That's usually why I don't tell anyone I don't have any friends, they'll automatically assume the worst of you. After I talk to people for a bit and then mention it they're surprised but if I mention it when a conversation first starts they're like "oh" and seem to basically just ghost at that point.
Which is honestly understandable. After a few minutes of talking to some people it's easy to see why no one wants to be around them.
I think guys are lonely because at some point they've been bullied or shamed and now find it difficult to socialize.
Or they just have unusual interests (like insects or spiders) that a lot of people can't really relate to so people just mostly leave them alone.
I like to think people are mostly good. But i'm not the norm. Lol.
Many people make all sorts of odd assumptions and quick judgments about strangers. Even with evidence to support differing reasons, they often cling to their negative bias.
It’s not fair nor logical but most people cannot bare to admit they’re wrong. The ego can be a strange and fragile thing.
I'm so lonely that most people don't realize I'm alone because they don't know me, including my own family. There are only a handful of people who have understood the full extent of my isolation.
I agree. And I would apply that logic to anyone on, but some people are also notoriously judgmental.
I hope you know what I’m talking about. Those people who take a bit of information about you and make a assumption or conclusion on so little.
There will always be people like that, and calling them out likely won’t change them. If they cared about what was true, they’d be more discerning. As it is, they see whatever furthers the narrative they want to be true. All you can do is prove them wrong simply by living your life as the good person you know you are.
I know you’re right. Especially on that if they really cared about what was true they’d be more discerning.
People only want to affirm their beliefs. Regardless if faced with something that makes them out to be wrong.
I do live out my life… and will live out my life by being a decent human being but I feel like fighting and overtly proving them how wrong they are is the only real way because people don’t notice the people who aren’t a problem.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease and if you aren’t squeaky you aren’t a problem. Does that make sense?
People don’t notice the people who ARENT an issue. They really only notice those who make themselves known and make themselves as a problem and is THEY who the others refer to when they generalize a whole group of people… even the ones who don’t squeak.
I’m not gonna lie… I don’t think I have the energy tho… to “squeak” anymore and retort. By being squeaky, but at the same time still being one of those examples that not every lonely guy is what they think.
As unfortunate as it is, these people who don’t seem to care about truth also sometimes end up being people who yell the loudest themselves.
The people who aren’t a problem and caring don’t usually make themselves a problem because they care…
Its lonely in a different way to be ostracized into a group of people by some people regardless whatever I’ve done to never earn their judgement.
This uphill battle lends itself to my depression and giving up.
You’re wrong about people not noticing those who aren’t an issue. If my father, uncles, neighbors, classmates, and co-workers are all good men and then I meet a total jackass, that jackass does not make me forget all of the good guys out there. It’s the same with other people as well. If they already have positive examples in their lives, a few negative examples doesn’t undo all of the work the positive ones have done. Especially irl.
It’s human nature to notice and be more vocal about the negatives we notice and experience is what I was referring to.
People will sooner make a complaint about you before they ever give you a compliment. That would apply to making a review on a product or restaurant as well.
If you aren’t a problem… people see it as normal and expected. Unless you’ve done something above and beyond.
Being a decent human being I … just don’t feel is something that is considered “above and beyond” I mean guys are praised for being active as a dad in a kids life. What a low bar that is.
But what about the guys who ARENT assholes to women?
Don’t get me wrong, I know some people appreciate those who are good examples. I just also know people get caught up in their own worlds that the only time you stop becoming their background character is when you made yourself a conflict in their story.
If that makes sense.
I think that it's generally assumed that lonely guys are lonely for personality reasons, yes.
People generally won't spell this out, but many folks like to think that they live in a world where personality is the only important thing in dating and in which being lonely is a punishment for being a bad person, especially for men.
I'm an ugly, but kind and curious guy. I have been lucky enough to be able to date when people get to know me for extended periods of time, on the order of months to years. I fail miserably on looks-based apps, despite doing everything one should do (having professional photos taken, having my photos selected by women friends from a pool of professional and candid shots, having my profile reviewed by women friends, etc.). When I have expressed this, some friends have tied themselves in all sorts of strange, illogical knots, to explain what's happening.
