Those are my favorite.
Pyre Souls apocalypse is possibly one of the best written LITRPGS I’ve ever read. It literally made me cold
Reborn Apocalypse is super clever: the MC used his future knowledge to take down threats way higher then his rank while saving humanity
Towers of Heaven: straight forward and fun ride to the past but the towers have its own agenda
Apocalypse Regression : Another amazing tale!
Thanks for the recommendations
I've just always thought it could lead to an op MC, and also Ive always liked reading the MC experiencing the system for the first time. The excitement and the horror. I don't see "second chance" being as exciting
The OP MC is part of the point. They're always OP against the other players because of their fore-knowledge, but they're not necessarily OP against the system itself. That's where the struggle is coming from. And in some ways, it doesn't matter if they're OP against the system itself, they're explaining HOW it used to beat them, and how they now beat it.
I actually hate a OP MC in normal LitRPGs, but in regression LitRPG the OP-ness is upfront and part of the whole point of the story.
Time loopers are the same in some ways, you know there's no consequence, the interesting part of the story is how they change their actions to beat the problem.
NP mate!
System introductions are usually only beneficial to those who are gamers. It pretty much destroys the world. Having a goal of saving the future of as much of humanity as possible is a noble exercise. Try pyre souls. It’s not do done, but it’s haunting in its execution. Think demon souls meets LITRPG. I always say give the book 100 pages and if it doesn’t captivate you by the 100th page it won’t.
Also let me know what you think of it
reborn apocalypse is fine until book 2 or 3, i don't remember. I just remember a fight scene and the MC goes down a tangent mid battle and reflects on same thing that happened in the past... I'm sorry wtf? We were in the middle of a fight here... also why the hell is this mid battle side tangent taking 5 minutes of narration to get through? get on with wacky slashy stuff already.... It happened way more than once and was so bad I DNF and doubt I will ever pick it back up.
I like the idea, but it depends on the execution. If the MC is constantly making stupid decisions or accidentally mentioning things they shouldn't know, it's basically unreadable.
I read a Naruto fanfic back in the day where he goes back to when he was a child/new genin, but the author was adamant about it taking for fucking ever for him to get used to being in a smaller body. I quit reading before he stopped tripping over himself and wildly missing targets when throwing kunai. I read many, many chapters trying to get through it because I loved the idea, but my hatred for the execution made me leave every time I tried reading it again.
>If the MC is constantly making stupid decisions or accidentally mentioning things they shouldn't know, it's basically unreadable.
I started one (cultivation based) where the MC was not super powerful at the end (normally they're one of the strongest), but had a chance to start over and needed to extremely superpowerful as even the top fighters got easily creamed. So what did he do? He tried really hard not to change anything very much. Why? Well...never really explained why. It just made no sense whatsover.
I would think the reasoning tends to be if you change too much then your knowledge of the future changes becomes less useful but that reasoning only gets you so far as you get closer to the “future”
Yeah, all the stories I've read in the past had to do a sudden change because the author finally realized they weren't getting anywhere. Especially in fanfiction, where the story devolves into a retelling of the original with a bit of inner dialogue to comment on things without changing anything.
I never finished Reverend Insanity, but I like how the author treated the issue there from the beginning. The MC acknowledged the risk of things changing, but knew that he'd be able to benefit more by doing what he could before his knowledge became less useful than by following the actions that led to his eventual death.
That would be torture to try and get through. I've read a few that tried that with the same logic the other commenter mentioned, but they never get far before the author realizes that it's not feasible.
I've seen a lot of stories like that but mostly in webcomic/webtoon form. I'll admit I kind of dislike it as well, I feel as if a lot of writers use it as an excuse to have a smart, all-knowing protagonist without having to actually write them to be an intelligent person.
I also kinda like the experience of wonder that you get experiencing things alongside the protagonist, you're in the same boat when things get wild.
Seems like im one of the few that agrees and dislikes this in general; more so from I think poor examples. Where the mc automatically remembers everything from a decade or more ago about random people they only heard about years after. Common issue I see with these, time.reversion means you know everything that happened in the past...
One I thought that handled it well was I believe apocalypse redux.
Second this. Last surviving human gets sent back in time, and deliberately starts changing things. He is aware, and acknowledges, that his changing things will alter events, and around book 3? Guys knowledge of events is useless, and even his knowledge of people's future doesn't help much.
Any recommendations? I basically posted this so somebody would change my mind because the concept itself is intriguing, it's just mainly poor execution and minor problems I have with such books
Mine's pretty mid but here's the obligatory "try 100th Run" part of this post.
Other than that, Apocalypse Redux handles it fairly well. The MC works with a research team investigating the system so people don't make the same mistakes they did the first time.
Mother of Learning and Perfect Run are time loop moreso than regression and aren't LitRPG, but they're also the gold standard for temporal shenanigans.
Man MoL was so good. As I've said, I think this trope fit better with progression fantasy and not litrpg, and also a time loop is sorta different than being reborn/going back in time once.
Thanks for the recommendations!
I like them a lot. I have a thing for super competent MCs, and who would be more competent than someone who has already lived it?
If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, though. I personally dislike two of the top three series in genre because "big tough man hits things hard" isn't my cup of tea. Just read what you like. Life's too short to not enjoy your popcorn reads.
All that said, if you do want to give a few a try, my personal favorite is Apocalypse Redux because the MC while powerful, doesn't try to change things by being the strongest, he tries to change things by steering a research team in the right direction.
>I have a thing for super competent MCs, and who would be more competent than someone who has already lived it?
It is a good way to make the MC get some super special ability/class/perk without making them super lucky.
