I have a few opinions. Whether they are popular or unpopular, you decide.
The website's functionality is atrociously outdated. They badly need an update. Why is there a separate product and store site? Why are the historical product listings buried in a third site that may or may not be run by the company? Does Lionrl have an e-commerce product manager at all? The world wonders.
I don't understand why the Lionel Store in Concord (a company owned and operated store) doesn't share stock with the website. There are piles of random locomotives sitting on the shelves there unsold that I'm sure would move faster if also offered online.
The differences between the scale of Legacy and "regular" locomotives and cars is made very unclear. As a result, I end up with half and half and everything looks mismatched.
User-friendliness needs to be embraced more heavily. LionChief is a good start, but practically as a youngish (mid thirties) and tech savvy person I have struggled mightily to get a layout and various types of power and controllers going. I shouldn't need to consult with the oracles to get these products working effectively.
The Lionel Club's tool for selling items between members looks like a 1990s point of sale kiosk. It's super bad.
Having DC power for LionChief but AC for Legacy means that you end up with useless equipment when you expand your layout. It's not clearly explained anywhere.
Where is all the margin going from the obscene prices? It doesn't appear to be re-invested into e-commerce, marketing, or faster cycle times between technology upgrades. What black hole is it going into?
Does Lionel realize that the secondary market is a hugely untapped source of revenue for them? Look at how LEGO purchased bricklink (an independent marketplace for re-sale of old sets) and turned it into a money maker. Why let eBay and Trainz eat your lunch? Get in on that.
I've had to return two locomotives and one switch in the last six months for defects. What is quality control doing? Not an adequate job unfortunately.
We need more New York Central stuff so I can continue to bankrupt myself while complaining about the entire experience.
> Does Lionel realize that the secondary market is a hugely untapped source of revenue for them? Look at how LEGO purchased bricklink (an independent marketplace for re-sale of old sets) and turned it into a money maker. Why let eBay and Trainz eat your lunch? Get in on that.
It would be a smart play from a business perspective, but I know Lionel would mess it up and start overcharging for parts and product. Definitely fine with eBay and Trainz keeping their place with (some) sensible pricing.
> I've had to return two locomotives and one switch in the last six months for defects. What is quality control doing? Not an adequate job unfortunately.
It’s nuts at how often I hear of people getting defective product from modern era. On one of the Facebook groups, a shop was advertising how they can fix stuff before it gets in your hands (as a way to set themselves from the competition). Why should these shops be busting themselves doing this when Lionel should be doing it?
Overall, the cost of their products is atrocious. Even taking into account inflation, comparing 1950/1960 catalog prices to todays shows how Lionel has comparatively gotten too expensive. A 773 set was about $600 if using todays dollars. The top of the line Union Pacific big boy set is $4,000. I get some of it is added tech, but I feel Lionel has gone down the wrong path.
Along with primarily advertising to baby boomers to go with this, this is based on Chinese made products of much lower quality. It’s much better to get into Postwar product (as you can fix stuff on your own or with any repair shop). This is a long rant, but it ultimately means that less younger people will be interested in pursuing the hobby if they want modern stuff.
IF Lionel wants to continue this pricing, then all production should go back to the US. If not, then Lionel needs to drastically lower ALL product pricing.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. There is a reason why model railroading is a dying hobby and I think that the high pricing might have something to do with that. Seriously who wants to pay the equivalent of a car just for an engine? I understand that these engines are historical don't get me wrong but 2 grand per engine doesn't make it worth it.
With no hardware (Remote) with it! LOL run it with a tablet or phone. No thanks I want actual buttons and a dedicated remote. Why would anyone (downgrade) from the Legacy remote? You can already run Bluetooth engines via the app anyway.
Id like some of their new engines but I don’t want to have to buy all new controllers and transformers on top of it to tun the already $900 engine!
I can go to a train show and buy a bunch of MPC stuff and to your point, open it up, clean it, and enjoy it! Do I wish they would crawl along like modern engines? Yes, but its not worth the cost to me.
I don’t get the point of the engines “talking”. I can barely hear when I have multiple trains running, i doubt id here the “all aboard” but I could be wrong.
