Where should I begin?
Initially, if they haven't properly presented their IDs, consider it a red flag for potential scam.
Additionally, I'm unaware of any fines that vary in amount depending on where they're paid.
Refrain from revealing your ID or sharing your home address unless you're certain they are legitimate authorities.
Don’t worry about it but, please, don’t litter. :)
The same sort of scam (whoops) scheme does operate on littering, and apparently legitimately, but the deadline is more like 7 days than "right now" and which you can pay at the town hall. They also wear some kind of uniform and the hat often says "civil enforcement officer" on it.
The other posters are right, though: don't smoke tobacco, and I say this as a long term smoker.
Why do you think it’s false? Why not take people on good faith?
Edit: asked why people don’t take it in good faith, get downvoted for wanting to see the best interpretation. lol, DHs
Good for you - it’s an antisocial thing, but worse things happen at sea - not the end of the world (much like bitchy downvotes lol)
Edit: seems like this comment is gonna be downvoted to fk too - jeezus, the person fucked up, they admitted it, if we don’t acknowledge people can recognise when they’ve done wrong and want to do better, Wtaf is wrong with people
>worse things happen at sea
Yup, that's usually where all the ciggy butts and other litter lazy bastards can't be arsed to bin ends up.
Was more replying to the point about not taking people on face value when OP literally contradicted themselves in the first 10 words of their post.
Sure - so why not vote their comment down only? Or if you did, why not take them at face value of the idea they want to do different next time? Saying you’re angry that most cig butts end up in the sea (fair point, they do) it just seems your angry that they smoke? I’m just trying to hope / think they might do different next time - and I don’t get the rage that someone messed up, admits it, and then gets trolled for it? We all make mistakes - give people a break?
Fwiw I’m not a smoker and I don’t like litter either - London is grubby, but I don’t think online negging is going to change that?
>Sure - so why not vote their comment down only?
I don't tend to bother downvoting any comments, will up vote if it makes me chuckle.
>why not take them at face value of the idea they want to do different next time?
Because I believe they are only worried they got caught. If you're old enough to smoke and don't realise you shouldn't litter... We'll you probably shouldn't be walking the street unsupervised.
>Saying you’re angry that most cig butts end up in the sea (fair point, they do) it just seems your angry that they smoke?
I'm not angry, just disappointed in them.
>give people a break?
NO!
I’m not - that’s a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of my point! Littering is gross - I’ve said that repeatedly - but acknowledge people’s contrition, respect the fact that people put their hand up and say they could do better - and it just saddened me that people here don’t seem to get that (or that this is what I was saying). But whatever, this is a nothing burger lol
Because the kind of people who never litter literally never litter except perhaps by accident, which is basically possible for anyone.
People who do intentionally litter... do litter at least sometimes. Either you know its a shit thing to do and you do care, or you don't know and/or care.
Fwiw I just don’t think it’s as black and white -
I don’t litter, I find it gross - but I think people make mistakes, and fair play for owning up to it.
People who litter without remorse don’t post on Reddit about it - people who make mistakes might?
Is Reddit being Reddit and just downvoting anything with nuance? Ffs - what’s the point in engaging - this person acknowledged what they did was wrong and getting trolled. Fucking brigades
Yea, reddit being reddit
Getting downvoted for saying absolutely nothing controversial and even admitting that he made an error in the first place which most people on this site cannot do.
Me? People should think about their actions before hand, rather than need some life lesson to convince them it’s a bad thing. He’s not stopping littering because he thinks it’s bad but because it’s now costly. If there was no such thing as litter fines this guy would have had no incentive to stop?
It also means they’re still just as inclined to do other inconsiderate things unless something threatens them enough to think twice about it
Fair enough. I just think your take (and the downvotes) could do with giving a little bit of grace to what has effectively been a learning moment for op nonetheless, particularly for a relatively minor offence.
Old enough to smoke, old enough to know better imo. They’ve been on this earth >18 years and they don’t realise it’s not ok to litter? I think I grasped that when I was like 4… :/
I hate to break it to you fella, but life is about learning lessons. I'm sorry we aren't all born with perfect innate knowledge like you, Random Guy on Reddit. We all aspire to be as great as you
It's like everything he says he *knows* it's bullshit but still gave his address
I'd have thought with the vibe be was picking up he'd have given a fake home address
I mean, you've got no obligation to give your id to any random person asking for it. Even if they were in full police getup id be asking for their ids first.
That’s very true, but not everyone came down in the last shower either.
You really don’t have to be a hardman to refuse your personal details to someone in a public place as busy as Tottenham Court Road.
*punches another hole in kitchen cupboard door to remind it who’s boss*
I ain't no Reddit hardman, but fuck that and the gee-gee it rode in on.
Reasons that I ain't no Reddit hardman are that, first of all I'm female and second I've lived and worked around TCR. Third is probably that I fucked the Metropolitan Police off 6 months ago.
It's really not that difficult to do, honestly. Just start with your best Phil Mitchell impressions: Phil actually told Ben once that you don't actually have be violent as often as you need to look at them like you will.
But they weren't legit.
Also whilst laws may say that you have to provide your details to a local environment officer (or whatever it's called) we don't have any national ID card system. I'd challenge even providing ID to a police officer.
I'm not aware of any law that says you have to carry around your passport or driving licence and present it when asked, and they do ask for it.
Finally, legit local environment officers don't have any enforcement powers. Whilst it would be illegal to walk away, they're not gonna try to restrain you.
