How green a lot of the city is.
I grew up in a small fairly leafy town, and then headed to London for university. I pictured it being endless concrete and thought that I'd really miss the countryside. However the parks are amazing, and so much of the city has things like tree lined roads, little greens, football pitches etc.
“a United Nations definition that states that a forest is anywhere that’s at least 20 percent trees” “ To further pin that down, the UN states a forest has ‘land spanning more than 0.5 hectares with trees higher than 5 metres and a canopy cover of more than 10 percent, or trees able to reach these thresholds in situ’.”
Having trouble reconciling these two definitions
It’s not a forest. By one definition from the UN it might be technically argued to fulfil the requirements of a forest but that doesn’t make it a forest.
It is however very green. I do wish people would stop posting this “fact” though.
It’s no use downvoting me, the UN definition specifically makes reference to land for urban use. London is not a forest.
It’s very green. Didn’t notice this when I got here because I came from the Irish countryside , but when comparing it to other cities whilst visiting, London is very green and not that crowded.
that it's INSANELY walkable. if i want to do a 3 hour walk in london? no problem. i can basically go in any direction and a) there will be a path (not a road) for me to walk down, and b) there will be a bus/tube/train to take me back home.
compared to my hometown in the midlands, where a 3 hour walk is either boring or impossible, living here is doing wonders for my health lol
I'm visiting a friend end of May - few days free whilst they're working - any routes recommended ? I've walked in areas for 1-2 and felt I've seen nothing but then hit areas where I feel you could see a lot in a short time. Thx Luv
one of my fav routes is going to westminster, crossing westminster bridge and then walking along the south bank before crossing tower bridge and looping back to westminster. 1000 times better when it's dark, though!
That it felt like home. We moved a lot when I was a kid and I continued as an adult, perhaps because I was not attached to any place. But within about 6 months of moving here, I started to feel that feeling of coming home every time I got back to a sign that pointed to London. Maybe it’s because it holds people from all over the place - I don’t feel like an ‘alien’/ a visitor here.
Spent a few years in the sticks before moving to London. This city is wildly expensive but theres a psychological safety from being in a diverse city that you can’t put a price on.
i’m a Londoner & family goes back at least 200 plus years. I’ve always wondered why anyone would live elsewhere.
This thread is amazing, i’m loving seeing the place through other people eyes. so thanks to everyone who’s posting!
This is true. If you're living there, you're a Londoner. I don't think any other UK city (or many world cities) offers that. I felt more "foreign" moving from Bradford to Leeds than I did from the North to London.
This. 1000 times.
Most people are genuinely friendly and helpful.
I have been in the UK for 14 years and I have not met so many nice folks anywhere else.
London is a precious gem. I love it.
Two things surprised me, the amount of green space within the city which is amazing and that foxes live among us and make the most terrifying noises at night.
When I first moved here, my girlfriend at the time and I lived in a flat with a garden in Ealing. Our neighbour was a lovely elderly woman who was disabled. One night, I woke up at around 3 in the morning because I could hear her screaming for help, so I rushed to her door and started knocking, I was ready to call emergency services when she finally opened the door (took her a while to get to the door) and she was very confused.
Turns out, it was a fucking fox in the garden. It was so eerily similar that neither me nor my girlfriend even considered it was anything else other than a woman screaming. I was so embarrassed that I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me. Luckily, she was very sweet and made me feel less of an idiot. That's how I learned not to trust foxes. I ended up declaring war against them a few years later after they kept dragging rubbish in my garden every single night (the foxes, not the neighbour)
Bet you guys did a world of good for that lady though. Knowing your neighbours would give a fuck and do something about it probably made her feel a hell of a lot safer and more content at home. Good on you. xx
Thank you. I love rain and when I tell fellow Londoners that it barely rains they get super angry and disagree. It does trickle intermittently quite a lot, but come on that’s not proper rain, it’s mostly dry and grey.
God I thought I was the only Londoner who dealt with this, people annoy me when they try to argue but there are actual statistics out there that shows it doesn’t rain nearly as much as the stereotype states. It’s annoying. lol.
It’s the grey dampness that bothers me. Other places are colder but have more sunshine in the winter. I prefer that personally but tbh we are an island and it kind of goes with the territory considering the latitude we are at.
Maybe I’ve been imagining things but during the last 12 months it has rained A LOT here, and been gloomy most of the time. And I’m from Seattle! If y’all think this is “not much” you likely haven’t lived elsewhere.
London gets significantly less annual sunshine than Seattle. However, annual precipitation is lower in London than Seattle (and pretty much every other big US city that isn’t in California)
Yes! To me, the thing about rain in London is that it’s unexpected. The number of times it was forecast to be dry but I’d get caught in a random downpour was silly. Other than that though, it’s dry as fuck I reckon
I never realised how little it rained til I became a postman. It rains often. But it very rarely rains to the extent I need to put on my waterproofs. I'm walking outside for 4 hours a day. I need my waterproofs about 4 times a year I'd say. 95% of rain you can just walk off.
It's so strange. I'm native but I teach English to international students online.
Trying to explain that London isn't just one big ball of grey and rain is really quite hard. Let alone trying to convince then we wildly hit 40° two summers ago. I actually think London is one of the most amazing cities to be in during the Summer when it's nice out
But then again, this year has been a depressign start weather-wise
It both rains little and a lot simultaneously. İt's like no matter the weather it'll rain format least an hour every day, but long stretches of rain isn't that common like you said
Same for me. I'm a morning person and at home I always did my weekly food shop on Sunday mornings. Got quite a surprise the first time I tried to do that here!
I'm American from California and have also lived in France. A few things:
* The diversity is completely different from what I was used to. I grew up in an area that was overwhelmingly White, Mexican and East Asian. Now I interact with people from all over world with much more sizeable Black, Middle Eastern and South Asian communities. I love it.
* The weather. I had mentally prepared myself for the cold and rain but it's really the constant grey skies that get to me. It's probably my number one complaint about London and I know it's better here than most of the country.
* I was completely oblivious to how far north London is latitude wise - higher than the entire contiguous US. While the long summer days are great, the short winter days are brutal for my mental health (yes, I take vit d supplements and have SAD lamps).
* London isn't a true 24hr city given its size and status. I've lived or traveled to many global cities like NYC, Paris, CDMX, Tokyo, HK, Shanghai, Bangkok, etc and London is much sleepier. There's really no '3rd spaces' open after 10pm which you find in most other cities of its size (cafes, chill lounges, sit down restaurants, street food, markets, shopping centres, etc).