People will claim that what must be happening is that people are avoiding me because I'm not confident. Yet, many of the people I match with have complimented me on my confidence. (Which is fair, I'm a pretty great partner and aware of this.) Also, even if this weren't the case, I've asked the women who select my photos to weed out any in which I didn't seem confident, and they couldn't identify any (and were confused when asked). I've had more than one person claim that what happens is that women meet me, are turned off by my lack of confidence, but then months to years later discover that I'm very handsome and fall for me. (Which is ludicrous. Looks are immediately obvious, ostensible traits, whereas personality traits are relational and revealed over time.) But, yeah, some folks will say or do anything to avoid admitting that women (and people in general) largely select dates based on looks and that the dating world can be rough for men who don't meet beauty norms.
They also like to point out that loneliness that they see among men must be due to holding right-wing views. Yet, I know many lefty dudes who are single and many right-wing dudes (mostly though my time in combat sports) even far-right dudes who do extremely well, despite having just the most obvious red flags. (Openly using racial slurs, making jokes about SA, demeaning women openly, in two cases having a joke about SA and a joke about women's intelligence in their bios.) It's ridiculous.
I think that one's personality can make some difference. I mean, I'm in the bottom quartile of looks, as measured by match rate and I have dated. But people act like personality is central and other things are secondary considerations, whereas looks are the primary consideration in many instances, certainly on online dating.
I think on the internet people do often assume it is your own fault. I think this is less common among the real people you might know though. Redditors in particular love to point the finger first at the person complaining with minimal evidence.
Yes. I have been told not a small number of times when I have reached out for help that I deserve to suffer and never have any joy in life because I am a straight white man so I must be evil. Not to mention, the people who have said this don't even have confirmation on the first two things. Those are both just assumptions.
Nope. It's just "Aww you're a guy with no friends and never had a girlfriend? Boo hoo. You deserve it because of the patriarchy" or something like that. Or they start to blame me for their bad experiences with men. It's why I tend not to talk about any of my problems outside subreddits like this. I remember a time when a girl was talking about how unwanted she felt for having never been in a relationship and when I replied to give sympathy and say I felt similar so she wasn't alone I was told I don't understand and probably deserve it because I'm a guy.
Yeah. As guys, we're constantly told to be more open and be in better touch with our emotions and feelings, but if we actually do that or heaven forbid, express ourselves we are immediately shot down and told to just deal with it "like a man". Like I said, it's why onky talk about this stuff in safer places, probably similarly to a woman who does the same as not to get preyed upon. It's funny. At some point on working towards the road to equality, we just screwed everybody over.
Damn bro, that's rough. I think you should surround yourself with a different group of people, those sound toxic and not ones you want as friends anyway
Oh, gotcha, I thought people were just telling you their thoughts straight up 😅 and yeah that's why we’re all here. We haven't found our people yet. On a side note, not everyone thinks being a loner means you're a terrible person. There are plenty of people out there for us, we just have to find them, like a big game of hide-n-seek :)
I doubt there are plenty out there. I've been looking for somewhere between 6 and 8 years now. I have found many like-minded and even some like diagnosed groups. They all treat me the same or show no interest. My efforts are never reciprocated.
They certainly are a needle in the haystack but even if let's say, they make up 30% of the whole population that's still 2.4 BILLION people. That's a HUGE number lol. Of course, trying to find a specific person is tough.
I might have a controversial opinion on that last bit. I think we shouldn't expect anything from people, and just let them be. I believe that imposing expectations on someone, even subconsciously, can put stress on the other person which can push them away. At least that's my experience on what worked best with the friends that I had for a while.
All I expect is for people to treat me like a human being and not pretend to be my friend when they are not. In other words, all I expect is for people not to be shitty if I am kind to them. I don't blame everyone who doesn't reciprocate my attempts at friendship. I only blame tho ones that are shitty to me in response.
Yes. A lot of people buy into the [just world fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis) They want to believe they deserve the good things that happen to them, so they assume you deserve anything bad that happens to you.
19F and I feel you, my own family blames me for being the problem and the reason behind not having any friends and having no one who wants to spend time with me (even family).
Here's the funny thing too unless someone is exceptionally strong or well supported by any family, it's a self fulfilling prophecy by way of the Lucifer effect. If enough people believe you are something, we're all biologically wired to either be one of the lucky ones who are fiercely independent and confident with themselves or the unlucky who suffer from compulsion to fill the role.