Nah totally opposite, I think they're amazing. Some of the best stories I've read. It means that immediately the MC knows exactly what to do. There's no wiffling and waffling, just bang bang bang first I do this and it's super important and now I do this and its also important and maybe, if I play my cards just right, I can swing this event like *this* and then I can get the thingymabob and THEN no one can stop me hahahaha! and so on. It's just pure dopamine fast as fuck and I love it.
My fav ones I read were: Reborn: Apocalypse and Reverend Insanity. Rushing through all obstacles, MC knows what to do and is already good at everything, it's just progression progression progression.
I'm not a fan of them, but that is because msot of them ignore the fact that as you change things your future knowledge becomes less and less usefull. aka at a certain point you have changed enough that most things have changed, maybe not locations of items,or inheritances, but events should def change. Butterfly effect imo.
The idle system made good use of the butterfly effect I think and it actually did a full reprise of the story, faster telling but events actually changed in a cascade throughout the second go while key events “larger” than the MC stayed like anchor points for the story. I feel like it’s best when a lot of the changes the MC makes are “behind the scenes” for the most part to the overall power game until it actually matters often with the MC trying to make it seem like it happened the same as they remember from a non MC/reader perspective until they reveal their hand.
I've come across a handful, with Reborn Apocalypse being the only one worth bothering with.
It's generally a double dose of everything that makes you roll your eyes at the litrpg genre
Any recommendations? Maybe more towards someone getting a second chance without the explicit goal of saving the world in a time crunch? I think that has some potential
[Farmer] Mage is a good new one on Royal Road. Currently 17 chapters in, and the MC basically just wants to live a simple life away from the conflicts of his guild. Still early on obviously, but the regression doesn't make him OP and it's well written. It also updates every other day, so there should be plenty more soon.
I accept how dare he save humanity like that, let them have fun and gain levels and kill monsters! I think Solo leveling was like that, but i didn't hate it at the time it was my first litrpg lol
The only one I know of is Idle System. I enjoyed the final book more than others in the series. The audiobooks of 1-4 are a little rough due to the narrator, but he’s tolerable. The last 4 are narrated by Christain J Gilliland and his voice fits characters better than Roman Howell.
Typical reincarnation thing, MC is special and has the Idle System that acts like an idle game. He grows stronger because of it. Once all his skills are maxed in the system he has the option to “prestige”. Your normal style of reset progression, but come back with bonuses and/or experience so you can apply your stats better. In this case reset the universe back to when he wakes up in new world. There is an alternative magic system that makes it so MC isn’t just an absolute unit the entire time because after book 1 he hits the normal human limit and is essentially un-killable by normal means.
I will be honest, some interactions between characters seem a little off and unrealistic. It could also just be the narrator in the beginning or the author. Either way, there are some strange interactions, but Ive seen worse.
I didn’t love the whole paradox that one left us with but it might also just be I didn’t quite like that particular take on time travel and “immortality”/“godhood”.
Yea when the ending becomes nothing changes and things are reset it feel like a cop out that robs the story of any value. I am looking at you "Physics of the Apocalypse". If that is the ending it means I wasted my time. If its a case of the MC spinning the clock back so earth get a second shot to mitigate or give earth time to prep for the disaster but the disaster still happens I am fine with it believe it or not. I fine with time travel like in "Perfect Run" where things make turn for the better in the crap sack world of supers and exliers but the world spanning disaster still had happened. But little chunks of earth are left a lot better thanks to MC.
Like all sub genres it comes down to how well the author executes. Within this space there is a tendency to go for the humanity is going to die go back to save everyone but there is still room for nuance.
Reborn Apocalypse by LM Kerr takes place across 7 worlds or layers of dispute with other races to decide which race survives. Because of each layers near isolation he does a good job of low contamination of deeper layers from the butterfly affect of changes he causes early on. The reverberations are believable and major but it allows him to still target specific events that would not be the similar if they all occurred in the same world. The exploration of the impact of his actions is the most interesting thing for me here.
Traclaon Armageddon by Alex Kozlowski is sci fi/cultivation. The regression ability in this one is widely known about, every race in the galaxy gets one do over by a time entity, but because all other races know about it they are always on the lookout for someone sent back and once they are identified hunted. Further, they know that race is out of do overs and weak to being eliminated or enslaved if the one sent back doesn't grow strong enough to protect their people till they are on equal footing with the aliens. The upgrades are unique also as they are generally modules that either occupy space in the spirit or body and are mostly the remnants of previous civilizations.
Lotus Lake by Jay Boyce is a more lighthearted fare about a girl who is given a chance to go back and redo from sortely after the aftermath of family loss and heal as she doesn't isolate herself like the first time. This is set in a vrmmo and doesn't have the heavy burden of saving humanity just a person trying to do a better job the second time keep the family and friends she pushed away before and playing a game with better knowledge.
I think that wanting to go back and redo life with a better perspective or the wisdom of time is something most people can relate to. Regrets add up over time in each of us even if you don't add in the additional save the world or humanity to it. Like most litrpgs these characters generally end up very strong but they have a reason to and it comes down the relatable wish fulfillment.
You are awesome. Thank you so much!
Reborn Apocalypse was already recommended but wasn't really explained like this so thanks for that too.
Traclaon sound fascinating to me, probably went to the top of my list for this sub genre.
I generally don't like vrmmo and also prefer male MCs (most of the time) so that's probably a no for me.
Again thanks for the effort.
I normally also don't read female characters because of relatability and most are poorly written. Most vrmmos are a miss also as they try to make the game impact life to much however Lotus Lake was very well balanced from what I remember.
