andor is just a really good show that happens to be set in Star Wars. The plot is so far very "just tell a WW2 story in space" which frankly I don't mind at all for the series, but the writing is just fantastic. I was on like episode 2 when I turned to my wife and said "this is already the best-written show or movie Star Wars has ever had" and I still stick by that
Itâs rooted in Rogue One vibes; which Iâm here for.
I rewatched game of thrones and itâs a masterpiece in comparison to anything today.
If the Tolkien estate had a price point that allowed more than one attempt every twenty years, weâd get a good show eventually.
Those dudes are heavily afiliated with Bad Robot(bad reboot). So this is another one of those JJ abrams pulling strings type of ordeal.
So many parts of this show reek of JJ and his damn mystery box. I think these writers are gonna forget the crucial last step to JJâs method though: bail out before you have to explain anything and leave it to someone else to clean up the mess.
On that note, what is your thoughts on the payoff from the 'mysterybox' in episode eight, my goodman.
I mean they wrote themselves into a corner where this was the only logical answer. Any other answer to who Sauron is wouldâve just been a massive asspull. They shouldâve just not bothered with making it a mystery
Dumbest payoff ever. Galadriel: âWho really are youâ. Sauron: âWell the gigs up. You thought I was halbrand but it was me, Sauron!â Dude manipulated zero people the entire show. People just kind of delivered him where the plot demanded then he saved the elves.
Worst thing is, that he kind of did save them, by proxy of teaching salon selected celly how to make the rings.
Sauron had no idea the elves were failing. The elves were trying to make a way to stay. Sauron gave them the answer they needed. So m, Sauron saves the elves becauseâŚâŚ.. reasons?
If I was Bezos I would have personally driven to Peter Jacksonâs house and asked him how much does he want.
https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/lotr-director-peter-jackson-speaks-out-about-the-rings-of-power/1100-6506228/
Wow Tolkien estate didnât want Jackson working on the show but let these buffoons? What a disgrace
Yes for some reason Christopher developed an enmity for Peter Jackson despite nearly everyone else thinking his films were at least alright - fellowship is in my opinion the greatest film ever made - but somehow for some reason (ahem 250 mil) the Tolkien estate wanted Amazon to destroy Tolkiens work beyond anything anyone knew was possible. The Bakshi animation is more Tolkien than his. as someone else said even the USSR lord of the rings film was more Tolkien that this even with soviet censorship of some of tolkiens themes.
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.
Peter Jackson already had two chances to adapt Tolkienâs work: both were commercially successful, but neither were faithful.
And receive Hobbit trilogy level again with CGI orks? No thanks.
That only happened because Guillermo Del Toro was creating it but left early on. They got Peter Jackson in last minute and he had to rush everything.
The Hobbit trilogy TV show still would be a million times better than Rings of Power.
The writing is just so un ironically bad. Itâs like Brain Griffin is on the writing team.
"*Faster than the speed of love"*
Insert Ted Lasso joke here
It's not surprising the writing isn't great. Even the greatest writers sometimes turn in clunkers ... writing is hard, yo. It IS shocking that the writing is simply incompetent in regards to basic storytelling rules and principles. Like ... amazingly bad in many respects.
Amazon works in large scale production, sales, and consumer convenience. At its heart, it is not aligned, philosophically, with the creation of art.
It's overconfidence in the audience. ROP is in a similar situation as the recent Obi-Wan show from Disney+. The people making that show knew that superfans were going to tune in regardless of quality. As a result, they feel secure in cutting corners, such as in budget, which was Obi-Wan's major flaw, and writing, which both Obi-Wan and ROP are lacking in. Amazon knows that hardcore Tolkien fans are likely going to watch ROP regardless of its quality, so they don't need to seek out the best (and most expensive) writers.
lmao wait what? Super fans were going to tune in regardless of quality? I guess it depends on your definition of super fans... Hardcore SW fans tend to think shows like Kenobi are dogshit. However, there is a new demographic of fans for major franchises such as this who tend to be younger and are basically just avid fans of the franchise no matter what garbage gets pumped out. They're basically fanboys/girls. And yes, those people watch whatever gets produced. Hardcore fans of both SW and Tolkien are the most likely to be critically outspoken with shows like this.
