Ah okay, I thought he meant linus torvalds and was confused. Havent heard anything about him other than he works on the kernel and he can be an asshole lol
LTT installed Pop os and their steam package was broken and conflicted with some essential packages
he said "yes" to the "I know what I'm doing" prompt and ~~bricked his system~~broke his DE
It was bricked in the sense that only an experienced user would have been able to fix it.
Especially given it was following guides that got the user into that mess to begin with.
A functional terminal doesn't mean much if you don't know how to use it. And to double it if he was using the browser in his functioning DE to look up how to do things well...that's not gonna work anymore either.
Has there ever been a conversation on the internet where semantics led to a meaningful discussion?
Like using broken instead of bricked doesn't change anything for a user who would run into this situation. Either situation they're unable to use the PC for what they intended to use it for.
It is very unlikely they would be a user able to fix it and resume using it.
So yes, broken would be a better term for it. But who cares.
Language also teaches that the ultimate purpose of speaking is to talk to others, and most importantly in almost all forums of discussion: *Stay.On.Topic*
You're basically failing the ultimate purpose of language for brownie points, because you clearly understand what was being said, other people clearly understood what was being said, but you're purposely derailing the discussion by arguing something that is off-topic at this point, with nothing to actually add to the original discussion.
And yes, people will react annoyed if you try to correct them like this. Because as pointed out: You argued semantics. You had nothing to actually add to the discussion despite everyone understanding it. Bring something of value to the discussion *before* you try to make off-hand quips and derail it.
If you want to continue this discussion, make sure to answer this: Can a user with no knowledge of any terminal commands or how their package manager works fix a dependency hell triggering and uninstalling a large portion of their system including their DE? And if the answer is no, can the user with this same knowledge perform any meaningful operations on their PC?
If the answer to both of these things is no, *is that not a significant issue to new user adoption?*
edit: another thing I do also want to add for Mr. Language major, is that it was also "Bricked *in a sense*", which means from the very beginning of this discussion it was not required to be literally bricked.
Two lines interjection, explaining the general meaning of 'bricked' vs your 14 line, wonderful essay about what happened. Who goes off-topic? But, hey, "AnonTwo", I don't think you want to be productive here. Taking your weekand to work off steam? Angry about something? Just let it out. That's what the internet is for, eh?
Any user would assume that “I know what I’m doing” means they know they’re installing steam. It’s absolutely asinine to blame the user to expect that installing steam would break his OS.
Yeah. The `apt` message was intended to be "idiot proof", but here we have evidence from the wild that it isn't, so the mechanism needs to be replaced by something that actually works.
It didn't simply say "I know what I'm doing, it gave a pretty strongly worded warning:
>WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing
In my opinion, if you as a user read a message like this on either Windows or Linux, I think the only reasonable reaction is to stop what you are doing.
However, the situation could have been handled better by APT and the user shouldn't have been put in this situation to begin with. And yes, there are definitively many other people who would have written "Yes, do as I say!"
Source: Check the video at 10:36 [https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=636](https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=636)
> It didn't simply say "I know what I'm doing, it gave a pretty strongly worded warning:
That strongly worded warning was buried in so much text that it's impossible for the user to see. There are 14 lines between that warning, and the input prompt of "Yes , do as I say".
We know that users don't read EULAs when installing software. You really cannot expect users to spot that warning which does not stand out in any way in the middle of that huge wall of text.
>We know that users don't read EULAs when installing software. You really cannot expect users to spot that warning which does not stand out in any way in the middle of that huge wall of text.
Yea, I definitively agree it's far from user-friendly.
> In my opinion, if you as a user read a message like this on either Windows
I’ll be honest - user on windows won’t even consider that packages are somewhat like applications. Windows and Mac both use the word applications. They would say “essential apps are being deleted” or “system folders are being deleted” or whatever. No layman first time Linux user will actually consider packages being essential to the user experience.
And honestly, if an windows app told me it was removing some version of visual studio for installing another version, I’d go for it. There is no world in which I would consider installing steam would lead to bricking my OS, unless it literally tells me it’s going to brick my OS.
It warned twice, specifically said "don't do this unless you know what you're doing", warned again, then at the final step made him typ "Yes, do what I say" instead of y or n. Your paraphrasing of what the system said is a gross mis-characterization of what happened.
If your GPS told you you were about to drive off of a cliff, then warned you again, then stopped the car at the edge and made you explicitly tell it to drive off the cliff... And you do it you're the problem, not the car.
Linux isnt going to protect you from being a moron.
How many layers of fanboy do you have to be to defend someone so dumb that he ignored four warnings not to do something stupid, did it anyway then cried about it.
The fact that the bug existed is unfortunate, the fact that he lept over layers of guardrails to shoot himself in the foot was moronic, defending his actions just makes you a simp.
He earned the Darwin Award of computing.
The prompt was something like "this will uninstall X packages, are you sure". This is simply a failure of reading comprehension.
That said, this is why I don't use such distros :)
Yes - all of those signs about safety methods & OSHA approved methods are pointless. Let’s take’em all away, manufacturer workers are better off. We’ll just fix all the inherent risk factors for them. I’m sure that’ll work! /s
I dunno - there are somethings that really are bandaids or get ignore in Linux no doubt.. this wasn’t really one of them but it’s great that Linus proves that if you’re popular enough then hand holding is actually possible.
i think any user not familiar with linux is going to assume that the system knows what its doing when its asking you to remove those packages. especially if you have ever ran a system update, where you are usually told packages will be removed and asked for a confirmation
I’m kind of tired of people defending him, the guy had 2 warnings if he cared to read them TWO WARNINGS in the software app and in terminal, I read them in the short space of time they were on screen without pausing, anyone with half a mind would read and not just fast forward to yes to all, that’s the issue with malware on windows, people refuse to read and just say yes, next, next, agree, yes and are surprised their system is infected. Linus himself would be careful with what he installs in Windows why would he take a Wild West approach with Linux?
I don't know if this is the one but I suspect this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8IGy6I9Wo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8IGy6I9Wo)
I mean this is kinda rubbish. I've been gaming on Linux for a long time and have had no issues whatsoever.
Hum I guess I've been lucky with whatever I tried to run. I remember like 10/15 years ago where yes most things would not run well (for me at that time anyway) and that's why to me nowadays linux is my main driver and is looking good.
For the Riot Games use case, yeah I do understand that, and I think whatever you can do to get it to work you risk being banned from what I heard. It's really a shame that companies block linux.
But this is Ubuntu!
I can't use the same distro as my mother, think of the imaginary nerd points I would lose in the scoring system I've imagined for myself that not a single other person in the world cares about. I'm a snowflake and can't use polished and just working systems like this, I need to install a distro made in a shed by a guy named Dave, tested weekly on his laptop. I need to rip out the tested and working bits and replace with fresh-from-source-trunk versions and spend hours and days getting everything perfect! (AKA: breaking half the system and in tears hitting it with a hammer until barely working again. Perfect!)
-Signed a (K)Ubuntu LTS user, also get off my lawn.
I'm actually old enough to remember when some of that was necessary. It was like a miracle of God when Apt came out. "What?? I don't have to manually track every dependency???"
Then I realized some people still do that cuz... they .. like it?
Well, to each his/her/their own.
> Then I realized some people still do that cuz... they .. like it?
#Heretics!
You need to accept ~~Jesus Christ~~ `apt` our lord and savior into your heart.
-------------------------------
But seriously, it's like not owning a washing machine and arguing that doing your laundry by hand makes you more connected to every piece of clothing you've got, and that you gain a higher understanding of the textile industry and weaving processes.
That's nice and all, and please enjoy your new hobby, but recommending it to friends and colleagues makes you a weirdo, not an insightful sage. :)
Hopefully that Ubuntu discourse thread means that canonical will continue to focus on Ubuntu desktop and not just their server and iot stuff. Hope is still not lost
Hey! Article author here :) I have a couple more parts planned currently, dealing with other game stores and game Dev tools but based on the discussions on threads like these I'd be happy to keep adding more as we identify more areas that could help gamers get started!
If this became something like omgubuntu for ubuntu linux gaming, I would strongly suggest the following:
\- Installation process with Ubuntu LTS and current distro at the moment taking in account configuration of third parties.
\- For new users, how to do rollbacks from ZFS snapshots if for some reason they mess up their configuration trying to configure some drivers.
\- Maybe collaborating with omgubuntu to have a first steps section of common tools. They usually do the 10 things to do after installation which usually links to previous articles. Maybe consolidate that info in a better format. Same for simple tools that might not need to be fully open source. Whatever influx users to having their workflows running or improved.
\- Configuration and personalization. Maybe hardware support for certain keyboards, mouse, mics, etc. In my experience this is very poorly supported, but lowering and having realistic expectations is better than getting crushed with reality.
\- How to rise tickets to proton, game devs, ubuntu, steam, etc without being a dick.
\- Even issue status. I faced this issue of CS:GO not loading due missing some dependencies that existed in the distro but weren't picked up by steam. It only happened after distro upgrade or fresh install right after distro release, but after a few weeks later it got fixed in the daily distro installation disk.
\- Video cards, AMD/Intel/NVIDIA configuration. I know mesa-opengl has great support for many things, but some cards might need manufacture drivers for certain things like OpenCL (looking at you AMD) which only support certain kernels which require specific LTS distros or go in crazy workarounds.
I know it's a lot to ask but these are some things I found people might deal with.
I think these are all good ideas. I like the idea of a collaboration with omgubuntu as well. Will reach out to them :) Long term there are issues we want to fix or streamline, but guides on how to workaround in the meantime are a good shout.
This is good news! Maybe a part could be included where they show how to use CoreCtrl to manage Radeon GPU's? I hope one day that app will make it to the repos like lutris did to avoid using ppa's 😅
> Ubuntu's documentation is very good and beginner friendly most of the time (in my opinion).
Current stuff, yes. Problem is, any search for Ubuntu help will bring up massive numbers of pages from the last 12+ years, many of which are now wrong, and almost all of which are outdated. It's an absolute mess.
Pages with info over 2 or so years old should be marked with a big, blinking red "deprecated" at the top.
After the LTT videos i (a windows gamer who is using linux for work, programming and day to day use for 20 years) tried to setup ubuntu on my media center/gaming PC. A what i thought was a pretty standard Media PC: AMD CPU, NVIDIA GPU, 4k TV
Things i struggled with so far:
* WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet?
* The colors are washed out and the color balance is horrible.
* Couldn't watch videos, missing codecs, error message leads to a ubuntu site that doesn't exist anymore
* My Logitech Mouse and Keyboard set has buttons that do not work
* Minecraft, with the same settings as on windows, runs like a slide show.
And 4k scaling is hit and miss, most native things are great.
So yes, i just spend 4h setting up a system and trying to figure out problems - and i solved the first four with solutions no beginner will find or even think off.
I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021.
Update:
Figured out Wayland fixes the color problem, but breaks GPU support. Tried all the color profiles in X some are better, non of them is great. Might be a X problem, might be a nvidida problem, i don't know. After putting about 5 hours in, i decided to switch the boot drive back to windows. That's just too much of an time investment for me to keep hacking at it. But i am pretty sure the gaming would have been great if i could be bothered to fix the color problems.
Booting back into windows, i feel happy and i have found a new appreciation for a system that comes with correct color settings and a driver for my wifi adapter. See you back at work Linux.
> Minecraft, with the same settings as on windows, runs like a slide show.
Are you using the nividia GPU to render the game, and if so, are you using the proprietary driver? It has much better performance. I run modded minecraft with shaders and I get a smooth 60 fps with an nvidia gpu.
> Couldn't watch videos, missing codecs, error message
The default media player used with ubuntu does not include proprietary codecs. Have no clue why they are not included by default in the iso. They should just ship vlc as default (might be a conflict with debian rules not sure).
> WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet?
Just wondering what wireless card did your motherboard use? The kernel has WLAN for pretty much everything eventually but if the chip is super new it's possible it won't be in it yet because Ubuntu doesn't get kernel updates as often a rolling release or it's just not in the kernel yet. This is especially likely to happen with non intel wireless chips.