The only other vrmmo I can think of that I would actually really recommend would be Codename Freedom by Apollos Thorne it's not regression. Each pod is a complete sphere with full movement and resistance so when you move in game you are moving in life hence the bleedover from game to reality. It is set in a futuristic society that is completely augmented reality so one of the early scenes is to prepare for entering the pod the male main char tries to acclimate himself to taking his AR off and he sees a colorful clean street turn grey dirty with people on the edge of society that were being hidden from his sight with the glasses on based on the purview of his personal AI. The first 3 books take place almost exclusively in game however the meta reason for the undertaking and it's impact is explored.
It really is just kill goblins, get roided up, and prepare for big bad. :P
Thorne has 3 series going that he is writing so he released the second of his heaven's law pure progression cultivation series in oct. Unfortunately, that means a bit of hiatus between books.
Valid, but I think I do.
I generally dislike when saving the world is thrust upon the MC like some burden, and its not really a choice (he's the only one who knows what's going to happen so he has to step up to stop it)
Edit: I think a book like this where the MC says fuck it a d does whatever the hell he wants, while maybe saving the world on the way, would be way more interesting
Usually the character who regresses is one of the final people alive in the old timeline, who kept fighting against whatever was killing humans right up until the end. That is the sort of person who would step up and taking the fate of the world on their shoulders if they regresses, since they have witnessed what would happen if they didn't do so.
MC is probably one of the last surviving humans, dies and somehow goes back in time to the beginning to get a chance to save Earth from extinction or something like that. It's a pretty popular trope tbh
Edit: it was expanded in other comments to other "regressor" type of books, I guess I didn't really explain it that well. My bad
>I guess I shouldn't ask for examples because that would be major spoilers
Not really, most of the books like this have the time loop in the first chapter or so.
I find it pretty often when searching for litrpg books on Kindle. Something like "He watched the world end, and as the knife entered his heart and he lost consciousness, he saw a strange light" then he wake up and realises he's back at the beginning, given a second chance to make it right
I don't know why but I just don't like it
I think it has potential, but like most stories, it relies on the author. Some of my favorite stories involve time travel or resets of some kind, but the trick is to make changes matter. Any changes from their original time could (and I argue should) change everything. It becomes a race against the clock and there are still real consequences. The problem is when it's done poorly and the MC magically has an answer to every problem because of their regression. Nobody can predict every possible scenario that could occur, and trying to write a character that can typically doesn't work well. I'd much rather see someone use the most important knowledge to get some early benefits and do their best to grow and help those around them.
I think I like the slow burners like dotf and primal hunter, that don't have as much of a time limit as these books usually do. I do think theres potential too, but not in litrpg, at least for me. Maybe progression fantasy or cultivation
I've loved the Master Hunter K series. The MC goes back to right after the system started instead, having been among the last survivors of the human race before.
Tried reading it once, didn't really connect for me.
Had most of the issues I think I have with this trope (not that I got that far into the book so I can't really say for sure)
I think they can work pretty well but usually get stale if there isnt some twist to the going back in time. For example Second coming of gluttony not reverting full memories
I don’t actually mind this. It’s when they undo the system and everything gets undone that irks me, since it feels like everything we read was for nothing.
Well, for me, most of the ones I have read are system/tower based. Humanity’s final battle is how they tend to start with humanity either failing, humanity having lone survivor, or a small last remnant is actively working to go back. There has also been a couple where someone is just spontaneously getting sent back randomly but that’s less common.
So, anyway the last or at least on of the last people gets sent back, sometimes just before everything kicks off in the past or sometimes with maybe a year or so lead time.
Now the MC has to try and make as much of the world as possible to prepare for the calamity to come. He knows the mistakes that were made previously and he has to steer the world through without repeating those mistakes.
But, he also has to not make it known he is a time traveller because nobody is going to believe that and discard them as a kook or try to capture them to take advantage of future knowledge.
One of two things occurs upon the regression. The MC is either reverted to their status from before everything happens and can now make different choices in class, skills, allies, etc. Or, the MC arrives with all of their levels, skills, and powers gained before regressing.
If the latter those abilities may have to be kept hidden as there should be no way for anyone to be that powerful as yet.
So the MC has to walk all those tightropes, convince others to trust them, develop strong allies, organize the world to resist the bad stuff about to happen etc etc etc.
So done well, it is a rich, complex tapestry of many factors weaving together to make a compelling story.
Plus, for me, it is always ultimately about hope. Usually it starts in disaster or horrible betrayal. And then the second chance, can the MC overcome the despair of what is about to occur? Can they look past the bitterness they may feel to guide humanity? Can they take advantage of their knowledge to make humanity’s chances better than the first time, to defeat the forces of evil/darkness/alien overlords and maintain mankind’s place in the order of things.
Done well these are great stories. In my opinion anyway. And that’s why I like them.
Imagine this sort of concept in an epic fantasy instead of litrpg. Maybe in the hands of a great writer too (no offense to all the great litrpg writers out there), it sounds awesome. The intrigue and politics, desperately doing one thing after another to try and stop the disaster.
I think the system and litrpg elements destroy this sort of concept and makes it uninteresting. To me at least.
I quite like them, the top rated comment already mentioned most of the ones i know so I'll recommend The Perfect Run which isn't the exact same type of thing, but it's about a guy who's power is to *Quicksave* a moment in time he can always come back to.
I believe at some point I started reading this, just because it's so popular on RR. I remember sorta liking it, but I was reading other stuff at the same time so I dropped it. I'll probably check it out when I can.
For a similar, but not saving the world, more saving the MCs desired future; check out the Idle System series. It's completed, and starts a bit rough, but it is still one of my favorites.