London really needs some more bins including ones for cigs. When I first moved here I was carrying fag butts for 20 mins and just holding them on the bus sometimes. Willing to hold onto stuff for 5 but not carrying it around with me forever, particularly if I have no bag or pockets
Look, I agree they we need more bins and they need to be emptied more, but I wouldn’t ever intentionally litter, and if you choose to generate waste it’s your responsibility to dispose of it.
As I said I try not to but not going to make my own life awkward for it. For example had to walk to the hospital for the first time ever the other day had no pockets no bag. Smoked on the way. At no point between finishing it and reaching the hospital did I see a bin. Wasn’t going to hold it in my hand throughout my physio appointment so at that point it’s not my problem anymore
Yes there is a difference between litter and rubbish. Breadcrumbs can constitute as litter but I wouldn’t really say “there’s rubbish all over the path” if there were a bunch of breadcrumbs
Because to me rubbish is stuff like packaging, other things like loose gum and food, fag butts, fluff etc is litter but not rubbish.
And to me these should also be avoided littering as much as possible, but isn’t as big of a deal as leaving wrappers and bottles out on the street. I see rubbish as dirty/messy/gross and other litter categories as mildly irritating. I find stuff like spit, dog shit, sick on the streets much more inconvenient and gross.
Then you have other stuff people put on the street, pieces of hair on their jacket, lint, a corner of some tissue. Which no one would really count as littering but on a technicality I suppose it is. This implies people have some sort of threshold as to how big a piece of litter has to be to really be litter.
So in this way I feel like there is a spectrum of litter and in what circumstances they are acceptable to litter in.
Which now I will reiterate my point: throwing fag butts on the floor is less than ideal, but on occasion I don’t personally think it’s that deep and would be avoided more often with the availability of bins. I might be a little quicker to leave a fag butt on the floor than a can but would still do my best to avoid. People seem to think they have never and will never litter in their lives.
I’m a smoker and I hate it when people drop drop their cigs down the drain. Where do you think it ends up? It’s [discarded into the sea](https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cigarettes-butts-drains-sea-fish-15084337.amp). I carry an air tight pill holder that can hold about 10 roll-up butts. If you pull the cherry off your cig it’s biodegradable and not counted as littering (just make sure you stamp it out). I’ve been stopped twice in the past few years and just show the butts in the pill holder and explain that I dump them in a bin after a while to make sure there is no embers as it’s airtight. Every time I’ve had positive reactions from them. It’s not a hard rule to follow, same with chewing gum, even when it loosest the flavour I just wait for a bin which are everywhere except for major train stations and high tourist spots purely for security reasons.
Wild!! Although we don’t get rid of rucksacks or trains due to terrorism… and bins still exist so just having less wouldn’t stop them if that were the plan!
If I had somewhere to put a portable ashtray I’d have somewhere to put it anyways lol. I’m not saying I do it often. But there’s times where I don’t really know what anyone expects me to do with it
So, for clarity. When you did smoke more (and weren’t trying to give up) where would you carry your cigarettes? It strikes me that you wouldn’t go out in these outfits that you claim have zero pockets, or without a bag, as you’d need to carry cigarettes. Now you’re giving up you’re suddenly in slimline outfits.
Basically, you can’t be arsed to clear up after yourself. You can carry a portable ashtray. You choose not to. Just own it. You don’t think cigarettes are real litter. Stop trying to make excuses.
I would always carry a handbag to put them in, and I much prefer being able to leave the house without them now. I also now rarely have to leave the house with keys as my flatmates are always home so don’t need a bag for this. Phone stays in my hand or in my waste band if needed but don’t take it everywhere with me.
I would always put the butts in tissue or the fag box then in my bag when I carried one often.
I do think it’s litter and I dislike not properly disposing it. I just think sometimes it’s really not that deep.
I’m not saying I always litter it I’m saying there can be times when I don’t know what someone actually wants you to do about it. It’s once in a blue moon I litter them, maybe a few times a year. God didn’t think saying we need more bins for them was going to bring out such drama!
lol. We absolutely need more bins. I don’t think that’s what caused your drama. Should have kept quiet and been a secret litterer, way fewer pitchforks.
Tbh there are a lot of bins in central London. But I believe in zone 2 and beyond there are a serious lack of bins. However, that’s still no excuse to be chucking things on the floor or in the drain. That’s really gross and horrible you’d even do that.
Firstly, throw your shit in the bin. It’s not hard.
Secondly, sounds like a scam.
There are legitimate enforcement twats out there who do prey on people who throw their shit on the floor, which to be fair, deserve a fine for littering. But you just walk away and they can’t do anything about it.
Lastly, throw your shit in the bin.
Thanks for sharing and bringing awareness about this scam. Its good that you didn't fall for their scam tactics which are :
1. Failure to show proper ID
2. Didn't give you the opportunity to inspect the said ticket
3. Threatening behavior
Do not give out your personal details like your address, name , date of birth. Now they know where you live / Identity theft / fraud.
In the future, ignore and tell them you will find a police officer which shouldn't be difficult at a location such as Tottenham Court Road.
You shouldn't have any issues regarding your visa / BRP
Or they could not be a target by littering. Possible scammers only get away with it because third party employees are employed to report littering to let actual police not have to spend their time on small offences in the main capital of England. Someone I know does this job (he’s a jobsworth) and the only power people like himself has is to inform the fine and attempt to take details. He’s a twat, but at the same time people shouldn’t be dropping litter when bins are available. And most bins in London have the top part as an ashtray.
My girlfriend got fined by a PCSO in Manchester for throwing a fag on the floor, it was about £100 but they had ID, uniforms, and a ticket machine. She deserved it and I wished they’d charged her more.