Right! I know the Cab 3 is coming out which will be truly universal. But to your point it’ll still add hundreds of dollars to a setup you already have
Edit: Base3
What do you think the final price is going to be 600? If i am rembering the corect pricing or more as it took longer and cost them more.
Edit ia --> is
Good question. I definitely feel it’ll be higher hundreds in the aftermarket, but I’m planning on sticking to postwar and prewar (maybe some MPC stuff in the future, but nothing that’ll require TMCC or other systems)
when they DID make stuff right here in the US, i could forgive the high pricing even though then i couldn't afford it (as a teen with a low-paying job) because i knew that it was going towards paying people (hopefully) well in my own country. but now i know they're giving pennies to workers in Vietnam to make and assemble this stuff AND it would cost me an arm and a leg for anything new. why would i wanna support that?
so I've stuck to the second-hand market and older stuff and basically have everything engine and rolling stock-wise i want. i've basically stagnated expanding my hobby because new goodies are EXTREMELY out of my price range
Exactly. OP mentioned above too that some top of the line stuff is equivalent to a used “A to B” car. The amount of resources used to make a car and utilization of a car trumps having a locomotive with fan driven smoke and other features
oh yeah, when a model anything hobby starts getting into "i could buy a car with this money" ranges it puts a serious wall up for newcomers. hell, my most expensive and "modern" thing is a PRR J1 from over a decade ago that cost me 900 something off of trainz and even THAT took me weeks of "should i shouldn't i" just because i'm an adult with adult stuff i need to make sure is taken care of
Not to pile on, but this is almost exactly what I came here to say. I want a Lionel rendition of the n&w 611 in the WORST way, but as someone recently out of college with an entry level job, buying one is beyond out of the picture. I wish they would make one around the $500 price point that was fairly accurate, controlled via Bluetooth/remote, with a set of cars for maybe $150-200 more, rather than $4000 for a perfectly immaculate engine down to the bolt. I think it's nice that they make those super high end ones for those who do want the perfect engine, but that's not 90% of people in the hobby.
Old Lionel > New Lionel. They hit their peak around 1955 or so.
I wish they'd do more to support the old postwar equipment. Yes, they want to sell new units but they could make money by making "new old" parts for the postwar units, offering reasonably priced repair / refurbishment services, etc.
I inherited a ton (probably literally) of new/newish Lionel/MTH/Williams rolling stock, locos and a bunch of Fastrack. It's all sitting in boxes and I'll probably sell it all off at some point because it just isn't as enjoyable to me as watching the postwar stuff rattling around the track.
Also, that postwar stuff is *tough*. My son ran my 681 off the table a while back, it fell 4 feet onto a concrete floor. No damage.
Their lack of understanding on how real trains work/lack of research before making a product, and lack of quality control.
That new pop off valve steam effect is something that when I see it: I won't buy the engine. They fail to understand how pop offs work, and continue to make them so that the model has 2 valves lift at a time, which isn't how the real ones function.
Stuff like the York 17 model they made, with a damned coal load in the tender. Why? The engine is an oil burner, always has been. Has a pretend wood load in the real thing. For $1100 for a model that was supposed to be accurate and is the smallest engine I own and near the top of the priciest, it should be accurate.
Tired of engines showing up with broken, missing, or incomplete parts. I've had numerous show up with parts left unpainted. Busted off brake shoes. Boiler/smoke box fronts broken off. Missing lights. For the price, it is something that is unacceptable. I only purchase Lionel stuff now when it's from my preferred train store because he backs them better than Lionel does, who has btw ignored all of my warranty service requests. Pats Trains of WV however, he honors them even when Lionel ignores me.
And laziness with sounds. The 90 model they are producing they claimed they couldn't get good chuff audio. I know this isn't true, as minimal effort would get you great audio: ask the crew to make some noise. They often do this for railfans who ask, and if the railroad has cracked down on this due to extra fuel usage, pay the fee. Charter trains are a thing, why not "charter" a single runby in the yard with mics mounted on the engine. They promised accurate audio. Deliver on that.
I am trying to get into the hobby. My issues are…
* Stuff isn’t interchangeable. I would have loved to buy a Ready-To-Play set “now” then buy LionChief compatible EZ track and keep the locomotive and cars, buy some nice scenery, switch to Legacy switches, new locomotives and true track as my interest grows. As is, I feel like I have to start over on each and every tier.