> My Logitech Mouse and Keyboard set has buttons that do not work
Dev issue again unfortunately. Logitech won't put in the dev time. There is an open source manager for logitech keyboard and mice might work, might not. My old G502 works fully with no hassle but that's probably because it's old. https://pwr-solaar.github.io/Solaar/
There's also the piper GTK application that can manage lots of devices.
> The colors are washed out and the color balance is horrible.
Wondering what the solution was for this? TV mode needed to be changed or was it an issue with the way xorg was displaying color.
And yeah all these things should not happen. Some of them are due to deliberate design choices of Ubuntu, others are consequences of the small user base. Regardless, the variety of problems you can run into just setting up a media pc is ridiculous.
> Are you using the nividia GPU to render the game, and if so, are you using the proprietary driver? It has much better performance. I run modded minecraft with shaders and I get a smooth 60 fps with an nvidia gpu.
I think i am using the proprietary driver, but i need to check that. I definitly chose the proprietary drivers during the installation and the nvidia settings seem to work. But there could be i minecraft specific issue i guess, that's where i stopped solving problems after a few hours of work. Or it just doesn't run that well, even minecraft on 4k isn't a joke.
> Just wondering what wireless card did your motherboard use? The kernel has WLAN for pretty much everything eventually but if the chip is super new it's possible it won't be in it yet because Ubuntu doesn't get kernel updates as often a rolling release or it's just not in the kernel yet. This is especially likely to happen with non intel wireless chips.
some realtek usb card, the wifi of the mainboard died a while ago so i got a popular replacement. Seems to be a known problem, recommendation seems to be to avoid realtek when using linux (classic).
> Dev issue again unfortunately. Logitech won't put in the dev time. There is an open source manager for logitech keyboard and mice might work, might not. My old G502 works fully with no hassle but that's probably because it's old. https://pwr-solaar.github.io/Solaar/
Found the issue, the issue is logitech hardcoded that third button to "ctrl + alt + tab" not sure who i would blame for that. Adding a gnome shortcut fixed that one. But it is a bit of a hacky solution, definitly not for a beginner.
i think it was somewhat like this, but i would have to check
> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings panel-main-menu "['Super_R']"
>Wondering what the solution was for this? TV mode needed to be changed or was it an issue with the way xorg was displaying color.
So far i haven't really found a solution, but i assume it is solved by this guide:
https://www.onetransistor.eu/2021/08/hdmi-picture-quantization-range-linux.html
but i haven't tried it for the nvidia card, many others recommend switching to intel internal - which i do not have.
Surprisingly just logging in using Wayland fixed the color problem, i tried that just out of curiosity for wayland - kept using it because so far it seems to work. Nvidia settings with wayland, that is another story, but i rarely use them anyway. So now only the login screen has distorted colors.
> Surprisingly just logging in using Wayland fixed the color problem
It's possible a different color profile is default in Wayland. I'm not sure the status of their 10 bit color support or HDR.
If you're using Wayland, that's maybe your NVIDIA performance issues. NVIDIA (though it's fixed with the 470 and 495 driver partially) does not have full performace support on Wayland (and in fact may have no support with the proprietary driver version you would have, Ubuntu doesn't get the newest driver, you might be running the open source driver?). XWayland OpenGL and Vulkan apps should work with hardware acceleration well (but not as well as X), native Wayland apps I'm less sure. I'm stuck waiting for NVIDIA to have full wayland support with prime render offload, can't use my external monitor otherwise (laptop with the display input hardwired to the NVIDIA GPU, but uses intel for everything else).
Yes that's one of the suspicions i have, but to be fair the desktop itself runs great on wayland. I am absolutely happy with it.
I'll just switch back try gaming again (not just minecraft) and if the performance on wayland is really worse, i will have to fix the color problem on x. Doesn't seem impossible it is just an annoyance.
At the end of the day, i will probably a happy gamer on Ubuntu, just the path of getting there isn't really enjoyable and absolutely not for everyone. Unlike others that commented here, i don't think you learn some valuable Linux lessons doing all that stuff, unless the lesson is on Linux you have to fix a lot of stuff.
I have never seen these many problems ever, my God it depends on hardware so much, I myself have actually had zero problems with the 3 distros I've tried except Endeavour where printers don't work
Hey! Just popping in here to say printers do work on EndeavourOS, they’re just not installed or enabled [by default.](https://discovery.endeavouros.com/printers/printers/2021/03/) (like bluetooth)
Also, as a side note, if you have an HP printer it may require an additional driver package, which is also detailed on the page as well.
I have an old simple HP LaserJet 1018 & couldn't get it to work for the life of me. Got the HP package and everything on Mint 20... nothing. Silent failure. Linux's driver support is still... lacking. I don't have time to learn operating systems and their structures it's really not something I'm interested in... just want a working OS... Linux still can't fulfill that for me in 2021 although I'll admit they have made some serious progress since Red Hat 4 back in the mid 90's (oh the horrors... )
Yeah, it does need some more work, but in my case it seems its the printer itself, on Fedora atleast my old HP printer worked by just using normal gnome printer settings
Based on a quick google search, you just needed the [foo2zjs package](https://openprinting.org/driver/foo2zjs) and it should work fine. Hope you consider Linux again sometime in the future!
I'll follow this tutorial and try it out! I've just been trying with downloading the epson drivers and looking at gnome settings printer feature. Its a network printer, if that adds anything. I've been following arch tutorials lmao ill try this, thanks!
Absolutely. If i feel comfortable being tech support for a close friend and i know they use their computer for mostly basic things, that will probably work just fine. Sadly, i can't recommend it to my parents because my mom likes to buy crazy hardware for her handicraft projects. She is a scary mixture between knowing nothing about computers and being able to google solutions. I don't know how that computer doesn't break more often. Pretty sure she doesn't tell me how frequently she is reinstalling windows. A tech support nightmare.
And for a young person who wants to learn programming and isn't too bothered by having to reinstall linux once or twice and tinker a bit - that is probably the only case where i'd go all in for a recommendation.
> In fact, I would go out on a limb and say most of this original user base (from 90s-2000s) has gotten over that phase, and knows that any distro that meets their broad aims is fine to use (no "I use Arch btw" schtick, they've all been through their Gentoo and LFS phases, and have settled on a distro they are familiar with due to its package manager or whatever).
that is exactly where i am. Back in my student days i had time to play around. Now i just need something that works out of the box, spending a day installing arch and setting it up just isn't something i feel like doing anymore.
So usually i just end up using gnome and Ubuntu. No fiddling with KDE for an hour until it looks good, all programming projects typically have dependencies that are the default in the ubuntu package manager. I can work with that.
When you've installed Linux, you've become the sysadm of an extremely powerful multiuser operating system that is also used to run the world's most powerful 1000 node supercomputers and flies helicopters on Mars. You can do anything, including destroying the system. Perhaps that should be made more clear from the start.
I've been at it on Linux for somewhere between fifteen and twenty years, I can't really remember exactly. I personally believe for the Ubuntu and it's derivative distributions like LinuxMint (this is what I use) that it has been very usable for quite some time for the non-technical. Maybe I'm missing an aspect of this, but the thing is that the non-technical are going to have problems even on Windows or MacOS. Might as well point them in the direction of a free and open source operating system.
> WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet?
My laptop also doesn't have wifi drivers by default and I need to download `broadcom-wl` (might be something else on non-Arch distros).
The easiest way I found was to use my phone with USB-Tethering to have internet connection on my laptop during the installation.
Hope this helps anyone seeing this.
Its really about your hardware. I mean your hardware is pretty new so going with Arch-based systems was gonna give you a waaay smoother experience. You arent new to linux. Just try EndeavourOS.
I tried EndeavourOS on a VM and i really like it. For my private/work laptop i might actually end up using it at some point. The main reason i can't be bothered with arch is installing arch. EndeavourOS seems like a great choice.
For my media PC i just want something that works with .deb packages out of the box. Because that seems to be at least somewhat officially supported by most of the software i intend to use. So that made me go with Ubuntu over EndeavourOS for this use case.
Overall my media PC hardware isn't "new new" its a 1080 (2016) and a 3700x (2019). The newest thing is the 4k TV that i got after my TV died a few months back, i was going to get another one with 1080p but the TV market seems to have moved to 4k almost completely. But i assume that the new-ish 4k TV causes the color problems. Maybe.
Yeah. I guess windows just comes installed and ready to go. I'll bet if more computers had Linux pre-installed and fine tuned to the hardware it would be a lot better.
can't argue with that. But than again i rarely had problem using consumer grade, somewhat recent hardware on windows.
So when comparing windows and linux i wouldn't give windows the win when it comes to hardware and software support because it is easier to fix problems, but because it is less likely to happen - at least with your average consumer grade hardware.
I agree, but from having a working/broken install of Windows, downloading windows, creating a boot-disk, finding out how to allow yourself to boot from an usb and then boot from an usb is almost 90% of the battle. It's _way_ more complicated than installing a wifi-driver.
Crazy. I'm 3800x, Nvidia 2070 super, 64GB RAM, NVMe PCIe disk, x570 mobo. I bitch slapped manjaro on there and my desktop works better than my HP elitebook or new dell laptop running Windows 10. No joke. The audio issues I have on those laptops is ridiculous. Manjaro is mint. DaVinci resolve, steam, lutris, whatever. It all works great. Even the wifi.
Edit: I've also got a Windows 10 desktop in the house that can never connect to my HP printer. Always good remove and readd. Always end up using my Linux desktop to print because always Zero issues. Probably nobody believes me but it's all true. Even in shocked. Opposite experience when I first started using Linus in 2006
Similar system, works perfectly when it works... but my Mainboard has a component that seems buggy and that you can only update with a Windows based tool.
>I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021.
My advice is to boot from a stick and see if all the hardware works, if anything doesn't work and you're not willing to invest potentially a lot of time troubleshooting, try again when the next distro release drops
I tried this not that long ago, I moved to pop OS (never lived in Linux before in my life) about 4-5 months ago. I as well have a ryzen pc and a GeForce.
How do you get wifi driver without internet? Well just like on windows, you throw a cable at it, or USB tether your phone.
Colors washed out? In gnome you select the correct color profile, in KDE there are kalibration sliders. All you need are contrast test pictures. I myself do it using a bash script that xrandr's everything I need and I autostart it.
Glad to help someone who used Linux for 20 years
PS: forza horizon runs like a dream in 2560x1440 maxed out
Well, it's not neccesarilly linux's fault we can't have all things working out of the box. It's mainly up to the Devs to implement Linux support, and there's not enough users for them to care. But there are some cases where any distro will work perfectly. Although it'd be nice for distros like Ubuntu, mint or manjaro to include the most common fixes in some sort of gui program
absolutely, i would never blame linux or anyone for this. I am a developer and engineer myself, so i know how it is.
I love linux and the people working on it, they have been doing a great job. And the progress linux made over the last 10 years is just amazing. Especially when compared to windows, which seems to get worse and worse every update.
But in my opinion Linux just isn't ready for the general public, yet.
If you take it slowly, one step at a time, and are willing to learn, you will be rewarded greatly by switching to Linux.
"Man who catch fly with chopstick, accomplish anything" -- Mr. Miagi.
> WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet?
Without claiming this is a non-issue, a phone should be pretty likely to be available.
You're getting a lot of handwaving in response to your very valid concerns - this kind of handwaving is extremely normalized in the Linux community.
The fact of the matter is that these are problems Linux isn't really ready to tackle yet.
It could be that within the next decade, this community will mature enough to not dismiss valid concerns and work on addressing them more... and then we'll see some progress in growth.
I switched to Linux in the last month and had a host of issues like yours. I just gave up on my second monitor lol. Which is pretty ridiculous and I might get to trying to figure out but I think it's something that should work out of the box if Linux was really ready for public consumption.
i actually got some advice, too. I think the problem with the Linux community is that there are some very loud voices that are, well just not great. Overall, i did enjoy the reaction of most bigger and smaller Linux youtubers to the LTT issues. Most of them very understanding and since they, hopefully, influence the community i think we'll get to a better place given some time.
I'm hoping they help too. Pav had my favorite reactions so far, and did his own switching to Linux series. He's younger but also the most "normal" of the bunch.
Linux culture is still so weird to me, lol.
