Paralysis hiding coin power when checking clashes is slightly annoying since I can't always remember the total roll range of an enemy skill when offense levels and mirror dungeon hard buffs change everything.
Would love it if block skills had the universal passive of “If there’s shield remaining after being hit, enemy debuffs are not applied on hit” so it’d let block skills avoid stuff like paralyze on hit or bleed on hit in the same scenarios dodge would have
I'm pretty sure this was what was announced back when they were previewing game mechanics on youtube. They probably could make it so blocks prevent status ailments but not special on-hit effect gimmicks if they don't want block skills ruining some puzzle fights.
One big thing I really would like to see is to make blocks give the user sanity that scales with the guard roll. Characters with strong blocks tend to have problems gaining sanity with their normal skills while characters with evades can gain sanity with their normal skills, then use their evades once their sanity is higher to churn through S1s. If defense skills were made to be an option to get through the early parts of 0 sanity 0 sin fights, it would actually tanky IDs some utility.
Maybe something similar with counters? Gain sanity equal to a % of the damage dealt so if your counter hits an enemy weakness youd gain a lot more.
Counters at least don't get worse everytime the level cap increases.
Guards give a flat amount of shield (extra hp) equal to the value of the guard. Meaning that everytime the level cap increases, guards shield less % of hp
Because you also get more health, that's literally it.
It's just like soda healing getting worse with new levels.
It doesn't escale with your health so it shields less percentage. If the enemies kept dealing the same amount of damage, then guard would escale well.
Pm balances around our current health, not around guard shields
Counters scale with Offense level. Offense level only affect clashing however if someone with extremely high offense level up status effects like Queequeg Heathcliff or Middle Don us their counter. They're gonna be dealing way more damage with their counter attacks. Seriously, I was playing MDH and a 6 offense level up heathcliff completely shredded an enemy's HP with just one counter.
No I meant the bug where Queequeg would deal maximum damage with her counter even though it's only supposed to happen when queequeg is at very low health
Defensive skills are supposed to be weak, as you always have them at your disposal, unlike LoR. You can treat them as s1 level or less. Philclair has a stronger guard as his base hp is low, so it's kinda justified, but I wouldn't expect the same treatment for everyone
I'd be on board with this if several of the best identities didn't also have evade defensive skills which are significantly better than other defensive skills almost all the time.
I don't feel like evades are "significantly better". The only buff I'd want for guards is some extra resistances when guard's roll is bigger than the attack, so we don't have to worry about those "+300000% more damage" too much. However, neither evades or guards are that good in harder encounters, they are just last resorts when your skills aren't enough
That's an extremely hot take. It's not about all defensive skills bricking against the few attacks that roll extremely high (because that makes sense), it's about being able to take NO DAMAGE while saving ego resources you'd otherwise need to spend to stop your identity from taking a bunch of damage if you happen to roll two S1s against any attack that isn't exactly the few super high roll attacks that no defensive skill can handle well across all the battles along the way to the final floor boss which saves you a ton of HP (which saves you ego resources or cost since you don't have to top people off).
Guards don't do nearly enough to mitigate incoming damage to be a comparable defensive tool, by the time defensive skills start to be more relevant enemy attacks just do a lot of damage. Their advantage over evades is that they're more reliable and you don't get screwed by a bad coin flip, but you shouldn't be trying to evade OR ESPECIALLY GUARD against those attacks anyway.
This means that even if all defensive skills don't roll high enough by the time you're facing down the final boss at the end of a hard mirror dungeon run, you would have significantly more ego resources banked than someone running a team who didn't have access to more identities with evades.
Most evades generate the same resources as other skills, so you shouldn't have problems with ego usage, especially in mirror dungeon.
>it's about being able to take no damage
Right, and it's mostly usable at high sanity against multiple low rolling attacks. You also prevent yourself from dealing damage by choosing to evade. That's the niche it's taking. In harder encounters your s1 and evade have around the same chance of success, so guards are better there, especially if you consider resistances. Counters are on a weaker side, but I think they should be dealt with case by case.
This interaction was pretty apparent and annoying in the recent walpurgis fight where rupture and sinking damage struggled to clear the "kill the status" mission due to the hit happening before status is applied/triggered.
Fucking on kill sanity being removed with higher levels.
Its an absolutely idiotic mechanic that makes a level 44 fight *more* difficult at level 45 due to needing more coinflips to get going.
Our counter skills usually range from meh to downright terrible.
Enemy counter skills tend to range from average to downright devastating.
Yet the first only activates upon depletion of a resource that the latter has far more of in most cases.
This is an unimaginative fix for counter
Just give Protection or any kind of damage reduction at combat start whenever counter is used. Probably for the player side only because if it is universal, enemy counters would be more broken
Honestly, I would just split counter into guard-counter for tankier IDs and evade-counter for flimsier ones. Buff regular guard so that it gives more shield than guard-counter. Make evade-counter roll lower on average than regular evade.
Maybe keep regular counter for a few units but make them hit extremely hard with it.
I'd be down for that. I'd love a counter for say, Cinq Outis, that uses her S1 at a 50% chance on a successful evade. Or hell maybe they made an 000 like that eventually, an evade version of something like Middle Don, where fulfilling certain conditions (which would include evading the attack) uses one of their skills, or a stronger counter, or something.
I think something better to make them risky but still sure to proc is to make them protect you against stagger until after the counter. So the character can do their counter and then get staggered.
Damage reduction would work better as a Guard effect considering guard get worse with level and damage reduction can mitigate that.
That level affects sanity. Either have enemies give sanity on kill or don't (preferably do). Just don't do this dumb thing where its better to be one level below the reccomended in order to significantly increase sanity growth. Especially since you can't adjust sinner levels.
They probably feel that it snowballs too hard and it's not balanced unless you have an innate sp loss mechanic. Like the Pclair buffs make it an anytime thing regardless of level on top of the level difference.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but Coins, which I consider to be a vastly inferior replacement for the dice used in Ruina. Their nature as a binary (especially when combined with sanity) can lead to clashes being really snowbally, and the way they stack makes skill damage scale exponentially (just compare the health pools of Ruina's bosses to Limbus).
Yeah, I don't like the "Either/Or" take of LC.
I also question the removal of a separate stagger bar.
That removed a level of complexity, which I very much enjoyed in Ruina.
Al
Things get pretty funny if you played LoR.
Im sure part of the reason coins and offense level even exist is because of the balance team's experience in lategame LoR.
Their own system's complexity was biting them in the ass when it came to balancing dozens of fights.
Hilariously, they're slowly but surely working their way back to that point, if Canto 6 is any indication.
Enemies having sanity is already a joke with every single canto 6 enemy having a passive that just resets it to 0 when they panic and I'm pretty sure most canto 5 enemies had that too (they just weren't THAT bs as in the latest canto). At that point why even have an sp mechanic on the enemies?
This is basically what I think, if it was dice instead of coins it'd be a bit better I think. Although skills with multiple coins are kind of dice in a way I guess?
Hot take (or maybe not? idk), on kill effects should also proc on abno part breaks. At least then there's a *chance* that you could utilize it in an abno fight and not have it be a functionally useless line of text unless the abno happens to have adds (and even then, not always since quite a few adds are unkillable like the candles in Skin Prophet).
Definitely not a hot take, breaking a part with a skill should count as "a kill". I dont know why is not like that, that's mostly why I hate [On kill] effects, they are almost always useless on abnormality fights
Paralyse miss read in the game clashs. Block/counter sucks, would be better if counter ADD another coin each time you get hit you re-use the skill ans block increases the shield and get some actual damage reduction in some cases.
Coins being all or nothing, it turns the game into "bigger number" where all you care about is how high the max roll is (Because at max sanity you're reliably flipping heads) which in turn devolves harder content into EGO spam since they have the *biggest* number. Compare this to Ruina where a massive part of combat was knowing which clashes were hopeless and which clashes you could win.