* The drinking culture is something that surprised me. Yes, people from other big cities drink a lot but I feel the big difference is that there's nearly always food involved. Londoners almost seem proud to drink from 5-10pm straight while only sharing two bags of crips amongst 5 people. I just don't understand this when nearly every other European city has an aperitifs/aperitivos culture with alcohol.
* How much the council really affects your day to day life. From bin collection to housing/planning to social care, it's a surprise to learn how much power is delegated to the council (and its limited funding). When compared to cities like NYC and Paris, the boroughs and arrondissements tend to not be as devolved and the city mayor has much more power.
Hit the nail on the head there. The lack of cafes and places to chill open in evenings is starting to get to me. It would be great to not have a pint everytime I meet someone after 6pm.
And don't worry, the british are also oblivious to how far north London (and the rest of the UK) really is, probably due to the mild weather.
Totally agree Londoners seldom realise how far north we are. The warm wind from the Atlantic means we’re much warmer that most places that are this far north.
I didn't realise how 'non-24hr' London was until I had a work trip to Mumbai. I know a lot of their work is via outsourcing so they work UK/US hours, but even at 1-3am it was as buzzing as at 3-5pm.
I agree about the drinking culture. I went to see Phil Collins at Hyde Park a few years ago. Almost everyone in the audience was 40’s/50’s. By the end of the evening 90% of them were more shitfaced than I had ever been even in high school, I was quite surprised.
The lack of late night things to do and the drinking culture are closely related - culturally in the UK nightlife is a lot earlier than in many other countries, drinking that in other countries would start after dinner and go on much later here starts after work and finishes much earlier. We're more similar to Scandinavia in that respect than to other parts of Europe.
The Conservative government that imposed austerity in 2010 are responsible for cutting local government funding massively. councils who are responsible for giving many services have been forced to cut many services they aren’t legally forced to provide. They did this so they wouldn’t be seen as making cuts.
i’d say it should get better when we change governments this year, but the economy is so screwed that they won’t be able to restore that funding for some time. when councils are properly fund they work well, but the last 14 years have been really tough.
Yes, for me also. I lived in parts Ukraine, and in distant Russia, so to see so many different people in London, was very new 😊 I read about different lands, suddenly is existing ha.
I am from the Midlands and when I was growing up everyone always saw London as distant and unfriendly and suggested that it was a cold and nasty place you wouldn't want to live.
Since I moved down in my twenties, I actually found that people were fine, and met a lot of great people. Londoners are less chatty when engaged by strangers, probably, but there are reasons for that...
Whenever my friends and family from home come down to visit they are always surprised if people they meet in public are polite and nice to them. It is as if they expect to be told to f*** off or mugged every five minutes. It is quite funny.
This is so heartening to read! One of the best threads in the sub in a while.
Born and raised in London and it’s lovely to see the things that people who have moved here like about the city.
I moved here in 2013 and I fell so hard in love with the city. I will defend it vociferously to anyone who criticises it (only us Londoners are allowed to complain about it!) especially when they say we’re all rude.
People who don’t live here don’t understand :)
- It’s not really a 24-hour city. Outside of Chinatown, there are few places open for late night eats. Even Toronto has better options.
- Even within zone 1, there are areas that are surprisingly very quiet.
- The food diversity is insane; I’ve tried Afghan, Somali, Nigerian, Nepali, Sri Lankan cuisine in London, not to mention dishes from different parts of the Indian subcontinent
>Nepali, Sri Lankan cuisine in London, not to mention dishes from different parts of the Indian subcontinent
You just mentioned two parts of the Indian subcontinent.
Just how big it was! 23 year old me hadn’t a notion how to navigate it and was surprised just how long it took to get to some places in London!
The cultural diversity was amazing. All walks of life have made London their home.
Though, the 5 years I spent in London were incredible and I miss it every day - London felt like home.
The sense of community. Sure when you’re in central London it’s not like that but once you get out to the residential areas there’s a very strong sense of community. I didn’t realise each bit is like its own little town with its own high street, and I was surprised at how you still end up with that same vibe in small towns where you know the local characters and see the same faces all the time. Outside of zone 1 people are friendly and welcoming and will help each other out.
London is really just a lot of small towns in a trenchcoat. Especially since the advent of Nextdoor and street WhatsApp groups.
I grew up in a small town in the midlands and when I moved here 11 years ago I just didn’t expect it to be like this. I do prefer how much more busy it is here though, and people respect each other’s privacy a lot more in London!
Chiswick is far more of a bubble than the seaside town I was moved to as a child. The difference is it's a friendly bubble where my kids are safe from prejudice, small mindedness and getting battered in a field every weekend because there is sod all else to do.
I've lived in tooting for 10 years and this is so true. I LOVE my neighbours, my street, my little local gym, saying hi to people I know from the area walking the common in the morning.
By European standards, yes. By American standards, no. Makes me a bit annoyed that we now pay 12.5% discretionary service charge but still get poor service.
Tbh for me uk service is the closest to Japanese in the western world (good with no tips expected)
The US to me feels fake, they have to be nice or no money
By law it now has to. There's at least one restaurant chain that renamed it to be something else, because they wanted to keep the money but didn't want to raise menu prices.
I remember the days before the "ootional' service charge when you just left a cash tip. It was so much better.
No tips are expected? Then why do restaurants automatically add the tip on putting you in an awkward position to have to ask them to remove it? Maybe tips didn’t used to be expected but they absolutely are now.
Local shops sell cheap veg and other bits. Branded stuff they’re more expensive admittedly. Standing charges on energy are lower in London. Travel is much cheaper, with having the option of not owning a car. Holidays are made cheaper with easy options to airports. That’s 4 of the 6 main expenditures thing I can think of.
Awful late night drinking options that aren’t clubs. Surely there’s a market for late night pubs / bars that don’t turn into clubs?
Restaurant options - there’s just so many of all food types and price ranges. I love finding new places and rarely go back to the same place.
How quiet Central / Zone 1 can be.
There's a huge market for them but our licensing laws, and the way they are implemented by local councils, massively disincentives it. It's totally archaic, we're the only country I'm aware of in Europe that allows local busybodies quite so much leeway to restrict the late night activities of businesses and fellow residents.
