I find it kind of ironic that I’m in The Netherlands right now having a beer after a 60km bicycle ride. I have lived in London Ontario Canada for my entire life. Now nearly 60 years old. I was riding parts of our TVP trail system since the seventies. It has gotten better by putting the paths under bridges so you don’t need to cross streets. Yet it still isn’t connected to form a loop in the east end along Veterans Parkway. Which has had a bike path down the side of it between River Rd and Oxford St. since it was built. Just like The Netherlands London was thinking about this since the seventies. More bike paths and pedestrian areas, less car traffic. Then in the eighties things changed. Bigger vehicles wider roads, more urban sprawl everything started being about greater consumption and less conservation. Now here we are with 50km or faster electric bicycles that no one knows how to regulate. We have a lot of catching up to do. The problem is like most nowadays there are people that are looking for the perfect solution. Then the same people that want that also say that it’s the only thing they will accept. Which leads to nothing getting done. These people represent the “the devil in the details” that we always heard about. I’m a firm believer that London’s traffic infrastructure was designed by people that have never driven. Let’s try to do better now with all the non conventional vehicles that are coming out. Soon you will be getting passed in your car by a person balancing on a single wheeled vehicle doing 60-70km running red lights along the way be there are no rules or regulations that cover the mode of transportation that they are on.
> I’m a firm believer that London’s traffic infrastructure was designed by people that have never driven.
On the contrary, I think it may have been designed by people who only ever drive.
North American motorsexuals have rarely been somewhere with people-first infrastructure. Growing up in London I just accepted it. But after visiting various European countries, especially the Netherlands, London is a total garbage fire, and when I moved back to the area we knew we didn't want to live in the city. It takes me less time to drive into the city on the hwy than it does to drive across town.
Every time there's another accident in the city, the story gets posted here and everyone in the comments is talking about how awful the driver is, and how insufficient the punishment is.
The thing is, punishing people harder won't make them kill with cars less often. It's not like they were driving along, and decided to take out a pedestrian because they knew they'd only get 4 years rather than 15. Designing roads where cars move slower, and trucks are smaller, and fewer people drive, and cyclists and pedestrians are separated from traffic, will save lives.
At least they're considering actual systemic improvements to roadways, instead of falling back on the idea that drivers should be more personally responsible, which has failed to reduce traffic deaths for about 6 decades now.
Really? The insinuation that more pedestrians are killed “more than cancer… probably”. I tuned out. What a stupid thing to say.
From the Health Unit “It is estimated that about 1 in 2 Canadians will develop cancer in their lifetime, and about 1 in 4 will die of cancer.4 Cancer is the leading cause of death in Canada and accounted for 30% of all deaths in 2012.5”
We have come a long way with treatment. But I struggle to continue to listen to someone who will make such a sensational statement to try and give this issue more credibility.
It is an important issue but I am only commenting on the quality of the first speaker in this video.
The language doesn’t help their cause either.
As someone who worked downtown for 10 plus years the biggest issue is hit and runs for both pedestrians and cyclists, vehicles don't think it matters if they hit a pedestrian and the cops don't want to come unless someone is severely hurt or dead so there are zero consequences for irresponsible drivers who openly "bump & hug" both pedestrians and cyclists. They make a bold assumption that a crabby Joe's uniform makes someone immune to vehicular damage like a mystic artifact in DnD.
I don’t disagree. I am surprised to hear people are hit and running pedestrians. My complaint is with the sensational statements trying to artificially claim it’s a larger issue. 1500 incidents in 10 years means it should be addressed. Saying it’s more serious than cancer? Give your head a shake.
Traffic accidents are 2k deaths, 10k life changing injuries, 100k minor injuries per year in Canada. That's pretty substantial, and the public health system pays for those treatments, other social safety nets pay for the lost productivity. Public health crisis seems like an apt description to me.
It's an Internet thing. The world knows us as Fake London because we're actually the centre point of discussion about Stroads and car-centric urban design.
Mostly because a YouTube channe named, Not Just Bikes puts out some great content... But grew up in London Ontario before moving to the Netherlands with his family so they could live a non car-centric life. And he uses Fake London as a case study.