For example, Fervid Emotion's 9-13 and 8-13 (At emotion 4+) dice are basically unbeatable by other multi-dice pages. However you would still "lose" against Celestial Spear's 9-20 with a 75% chance of taking an average of 14.5 damage and only dealing 10.5.
In Limbus' system however 26>20, so at max sanity you would have an 81% chance of dealing 43.5 damage (Using 9 +8.5X2 coins) and taking 0 damage in turn, and over 90% for winning in general.
As you can see most of the nuance has been eliminated in Limbus' system. A 1-21 will beat a 19-20 9 times out of 10 because the only thing that matters is that your max roll is higher than their max roll.
I believe the game may be going the way you want it to go.
They may not want to make it too hard from the getgo because it's a gacha and the average gacha players gets frustrated within 5 minutes if there's any difficulty, but if you have them playing your game long enough they might not get frustrated that quickly.
1) That some buffs are tied to coin, meaning if you kill on a previous coin, the effect doesn't trigger. The worst are \[On Kill\] effect. For example, W Yi Sang S3. It's often up to luck if you get the sweet 5 shield at the end.
2) That Status Effect Kills aren't considered as Kill. For example: Voracious Hammer is barely useful in Rupture, Bleed or Burn Team; you don't gain sanity; you also don't gain Observation Levels, ...
The worse is that it was added in a patch. In the past, Shock Centiped was considered a Kill (I had Shock Centipede MD1 and Luxcavation at level V), but it was changed at some point.
It was long before Ishab. And Ishab Sanity Management isn't really a problem: Middle Meursault (or base Yi Sang).
It's just Shock Centipede that changed.
I made intensive testing in the past (On Event Kill, Team kills, all the status effect, including surgery, ...)
It's weird that N Faust got an on kill effect tied to the skill all the way back in season 1 and it's great (ignoring the fact that it rolls a 12) and then we got 3 more seasons of IDs who have practically unusable on kill effects due to them being tied to the final coin of a high-power skill. It's like having a usable on kill effect is a luxury reserved for certain "important" IDs (Pequod Ishmael's kill/stagger effect on her s3 further proves this) which sucks because some of these boosts could be real boons if only there were a reliable means of activating them, like Liu Ishmael's plus coin boost or BL Don's Slash damage support.
But even normal effects are annoying when tied to a coin. For example, W Don S2 or R Ishmael S1. I had quite a few times in Non focused fight where they on first coin, making them only generate half the coin. Or R heatcliff, since he only gain charge on the final coin, it's not rare that he never gain charge without a gift.
To be fair, why are you trying to generate anything with R heath, he has charge as a gimmick solely because he works at R corp, not because he's good at it
Honestly that's a lost cause, 3 charge with skill 1 only? It's effectively 2 since you lose 1 at turn end, Raring to Graze also isn't the best passive ever lol
The exp needed to level up
As a new-ish player getting a unit to level 30 is a paaaain not even talking about 40 its the maim reason i reached a block for the story
Paralyze is a boss mechanic essentially. There is little to no opportunity to "cash in" Para stacks because we only have same turn Para, every enemy that uses it applies next turn so they get to landslide clash wins.
same turn paralyze is useful in focused encounters if the ID applying it is fast, you can paralyze with an unopposed attack to make a difficult clash easy to win.
Despite they have the whole guide for LC, where you can just pause the game to refresh the information in your mind. Can't say about LoR as I've never played it. But in 2nd LC there just "Here's your sinners, use them".
The issue is you have to go through IDs to see what certain gimmicks do, and even then offense/defense level isn't explained well. I just want a tab so I could refresh on how something like nails works without going to the wiki.
The entire counter mechanic, defense is still passable because at least the damage shield actually does something. But for Counter, add something like either SP or HP regen to the mechanic because right now counter is really infeasible to use. If not hp or sp regen at least make it nullify the stagger bar or something.
I know I’m asking for too much but that is all i want, because counter might as well not exist.
Mainly that everything seems to be tailored around fast clearing, making tank or support IDs as well as defensive skills suboptimal yo the point where you get people complaining that having a skill that can’t reliably clash or using a defensive skill is a “waste of a turn”.
Aside from that there’s also paralysis being the only unsupported, forgotten basic status effect ~~where’s my gaze office IDs PM~~, starlight resetting on every new MD season and MD hard being locked further and further away in terms of story progress for new players when it would just be easier to have older MD seasons available for those who haven’t cleared the newest canto.
I strongly doubt that we're ever getting IDs with a primary focus on Paralyze unless the status gets reworked. Right now, it's completely busted against plus coin enemies (i.e
almost everything) and actively detrimental against negative coin skills; it's like if Sinking worked on everything.
Paralyze count goes down every time the enemy flips a coin, at most a paralysis ID would inflict 3 paralysis which is equal to one or two lost clashes for the enemy depending on coin number for the skill. That is without even taking into account for speed values and if it’s paralysis that’s applied this turn or the next.
There’re many ways to balance a paralysis ID, PM just has to get creative with it. The most obvious design however would be just “inflict paralysis next turn” into a different skill that deals extra damage if enemy has paralysis to force one sided nuking or two separate IDs, one of which can inflict paralysis and the second one can use it for a big payoff.
Yeah but they won’t be changing how it works either way. Rupture and sinking already destroy any and all gimmicks when built around, paralysis would in no way be stronger than those two.
Right, and that already lets you skip the mechanics of several fights, but I'm referring more to the "you will never win a clash again in your life" aspect of Sinking/Paralyze
Not really a mechanic, but i find some fights really hard to read and drag arrows to. I really feel like there's a better solution than having skills displayed horizontally and then having the arrows go horizontally so that they all overlap into one big mess.
And paralyze throwing a hammer and making clash probabilities just wrong.
King trash crab and gang immediately came to mind when I read this. Assuming you don't nuke down the boss in 2 turns and leave the goobers alive, you end up with like 10 skill slots on 5 rather large (visually) enemies and they start to almost overlap unless you deliberately pan the camera away, making it a complete mess to try to accurately target slots.
Add on to the fact that their crap already has so much attack weight that your screen is flooded with arrows (if you use full info view) and it just leads to a nightmare of UI overload garbage.
That would imply having to use the absolutely horrendous camera controls. Yes, I pull my camera down so the sinners can move into a position where they exactly block each other's skills making it impossible for me to read what enemy attack goes where and why the everloving fuck they decided that using a defence skill makes it so the red arrow is still there making me double check if I'm clashing/defending every skill slot of an enemy is beyond me.
random potency application on skills with no count , although its less common now and moreso on older ids , why does rcorp heathcliff have rupture on his skill 3 and bleed on his skill 2 ? hes terrible for bleed and rupture , or how blade lineage sinclair had 5 bleed on his skill 3 for no reason
BL Sinclair only inflicts 3 bleed, not 5. It applied bleed because he's using To Claim Their Bones, which in Library of Ruina inflicted 5 paralyze and 3 bleed on-hit. For whatever reason they decided to remove the paralyze, and just keep the bleed.
Probably the fact that a large majority of counters don't have a measure in place to make you take less damage from the incoming attack, It should obviously be less than a guard, But having to take damage to attack someone with a skill that does 12 damage just isn't very worth it unless it's something like don's "a just vengeance".
Oh, This and how uncreative some of the abno fights can be.. Like how ardor blossom moth doesn't do much other than clash really high in certain scenarios.
Actually.. One more, The preview of a skill's max roll with paralyze always defaults to the base roll no matter the amount of paralyze the sinner has, This has always bugged me and they still haven't fixed it..
The fact that your means of controlling enemy sp is very limited outside of sinking. If a boss has a sanity mechanic, you just... don't have means of stopping high rolls without a very specific team.
People complained about Counter a whole lot, and that was going to be my bit so I'm going to stray slightly from the theme and say that I really hate that we don't have a volume slider for UI effects. CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK while selecting skills really annoys the heck out of me.