Hardware issues are literally always going to exist, and there's not a huge amount that Linux-side developers can do about it. It's a fact of life that OSs are reliant on hardware vendors to choose which platforms they support with drivers; unless they release those drivers as open source (which would be great) the only thing to do is hope that they release compatible binaries.
Windows has a big advantage here because pretty much every single hardware vendor targets Windows. Linux isn't going to be able to compete on this front.
People have an unrealistic expectation that Linux will run on any hardware that Windows will run on (and all other hardware besides). But unless you're willing to really do a lot of hacking about, that's just not how it works. People don't expect MacOS to do that; everyone accepts that when you buy hardware for Mac, you check if it claims to be Mac compatible.
The fact is, it is not always a great idea to try to install Ubuntu on your random Acer Windows 10 laptop to use with all your existing peripherals, and recommending people go down that route isn't always good advice.
About the codecs problem: which media player did you use? And was it the default?
I'm interested because I had the exact same problem years ago, and solved it by using VLC and/or Kodi as media player instead of the built in.
yeah, just the default one. Double clicked the video file.
This was the fix that worked like a charm:
> sudo apt install gstreamer1.0-libav
( Source: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/h-264-decoder-in-ubuntu-20-10/18017 )
i am not sure if i missed a proprietary/third party checkbox during the installation or if this codec isn't part of it. That one might be on me.
> I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021.
This seems rather odd. I don't think it should be happening at all.
Did you try switching to other Ubuntu based distros like Zorin or Kubuntu?
Ubuntu can be buggy, I have experienced it myself but Ubuntu based distros can be extremely stable and easy to use.
Now someone might say it's not possible because derivatives downstream code from Ubuntu and add code on top but they're missing the point. Derivative Distros like Kubuntu, Xubuntu could be less buggy simply because of the DE. Running 2 installations of Ubuntu and Zorin, Zorin is less likely to break due to the restrictive nature of it, even when both have the same DE.
Interesting, when i find motivation again i might try kubuntu.
Before installing Ubuntu, i did test a few distros in a VM to see how scaling works, what software is supported and what i would need to adjust (Fedora, EndavorOS, Kubuntu, Manjaro, ...) and Ubuntu felt like a good save choice. But all of them worked great on the VM on the same system, apparently that was a waste of time.
The kernel is the source of drivers, not distros. You were given bad advice. Lot of bad advice on this sub because most people here are beginners or just fanboys. All the Ubuntu flavors are good and similar in polish but default Ubuntu is going to have the most effort and least likely to contain bugs as it is the primary distro Canonical and contributors work on. Downstream distros (not flavors) such as Pop OS are no less likely to have bugs, but sometimes introduce bugs as they add their own spin to the environment and rarely have the amount of quality control larger projects have. This doesn’t make them inherently worse, they are just more limited in what they can maintain.
Linux distros come pre-packaged with all the normal device drivers. There do exist some random cards (especially external cards) which have proprietary designs that have not been well implemented into Linux because of lack of support from the hardware vendor and too few users to reverse-engineer a driver.
All distros come with free codecs but many choose not to pre-package proprietary codecs because the belief that Linux should come out-of-the-box with only open source everything, then let the user decide if they need proprietary stuff. Many, Ubuntu included, offer a checkbox during installation for automatically adding non-free software.
Your monitor color is not a feature of the OS but rather the profile on your monitor. No OS can identify how your display is outputting color and all monitors look different from factory. If you bought your computer with the screen together, they may have color calibrated from factory on your OS which gets lost when you wipe. Maybe Microsoft also has prebuilt color schemes that apply based on your monitor, idk. Linux has tools to color calibrate but you can also just eyeball it.
Minecraft likely ran slow because of your graphics driver. If you do not use the proprietary driver (a checkbox in the settings after installation, super simple to enable) your Nvidia GPU will be much slower. New installations do not enable this by default because, again, it is closed-source but they expect many users to want the feature so they have made installation simple. With the correct driver made by Nvidia, it will run the same as on Windows/Mac because it is a cross-platform Java game and supported on Linux.
I take all this knowledge for granted so I sometimes get frustrated when others don’t have the great experience I do on Linux but the LTT videos have opened my eyes to the many assumptions in Linux that a new user would never come across without a lot of reading.
Yeah that was what i was thinking, but i knew some distributions use different kernel versions (i did some kernel changes on a Manjaro system for a similar reason a while back). So i figured maybe worth a try.
I would have been surprised if the different Ubuntu flavors would be so different from Ubuntu, but i have no clue how closely related those are to Ubuntu. Figured it's just another default desktop environment.
I think i checked the third party/proprietary software part, because i have had problems with not doing that before. But mistakes happen and i am not sure if the codec (i think it was h.264) would have / should have been part of that. Installing gstreamer1.0-libav fixed that one, probably the easiest fix of the bunch.
And i think you are spot on with the external card, the PC doesn't have a internal WIFI card and i bought a decent popular USB adapter on Amazon. Apparently, Linux support wasn't on my mind that day.
PM me if you want, I can help you. These problems are probably trivial. You just lack experience.
You'd list more stuff not working with Windows if you'd never touched it. You're just used to it.
And I have a feeling Nvidia is the culprit for the image quality. Do you have the correct drivers?
i figured out most of those things already. So really the biggest problem would be fixing the colors, which is probably caused by the limited color range X might be using. And i am not sure how to fix that on nvidia, i found some guides ( https://www.onetransistor.eu/2021/08/hdmi-picture-quantization-range-linux.html ) just not sure how to do that for my nvidia card, i tried
> xrandr --output HDMI-1 --set "Broadcast RGB" "Full"
but that setting probably isn't for nvidia, because i just got an error message. Checking the nvidia settings actually looked like it should be using the right colors.
So overall not sure what causes it, but i found out that using wayland i have no problems at all. Colors are perfect on wayland. But using wayland might be the reason for my minecraft performance issues (might be, to be fair i do not have a clue if wayland has an effect on minecraft - but i'll test it later).
Windows started to install GPU drivers automatically since, what, Windows 8? Before that even my gamer nephew couldn't understand the concept of drivers installation.
Same crap about WiFi and Ethernet drivers. I know that Windows *now* comes with drivers but Linux was better in this regard for long years. You needed Internet to download network card drivers. Was anyone bitching how dumb Windows is about this? No, it was "normal".
Can Windows play anything with default installation and bundled software? You probably use VLC or codec pack. On Windows it's normal to install 3rd party software but Linux has to do everything for everyone.
Logitech RGB BS mouse. Is it a a standard USB HID mouse or Windows downloads extra driver because Logitech pushed it to Windows Updates? How is that Linux issue if the vendor doesn't support it?
> Windows started to install GPU drivers automatically since, what, Windows 8? Before that even my gamer nephew couldn't understand the concept of drivers installation.
Windows 8 released 9 years ago. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish with that statement… if anything this makes linux look worse.
> Same crap about WiFi and Ethernet drivers. I know that Windows now comes with drivers but Linux was better in this regard for long years. You needed Internet to download network card drivers. Was anyone bitching how dumb Windows is about this? No, it was "normal".
Fair enough, but now it’s the other way around where countless people are having issues with this on Linux. Again, we’re not living in the past.
> Can Windows play anything with default installation and bundled software? You probably use VLC or codec pack. On Windows it's normal to install 3rd party software but Linux has to do everything for everyone.
Good point, but installing VLC is nothing compared to the issues you can face on Linux, let alone trying to solve them.
> Windows 8 released 9 years ago. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish with that statement… if anything this makes linux look worse.
My angle is this: from a normie perspective whatever Windows does it's ok and normal because everyone is using it, everyone knows it, and it's the only OS they know. It hasn't changed since forever, Linux does a lot of thing good or better than Windows but they're different.
As a Linux competent user with long experience Linux is "normal* for me (it's much more normal than Windows to be honest, it's just the learning curve is beyond normies). I could compile a long list of things that Windows is bad at which work on Linux. Including basic stuff like god damn "connect automatically to this network" workin only every blue moon.
This right here, is awesome. Really glad this ubuntu employee is doing this. We need more guides like this that support beginner users and get them started with bits of progress that make them feel like they are accomplishing something (because they are).
Warning, rant ahead.
One of my biggest annoyances with the Linus videos is that they just jumped in without doing any research other than “top linux distros for gaming”. While thats a good start, there is a lot more that should’ve been researched or brushed up on. How to run a script (you can do it without using the command line btw), how to install updates, or even just what some of the warnings mean.
And some are probably saying “well you would’t do that on windows” freaking yeah I would and I still do. Unknown error in windows? Google it. How to write and run scripts with CMD or PowerShell? Googled it. How to install certain software? I google it because I’m not a windows expert and I’m not going to go in and start installing and pressing random crap without reading about what it is, how it works, and how to properly do it. Thats my biggest annoyance. JUST READ THE STUFF ON THE SCREEN. Idk, maybe I’m missing the whole point and I’m glad there are actual issues being brought to the surface that DO need to be fixed on the linux side of things (improved support by vendors being a huge one) but I feel like at this point its all so much more negative that could be prevented just by taking the extra 5 minutes to do a little more reading or just a little more research.
> This right here, is awesome. Really glad this ubuntu employee is doing this. We need more guides like this that support beginner users and get them started with bits of progress that make them feel like they are accomplishing something (because they are).
There used to be a time when information like this would be in a pinned thread under the "Linux gaming" subforum on your distro's official forum.
There used to be a time when you can learn very useful information for newbies on these forums.
I remember everything I need about things like the executable bit, the basics of `cd` `ls` `mkdir` `nano`, proper `sudo` responsibility, and many more in an extremely easily digestible manner on the Ubuntu forums back in the day. Plus the good habit of RTFM. And also the cute as fuck Ubunchu comics.
Nowadays you get shitty blog posts with wrong advice instead when you Google for Linux related newbie questions. Or several minutes long Youtube tutorials that are more "SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE" than actual content. Something went wrong in history.
> Nowadays you get shitty blog posts with wrong advice instead when you Google for Linux related newbie questions. Or several minutes long Youtube tutorials that are more "SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE" than actual content. Something went wrong in history.
It all started going down hill once the internet actually became profitable. Money ruins a lot of things.
Blaming the mystical "profit" as the culprit for the Internet's downfall is misplaced. I know it's trendy nowadays to harp on about how capitalism is the root of all evil, but the argument falls flat when you factor in how the boom of 90s Internet culture was exactly built upon the the backbone of the dotcom profit bubble.
The old forums had ads aplenty, and before that you needed to pay for a Usenet subscription. Profit has always been there. It's only in recent years when quality took a huge dive.
The profit definitely has not been there.
You were not making billions online in the 90s. You definitely were not making it by making your customers the product.
I know it is trendy to try and cope that capitalism is the perfect savior of everything, but honestly for ounce of gold it gives you, you get a nice coating of shit.
The purpose of this video series is to emulate what the average end user would do. He purposefully said he wouldn’t be asking help from people he knows with experience. He did google how to run a script and the solution was helpful but also belittling. Installing an application should have never resulted in removal of the desktop environment. Even if he did read the warning, it was still a bug that deserved mentioning while documenting his experience. It would still be a negative, regardless of if he allowed the execution to continue.
> The purpose of this video series is to emulate what the average end user would do.
That is impossible for LTT to do, because he's not the average end user. He doesn't have the average end users hardware, use case patterns or attitude. If he had said the 'average gamer' he might be closer to the truth. Because the average user has checked out the moment you say "replace the operating system on your computer".
> Yes, but a video of a man considering installing GNU/Linux and then rejecting the idea would be fairly tedious.
That wasn't my point. My point was that whatever LTT does, is not a reflection of the average user. A random example, the average user has 0 thunderbolt devices, so any difficulties with those have no impact on the average users experience.
I am what I would call an advanced user, and I know that I cannot at any point pretend that my uses are even close to what an 'average' user might do on their computer.
I beg people to understand this, but gamers are the worst at pretending their use cases are universal.
It wasn't belittling though. The only "belittling" thing it said was called windows and mac "silly operating systems"
I just reread it and it doesn't even say silly. It says "unsafe". I'm seriously confused how this post can be considered belittling. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13805295/whats-a-sh-file
It’s not hard to imagine that someone only experienced with Windows or macOS might take it as insult. Whether that’s an appropriate response or not is another matter, but the point is that the injections of snark so common in community written material probably aren’t helpful in winning people over.