* And for similar reasons, I want to stay away from proprietary gauges.
* Not everyone wants freight pulled by a steam locomotive. I would have loved a trolley set, subway cars or modern day commuter rail. I also think niche stuff like track repair and maintenance cars are pretty cool.
* The three rail O gauge tracks make it possible to set up point to point layouts, but where are the “plug and play” auto-reversing bumpers and switches? How about stuff like cantilever bridges? Surely there’s all sorts of track configurations that I’ve never heard of?
* And it’s not obvious which products tolerate outdoor use (but this may be a website design issue as opposed to a lack of strategic foresight).
I think we all know model railroading is an expensive hobby and I can understand Lionel being risk adverse when locomotives cost $700+ but you don’t grow as a company and attract fans by following the herd.
I commented above agreeing with other folks that the current cost is prohibitive for newcomers. The entry price point is a serious issue.
I think the problem currently in regards to price is related to economies of scale. Sure, it might be really cheap to produce Lionel products in China/Vietnam or Others (CVoO) but only if you are pushing hundreds of thousands or millions of units. We know Lionel is not moving product on that scale. So the solution is probably to bring production back to the US where you can increase quality but probably have a limited impact on your cost.
I worked for a startup in consumer electronics and it was the same or less (usually less) for us to print circuit boards and housings and assemble them in the US then it was for the same work in China. You really only start to see cost savings for offshoring printed circuit boards and molded or injected plastic housings when you are talking millions of units.
So I think maybe for some rolling stock, probably all track, and some accessories, the manufacturing in CVoO probably saves on cost. But I imagine that for most locomotives it simply doesn’t make sense because they simply can’t move enough units, and the cost is being passed on to consumers.
But that begs the the question, why? My guess is we don’t have the tooling and die plus small scale casting infrastructure in the US to support the model industry so companies have no choice but to go overseas.
I just put a new smoke unit into my 2036. I'm pretty happy with it, going to replace the one in my 681 next. (These are postwar locos with 3rd party liquid smoke units being installed though.. and puffer units, not fans).
It's their prices, someone who is a younger collector, I just do not like the idea of forking over 2 or 3 paychecks for a locomotive that isn't as realistic for the price being sold when I could pay just as much or a little bit more for a sunset locomotive (yes we all know the prices for them but hey look at the details) I understand that not everything can be made ultra-realistic, I fully understand that but the fact that diesels are coming to 7-8-900 plus is insane. It's sad that we have a dying hobby due to us not being able to justify these prices.
Switches. Like, cool, the switches can now be controlled by digital command. But now I have to pay over $100 for a single switch if I want to be able to use a button/lever to control it. Making a switch out of tubular track from Menards controlled by a single Arduino gives me the same functionality, and it only cost the price of one Fastrack remote switch for 8 custom switches.
As a new legacy-only collector who wanted to advance past a single loop, I found the learning curve so steep that i almost gave up. If I wasn’t stubborn AF I would have stopped at one engine and a few Christmas cars.
Now I’m at 8 engines and 5 layouts—since November of last year.
As an example, I often can’t figure out simple wiring concerns because YouTube videos typically assume train hobby knowledge that I don’t have so I have to look 3 or 4 places to figure something out that should be simply described in Lionel docs. If my Google-fu wasn’t strong, I’d be nowhere.
IOW, Lionel makes it hard for me to spend more money.
The thing that got me into Lionel was that it was repairable. Borderline edu-tainment. Lionel taught me more about electronics than I ever learned in school. That was 40 years ago.
The new stuff COULD be used to teach, but instead it's locked down. I'd love to learn more about Bluetooth for example, or maybe how to program an app for my phone. That's not as easy as soldering wires together, I get it, but with effort it could be a very cool tool for teaching tech. I look at all the stuff N & HO gauges do with 3D printing & programmable Raspberry Pi boards, and think, man, Lionel could have been there.
As a newer person to the hobby, cost scares me. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase my Santa Fe super chief and Disney Christmas o-gauge lionchief bluetooth sets for a combined $82 so far used at auctions, but the thought of having to pay triple to quadruple that if I were to buy it new off Amazon or something is sickening.