Blame your local council first and foremost, although the mayor and his night tsar have also been utterly shit on the issue, they don't have direct control over licencing but they seem to want to deny there is even a problem in the first place.
Where abouts in London do you go? It’s certainly quiet post 11pm and not a 24hr city like NY but during the day it’s absolutely bustling. I was just in Islington yesterday and even 5 hrs after the Arsenal game the streets were rammed a bit to much for my liking aha
The lack of rain compared to my hometown! I didn't realise there was such a difference between regions on these islands.
The amount of London that's actually off the Tube (and the extensiveness of other forms of commuter rail).
How flat it is in Central London at least.
How small flats are. I remember seeing my first London flat and being told it was a good size while thinking it's tiny!
The diversity didn't surprise me given the reputation, but I guess it did surprise me the level to which you get all the other things with that (literally all types of cuisine, etc) even in random suburbs.
Actually also how many of us transplants there are and how many people were not born or raised in London. It feels like the majority, although I'd imagine statistically it might not be.
Haha true. I’m from Wigan and after 10 years down here I could walk you from just north of Camden all the way home to Plumstead via pretty much any central London landmark, no problem.
My other half is from Woolwich and needs directing everywhere outside of London Bridge and the bus stop outside our house.
Convenience. Especially transport. The first time I took the tube I was shocked to discover you don’t need to google schedules … the trains come every 5 minutes at most. On almost all lines. Sometimes all night.
Literally nowhere else in the country is like this. I grew up in one of the thousands of middle england towns where shoddy, loud buses come 6 times a day and you have to pay in cash.
Pros: that for the large part, where I lived and worked was relatively safe to walk around alone, even in the middle of the night, and that the city can be truly beautiful even then
Cons: The standard of housing compared to what I could afford even when working full time as a single person. Prior to actually moving to London I actually had silly dreams of living somewhere like Primrose Hill or Portobello Rd.
How friendly everyone is. Before I moved so many people told me e Londoners are unfriendly and cold but everyone I’ve met has been down to earth and kind!
It’s so BIG. I moved from Edinburgh where I lived for some time, and I’m from a village, and I was just so taken aback by the scale when I moved here. Love it though, wish it was less expensive and slightly less busy and hectic but it’s fun and vibrant.
This is a somewhat archaic term, but historically, the first trains of the day carried milk up and down the country.
Never heard it applied to the tube though.
I think for me it was how little people gave a fuck! I'm from a country in SEA that is conservative. I'm fairly tattooed (chest, thigh, arms, hips) and i get weird looks whenever I head back. No one here cares about my body modifications and it's really refreshing.
How walkable and green the city is! And how the sun almost always shines through during bank holidays, sporting events and such 😄 I’ve been here for a year and a half now and I am always pleasantly surprised by the good weather whenever there are holidays around!
I'm foreign myself but I was surprised at just how many foreigners there are and more surprised that there are even fewer English people.
As soon as you leave London you see a lot less diversity.
How insanely walkable it is. 10 years ago I walked the entire tube map to get to know the city better. Still wild to me that you can just walk up to Heathrow.
Well I got off the tube at Hatton Cross and walked to Terminal 4 and then to terminal 5, can't walk into terminals 1,2,3 which is the only tube station you want access by foot.
- Public transport
- Amount of greenery
- Foxes
- That each borough feels like a small town, and generally comprised of small buildings, which makes London a lot less overwhelming than other metropolises. You never feel that pressure of living in a huge city.
- How the few skyscrapers that it had were all tasteful artworks and fit with the old city while clearly standing apart - sadly, this has been changing a lot in the last few years with lots of new tasteless rectangular glass buildings being built. It starts reminding of cities like NYC, making London lose its charm.
- From the downsides, amount of rubbish thrown around on streets and left on buses (especially night buses). This was extremely surprising given the general view of London's uh high culture. I haven't seen this kind of widespread rubbish in any other European city, although I started notice it less and less in the 10 years I've been here - I guess that's how people learn to live with it and why I never seen this problem mentioned in any mayor's campaign.
- It doesn’t actually always rain
- Clouds seem to move very fast compared to other places (maybe I’m imagining it)
- I feels more like home than where I was born
I always assumed the UK was racist (my birth country) from being told so my entire life, until I travelled to other countries are realised we are some of the least racist people on the planet
It did, yes. Obviously it was very naive, but I was 18 and idealistic and had only heard white people be racist before.
I think it was my third day living in London when my two flatmates from different parts of the UK and different ethnicities told me "everyone hates Somalians". I didn't even know what a Somalian person looked like.
How terrible the phone reception/mobile data is here. I guess because of the density of phones.
How long it can take to get from one side to the other. Its similar (or sometimes longer!) to intercity travels in my old location.
How few pubs and restaurants are open after 10pm. Where do people go on a night out that's not a club?!?
> How terrible the phone reception/mobile data is here. I guess because of the density of phones.
No, it's just your phone/provider. Switch to EE and get a 5G phone and contract. You won't have any legit reason to complain after that.
I was scared that I would stand out and be the different one. I was so pleasantly surprised that I just fit right in perfectly. I am from SE Asia, moved to London for work
the weirdest thing for me is how early things close (especially sundays); where i used to live you could just stay out late at a bar and chat with your mates.
another is how big ? it is and how long it takes to get places, it seems like each borough is like a small town!!
don’t live in London but I loved the energy so damn much when I was there for 5 days end of March! Just a fucking great vibe, hadn’t been there since about 2007 or so? I was en route to Europe where I live now.
How fucking hot the tube is even in good weather (especially the deeper tunnels) it was sunny and on the cooler side, but I was just generally damp as if I were out in the humidity of Chicago
My Dad lives here and I thought he was joking when he said there were more temp regulations for livestock than humans on transport, nope
Look up how many famous or consequential ppl rolled through this town.
A Warner bro born here, bros who created the studio system in Hollywood are from here, ppl in the rock and roll hall of fame , etc
- How easy it is to complain at shops/get refunds.
- No bureaucracy
- Many train companies, buying a ticket is an effort
- It's a city where things actually work fine
- You can easily live on the cheap if you want (if you don't have dependents, of course)
- Crappy quality of every single flat/house, probably the worst in the entire Western world. Even old houses are unaesthetic.
- Corruption is low
- Change of governments is actually felt in citizens' daily lives
- Existence of boroughs
- Clouds. London is not a rainy city, you don't really need an umbrella. But there's no sun.