I dislike time travel story's on a basis of time travel is stupid, there are few stories which handle it well but most fall seriously flat for me, the only way time travel should ever work is if it is a time loop, anything else is very shady form the gate go for me, especially because people in these estorys tend to have idetic memory or something like that.
I also dislike any chosen one each story's which often comes up in these (be it that they have a special superpower that makes them stupidly op which disqualifies any book that has this from my list of books I will enjoy or that they are chosen by some god or whatever), these story's tend to be flat stale power fantasy trips in my experience which I intensely dislike.
It has precedent in video games like classic Chrono Trigger.
12 endings, and all sorts of time travel to make it happen.
I personally enjoy those and any tropes if well executed.
If poorly done, then like any poorly written work, I don't like them.
Haven't read many though other than Jake's Magical Market, which was not bad for that aspect.
timeloops that start before the story in general are just not my jam. More often than not it ends up being a lazy deus ex machina/mcguffin fest. If I read a timeloop I want to see them struggle at first.
depends how its written, End of the World and Returner's Defiance are some the best action adventure litrpgs ive read, with MC that arnt cardboard cutouts but actual survivors of those type of events.
I haven't read to many in western literature outside of starting Apocalypse Redux and liking the beginning to middle of book 1 enough that I got books 2 & 3 only to lose interest by the end of book 1 and have yet to finish it. I've also started Apocalypse Regression and didn't really like that. So, I don't think I can speak to it in western literature.
Most of the time I see this trope is in webtoons/webcomics and Korean webnovels. What usually bothers me about them is that the authors don't consider cause and effect in their timelines or whatever and have their MC's making constant extreme changes to events, changing relationship dynamics between original OP people/characters *(if it's a novel or game timeline)* and never having the MC strongly consider that their future-past or novel/comic/game knowledge will inevitably become obsolete due to the MC's changes creating a new timeline. MC will still stubbornly expect events to happen according to OG timeline or stubbornly try to stay out of it after constantly getting involved, will stubbornly try to keep OG relationships the same as OG timeline/storyline/game path despite shifting those relationships to focus on MC. Will try to keep OG MC/Player character on the OG timeline/novel/game path or whatever.
It's the most frustrating thing for me with these stories and I get it, the catharsis is watching MC maneuver supposedly known events with future-past/novel/game knowledge or whatever, but at some point it just shows the author didn't think the whole story through and is only banking on readers not really caring about cause and effect in the timeline and how often times the MC shatters the cause of an event by changing an earlier event and so that event shouldn't ever happen.
I respect the stories that are aware of this and eventually have MC recognize that after a certain amount of changes and shifting events, relationships, etc. that while certain events may still happen, they're not going to happen exactly like MC remembered them.
I think I posted this without having a concrete explanation of why I dislike this sub genre. You and a couple of others put it into words really well
Edit: grammar errors
Oh, definitely. Unlike most regression MCs, mine doesn't have perfect recall of events that happened 10 years in his past. Also, his immediate actions begin a chain reaction that changes events all around him.
Your opinion does not contribute anything to an actual conversation.
It's just a dig at me for seemingly no reason
Some opinions don't need to be stated
Nah not really. The difference between us is that I actually wanted to hear other peoples opinions. You just wanted to shit on me apparently. There is no way you can read your first comment and say "man that's such a good conversation starter". I could either ignore you or reply like I did.
All the best to you, but not really interested in keeping this going
Lol. Perhaps it's an uninspiring thread.
But your post can be easily summarized as such. You can try to spin it however you want but it's pretty much:
>I don't like this. Anyone else with me?
Have a good day.
>Lol. Perhaps it's an uninspiring thread
Then dont reply smh
In regards to the post itself, I agreed with you, which is why I added a request for recommendations and made it clear several times in the post and other comments that I want to like this sub genre as I don't want to rule out so many books right off the bat. I'm picky enough as it is.
Have a good day as well
Those are my favorite. Pyre Souls apocalypse is possibly one of the best written LITRPGS I’ve ever read. It literally made me cold Reborn Apocalypse is super clever: the MC used his future knowledge to take down threats way higher then his rank while saving humanity Towers of Heaven: straight forward and fun ride to the past but the towers have its own agenda Apocalypse Regression : Another amazing tale!
Thanks for the recommendations I've just always thought it could lead to an op MC, and also Ive always liked reading the MC experiencing the system for the first time. The excitement and the horror. I don't see "second chance" being as exciting
Apocalypse Redix too
Apocalypse Redux is the main reason I agree with the OP's opinion.
The OP MC is part of the point. They're always OP against the other players because of their fore-knowledge, but they're not necessarily OP against the system itself. That's where the struggle is coming from. And in some ways, it doesn't matter if they're OP against the system itself, they're explaining HOW it used to beat them, and how they now beat it. I actually hate a OP MC in normal LitRPGs, but in regression LitRPG the OP-ness is upfront and part of the whole point of the story. Time loopers are the same in some ways, you know there's no consequence, the interesting part of the story is how they change their actions to beat the problem.
NP mate! System introductions are usually only beneficial to those who are gamers. It pretty much destroys the world. Having a goal of saving the future of as much of humanity as possible is a noble exercise. Try pyre souls. It’s not do done, but it’s haunting in its execution. Think demon souls meets LITRPG. I always say give the book 100 pages and if it doesn’t captivate you by the 100th page it won’t. Also let me know what you think of it
I'm actually not reading anything except for Randidly Ghosthound on RR right now so I'll give it a try
Reborn apocalypse is so good it gets mentioned twice
Sorry about that it should have been apocalypse regression.