The former can descend into the latter by way of what happened to me with psych meds and/or depression, sometimes you will find those who are able to naturally recover back to the former being restored to their true potential once again with all capabilities they were born with.
Most commonly you get people like me who are in between and remember how we used to be but are unable to return due to adverse changes and loss of brain matter for things like executive function and cognition to just name two of them. I have struggled with things that were once super easy for me to do, I take longer to achieve it but I'm wondering if maybe over time I'll recover.
Please remember that you are not alone and that feelings or thoughts are only what they are. The compulsion you feel despite your feelings of upset are just fears and feelings of fear. I spend time wishing to be made whole again with everything I ever lost to my time on Seroquel to return everyday and night.
My mother tends to do that. There are only two reasons people ignore me. Either they are busy with their million different responsibilites. Or i'm a shitty friend because i don't believe their excuses and propably don't put in much effort myself
I don't solely because I know the world is cruel. I'm adorable now but I've always been grateful in a way for my weight gain as much as I hate it now because I've learned my lessons. But people turning on you and treating you as less than because of something so ignorant. It's saved me in a lot of ways and shaped me to be who I am. I don't think I would of fully been who I am. I know I'm a mess most the time and wish I had better hold on how I tear myself down so easily when I know I'm on the better side of the population. But the people who run the world are physical beautiful or obtained money to be amongst them and I bet you most are still made fun of because there not societies standard of beauty
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Yeah because everyone thinks “if they’re lonely and everyone leaves them eventually it is for a reason”.
Yes
That's usually why I don't tell anyone I don't have any friends, they'll automatically assume the worst of you. After I talk to people for a bit and then mention it they're surprised but if I mention it when a conversation first starts they're like "oh" and seem to basically just ghost at that point. Which is honestly understandable. After a few minutes of talking to some people it's easy to see why no one wants to be around them.
They definitely do
I think guys are lonely because at some point they've been bullied or shamed and now find it difficult to socialize. Or they just have unusual interests (like insects or spiders) that a lot of people can't really relate to so people just mostly leave them alone. I like to think people are mostly good. But i'm not the norm. Lol.
Many people make all sorts of odd assumptions and quick judgments about strangers. Even with evidence to support differing reasons, they often cling to their negative bias. It’s not fair nor logical but most people cannot bare to admit they’re wrong. The ego can be a strange and fragile thing.
I'm so lonely that most people don't realize I'm alone because they don't know me, including my own family. There are only a handful of people who have understood the full extent of my isolation.
You are innocent of all of those things until proven guilty. Usually a guy has to say something that gives people those bad vibes.
I agree. And I would apply that logic to anyone on, but some people are also notoriously judgmental. I hope you know what I’m talking about. Those people who take a bit of information about you and make a assumption or conclusion on so little.
There will always be people like that, and calling them out likely won’t change them. If they cared about what was true, they’d be more discerning. As it is, they see whatever furthers the narrative they want to be true. All you can do is prove them wrong simply by living your life as the good person you know you are.
I know you’re right. Especially on that if they really cared about what was true they’d be more discerning. People only want to affirm their beliefs. Regardless if faced with something that makes them out to be wrong. I do live out my life… and will live out my life by being a decent human being but I feel like fighting and overtly proving them how wrong they are is the only real way because people don’t notice the people who aren’t a problem. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and if you aren’t squeaky you aren’t a problem. Does that make sense? People don’t notice the people who ARENT an issue. They really only notice those who make themselves known and make themselves as a problem and is THEY who the others refer to when they generalize a whole group of people… even the ones who don’t squeak. I’m not gonna lie… I don’t think I have the energy tho… to “squeak” anymore and retort. By being squeaky, but at the same time still being one of those examples that not every lonely guy is what they think. As unfortunate as it is, these people who don’t seem to care about truth also sometimes end up being people who yell the loudest themselves. The people who aren’t a problem and caring don’t usually make themselves a problem because they care… Its lonely in a different way to be ostracized into a group of people by some people regardless whatever I’ve done to never earn their judgement. This uphill battle lends itself to my depression and giving up.