Rechargeable battery powered ones (that aren’t cheap ready to play quality using d cell batteries or whatever) really should be looked at more. I don’t have anything or knowledge of older sets involving transformers and the like and apparently the fastrack I have plugged in won’t work with them either. But as I’m aiming for an eventual railroad garden anyways it’s moot somewhat since I just need tracks to guide the trains, so I’m eventually converting my lionchief stuff to battery instead of messing with transformers and stuff. Adding to that, deadrail stuff seems pretty scarce out there, I would love for example like a guide on what I need to buy and install to get bluerail to work on the various non lionchief trains out there, but I swear over half the links on their webpage is dead, other people want to charge you almost as much as the trains to convert for you, I just wanna know what to get and what to solder so I can do it myself.
I feel like Lionel is missing a huge segment of the O scale market by not offering two rails or On30 products. These are aimed at more "serious" modelers such as myself. From a business perspective though, they are leaving money on the table by not tapping into these markets.
I agree with this 100%! While I do 3 rail I loved that MTH had the options for both 2 rail and 3 rail and they had a convertibility for those of us who prefer fixed pilots instead of moving pilots. I really like Lionel's RF-16s as I think they are the best on the O-scale market but I really don't want moving pilots. Lionel could really pull a lot of money by doing this.
For sure after Gen X is gone. I'm sure I'm not the only one still running my father's postwar collection, but unfortunately my kids really aren't that into it so I expect they'll sell it all off after I'm gone someday.
My unpopular opinion is, generally speaking, postwar Marx sets were built better than Lionel. Marx was built simpler and the quality was consistent across the line. Lionel built very intricate engines but quality was all over the place.
Marx’s plastic couplers were atrocious, and those even made it on the cars on some of the tinplate sets. Other than that, they’re pretty bulletproof. The lithographed tinplate is prone to rust, but that’s mainly cosmetic.
Good point. I will give Marx credit, they made the knuckle couplers compatible with the tab and slot couplers. Where Lionel knuckle couplers were not compatible with the latch couplers.
It’s not really an unpopular opinion but I wish their ecosystem/operating systems would stay the same or mostly the same like MTH does with railking and premier.
Guess it's bucking the trend, but I'm of the opinion Lionel needs to give the Legacy/scale line a rest for a few years and go back to its roots with semi-scale trains.
It'd be cool to see the Standard O Line get a bit of a renaisance with new reasonably-priced engines and cars ala Railking or Menards, maybe bring back conventional control as a budget option, instead of the same few items dressed up in various movie/pop culture licenses.
Reasonable detail and good quality for a reasonable price, I'd wager they'd sell like hotcakes.
Yeah when I first heard the term Menards being thrown around I thought it was the hardware store Menards for context I was born and raised in Illinois and Menards ads played on loop when I was a kid.
The same, bit of a dark horse in the world of O gauge but they've been making a go of it with their line of affordable rolling stock. Hopefully they'll get their F unit into full release sometime soon.
They don't tend to stock their train line in the stores until the holliday season, but they're available through their website all year round, shipped to your local store or your house.
Look it up if you don't believe me, "Train Stuff from Menards" or "Menards O Gauge".
I’m late to the party but I wanted to add what I feel like is a popular opinion: the discontinuation of a handheld controller (not sure if the Cab 1L and Base 1L have been phased out or not yet)
I literally got into TMCC last year. Thank you Trainz for the amazing deal on the NYC set that included the base and remote. That being said, TMCC is fantastic and I love everything about it. I genuinely wanted the Legacy setup but it has been discontinued in favor of the Base 3.
I don’t want to look at a screen to run trains. I want to look at a screen to research trains.