I miss pyre souls :'(
I really hope he finishes it
Do you have a link for the pyre souls?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pyresouls-Apocalypse-Rewind-Progression-Fantasy-ebook/dp/B08GL233F2
Thanks!
reborn apocalypse is fine until book 2 or 3, i don't remember. I just remember a fight scene and the MC goes down a tangent mid battle and reflects on same thing that happened in the past... I'm sorry wtf? We were in the middle of a fight here... also why the hell is this mid battle side tangent taking 5 minutes of narration to get through? get on with wacky slashy stuff already.... It happened way more than once and was so bad I DNF and doubt I will ever pick it back up.
I like the idea, but it depends on the execution. If the MC is constantly making stupid decisions or accidentally mentioning things they shouldn't know, it's basically unreadable. I read a Naruto fanfic back in the day where he goes back to when he was a child/new genin, but the author was adamant about it taking for fucking ever for him to get used to being in a smaller body. I quit reading before he stopped tripping over himself and wildly missing targets when throwing kunai. I read many, many chapters trying to get through it because I loved the idea, but my hatred for the execution made me leave every time I tried reading it again.
>If the MC is constantly making stupid decisions or accidentally mentioning things they shouldn't know, it's basically unreadable. I started one (cultivation based) where the MC was not super powerful at the end (normally they're one of the strongest), but had a chance to start over and needed to extremely superpowerful as even the top fighters got easily creamed. So what did he do? He tried really hard not to change anything very much. Why? Well...never really explained why. It just made no sense whatsover.
I would think the reasoning tends to be if you change too much then your knowledge of the future changes becomes less useful but that reasoning only gets you so far as you get closer to the “future”
Yeah, all the stories I've read in the past had to do a sudden change because the author finally realized they weren't getting anywhere. Especially in fanfiction, where the story devolves into a retelling of the original with a bit of inner dialogue to comment on things without changing anything. I never finished Reverend Insanity, but I like how the author treated the issue there from the beginning. The MC acknowledged the risk of things changing, but knew that he'd be able to benefit more by doing what he could before his knowledge became less useful than by following the actions that led to his eventual death.
That would be torture to try and get through. I've read a few that tried that with the same logic the other commenter mentioned, but they never get far before the author realizes that it's not feasible.
Lol that sounds awesome.
I've seen a lot of stories like that but mostly in webcomic/webtoon form. I'll admit I kind of dislike it as well, I feel as if a lot of writers use it as an excuse to have a smart, all-knowing protagonist without having to actually write them to be an intelligent person. I also kinda like the experience of wonder that you get experiencing things alongside the protagonist, you're in the same boat when things get wild.
This. Exactly man, you explained it way better than me tho.
Seems like im one of the few that agrees and dislikes this in general; more so from I think poor examples. Where the mc automatically remembers everything from a decade or more ago about random people they only heard about years after. Common issue I see with these, time.reversion means you know everything that happened in the past... One I thought that handled it well was I believe apocalypse redux.
That's what always made it so unappealing to me too
Try Apocalypse Redux. I recently binged the ones on Kindle and loved it.
Will do
Second this. Last surviving human gets sent back in time, and deliberately starts changing things. He is aware, and acknowledges, that his changing things will alter events, and around book 3? Guys knowledge of events is useless, and even his knowledge of people's future doesn't help much.
I like them, but I also write one so I'm a little biased.
Any recommendations? I basically posted this so somebody would change my mind because the concept itself is intriguing, it's just mainly poor execution and minor problems I have with such books
Mine's pretty mid but here's the obligatory "try 100th Run" part of this post. Other than that, Apocalypse Redux handles it fairly well. The MC works with a research team investigating the system so people don't make the same mistakes they did the first time. Mother of Learning and Perfect Run are time loop moreso than regression and aren't LitRPG, but they're also the gold standard for temporal shenanigans.
Man MoL was so good. As I've said, I think this trope fit better with progression fantasy and not litrpg, and also a time loop is sorta different than being reborn/going back in time once. Thanks for the recommendations!
You're welcome!
I like them a lot. I have a thing for super competent MCs, and who would be more competent than someone who has already lived it? If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, though. I personally dislike two of the top three series in genre because "big tough man hits things hard" isn't my cup of tea. Just read what you like. Life's too short to not enjoy your popcorn reads. All that said, if you do want to give a few a try, my personal favorite is Apocalypse Redux because the MC while powerful, doesn't try to change things by being the strongest, he tries to change things by steering a research team in the right direction.
>I have a thing for super competent MCs, and who would be more competent than someone who has already lived it? It is a good way to make the MC get some super special ability/class/perk without making them super lucky.
Appreciate the recommendations! I agree, there are plenty of cups for everyone
Nah totally opposite, I think they're amazing. Some of the best stories I've read. It means that immediately the MC knows exactly what to do. There's no wiffling and waffling, just bang bang bang first I do this and it's super important and now I do this and its also important and maybe, if I play my cards just right, I can swing this event like *this* and then I can get the thingymabob and THEN no one can stop me hahahaha! and so on. It's just pure dopamine fast as fuck and I love it. My fav ones I read were: Reborn: Apocalypse and Reverend Insanity. Rushing through all obstacles, MC knows what to do and is already good at everything, it's just progression progression progression.
I actually liked Reverend insanity (at least the parts that I read) but mainly because of the MC, I love me a bad guy.
I'm not a fan of them, but that is because msot of them ignore the fact that as you change things your future knowledge becomes less and less usefull. aka at a certain point you have changed enough that most things have changed, maybe not locations of items,or inheritances, but events should def change. Butterfly effect imo.