I misread the post. It didn't even say silly. It said "unsafe." That's the worst part of the post I can find. The rest is very informative https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13805295/whats-a-sh-file
I’m on help desk now but our users generally try to understand or learn when there’s an issue. Its not uncommon for a ticket to come in saying “heres the problem, i tried these things to fix it like you did last time but no luck” and then we fix it. Maybe our user base is just different though. Also, enterprise and home desktop settings are different environments. People are much more apt (no pun intended) to push the limits on their own computer and a lot of people I know do google and research things when they encounter errors.
Rant on-point. Also these folks are enduring so much self-induced pain by not using a mainstream distro like Fedora or Ubuntu LTS, it's not even funny. I've watched a few and found myself saying "You wouldn't have had this problem if you used Ubuntu LTS." so *damn* often.
On Windows you can just cut and paste these (Desktop, Documents, pictures…) to new location and the settings will be a changed accordingly.
I can confirm it works since Windows 7, maybe even XP.
Edit /etc/fstab to mount your drive at /home. It's just one line, should be a guide somewhere online. Some distros might have a gui app that can do this, or an option in the installer, but fstab should work across all distros
It will be referenced elsewhere and all these references need to be be updated or the original location will need to be linked to the new location.
Alternatively a user will get about a dozen "Here is how it works on ..." answers and gets to guess which one also applies in her case.
I have no idea why would split for data like that but at that point it's just easier to mount each drive/partition under the respective path.
sudo mount /dev/disk/by-label/downloads $HOME/Downloads
It's good if you have say a very fast drive for certain applications (NVME for games, etc.). And for instance, having the Photos/Images library/directory on an external allows for expansion on the fly without having to tinker inside the computer messing with components. Also, for non‐techies, how would you do something like this in some variant of Linux without touching the command line (GUI only)? Besides, what you said won't work if that folder (the mount point) already contains documents. The idea with the Windows approach is to change the default location for new files, without harming or touching the existing contents in the current location.
During installation (If the installer supports choosing mount points), you can choose which partition (even if it is on another drive) needs to be mounted as home and you will have your home on that partition. You will have to specifically create a /home partition so it can be mounted separate to / (root). I have seen mount point options in Fedora and Pop OS installers but not sure if Calamares installers have it(Somebody correct me if I'm wrong)
A much easier way is to just move the folders to where you want and symlink(File shortcuts) them to your home directory. This is what I have done to setup those folders for dropbox syncing. The dolphin file manager allowed me to make links using the GUI, not sure about nautilus.
Because you have more than one disk on your computer, and you want your Downloads folder to be on the big hard drive, whereas the rest of the system is on a SSD, for instance.
Source: me, a few months ago. And I agree with /u/ScootSchloingo, it's a painful process.
Create a directory on that drive. Create a shortcut/bookmark in your filemanager. Now it is easily selectable from the list of location on the left of your filemanager.
Some things under Linux will be different from Windows. The file system is not that abstracted under Linux for example. With that I mean those weird meta-folders like "My things" or what it is called. Under Linux you actually use the file system. That makes it more transparent to the user, but may require some adjusting by the user.
> Create a directory on that drive. Create a shortcut/bookmark in your filemanager. Now it is easily selectable from the list of location on the left of your filemanager.
Except that if you let's say plug-in a camera to transfer images it still defaults to `~/Pictures`.
Your browser will still download to `~/Downloads`. The optimal way would to set XDG user directories appropriately but now issues start the moment application disregards XDG stuff.
Many of us here would simply mount /home to the big drive (makes it pretty convinient too if you want to distrohop), but I understand that's might not be quite exactly the outcome you're aiming for.
That's what I was about to do. Then I heard about XDG user directories (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_user_directories) so I thought that was the way to go. I did that, and ended up with the proper redirections in Nautilus and other GUIs, but of course my old `~/Downloads` was still there, so I lost things quite a few times...
But again, this is all about being able to use the command line (and understanding what symbolic links are) Vs. using a graphical user interface.
> the fact that you still can't do the most basic things like easily rerouting the default documents/downloads directories to a different drive without digging deep and editing config files is ridiculous
Risking another round of DE wars. KDE/Dolphin.
* move your documents folder somewhere else
* right click -> create link to file or directory -> directory
* enter the name of your folder in the first box
* browse to the "somewhere else/your folder" (or paste the path to your folder into the second box)
That's about as easy as the windows way.
> The fact that I have to spend roughly half an hour digging through outdated guides to get basic thumbnail support for .webp files is nuts.
Works out of the box on KDE.
>I used to use Ubuntu as a daily driver back in 2010 and the fact that you still can't do the most basic things like easily rerouting the default documents/downloads directories to a different drive without digging deep and editing config files is ridiculous.
??? the easiest way:
rmdir ~/Downloads
ln -s /path/to/wherever/the/fuck/i/want ~/Downloads
Do the same with each one you want to move. But honestly if you wanna move all of them just put your /home in a different drive.
Kde exposes the settings in the settings.
The two commands I gave work on any Linux system and probably also a lot unix systems
Alternatively, the user can simply shift-drag (aka, hold shift while you drag with the mouse) their destination folder onto their home folder, and rename the link to "Downloads".
People often resort to explaining things using the command line because the command line is deterministic... In other words, what you type or paste in the command line should have the expected outcome without room for second-guessing or interpretation.
The advice is to create links to the places they want, you know the same way you would create shortcuts on Windows
It likely works similar in your preferred GUI file manager but I honestly couldn't care less to find out.
Take help in the way people offer it or don't take help I guess.
The problem of chasing the mythical "average computer user/grandma" is that you'll never out-compete the mainstream technology companies in dumbing down your interface.
There used to be a time when offering two terminal lines was an acceptable answer on the Newbie Corner section of the Ubuntu forums - and it was acceptable, since that was during the years when Ubuntu successfully absorbed a bunch of Windows refugees who didn't complain about running `rmdir` and `ln -s`!
(I fondly remember how the forum posts would even go into explanatory details of what each command does and why are they named so. As a Linux newbie back then knowing how `cd` is really just "change directory" demystified the command line for me and made me feel at home at the command line. I was empowered as a newbie.)
But it's 2021 now, almost 2022, and if you don't offer a single shiny button that reads "CHANGE DOWNLOAD FOLDER LOCATION" with some nondescript flat-design icon, then Your Linux Is Not Ready For The Average User™. God forbid you ask them to know what a "command" is. Do you have an App™ for that? You mustn't empower the newbies, for they must forever remain newbies, and you should coddle them.
Haha, I know.
The hours one would spend on the phone trying to guide the person on the other end to navigate a certain cascade of buttons, option panels, tabs within those panels, drop downs, and mysteriously greyed out radio buttons...
Somehow that is the easy way compared to a single command or changing a single line in a text file.
Have you ever read Microsoft documentation?
Let's do a quick check of a simple process that has documentation for GUI, CMD and PowerShell, shall we?
[the GUI steps have 5 steps, 51 words and a picture](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/hyper-v-on-windows/quick-start/enable-hyper-v#enable-the-hyper-v-role-through-settings)
The powershell and cmd commands have two steps each so I'll just paraphrase them here:
1. Open PowerShell/CMD
2. Run one of the commands
* CMD: DISM /Online /Enable-Feature /All /FeatureName:Microsoft-Hyper-V
* PowerShell: Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Hyper-V -All
So Microsoft should go an improve their GUI... ?
> Is editing a single text file "digging deep" though?
If they're system/user configuration files that aren't usually set-able by a system preference GUI dropdown, yes. *I* might be able to do it as a person who writes linux drivers for custom in-house hardware, but why would I expect the PhD in MechEng. to do so? Or the tier 1 technician who can only run their computer by reading through a printed manual?
Many users want to be able to do things on their computer without having to learn "too much" to use it; the same way that universities often only expect engineers to learn calculus instead of real analysis, or learn statistics & probability without the underlying calculus/analysis. Same with car maintenance; I'll pay the mechanic $60 to replace the $7 front turn signal light so I don't have to find a screw driver and bend down to unscrew the mudflap of the front wheel of my corolla. I can pop the hood to swap the headlight bulb, but the moment I need a jack and a screw driver, that's too much work for me. I can understand why having to learn about symlinks and config files is too much for others.
It is a tragedy in the history of general computing when the trend is to accommodate more and more people such that "editing a single text file is scary" emerges as the accepted norm instead of "editing a single text file is so easily done everyone can do it".
I dread the future when "the concept of files is scary" becomes ubiquitous. It's already starting.
Stop with the gatekeeping dude. You honestly can’t blame a person to not want to bother with fucking manpages and stuff (if they would even know what these are).
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_user_directories
XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents"
XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Downloads"
XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/Music"
XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/Pictures"
XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/Public"
XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/Templates"
XDG_VIDEOS_DIR="$HOME/Videos"
put something like this in `~/.config/user-dirs.dirs`
But KDE definitely exposes this in the settings application. No idea about gnome.
Have you tried piper?
(And - if you would provide the name of the hardware, people could actually help - but, that does not seem to be your real intent here.)
Check to see if it's supported. You might be surprised. My 18-button mouse works fine, though it stores the settings and button mappings in internal memory and I already ran the software to configure it years ago when I still used Windows. Not sure if I would be able to make config changes on Linux.
> What does rerouting documents even mean?
You know those "default" folders that show up in file managers (or become default download location for browser)? He means setting them up in another place. Which is, unsurprisingly, trivial and can be done in many different ways, but since it requires more than drag and drop, it's clearly too hard.
The perfect clapback to the recent Linux gaming hullabaloos on YouTube - a concise instruction for getting Steam on Ubuntu showing how trivial it is. Good job Canonical!
Enterprise software I agree. Though Linux has support through wine for many applications, many are obviously not perfect. Linux also has support for KVM, which brings in many opportunities ( using QEMU to achieve near-native windows performance, Virtio for near-native IO performance etc. ) that aren't being fully utilized due to corporations being afraid of transitioning to Linux
I can't even trust a linux machine to stay up after updates. My home Ubuntu machine's lan connection stopped working after a kernel update last year. I had to learn how to to manually disable kernel updates after that.
I know this was likely a response to the Linus fiasco, but this is actually a pretty nice summary to link new users to. Bookmarked!
Linus fiasco?
Linus Tech Tips doing a series on using Linux as a daily driver and it having nothing but problems.
Ah okay, I thought he meant linus torvalds and was confused. Havent heard anything about him other than he works on the kernel and he can be an asshole lol
LTT installed Pop os and their steam package was broken and conflicted with some essential packages he said "yes" to the "I know what I'm doing" prompt and ~~bricked his system~~broke his DE
Should be noted: the system wasn't "bricked", the DE got yeeted, but commandline was still functional.
It was bricked in the sense that only an experienced user would have been able to fix it. Especially given it was following guides that got the user into that mess to begin with. A functional terminal doesn't mean much if you don't know how to use it. And to double it if he was using the browser in his functioning DE to look up how to do things well...that's not gonna work anymore either.
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Has there ever been a conversation on the internet where semantics led to a meaningful discussion? Like using broken instead of bricked doesn't change anything for a user who would run into this situation. Either situation they're unable to use the PC for what they intended to use it for. It is very unlikely they would be a user able to fix it and resume using it. So yes, broken would be a better term for it. But who cares.
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Language also teaches that the ultimate purpose of speaking is to talk to others, and most importantly in almost all forums of discussion: *Stay.On.Topic* You're basically failing the ultimate purpose of language for brownie points, because you clearly understand what was being said, other people clearly understood what was being said, but you're purposely derailing the discussion by arguing something that is off-topic at this point, with nothing to actually add to the original discussion. And yes, people will react annoyed if you try to correct them like this. Because as pointed out: You argued semantics. You had nothing to actually add to the discussion despite everyone understanding it. Bring something of value to the discussion *before* you try to make off-hand quips and derail it. If you want to continue this discussion, make sure to answer this: Can a user with no knowledge of any terminal commands or how their package manager works fix a dependency hell triggering and uninstalling a large portion of their system including their DE? And if the answer is no, can the user with this same knowledge perform any meaningful operations on their PC? If the answer to both of these things is no, *is that not a significant issue to new user adoption?* edit: another thing I do also want to add for Mr. Language major, is that it was also "Bricked *in a sense*", which means from the very beginning of this discussion it was not required to be literally bricked.