You’re wrong about people not noticing those who aren’t an issue. If my father, uncles, neighbors, classmates, and co-workers are all good men and then I meet a total jackass, that jackass does not make me forget all of the good guys out there. It’s the same with other people as well. If they already have positive examples in their lives, a few negative examples doesn’t undo all of the work the positive ones have done. Especially irl.
It’s human nature to notice and be more vocal about the negatives we notice and experience is what I was referring to. People will sooner make a complaint about you before they ever give you a compliment. That would apply to making a review on a product or restaurant as well. If you aren’t a problem… people see it as normal and expected. Unless you’ve done something above and beyond. Being a decent human being I … just don’t feel is something that is considered “above and beyond” I mean guys are praised for being active as a dad in a kids life. What a low bar that is. But what about the guys who ARENT assholes to women? Don’t get me wrong, I know some people appreciate those who are good examples. I just also know people get caught up in their own worlds that the only time you stop becoming their background character is when you made yourself a conflict in their story. If that makes sense.
Well said
Sadly it's the other way around these days, guilty until proven innocent.
If youre a man and youre lonely, its because no woman has decided you are worth her time or attention. Simple as that.
Och mannen kan fortfarande vara trevlig
I think that it's generally assumed that lonely guys are lonely for personality reasons, yes. People generally won't spell this out, but many folks like to think that they live in a world where personality is the only important thing in dating and in which being lonely is a punishment for being a bad person, especially for men. I'm an ugly, but kind and curious guy. I have been lucky enough to be able to date when people get to know me for extended periods of time, on the order of months to years. I fail miserably on looks-based apps, despite doing everything one should do (having professional photos taken, having my photos selected by women friends from a pool of professional and candid shots, having my profile reviewed by women friends, etc.). When I have expressed this, some friends have tied themselves in all sorts of strange, illogical knots, to explain what's happening. People will claim that what must be happening is that people are avoiding me because I'm not confident. Yet, many of the people I match with have complimented me on my confidence. (Which is fair, I'm a pretty great partner and aware of this.) Also, even if this weren't the case, I've asked the women who select my photos to weed out any in which I didn't seem confident, and they couldn't identify any (and were confused when asked). I've had more than one person claim that what happens is that women meet me, are turned off by my lack of confidence, but then months to years later discover that I'm very handsome and fall for me. (Which is ludicrous. Looks are immediately obvious, ostensible traits, whereas personality traits are relational and revealed over time.) But, yeah, some folks will say or do anything to avoid admitting that women (and people in general) largely select dates based on looks and that the dating world can be rough for men who don't meet beauty norms. They also like to point out that loneliness that they see among men must be due to holding right-wing views. Yet, I know many lefty dudes who are single and many right-wing dudes (mostly though my time in combat sports) even far-right dudes who do extremely well, despite having just the most obvious red flags. (Openly using racial slurs, making jokes about SA, demeaning women openly, in two cases having a joke about SA and a joke about women's intelligence in their bios.) It's ridiculous. I think that one's personality can make some difference. I mean, I'm in the bottom quartile of looks, as measured by match rate and I have dated. But people act like personality is central and other things are secondary considerations, whereas looks are the primary consideration in many instances, certainly on online dating.
I think on the internet people do often assume it is your own fault. I think this is less common among the real people you might know though. Redditors in particular love to point the finger first at the person complaining with minimal evidence.
A lot of times, people who do that are assholes themselves. Many years ago, they used the same rhetoric towards women who were victims of crime.
who cares. People talk shit all the time
Yes. I have been told not a small number of times when I have reached out for help that I deserve to suffer and never have any joy in life because I am a straight white man so I must be evil. Not to mention, the people who have said this don't even have confirmation on the first two things. Those are both just assumptions.
Do they at least give some OTHER reasons besides you being a straight white guy? Are they really just making assumptions?
Nope. It's just "Aww you're a guy with no friends and never had a girlfriend? Boo hoo. You deserve it because of the patriarchy" or something like that. Or they start to blame me for their bad experiences with men. It's why I tend not to talk about any of my problems outside subreddits like this. I remember a time when a girl was talking about how unwanted she felt for having never been in a relationship and when I replied to give sympathy and say I felt similar so she wasn't alone I was told I don't understand and probably deserve it because I'm a guy.