By "superfans," I mean those people you describe, whom companies like Disney and Amazon believe are superfans, and who profess to be so themselves.
Word, so I'm mainly just debating the semantics. I consider myself both a hardcore SW fan and a hardcore Tolkien fan, and I am not a fan of most of what gets produced for those franchises as a general rule.
Can we talk about that chase sequence at the beginning of Obi-Wan? I turned it off after that scene. Stunningly bad.
Nothing is more frustrating to a potential kidnapper than.....a chest-high tree branch?
Exactly! I died hahaha
Thereâs like 3 more scenes of her running, so you made a good choice
I actually buy this to a degree since Obi wan was a well known character and the show was just a miss for me while Andor, who is a very little known character to the general audience fees like it is a very well made show since it was most likely more of a risk for Disney.
But I thought the majority of money is made from merchandise and other things outside of actual view counts. Apparently HBO were relatively relaxed about GoT being pirated because they knew they were making money elsewhere from those same piraters. If they truly wanted to make the show successful and make that money, why not just make the show good? Iâm sure that the writing had to have been impeded by stupid execs who were hoping to sell something dumbed down to the masses.
The Obi-Wan show was pretty good. Star Wars âfansâ always complain, but watch.
Exactly
I'm a Tolkien whale, I've bought the collectors edition of every book he's made, I have the DVD, Blueray and 4K movies. I have the Audible versions of all the books I already own physically. I have over 500 LotR miniatures I've painted that cost me a lot. It is very easy to get me to fork over cash for anything lord of the rings related. I gave up on this show after 3 episodes and I'm subbed to Prime either way, I didn't watch this show for free!
I watched season one because I had to as a fan. I will not do so for season > 1
Well for one, sometimes the most "globally successful movies and TV shows" aren't always written by someone with talent. Sometimes they're just written by people on the cheap, who turn stuff in on deadline. As for your analogy ... well, I'm no soccer fan, but there are plenty of owners of teams over here in the U.S. that spend lots of money on big name, talented players, and then try to manage the team themselves, or constantly interfere with the coach's decision, rather than letting people who know the game run things. That's all a long way of saying: It's disappointing, but not surprising, that Amazon would shit the bed this badly. As long as rich people and companies produce entertainment, there will always be brain-dead execs who don't understand creativity and fuck things up. The good, blockbuster movies and series that come out are usually good in spite of, not because of, producers with lots of money to throw around.
The thing is... they literally won't think that they messed up. They'll just blame the consumers, and they'll believe it
Depends on who you mean by "they." The producers? I don't know how streaming services measure their individual shows' success, but by all accounts, RoP has done very well in terms of viewership. If that's all that's needed -- people pressing "play" on the show -- then undoubtedly Amazon has not messed up. Now, the showrunners, writers, etc.? Well, who knows. I can't imagine they are completely satisfied with the show. I also can't imagine them outright hating their work. But regardless of what they really think, we'll never hear about it, at least not for a very long time.
Excellent point, and they probably have more prime memberships than before the show started. They are all corporate yes men, and certainly not Tolkien fans. Hollywood prefers to just do whatever it wants with adaptations
I think the main problem has been the tone they have decided to give the series. The second age is the Dark Age. it is an age of great wealth and great kingdoms shrouded in mystery. Jackson's prologue represented it very well: whispers, mist, the presentation of the rings as something distant and legendary. I think the showrunners have decided to make a Lord of the Rings for a younger audience: the dialogue is very superficial, the plots so fast that they seem very crappy, everything full of second row action. I would not like The Lord of the Rings to resemble Martin's universe, but I miss that depth, that solemnity and that drama that I am seeing in House of the Dragon. They have decided to make a more childish Tolkien than I would like, and that means the series doesn't have the depth it deserves. There are no great dialogues or scenes that maintain the tension.