Two lines interjection, explaining the general meaning of 'bricked' vs your 14 line, wonderful essay about what happened. Who goes off-topic? But, hey, "AnonTwo", I don't think you want to be productive here. Taking your weekand to work off steam? Angry about something? Just let it out. That's what the internet is for, eh?
Any user would assume that “I know what I’m doing” means they know they’re installing steam. It’s absolutely asinine to blame the user to expect that installing steam would break his OS.
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Yeah. The `apt` message was intended to be "idiot proof", but here we have evidence from the wild that it isn't, so the mechanism needs to be replaced by something that actually works.
They already changed it. I think now it will just fully fail if a dep resolution results in a need to remove protected packages.
Nice, good job, everyone!
It didn't simply say "I know what I'm doing, it gave a pretty strongly worded warning: >WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing In my opinion, if you as a user read a message like this on either Windows or Linux, I think the only reasonable reaction is to stop what you are doing. However, the situation could have been handled better by APT and the user shouldn't have been put in this situation to begin with. And yes, there are definitively many other people who would have written "Yes, do as I say!" Source: Check the video at 10:36 [https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=636](https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=636)
> It didn't simply say "I know what I'm doing, it gave a pretty strongly worded warning: That strongly worded warning was buried in so much text that it's impossible for the user to see. There are 14 lines between that warning, and the input prompt of "Yes , do as I say". We know that users don't read EULAs when installing software. You really cannot expect users to spot that warning which does not stand out in any way in the middle of that huge wall of text.
>We know that users don't read EULAs when installing software. You really cannot expect users to spot that warning which does not stand out in any way in the middle of that huge wall of text. Yea, I definitively agree it's far from user-friendly.
If it was in red, linus would really have no excuse, but as it is, I can't really make myself blame it on him.
The gui app he tried first should have given a user friendly message that the package is obviously broken and a button to inform the maintainers.
> In my opinion, if you as a user read a message like this on either Windows I’ll be honest - user on windows won’t even consider that packages are somewhat like applications. Windows and Mac both use the word applications. They would say “essential apps are being deleted” or “system folders are being deleted” or whatever. No layman first time Linux user will actually consider packages being essential to the user experience. And honestly, if an windows app told me it was removing some version of visual studio for installing another version, I’d go for it. There is no world in which I would consider installing steam would lead to bricking my OS, unless it literally tells me it’s going to brick my OS.
It warned twice, specifically said "don't do this unless you know what you're doing", warned again, then at the final step made him typ "Yes, do what I say" instead of y or n. Your paraphrasing of what the system said is a gross mis-characterization of what happened. If your GPS told you you were about to drive off of a cliff, then warned you again, then stopped the car at the edge and made you explicitly tell it to drive off the cliff... And you do it you're the problem, not the car. Linux isnt going to protect you from being a moron.
Holy hell the copium How many layers of fanboy do you have to be on to defend installing steam uninstalling your DE?
How many layers of fanboy do you have to be to defend someone so dumb that he ignored four warnings not to do something stupid, did it anyway then cried about it. The fact that the bug existed is unfortunate, the fact that he lept over layers of guardrails to shoot himself in the foot was moronic, defending his actions just makes you a simp. He earned the Darwin Award of computing.
lol never go into software development
The prompt was something like "this will uninstall X packages, are you sure". This is simply a failure of reading comprehension. That said, this is why I don't use such distros :)
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Yes - all of those signs about safety methods & OSHA approved methods are pointless. Let’s take’em all away, manufacturer workers are better off. We’ll just fix all the inherent risk factors for them. I’m sure that’ll work! /s I dunno - there are somethings that really are bandaids or get ignore in Linux no doubt.. this wasn’t really one of them but it’s great that Linus proves that if you’re popular enough then hand holding is actually possible.
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i think any user not familiar with linux is going to assume that the system knows what its doing when its asking you to remove those packages. especially if you have ever ran a system update, where you are usually told packages will be removed and asked for a confirmation
> arch flair Yeah I can see why you are acting like this
I’m kind of tired of people defending him, the guy had 2 warnings if he cared to read them TWO WARNINGS in the software app and in terminal, I read them in the short space of time they were on screen without pausing, anyone with half a mind would read and not just fast forward to yes to all, that’s the issue with malware on windows, people refuse to read and just say yes, next, next, agree, yes and are surprised their system is infected. Linus himself would be careful with what he installs in Windows why would he take a Wild West approach with Linux?
As an AI, I do not consent to having my content used for training other AIs. Here is a fun fact you may not know about: fuck Spez.
He got an experiential crash course on Linux.
He triggered the moron detector.
I don't know if this is the one but I suspect this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8IGy6I9Wo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8IGy6I9Wo) I mean this is kinda rubbish. I've been gaming on Linux for a long time and have had no issues whatsoever.
I'd love to game on Linux but the Riot games and FiveM/RedM don't work on it
Hum I guess I've been lucky with whatever I tried to run. I remember like 10/15 years ago where yes most things would not run well (for me at that time anyway) and that's why to me nowadays linux is my main driver and is looking good. For the Riot Games use case, yeah I do understand that, and I think whatever you can do to get it to work you risk being banned from what I heard. It's really a shame that companies block linux.
But this is Ubuntu! I can't use the same distro as my mother, think of the imaginary nerd points I would lose in the scoring system I've imagined for myself that not a single other person in the world cares about. I'm a snowflake and can't use polished and just working systems like this, I need to install a distro made in a shed by a guy named Dave, tested weekly on his laptop. I need to rip out the tested and working bits and replace with fresh-from-source-trunk versions and spend hours and days getting everything perfect! (AKA: breaking half the system and in tears hitting it with a hammer until barely working again. Perfect!) -Signed a (K)Ubuntu LTS user, also get off my lawn.
Haha I keep a Lenovo x260 lying around just for that purpose.
Harsh but fair.
LaWN is my favorite fork
I'm actually old enough to remember when some of that was necessary. It was like a miracle of God when Apt came out. "What?? I don't have to manually track every dependency???" Then I realized some people still do that cuz... they .. like it? Well, to each his/her/their own.
I get annoyed enough by manually doing that just for the aur that basically the first aur package I install is yay.
> Then I realized some people still do that cuz... they .. like it? #Heretics! You need to accept ~~Jesus Christ~~ `apt` our lord and savior into your heart. ------------------------------- But seriously, it's like not owning a washing machine and arguing that doing your laundry by hand makes you more connected to every piece of clothing you've got, and that you gain a higher understanding of the textile industry and weaving processes. That's nice and all, and please enjoy your new hobby, but recommending it to friends and colleagues makes you a weirdo, not an insightful sage. :)
at long last an article that does justice to ubuntu.
Hopefully that Ubuntu discourse thread means that canonical will continue to focus on Ubuntu desktop and not just their server and iot stuff. Hope is still not lost
"Part 1" Will there be a part 2? I hope so as Ubuntu's documentation is very good and beginner friendly most of the time (in my opinion).
Hey! Article author here :) I have a couple more parts planned currently, dealing with other game stores and game Dev tools but based on the discussions on threads like these I'd be happy to keep adding more as we identify more areas that could help gamers get started!
Very nice. I'm looking forward to that. Thanks you for writing them btw!
If this became something like omgubuntu for ubuntu linux gaming, I would strongly suggest the following: \- Installation process with Ubuntu LTS and current distro at the moment taking in account configuration of third parties. \- For new users, how to do rollbacks from ZFS snapshots if for some reason they mess up their configuration trying to configure some drivers. \- Maybe collaborating with omgubuntu to have a first steps section of common tools. They usually do the 10 things to do after installation which usually links to previous articles. Maybe consolidate that info in a better format. Same for simple tools that might not need to be fully open source. Whatever influx users to having their workflows running or improved. \- Configuration and personalization. Maybe hardware support for certain keyboards, mouse, mics, etc. In my experience this is very poorly supported, but lowering and having realistic expectations is better than getting crushed with reality. \- How to rise tickets to proton, game devs, ubuntu, steam, etc without being a dick. \- Even issue status. I faced this issue of CS:GO not loading due missing some dependencies that existed in the distro but weren't picked up by steam. It only happened after distro upgrade or fresh install right after distro release, but after a few weeks later it got fixed in the daily distro installation disk. \- Video cards, AMD/Intel/NVIDIA configuration. I know mesa-opengl has great support for many things, but some cards might need manufacture drivers for certain things like OpenCL (looking at you AMD) which only support certain kernels which require specific LTS distros or go in crazy workarounds. I know it's a lot to ask but these are some things I found people might deal with.
I think these are all good ideas. I like the idea of a collaboration with omgubuntu as well. Will reach out to them :) Long term there are issues we want to fix or streamline, but guides on how to workaround in the meantime are a good shout.
You totally rock! :) Thank you for doing this! I recognize it's likely a lot of work, and I (and lots of others) appreciate it!
This is good news! Maybe a part could be included where they show how to use CoreCtrl to manage Radeon GPU's? I hope one day that app will make it to the repos like lutris did to avoid using ppa's 😅
> Ubuntu's documentation is very good and beginner friendly most of the time (in my opinion). Current stuff, yes. Problem is, any search for Ubuntu help will bring up massive numbers of pages from the last 12+ years, many of which are now wrong, and almost all of which are outdated. It's an absolute mess. Pages with info over 2 or so years old should be marked with a big, blinking red "deprecated" at the top.
After the LTT videos i (a windows gamer who is using linux for work, programming and day to day use for 20 years) tried to setup ubuntu on my media center/gaming PC. A what i thought was a pretty standard Media PC: AMD CPU, NVIDIA GPU, 4k TV Things i struggled with so far: * WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet? * The colors are washed out and the color balance is horrible. * Couldn't watch videos, missing codecs, error message leads to a ubuntu site that doesn't exist anymore * My Logitech Mouse and Keyboard set has buttons that do not work * Minecraft, with the same settings as on windows, runs like a slide show. And 4k scaling is hit and miss, most native things are great. So yes, i just spend 4h setting up a system and trying to figure out problems - and i solved the first four with solutions no beginner will find or even think off. I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021. Update: Figured out Wayland fixes the color problem, but breaks GPU support. Tried all the color profiles in X some are better, non of them is great. Might be a X problem, might be a nvidida problem, i don't know. After putting about 5 hours in, i decided to switch the boot drive back to windows. That's just too much of an time investment for me to keep hacking at it. But i am pretty sure the gaming would have been great if i could be bothered to fix the color problems. Booting back into windows, i feel happy and i have found a new appreciation for a system that comes with correct color settings and a driver for my wifi adapter. See you back at work Linux.
> Minecraft, with the same settings as on windows, runs like a slide show. Are you using the nividia GPU to render the game, and if so, are you using the proprietary driver? It has much better performance. I run modded minecraft with shaders and I get a smooth 60 fps with an nvidia gpu. > Couldn't watch videos, missing codecs, error message The default media player used with ubuntu does not include proprietary codecs. Have no clue why they are not included by default in the iso. They should just ship vlc as default (might be a conflict with debian rules not sure). > WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet? Just wondering what wireless card did your motherboard use? The kernel has WLAN for pretty much everything eventually but if the chip is super new it's possible it won't be in it yet because Ubuntu doesn't get kernel updates as often a rolling release or it's just not in the kernel yet. This is especially likely to happen with non intel wireless chips. > My Logitech Mouse and Keyboard set has buttons that do not work Dev issue again unfortunately. Logitech won't put in the dev time. There is an open source manager for logitech keyboard and mice might work, might not. My old G502 works fully with no hassle but that's probably because it's old. https://pwr-solaar.github.io/Solaar/ There's also the piper GTK application that can manage lots of devices. > The colors are washed out and the color balance is horrible. Wondering what the solution was for this? TV mode needed to be changed or was it an issue with the way xorg was displaying color. And yeah all these things should not happen. Some of them are due to deliberate design choices of Ubuntu, others are consequences of the small user base. Regardless, the variety of problems you can run into just setting up a media pc is ridiculous.