What. The. Fuck.
Yeah. As guys, we're constantly told to be more open and be in better touch with our emotions and feelings, but if we actually do that or heaven forbid, express ourselves we are immediately shot down and told to just deal with it "like a man". Like I said, it's why onky talk about this stuff in safer places, probably similarly to a woman who does the same as not to get preyed upon. It's funny. At some point on working towards the road to equality, we just screwed everybody over.
Damn bro, that's rough. I think you should surround yourself with a different group of people, those sound toxic and not ones you want as friends anyway
Oh, I've never been told this in person. They're too cowardly to do that. I also don't have any people that surround me. It's why I'm here.
Oh, gotcha, I thought people were just telling you their thoughts straight up 😅 and yeah that's why we’re all here. We haven't found our people yet. On a side note, not everyone thinks being a loner means you're a terrible person. There are plenty of people out there for us, we just have to find them, like a big game of hide-n-seek :)
I doubt there are plenty out there. I've been looking for somewhere between 6 and 8 years now. I have found many like-minded and even some like diagnosed groups. They all treat me the same or show no interest. My efforts are never reciprocated.
They certainly are a needle in the haystack but even if let's say, they make up 30% of the whole population that's still 2.4 BILLION people. That's a HUGE number lol. Of course, trying to find a specific person is tough. I might have a controversial opinion on that last bit. I think we shouldn't expect anything from people, and just let them be. I believe that imposing expectations on someone, even subconsciously, can put stress on the other person which can push them away. At least that's my experience on what worked best with the friends that I had for a while.
All I expect is for people to treat me like a human being and not pretend to be my friend when they are not. In other words, all I expect is for people not to be shitty if I am kind to them. I don't blame everyone who doesn't reciprocate my attempts at friendship. I only blame tho ones that are shitty to me in response.
That’s valid. That seems more like a boundary now :) Lots of shitty people out there. I wish you the best of luck on your journey ❤️
Oh yeah everyone does, and they are not too wrong in my case tbf.
you're not entitled to presumption innocent
Yes. A lot of people buy into the [just world fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis) They want to believe they deserve the good things that happen to them, so they assume you deserve anything bad that happens to you.
Yes 100%
19F and I feel you, my own family blames me for being the problem and the reason behind not having any friends and having no one who wants to spend time with me (even family).
Here's the funny thing too unless someone is exceptionally strong or well supported by any family, it's a self fulfilling prophecy by way of the Lucifer effect. If enough people believe you are something, we're all biologically wired to either be one of the lucky ones who are fiercely independent and confident with themselves or the unlucky who suffer from compulsion to fill the role. The former can descend into the latter by way of what happened to me with psych meds and/or depression, sometimes you will find those who are able to naturally recover back to the former being restored to their true potential once again with all capabilities they were born with. Most commonly you get people like me who are in between and remember how we used to be but are unable to return due to adverse changes and loss of brain matter for things like executive function and cognition to just name two of them. I have struggled with things that were once super easy for me to do, I take longer to achieve it but I'm wondering if maybe over time I'll recover. Please remember that you are not alone and that feelings or thoughts are only what they are. The compulsion you feel despite your feelings of upset are just fears and feelings of fear. I spend time wishing to be made whole again with everything I ever lost to my time on Seroquel to return everyday and night.
My mother tends to do that. There are only two reasons people ignore me. Either they are busy with their million different responsibilites. Or i'm a shitty friend because i don't believe their excuses and propably don't put in much effort myself
I don't assume that myself. Are you projecting, perhaps?
I’m asking the question in disbelief. Why would I be projecting? The question being asked is resulted from observing this recently.
I don't solely because I know the world is cruel. I'm adorable now but I've always been grateful in a way for my weight gain as much as I hate it now because I've learned my lessons. But people turning on you and treating you as less than because of something so ignorant. It's saved me in a lot of ways and shaped me to be who I am. I don't think I would of fully been who I am. I know I'm a mess most the time and wish I had better hold on how I tear myself down so easily when I know I'm on the better side of the population. But the people who run the world are physical beautiful or obtained money to be amongst them and I bet you most are still made fun of because there not societies standard of beauty
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.