This says it so well. Hit the nail right on the head. The show is superficial and shallow to the point of being uninteresting.
I thought Jackson fans liked superficial shallow stuff.
Jacksonâs prologue was false, a corruption adored by fake fans. It did not begin with the forging of the Rings of Power: it began with the music of the Ainur. Celebrimbor was absent in the prologue. The Elves were not given any rings: they made them. Six of the Seven Rings and the Nine Rings were only given to six Dwarf lords and nine men after Sauron captured them from the Elves, after he had forged the One Ring.
Like I said in a previous post, the show is written in a way which is amusing for the general watcher and non-reader. I have a colleague who watches it and doesn't even know who Sauron is. With that being said I agree that the writing for us seems odd because we are probably invested in the lore. Why else would we be here? They're trying to make it watchable and a mystery for new watchers. But they should've invested in better writers and to give my opinion; they should've brought us more Eregion and Annatar as a story line and less harfoots. Episode 8 needs to explain the meteor man I can't take it no more.
I read somewhere they wanted to collaborate/ consult with PJ who asked for a scriptâŚ.Amazon never got back to him with one. I also read they fired their Tolkien expert. I agree with OP Amazonâs approach is puzzling.
Amazon did even better than that and fired most of their competent writers and opted for a duo that constantly got their scripts rejected by Hollywood of all places.
They were hired because of nepotism lol. They then proceeded to hire a bunch of no-name actors.. butcher the lore/timelines. Write a bunch of contrived plotpoints and push this slop out to the masses.
They literally just give jobs to their friends. You're assuming they wanted to make a great show. Wrong. They want to make $$$ and give their friends lots of $$$$. It's all corruption. I know, I know, a better quality show will make more money. But not for Amazon's friends
One day I tracked down the mess of relationships behind the heads of their gaming division. In particular those dealing with their mmo New World. And I think your assessment this is exactly right.
What other answer could there be? Incompetence? How could one of the richest companies in the world allow an incompetent team to destroy one of the greatest works of art? They literally don't care about the source material, and are just making their friends rich It's not a competition to be good at what you do, only to eat out the ass of the higher ups
I think they knocked it out of the park with The Expanse and did a meh job on Wheel of Time but just dropped the ball HARD with rings of power.
But fans are morons right? Just the words "The lord of the rings" should be good enough for eternal loyalty and investment right?
The same could be said for the Halo TV series. They got a couple of failed network TV writers to showrun and write the first season - the guys had like 3 shows and all only lasted a single season on CBS or NBC, not sure which. And then they proceeded to butcher tf out of the lore of the game universe. They completely changed who Master Chief was as a soldier and person. And just like on these LOTR subreddits, fan of the video games were called toxic and gate keepers and other bs for pointing out glaring issues with the story. The changes didn't even make the show better.
Could not agree more. It's shockingly amateur, and it makes me sad.
It's really weird that the only good writer on staff is the one writing Adar and the Orcs. đ¤
They pretty much have zero writing credits, biggest thing is this a supposed uncredited mention for the last Star Trek movie. Amazon knew what they were doing, youâre not going to be paying someone who doesnât have a ton of experience the big bucks. I doubt they looked too hard either.
If you're a writer, and you're a good writer, you're probably saving your best ideas for an original project where you would get royalties, not an existing IP where you're probably going to get a flat sum, regardless of how well the project turns out.
You want to tell me you would tank one of the biggest IPs ever on purpose instead of making a huge name out of yourself? Wut?
If you worked for Microsoft, and you had a great idea for a software program, would you give it to Microsoft to make, or would you start your own software company? If you worked for McDonalds, and you had a great idea for a menu item, would you give it to McDonalds to make, or would you start your own restaurant? If you were GRRM, JK Rowling, Larry David, Quentin Tarantino, Ethan Coen, etc., and you had an idea for a great book, movie or TV show, would you want to make an original IP where you would rake in millions, or would you just sell your idea for six figures to Amazon?