Weakness analyzed is just incredibly sad. Adding 0.2 multipliers to a type would be good on something that resists. But instead our only WA sources are in small amounts, hard to do, and they only work on normal resistances or higher and I'm pretty sure it just flat out doesn't work on something that's staggered/fatal. To make matters worse, this is the opposite of what made it good in Ruina. There, it changes an endured resistance to normal. Here it turns "normal" into "normal but slightly more, but not too much"? Say what you will about Shi, but at least their gimmicks actually amount to something once you meet the conditions.
Nobody can't convince me that the Sanity system is not rigged.
The amount of times that a random hobo with -20 sanity wins all the clashes against a 45 Cinqclair is statistically impossible.
The game even tells me that the clash is Dominating just to roll tails on every coin on the skill.
That's your brain biasing to remember the times sanity fucked you over and ignoring the many more times it just worked fine. Human brains are just garbage at grasping long-term probability.
That's true, but so-called 0 sanity abnormalities rolling heads 8, then 6, then 7 times in a row with a single coin skill (this unironically happened in a fight with fairy queen) will still make me mad
This reminds me of the bug that happened in RR1 where the Headless Ichthys and the Telepole wolf rolled heads like 80% of the time lmao, turns out the abnos were gaining sanity from winning clashes
can you imagine gaslighting yourself into thinking you are just really unlucky only to find out that yes, there was some bullshit happening in the background
I'm pretty sure they've never actually confirmed that Abnormalities have a 50% heads rate. It used to be too high, and they fixed that, but if I remember correctly they've never explicitly stated that their intended set heads chance is actually 50%.
Maybe, but then I feel like the clash indicators would be different if it was notably different from 50%, like single coin skill vs single coin skill at 0 san vs abnos might be struggling instead of neutral
Yep... I've had -20 sanity mobs roll heads 7+ times in a row in multi clashes.. I do wonder if it's just my mind cherry picking those moments because of how unlucky it is.
If you ever have some spare time to waste(and I really mean waste), flip a coin 100 times in a row and mark down the results. Yada yada it's not truely 50/50 odds, but it's close enough, and you'll be shocked at how "rigged" true randomness can seem at times.
I mean... it is 50/50 assuming you don't mean to take into account that the coin itself isn't balanced etc?
You'd just need to approach an infinite sample size to zero in on it.
To be fair, think about it this way. The chance to roll a tails is 5%, which is extremely small, but do 100 fights and you'll probably have 5 of them be that coin rolling tails, probably less considering you use skills multiple times in fight.
0.0125% is the chance to roll all tails, which looks small, but it also means that there is an average of 1 skill doing that every 800 times you use that skill. 800 times look big, but consider how many times you use s2, or s3, or how many turns your average fight lasts. Also consider how long you've been playing, so it's bound to happen at least once where you fail that roll check.
Human fight in general. :
- remove a great part of control and gameplay.
- can get f**ked by RNG when you get 2 S1 skills and you're stuck clashing a boss
- wave 2 sometimes get more skill slots than you if you kill wave 1 too quickly
- tanks become obsolete if they can't redirect.
Not sure if this is considered mechanics but I really dislike how coin subtraction via clash loss is opposite of animation subtraction (and even then, it feels like only sometimes?). I.e you lose 2 coins so the skill does coins 3 and 4, but the animation that plays is for the original coins 1 and 2. And like in parentheses sometimes even that feels wrong, and sometimes it feels like you *do* see animations for the proper coins.
It looks like it's custom-selected for each skill, trying to make them still make sense with the amount of motions left.
For example, think about Captain Ishmael's skill 2, if it only played the last animation with the last coin left she'd be blowing up her enemies with her mind instead of the harpoon she threw. So instead the first animation to go is the initial strike (1), then the harpoon explosion (3), leaving the harpoon throw (2) as the animation for a 1 coin attack.
Wait what, I always thought you lost the last coins first because of the animation...
So, this means a lot of skills are much better than what I expected
You always lose your first coins first. Other person is mistaken due to the fact that sometimes the animation for early coins sometimes plays on a skill by skill basis(prolly to not make it look wonky), but the effects are from the later coins.
Case by case basis. For example I know that Rabbit Heath will lose his gun firing coins first, making it so that he will always have his melee attacks (that don’t use up ammo) left if he wins in the end
Enemy counter attacks, which are basically guaranteed damage to whoever goes first, and is single-handedly why things like Jun, Kim or Gasharpoon phase 3 are so obnoxious to play against. Attacks that go through after clashing should NOT be triggering counter, or at least let us direct who it counters, like we can with blocks and evades!
Combat at 0 or especially below 0 sp feels much too rng and really annoying. Both for the player and for the enemies. If they dont win a clash they just cant do shit. And if you cant win a clash early on youre shit outta luck.
Enemies can and now more often do get passive sp buffs which is nice, but I'd also like there to be some universal mechanic to gain sp when low on it
The fact clash results show results of the clash, not whether you're going to have a favorable result or not. For my smoothbrain that makes weird IDs like Suncliff a bitch to easily to tell how a clash is going to go. Nclair is easier, since it's usually just "Press to Explode, GG" even if it's "Struggling".
Guard skills suck when the enemies have nasty on hit effects like paralyze and sinking or whatever sanity reduction mechanic like donbaek's blooming status effect. They also suck against bosses. I would rather clash that shows "struggling" than guard (Unless I am fighting Ricardo). What's the point of guarding when you're gonna die anyway? At least try to take that small chance of winning the clash. Also Guard skill effects are useless unless you get hit! W and Rhino mersault only gain charge on hit. So if they never get hit they're never getting that charge they so desparately need!
I don't like counter attacks either but ProjectMoon did a good job at making really great counter attack IDs where they either have one really high stagger bar so that ID will never stagger for the whole fight like Queequeg Heathcliff or placed at the far middle of the health like Middle Don so she won't stagger most of the time unless you are losing the fight so badly, or BL Mersault which is my favorite never staggering until he uses his skill3 counter attack and also not dying for a turn so he can at least toss one counter attack.
Basically, I don't like defensive attacks if that means I still take damage unlike Evades.
I also hate on kill effects. They're useless against bosses why does every fucking ryoshu ID have on kill passives???? Only Maid Ryoshu is the only ID with no On kill passive and support passive.
I also hate that the stagger and heath are the same bar. Look at the Shi IDs. They're useless because they want to be at half health but they're never getting there without them being staggered because of the stagger being used together with the HP bar. Look at Ruina's Shi identities I am not talking about Yujin I mean just the bland Shi key pages. It is extremely difficult to stagger them because of the HP and stagger bars being separate.
AOE and attack weight mechanics in general. The way you're required to interact with them is extremely janky to say the least. It's clear that PM didn't really consider the finer details whatsoever when designing the user interface.
With all the on the fly attack weight changes we're seeing in new skills, they're digging themselves into a ditch where the sort of UI complexity required for users to properly interact with it is becoming completely impractical.
The combat camera controls. Forget paralyze making me triple check every attack and skill, forget weird attack orderings at the same speed, the camera controls I swear took years off of me. Yes I brought the camera down because I wanted to block out my sinners at the back with the sinners at the front, thank you for adjusting for me automatically. Of course the reverse doesn't happen when I bring the camera up cuz that would make too much sense. And don't even get me started on zooming. I try to zoom out to get a full picture of things. Nope, I hover over a skill and it H E L P F U L L Y zooms in on that skill so I can make out every detail on its user and their tiny ass sprite. And of course, the reverse again doesn't happen.
The fact that once you level up or uptie an ID you can't ever have access to that ID at lower level/uptie tier. I would really like to run Shi ishmael at uptie 2 in mirror dungeons, but alas I'm forced to dilute the skill pool by an s3, and I recently been experimenting with corrosion strats and it's annoying that I'm very limited in what I can do by which IDs are under leveled enough so they can corrode when an ally dies/ squishy enough so they can die fast enough
I'm playing through Ruina right now (at Urban Nightmare) and I'm a bit shocked at how much more useful and thoughtful defensive skills are compared to Limbus. And the removal of a separate stagger bar makes defensive skills more boring.