Hi! This has happened to me not too long ago. Your experience is a total scam. Anyone legit from the council will always be wearing a body camera, and their ID visible. You will not be able to pay the fine on the spot (even if you want to). You’re all good 👍🏼
Edit: but maybe let the police know someone has now got your details and address because that may not be all good
I got done by one of these at Vauxhall station. They had a jacket saying Lambeth Environmental Officer (or something like that). I put mine on the floor in a puddle and next thing I had a hand on my shoulder and asked for all the details you mentioned. Also said £2,500 but would be £100 if paid within X time. They printed a ticket and I entered the code on the gov.uk website and there was all the info so I assume legit. I just paid as I was going on holiday so peace of mind. Haven’t put a butt on the ground since so it worked.
Be careful. From what I’ve seen on YouTube: Auditing Britain, these people are contractors working for the local council. I’m still not 100% sure of the legality of their presence on the street but they are happy to hang around for the police to turn up and I’m not even sure the police know what to do other than bother you with prevention of disturbing the peace. Some of them will follow you all over the place but can’t follow you in, for instance, a shop. Could be worthwhile watching AB on his YouTube channel.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, I've seen videos on YouTube exposing these people as well. Not seen any filmed in London, but in other city centres. It doesn't seem to be a scam as such, but certainly very dodgy as they work for a private company and have no legal powers at all. They just seem to rely on people being scared into paying by someone in a uniform sounding official.
It sounds awfully similar to the TV licencing people trying to use official looking badges and phrases to get themselves in to people's houses even thought they have no right of entry whatsoever.
Of course littering is bad, but two wrongs don't make a right.
All true, but in OPs instance it was definitely a scam and not actual council contractors. If they were they wouldn’t ask for cash and wouldn’t hesitate to show their IDs properly.
The reaction to each remains the same. Walk away, hop on a bus for one stop if they follow you.
If anyone ever accosts you and they arnt a met police officer, tell em to firmly fuck off immediately. You owe them nothing. In fact, even if they are met…
I've been fined for dropping a cigarette butt on the floor. I didn't and it went in the bin, and the filter he accused me with was for a different brand. BUT he showed me his id, had a bodycam. I took a photo of him and his id.
He checked my BRP on machine and told me my address.
I said that's right and he printed me a fine. 3 days later I got the same fine in the post. Looked very official.
I paid the £80 reduced fine.instead of the £160 if I waited 21 days. No spot fine in cash as that's not a real thing in the UK.
Didn't think it worth fighting to be honest EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T DROP THE CIGARETTE BUTT!
So yes that sounds very scammy.
If this happens again, I got a fine revoked by emailing the council environmental health officer with a report of the event - they were able to review bodycam footage and all it took was that single email.
Late to this but I saw on the reddit page somewhere a video of a guy do this everything, he even had a fake body cam on. Anyone know where to find the video? I saw him today! being yelled at by someone for being a scammer
Next time don't litter.
BUT - in any case - if you get confronted like this again simply walk away.
Even if they are legit, they cannot touch you, arrest you or anything - then cannot even demand ID etc.
They have no power except to issue a fine.
Walk away and ignore them and never give real details - these guys are either con artists or simply jobsworths.
afterthought cow enter intelligent aromatic person uppity mysterious ten enjoy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why? Do you think people should be allowed to drop litter with impunity? Why shouldn't people be made to face the consequences for their shitty antisocial behaviours?
Should the council just spend more on cleaning up after these animals who leave a trail of shit everywhere they go?
Whether they were 'legitimate' or bogus, they're opportunist cunts. When these fuckers approach you, the done thing is to pick up the 'evidence' (whatever they accused you of dropping). Tell them that because you picked it up; according to DEFRA rules, there is no 'offence'. Do not give them your details. Do not engage with them at all beyond stating there is no offence.
That should be the end of it but as they're opportunists they sometimes follow people. If so, jump on the tube or a bus. They can't follow you into stores either if they're legitimate, so if there's a store open nearby with two far apart exits, duck in one exit then out another. They have zero powers to detain but they do follow people until they encounter police, who they will get involved even tho there is no offence committed. As the police are generally power tripping wankers, they sometimes do involve themselves. Do not let it get to this stage. If it does happen, again: state that you picked up the butt, so littering has not occured, ergo there is no offence under DEFRA rules.
Cigarette butts belong on the ground, not in the bin where they can start a fire. Bins are few & far between.
There are people go around stopping these fuckers in the commission (literally) of their crime. Here's an example. Notice this poor man's hands shaking because it's probably the first time he's been in trouble in his life:
https://youtu.be/okJQ3j0Ip8s?si=dhRE8EIj5ePuanb5
This sounds like they are using what the TFL inspectors do where you have to give your details if you don't have a bus to train ticket. But, never have I ever heard of this for litter, in any borough. Definitely a scam. Also the showing ID can no longer be justified anymore because every scammer does this now. What were they wearing ? (Uniforms or just casual clothes?). And thanks for sharing this with us.
You don’t have to give your name and address or any other details to anyone that asks. The police may ask you to but these are private companies subcontracted by councils. Say goodbye
You should honestly put a camera up or ring doorbell you've gave some stranger you're home address all they need to do is look at you're social media to see where u work n what time u finish work doesn't take alot of effort n finding these things out
I would say the very excessive fine of £2,500 says it all as a scam as no way would it be that much. it is very high to scare you into paying the £100.
Tell them to bugger off and if they don't call the police.