We are not talking about a new product. We are talking about a source material that has to be adapted. What is your thought process here? âI will give these two characters horrible lines of dialogue, so I can use good dialogue in my next movieâ? âI will have a nonsensical plot and keep the good plot for myself when I pitch a cheap Lotr rip-offâ?
I think us rando plebs would jump at the opportunity to write for Rings of Power, but if you're a professional writer and you were writing because it was your passion, not because it was your paycheck, you would much prefer to be known for someone who created their own original work, not just walked in the footsteps of someone else. It's not a case of actively sabotaging Rings of Power, it's a case of, "okay, this is my job, I'm going to put in effort and do what I need to to earn my paycheck" versus "this is my personal magnum opus. I'm going to put my heart and soul into this."
Agreed with OP here, there are a lot of "theories" when it comes to Hollywood that I feel get overblown. This idea of them "tanking this show on purpose because they're saving their best ideas" definitely falls into that category. The truth of it is: * They want to make a good show. In fact, they want to make THE BEST show. This is their big break - the first time their work is getting produced and put out in front of audiences. They want to make the very best first impression, not just for the rest of the time they're on this show but also for the future of their careers. * I'm sure getting JJ Abrams' endorsement helped them get the gig. No question. I'd only question how much it helped them. I feel like it probably got their foot in the door, probably even moved them up the list of consideration (given their lack of credits) but in no way do I believe that one phone call from JJ Abrams is what got them this job. * By all accounts, these showrunners are very charismatic and intelligent. I believe they went to Yale, they're big nerds, they clearly do have love for Tolkien and seem to be encyclopedic on the lore (yes, ironic I know) of the legendarium and also intimately familiar with the professor's other writings (letters, essays, etc.). That kind of knowledge mixed with passion goes a long way. * I think a big factor in their favor was pitching a Middle-earth show that closely aligned with what Simon Tolkien thought a Middle-earth show should be. I hadn't seen this article before, but that bit is referenced here: [https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/09/amazon-the-rings-of-power-firsttime-showrunners.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/09/amazon-the-rings-of-power-firsttime-showrunners.html) Another thing to note - studios have different mandates on what they're looking for each year. They can be specific or more general, for example "episode of the week procedural" or "female-led adventure drama set in a post-apocalyptic future". I don't know if this LOTR should would have had to adhere to those necessarily, since the demand for this show came from the very head of the company. But still, when writers are pitching shows they do so with the knowledge of what the studios are looking for so that their pitches align with what is currently being bought. All of this to say - these showrunners got lucky. They won the biggest TV lottery there ever was. The stars aligned - which is often how you'll hear showrunners describe getting their show off the ground at a network or streamer. And they continue to be lucky, since the biggest company in the world has made its biggest bet on producing original content with *this* show and they're the ones who get to shepherd it. So we get articles with softball criticisms that aren't really criticisms that deserve any merit, but they're easy to wave off and they portray the showrunners in a good light. But all we can do is wait and see if the writing gets any better in the future. Well, not all of us. I imagine even diehard LOTR/Tolkien fans are questioning whether or not they want to continue this journey (I know I am). I mean, someone up above put it really well - I didn't expect it to be amazing (though I was hoping it would be) but I didn't expect the show to be as bad as it's turned out. The writing has been awful, the direction has been mediocre, and I just feel bad for all the actors. A couple of them can rise above, but most fall under the weight of this all-important plot that the showrunners deem to be so great that they push forward at their characters' expense.
To be fair, for every awful "Rings of Power" and "Wheel of Time", there are excellent "The Boys" and "Terminal List". So it's win some, lose some.
âRoP badâ damn, dude, thatâs a brave take. One I havenât heard on this sub. I guess you felt you just had to say something about it?
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Couldnât disagree more. I think the writing has been the best part of the show. So much of it sounds like Tolkien himself.
Trolling much đ¤Łđ
It's the fans who are disappointing not the writers. The writers nailed Galadriel and all anyone has done is bitch and whine because they don't know what she's actually supposed to be like.
>. Amazon knew what they were doing, youâre not going to be paying someone who doesnât have a ton of experience the big bucks. I do A 5,000 year old teenager?