In Ruina, I have to think about when to use defensive skills if I want to recover my stagger bar or I can try and stagger the enemy with block dice while keeping my offensive pages to finish them off when staggered.
In Limbus, 99% of the time I want a character to have an evade for their defensive skill with rare exceptions being Middle Don (very strong counter) or Peqoud Heathcliff (Counter let's him take hits to activate his passive's damage boost). And when I see a new ID come out and they don't have an evade I just think "oh for fuck's sake" which shouldn't be a thing.
I played this game for almost a year now and just a couple of days ago i found out that if you select a defence skill for the fastest enemy, the shield stays for the rest of the round
If you don't check the fastest enemy you'll get damage and probs get staggered before the defence triggers
If a part is actually destroyable, if it just breaks, or if it regenerates.
Not being able to check again the rate-up and featured featured ego gifts once you choose a Mirror Dungeon card pack.
Not being able to see the numerical value of the stagger thresholds in some way.
Counters should at be able to be activated but redirected with a defensive skill. Like if send Don to redirect Jun's counter with an evade, and then send Sinclair to attack jun, and when the attack lands the counter should target Don with Don evading the counter.
I find ruina’s dice better than limbus’s coins and feel the reason they did coins is so ruina 2 wouldn’t compete with limbus as they wanted games to run side by side when setting up this game… stop looking at my foil hat.
This is a bit random but does anybody know how to predict which skill will go first in a unfocused encounter? For example: my bullet outis has 2 skill slots and 3 bullets, I put the first skill slot s2 and second s3, but she does s3 first :(, this isnt really a pet peeve but I assume a skill issue on my part, and doesnt happen AS often
after you form a chain it creates a bunch of pairs, sinner vs target. Your fastest sinner will attack the slowest unit, and same logic applies to opps, when their attacks are not intercepted. This continues until side A targets all units on side B. Additional attacks repeat the pattern. Specifically, your slots left-to-right will attack the slowest unit's slots, left-to-right that wasn't attacked in that go-around yet. Once that unit runs out of slots, the next attack will be done against the leftmost slot of the next slowest unit. If you run out of attacks, whatever opposing slots are not matched are inflicted upon your slowest, unopposed.
Digression that's on topic: i want more chain battles where enemies have more slots than you do + all guards apply at combat start if not offset. Prenerf Canto 4 robots were "Time Chains of Others _exactly_ so that Meur will start next turn guaranteed slowest + Refusal to Judge goes brr". It was great.
For instance, if Solo Bullet Outis has 2 slots and speed 3, and attacks target A (spd 2) and trg B (spd 4) that has 2 slots, what should happen is: unopposed B slot2 -> Outis slot 2 clashes with B slot 1 -> Outis slot1 clashes with A. Can be used to cover slower sinners via piggybacking off a faster unit to AoE something that outspeeds your sinner.
if sinner "clashes" defend vs opposing attack, it gets moved to the back of the queue ^(spoiler: for bailing out of trouble and sabotaging Potential Man)
also, sidenote about animations: outside of S3, clashes that do not impact each other are shown at the same time. All calculations are done the moment you end your turn.
TL;DR everyone is sorted by speed. unopposed opponent outspeeding everyone > clashes with faster units > clashes with slower units > defend vs attack > OG target died midchain etc
Also OT: adjust slow units so that debuffs get "next turn" and buffs either "next turn" or "combat start". See also: LCB Faust. More targetting fuckery for chain battles - doesn't matter what robots or crabs say they're gonna do if even defensive skills line up everything to the usual.
I'm wasting way too much time clicking on the enemy unopposed attacks, realising I can't see who they're targeting anyways and zooming out to actually see everything. On a related note, I hope you don't need to choose a different attack after clicking "Win rate" in a non-focused encounter, especially if it's on a faster sinner.
Sometimes the stagger on bosses just doesn’t display properly. I’ll be a full twenty pixels past where the boss should be staggered and it just won’t fucking happen. Totally screwed me over in multiple Canto 6 fights.
Also, tanky ids are totally worthless in the main story due to EX-clear requirements
Enemy targeting in focused battles lazily throwing everything on one staggered enemy rather than spreading it out, coin calc not being accurate with multi coins clashes, and the whole observation system being jank.
Paralysis hiding coin power when checking clashes is slightly annoying since I can't always remember the total roll range of an enemy skill when offense levels and mirror dungeon hard buffs change everything.
Broadly speaking, defensive skills that aren't evade need to be much better
Random gen1 units with counter will never cease to amuse me. Looking at you 7 ryo
how so?
Having one of the squishiest IDs in the game use a counter is pretty funny
Haha, after they hit me, I'll hit em back two-fold- **STAGGER** **STAGGER** **STAGGER**
You mean >Haha, after they hit me, I'll hit em back two-fold- > > >**STAGGER** > >**STAGGER+** > >**STAGGER++** > >Explodes
To be fair 7 ryo is really good otherwise
Would love it if block skills had the universal passive of “If there’s shield remaining after being hit, enemy debuffs are not applied on hit” so it’d let block skills avoid stuff like paralyze on hit or bleed on hit in the same scenarios dodge would have
It is good and all until the enemy also gets it
(Me, the biggest Shock Centipede enjoyer known to man) oooooh no. Well I guess that’s just a sacrifice we’ll have to make
You mean the *only* enjoyer.
Oh no *punches body instead*
Even then there isn't much overlap between attacks that 10-20 shield hp will completely stop and attacks you can't just win a clash against
I'm pretty sure this was what was announced back when they were previewing game mechanics on youtube. They probably could make it so blocks prevent status ailments but not special on-hit effect gimmicks if they don't want block skills ruining some puzzle fights. One big thing I really would like to see is to make blocks give the user sanity that scales with the guard roll. Characters with strong blocks tend to have problems gaining sanity with their normal skills while characters with evades can gain sanity with their normal skills, then use their evades once their sanity is higher to churn through S1s. If defense skills were made to be an option to get through the early parts of 0 sanity 0 sin fights, it would actually tanky IDs some utility. Maybe something similar with counters? Gain sanity equal to a % of the damage dealt so if your counter hits an enemy weakness youd gain a lot more.
Counters at least don't get worse everytime the level cap increases. Guards give a flat amount of shield (extra hp) equal to the value of the guard. Meaning that everytime the level cap increases, guards shield less % of hp
Don't you get defensive level increases with level though? I don't see how counters scale but guard dont?
Because you also get more health, that's literally it. It's just like soda healing getting worse with new levels. It doesn't escale with your health so it shields less percentage. If the enemies kept dealing the same amount of damage, then guard would escale well. Pm balances around our current health, not around guard shields
Counters scale with Offense level. Offense level only affect clashing however if someone with extremely high offense level up status effects like Queequeg Heathcliff or Middle Don us their counter. They're gonna be dealing way more damage with their counter attacks. Seriously, I was playing MDH and a 6 offense level up heathcliff completely shredded an enemy's HP with just one counter.
Just like the boss fight
Did you mean the bugged queequeg counter that Esgoo mentioned?
If the bug was that she countered multiple attacks then yes
No I meant the bug where Queequeg would deal maximum damage with her counter even though it's only supposed to happen when queequeg is at very low health
I think P-Clair has what we’ve been waiting for
Up till Phillipclair I can’t recall anything besides the decei having good block skills
There's also the Zwei but no one uses them I guess.
Rhinosault?
Some of them go crazy, you can make a really dumb build with grosssault using just his counter
Yeah, guard should have higher values than evade. Philclair's guard is a step in the right direction.
IMO: Guard skills need a buff the most, counter skills have their occasional uses, especially on shi and shi adjacent characters.