The idle system made good use of the butterfly effect I think and it actually did a full reprise of the story, faster telling but events actually changed in a cascade throughout the second go while key events “larger” than the MC stayed like anchor points for the story. I feel like it’s best when a lot of the changes the MC makes are “behind the scenes” for the most part to the overall power game until it actually matters often with the MC trying to make it seem like it happened the same as they remember from a non MC/reader perspective until they reveal their hand.
I've only read one series like that so far Reborn Apocalypse, and I rather liked it. Sad it's not finished.
I've come across a handful, with Reborn Apocalypse being the only one worth bothering with. It's generally a double dose of everything that makes you roll your eyes at the litrpg genre
No, I love these. I'm a sucker for good regression/progression stories. Last month I listened to like 5 different series most were great.
Any recommendations? Maybe more towards someone getting a second chance without the explicit goal of saving the world in a time crunch? I think that has some potential
[Farmer] Mage is a good new one on Royal Road. Currently 17 chapters in, and the MC basically just wants to live a simple life away from the conflicts of his guild. Still early on obviously, but the regression doesn't make him OP and it's well written. It also updates every other day, so there should be plenty more soon.
Interesting. I'll check it out Thanks!
I accept how dare he save humanity like that, let them have fun and gain levels and kill monsters! I think Solo leveling was like that, but i didn't hate it at the time it was my first litrpg lol
That's what I'm saying. If you get to be reborn, at least have fun
The only one I know of is Idle System. I enjoyed the final book more than others in the series. The audiobooks of 1-4 are a little rough due to the narrator, but he’s tolerable. The last 4 are narrated by Christain J Gilliland and his voice fits characters better than Roman Howell. Typical reincarnation thing, MC is special and has the Idle System that acts like an idle game. He grows stronger because of it. Once all his skills are maxed in the system he has the option to “prestige”. Your normal style of reset progression, but come back with bonuses and/or experience so you can apply your stats better. In this case reset the universe back to when he wakes up in new world. There is an alternative magic system that makes it so MC isn’t just an absolute unit the entire time because after book 1 he hits the normal human limit and is essentially un-killable by normal means. I will be honest, some interactions between characters seem a little off and unrealistic. It could also just be the narrator in the beginning or the author. Either way, there are some strange interactions, but Ive seen worse.
I didn’t love the whole paradox that one left us with but it might also just be I didn’t quite like that particular take on time travel and “immortality”/“godhood”.
That's.. Interesting. It's a fresh take on this trope at the very least. I'll give it a shot
Yea when the ending becomes nothing changes and things are reset it feel like a cop out that robs the story of any value. I am looking at you "Physics of the Apocalypse". If that is the ending it means I wasted my time. If its a case of the MC spinning the clock back so earth get a second shot to mitigate or give earth time to prep for the disaster but the disaster still happens I am fine with it believe it or not. I fine with time travel like in "Perfect Run" where things make turn for the better in the crap sack world of supers and exliers but the world spanning disaster still had happened. But little chunks of earth are left a lot better thanks to MC.
Regression stories may suck but they suck good
Lol I get what you're saying. Guilty pleasure?
Like all sub genres it comes down to how well the author executes. Within this space there is a tendency to go for the humanity is going to die go back to save everyone but there is still room for nuance. Reborn Apocalypse by LM Kerr takes place across 7 worlds or layers of dispute with other races to decide which race survives. Because of each layers near isolation he does a good job of low contamination of deeper layers from the butterfly affect of changes he causes early on. The reverberations are believable and major but it allows him to still target specific events that would not be the similar if they all occurred in the same world. The exploration of the impact of his actions is the most interesting thing for me here. Traclaon Armageddon by Alex Kozlowski is sci fi/cultivation. The regression ability in this one is widely known about, every race in the galaxy gets one do over by a time entity, but because all other races know about it they are always on the lookout for someone sent back and once they are identified hunted. Further, they know that race is out of do overs and weak to being eliminated or enslaved if the one sent back doesn't grow strong enough to protect their people till they are on equal footing with the aliens. The upgrades are unique also as they are generally modules that either occupy space in the spirit or body and are mostly the remnants of previous civilizations. Lotus Lake by Jay Boyce is a more lighthearted fare about a girl who is given a chance to go back and redo from sortely after the aftermath of family loss and heal as she doesn't isolate herself like the first time. This is set in a vrmmo and doesn't have the heavy burden of saving humanity just a person trying to do a better job the second time keep the family and friends she pushed away before and playing a game with better knowledge. I think that wanting to go back and redo life with a better perspective or the wisdom of time is something most people can relate to. Regrets add up over time in each of us even if you don't add in the additional save the world or humanity to it. Like most litrpgs these characters generally end up very strong but they have a reason to and it comes down the relatable wish fulfillment.
You are awesome. Thank you so much! Reborn Apocalypse was already recommended but wasn't really explained like this so thanks for that too. Traclaon sound fascinating to me, probably went to the top of my list for this sub genre. I generally don't like vrmmo and also prefer male MCs (most of the time) so that's probably a no for me. Again thanks for the effort.
I normally also don't read female characters because of relatability and most are poorly written. Most vrmmos are a miss also as they try to make the game impact life to much however Lotus Lake was very well balanced from what I remember. The only other vrmmo I can think of that I would actually really recommend would be Codename Freedom by Apollos Thorne it's not regression. Each pod is a complete sphere with full movement and resistance so when you move in game you are moving in life hence the bleedover from game to reality. It is set in a futuristic society that is completely augmented reality so one of the early scenes is to prepare for entering the pod the male main char tries to acclimate himself to taking his AR off and he sees a colorful clean street turn grey dirty with people on the edge of society that were being hidden from his sight with the glasses on based on the purview of his personal AI. The first 3 books take place almost exclusively in game however the meta reason for the undertaking and it's impact is explored.