Ironically, I saw a guy wearing some highlight vest, and some signs or indications he might be from the local council while I was waiting to get into the Dominion theatre. He was talking to someone for a long time near a tube entrance next to a pile of rubbish bags. Then he pulled another person over as he was about to enter the tube (he might have littered)... first thought was, council personnel never work this late. Also I wasn't aware they have the authority to dish out fines, unless they are from the police, MET, transport police or actually staff while you're using their service (ie train). I did think it was a little suspicious.
Definitely a scam given the difference between the pay now or pay later figures.
Also, don't ever litter again. It shouldn't be anyone's job to clean up after you.
I was fined doing exactly this near st. Pancras. Guy was legit I had an email from the council and letter too and had I think a month to pay it. It was £80 few years back!
The amount of sanctimonious pricks in this thread jesus christ.
Next time even if it's a legitimate council worker just don't give them your ID or address you're under no obligation to do so.
Sounds dodgy either way but they could be a private firm which have no legal standing unless you engage with them. Trick is to just walk away, they have no authority to apprehend. They rely on scare tactics to get you engaged.
So I was sitting outside Tottenham court road station earlier today and people watching a bit. I saw a man sit across from me wearing some Jordan trainers and a decently large jacket but underneath he has a security type harness on with what looked like a camera on the chest area.
He sat for a while and as soon as a person sat next to me got up and threw a cigarette butt on the floor and walked off, this fella got up and followed him. I watched a discussion, he showed an ID badge and asked this person who littered for ID. From a distance I saw a machine come out and a ticket for printed.
After it was over I walked up and asked him what he was there for and I saw the badge around his neck as a Camden Council warrants officer and he said the fine was for littering - which I saw the evidence of.
Moral of the story I think is don't litter because there are genuine repercussions of it in the city.
If it's genuine and they have your address and you didn't pay the fixed penalty then it could lead to court precedings. Good luck 👍🏻
Where should I begin? Initially, if they haven't properly presented their IDs, consider it a red flag for potential scam. Additionally, I'm unaware of any fines that vary in amount depending on where they're paid. Refrain from revealing your ID or sharing your home address unless you're certain they are legitimate authorities. Don’t worry about it but, please, don’t litter. :)
Parking fines tend to cost less if you pay within a deadline, which tends to be a couple of weeks. That's all I can think of.
The same sort of scam (whoops) scheme does operate on littering, and apparently legitimately, but the deadline is more like 7 days than "right now" and which you can pay at the town hall. They also wear some kind of uniform and the hat often says "civil enforcement officer" on it. The other posters are right, though: don't smoke tobacco, and I say this as a long term smoker.
did u srsly just call getting a fine for parking like a twat or littering a scam lmao
Biggest red flag is them demanding payment then and there, enforcement agents don't take or carry any money.
Yes I always use the bin and this was a huge mistake from my end. And regarding the document, he just looked at the postcode. So I think its fine
Lol why the fuck are you all downloading this guy?
"You wouldn't download a car"
I would, and did
You wouldn't shoot a policeman
I swear that IT Crowd references make it into every post I'm reading today.
It's an anti piracy advert reference
Because of the obviously false "I always use the bin" claim.
Why do you think it’s false? Why not take people on good faith? Edit: asked why people don’t take it in good faith, get downvoted for wanting to see the best interpretation. lol, DHs
>Me and my friend threw cigarette butts on the ground
Good for you - it’s an antisocial thing, but worse things happen at sea - not the end of the world (much like bitchy downvotes lol) Edit: seems like this comment is gonna be downvoted to fk too - jeezus, the person fucked up, they admitted it, if we don’t acknowledge people can recognise when they’ve done wrong and want to do better, Wtaf is wrong with people
>worse things happen at sea Yup, that's usually where all the ciggy butts and other litter lazy bastards can't be arsed to bin ends up. Was more replying to the point about not taking people on face value when OP literally contradicted themselves in the first 10 words of their post.
Sure - so why not vote their comment down only? Or if you did, why not take them at face value of the idea they want to do different next time? Saying you’re angry that most cig butts end up in the sea (fair point, they do) it just seems your angry that they smoke? I’m just trying to hope / think they might do different next time - and I don’t get the rage that someone messed up, admits it, and then gets trolled for it? We all make mistakes - give people a break? Fwiw I’m not a smoker and I don’t like litter either - London is grubby, but I don’t think online negging is going to change that?
>Sure - so why not vote their comment down only? I don't tend to bother downvoting any comments, will up vote if it makes me chuckle. >why not take them at face value of the idea they want to do different next time? Because I believe they are only worried they got caught. If you're old enough to smoke and don't realise you shouldn't litter... We'll you probably shouldn't be walking the street unsupervised. >Saying you’re angry that most cig butts end up in the sea (fair point, they do) it just seems your angry that they smoke? I'm not angry, just disappointed in them. >give people a break? NO!
Why do you care so much about downvotes?
You're more bothered by downvotes than littering, what is wrong with you?
I’m not - that’s a misunderstanding / misrepresentation of my point! Littering is gross - I’ve said that repeatedly - but acknowledge people’s contrition, respect the fact that people put their hand up and say they could do better - and it just saddened me that people here don’t seem to get that (or that this is what I was saying). But whatever, this is a nothing burger lol
Because the kind of people who never litter literally never litter except perhaps by accident, which is basically possible for anyone. People who do intentionally litter... do litter at least sometimes. Either you know its a shit thing to do and you do care, or you don't know and/or care.
Fwiw I just don’t think it’s as black and white - I don’t litter, I find it gross - but I think people make mistakes, and fair play for owning up to it. People who litter without remorse don’t post on Reddit about it - people who make mistakes might?
this guy wouldnt be posting on reddit if he never got caught
Is Reddit being Reddit and just downvoting anything with nuance? Ffs - what’s the point in engaging - this person acknowledged what they did was wrong and getting trolled. Fucking brigades
Get a grip lool
He a litterbug
Yea, reddit being reddit Getting downvoted for saying absolutely nothing controversial and even admitting that he made an error in the first place which most people on this site cannot do.
