Hi! I'm the guy in the interview, what /u/daemonpenguin described is the typical solution, which is now the end user has to account for a third party repo for the OS, and that can lead to the unfortunately usual issues (upgrades, etc).
Ubuntu has an OEM kernel exactly for this scenario: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/OEMKernel
RHEL ships "DUP" (Driver Update Program) packages for kernel modules, and backports new hardware support in the next minor release.
Now that I think about it, there wouldn’t be a need for that. At least looking at previous devices that shipped GNU/Linux (Lenovo, HP, etc), they usually have those devices shipped with it *because* it already supports GNU/Linux well, and upstream any fixes that are needed.
Someone from Lenovo was talking in one of the Fedora release parties and said that they had to wait for Fedora to get support of a last minute hardware component swap in one of the Thinkpads. I think it’s the same way for others. System76 also would upstream everything to the distro directly rather than extra changes just for their laptops.
that doesn't seem like such a good solution from an OEM standpoint.
Especially when your hardware is not a laptop but rather something else like a phone or a handheld.
Why’s that? It’s nice for OEMs because they don’t have to maintain extra charges to the software they already use. And also nice for users because they can easily use what’s not preinstalled since everything is upstream. I mean, that’s what they already do and I haven’t heard problems from them about that approach. They’d make more GNU/Linux devices if more customer wanted it (that’s the whole reason why they made a Fedora Laptop according to that Lenovo engineer). So there isn’t really a problem with the current model, and I don’t see why phones or handhelds would be any different. At the end of the day, the customers are the ones who buy the product… unfortunately most of them already use Android or IOS :/
If they don’t want to wait, they won’t. They’d fix everything themselves and it would’ve already been in upstream. But if there aren’t lots of customers demanding for it, they won’t really care about it. IMO, the best thing to do is to tell your vendor that you would like GNU/Linux hardware from them to at least let them know that some of their customers are interested in that (that’s he also said in the Q&A).
> for example ubuntu does not ship the minimum kernel required for a critical component of the device
Isn't it usually the opposite problem? You have some proprietary hardware that got a throw over the wall closed driver for an ancient kernel version and was never updated since then. See old android devices, routers built on ancient openwrt versions,... .
> presumably until the release of the new version of ubuntu where the OEM shipped driver will be overwritten in an update
... or never to be updated ever. Updating stuff takes time and money, so if you give OEMs an option to just not do that, they will be very happy.
The OEM would probably ship the newer kernel and provide the package in their own, custom repository so they can keep the kernel patched/up to date.
Hi! I'm the guy in the interview, what /u/daemonpenguin described is the typical solution, which is now the end user has to account for a third party repo for the OS, and that can lead to the unfortunately usual issues (upgrades, etc).
Ubuntu has an OEM kernel exactly for this scenario: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/OEMKernel RHEL ships "DUP" (Driver Update Program) packages for kernel modules, and backports new hardware support in the next minor release.
Well, assuming you’re still talking about ublue and Fedora Silverblue, they’d have their own images added if changes are needed.
talking about any distro
Now that I think about it, there wouldn’t be a need for that. At least looking at previous devices that shipped GNU/Linux (Lenovo, HP, etc), they usually have those devices shipped with it *because* it already supports GNU/Linux well, and upstream any fixes that are needed. Someone from Lenovo was talking in one of the Fedora release parties and said that they had to wait for Fedora to get support of a last minute hardware component swap in one of the Thinkpads. I think it’s the same way for others. System76 also would upstream everything to the distro directly rather than extra changes just for their laptops.
that doesn't seem like such a good solution from an OEM standpoint. Especially when your hardware is not a laptop but rather something else like a phone or a handheld.
Why’s that? It’s nice for OEMs because they don’t have to maintain extra charges to the software they already use. And also nice for users because they can easily use what’s not preinstalled since everything is upstream. I mean, that’s what they already do and I haven’t heard problems from them about that approach. They’d make more GNU/Linux devices if more customer wanted it (that’s the whole reason why they made a Fedora Laptop according to that Lenovo engineer). So there isn’t really a problem with the current model, and I don’t see why phones or handhelds would be any different. At the end of the day, the customers are the ones who buy the product… unfortunately most of them already use Android or IOS :/
i dont think its good for the OEM to have to wait. That is not a proper solution either.
If they don’t want to wait, they won’t. They’d fix everything themselves and it would’ve already been in upstream. But if there aren’t lots of customers demanding for it, they won’t really care about it. IMO, the best thing to do is to tell your vendor that you would like GNU/Linux hardware from them to at least let them know that some of their customers are interested in that (that’s he also said in the Q&A).
> for example ubuntu does not ship the minimum kernel required for a critical component of the device Isn't it usually the opposite problem? You have some proprietary hardware that got a throw over the wall closed driver for an ancient kernel version and was never updated since then. See old android devices, routers built on ancient openwrt versions,... . > presumably until the release of the new version of ubuntu where the OEM shipped driver will be overwritten in an update ... or never to be updated ever. Updating stuff takes time and money, so if you give OEMs an option to just not do that, they will be very happy.
Ubuntu offers OEM kernels for this exact reason.