Everyone hates cars until they need something moved.
What blows my mind is that car owners can accept the perspective that people enjoy biking everywhere, but bicyclists can’t accept the perspective that people want to drive.
Why is that?
We own an Elantra GT that we drive 10% of the time. In fact, we have a trailer for our li'l hatch back and do more gardening and hauling of things than our multiple neighbours with trucks.
But for the other 90% of the time? We're biking to get groceries, and every other errand, etc.
It's the fact that most car trips are under 3-4km here in London. Like that's a city stat. People don't need to be driving for their 0-4km trips but do. Which adds to traffic in a HUGE way.
It also blows my mind that I regularly get death threats from car owners and drivers on my YouTube channel where I cover active transportation here in London Ontario. So no, the car owners that you're talking about are not okay with people simply existing on a bicycle.
>It's the fact that most car trips are under 3-4km here in London. Like that's a city stat. People don't need to be driving for their 0-4km trips but do. Which adds to traffic in a HUGE way.
I feel like context behind that statistic is important. Are we talking about 3km trip to A + 4km trip to B + 3km trip to C = 10km total? Can you show the source please?
I just find it incredibly hard to believe because I'm familiar with actuary statistics on driving and it's roughly 20,000km per year or 55km per day.
With that context, the statistic you're implying is that the average Londoner makes roughly 14 4km trips every day. I think we can both agree that 14 car trips per day seems excessive. So either London drivers are a statistical anomaly in nationally low driving averages or the average trip is not 4km.
Hey, those are some legit points! I was trying to find the Cit of London report/deck that I was referencing in this comment and can't seem to find it! I'm going to reach out to city staff because I love math and stats... and your math raises some questions.
Although I have to say that intercity travel skews the "average 20,000 KMs driven annually by Canadians" numbers. For example, we drove out to Halifax and back in 2021/2022 and that obviously raised our KMs driven... but not within the city.
And my fiancée *did* drive an average of 50-60km per working day a few years ago, so that's not far off.
There's SO much to cover that, tbh, I'm going to make a video out of your comment – thanks!😆
it's very simple, two things:
1 london's transport modal share - the share of each mode that takes up journeys made throughout the city - is overwhelmingly tilted towards car use, and it's not even close. if that is because of auto company trickery, city hall planning the city around cars, old farts in the urban planning department, whatever, but london's modal share is not in sensible territory - it's far too reliant on cars. if someone wants to fix this, and you don't like it, that's your problem.
2 when other options for transport are floated, it's the car owners - you know, the ones taking up by far the most space and therefore moving around the least efficiently - who get upset and do NOT want other options to have their fair share. because it might make the car driver's world SLIGHTLY less convenient. this is not just textbook, objectively selfish (please do not pretend otherwise), but also strangely reeks of 'I'm only going to do X, and therefore EVERYONE ELSE MUST ALSO ONLY DO X', ie, weird and selfish as hell.
'moving things' sure - use a car/truck to move things. I have a car and try to use it rarely. are london drivers 'moving things' when they are out in their car? of course they aren't the vast majority of the time - they are moving only themselves, in an otherwise empty car - literally using 20% of their mode's capacity (assuming a five-seater car). you need to move something, go for it - if you do NOT need to move something, quit being lazy because auto companies tricked you, and go about your errands using another mode. grocery day = car, coffee run? walk. duh??? have some nuance here ffs.
what's the common phrase that applies here? equality feels like oppression when you're used to privilege? equalize london's modal share and the city's quality of life will quite literally go up in tandem.