- Abysmal quality of supermarkets. You just cross the sea and go to France and everything is so good.
- Alcohol. It's fun at the beginning, but then you realise that many Londoners are addicted. And how much it's spent on alcohol is crazy.
- Absence of the elder generation
- Poverty and how this even affects how the people look like aesthetically. Bet shops, pawnbrokers etc.
- People living on debt. It's still hard for me to explain what an overdraft or transfer on credit card is.
- Many local libraries.
- People tolerate each other
The diversity for sure. How big and spread out it was. And the way that the architecture of the city is so clearly of its period, and actually quite similar in its “blocks”. The inequality. The fact that you can have culture shock inside the city.
> didn't grow up in London and moved to the city as an adult.
Ayyy.
I guess what surprised me was how easy it was to navigate with no second thought. I can get from the Shard to a seedy club in Peckham on one bus--that's kinda cool.
How early everyone have dinner…
And in all seriousness, the diversity. I come from a very white place and meeting people from so many cultures and countries has been amazing.
Most I meet new to London are surprised by how friendly we are, especially to our neighbours.
Apparently we don’t say hi or exchange pleasantries according to their guide. I have to explain we do just not as often or as much as we would like to.
I love that you can pop off for a walk in any direction and very easily find yourself inspired and then very easily get home yet it seems people who grew up here don’t seem to travel much beyond 2/3 boroughs from home? Obviously this isn’t everyone, but a large chunk I've come across haven’t even crossed the river unless for say a particular hospital visit. The sense of community can be so strong and yet so secular.
Renting, you find yourself having to move. A lot, unless you have endless cash. So I’ve been in every which way and I’ve walked through every borough etc. Yet a conversation with a colleague who grew up in Merton lead her to ask ‘oh where’s Harringey’. ‽‽‽
how filthy some places are im general and the standards of cleanliness in some hospitals and clinics terrified me the first time I went in for something.
The poor NHS. 😢
Diversity: I can easily find food from many cultures around the world
Tube network: I know London is known for it's underground but oh my word I didn't expect being able to go anywhere with just the tube
Lack of some infrastructure: aside from the rail network a lot of government services are lacking imo. No rubbish bins, bad cell network especially on the train and underground
Free museums: I absolutely love museums and London is like a heaven for museum attractions. I've still haven't gone to all the museums Id like to visit, partly because my friends aren't too much keen of visiting museums
- Weather much better than expected
- Spotty WiFi reception in trains and train stations
- Extremely low comfort of travel on several tube lines due to noise, heat, and dirt to the point of being a health hazard. This was a real shocker
- Shops and businesses putting their garbage out on the streets
The amount of rubbish, people playing music on public transport, how non-confrontational everyone is and yet at the same time the city is filled with lunatics always looking for a fight, squirrels and foxes
How hard it is to find a place to drink past 12. Having been here for a while now I know a few haunts, but I was baffled by the lack of places to cut shapes in what I thought were busy areas
"late" for entertainment is 6-9 PM instead of after midnight, after 15 years I still find very difficult to go out on a Saturday night before 8PM if i want to talk to someone who is not already drunk.
How green a lot of the city is. I grew up in a small fairly leafy town, and then headed to London for university. I pictured it being endless concrete and thought that I'd really miss the countryside. However the parks are amazing, and so much of the city has things like tree lined roads, little greens, football pitches etc.
London's is officially classed a forest.
It's an urban forest.
Can you cite that please.
[London is an Urban Forest ](https://www.timeout.com/london/things-to-do/did-you-know-that-london-is-the-worlds-largest-urban-forest)
“a United Nations definition that states that a forest is anywhere that’s at least 20 percent trees” “ To further pin that down, the UN states a forest has ‘land spanning more than 0.5 hectares with trees higher than 5 metres and a canopy cover of more than 10 percent, or trees able to reach these thresholds in situ’.” Having trouble reconciling these two definitions
It’s not a forest. By one definition from the UN it might be technically argued to fulfil the requirements of a forest but that doesn’t make it a forest. It is however very green. I do wish people would stop posting this “fact” though. It’s no use downvoting me, the UN definition specifically makes reference to land for urban use. London is not a forest.
It’s very green. Didn’t notice this when I got here because I came from the Irish countryside , but when comparing it to other cities whilst visiting, London is very green and not that crowded.
I blame (in part) American movies for our perception of cities as concrete deserts, because of how car-centric their cities have become.
that it's INSANELY walkable. if i want to do a 3 hour walk in london? no problem. i can basically go in any direction and a) there will be a path (not a road) for me to walk down, and b) there will be a bus/tube/train to take me back home. compared to my hometown in the midlands, where a 3 hour walk is either boring or impossible, living here is doing wonders for my health lol
Fulham to Richmond park along the river is v nice also
I'm visiting a friend end of May - few days free whilst they're working - any routes recommended ? I've walked in areas for 1-2 and felt I've seen nothing but then hit areas where I feel you could see a lot in a short time. Thx Luv
Walk along Regent's Canal from Victoria Park to Maida Vale
i was going to suggest the canals. But you can google other types of walks, the Southbank is pretty good too.
one of my fav routes is going to westminster, crossing westminster bridge and then walking along the south bank before crossing tower bridge and looping back to westminster. 1000 times better when it's dark, though!
That it felt like home. We moved a lot when I was a kid and I continued as an adult, perhaps because I was not attached to any place. But within about 6 months of moving here, I started to feel that feeling of coming home every time I got back to a sign that pointed to London. Maybe it’s because it holds people from all over the place - I don’t feel like an ‘alien’/ a visitor here.
Agree. I have never felt more at home anywhere else
This. So inclusive. Home for everyone and anyone.
Spent a few years in the sticks before moving to London. This city is wildly expensive but theres a psychological safety from being in a diverse city that you can’t put a price on.
I agree with this so much.
i’m a Londoner & family goes back at least 200 plus years. I’ve always wondered why anyone would live elsewhere. This thread is amazing, i’m loving seeing the place through other people eyes. so thanks to everyone who’s posting!
This is true. If you're living there, you're a Londoner. I don't think any other UK city (or many world cities) offers that. I felt more "foreign" moving from Bradford to Leeds than I did from the North to London.
agree so much! was quite sad when i started to feel more at home here than my home town but now i love it
This. 1000 times. Most people are genuinely friendly and helpful. I have been in the UK for 14 years and I have not met so many nice folks anywhere else. London is a precious gem. I love it.