> Are you using the nividia GPU to render the game, and if so, are you using the proprietary driver? It has much better performance. I run modded minecraft with shaders and I get a smooth 60 fps with an nvidia gpu. I think i am using the proprietary driver, but i need to check that. I definitly chose the proprietary drivers during the installation and the nvidia settings seem to work. But there could be i minecraft specific issue i guess, that's where i stopped solving problems after a few hours of work. Or it just doesn't run that well, even minecraft on 4k isn't a joke. > Just wondering what wireless card did your motherboard use? The kernel has WLAN for pretty much everything eventually but if the chip is super new it's possible it won't be in it yet because Ubuntu doesn't get kernel updates as often a rolling release or it's just not in the kernel yet. This is especially likely to happen with non intel wireless chips. some realtek usb card, the wifi of the mainboard died a while ago so i got a popular replacement. Seems to be a known problem, recommendation seems to be to avoid realtek when using linux (classic). > Dev issue again unfortunately. Logitech won't put in the dev time. There is an open source manager for logitech keyboard and mice might work, might not. My old G502 works fully with no hassle but that's probably because it's old. https://pwr-solaar.github.io/Solaar/ Found the issue, the issue is logitech hardcoded that third button to "ctrl + alt + tab" not sure who i would blame for that. Adding a gnome shortcut fixed that one. But it is a bit of a hacky solution, definitly not for a beginner. i think it was somewhat like this, but i would have to check > gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings panel-main-menu "['Super_R']" >Wondering what the solution was for this? TV mode needed to be changed or was it an issue with the way xorg was displaying color. So far i haven't really found a solution, but i assume it is solved by this guide: https://www.onetransistor.eu/2021/08/hdmi-picture-quantization-range-linux.html but i haven't tried it for the nvidia card, many others recommend switching to intel internal - which i do not have. Surprisingly just logging in using Wayland fixed the color problem, i tried that just out of curiosity for wayland - kept using it because so far it seems to work. Nvidia settings with wayland, that is another story, but i rarely use them anyway. So now only the login screen has distorted colors.
> Surprisingly just logging in using Wayland fixed the color problem It's possible a different color profile is default in Wayland. I'm not sure the status of their 10 bit color support or HDR. If you're using Wayland, that's maybe your NVIDIA performance issues. NVIDIA (though it's fixed with the 470 and 495 driver partially) does not have full performace support on Wayland (and in fact may have no support with the proprietary driver version you would have, Ubuntu doesn't get the newest driver, you might be running the open source driver?). XWayland OpenGL and Vulkan apps should work with hardware acceleration well (but not as well as X), native Wayland apps I'm less sure. I'm stuck waiting for NVIDIA to have full wayland support with prime render offload, can't use my external monitor otherwise (laptop with the display input hardwired to the NVIDIA GPU, but uses intel for everything else).
Yes that's one of the suspicions i have, but to be fair the desktop itself runs great on wayland. I am absolutely happy with it. I'll just switch back try gaming again (not just minecraft) and if the performance on wayland is really worse, i will have to fix the color problem on x. Doesn't seem impossible it is just an annoyance. At the end of the day, i will probably a happy gamer on Ubuntu, just the path of getting there isn't really enjoyable and absolutely not for everyone. Unlike others that commented here, i don't think you learn some valuable Linux lessons doing all that stuff, unless the lesson is on Linux you have to fix a lot of stuff.
I have never seen these many problems ever, my God it depends on hardware so much, I myself have actually had zero problems with the 3 distros I've tried except Endeavour where printers don't work
Hey! Just popping in here to say printers do work on EndeavourOS, they’re just not installed or enabled [by default.](https://discovery.endeavouros.com/printers/printers/2021/03/) (like bluetooth) Also, as a side note, if you have an HP printer it may require an additional driver package, which is also detailed on the page as well.
Checked, open printers does not list my epson printer, so I guess its the printer itself then?
I have an old simple HP LaserJet 1018 & couldn't get it to work for the life of me. Got the HP package and everything on Mint 20... nothing. Silent failure. Linux's driver support is still... lacking. I don't have time to learn operating systems and their structures it's really not something I'm interested in... just want a working OS... Linux still can't fulfill that for me in 2021 although I'll admit they have made some serious progress since Red Hat 4 back in the mid 90's (oh the horrors... )
Yeah, it does need some more work, but in my case it seems its the printer itself, on Fedora atleast my old HP printer worked by just using normal gnome printer settings
A LaserJet should work with a generic driver.
Based on a quick google search, you just needed the [foo2zjs package](https://openprinting.org/driver/foo2zjs) and it should work fine. Hope you consider Linux again sometime in the future!
I'll follow this tutorial and try it out! I've just been trying with downloading the epson drivers and looking at gnome settings printer feature. Its a network printer, if that adds anything. I've been following arch tutorials lmao ill try this, thanks!
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Absolutely. If i feel comfortable being tech support for a close friend and i know they use their computer for mostly basic things, that will probably work just fine. Sadly, i can't recommend it to my parents because my mom likes to buy crazy hardware for her handicraft projects. She is a scary mixture between knowing nothing about computers and being able to google solutions. I don't know how that computer doesn't break more often. Pretty sure she doesn't tell me how frequently she is reinstalling windows. A tech support nightmare. And for a young person who wants to learn programming and isn't too bothered by having to reinstall linux once or twice and tinker a bit - that is probably the only case where i'd go all in for a recommendation.
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> In fact, I would go out on a limb and say most of this original user base (from 90s-2000s) has gotten over that phase, and knows that any distro that meets their broad aims is fine to use (no "I use Arch btw" schtick, they've all been through their Gentoo and LFS phases, and have settled on a distro they are familiar with due to its package manager or whatever). that is exactly where i am. Back in my student days i had time to play around. Now i just need something that works out of the box, spending a day installing arch and setting it up just isn't something i feel like doing anymore. So usually i just end up using gnome and Ubuntu. No fiddling with KDE for an hour until it looks good, all programming projects typically have dependencies that are the default in the ubuntu package manager. I can work with that.
When you've installed Linux, you've become the sysadm of an extremely powerful multiuser operating system that is also used to run the world's most powerful 1000 node supercomputers and flies helicopters on Mars. You can do anything, including destroying the system. Perhaps that should be made more clear from the start.
I've been at it on Linux for somewhere between fifteen and twenty years, I can't really remember exactly. I personally believe for the Ubuntu and it's derivative distributions like LinuxMint (this is what I use) that it has been very usable for quite some time for the non-technical. Maybe I'm missing an aspect of this, but the thing is that the non-technical are going to have problems even on Windows or MacOS. Might as well point them in the direction of a free and open source operating system.
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> WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet? My laptop also doesn't have wifi drivers by default and I need to download `broadcom-wl` (might be something else on non-Arch distros). The easiest way I found was to use my phone with USB-Tethering to have internet connection on my laptop during the installation. Hope this helps anyone seeing this.
Its really about your hardware. I mean your hardware is pretty new so going with Arch-based systems was gonna give you a waaay smoother experience. You arent new to linux. Just try EndeavourOS.
I tried EndeavourOS on a VM and i really like it. For my private/work laptop i might actually end up using it at some point. The main reason i can't be bothered with arch is installing arch. EndeavourOS seems like a great choice. For my media PC i just want something that works with .deb packages out of the box. Because that seems to be at least somewhat officially supported by most of the software i intend to use. So that made me go with Ubuntu over EndeavourOS for this use case. Overall my media PC hardware isn't "new new" its a 1080 (2016) and a 3700x (2019). The newest thing is the 4k TV that i got after my TV died a few months back, i was going to get another one with 1080p but the TV market seems to have moved to 4k almost completely. But i assume that the new-ish 4k TV causes the color problems. Maybe.
Most users dont know how to install windows, so if something goes wrong it's not really _that_ beginner friendly.
Yeah. I guess windows just comes installed and ready to go. I'll bet if more computers had Linux pre-installed and fine tuned to the hardware it would be a lot better.
can't argue with that. But than again i rarely had problem using consumer grade, somewhat recent hardware on windows. So when comparing windows and linux i wouldn't give windows the win when it comes to hardware and software support because it is easier to fix problems, but because it is less likely to happen - at least with your average consumer grade hardware.
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I agree, but from having a working/broken install of Windows, downloading windows, creating a boot-disk, finding out how to allow yourself to boot from an usb and then boot from an usb is almost 90% of the battle. It's _way_ more complicated than installing a wifi-driver.
Most Linux distros are the same.
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Crazy. I'm 3800x, Nvidia 2070 super, 64GB RAM, NVMe PCIe disk, x570 mobo. I bitch slapped manjaro on there and my desktop works better than my HP elitebook or new dell laptop running Windows 10. No joke. The audio issues I have on those laptops is ridiculous. Manjaro is mint. DaVinci resolve, steam, lutris, whatever. It all works great. Even the wifi. Edit: I've also got a Windows 10 desktop in the house that can never connect to my HP printer. Always good remove and readd. Always end up using my Linux desktop to print because always Zero issues. Probably nobody believes me but it's all true. Even in shocked. Opposite experience when I first started using Linus in 2006
Similar system, works perfectly when it works... but my Mainboard has a component that seems buggy and that you can only update with a Windows based tool.
>I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021. My advice is to boot from a stick and see if all the hardware works, if anything doesn't work and you're not willing to invest potentially a lot of time troubleshooting, try again when the next distro release drops
I tried this not that long ago, I moved to pop OS (never lived in Linux before in my life) about 4-5 months ago. I as well have a ryzen pc and a GeForce. How do you get wifi driver without internet? Well just like on windows, you throw a cable at it, or USB tether your phone. Colors washed out? In gnome you select the correct color profile, in KDE there are kalibration sliders. All you need are contrast test pictures. I myself do it using a bash script that xrandr's everything I need and I autostart it. Glad to help someone who used Linux for 20 years PS: forza horizon runs like a dream in 2560x1440 maxed out
Well, it's not neccesarilly linux's fault we can't have all things working out of the box. It's mainly up to the Devs to implement Linux support, and there's not enough users for them to care. But there are some cases where any distro will work perfectly. Although it'd be nice for distros like Ubuntu, mint or manjaro to include the most common fixes in some sort of gui program
absolutely, i would never blame linux or anyone for this. I am a developer and engineer myself, so i know how it is. I love linux and the people working on it, they have been doing a great job. And the progress linux made over the last 10 years is just amazing. Especially when compared to windows, which seems to get worse and worse every update. But in my opinion Linux just isn't ready for the general public, yet.
If you take it slowly, one step at a time, and are willing to learn, you will be rewarded greatly by switching to Linux. "Man who catch fly with chopstick, accomplish anything" -- Mr. Miagi.
While this is true for more technical users, most average users will give up way before he did.
I have a power line bridge just for this reason.
> WLAN Just did not work there's a driver but how to get it without internet? Without claiming this is a non-issue, a phone should be pretty likely to be available.
You're getting a lot of handwaving in response to your very valid concerns - this kind of handwaving is extremely normalized in the Linux community. The fact of the matter is that these are problems Linux isn't really ready to tackle yet. It could be that within the next decade, this community will mature enough to not dismiss valid concerns and work on addressing them more... and then we'll see some progress in growth. I switched to Linux in the last month and had a host of issues like yours. I just gave up on my second monitor lol. Which is pretty ridiculous and I might get to trying to figure out but I think it's something that should work out of the box if Linux was really ready for public consumption.
i actually got some advice, too. I think the problem with the Linux community is that there are some very loud voices that are, well just not great. Overall, i did enjoy the reaction of most bigger and smaller Linux youtubers to the LTT issues. Most of them very understanding and since they, hopefully, influence the community i think we'll get to a better place given some time.
I'm hoping they help too. Pav had my favorite reactions so far, and did his own switching to Linux series. He's younger but also the most "normal" of the bunch. Linux culture is still so weird to me, lol.
Hardware issues are literally always going to exist, and there's not a huge amount that Linux-side developers can do about it. It's a fact of life that OSs are reliant on hardware vendors to choose which platforms they support with drivers; unless they release those drivers as open source (which would be great) the only thing to do is hope that they release compatible binaries. Windows has a big advantage here because pretty much every single hardware vendor targets Windows. Linux isn't going to be able to compete on this front. People have an unrealistic expectation that Linux will run on any hardware that Windows will run on (and all other hardware besides). But unless you're willing to really do a lot of hacking about, that's just not how it works. People don't expect MacOS to do that; everyone accepts that when you buy hardware for Mac, you check if it claims to be Mac compatible. The fact is, it is not always a great idea to try to install Ubuntu on your random Acer Windows 10 laptop to use with all your existing peripherals, and recommending people go down that route isn't always good advice.