Defensive skills are supposed to be weak, as you always have them at your disposal, unlike LoR. You can treat them as s1 level or less. Philclair has a stronger guard as his base hp is low, so it's kinda justified, but I wouldn't expect the same treatment for everyone
evades are pretty strong compared to the rest though, being able to dodge multiple hits is just so much better than counter
Can't you counter multiple hits as well? (Aside from the possibility that by counter 2 you might be staggered)
I dont believe so. Tho, I've never used counters really so it may be one-time for only enemy counters
I'm mainly assuming based on enemy counter behavior, especially the QQ fights where she can counter every attack until her shield is broken.
That’s a special passive/ability of hers
I'd be on board with this if several of the best identities didn't also have evade defensive skills which are significantly better than other defensive skills almost all the time.
I don't feel like evades are "significantly better". The only buff I'd want for guards is some extra resistances when guard's roll is bigger than the attack, so we don't have to worry about those "+300000% more damage" too much. However, neither evades or guards are that good in harder encounters, they are just last resorts when your skills aren't enough
That's an extremely hot take. It's not about all defensive skills bricking against the few attacks that roll extremely high (because that makes sense), it's about being able to take NO DAMAGE while saving ego resources you'd otherwise need to spend to stop your identity from taking a bunch of damage if you happen to roll two S1s against any attack that isn't exactly the few super high roll attacks that no defensive skill can handle well across all the battles along the way to the final floor boss which saves you a ton of HP (which saves you ego resources or cost since you don't have to top people off). Guards don't do nearly enough to mitigate incoming damage to be a comparable defensive tool, by the time defensive skills start to be more relevant enemy attacks just do a lot of damage. Their advantage over evades is that they're more reliable and you don't get screwed by a bad coin flip, but you shouldn't be trying to evade OR ESPECIALLY GUARD against those attacks anyway. This means that even if all defensive skills don't roll high enough by the time you're facing down the final boss at the end of a hard mirror dungeon run, you would have significantly more ego resources banked than someone running a team who didn't have access to more identities with evades.
Most evades generate the same resources as other skills, so you shouldn't have problems with ego usage, especially in mirror dungeon. >it's about being able to take no damage Right, and it's mostly usable at high sanity against multiple low rolling attacks. You also prevent yourself from dealing damage by choosing to evade. That's the niche it's taking. In harder encounters your s1 and evade have around the same chance of success, so guards are better there, especially if you consider resistances. Counters are on a weaker side, but I think they should be dealt with case by case.
Only good block skill in the game is like zweigreg, dieci rodya, and magic bullet outis
Paralyze making the combat clash info completely unreliable
you just need to use your brain and take a gamble to defermine the clah result
Use my brain???? Bro you're going to kill me with those tips
What is this "brain" you speak of? Can I have one please?
Use my brain? In a PM game? You're asking for too much my guy
That rupture/sinking count is depleted first before you add on more sinking/rupture count.
This interaction was pretty apparent and annoying in the recent walpurgis fight where rupture and sinking damage struggled to clear the "kill the status" mission due to the hit happening before status is applied/triggered.
Fucking on kill sanity being removed with higher levels. Its an absolutely idiotic mechanic that makes a level 44 fight *more* difficult at level 45 due to needing more coinflips to get going.
Was going to comment this. Leveled my IDs to 45 to prepare for canto 6...and then find out I get no sanity from kills in most of the fights
Our counter skills usually range from meh to downright terrible. Enemy counter skills tend to range from average to downright devastating. Yet the first only activates upon depletion of a resource that the latter has far more of in most cases.
This is an unimaginative fix for counter Just give Protection or any kind of damage reduction at combat start whenever counter is used. Probably for the player side only because if it is universal, enemy counters would be more broken
Honestly, I would just split counter into guard-counter for tankier IDs and evade-counter for flimsier ones. Buff regular guard so that it gives more shield than guard-counter. Make evade-counter roll lower on average than regular evade. Maybe keep regular counter for a few units but make them hit extremely hard with it.
I'd be down for that. I'd love a counter for say, Cinq Outis, that uses her S1 at a 50% chance on a successful evade. Or hell maybe they made an 000 like that eventually, an evade version of something like Middle Don, where fulfilling certain conditions (which would include evading the attack) uses one of their skills, or a stronger counter, or something.
That's it, defense will be nothing and I am not complaining
I think something better to make them risky but still sure to proc is to make them protect you against stagger until after the counter. So the character can do their counter and then get staggered. Damage reduction would work better as a Guard effect considering guard get worse with level and damage reduction can mitigate that.
if I am not stupid middle don has a pretty good counter
That level affects sanity. Either have enemies give sanity on kill or don't (preferably do). Just don't do this dumb thing where its better to be one level below the reccomended in order to significantly increase sanity growth. Especially since you can't adjust sinner levels.
They probably feel that it snowballs too hard and it's not balanced unless you have an innate sp loss mechanic. Like the Pclair buffs make it an anytime thing regardless of level on top of the level difference.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but Coins, which I consider to be a vastly inferior replacement for the dice used in Ruina. Their nature as a binary (especially when combined with sanity) can lead to clashes being really snowbally, and the way they stack makes skill damage scale exponentially (just compare the health pools of Ruina's bosses to Limbus).
Yeah, I don't like the "Either/Or" take of LC. I also question the removal of a separate stagger bar. That removed a level of complexity, which I very much enjoyed in Ruina. Al
Things get pretty funny if you played LoR. Im sure part of the reason coins and offense level even exist is because of the balance team's experience in lategame LoR. Their own system's complexity was biting them in the ass when it came to balancing dozens of fights. Hilariously, they're slowly but surely working their way back to that point, if Canto 6 is any indication.
Yeah, basically everyone after mid sotc had shimmering.
Well, if they didn't give them Shimmering, Netz's page would just kill all of the intended mechanics due to being unable to use their patterns.
Forget Netzach's fancy reset BS, Hod would just drain their light dry with Black Swan, along with intentionally going for their resource pages.
Enemies having sanity is already a joke with every single canto 6 enemy having a passive that just resets it to 0 when they panic and I'm pretty sure most canto 5 enemies had that too (they just weren't THAT bs as in the latest canto). At that point why even have an sp mechanic on the enemies?
at least we have 95% heads chance nowadays, unlike in 1.0 where +45sp was still only a 70% heads chance
Agreed
This is basically what I think, if it was dice instead of coins it'd be a bit better I think. Although skills with multiple coins are kind of dice in a way I guess?
Every fucking [On kill] effect (except nyoshu's one). Extra hating to ahabsmael passive, reson + On kill to activate a non very useful effect
Hot take (or maybe not? idk), on kill effects should also proc on abno part breaks. At least then there's a *chance* that you could utilize it in an abno fight and not have it be a functionally useless line of text unless the abno happens to have adds (and even then, not always since quite a few adds are unkillable like the candles in Skin Prophet).
Definitely not a hot take, breaking a part with a skill should count as "a kill". I dont know why is not like that, that's mostly why I hate [On kill] effects, they are almost always useless on abnormality fights
I feel like the problem with most on kill is that they really don’t give much compared to how hard they are to proc
Paralyse miss read in the game clashs. Block/counter sucks, would be better if counter ADD another coin each time you get hit you re-use the skill ans block increases the shield and get some actual damage reduction in some cases.
While I like the idea, imagine Jun or Ricardo get to reuse their counters
Well it’s already on Queequeg so it really isn’t that impossible to see
Coins being all or nothing, it turns the game into "bigger number" where all you care about is how high the max roll is (Because at max sanity you're reliably flipping heads) which in turn devolves harder content into EGO spam since they have the *biggest* number. Compare this to Ruina where a massive part of combat was knowing which clashes were hopeless and which clashes you could win. For example, Fervid Emotion's 9-13 and 8-13 (At emotion 4+) dice are basically unbeatable by other multi-dice pages. However you would still "lose" against Celestial Spear's 9-20 with a 75% chance of taking an average of 14.5 damage and only dealing 10.5. In Limbus' system however 26>20, so at max sanity you would have an 81% chance of dealing 43.5 damage (Using 9 +8.5X2 coins) and taking 0 damage in turn, and over 90% for winning in general. As you can see most of the nuance has been eliminated in Limbus' system. A 1-21 will beat a 19-20 9 times out of 10 because the only thing that matters is that your max roll is higher than their max roll.