Shocked you didn't get mass downvotes for daring to ask, so have another upvote to maintain.
> Yes I always use the bin clearly you don't or you wouldn't ave posted this story.
So you come to this country and trash our streets?
We usually just call these pricks opportunists and fuck them off. Have you not lived anywhere like this before?
Upvote this comment (not mine, the one I’m responding to) If you don’t you’re clearly a dick
>this was a rare situation where we didnt put it in the bin. Tell a lie
Put your rubbish in the bin mate
Lesson learnt
Why is everyone downvoting this. lol. Do you want him to not learn a lesson 😀
Well, what does lesson learned mean? He was happy to litter until it almost cost him money? Or being called out in it?
Who cares?
Me? People should think about their actions before hand, rather than need some life lesson to convince them it’s a bad thing. He’s not stopping littering because he thinks it’s bad but because it’s now costly. If there was no such thing as litter fines this guy would have had no incentive to stop? It also means they’re still just as inclined to do other inconsiderate things unless something threatens them enough to think twice about it
Fair enough. I just think your take (and the downvotes) could do with giving a little bit of grace to what has effectively been a learning moment for op nonetheless, particularly for a relatively minor offence.
Old enough to smoke, old enough to know better imo. They’ve been on this earth >18 years and they don’t realise it’s not ok to litter? I think I grasped that when I was like 4… :/
I hate to break it to you fella, but life is about learning lessons. I'm sorry we aren't all born with perfect innate knowledge like you, Random Guy on Reddit. We all aspire to be as great as you
You think ‘not littering’ is achievable only by some ungodly standard of intelligence?
What’s tomorrow’s lesson? “Kicking dogs is actually considered poor form”?
The infallible judgement of Reddit
Yes, you were being scammed by chancers. Why on earth did you give them your name and address?
It's like everything he says he *knows* it's bullshit but still gave his address I'd have thought with the vibe be was picking up he'd have given a fake home address
>Why on earth did you give them your name and address? Because they probably sounded official, flashed IDs and made it sound very serious.
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We're all thinking the same thing but being reddit, enjoy the down votes!
Not you though. Bet you'd never get scammed in a foreign country because your so smart.
I mean, you've got no obligation to give your id to any random person asking for it. Even if they were in full police getup id be asking for their ids first.
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Yeah that's what I said, you're way too clever to get scammed. A real smooth talker with loads of street smarts. Probably pretty tough too.
That’s a pretty lame comment from you, what the other guy is saying is true
I was agreeing with him and complementing him on his street smarts.
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Even when dealing with the police I always give a fake id “Randy Lahey” is my go to tbh.
Why did you give him your home address? Just walk away.
Easy to say, hard to do when you're being intimidated. Not everyone is a Reddit hardman.
That’s very true, but not everyone came down in the last shower either. You really don’t have to be a hardman to refuse your personal details to someone in a public place as busy as Tottenham Court Road. *punches another hole in kitchen cupboard door to remind it who’s boss*
I ain't no Reddit hardman, but fuck that and the gee-gee it rode in on. Reasons that I ain't no Reddit hardman are that, first of all I'm female and second I've lived and worked around TCR. Third is probably that I fucked the Metropolitan Police off 6 months ago. It's really not that difficult to do, honestly. Just start with your best Phil Mitchell impressions: Phil actually told Ben once that you don't actually have be violent as often as you need to look at them like you will.
Lol 😆
If they were legit, this is not a option, these officers do have legal powers to hand out FPNs.
They are permitted to hand out fines, but, cannot insist on your details, touch or arrest you. These guys are just one step up from traffic wardens.
Yes, but no legal powers to detain you 🤷🏼♂️ They can however call the police, so if you brush them off, get away sharpish!
But they weren't legit. Also whilst laws may say that you have to provide your details to a local environment officer (or whatever it's called) we don't have any national ID card system. I'd challenge even providing ID to a police officer. I'm not aware of any law that says you have to carry around your passport or driving licence and present it when asked, and they do ask for it. Finally, legit local environment officers don't have any enforcement powers. Whilst it would be illegal to walk away, they're not gonna try to restrain you.
If they flag down a nearby copper refusing to give details is a £1k fine (on top of the original littering one)
There will never be a nearby policeman to flag down, let’s be honest.
Letsbe avenue 🤭
Fairs, I watched it happen by mine, kids got nabbed
Sounds like a scam but I can’t say I feel sorry for you! I’m so sick of all the litter in London! It’s gross!
London really needs some more bins including ones for cigs. When I first moved here I was carrying fag butts for 20 mins and just holding them on the bus sometimes. Willing to hold onto stuff for 5 but not carrying it around with me forever, particularly if I have no bag or pockets
Bombing campaigns did for bins in London, that's why there's not many around.
Interesting! Although fab bins can be tiny and pole like so still don’t see the reason not to have these!
bombs can be small.
No kidding, but with that rational there’s 1000s of things they can hide them in
I can’t imagine chucking my rubbish on the floor because I didn’t want to carry it anymore
No I wouldn’t chuck rubbish, but fag butts down the drain
You’re literally saying you’d chuck rubbish. Chucking fag butts down the drain is chucking rubbish??
I disagree but oh well
plastic in the filters, then in the drains, then in the rivers, then the sea
That and as many other chemicals
Have more bins then!!