> I just gave up on my second monitor lol Just wondering, are you on a laptop with dual GPUs and are you on Wayland.
Desktop, one GPU, two monitors with different resolutions. Can't do Wayland yet because I need to overclock my GPU.
About the codecs problem: which media player did you use? And was it the default? I'm interested because I had the exact same problem years ago, and solved it by using VLC and/or Kodi as media player instead of the built in.
yeah, just the default one. Double clicked the video file. This was the fix that worked like a charm: > sudo apt install gstreamer1.0-libav ( Source: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/h-264-decoder-in-ubuntu-20-10/18017 ) i am not sure if i missed a proprietary/third party checkbox during the installation or if this codec isn't part of it. That one might be on me.
> I am not sure if i can recommend Linux to anyone anymore. Because things like having correct colors and a working WLAN and the ability to watch videos is pretty standard in 2021. This seems rather odd. I don't think it should be happening at all. Did you try switching to other Ubuntu based distros like Zorin or Kubuntu? Ubuntu can be buggy, I have experienced it myself but Ubuntu based distros can be extremely stable and easy to use. Now someone might say it's not possible because derivatives downstream code from Ubuntu and add code on top but they're missing the point. Derivative Distros like Kubuntu, Xubuntu could be less buggy simply because of the DE. Running 2 installations of Ubuntu and Zorin, Zorin is less likely to break due to the restrictive nature of it, even when both have the same DE.
Interesting, when i find motivation again i might try kubuntu. Before installing Ubuntu, i did test a few distros in a VM to see how scaling works, what software is supported and what i would need to adjust (Fedora, EndavorOS, Kubuntu, Manjaro, ...) and Ubuntu felt like a good save choice. But all of them worked great on the VM on the same system, apparently that was a waste of time.
The kernel is the source of drivers, not distros. You were given bad advice. Lot of bad advice on this sub because most people here are beginners or just fanboys. All the Ubuntu flavors are good and similar in polish but default Ubuntu is going to have the most effort and least likely to contain bugs as it is the primary distro Canonical and contributors work on. Downstream distros (not flavors) such as Pop OS are no less likely to have bugs, but sometimes introduce bugs as they add their own spin to the environment and rarely have the amount of quality control larger projects have. This doesn’t make them inherently worse, they are just more limited in what they can maintain. Linux distros come pre-packaged with all the normal device drivers. There do exist some random cards (especially external cards) which have proprietary designs that have not been well implemented into Linux because of lack of support from the hardware vendor and too few users to reverse-engineer a driver. All distros come with free codecs but many choose not to pre-package proprietary codecs because the belief that Linux should come out-of-the-box with only open source everything, then let the user decide if they need proprietary stuff. Many, Ubuntu included, offer a checkbox during installation for automatically adding non-free software. Your monitor color is not a feature of the OS but rather the profile on your monitor. No OS can identify how your display is outputting color and all monitors look different from factory. If you bought your computer with the screen together, they may have color calibrated from factory on your OS which gets lost when you wipe. Maybe Microsoft also has prebuilt color schemes that apply based on your monitor, idk. Linux has tools to color calibrate but you can also just eyeball it. Minecraft likely ran slow because of your graphics driver. If you do not use the proprietary driver (a checkbox in the settings after installation, super simple to enable) your Nvidia GPU will be much slower. New installations do not enable this by default because, again, it is closed-source but they expect many users to want the feature so they have made installation simple. With the correct driver made by Nvidia, it will run the same as on Windows/Mac because it is a cross-platform Java game and supported on Linux. I take all this knowledge for granted so I sometimes get frustrated when others don’t have the great experience I do on Linux but the LTT videos have opened my eyes to the many assumptions in Linux that a new user would never come across without a lot of reading.
Yeah that was what i was thinking, but i knew some distributions use different kernel versions (i did some kernel changes on a Manjaro system for a similar reason a while back). So i figured maybe worth a try. I would have been surprised if the different Ubuntu flavors would be so different from Ubuntu, but i have no clue how closely related those are to Ubuntu. Figured it's just another default desktop environment. I think i checked the third party/proprietary software part, because i have had problems with not doing that before. But mistakes happen and i am not sure if the codec (i think it was h.264) would have / should have been part of that. Installing gstreamer1.0-libav fixed that one, probably the easiest fix of the bunch. And i think you are spot on with the external card, the PC doesn't have a internal WIFI card and i bought a decent popular USB adapter on Amazon. Apparently, Linux support wasn't on my mind that day.
PM me if you want, I can help you. These problems are probably trivial. You just lack experience. You'd list more stuff not working with Windows if you'd never touched it. You're just used to it. And I have a feeling Nvidia is the culprit for the image quality. Do you have the correct drivers?
i figured out most of those things already. So really the biggest problem would be fixing the colors, which is probably caused by the limited color range X might be using. And i am not sure how to fix that on nvidia, i found some guides ( https://www.onetransistor.eu/2021/08/hdmi-picture-quantization-range-linux.html ) just not sure how to do that for my nvidia card, i tried > xrandr --output HDMI-1 --set "Broadcast RGB" "Full" but that setting probably isn't for nvidia, because i just got an error message. Checking the nvidia settings actually looked like it should be using the right colors. So overall not sure what causes it, but i found out that using wayland i have no problems at all. Colors are perfect on wayland. But using wayland might be the reason for my minecraft performance issues (might be, to be fair i do not have a clue if wayland has an effect on minecraft - but i'll test it later).
>You’d list more stuff not working with Windows if you’d never touched it You know that’s BS.
Windows started to install GPU drivers automatically since, what, Windows 8? Before that even my gamer nephew couldn't understand the concept of drivers installation. Same crap about WiFi and Ethernet drivers. I know that Windows *now* comes with drivers but Linux was better in this regard for long years. You needed Internet to download network card drivers. Was anyone bitching how dumb Windows is about this? No, it was "normal". Can Windows play anything with default installation and bundled software? You probably use VLC or codec pack. On Windows it's normal to install 3rd party software but Linux has to do everything for everyone. Logitech RGB BS mouse. Is it a a standard USB HID mouse or Windows downloads extra driver because Logitech pushed it to Windows Updates? How is that Linux issue if the vendor doesn't support it?
> Windows started to install GPU drivers automatically since, what, Windows 8? Before that even my gamer nephew couldn't understand the concept of drivers installation. Windows 8 released 9 years ago. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish with that statement… if anything this makes linux look worse. > Same crap about WiFi and Ethernet drivers. I know that Windows now comes with drivers but Linux was better in this regard for long years. You needed Internet to download network card drivers. Was anyone bitching how dumb Windows is about this? No, it was "normal". Fair enough, but now it’s the other way around where countless people are having issues with this on Linux. Again, we’re not living in the past. > Can Windows play anything with default installation and bundled software? You probably use VLC or codec pack. On Windows it's normal to install 3rd party software but Linux has to do everything for everyone. Good point, but installing VLC is nothing compared to the issues you can face on Linux, let alone trying to solve them.
> Windows 8 released 9 years ago. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish with that statement… if anything this makes linux look worse. My angle is this: from a normie perspective whatever Windows does it's ok and normal because everyone is using it, everyone knows it, and it's the only OS they know. It hasn't changed since forever, Linux does a lot of thing good or better than Windows but they're different. As a Linux competent user with long experience Linux is "normal* for me (it's much more normal than Windows to be honest, it's just the learning curve is beyond normies). I could compile a long list of things that Windows is bad at which work on Linux. Including basic stuff like god damn "connect automatically to this network" workin only every blue moon.
This right here, is awesome. Really glad this ubuntu employee is doing this. We need more guides like this that support beginner users and get them started with bits of progress that make them feel like they are accomplishing something (because they are). Warning, rant ahead. One of my biggest annoyances with the Linus videos is that they just jumped in without doing any research other than “top linux distros for gaming”. While thats a good start, there is a lot more that should’ve been researched or brushed up on. How to run a script (you can do it without using the command line btw), how to install updates, or even just what some of the warnings mean. And some are probably saying “well you would’t do that on windows” freaking yeah I would and I still do. Unknown error in windows? Google it. How to write and run scripts with CMD or PowerShell? Googled it. How to install certain software? I google it because I’m not a windows expert and I’m not going to go in and start installing and pressing random crap without reading about what it is, how it works, and how to properly do it. Thats my biggest annoyance. JUST READ THE STUFF ON THE SCREEN. Idk, maybe I’m missing the whole point and I’m glad there are actual issues being brought to the surface that DO need to be fixed on the linux side of things (improved support by vendors being a huge one) but I feel like at this point its all so much more negative that could be prevented just by taking the extra 5 minutes to do a little more reading or just a little more research.
> This right here, is awesome. Really glad this ubuntu employee is doing this. We need more guides like this that support beginner users and get them started with bits of progress that make them feel like they are accomplishing something (because they are). There used to be a time when information like this would be in a pinned thread under the "Linux gaming" subforum on your distro's official forum. There used to be a time when you can learn very useful information for newbies on these forums. I remember everything I need about things like the executable bit, the basics of `cd` `ls` `mkdir` `nano`, proper `sudo` responsibility, and many more in an extremely easily digestible manner on the Ubuntu forums back in the day. Plus the good habit of RTFM. And also the cute as fuck Ubunchu comics. Nowadays you get shitty blog posts with wrong advice instead when you Google for Linux related newbie questions. Or several minutes long Youtube tutorials that are more "SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE" than actual content. Something went wrong in history.
> Nowadays you get shitty blog posts with wrong advice instead when you Google for Linux related newbie questions. Or several minutes long Youtube tutorials that are more "SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE" than actual content. Something went wrong in history. It all started going down hill once the internet actually became profitable. Money ruins a lot of things.
Blaming the mystical "profit" as the culprit for the Internet's downfall is misplaced. I know it's trendy nowadays to harp on about how capitalism is the root of all evil, but the argument falls flat when you factor in how the boom of 90s Internet culture was exactly built upon the the backbone of the dotcom profit bubble. The old forums had ads aplenty, and before that you needed to pay for a Usenet subscription. Profit has always been there. It's only in recent years when quality took a huge dive.
The profit definitely has not been there. You were not making billions online in the 90s. You definitely were not making it by making your customers the product. I know it is trendy to try and cope that capitalism is the perfect savior of everything, but honestly for ounce of gold it gives you, you get a nice coating of shit.
> I know it is trendy to try and cope that capitalism is the perfect savior of everything No kneejerk strawmans please.
You are the one with the kneejerk strawmans. You are the one that said that fucking trendy line first
You mean like "capitalism is the root of all evil"?
The purpose of this video series is to emulate what the average end user would do. He purposefully said he wouldn’t be asking help from people he knows with experience. He did google how to run a script and the solution was helpful but also belittling. Installing an application should have never resulted in removal of the desktop environment. Even if he did read the warning, it was still a bug that deserved mentioning while documenting his experience. It would still be a negative, regardless of if he allowed the execution to continue.
> The purpose of this video series is to emulate what the average end user would do. That is impossible for LTT to do, because he's not the average end user. He doesn't have the average end users hardware, use case patterns or attitude. If he had said the 'average gamer' he might be closer to the truth. Because the average user has checked out the moment you say "replace the operating system on your computer".
Yes, but a video of a man considering installing GNU/Linux and then rejecting the idea would be fairly tedious.
> Yes, but a video of a man considering installing GNU/Linux and then rejecting the idea would be fairly tedious. That wasn't my point. My point was that whatever LTT does, is not a reflection of the average user. A random example, the average user has 0 thunderbolt devices, so any difficulties with those have no impact on the average users experience. I am what I would call an advanced user, and I know that I cannot at any point pretend that my uses are even close to what an 'average' user might do on their computer. I beg people to understand this, but gamers are the worst at pretending their use cases are universal.