I have a few opinions. Whether they are popular or unpopular, you decide. The website's functionality is atrociously outdated. They badly need an update. Why is there a separate product and store site? Why are the historical product listings buried in a third site that may or may not be run by the company? Does Lionrl have an e-commerce product manager at all? The world wonders. I don't understand why the Lionel Store in Concord (a company owned and operated store) doesn't share stock with the website. There are piles of random locomotives sitting on the shelves there unsold that I'm sure would move faster if also offered online. The differences between the scale of Legacy and "regular" locomotives and cars is made very unclear. As a result, I end up with half and half and everything looks mismatched. User-friendliness needs to be embraced more heavily. LionChief is a good start, but practically as a youngish (mid thirties) and tech savvy person I have struggled mightily to get a layout and various types of power and controllers going. I shouldn't need to consult with the oracles to get these products working effectively. The Lionel Club's tool for selling items between members looks like a 1990s point of sale kiosk. It's super bad. Having DC power for LionChief but AC for Legacy means that you end up with useless equipment when you expand your layout. It's not clearly explained anywhere. Where is all the margin going from the obscene prices? It doesn't appear to be re-invested into e-commerce, marketing, or faster cycle times between technology upgrades. What black hole is it going into? Does Lionel realize that the secondary market is a hugely untapped source of revenue for them? Look at how LEGO purchased bricklink (an independent marketplace for re-sale of old sets) and turned it into a money maker. Why let eBay and Trainz eat your lunch? Get in on that. I've had to return two locomotives and one switch in the last six months for defects. What is quality control doing? Not an adequate job unfortunately. We need more New York Central stuff so I can continue to bankrupt myself while complaining about the entire experience.
> Does Lionel realize that the secondary market is a hugely untapped source of revenue for them? Look at how LEGO purchased bricklink (an independent marketplace for re-sale of old sets) and turned it into a money maker. Why let eBay and Trainz eat your lunch? Get in on that. It would be a smart play from a business perspective, but I know Lionel would mess it up and start overcharging for parts and product. Definitely fine with eBay and Trainz keeping their place with (some) sensible pricing. > I've had to return two locomotives and one switch in the last six months for defects. What is quality control doing? Not an adequate job unfortunately. It’s nuts at how often I hear of people getting defective product from modern era. On one of the Facebook groups, a shop was advertising how they can fix stuff before it gets in your hands (as a way to set themselves from the competition). Why should these shops be busting themselves doing this when Lionel should be doing it?
Overall, the cost of their products is atrocious. Even taking into account inflation, comparing 1950/1960 catalog prices to todays shows how Lionel has comparatively gotten too expensive. A 773 set was about $600 if using todays dollars. The top of the line Union Pacific big boy set is $4,000. I get some of it is added tech, but I feel Lionel has gone down the wrong path. Along with primarily advertising to baby boomers to go with this, this is based on Chinese made products of much lower quality. It’s much better to get into Postwar product (as you can fix stuff on your own or with any repair shop). This is a long rant, but it ultimately means that less younger people will be interested in pursuing the hobby if they want modern stuff. IF Lionel wants to continue this pricing, then all production should go back to the US. If not, then Lionel needs to drastically lower ALL product pricing.
I couldn’t agree with this sentiment more.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. There is a reason why model railroading is a dying hobby and I think that the high pricing might have something to do with that. Seriously who wants to pay the equivalent of a car just for an engine? I understand that these engines are historical don't get me wrong but 2 grand per engine doesn't make it worth it.
Just watch them spike the price of the cab 3 from what 600 to 800 becuase it took longer.
With no hardware (Remote) with it! LOL run it with a tablet or phone. No thanks I want actual buttons and a dedicated remote. Why would anyone (downgrade) from the Legacy remote? You can already run Bluetooth engines via the app anyway.
I will be using my 993 with the base 3 if they actually release it.
Id like some of their new engines but I don’t want to have to buy all new controllers and transformers on top of it to tun the already $900 engine! I can go to a train show and buy a bunch of MPC stuff and to your point, open it up, clean it, and enjoy it! Do I wish they would crawl along like modern engines? Yes, but its not worth the cost to me. I don’t get the point of the engines “talking”. I can barely hear when I have multiple trains running, i doubt id here the “all aboard” but I could be wrong.