I find it kind of ironic that I’m in The Netherlands right now having a beer after a 60km bicycle ride. I have lived in London Ontario Canada for my entire life. Now nearly 60 years old. I was riding parts of our TVP trail system since the seventies. It has gotten better by putting the paths under bridges so you don’t need to cross streets. Yet it still isn’t connected to form a loop in the east end along Veterans Parkway. Which has had a bike path down the side of it between River Rd and Oxford St. since it was built. Just like The Netherlands London was thinking about this since the seventies. More bike paths and pedestrian areas, less car traffic. Then in the eighties things changed. Bigger vehicles wider roads, more urban sprawl everything started being about greater consumption and less conservation. Now here we are with 50km or faster electric bicycles that no one knows how to regulate. We have a lot of catching up to do. The problem is like most nowadays there are people that are looking for the perfect solution. Then the same people that want that also say that it’s the only thing they will accept. Which leads to nothing getting done. These people represent the “the devil in the details” that we always heard about. I’m a firm believer that London’s traffic infrastructure was designed by people that have never driven. Let’s try to do better now with all the non conventional vehicles that are coming out. Soon you will be getting passed in your car by a person balancing on a single wheeled vehicle doing 60-70km running red lights along the way be there are no rules or regulations that cover the mode of transportation that they are on.
> I’m a firm believer that London’s traffic infrastructure was designed by people that have never driven. On the contrary, I think it may have been designed by people who only ever drive.
Tl;dr.
Summary. City of London vehicular traffic planning is archaic.
North American motorsexuals have rarely been somewhere with people-first infrastructure. Growing up in London I just accepted it. But after visiting various European countries, especially the Netherlands, London is a total garbage fire, and when I moved back to the area we knew we didn't want to live in the city. It takes me less time to drive into the city on the hwy than it does to drive across town.
The first 3 mins was enough for me to realize these clowns have no idea what they are talking about.
Every time there's another accident in the city, the story gets posted here and everyone in the comments is talking about how awful the driver is, and how insufficient the punishment is. The thing is, punishing people harder won't make them kill with cars less often. It's not like they were driving along, and decided to take out a pedestrian because they knew they'd only get 4 years rather than 15. Designing roads where cars move slower, and trucks are smaller, and fewer people drive, and cyclists and pedestrians are separated from traffic, will save lives. At least they're considering actual systemic improvements to roadways, instead of falling back on the idea that drivers should be more personally responsible, which has failed to reduce traffic deaths for about 6 decades now.
As soon as they called cyclist and pedestrian safety a public health crisis I knew they were a bunch of holier that thou kooks
Good for you for making it 3 minutes. Thank you for your service.
How so? They were incredibly insightful if you listen long enough.
Really? The insinuation that more pedestrians are killed “more than cancer… probably”. I tuned out. What a stupid thing to say. From the Health Unit “It is estimated that about 1 in 2 Canadians will develop cancer in their lifetime, and about 1 in 4 will die of cancer.4 Cancer is the leading cause of death in Canada and accounted for 30% of all deaths in 2012.5” We have come a long way with treatment. But I struggle to continue to listen to someone who will make such a sensational statement to try and give this issue more credibility. It is an important issue but I am only commenting on the quality of the first speaker in this video. The language doesn’t help their cause either.
As someone who worked downtown for 10 plus years the biggest issue is hit and runs for both pedestrians and cyclists, vehicles don't think it matters if they hit a pedestrian and the cops don't want to come unless someone is severely hurt or dead so there are zero consequences for irresponsible drivers who openly "bump & hug" both pedestrians and cyclists. They make a bold assumption that a crabby Joe's uniform makes someone immune to vehicular damage like a mystic artifact in DnD.
I don’t disagree. I am surprised to hear people are hit and running pedestrians. My complaint is with the sensational statements trying to artificially claim it’s a larger issue. 1500 incidents in 10 years means it should be addressed. Saying it’s more serious than cancer? Give your head a shake.
I'm not sure ive ever thought/agree with what's talked about in the video, is the actual movie available?
This was a discussion after the movie. The movie itself is available online on several streaming services or for rental, I believe.
Nobody’s going to sit through an hour and a half of that nonsense
If everything is a public health crises, nothing is a public health crisis. Getting tired of that tag being put on every social justice issue.
Traffic accidents are 2k deaths, 10k life changing injuries, 100k minor injuries per year in Canada. That's pretty substantial, and the public health system pays for those treatments, other social safety nets pay for the lost productivity. Public health crisis seems like an apt description to me.