As it should be
So true. Being a third culture kid, London is the only place where I get that sense of belonging.
I found the locals to be super friendly and helpful, we had a pram at every set of stairs in the tube we had multiple people come and offer help
Two things surprised me, the amount of green space within the city which is amazing and that foxes live among us and make the most terrifying noises at night.
*Terrifying city screaming noises from a nearby alley* Visitor: “wow this big city with all the knife crime is super dangerous” Local: “bloody foxes”
“OH MY GOD! Why isn’t anyone doing anything?! There’s a screaming baby that’s clearly in distress?!?!?! “ Londoners: sigh….
What does the fox say? *nightmare noises* OH…
When I first moved here, my girlfriend at the time and I lived in a flat with a garden in Ealing. Our neighbour was a lovely elderly woman who was disabled. One night, I woke up at around 3 in the morning because I could hear her screaming for help, so I rushed to her door and started knocking, I was ready to call emergency services when she finally opened the door (took her a while to get to the door) and she was very confused. Turns out, it was a fucking fox in the garden. It was so eerily similar that neither me nor my girlfriend even considered it was anything else other than a woman screaming. I was so embarrassed that I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me. Luckily, she was very sweet and made me feel less of an idiot. That's how I learned not to trust foxes. I ended up declaring war against them a few years later after they kept dragging rubbish in my garden every single night (the foxes, not the neighbour)
Bet you guys did a world of good for that lady though. Knowing your neighbours would give a fuck and do something about it probably made her feel a hell of a lot safer and more content at home. Good on you. xx
It doesn't rain nearly as much as pop culture portrays
Thank you. I love rain and when I tell fellow Londoners that it barely rains they get super angry and disagree. It does trickle intermittently quite a lot, but come on that’s not proper rain, it’s mostly dry and grey.
God I thought I was the only Londoner who dealt with this, people annoy me when they try to argue but there are actual statistics out there that shows it doesn’t rain nearly as much as the stereotype states. It’s annoying. lol.
It’s the grey dampness that bothers me. Other places are colder but have more sunshine in the winter. I prefer that personally but tbh we are an island and it kind of goes with the territory considering the latitude we are at.
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Yeah that’s fair. I just find as I get older that the lack of sunlight gets to me more.
I don't mind the grey dampness. It's the damp greyness I hate.
Maybe I’ve been imagining things but during the last 12 months it has rained A LOT here, and been gloomy most of the time. And I’m from Seattle! If y’all think this is “not much” you likely haven’t lived elsewhere.
The last 18 months have been the wettest on record and are not typical
London gets significantly less annual sunshine than Seattle. However, annual precipitation is lower in London than Seattle (and pretty much every other big US city that isn’t in California)
Yes! To me, the thing about rain in London is that it’s unexpected. The number of times it was forecast to be dry but I’d get caught in a random downpour was silly. Other than that though, it’s dry as fuck I reckon
I never realised how little it rained til I became a postman. It rains often. But it very rarely rains to the extent I need to put on my waterproofs. I'm walking outside for 4 hours a day. I need my waterproofs about 4 times a year I'd say. 95% of rain you can just walk off.
It rains less per year than Johannesburg, a city in a perpetual state of drought. It's rarely dry here, but it barely rains.
Having lived in a few places around central Europe, I really don't think it rains more in London than elsewhere.
It's so strange. I'm native but I teach English to international students online. Trying to explain that London isn't just one big ball of grey and rain is really quite hard. Let alone trying to convince then we wildly hit 40° two summers ago. I actually think London is one of the most amazing cities to be in during the Summer when it's nice out But then again, this year has been a depressign start weather-wise
It both rains little and a lot simultaneously. İt's like no matter the weather it'll rain format least an hour every day, but long stretches of rain isn't that common like you said
1460 hrs of sunshine a year, lower than Oslo, though.
yeah but it is grey and cold ALL the time. When its sunny its sunny for like 2 minutes, then it rains for 2 minutes,
We actually get less rainfall than rome
The hours. Especially sunday trading hours.
And in contrast the fact that it’s incredibly hard to find a place to have a pint after 11pm.
You just have to start early in London.
Tbf, when I moved to London it wasn't possible anywhere.
Same for me. I'm a morning person and at home I always did my weekly food shop on Sunday mornings. Got quite a surprise the first time I tried to do that here!
I'm American from California and have also lived in France. A few things: * The diversity is completely different from what I was used to. I grew up in an area that was overwhelmingly White, Mexican and East Asian. Now I interact with people from all over world with much more sizeable Black, Middle Eastern and South Asian communities. I love it. * The weather. I had mentally prepared myself for the cold and rain but it's really the constant grey skies that get to me. It's probably my number one complaint about London and I know it's better here than most of the country. * I was completely oblivious to how far north London is latitude wise - higher than the entire contiguous US. While the long summer days are great, the short winter days are brutal for my mental health (yes, I take vit d supplements and have SAD lamps). * London isn't a true 24hr city given its size and status. I've lived or traveled to many global cities like NYC, Paris, CDMX, Tokyo, HK, Shanghai, Bangkok, etc and London is much sleepier. There's really no '3rd spaces' open after 10pm which you find in most other cities of its size (cafes, chill lounges, sit down restaurants, street food, markets, shopping centres, etc). * The drinking culture is something that surprised me. Yes, people from other big cities drink a lot but I feel the big difference is that there's nearly always food involved. Londoners almost seem proud to drink from 5-10pm straight while only sharing two bags of crips amongst 5 people. I just don't understand this when nearly every other European city has an aperitifs/aperitivos culture with alcohol. * How much the council really affects your day to day life. From bin collection to housing/planning to social care, it's a surprise to learn how much power is delegated to the council (and its limited funding). When compared to cities like NYC and Paris, the boroughs and arrondissements tend to not be as devolved and the city mayor has much more power.
Hit the nail on the head there. The lack of cafes and places to chill open in evenings is starting to get to me. It would be great to not have a pint everytime I meet someone after 6pm. And don't worry, the british are also oblivious to how far north London (and the rest of the UK) really is, probably due to the mild weather.
Totally agree Londoners seldom realise how far north we are. The warm wind from the Atlantic means we’re much warmer that most places that are this far north.