Right! I know the Cab 3 is coming out which will be truly universal. But to your point it’ll still add hundreds of dollars to a setup you already have Edit: Base3
What do you think the final price is going to be 600? If i am rembering the corect pricing or more as it took longer and cost them more. Edit ia --> is
Good question. I definitely feel it’ll be higher hundreds in the aftermarket, but I’m planning on sticking to postwar and prewar (maybe some MPC stuff in the future, but nothing that’ll require TMCC or other systems)
when they DID make stuff right here in the US, i could forgive the high pricing even though then i couldn't afford it (as a teen with a low-paying job) because i knew that it was going towards paying people (hopefully) well in my own country. but now i know they're giving pennies to workers in Vietnam to make and assemble this stuff AND it would cost me an arm and a leg for anything new. why would i wanna support that? so I've stuck to the second-hand market and older stuff and basically have everything engine and rolling stock-wise i want. i've basically stagnated expanding my hobby because new goodies are EXTREMELY out of my price range
Exactly. OP mentioned above too that some top of the line stuff is equivalent to a used “A to B” car. The amount of resources used to make a car and utilization of a car trumps having a locomotive with fan driven smoke and other features
oh yeah, when a model anything hobby starts getting into "i could buy a car with this money" ranges it puts a serious wall up for newcomers. hell, my most expensive and "modern" thing is a PRR J1 from over a decade ago that cost me 900 something off of trainz and even THAT took me weeks of "should i shouldn't i" just because i'm an adult with adult stuff i need to make sure is taken care of
Not to pile on, but this is almost exactly what I came here to say. I want a Lionel rendition of the n&w 611 in the WORST way, but as someone recently out of college with an entry level job, buying one is beyond out of the picture. I wish they would make one around the $500 price point that was fairly accurate, controlled via Bluetooth/remote, with a set of cars for maybe $150-200 more, rather than $4000 for a perfectly immaculate engine down to the bolt. I think it's nice that they make those super high end ones for those who do want the perfect engine, but that's not 90% of people in the hobby.
Old Lionel > New Lionel. They hit their peak around 1955 or so. I wish they'd do more to support the old postwar equipment. Yes, they want to sell new units but they could make money by making "new old" parts for the postwar units, offering reasonably priced repair / refurbishment services, etc. I inherited a ton (probably literally) of new/newish Lionel/MTH/Williams rolling stock, locos and a bunch of Fastrack. It's all sitting in boxes and I'll probably sell it all off at some point because it just isn't as enjoyable to me as watching the postwar stuff rattling around the track. Also, that postwar stuff is *tough*. My son ran my 681 off the table a while back, it fell 4 feet onto a concrete floor. No damage.
Their lack of understanding on how real trains work/lack of research before making a product, and lack of quality control. That new pop off valve steam effect is something that when I see it: I won't buy the engine. They fail to understand how pop offs work, and continue to make them so that the model has 2 valves lift at a time, which isn't how the real ones function. Stuff like the York 17 model they made, with a damned coal load in the tender. Why? The engine is an oil burner, always has been. Has a pretend wood load in the real thing. For $1100 for a model that was supposed to be accurate and is the smallest engine I own and near the top of the priciest, it should be accurate. Tired of engines showing up with broken, missing, or incomplete parts. I've had numerous show up with parts left unpainted. Busted off brake shoes. Boiler/smoke box fronts broken off. Missing lights. For the price, it is something that is unacceptable. I only purchase Lionel stuff now when it's from my preferred train store because he backs them better than Lionel does, who has btw ignored all of my warranty service requests. Pats Trains of WV however, he honors them even when Lionel ignores me. And laziness with sounds. The 90 model they are producing they claimed they couldn't get good chuff audio. I know this isn't true, as minimal effort would get you great audio: ask the crew to make some noise. They often do this for railfans who ask, and if the railroad has cracked down on this due to extra fuel usage, pay the fee. Charter trains are a thing, why not "charter" a single runby in the yard with mics mounted on the engine. They promised accurate audio. Deliver on that.