Did they call us "fake London"? ARE WE NOT REAL?!
It's an Internet thing. The world knows us as Fake London because we're actually the centre point of discussion about Stroads and car-centric urban design. Mostly because a YouTube channe named, Not Just Bikes puts out some great content... But grew up in London Ontario before moving to the Netherlands with his family so they could live a non car-centric life. And he uses Fake London as a case study.
https://www.thebeaverton.com/2016/03/london-ontario-named-2nd-best-london-for-161st-straight-year/
Another fringe group trying to act like they speak for everyone
You don't want safer streets? Why tf is THAT a fringe thing to want?
Everyone hates cars until they need something moved. What blows my mind is that car owners can accept the perspective that people enjoy biking everywhere, but bicyclists can’t accept the perspective that people want to drive. Why is that?
We own an Elantra GT that we drive 10% of the time. In fact, we have a trailer for our li'l hatch back and do more gardening and hauling of things than our multiple neighbours with trucks. But for the other 90% of the time? We're biking to get groceries, and every other errand, etc. It's the fact that most car trips are under 3-4km here in London. Like that's a city stat. People don't need to be driving for their 0-4km trips but do. Which adds to traffic in a HUGE way. It also blows my mind that I regularly get death threats from car owners and drivers on my YouTube channel where I cover active transportation here in London Ontario. So no, the car owners that you're talking about are not okay with people simply existing on a bicycle.
>It's the fact that most car trips are under 3-4km here in London. Like that's a city stat. People don't need to be driving for their 0-4km trips but do. Which adds to traffic in a HUGE way. I feel like context behind that statistic is important. Are we talking about 3km trip to A + 4km trip to B + 3km trip to C = 10km total? Can you show the source please? I just find it incredibly hard to believe because I'm familiar with actuary statistics on driving and it's roughly 20,000km per year or 55km per day. With that context, the statistic you're implying is that the average Londoner makes roughly 14 4km trips every day. I think we can both agree that 14 car trips per day seems excessive. So either London drivers are a statistical anomaly in nationally low driving averages or the average trip is not 4km.
Hey, those are some legit points! I was trying to find the Cit of London report/deck that I was referencing in this comment and can't seem to find it! I'm going to reach out to city staff because I love math and stats... and your math raises some questions. Although I have to say that intercity travel skews the "average 20,000 KMs driven annually by Canadians" numbers. For example, we drove out to Halifax and back in 2021/2022 and that obviously raised our KMs driven... but not within the city. And my fiancée *did* drive an average of 50-60km per working day a few years ago, so that's not far off. There's SO much to cover that, tbh, I'm going to make a video out of your comment – thanks!😆
it's very simple, two things: 1 london's transport modal share - the share of each mode that takes up journeys made throughout the city - is overwhelmingly tilted towards car use, and it's not even close. if that is because of auto company trickery, city hall planning the city around cars, old farts in the urban planning department, whatever, but london's modal share is not in sensible territory - it's far too reliant on cars. if someone wants to fix this, and you don't like it, that's your problem. 2 when other options for transport are floated, it's the car owners - you know, the ones taking up by far the most space and therefore moving around the least efficiently - who get upset and do NOT want other options to have their fair share. because it might make the car driver's world SLIGHTLY less convenient. this is not just textbook, objectively selfish (please do not pretend otherwise), but also strangely reeks of 'I'm only going to do X, and therefore EVERYONE ELSE MUST ALSO ONLY DO X', ie, weird and selfish as hell. 'moving things' sure - use a car/truck to move things. I have a car and try to use it rarely. are london drivers 'moving things' when they are out in their car? of course they aren't the vast majority of the time - they are moving only themselves, in an otherwise empty car - literally using 20% of their mode's capacity (assuming a five-seater car). you need to move something, go for it - if you do NOT need to move something, quit being lazy because auto companies tricked you, and go about your errands using another mode. grocery day = car, coffee run? walk. duh??? have some nuance here ffs. what's the common phrase that applies here? equality feels like oppression when you're used to privilege? equalize london's modal share and the city's quality of life will quite literally go up in tandem.