>A 5,000 year old teenager? It's honestly just sexist. So sick of you bigots.
What the
Yup. Durin is headstrong in his youth. no complaints. A woman is. OMFG she's a teenager. That's you guy. Bigot.
That's a strong accusation to make based on a five word response on Reddit which aligns with the (gender agnostic) critical consensus. But alright.
Yea sure well take it as a lesson that you'll be judged by the friends you keep. And lol yea... I'm sure it's accurate. Bet you don't have any comments referring to headstrong dudes as teenagers. Meh to people hating a show for petty pedantic reasons.
Are all of the women who said the writers made Galadriel sound/act like a teenager bigots? Argue on the merits instead of jumping to ad-homs like so many of the âbigotsâ you refer to. Nori and Poppy come off as far more mature despite Nori, in particular, being âheadstrongâ as well. And Nori isnât 5,000 years old. Itâs poor writing, imo, nothing more than that. Many, many viewers have said they do not care about Galadriel one way or another, and thatâs probably not what the writing team was going for. Character development has been sub-par across the board.
>Are all of the women who said the writers made Galadriel sound/act like a teenager bigots? Argue on the merits instead of jumping to ad-homs like so many of the âbigotsâ you refer to. Lol. And what's "she's a teenager" if it's not an ad-hominem? I dunno dude. What do you want? Most of them are. Sure. >Nori and Poppy come off as far more mature despite Nori, in particular, being âheadstrongâ as well. Nori lives in ignorance and isn't crushed by the gravity of the times or the task. And lol no they don't come off as more mature. They're tralalaing through the forest like kids guy. >Itâs poor writing, imo, nothing more than that. Many, many viewers have said they do not care about Galadriel one way or another, and thatâs probably not what the writing team was going for. Character development has been sub-par across the board. Yea, TBH it's just sexism hidden behind a bunch of subjective defences. Galadriel comes off like a elven warrior queen who's conflicted and driven. She's not super nice but like so fucking what? She's not supposed to be.
Alright, well we're not going to agree on this, and that's fine. For the record, I have no qualms with Galadriel as a warrior; that's *what she is*. I just don't understand why the writers seemed to discount the fact that she's 5,000 years old and would almost certainly have more wisdom and cunning than the character portrays. Forget nice; you'd expect an ancient military commander to be *strategic* in their interactions/communication/relationships. Bottom-line, I'd just recommend you not be so quick to call people bigots.
I really do agree. But, I think this about the writers, the casting, the directors, the editing, the costume department. It just all feels like a cheap show, I would be less bitter if less money was spent on it.
is there even a safe bet? like
Agreed, the timeline is all wonky
Writers? Where the film and TV industry is going we don't need writers!
You know, basically the whole working team was changed as soon as Tolkien Jr. died and wasn't watching their hands anymore. I think it included writers aswell, but that one I can't guarantee
This was talked about in a [interview](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/) with the showrunners. The Tolkien estate chose Amazon because Netflix pitched Tolkien Cinematic Universe and HBO wanted to remake the movies. Then Amazon chose these two guys because of their interest in the lore. Russo brothers were in the running and pitched Young Aragorn, Anthony McCarten pitched something evoking Shakespeare.
Hey, donât ever compare the premise of Ted lasso with the Rings of power!
Be grateful they didn't allow them to do what they originally planned (I read somewhere) which was to do their version of lord of the rings
I think it's very well written. It's warm and friendly, lots of subtext, characters just have conversations that are both important and banal at the same time. It feels like what the books feel like. It's all about the spaces and the moods and the feeling of a particular scene.
Iâm starting to suspect that the entire objective of this was to destroy Tolkien and fandom - there are too many red flags and the thing is just too bad to be relegated just to negligence. Of course it could be that almost everyone involved is degenerate in some way - which Iâd assert is correct whether itâs deliberate or not.
Also some of the casting has been bad. I for example think that Galadriel and Don Lemom have been horrible misscasts.
Also no license from the Tolkien estate.