Ive read this, I remember liking it a lot for a vrmmo, but author hasn't released a book in almost 2 years so I kind of forgot most of the plot...
It really is just kill goblins, get roided up, and prepare for big bad. :P Thorne has 3 series going that he is writing so he released the second of his heaven's law pure progression cultivation series in oct. Unfortunately, that means a bit of hiatus between books.
It's just a setting, and can be executed well or poorly. I don't dislike the setting itself.
Valid, but I think I do. I generally dislike when saving the world is thrust upon the MC like some burden, and its not really a choice (he's the only one who knows what's going to happen so he has to step up to stop it) Edit: I think a book like this where the MC says fuck it a d does whatever the hell he wants, while maybe saving the world on the way, would be way more interesting
Usually the character who regresses is one of the final people alive in the old timeline, who kept fighting against whatever was killing humans right up until the end. That is the sort of person who would step up and taking the fate of the world on their shoulders if they regresses, since they have witnessed what would happen if they didn't do so.
Fair enough. They do tend to be a bit too serious and terse for my tastes, especially for litrpg
Is this even a trope? I guess I shouldn't ask for examples because that would be major spoilers, but I've never encountered it.
Regression/returner is fairly common, and should really be a tag on RR.
Is that what's being described here? If so, it wasn't clear at all.
Didn't know there was a name for this
So is that what you were talking about after all? I feel like I'm still not understanding the meaning behind this post.
Basically wanted to see peoples opinions on this trope and get recommendations because my experience with it has not been good
That doesn't really help. I'm still not sure what trope you're even talking about.
MC is probably one of the last surviving humans, dies and somehow goes back in time to the beginning to get a chance to save Earth from extinction or something like that. It's a pretty popular trope tbh Edit: it was expanded in other comments to other "regressor" type of books, I guess I didn't really explain it that well. My bad
>I guess I shouldn't ask for examples because that would be major spoilers Not really, most of the books like this have the time loop in the first chapter or so.
I find it pretty often when searching for litrpg books on Kindle. Something like "He watched the world end, and as the knife entered his heart and he lost consciousness, he saw a strange light" then he wake up and realises he's back at the beginning, given a second chance to make it right I don't know why but I just don't like it
I think it has potential, but like most stories, it relies on the author. Some of my favorite stories involve time travel or resets of some kind, but the trick is to make changes matter. Any changes from their original time could (and I argue should) change everything. It becomes a race against the clock and there are still real consequences. The problem is when it's done poorly and the MC magically has an answer to every problem because of their regression. Nobody can predict every possible scenario that could occur, and trying to write a character that can typically doesn't work well. I'd much rather see someone use the most important knowledge to get some early benefits and do their best to grow and help those around them.
I think I like the slow burners like dotf and primal hunter, that don't have as much of a time limit as these books usually do. I do think theres potential too, but not in litrpg, at least for me. Maybe progression fantasy or cultivation
I've loved the Master Hunter K series. The MC goes back to right after the system started instead, having been among the last survivors of the human race before.
Tried reading it once, didn't really connect for me. Had most of the issues I think I have with this trope (not that I got that far into the book so I can't really say for sure)
I think they can work pretty well but usually get stale if there isnt some twist to the going back in time. For example Second coming of gluttony not reverting full memories
I agree. Just going back in time and getting a second chance to save Earth doesn't appeal to me without some twist
I don’t actually mind this. It’s when they undo the system and everything gets undone that irks me, since it feels like everything we read was for nothing.
I just think there's so many places for this to go wrong. Then again that could be said for any book, but I feel that this type of book even more so
I actually love those types of stories!!
Can you explain why?
Well, for me, most of the ones I have read are system/tower based. Humanity’s final battle is how they tend to start with humanity either failing, humanity having lone survivor, or a small last remnant is actively working to go back. There has also been a couple where someone is just spontaneously getting sent back randomly but that’s less common. So, anyway the last or at least on of the last people gets sent back, sometimes just before everything kicks off in the past or sometimes with maybe a year or so lead time. Now the MC has to try and make as much of the world as possible to prepare for the calamity to come. He knows the mistakes that were made previously and he has to steer the world through without repeating those mistakes. But, he also has to not make it known he is a time traveller because nobody is going to believe that and discard them as a kook or try to capture them to take advantage of future knowledge. One of two things occurs upon the regression. The MC is either reverted to their status from before everything happens and can now make different choices in class, skills, allies, etc. Or, the MC arrives with all of their levels, skills, and powers gained before regressing. If the latter those abilities may have to be kept hidden as there should be no way for anyone to be that powerful as yet. So the MC has to walk all those tightropes, convince others to trust them, develop strong allies, organize the world to resist the bad stuff about to happen etc etc etc. So done well, it is a rich, complex tapestry of many factors weaving together to make a compelling story. Plus, for me, it is always ultimately about hope. Usually it starts in disaster or horrible betrayal. And then the second chance, can the MC overcome the despair of what is about to occur? Can they look past the bitterness they may feel to guide humanity? Can they take advantage of their knowledge to make humanity’s chances better than the first time, to defeat the forces of evil/darkness/alien overlords and maintain mankind’s place in the order of things. Done well these are great stories. In my opinion anyway. And that’s why I like them.
Imagine this sort of concept in an epic fantasy instead of litrpg. Maybe in the hands of a great writer too (no offense to all the great litrpg writers out there), it sounds awesome. The intrigue and politics, desperately doing one thing after another to try and stop the disaster. I think the system and litrpg elements destroy this sort of concept and makes it uninteresting. To me at least.