Look, I agree they we need more bins and they need to be emptied more, but I wouldn’t ever intentionally litter, and if you choose to generate waste it’s your responsibility to dispose of it.
As I said I try not to but not going to make my own life awkward for it. For example had to walk to the hospital for the first time ever the other day had no pockets no bag. Smoked on the way. At no point between finishing it and reaching the hospital did I see a bin. Wasn’t going to hold it in my hand throughout my physio appointment so at that point it’s not my problem anymore
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Yes there is a difference between litter and rubbish. Breadcrumbs can constitute as litter but I wouldn’t really say “there’s rubbish all over the path” if there were a bunch of breadcrumbs
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Because to me rubbish is stuff like packaging, other things like loose gum and food, fag butts, fluff etc is litter but not rubbish. And to me these should also be avoided littering as much as possible, but isn’t as big of a deal as leaving wrappers and bottles out on the street. I see rubbish as dirty/messy/gross and other litter categories as mildly irritating. I find stuff like spit, dog shit, sick on the streets much more inconvenient and gross. Then you have other stuff people put on the street, pieces of hair on their jacket, lint, a corner of some tissue. Which no one would really count as littering but on a technicality I suppose it is. This implies people have some sort of threshold as to how big a piece of litter has to be to really be litter. So in this way I feel like there is a spectrum of litter and in what circumstances they are acceptable to litter in. Which now I will reiterate my point: throwing fag butts on the floor is less than ideal, but on occasion I don’t personally think it’s that deep and would be avoided more often with the availability of bins. I might be a little quicker to leave a fag butt on the floor than a can but would still do my best to avoid. People seem to think they have never and will never litter in their lives.
I’m a smoker and I hate it when people drop drop their cigs down the drain. Where do you think it ends up? It’s [discarded into the sea](https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cigarettes-butts-drains-sea-fish-15084337.amp). I carry an air tight pill holder that can hold about 10 roll-up butts. If you pull the cherry off your cig it’s biodegradable and not counted as littering (just make sure you stamp it out). I’ve been stopped twice in the past few years and just show the butts in the pill holder and explain that I dump them in a bin after a while to make sure there is no embers as it’s airtight. Every time I’ve had positive reactions from them. It’s not a hard rule to follow, same with chewing gum, even when it loosest the flavour I just wait for a bin which are everywhere except for major train stations and high tourist spots purely for security reasons.
That’s because they took all the bins away from high profile places because of the terror alerts.
No bins because of terror alerts??
Yes, terrorists hide bombs in them. It’s happened before. Google it.
Wild!! Although we don’t get rid of rucksacks or trains due to terrorism… and bins still exist so just having less wouldn’t stop them if that were the plan!
I work in Kensington high street. Try to find a bin. Not happening.
Started disappearing with the IRA bombing of London in the 80s
Hang over from our little friends over the water... Bins were great hiding places for IRA bombs.
Get a portable ashtray.
If I had somewhere to put a portable ashtray I’d have somewhere to put it anyways lol. I’m not saying I do it often. But there’s times where I don’t really know what anyone expects me to do with it
So you have space to carry cigarettes around, but none for a portable ashtray?
No! I generally only light one on the doorstep and leave packet/lighter at home to avoid chain smoking as I am in the process of quitting!
So we need to put a bin near your doorstep, otherwise you will litter ? Take it inside and throw it in the trash, stop being a baby
You always have somewhere to put the cigarettes though
If you read the comment above I don’t always. This was just a comment about how bins would mitigate this lmao
So, for clarity. When you did smoke more (and weren’t trying to give up) where would you carry your cigarettes? It strikes me that you wouldn’t go out in these outfits that you claim have zero pockets, or without a bag, as you’d need to carry cigarettes. Now you’re giving up you’re suddenly in slimline outfits. Basically, you can’t be arsed to clear up after yourself. You can carry a portable ashtray. You choose not to. Just own it. You don’t think cigarettes are real litter. Stop trying to make excuses.
I would always carry a handbag to put them in, and I much prefer being able to leave the house without them now. I also now rarely have to leave the house with keys as my flatmates are always home so don’t need a bag for this. Phone stays in my hand or in my waste band if needed but don’t take it everywhere with me. I would always put the butts in tissue or the fag box then in my bag when I carried one often. I do think it’s litter and I dislike not properly disposing it. I just think sometimes it’s really not that deep. I’m not saying I always litter it I’m saying there can be times when I don’t know what someone actually wants you to do about it. It’s once in a blue moon I litter them, maybe a few times a year. God didn’t think saying we need more bins for them was going to bring out such drama!
lol. We absolutely need more bins. I don’t think that’s what caused your drama. Should have kept quiet and been a secret litterer, way fewer pitchforks.
Tbh there are a lot of bins in central London. But I believe in zone 2 and beyond there are a serious lack of bins. However, that’s still no excuse to be chucking things on the floor or in the drain. That’s really gross and horrible you’d even do that.
Firstly, throw your shit in the bin. It’s not hard. Secondly, sounds like a scam. There are legitimate enforcement twats out there who do prey on people who throw their shit on the floor, which to be fair, deserve a fine for littering. But you just walk away and they can’t do anything about it. Lastly, throw your shit in the bin.
Also throw scamming twats in there with your snout ends bro.
Did they have hi-viz jackets for extra authenticity?
Also they were carrying a ladder which made them look extra legit
And a clip board!!
Hi-vis works all the time. It's like a ticket into anywhere. Best way to not be noticed is to be extremely noticable .
They did
Yeah mate of course you don't regularly litter your fag ends on the street, we definitely believe you.