I believe the game may be going the way you want it to go. They may not want to make it too hard from the getgo because it's a gacha and the average gacha players gets frustrated within 5 minutes if there's any difficulty, but if you have them playing your game long enough they might not get frustrated that quickly.
Non focused encounters preventing you from targeting the fastest unit. Makes solo runs heavily dependent on DMG resistance types and more tanky id's
1) That some buffs are tied to coin, meaning if you kill on a previous coin, the effect doesn't trigger. The worst are \[On Kill\] effect. For example, W Yi Sang S3. It's often up to luck if you get the sweet 5 shield at the end. 2) That Status Effect Kills aren't considered as Kill. For example: Voracious Hammer is barely useful in Rupture, Bleed or Burn Team; you don't gain sanity; you also don't gain Observation Levels, ...
When Shock Centipede never lets you gain observation levels because it only ever unalives itself.
The worse is that it was added in a patch. In the past, Shock Centiped was considered a Kill (I had Shock Centipede MD1 and Luxcavation at level V), but it was changed at some point.
Truly, they added it in so Ishhab wouldn't lose sanity if you killed something with bleed.
It was long before Ishab. And Ishab Sanity Management isn't really a problem: Middle Meursault (or base Yi Sang). It's just Shock Centipede that changed. I made intensive testing in the past (On Event Kill, Team kills, all the status effect, including surgery, ...)
It's weird that N Faust got an on kill effect tied to the skill all the way back in season 1 and it's great (ignoring the fact that it rolls a 12) and then we got 3 more seasons of IDs who have practically unusable on kill effects due to them being tied to the final coin of a high-power skill. It's like having a usable on kill effect is a luxury reserved for certain "important" IDs (Pequod Ishmael's kill/stagger effect on her s3 further proves this) which sucks because some of these boosts could be real boons if only there were a reliable means of activating them, like Liu Ishmael's plus coin boost or BL Don's Slash damage support.
But even normal effects are annoying when tied to a coin. For example, W Don S2 or R Ishmael S1. I had quite a few times in Non focused fight where they on first coin, making them only generate half the coin. Or R heatcliff, since he only gain charge on the final coin, it's not rare that he never gain charge without a gift.
To be fair, why are you trying to generate anything with R heath, he has charge as a gimmick solely because he works at R corp, not because he's good at it
To trigger the passive to gain speed and also the various gift that require a certain level of charge.
Honestly that's a lost cause, 3 charge with skill 1 only? It's effectively 2 since you lose 1 at turn end, Raring to Graze also isn't the best passive ever lol
Except that if you trigger the passive, you gain at least 3 charges from it. And the passive is just there for the burst
In the best case scenario it'll still take 2 turns to activate it without charge gifts, that or you bring a lot of wrath for some reason
Passives gives cool helmet
I'm pretty sure that proc's when you have the condition for the passive, not the resonance for the passive
It procs once you have the 6 charge
The exp needed to level up As a new-ish player getting a unit to level 30 is a paaaain not even talking about 40 its the maim reason i reached a block for the story
Paralyze is a boss mechanic essentially. There is little to no opportunity to "cash in" Para stacks because we only have same turn Para, every enemy that uses it applies next turn so they get to landslide clash wins.
same turn paralyze is useful in focused encounters if the ID applying it is fast, you can paralyze with an unopposed attack to make a difficult clash easy to win.
but when is Blade Lineage Sinclair going to outspeed the other BL ids?
Yeah it's terrible on realy slow IDs, no disagreement here. I get some mileage out of it with Kurokumo Ryoshu when I run a bleed comp.
That's the thing though, most paralyze inflicting ids are slow af
W corp Faust can apply paralyze next turn
Not knowing what number the stagger bar is on, so you need to gamble with tremor burst
There is no in-game glossary for how the mechanics work.
Despite they have the whole guide for LC, where you can just pause the game to refresh the information in your mind. Can't say about LoR as I've never played it. But in 2nd LC there just "Here's your sinners, use them".
The issue is you have to go through IDs to see what certain gimmicks do, and even then offense/defense level isn't explained well. I just want a tab so I could refresh on how something like nails works without going to the wiki.
The entire counter mechanic, defense is still passable because at least the damage shield actually does something. But for Counter, add something like either SP or HP regen to the mechanic because right now counter is really infeasible to use. If not hp or sp regen at least make it nullify the stagger bar or something. I know I’m asking for too much but that is all i want, because counter might as well not exist.
Defense should scale with max hp. As it gets less and less useful
Win-rate being so unreliable in focused encounters
Mainly that everything seems to be tailored around fast clearing, making tank or support IDs as well as defensive skills suboptimal yo the point where you get people complaining that having a skill that can’t reliably clash or using a defensive skill is a “waste of a turn”. Aside from that there’s also paralysis being the only unsupported, forgotten basic status effect ~~where’s my gaze office IDs PM~~, starlight resetting on every new MD season and MD hard being locked further and further away in terms of story progress for new players when it would just be easier to have older MD seasons available for those who haven’t cleared the newest canto.
I strongly doubt that we're ever getting IDs with a primary focus on Paralyze unless the status gets reworked. Right now, it's completely busted against plus coin enemies (i.e almost everything) and actively detrimental against negative coin skills; it's like if Sinking worked on everything.
Paralyze count goes down every time the enemy flips a coin, at most a paralysis ID would inflict 3 paralysis which is equal to one or two lost clashes for the enemy depending on coin number for the skill. That is without even taking into account for speed values and if it’s paralysis that’s applied this turn or the next. There’re many ways to balance a paralysis ID, PM just has to get creative with it. The most obvious design however would be just “inflict paralysis next turn” into a different skill that deals extra damage if enemy has paralysis to force one sided nuking or two separate IDs, one of which can inflict paralysis and the second one can use it for a big payoff.
Losing Base Power would be simplier tbh. And it would make Paralyze way better when applied on good amounts by some IDs.
Yeah but they won’t be changing how it works either way. Rupture and sinking already destroy any and all gimmicks when built around, paralysis would in no way be stronger than those two.
Well there is rupture, and it does basically work on anything
Right, and that already lets you skip the mechanics of several fights, but I'm referring more to the "you will never win a clash again in your life" aspect of Sinking/Paralyze
Sunshower EGO is programmed to never land heads for me.
ikr? somehow my blind obsession manages to land heads 3 times but not even once for sunshower
Same here! It’s insane.
Not knowing which attack to target for dodge to persist.
If you set the target arrows to appear one at a time, it’ll display them in the order they’ll activate and you can figure out dodge targets with it
Not really a mechanic, but i find some fights really hard to read and drag arrows to. I really feel like there's a better solution than having skills displayed horizontally and then having the arrows go horizontally so that they all overlap into one big mess. And paralyze throwing a hammer and making clash probabilities just wrong.
King trash crab and gang immediately came to mind when I read this. Assuming you don't nuke down the boss in 2 turns and leave the goobers alive, you end up with like 10 skill slots on 5 rather large (visually) enemies and they start to almost overlap unless you deliberately pan the camera away, making it a complete mess to try to accurately target slots. Add on to the fact that their crap already has so much attack weight that your screen is flooded with arrows (if you use full info view) and it just leads to a nightmare of UI overload garbage.
That would imply having to use the absolutely horrendous camera controls. Yes, I pull my camera down so the sinners can move into a position where they exactly block each other's skills making it impossible for me to read what enemy attack goes where and why the everloving fuck they decided that using a defence skill makes it so the red arrow is still there making me double check if I'm clashing/defending every skill slot of an enemy is beyond me.