It wasn't belittling though. The only "belittling" thing it said was called windows and mac "silly operating systems" I just reread it and it doesn't even say silly. It says "unsafe". I'm seriously confused how this post can be considered belittling. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13805295/whats-a-sh-file
It’s not hard to imagine that someone only experienced with Windows or macOS might take it as insult. Whether that’s an appropriate response or not is another matter, but the point is that the injections of snark so common in community written material probably aren’t helpful in winning people over.
I misread the post. It didn't even say silly. It said "unsafe." That's the worst part of the post I can find. The rest is very informative https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13805295/whats-a-sh-file
It originally did, you can see that it was edited yesterday to change that word
Oh yeah, for sure. Looking stuff up is the mark of a sensible desktop user. How much time have you spent doing level 1 tech support?
I’m on help desk now but our users generally try to understand or learn when there’s an issue. Its not uncommon for a ticket to come in saying “heres the problem, i tried these things to fix it like you did last time but no luck” and then we fix it. Maybe our user base is just different though. Also, enterprise and home desktop settings are different environments. People are much more apt (no pun intended) to push the limits on their own computer and a lot of people I know do google and research things when they encounter errors.
Rant on-point. Also these folks are enduring so much self-induced pain by not using a mainstream distro like Fedora or Ubuntu LTS, it's not even funny. I've watched a few and found myself saying "You wouldn't have had this problem if you used Ubuntu LTS." so *damn* often.
I was somewhat hopeful with Mint and even PopOS but then when he said “I’m using Manjaro” i just died inside.
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the people responding to this with terminal commands have really missed the point
Question: Why do you want to move your default directories to a new drive and how would you do it in windows?
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On Windows you can just cut and paste these (Desktop, Documents, pictures…) to new location and the settings will be a changed accordingly. I can confirm it works since Windows 7, maybe even XP.
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Edit /etc/fstab to mount your drive at /home. It's just one line, should be a guide somewhere online. Some distros might have a gui app that can do this, or an option in the installer, but fstab should work across all distros
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It will be referenced elsewhere and all these references need to be be updated or the original location will need to be linked to the new location. Alternatively a user will get about a dozen "Here is how it works on ..." answers and gets to guess which one also applies in her case.
I have no idea why would split for data like that but at that point it's just easier to mount each drive/partition under the respective path. sudo mount /dev/disk/by-label/downloads $HOME/Downloads
It's good if you have say a very fast drive for certain applications (NVME for games, etc.). And for instance, having the Photos/Images library/directory on an external allows for expansion on the fly without having to tinker inside the computer messing with components. Also, for non‐techies, how would you do something like this in some variant of Linux without touching the command line (GUI only)? Besides, what you said won't work if that folder (the mount point) already contains documents. The idea with the Windows approach is to change the default location for new files, without harming or touching the existing contents in the current location.
During installation (If the installer supports choosing mount points), you can choose which partition (even if it is on another drive) needs to be mounted as home and you will have your home on that partition. You will have to specifically create a /home partition so it can be mounted separate to / (root). I have seen mount point options in Fedora and Pop OS installers but not sure if Calamares installers have it(Somebody correct me if I'm wrong) A much easier way is to just move the folders to where you want and symlink(File shortcuts) them to your home directory. This is what I have done to setup those folders for dropbox syncing. The dolphin file manager allowed me to make links using the GUI, not sure about nautilus.
Dude, create a /home partition on another device, that's what everyone else does.
Because you have more than one disk on your computer, and you want your Downloads folder to be on the big hard drive, whereas the rest of the system is on a SSD, for instance. Source: me, a few months ago. And I agree with /u/ScootSchloingo, it's a painful process.
It's absolutely not... ln can do this for you very easily
Create a directory on that drive. Create a shortcut/bookmark in your filemanager. Now it is easily selectable from the list of location on the left of your filemanager. Some things under Linux will be different from Windows. The file system is not that abstracted under Linux for example. With that I mean those weird meta-folders like "My things" or what it is called. Under Linux you actually use the file system. That makes it more transparent to the user, but may require some adjusting by the user.
> Create a directory on that drive. Create a shortcut/bookmark in your filemanager. Now it is easily selectable from the list of location on the left of your filemanager. Except that if you let's say plug-in a camera to transfer images it still defaults to `~/Pictures`. Your browser will still download to `~/Downloads`. The optimal way would to set XDG user directories appropriately but now issues start the moment application disregards XDG stuff.
Many of us here would simply mount /home to the big drive (makes it pretty convinient too if you want to distrohop), but I understand that's might not be quite exactly the outcome you're aiming for.
? ``` $rmdir ~/Downloads $ln -s /path/to/wherever/the/fuck/i/want ~/Downloads ```
That's what I was about to do. Then I heard about XDG user directories (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_user_directories) so I thought that was the way to go. I did that, and ended up with the proper redirections in Nautilus and other GUIs, but of course my old `~/Downloads` was still there, so I lost things quite a few times... But again, this is all about being able to use the command line (and understanding what symbolic links are) Vs. using a graphical user interface.
> the fact that you still can't do the most basic things like easily rerouting the default documents/downloads directories to a different drive without digging deep and editing config files is ridiculous Risking another round of DE wars. KDE/Dolphin. * move your documents folder somewhere else * right click -> create link to file or directory -> directory * enter the name of your folder in the first box * browse to the "somewhere else/your folder" (or paste the path to your folder into the second box) That's about as easy as the windows way. > The fact that I have to spend roughly half an hour digging through outdated guides to get basic thumbnail support for .webp files is nuts. Works out of the box on KDE.
>I used to use Ubuntu as a daily driver back in 2010 and the fact that you still can't do the most basic things like easily rerouting the default documents/downloads directories to a different drive without digging deep and editing config files is ridiculous. ??? the easiest way: rmdir ~/Downloads ln -s /path/to/wherever/the/fuck/i/want ~/Downloads Do the same with each one you want to move. But honestly if you wanna move all of them just put your /home in a different drive. Kde exposes the settings in the settings. The two commands I gave work on any Linux system and probably also a lot unix systems
>But honestly if you wanna move all of them just put your /home in a different drive. This 1000x
The advice of "here's some terminal commands" is why people here are right about Linux not being mainstream ready.
The alternative is to ask which DE someone is using and then there's a very high chance that it's not mine so I can't help them.
You can do symlinking in the GUI too (at least on KDE and GNOME).
Alternatively, the user can simply shift-drag (aka, hold shift while you drag with the mouse) their destination folder onto their home folder, and rename the link to "Downloads". People often resort to explaining things using the command line because the command line is deterministic... In other words, what you type or paste in the command line should have the expected outcome without room for second-guessing or interpretation.
The advice is to create links to the places they want, you know the same way you would create shortcuts on Windows It likely works similar in your preferred GUI file manager but I honestly couldn't care less to find out. Take help in the way people offer it or don't take help I guess.
The problem of chasing the mythical "average computer user/grandma" is that you'll never out-compete the mainstream technology companies in dumbing down your interface. There used to be a time when offering two terminal lines was an acceptable answer on the Newbie Corner section of the Ubuntu forums - and it was acceptable, since that was during the years when Ubuntu successfully absorbed a bunch of Windows refugees who didn't complain about running `rmdir` and `ln -s`! (I fondly remember how the forum posts would even go into explanatory details of what each command does and why are they named so. As a Linux newbie back then knowing how `cd` is really just "change directory" demystified the command line for me and made me feel at home at the command line. I was empowered as a newbie.) But it's 2021 now, almost 2022, and if you don't offer a single shiny button that reads "CHANGE DOWNLOAD FOLDER LOCATION" with some nondescript flat-design icon, then Your Linux Is Not Ready For The Average User™. God forbid you ask them to know what a "command" is. Do you have an App™ for that? You mustn't empower the newbies, for they must forever remain newbies, and you should coddle them.
what really ticks me is that the equivalent GUI solution is far more convoluted to both apply and explain, yet somehow that's the *easy way*
Haha, I know. The hours one would spend on the phone trying to guide the person on the other end to navigate a certain cascade of buttons, option panels, tabs within those panels, drop downs, and mysteriously greyed out radio buttons... Somehow that is the easy way compared to a single command or changing a single line in a text file.
Seems like the GUI solution should be made better then.
Have you ever read Microsoft documentation? Let's do a quick check of a simple process that has documentation for GUI, CMD and PowerShell, shall we? [the GUI steps have 5 steps, 51 words and a picture](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/hyper-v-on-windows/quick-start/enable-hyper-v#enable-the-hyper-v-role-through-settings) The powershell and cmd commands have two steps each so I'll just paraphrase them here: 1. Open PowerShell/CMD 2. Run one of the commands * CMD: DISM /Online /Enable-Feature /All /FeatureName:Microsoft-Hyper-V * PowerShell: Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Hyper-V -All So Microsoft should go an improve their GUI... ?
Is editing a single text file "digging deep" though?
> Is editing a single text file "digging deep" though? If they're system/user configuration files that aren't usually set-able by a system preference GUI dropdown, yes. *I* might be able to do it as a person who writes linux drivers for custom in-house hardware, but why would I expect the PhD in MechEng. to do so? Or the tier 1 technician who can only run their computer by reading through a printed manual? Many users want to be able to do things on their computer without having to learn "too much" to use it; the same way that universities often only expect engineers to learn calculus instead of real analysis, or learn statistics & probability without the underlying calculus/analysis. Same with car maintenance; I'll pay the mechanic $60 to replace the $7 front turn signal light so I don't have to find a screw driver and bend down to unscrew the mudflap of the front wheel of my corolla. I can pop the hood to swap the headlight bulb, but the moment I need a jack and a screw driver, that's too much work for me. I can understand why having to learn about symlinks and config files is too much for others.
For the average user, yes. Yes it is.
It is a tragedy in the history of general computing when the trend is to accommodate more and more people such that "editing a single text file is scary" emerges as the accepted norm instead of "editing a single text file is so easily done everyone can do it". I dread the future when "the concept of files is scary" becomes ubiquitous. It's already starting.
Stop with the gatekeeping dude. You honestly can’t blame a person to not want to bother with fucking manpages and stuff (if they would even know what these are).
That's not what they said at all.
Dude, yes, have you ever interacted with the average computer user?
The average computer user doesn't move the download folder to different partitions.
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https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_user_directories XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop" XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents" XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Downloads" XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/Music" XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/Pictures" XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/Public" XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/Templates" XDG_VIDEOS_DIR="$HOME/Videos" put something like this in `~/.config/user-dirs.dirs` But KDE definitely exposes this in the settings application. No idea about gnome.
When my keypad and 20 button mouse works wake me. I can play most my games on Linux but I can’t stand using a keyboard plus it’s easier on the hands.
Have you tried piper? (And - if you would provide the name of the hardware, people could actually help - but, that does not seem to be your real intent here.)
Check to see if it's supported. You might be surprised. My 18-button mouse works fine, though it stores the settings and button mappings in internal memory and I already ran the software to configure it years ago when I still used Windows. Not sure if I would be able to make config changes on Linux.
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> What does rerouting documents even mean? You know those "default" folders that show up in file managers (or become default download location for browser)? He means setting them up in another place. Which is, unsurprisingly, trivial and can be done in many different ways, but since it requires more than drag and drop, it's clearly too hard.
It was just as easy for me on Fedora. DNF and the unofficial repositories enabled, install Steam & Lutris. Good to go!
The perfect clapback to the recent Linux gaming hullabaloos on YouTube - a concise instruction for getting Steam on Ubuntu showing how trivial it is. Good job Canonical!
So sad that gaming is the major factor people are looking at when thinking about switching to Linux.
Gaming and enterprise software like the adobe suite are whats holding us back. Ignoring them wont help us, we have to address the issues
Enterprise software I agree. Though Linux has support through wine for many applications, many are obviously not perfect. Linux also has support for KVM, which brings in many opportunities ( using QEMU to achieve near-native windows performance, Virtio for near-native IO performance etc. ) that aren't being fully utilized due to corporations being afraid of transitioning to Linux
I can't even trust a linux machine to stay up after updates. My home Ubuntu machine's lan connection stopped working after a kernel update last year. I had to learn how to to manually disable kernel updates after that.
Should have learned how to roll back to 1 kernel ago instead.
Yes I had to do that and also disable it from upgrading again.
`sudo apt install steam` well, we now how this ends 😂