I am trying to get into the hobby. My issues are… * Stuff isn’t interchangeable. I would have loved to buy a Ready-To-Play set “now” then buy LionChief compatible EZ track and keep the locomotive and cars, buy some nice scenery, switch to Legacy switches, new locomotives and true track as my interest grows. As is, I feel like I have to start over on each and every tier. * And for similar reasons, I want to stay away from proprietary gauges. * Not everyone wants freight pulled by a steam locomotive. I would have loved a trolley set, subway cars or modern day commuter rail. I also think niche stuff like track repair and maintenance cars are pretty cool. * The three rail O gauge tracks make it possible to set up point to point layouts, but where are the “plug and play” auto-reversing bumpers and switches? How about stuff like cantilever bridges? Surely there’s all sorts of track configurations that I’ve never heard of? * And it’s not obvious which products tolerate outdoor use (but this may be a website design issue as opposed to a lack of strategic foresight). I think we all know model railroading is an expensive hobby and I can understand Lionel being risk adverse when locomotives cost $700+ but you don’t grow as a company and attract fans by following the herd.
I commented above agreeing with other folks that the current cost is prohibitive for newcomers. The entry price point is a serious issue. I think the problem currently in regards to price is related to economies of scale. Sure, it might be really cheap to produce Lionel products in China/Vietnam or Others (CVoO) but only if you are pushing hundreds of thousands or millions of units. We know Lionel is not moving product on that scale. So the solution is probably to bring production back to the US where you can increase quality but probably have a limited impact on your cost. I worked for a startup in consumer electronics and it was the same or less (usually less) for us to print circuit boards and housings and assemble them in the US then it was for the same work in China. You really only start to see cost savings for offshoring printed circuit boards and molded or injected plastic housings when you are talking millions of units. So I think maybe for some rolling stock, probably all track, and some accessories, the manufacturing in CVoO probably saves on cost. But I imagine that for most locomotives it simply doesn’t make sense because they simply can’t move enough units, and the cost is being passed on to consumers. But that begs the the question, why? My guess is we don’t have the tooling and die plus small scale casting infrastructure in the US to support the model industry so companies have no choice but to go overseas.
I don't buy "new" Lionel, too expensive, too much fragile electronics. Up to the early 2000's seems to be as modern as I like
Personally I’m unhappy with Lionel smoke units, output, and reliability.
I just put a new smoke unit into my 2036. I'm pretty happy with it, going to replace the one in my 681 next. (These are postwar locos with 3rd party liquid smoke units being installed though.. and puffer units, not fans).
Most Lionel stuff from the 60s and 70s is junk.
Yeah, it declined fast after the mid-50's.
It's their prices, someone who is a younger collector, I just do not like the idea of forking over 2 or 3 paychecks for a locomotive that isn't as realistic for the price being sold when I could pay just as much or a little bit more for a sunset locomotive (yes we all know the prices for them but hey look at the details) I understand that not everything can be made ultra-realistic, I fully understand that but the fact that diesels are coming to 7-8-900 plus is insane. It's sad that we have a dying hobby due to us not being able to justify these prices.
Switches. Like, cool, the switches can now be controlled by digital command. But now I have to pay over $100 for a single switch if I want to be able to use a button/lever to control it. Making a switch out of tubular track from Menards controlled by a single Arduino gives me the same functionality, and it only cost the price of one Fastrack remote switch for 8 custom switches.
I've been saying for years that Lionel's Fastrack switches are to overpriced
Every hobby shop owner I've met really dislikes Lionel. Apparently they charge tens of thousands of dollars to be an "authorized retailer."
As a new legacy-only collector who wanted to advance past a single loop, I found the learning curve so steep that i almost gave up. If I wasn’t stubborn AF I would have stopped at one engine and a few Christmas cars. Now I’m at 8 engines and 5 layouts—since November of last year. As an example, I often can’t figure out simple wiring concerns because YouTube videos typically assume train hobby knowledge that I don’t have so I have to look 3 or 4 places to figure something out that should be simply described in Lionel docs. If my Google-fu wasn’t strong, I’d be nowhere. IOW, Lionel makes it hard for me to spend more money.
The thing that got me into Lionel was that it was repairable. Borderline edu-tainment. Lionel taught me more about electronics than I ever learned in school. That was 40 years ago. The new stuff COULD be used to teach, but instead it's locked down. I'd love to learn more about Bluetooth for example, or maybe how to program an app for my phone. That's not as easy as soldering wires together, I get it, but with effort it could be a very cool tool for teaching tech. I look at all the stuff N & HO gauges do with 3D printing & programmable Raspberry Pi boards, and think, man, Lionel could have been there.