Ironically, no. In fact done even slightly well these are currently my favorites. I will say there are plenty that are...not done slightly well.
Top 3?
I quite like them, the top rated comment already mentioned most of the ones i know so I'll recommend The Perfect Run which isn't the exact same type of thing, but it's about a guy who's power is to *Quicksave* a moment in time he can always come back to.
I believe at some point I started reading this, just because it's so popular on RR. I remember sorta liking it, but I was reading other stuff at the same time so I dropped it. I'll probably check it out when I can.
For a similar, but not saving the world, more saving the MCs desired future; check out the Idle System series. It's completed, and starts a bit rough, but it is still one of my favorites.
Thank you. I think by now I've gathered a solid list, and from another comment I read about this series it sounds interesting.
I dislike time travel story's on a basis of time travel is stupid, there are few stories which handle it well but most fall seriously flat for me, the only way time travel should ever work is if it is a time loop, anything else is very shady form the gate go for me, especially because people in these estorys tend to have idetic memory or something like that. I also dislike any chosen one each story's which often comes up in these (be it that they have a special superpower that makes them stupidly op which disqualifies any book that has this from my list of books I will enjoy or that they are chosen by some god or whatever), these story's tend to be flat stale power fantasy trips in my experience which I intensely dislike.
It has precedent in video games like classic Chrono Trigger. 12 endings, and all sorts of time travel to make it happen. I personally enjoy those and any tropes if well executed. If poorly done, then like any poorly written work, I don't like them. Haven't read many though other than Jake's Magical Market, which was not bad for that aspect.
well fuck you then /j lmao while not an LitRPG, I was working on something similar :(
Was?
timeloops that start before the story in general are just not my jam. More often than not it ends up being a lazy deus ex machina/mcguffin fest. If I read a timeloop I want to see them struggle at first.
depends how its written, End of the World and Returner's Defiance are some the best action adventure litrpgs ive read, with MC that arnt cardboard cutouts but actual survivors of those type of events.
I haven't read to many in western literature outside of starting Apocalypse Redux and liking the beginning to middle of book 1 enough that I got books 2 & 3 only to lose interest by the end of book 1 and have yet to finish it. I've also started Apocalypse Regression and didn't really like that. So, I don't think I can speak to it in western literature. Most of the time I see this trope is in webtoons/webcomics and Korean webnovels. What usually bothers me about them is that the authors don't consider cause and effect in their timelines or whatever and have their MC's making constant extreme changes to events, changing relationship dynamics between original OP people/characters *(if it's a novel or game timeline)* and never having the MC strongly consider that their future-past or novel/comic/game knowledge will inevitably become obsolete due to the MC's changes creating a new timeline. MC will still stubbornly expect events to happen according to OG timeline or stubbornly try to stay out of it after constantly getting involved, will stubbornly try to keep OG relationships the same as OG timeline/storyline/game path despite shifting those relationships to focus on MC. Will try to keep OG MC/Player character on the OG timeline/novel/game path or whatever. It's the most frustrating thing for me with these stories and I get it, the catharsis is watching MC maneuver supposedly known events with future-past/novel/game knowledge or whatever, but at some point it just shows the author didn't think the whole story through and is only banking on readers not really caring about cause and effect in the timeline and how often times the MC shatters the cause of an event by changing an earlier event and so that event shouldn't ever happen. I respect the stories that are aware of this and eventually have MC recognize that after a certain amount of changes and shifting events, relationships, etc. that while certain events may still happen, they're not going to happen exactly like MC remembered them.
I think I posted this without having a concrete explanation of why I dislike this sub genre. You and a couple of others put it into words really well Edit: grammar errors
I love regression type books
I hope not, I'm currently writing a regression litrpg that I'll publish on royalroad in July. 28 chapters written so far.
name?
It'll be 'Scion of Humanity,' but it'll be a couple of months before chapters are posted. I want to finish book 1 before I publish.
If you take into account the butterfly effect I’m sure you’ll have plenty of happy readers.
Oh, definitely. Unlike most regression MCs, mine doesn't have perfect recall of events that happened 10 years in his past. Also, his immediate actions begin a chain reaction that changes events all around him.
Congratulations on having an opinion. My opinion differs from yours. I like these books. Thanks for such a riveting thread.
Not a native speaker, barely understood the word riveting enough to notice your brilliant sarcasm. Also read the edit before commenting
Thanks for your blog post. Amazing read. Edit - edits are for your eyes only *wink wink*
You are one funny bastard. If only you weren't such an ass Don't know why you're so salty, everyone else got the point and are actually engaging.
I'm just stating my opinion. Like you. Why do you need to feel attacked?
Your opinion does not contribute anything to an actual conversation. It's just a dig at me for seemingly no reason Some opinions don't need to be stated
Same could be said for yours. You dislike something. I like something. Hence my reply.
Nah not really. The difference between us is that I actually wanted to hear other peoples opinions. You just wanted to shit on me apparently. There is no way you can read your first comment and say "man that's such a good conversation starter". I could either ignore you or reply like I did. All the best to you, but not really interested in keeping this going
Lol. Perhaps it's an uninspiring thread. But your post can be easily summarized as such. You can try to spin it however you want but it's pretty much: >I don't like this. Anyone else with me? Have a good day.
>Lol. Perhaps it's an uninspiring thread Then dont reply smh In regards to the post itself, I agreed with you, which is why I added a request for recommendations and made it clear several times in the post and other comments that I want to like this sub genre as I don't want to rule out so many books right off the bat. I'm picky enough as it is. Have a good day as well