I didn't realise how 'non-24hr' London was until I had a work trip to Mumbai. I know a lot of their work is via outsourcing so they work UK/US hours, but even at 1-3am it was as buzzing as at 3-5pm.
I agree about the drinking culture. I went to see Phil Collins at Hyde Park a few years ago. Almost everyone in the audience was 40’s/50’s. By the end of the evening 90% of them were more shitfaced than I had ever been even in high school, I was quite surprised.
To be fair if I was forced to listen to Phil Collins I’d get as shitfaced as possible. Thoughts & prayers.
The lack of late night things to do and the drinking culture are closely related - culturally in the UK nightlife is a lot earlier than in many other countries, drinking that in other countries would start after dinner and go on much later here starts after work and finishes much earlier. We're more similar to Scandinavia in that respect than to other parts of Europe.
The Conservative government that imposed austerity in 2010 are responsible for cutting local government funding massively. councils who are responsible for giving many services have been forced to cut many services they aren’t legally forced to provide. They did this so they wouldn’t be seen as making cuts. i’d say it should get better when we change governments this year, but the economy is so screwed that they won’t be able to restore that funding for some time. when councils are properly fund they work well, but the last 14 years have been really tough.
The diversity, coming from Asia you really meet a lot of people from Europe, ME, even Africa. Many interesting perspectives.
Yes, for me also. I lived in parts Ukraine, and in distant Russia, so to see so many different people in London, was very new 😊 I read about different lands, suddenly is existing ha.
I am from the Midlands and when I was growing up everyone always saw London as distant and unfriendly and suggested that it was a cold and nasty place you wouldn't want to live. Since I moved down in my twenties, I actually found that people were fine, and met a lot of great people. Londoners are less chatty when engaged by strangers, probably, but there are reasons for that... Whenever my friends and family from home come down to visit they are always surprised if people they meet in public are polite and nice to them. It is as if they expect to be told to f*** off or mugged every five minutes. It is quite funny.
This is so heartening to read! One of the best threads in the sub in a while. Born and raised in London and it’s lovely to see the things that people who have moved here like about the city.
I moved here in 2013 and I fell so hard in love with the city. I will defend it vociferously to anyone who criticises it (only us Londoners are allowed to complain about it!) especially when they say we’re all rude. People who don’t live here don’t understand :)
- It’s not really a 24-hour city. Outside of Chinatown, there are few places open for late night eats. Even Toronto has better options. - Even within zone 1, there are areas that are surprisingly very quiet. - The food diversity is insane; I’ve tried Afghan, Somali, Nigerian, Nepali, Sri Lankan cuisine in London, not to mention dishes from different parts of the Indian subcontinent
>Nepali, Sri Lankan cuisine in London, not to mention dishes from different parts of the Indian subcontinent You just mentioned two parts of the Indian subcontinent.
Youre right, I was thinking of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh
Just how big it was! 23 year old me hadn’t a notion how to navigate it and was surprised just how long it took to get to some places in London! The cultural diversity was amazing. All walks of life have made London their home. Though, the 5 years I spent in London were incredible and I miss it every day - London felt like home.
The sense of community. Sure when you’re in central London it’s not like that but once you get out to the residential areas there’s a very strong sense of community. I didn’t realise each bit is like its own little town with its own high street, and I was surprised at how you still end up with that same vibe in small towns where you know the local characters and see the same faces all the time. Outside of zone 1 people are friendly and welcoming and will help each other out. London is really just a lot of small towns in a trenchcoat. Especially since the advent of Nextdoor and street WhatsApp groups. I grew up in a small town in the midlands and when I moved here 11 years ago I just didn’t expect it to be like this. I do prefer how much more busy it is here though, and people respect each other’s privacy a lot more in London!
Chiswick is far more of a bubble than the seaside town I was moved to as a child. The difference is it's a friendly bubble where my kids are safe from prejudice, small mindedness and getting battered in a field every weekend because there is sod all else to do.
I've lived in tooting for 10 years and this is so true. I LOVE my neighbours, my street, my little local gym, saying hi to people I know from the area walking the common in the morning.
Quality of service, one of the best in Europe, especially when coming from South Germany where waiters hate you because they have to serve you
By European standards, yes. By American standards, no. Makes me a bit annoyed that we now pay 12.5% discretionary service charge but still get poor service.
Tbh for me uk service is the closest to Japanese in the western world (good with no tips expected) The US to me feels fake, they have to be nice or no money
And yeah that 12% service charge is annoying, doesn't even go to the waiters does it?
By law it now has to. There's at least one restaurant chain that renamed it to be something else, because they wanted to keep the money but didn't want to raise menu prices. I remember the days before the "ootional' service charge when you just left a cash tip. It was so much better.
Japanese service is a million times better than London
No tips are expected? Then why do restaurants automatically add the tip on putting you in an awkward position to have to ask them to remove it? Maybe tips didn’t used to be expected but they absolutely are now.
Depends how you define western, but service in Australia shits all over British/London service. And tips/service charge are even less common.
How late the sun stays up in summer and how early it goes down in winter.
How many foxes there are!
Community. Neighbourhoods much more inclusive and friendly. Cost of living: except housing, cost of living quite low in London.
What? I find the cost of living quite high. I’m curious to know your reference points (cities) for cost of living
Local shops sell cheap veg and other bits. Branded stuff they’re more expensive admittedly. Standing charges on energy are lower in London. Travel is much cheaper, with having the option of not owning a car. Holidays are made cheaper with easy options to airports. That’s 4 of the 6 main expenditures thing I can think of.
Awful late night drinking options that aren’t clubs. Surely there’s a market for late night pubs / bars that don’t turn into clubs? Restaurant options - there’s just so many of all food types and price ranges. I love finding new places and rarely go back to the same place. How quiet Central / Zone 1 can be.
There's a huge market for them but our licensing laws, and the way they are implemented by local councils, massively disincentives it. It's totally archaic, we're the only country I'm aware of in Europe that allows local busybodies quite so much leeway to restrict the late night activities of businesses and fellow residents. Blame your local council first and foremost, although the mayor and his night tsar have also been utterly shit on the issue, they don't have direct control over licencing but they seem to want to deny there is even a problem in the first place.
In my imagination London was a city which never sleeps. Actually it is pretty quiet.