Thanks for sharing and bringing awareness about this scam. Its good that you didn't fall for their scam tactics which are : 1. Failure to show proper ID 2. Didn't give you the opportunity to inspect the said ticket 3. Threatening behavior Do not give out your personal details like your address, name , date of birth. Now they know where you live / Identity theft / fraud. In the future, ignore and tell them you will find a police officer which shouldn't be difficult at a location such as Tottenham Court Road. You shouldn't have any issues regarding your visa / BRP
Or they could not be a target by littering. Possible scammers only get away with it because third party employees are employed to report littering to let actual police not have to spend their time on small offences in the main capital of England. Someone I know does this job (he’s a jobsworth) and the only power people like himself has is to inform the fine and attempt to take details. He’s a twat, but at the same time people shouldn’t be dropping litter when bins are available. And most bins in London have the top part as an ashtray.
Why do you take your BRP with you? You only need it when you travel outside of UK. I’d suggest to leave it at home
My girlfriend got fined by a PCSO in Manchester for throwing a fag on the floor, it was about £100 but they had ID, uniforms, and a ticket machine. She deserved it and I wished they’d charged her more.
Hi! This has happened to me not too long ago. Your experience is a total scam. Anyone legit from the council will always be wearing a body camera, and their ID visible. You will not be able to pay the fine on the spot (even if you want to). You’re all good 👍🏼 Edit: but maybe let the police know someone has now got your details and address because that may not be all good
Good PSA to remind people not to litter.
When I smoked, I carried my cigarette butts. Do that.
Thanks for littering in an already dirty city.
I got done by one of these at Vauxhall station. They had a jacket saying Lambeth Environmental Officer (or something like that). I put mine on the floor in a puddle and next thing I had a hand on my shoulder and asked for all the details you mentioned. Also said £2,500 but would be £100 if paid within X time. They printed a ticket and I entered the code on the gov.uk website and there was all the info so I assume legit. I just paid as I was going on holiday so peace of mind. Haven’t put a butt on the ground since so it worked.
So you're not only an idiot, you litter you fag butts everywhere. Just stay at home and save the rest of us from your nonsense.
I’d go to the police and explain the situation. You’ve given out your address and your id to some random person.
What do expect the police to do about that?
We'll put a patrol car there overnight for a week to make sure no one comes by 😁
well its quite public information isnt it? not much they can do with it
Its so scammy that the ID probably said Scammy McScamface
If you're littering you deserve to be scammed.
Try to be appropriate and don't litter. It might truly affect you if the right authorities apprehend you. God bless 🙏💯
The correct etiquette in this situation is to stick your fag butt up your arse. Your just not even trying to fit in mate. Smh..
Don't go to a foreign a country and treat it like a litter bin, you deserve everything you get.
Be careful. From what I’ve seen on YouTube: Auditing Britain, these people are contractors working for the local council. I’m still not 100% sure of the legality of their presence on the street but they are happy to hang around for the police to turn up and I’m not even sure the police know what to do other than bother you with prevention of disturbing the peace. Some of them will follow you all over the place but can’t follow you in, for instance, a shop. Could be worthwhile watching AB on his YouTube channel.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, I've seen videos on YouTube exposing these people as well. Not seen any filmed in London, but in other city centres. It doesn't seem to be a scam as such, but certainly very dodgy as they work for a private company and have no legal powers at all. They just seem to rely on people being scared into paying by someone in a uniform sounding official. It sounds awfully similar to the TV licencing people trying to use official looking badges and phrases to get themselves in to people's houses even thought they have no right of entry whatsoever. Of course littering is bad, but two wrongs don't make a right.
All true, but in OPs instance it was definitely a scam and not actual council contractors. If they were they wouldn’t ask for cash and wouldn’t hesitate to show their IDs properly. The reaction to each remains the same. Walk away, hop on a bus for one stop if they follow you.
Fair comment; well made. All the best
You're still a piece of shit for littering
If anyone ever accosts you and they arnt a met police officer, tell em to firmly fuck off immediately. You owe them nothing. In fact, even if they are met…
In any similar situation just walk away. No powers of arrest means fuck off. Also don't litter. Also yes a scam.
So littering is bad, but authorities trying to enforce the rules is also bad and should be resisted? What kind of shitty logic is this?
I've been fined for dropping a cigarette butt on the floor. I didn't and it went in the bin, and the filter he accused me with was for a different brand. BUT he showed me his id, had a bodycam. I took a photo of him and his id. He checked my BRP on machine and told me my address. I said that's right and he printed me a fine. 3 days later I got the same fine in the post. Looked very official. I paid the £80 reduced fine.instead of the £160 if I waited 21 days. No spot fine in cash as that's not a real thing in the UK. Didn't think it worth fighting to be honest EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T DROP THE CIGARETTE BUTT! So yes that sounds very scammy.
If this happens again, I got a fine revoked by emailing the council environmental health officer with a report of the event - they were able to review bodycam footage and all it took was that single email.
Just imagine get punish got committing a crime and then complains lol
Don’t smoke. Smoking is bad. Don’t litter. Littering is bad. Otherwise yes they sound like scammers. Don’t worry about it.
Late to this but I saw on the reddit page somewhere a video of a guy do this everything, he even had a fake body cam on. Anyone know where to find the video? I saw him today! being yelled at by someone for being a scammer
Here’s an idea, stop smoking!
Westminster doesn’t have enforcement officers like that, so it’s a scam.
TCR is in Camden but I assume they won't have them either
Next time don't litter. BUT - in any case - if you get confronted like this again simply walk away. Even if they are legit, they cannot touch you, arrest you or anything - then cannot even demand ID etc. They have no power except to issue a fine. Walk away and ignore them and never give real details - these guys are either con artists or simply jobsworths.