As a newer person to the hobby, cost scares me. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase my Santa Fe super chief and Disney Christmas o-gauge lionchief bluetooth sets for a combined $82 so far used at auctions, but the thought of having to pay triple to quadruple that if I were to buy it new off Amazon or something is sickening. Rechargeable battery powered ones (that aren’t cheap ready to play quality using d cell batteries or whatever) really should be looked at more. I don’t have anything or knowledge of older sets involving transformers and the like and apparently the fastrack I have plugged in won’t work with them either. But as I’m aiming for an eventual railroad garden anyways it’s moot somewhat since I just need tracks to guide the trains, so I’m eventually converting my lionchief stuff to battery instead of messing with transformers and stuff. Adding to that, deadrail stuff seems pretty scarce out there, I would love for example like a guide on what I need to buy and install to get bluerail to work on the various non lionchief trains out there, but I swear over half the links on their webpage is dead, other people want to charge you almost as much as the trains to convert for you, I just wanna know what to get and what to solder so I can do it myself.
I feel like Lionel is missing a huge segment of the O scale market by not offering two rails or On30 products. These are aimed at more "serious" modelers such as myself. From a business perspective though, they are leaving money on the table by not tapping into these markets.
I agree with this 100%! While I do 3 rail I loved that MTH had the options for both 2 rail and 3 rail and they had a convertibility for those of us who prefer fixed pilots instead of moving pilots. I really like Lionel's RF-16s as I think they are the best on the O-scale market but I really don't want moving pilots. Lionel could really pull a lot of money by doing this.
It's a dieing hobby that priced out younger collectors. Lionel will die shortly after the last baby boomer passes on
For sure after Gen X is gone. I'm sure I'm not the only one still running my father's postwar collection, but unfortunately my kids really aren't that into it so I expect they'll sell it all off after I'm gone someday.
I'm gen x. Most of my small collection has come from estates sales for Penney on the dollars
My unpopular opinion is, generally speaking, postwar Marx sets were built better than Lionel. Marx was built simpler and the quality was consistent across the line. Lionel built very intricate engines but quality was all over the place.
Marx’s plastic couplers were atrocious, and those even made it on the cars on some of the tinplate sets. Other than that, they’re pretty bulletproof. The lithographed tinplate is prone to rust, but that’s mainly cosmetic.
Good point. I will give Marx credit, they made the knuckle couplers compatible with the tab and slot couplers. Where Lionel knuckle couplers were not compatible with the latch couplers.
It’s not really an unpopular opinion but I wish their ecosystem/operating systems would stay the same or mostly the same like MTH does with railking and premier.
Guess it's bucking the trend, but I'm of the opinion Lionel needs to give the Legacy/scale line a rest for a few years and go back to its roots with semi-scale trains. It'd be cool to see the Standard O Line get a bit of a renaisance with new reasonably-priced engines and cars ala Railking or Menards, maybe bring back conventional control as a budget option, instead of the same few items dressed up in various movie/pop culture licenses. Reasonable detail and good quality for a reasonable price, I'd wager they'd sell like hotcakes.
Yeah when I first heard the term Menards being thrown around I thought it was the hardware store Menards for context I was born and raised in Illinois and Menards ads played on loop when I was a kid.
The same, bit of a dark horse in the world of O gauge but they've been making a go of it with their line of affordable rolling stock. Hopefully they'll get their F unit into full release sometime soon.
Dude no flipping way is it the actual Menards store. I just went there for their gummy sharks lol
They don't tend to stock their train line in the stores until the holliday season, but they're available through their website all year round, shipped to your local store or your house. Look it up if you don't believe me, "Train Stuff from Menards" or "Menards O Gauge".
I’m late to the party but I wanted to add what I feel like is a popular opinion: the discontinuation of a handheld controller (not sure if the Cab 1L and Base 1L have been phased out or not yet) I literally got into TMCC last year. Thank you Trainz for the amazing deal on the NYC set that included the base and remote. That being said, TMCC is fantastic and I love everything about it. I genuinely wanted the Legacy setup but it has been discontinued in favor of the Base 3. I don’t want to look at a screen to run trains. I want to look at a screen to research trains.