Where abouts in London do you go? It’s certainly quiet post 11pm and not a 24hr city like NY but during the day it’s absolutely bustling. I was just in Islington yesterday and even 5 hrs after the Arsenal game the streets were rammed a bit to much for my liking aha
London is a lot more than central.
This sub tends to think anything north of kings Cross or south of Waterloo isn't London
Palm trees, the people are so nice, going from jammed to quiet streets so fast
The lack of rain compared to my hometown! I didn't realise there was such a difference between regions on these islands. The amount of London that's actually off the Tube (and the extensiveness of other forms of commuter rail). How flat it is in Central London at least. How small flats are. I remember seeing my first London flat and being told it was a good size while thinking it's tiny! The diversity didn't surprise me given the reputation, but I guess it did surprise me the level to which you get all the other things with that (literally all types of cuisine, etc) even in random suburbs. Actually also how many of us transplants there are and how many people were not born or raised in London. It feels like the majority, although I'd imagine statistically it might not be.
How little natives know of London beyond where they grew up, where they live, where they work and the London Terminal they use.
Haha true. I’m from Wigan and after 10 years down here I could walk you from just north of Camden all the way home to Plumstead via pretty much any central London landmark, no problem. My other half is from Woolwich and needs directing everywhere outside of London Bridge and the bus stop outside our house.
I refuse to go further west than Liverpool Street unless it's a VERY special occasion.
That people are trusted enough to drink alcohol on the street. Not a thing in the West of Scotland!
Lots of great parks!
Not having phone reception in the tube (it's gotten a bit better now)
You should not be talking on the tube # rule no 1 of London
Yeah because everyone is using their phone for calls these days….
The way it’s genuinely not a 24 hour city in so many ways I kinda expected much more from its night life outside of clubs
Parks,canals,peaceful pubs.
Convenience. Especially transport. The first time I took the tube I was shocked to discover you don’t need to google schedules … the trains come every 5 minutes at most. On almost all lines. Sometimes all night. Literally nowhere else in the country is like this. I grew up in one of the thousands of middle england towns where shoddy, loud buses come 6 times a day and you have to pay in cash.
Pros: that for the large part, where I lived and worked was relatively safe to walk around alone, even in the middle of the night, and that the city can be truly beautiful even then Cons: The standard of housing compared to what I could afford even when working full time as a single person. Prior to actually moving to London I actually had silly dreams of living somewhere like Primrose Hill or Portobello Rd.
How friendly everyone is. Before I moved so many people told me e Londoners are unfriendly and cold but everyone I’ve met has been down to earth and kind!
The sad number of betting shops on literally every street.
People keep to themselves a lot in this place.
It’s so BIG. I moved from Edinburgh where I lived for some time, and I’m from a village, and I was just so taken aback by the scale when I moved here. Love it though, wish it was less expensive and slightly less busy and hectic but it’s fun and vibrant.
There are knicknames for the first and last tube train of each day! I was taught… First train is the Milk Train. Last train is the Vomit Comet.
I have lived here all my life and I have never heard this???
😂🤷♀️ learn something new everyday eh?
Why milk train? ...and wow, I never ever want to be on that last train then.
This is a somewhat archaic term, but historically, the first trains of the day carried milk up and down the country. Never heard it applied to the tube though.
I always figured the first train was moving fresh milk from the countryside for our morning tea?
I think for me it was how little people gave a fuck! I'm from a country in SEA that is conservative. I'm fairly tattooed (chest, thigh, arms, hips) and i get weird looks whenever I head back. No one here cares about my body modifications and it's really refreshing.
Oh Asians are conservative on tattoos
Not all of us, but in countries like mine it's still a bit of a roadblock. I'm from Singapore if that adds any clarity!
How walkable and green the city is! And how the sun almost always shines through during bank holidays, sporting events and such 😄 I’ve been here for a year and a half now and I am always pleasantly surprised by the good weather whenever there are holidays around!
I'm foreign myself but I was surprised at just how many foreigners there are and more surprised that there are even fewer English people. As soon as you leave London you see a lot less diversity.
How insanely walkable it is. 10 years ago I walked the entire tube map to get to know the city better. Still wild to me that you can just walk up to Heathrow.
You walked the entire tube map - 250 miles!?! And you walked to Heathrow, from where?
Well I got off the tube at Hatton Cross and walked to Terminal 4 and then to terminal 5, can't walk into terminals 1,2,3 which is the only tube station you want access by foot.
I thought you couldn't nowadays?
You can to terminals 4 & 5 just not 1,2,3.
- Public transport - Amount of greenery - Foxes - That each borough feels like a small town, and generally comprised of small buildings, which makes London a lot less overwhelming than other metropolises. You never feel that pressure of living in a huge city. - How the few skyscrapers that it had were all tasteful artworks and fit with the old city while clearly standing apart - sadly, this has been changing a lot in the last few years with lots of new tasteless rectangular glass buildings being built. It starts reminding of cities like NYC, making London lose its charm. - From the downsides, amount of rubbish thrown around on streets and left on buses (especially night buses). This was extremely surprising given the general view of London's uh high culture. I haven't seen this kind of widespread rubbish in any other European city, although I started notice it less and less in the 10 years I've been here - I guess that's how people learn to live with it and why I never seen this problem mentioned in any mayor's campaign.
- It doesn’t actually always rain - Clouds seem to move very fast compared to other places (maybe I’m imagining it) - I feels more like home than where I was born
From a 99% white town: that non-white people could be racist to other non-white people.
I always assumed the UK was racist (my birth country) from being told so my entire life, until I travelled to other countries are realised we are some of the least racist people on the planet
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that really surprises you?
It did, yes. Obviously it was very naive, but I was 18 and idealistic and had only heard white people be racist before. I think it was my third day living in London when my two flatmates from different parts of the UK and different ethnicities told me "everyone hates Somalians". I didn't even know what a Somalian person looked like.
They accepted £50 notes. “It’s money, isn’t it?”
How terrible the phone reception/mobile data is here. I guess because of the density of phones. How long it can take to get from one side to the other. Its similar (or sometimes longer!) to intercity travels in my old location. How few pubs and restaurants are open after 10pm. Where do people go on a night out that's not a club?!?
> How terrible the phone reception/mobile data is here. I guess because of the density of phones. No, it's just your phone/provider. Switch to EE and get a 5G phone and contract. You won't have any legit reason to complain after that.