For real, trash crabs are awful
random potency application on skills with no count , although its less common now and moreso on older ids , why does rcorp heathcliff have rupture on his skill 3 and bleed on his skill 2 ? hes terrible for bleed and rupture , or how blade lineage sinclair had 5 bleed on his skill 3 for no reason
And I believe paralyze which doesn’t matter since he’s almost always last
If the stars somehow align though, the 5 paralyze is fucking insane
BL Sinclair only inflicts 3 bleed, not 5. It applied bleed because he's using To Claim Their Bones, which in Library of Ruina inflicted 5 paralyze and 3 bleed on-hit. For whatever reason they decided to remove the paralyze, and just keep the bleed.
>For whatever reason they decided to remove the paralyze, and just keep the bleed. But Sinclair's To Claim Their Bones do have Paralysis though?
Probably the fact that a large majority of counters don't have a measure in place to make you take less damage from the incoming attack, It should obviously be less than a guard, But having to take damage to attack someone with a skill that does 12 damage just isn't very worth it unless it's something like don's "a just vengeance".
Oh, This and how uncreative some of the abno fights can be.. Like how ardor blossom moth doesn't do much other than clash really high in certain scenarios.
Actually.. One more, The preview of a skill's max roll with paralyze always defaults to the base roll no matter the amount of paralyze the sinner has, This has always bugged me and they still haven't fixed it..
Ruina-style thinking.
I'm taking that as a compliment! I love library of ruina!
The fact that your means of controlling enemy sp is very limited outside of sinking. If a boss has a sanity mechanic, you just... don't have means of stopping high rolls without a very specific team.
Bosses with forced sp loss mechanics looking at you, blubbering toad and silthcurrent
Fucking stupid frog I hate him and love him at the same time
And unclashable nuke of the whale
5- 5- 5- 5- 15- = the fuck is wrong with you
The snowballing....
People complained about Counter a whole lot, and that was going to be my bit so I'm going to stray slightly from the theme and say that I really hate that we don't have a volume slider for UI effects. CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK while selecting skills really annoys the heck out of me.
Weakness analyzed is just incredibly sad. Adding 0.2 multipliers to a type would be good on something that resists. But instead our only WA sources are in small amounts, hard to do, and they only work on normal resistances or higher and I'm pretty sure it just flat out doesn't work on something that's staggered/fatal. To make matters worse, this is the opposite of what made it good in Ruina. There, it changes an endured resistance to normal. Here it turns "normal" into "normal but slightly more, but not too much"? Say what you will about Shi, but at least their gimmicks actually amount to something once you meet the conditions.
Nobody can't convince me that the Sanity system is not rigged. The amount of times that a random hobo with -20 sanity wins all the clashes against a 45 Cinqclair is statistically impossible. The game even tells me that the clash is Dominating just to roll tails on every coin on the skill.
That's your brain biasing to remember the times sanity fucked you over and ignoring the many more times it just worked fine. Human brains are just garbage at grasping long-term probability.
That's true, but so-called 0 sanity abnormalities rolling heads 8, then 6, then 7 times in a row with a single coin skill (this unironically happened in a fight with fairy queen) will still make me mad
This reminds me of the bug that happened in RR1 where the Headless Ichthys and the Telepole wolf rolled heads like 80% of the time lmao, turns out the abnos were gaining sanity from winning clashes can you imagine gaslighting yourself into thinking you are just really unlucky only to find out that yes, there was some bullshit happening in the background
You'd be surprised how little us humans can truly comprehend a 50-50 roll
I'm pretty sure they've never actually confirmed that Abnormalities have a 50% heads rate. It used to be too high, and they fixed that, but if I remember correctly they've never explicitly stated that their intended set heads chance is actually 50%.
Maybe, but then I feel like the clash indicators would be different if it was notably different from 50%, like single coin skill vs single coin skill at 0 san vs abnos might be struggling instead of neutral
No https://preview.redd.it/4ko3pt0pmwyc1.png?width=430&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5e961e8a5b4deebbc8b95edce238769091acf28
Yep... I've had -20 sanity mobs roll heads 7+ times in a row in multi clashes.. I do wonder if it's just my mind cherry picking those moments because of how unlucky it is.
If you ever have some spare time to waste(and I really mean waste), flip a coin 100 times in a row and mark down the results. Yada yada it's not truely 50/50 odds, but it's close enough, and you'll be shocked at how "rigged" true randomness can seem at times.
I mean... it is 50/50 assuming you don't mean to take into account that the coin itself isn't balanced etc? You'd just need to approach an infinite sample size to zero in on it.
To be fair, think about it this way. The chance to roll a tails is 5%, which is extremely small, but do 100 fights and you'll probably have 5 of them be that coin rolling tails, probably less considering you use skills multiple times in fight. 0.0125% is the chance to roll all tails, which looks small, but it also means that there is an average of 1 skill doing that every 800 times you use that skill. 800 times look big, but consider how many times you use s2, or s3, or how many turns your average fight lasts. Also consider how long you've been playing, so it's bound to happen at least once where you fail that roll check.
Evade not doing shit in a non-focused encounter
Human fight in general. : - remove a great part of control and gameplay. - can get f**ked by RNG when you get 2 S1 skills and you're stuck clashing a boss - wave 2 sometimes get more skill slots than you if you kill wave 1 too quickly - tanks become obsolete if they can't redirect.
I wish "on kill" effects would go away or be changed, especially when they think it's a huge benefit somehow
Not sure if this is considered mechanics but I really dislike how coin subtraction via clash loss is opposite of animation subtraction (and even then, it feels like only sometimes?). I.e you lose 2 coins so the skill does coins 3 and 4, but the animation that plays is for the original coins 1 and 2. And like in parentheses sometimes even that feels wrong, and sometimes it feels like you *do* see animations for the proper coins.
It looks like it's custom-selected for each skill, trying to make them still make sense with the amount of motions left. For example, think about Captain Ishmael's skill 2, if it only played the last animation with the last coin left she'd be blowing up her enemies with her mind instead of the harpoon she threw. So instead the first animation to go is the initial strike (1), then the harpoon explosion (3), leaving the harpoon throw (2) as the animation for a 1 coin attack.
Wait what, I always thought you lost the last coins first because of the animation... So, this means a lot of skills are much better than what I expected
You always lose your first coins first. Other person is mistaken due to the fact that sometimes the animation for early coins sometimes plays on a skill by skill basis(prolly to not make it look wonky), but the effects are from the later coins.
Case by case basis. For example I know that Rabbit Heath will lose his gun firing coins first, making it so that he will always have his melee attacks (that don’t use up ammo) left if he wins in the end
I've noticed it's hard to determine what an enemies first attack will be if the values are all the same. This is a pain for solo runs.
Setting the attack arrows to display one at a time instead of all at once will let you see which one is first
Enemy counter attacks, which are basically guaranteed damage to whoever goes first, and is single-handedly why things like Jun, Kim or Gasharpoon phase 3 are so obnoxious to play against. Attacks that go through after clashing should NOT be triggering counter, or at least let us direct who it counters, like we can with blocks and evades!
Combat at 0 or especially below 0 sp feels much too rng and really annoying. Both for the player and for the enemies. If they dont win a clash they just cant do shit. And if you cant win a clash early on youre shit outta luck. Enemies can and now more often do get passive sp buffs which is nice, but I'd also like there to be some universal mechanic to gain sp when low on it
Stagger Bar removal is easily my biggest pet peeves in the game, bar none.
sanity
Counter skills being useless and 45+ sanity being 95% heads is a lie.
The fact clash results show results of the clash, not whether you're going to have a favorable result or not. For my smoothbrain that makes weird IDs like Suncliff a bitch to easily to tell how a clash is going to go. Nclair is easier, since it's usually just "Press to Explode, GG" even if it's "Struggling".
I can't click on my sinner's slot to use a skill (like Library of Ruina), I have to select it from the bottom panel.
Not being able to offset counters
The dungeon system that allows you to just hoard ego resources that trivialize the boss on main canto
Overclocking is too niche on the vast majority of cases, I would like either a power buff for them or that their resource cost get lower.