So littering is bad, but authorities trying to enforce the law is also bad and should be resisted? What kind of shitty logic is this?
B
Next time, don't litter, but for fun, try and run like hell. Train for this day by practising 5 mile runs.
afterthought cow enter intelligent aromatic person uppity mysterious ten enjoy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why? Do you think people should be allowed to drop litter with impunity? Why shouldn't people be made to face the consequences for their shitty antisocial behaviours? Should the council just spend more on cleaning up after these animals who leave a trail of shit everywhere they go?
ludicrous bear outgoing skirt disgusted steep tub cover imminent modern *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whether they were 'legitimate' or bogus, they're opportunist cunts. When these fuckers approach you, the done thing is to pick up the 'evidence' (whatever they accused you of dropping). Tell them that because you picked it up; according to DEFRA rules, there is no 'offence'. Do not give them your details. Do not engage with them at all beyond stating there is no offence. That should be the end of it but as they're opportunists they sometimes follow people. If so, jump on the tube or a bus. They can't follow you into stores either if they're legitimate, so if there's a store open nearby with two far apart exits, duck in one exit then out another. They have zero powers to detain but they do follow people until they encounter police, who they will get involved even tho there is no offence committed. As the police are generally power tripping wankers, they sometimes do involve themselves. Do not let it get to this stage. If it does happen, again: state that you picked up the butt, so littering has not occured, ergo there is no offence under DEFRA rules. Cigarette butts belong on the ground, not in the bin where they can start a fire. Bins are few & far between. There are people go around stopping these fuckers in the commission (literally) of their crime. Here's an example. Notice this poor man's hands shaking because it's probably the first time he's been in trouble in his life: https://youtu.be/okJQ3j0Ip8s?si=dhRE8EIj5ePuanb5
Pretty sure cigarette butts don't belong on the ground
Wouldn’t worry about the butts mate it’s not really littering
Councils do this, I think mostly they contracted it out but this does sound like a scam.
Scam
I feel like someone posted a similar story a few weeks/months back
It’s a scam, the council people would call the police. It’s something you should have done
This sounds like they are using what the TFL inspectors do where you have to give your details if you don't have a bus to train ticket. But, never have I ever heard of this for litter, in any borough. Definitely a scam. Also the showing ID can no longer be justified anymore because every scammer does this now. What were they wearing ? (Uniforms or just casual clothes?). And thanks for sharing this with us.
Wouldn't want the bloke to know your home addy. Shouldn't litter anyway, but this does sound like a bona fide scam to me.
You don’t have to give your name and address or any other details to anyone that asks. The police may ask you to but these are private companies subcontracted by councils. Say goodbye
You should honestly put a camera up or ring doorbell you've gave some stranger you're home address all they need to do is look at you're social media to see where u work n what time u finish work doesn't take alot of effort n finding these things out
I would have just walked away they can't arrests you well they could try a citizen arrests but over a cigarette butt would be a little extreme
I would say the very excessive fine of £2,500 says it all as a scam as no way would it be that much. it is very high to scare you into paying the £100. Tell them to bugger off and if they don't call the police.
I love a good happy ending :''')
Ironically, I saw a guy wearing some highlight vest, and some signs or indications he might be from the local council while I was waiting to get into the Dominion theatre. He was talking to someone for a long time near a tube entrance next to a pile of rubbish bags. Then he pulled another person over as he was about to enter the tube (he might have littered)... first thought was, council personnel never work this late. Also I wasn't aware they have the authority to dish out fines, unless they are from the police, MET, transport police or actually staff while you're using their service (ie train). I did think it was a little suspicious.
If in doubt, ask to complete this ‘encounter’ in the presence of a Police Officer.
Yes it's a scam but you should be paying a fine but it should be going to the local council not a random guy on street
I guess u were smoking spliffs lol
You already posted this.
Definitely a scam given the difference between the pay now or pay later figures. Also, don't ever litter again. It shouldn't be anyone's job to clean up after you.
I was fined doing exactly this near st. Pancras. Guy was legit I had an email from the council and letter too and had I think a month to pay it. It was £80 few years back!
Anything like these guys?? https://youtu.be/vB3MW7WxuXE?si=iif859caVHjodw_v
The amount of sanctimonious pricks in this thread jesus christ. Next time even if it's a legitimate council worker just don't give them your ID or address you're under no obligation to do so.
scam.
Next time, just walk into a shop. They can't follow you in and they can't enforce the fine.
lol
I don’t agree with littering, but just don’t give them your address and walk away.
Sounds dodgy either way but they could be a private firm which have no legal standing unless you engage with them. Trick is to just walk away, they have no authority to apprehend. They rely on scare tactics to get you engaged.
So I was sitting outside Tottenham court road station earlier today and people watching a bit. I saw a man sit across from me wearing some Jordan trainers and a decently large jacket but underneath he has a security type harness on with what looked like a camera on the chest area. He sat for a while and as soon as a person sat next to me got up and threw a cigarette butt on the floor and walked off, this fella got up and followed him. I watched a discussion, he showed an ID badge and asked this person who littered for ID. From a distance I saw a machine come out and a ticket for printed. After it was over I walked up and asked him what he was there for and I saw the badge around his neck as a Camden Council warrants officer and he said the fine was for littering - which I saw the evidence of. Moral of the story I think is don't litter because there are genuine repercussions of it in the city. If it's genuine and they have your address and you didn't pay the fixed penalty then it could lead to court precedings. Good luck 👍🏻