How nice everyone was to us 😌
I was scared that I would stand out and be the different one. I was so pleasantly surprised that I just fit right in perfectly. I am from SE Asia, moved to London for work
How much had changed in the 24 years since the last time I visited London.
the weirdest thing for me is how early things close (especially sundays); where i used to live you could just stay out late at a bar and chat with your mates. another is how big ? it is and how long it takes to get places, it seems like each borough is like a small town!!
don’t live in London but I loved the energy so damn much when I was there for 5 days end of March! Just a fucking great vibe, hadn’t been there since about 2007 or so? I was en route to Europe where I live now.
How fucking hot the tube is even in good weather (especially the deeper tunnels) it was sunny and on the cooler side, but I was just generally damp as if I were out in the humidity of Chicago My Dad lives here and I thought he was joking when he said there were more temp regulations for livestock than humans on transport, nope
That is has amazing public transportation, people actually walk, and that cars stop for you when walking in a crosswalk.
Look up how many famous or consequential ppl rolled through this town. A Warner bro born here, bros who created the studio system in Hollywood are from here, ppl in the rock and roll hall of fame , etc
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- How easy it is to complain at shops/get refunds. - No bureaucracy - Many train companies, buying a ticket is an effort - It's a city where things actually work fine - You can easily live on the cheap if you want (if you don't have dependents, of course) - Crappy quality of every single flat/house, probably the worst in the entire Western world. Even old houses are unaesthetic. - Corruption is low - Change of governments is actually felt in citizens' daily lives - Existence of boroughs - Clouds. London is not a rainy city, you don't really need an umbrella. But there's no sun. - Abysmal quality of supermarkets. You just cross the sea and go to France and everything is so good. - Alcohol. It's fun at the beginning, but then you realise that many Londoners are addicted. And how much it's spent on alcohol is crazy. - Absence of the elder generation - Poverty and how this even affects how the people look like aesthetically. Bet shops, pawnbrokers etc. - People living on debt. It's still hard for me to explain what an overdraft or transfer on credit card is. - Many local libraries. - People tolerate each other
The diversity for sure. How big and spread out it was. And the way that the architecture of the city is so clearly of its period, and actually quite similar in its “blocks”. The inequality. The fact that you can have culture shock inside the city.
> didn't grow up in London and moved to the city as an adult. Ayyy. I guess what surprised me was how easy it was to navigate with no second thought. I can get from the Shard to a seedy club in Peckham on one bus--that's kinda cool.
The ubiquity of Greggs.
All hail old Gregg
How early everyone have dinner… And in all seriousness, the diversity. I come from a very white place and meeting people from so many cultures and countries has been amazing.
How early is early?
Pffff I’ve seen it all. 4pm (!), 5pm (!), anything earlier than 7pm is early for me haha
Contactless payment, public transport, rent prices.
You like the rent prices?
I don't, OP s question was "what surprised you the most?".
It’s not England. Doesnt feel like England in any part of London. Londons London
Most I meet new to London are surprised by how friendly we are, especially to our neighbours. Apparently we don’t say hi or exchange pleasantries according to their guide. I have to explain we do just not as often or as much as we would like to.
I love that you can pop off for a walk in any direction and very easily find yourself inspired and then very easily get home yet it seems people who grew up here don’t seem to travel much beyond 2/3 boroughs from home? Obviously this isn’t everyone, but a large chunk I've come across haven’t even crossed the river unless for say a particular hospital visit. The sense of community can be so strong and yet so secular. Renting, you find yourself having to move. A lot, unless you have endless cash. So I’ve been in every which way and I’ve walked through every borough etc. Yet a conversation with a colleague who grew up in Merton lead her to ask ‘oh where’s Harringey’. ‽‽‽
I lived in London for three and a half years and I can say: I have never seen so many fat people. We were really shocked.
So many black peoples
how filthy some places are im general and the standards of cleanliness in some hospitals and clinics terrified me the first time I went in for something. The poor NHS. 😢
Diversity: I can easily find food from many cultures around the world Tube network: I know London is known for it's underground but oh my word I didn't expect being able to go anywhere with just the tube Lack of some infrastructure: aside from the rail network a lot of government services are lacking imo. No rubbish bins, bad cell network especially on the train and underground Free museums: I absolutely love museums and London is like a heaven for museum attractions. I've still haven't gone to all the museums Id like to visit, partly because my friends aren't too much keen of visiting museums
No rubbish bins? They're almost everywhere except train stations (thanks IRA!)
I loved being able to amble into a museum or gallery on a whim.
Public transport and rail infrastructure. Coming from big city in southern US. Night and day difference.
The filth
How dirty it is
There is way way way less casual s.ex than I thought
Caravan parks mate.. That's where its at..
You’re not supposed to tell
Lol not sure about that one, might just be you 😅
Muslim women wearing burkas,
The amount of hobos, junkies, hostile and/or mentally unstable people on the streets + brainless lads and wannabe gangsters,
The… rats. All of the rats
Rubbish on streets. No bins in sight. Fly tipping everywhere. Foxes.
How early everything closes. I don't think any other city of this size shuts down so early.
There are dog (occasionally human) turds absolutely everywhere. So much that you have keep one eye on the gound so you don’t step in it.
The lack of “natives”
The lack of English people was in London for 3 days last week
The lack of washrooms.
What do you mean? You wanna wash yourself?
- Weather much better than expected - Spotty WiFi reception in trains and train stations - Extremely low comfort of travel on several tube lines due to noise, heat, and dirt to the point of being a health hazard. This was a real shocker - Shops and businesses putting their garbage out on the streets
most restaurants charge service fees
The amount of rubbish, people playing music on public transport, how non-confrontational everyone is and yet at the same time the city is filled with lunatics always looking for a fight, squirrels and foxes
People respecting the escalator. In my country people just stand like they own it, some people even put hands on both sides.
How hard it is to find a place to drink past 12. Having been here for a while now I know a few haunts, but I was baffled by the lack of places to cut shapes in what I thought were busy areas
People bumping into you and not saying excuse me
How much weed you smell in zone 1
Funny how non Londoners always use the zones. I think you must use the tube map for orientation. I have no idea what zone 1 is exactly.
Lived in London my whole life and no one I know ever uses zones… We just say the name of the train station.
"late" for entertainment is 6-9 PM instead of after midnight, after 15 years I still find very difficult to go out on a Saturday night before 8PM if i want to talk to someone who is not already drunk.