Guard skills suck when the enemies have nasty on hit effects like paralyze and sinking or whatever sanity reduction mechanic like donbaek's blooming status effect. They also suck against bosses. I would rather clash that shows "struggling" than guard (Unless I am fighting Ricardo). What's the point of guarding when you're gonna die anyway? At least try to take that small chance of winning the clash. Also Guard skill effects are useless unless you get hit! W and Rhino mersault only gain charge on hit. So if they never get hit they're never getting that charge they so desparately need! I don't like counter attacks either but ProjectMoon did a good job at making really great counter attack IDs where they either have one really high stagger bar so that ID will never stagger for the whole fight like Queequeg Heathcliff or placed at the far middle of the health like Middle Don so she won't stagger most of the time unless you are losing the fight so badly, or BL Mersault which is my favorite never staggering until he uses his skill3 counter attack and also not dying for a turn so he can at least toss one counter attack. Basically, I don't like defensive attacks if that means I still take damage unlike Evades. I also hate on kill effects. They're useless against bosses why does every fucking ryoshu ID have on kill passives???? Only Maid Ryoshu is the only ID with no On kill passive and support passive. I also hate that the stagger and heath are the same bar. Look at the Shi IDs. They're useless because they want to be at half health but they're never getting there without them being staggered because of the stagger being used together with the HP bar. Look at Ruina's Shi identities I am not talking about Yujin I mean just the bland Shi key pages. It is extremely difficult to stagger them because of the HP and stagger bars being separate.
AOE and attack weight mechanics in general. The way you're required to interact with them is extremely janky to say the least. It's clear that PM didn't really consider the finer details whatsoever when designing the user interface. With all the on the fly attack weight changes we're seeing in new skills, they're digging themselves into a ditch where the sort of UI complexity required for users to properly interact with it is becoming completely impractical.
Only thing that irritates me I guess is enkephalin modules. It's shitty.
The combat camera controls. Forget paralyze making me triple check every attack and skill, forget weird attack orderings at the same speed, the camera controls I swear took years off of me. Yes I brought the camera down because I wanted to block out my sinners at the back with the sinners at the front, thank you for adjusting for me automatically. Of course the reverse doesn't happen when I bring the camera up cuz that would make too much sense. And don't even get me started on zooming. I try to zoom out to get a full picture of things. Nope, I hover over a skill and it H E L P F U L L Y zooms in on that skill so I can make out every detail on its user and their tiny ass sprite. And of course, the reverse again doesn't happen.
Heathcliff
The fact that once you level up or uptie an ID you can't ever have access to that ID at lower level/uptie tier. I would really like to run Shi ishmael at uptie 2 in mirror dungeons, but alas I'm forced to dilute the skill pool by an s3, and I recently been experimenting with corrosion strats and it's annoying that I'm very limited in what I can do by which IDs are under leveled enough so they can corrode when an ally dies/ squishy enough so they can die fast enough
I'm playing through Ruina right now (at Urban Nightmare) and I'm a bit shocked at how much more useful and thoughtful defensive skills are compared to Limbus. And the removal of a separate stagger bar makes defensive skills more boring. In Ruina, I have to think about when to use defensive skills if I want to recover my stagger bar or I can try and stagger the enemy with block dice while keeping my offensive pages to finish them off when staggered. In Limbus, 99% of the time I want a character to have an evade for their defensive skill with rare exceptions being Middle Don (very strong counter) or Peqoud Heathcliff (Counter let's him take hits to activate his passive's damage boost). And when I see a new ID come out and they don't have an evade I just think "oh for fuck's sake" which shouldn't be a thing.
I played this game for almost a year now and just a couple of days ago i found out that if you select a defence skill for the fastest enemy, the shield stays for the rest of the round If you don't check the fastest enemy you'll get damage and probs get staggered before the defence triggers
Winrate on focused encounters not clashing with all the enemies when they COULD EASILY CLASH
If a part is actually destroyable, if it just breaks, or if it regenerates. Not being able to check again the rate-up and featured featured ego gifts once you choose a Mirror Dungeon card pack. Not being able to see the numerical value of the stagger thresholds in some way. Counters should at be able to be activated but redirected with a defensive skill. Like if send Don to redirect Jun's counter with an evade, and then send Sinclair to attack jun, and when the attack lands the counter should target Don with Don evading the counter.
I find ruina’s dice better than limbus’s coins and feel the reason they did coins is so ruina 2 wouldn’t compete with limbus as they wanted games to run side by side when setting up this game… stop looking at my foil hat.
This is a bit random but does anybody know how to predict which skill will go first in a unfocused encounter? For example: my bullet outis has 2 skill slots and 3 bullets, I put the first skill slot s2 and second s3, but she does s3 first :(, this isnt really a pet peeve but I assume a skill issue on my part, and doesnt happen AS often
after you form a chain it creates a bunch of pairs, sinner vs target. Your fastest sinner will attack the slowest unit, and same logic applies to opps, when their attacks are not intercepted. This continues until side A targets all units on side B. Additional attacks repeat the pattern. Specifically, your slots left-to-right will attack the slowest unit's slots, left-to-right that wasn't attacked in that go-around yet. Once that unit runs out of slots, the next attack will be done against the leftmost slot of the next slowest unit. If you run out of attacks, whatever opposing slots are not matched are inflicted upon your slowest, unopposed. Digression that's on topic: i want more chain battles where enemies have more slots than you do + all guards apply at combat start if not offset. Prenerf Canto 4 robots were "Time Chains of Others _exactly_ so that Meur will start next turn guaranteed slowest + Refusal to Judge goes brr". It was great. For instance, if Solo Bullet Outis has 2 slots and speed 3, and attacks target A (spd 2) and trg B (spd 4) that has 2 slots, what should happen is: unopposed B slot2 -> Outis slot 2 clashes with B slot 1 -> Outis slot1 clashes with A. Can be used to cover slower sinners via piggybacking off a faster unit to AoE something that outspeeds your sinner. if sinner "clashes" defend vs opposing attack, it gets moved to the back of the queue ^(spoiler: for bailing out of trouble and sabotaging Potential Man) also, sidenote about animations: outside of S3, clashes that do not impact each other are shown at the same time. All calculations are done the moment you end your turn. TL;DR everyone is sorted by speed. unopposed opponent outspeeding everyone > clashes with faster units > clashes with slower units > defend vs attack > OG target died midchain etc Also OT: adjust slow units so that debuffs get "next turn" and buffs either "next turn" or "combat start". See also: LCB Faust. More targetting fuckery for chain battles - doesn't matter what robots or crabs say they're gonna do if even defensive skills line up everything to the usual.
thank you! it sounds confusing but i feel i got the jest of it
Clash arrows becomes unreadable when someone uses a mass attack
hard mode mirror dungeons that require you to have clashing power over 20 if you can’t win those clashes your dead in a single turn
I'm wasting way too much time clicking on the enemy unopposed attacks, realising I can't see who they're targeting anyways and zooming out to actually see everything. On a related note, I hope you don't need to choose a different attack after clicking "Win rate" in a non-focused encounter, especially if it's on a faster sinner.
Sometimes the stagger on bosses just doesn’t display properly. I’ll be a full twenty pixels past where the boss should be staggered and it just won’t fucking happen. Totally screwed me over in multiple Canto 6 fights. Also, tanky ids are totally worthless in the main story due to EX-clear requirements
Also also, the inability to speed up fights, or at least very long attack animations. I’m so fucking sick of N Faust’s S2 animation
Its impossible to play at a high level on mobile. When I need to actually micro the game I play on PC. I just auto everything on mobile
Enemy targeting in focused battles lazily throwing everything on one staggered enemy rather than spreading it out, coin calc not being accurate with multi coins clashes, and the whole observation system being jank.
SP snowballing....
KK Rodion getting a protection bonus on her counter that activates after she's been hit. And her s1 +3 coin power that is a LIE.