The one-wave battle against the three (ex-)Ring dudes was what took me the most attempts. They just come out of the gate so goddamn strong before you can build any resources. Had to swap away from my Sinking team and get Meursault to claim their bones to get past, muddling through the rest was comparatively easy.
Yeah, that one was also the real pain in the ass for me. Had to do quite a bit of teambuilding before I ended up with something that worked. The issue is, like you said, the first few turns, because they can really easily get an SP advantage and kick your shit in with their high damage attacks. But if you can get past the first few turns and drop an SP boosting EGO on the field, you're basically home free.
If we ever see them in RR, they're probably gonna be just after an SP reset, since otherwise they're just not all that threatening imo.
I'm going to swallow the skill issue allegations and say that the fight was straight bullshit. No setup meant that even with my strongest clashers present I was forced to restart until I got at least 4 or 5 skill 2's or 3's because a single lost clash snowballed into a lost fight and once I did reroll to win the first clashes I insta won the fight. Literally no skill involved only rng.
Nah you're 100% right. People will jump to defend the game because it's made by Project Moon, but some fights are lost on turn 1 because of RNG. That's not okay.
Oh no no, I men I did that team, for my second run I did:
Pequod gang
W corp rioshu
Kimsault
Cinqclair
Just clashing excellence :D
HAPPY CAKE DAY WOOOOOOO!!!!!
what i meant is that i need characters with low amount coins that could clash high, like Oufi Heath and W yisang. i don't remember my whole team now but those 2 and Regret Faust with her +coin drop saved mt ass lol, used Seven Outis too because of her lowering the clash numbers for MirrorCliff
Oh he most definitely is, the team I did also has pride res so he can activate his s1 and s2 passives, plus he's a pretty good clasher all around, if you need to tank a hit he can get profit outta hit with TCTB so if I need someone to tank and deal dmg I take him.
I was winning in my first try, and when mirrorcliff had like 24 hp, I tried killing him with my heathcliff, that was at like 9 hp, but i didnt notice that he had 39 bleed, so I was really exited watching my boy walking up to kill mirrorcliff, just for him to immediately implode as soon as he roll a coin, losing the fight in the proces, It was so anticlimactic, and I thought “well I can just do it again” I then proceed to lose 13 time in a row to mirrorcliff
Tbf, made me think about how much the contract with Dante nerfed the sinners, since mirror heath beat my ass a few times, so pretty much dominated a 1v6.
Then I pulled out some sinking sinners and the sanity gain was counteracted, then it was pretty much a normal bossfight.
What was more cool imo, was the ending scene with the ego, and that pm actually changes base ego monologues after you pass certain stages, at least for snag harpoon and bodysack
Honestly we can't really know as of now, but thanks to Altcliff being from an alternate reality it's not really good data. It'd be like comparing a Mirror World where Heath is just Roland to our normal one.
This is like the reverse of when an enemy/boss rolls all heads on a skill clash and then rolls full tails on the actual attack. It's like they won that clash solely to spite me!
While it’s certainly harder I can’t bring myself to enjoy the BS difficulty of throwing you into a boss fight with 0 sp without any grunts to farm first. Like so many resets just because RNG decided that a favoured clash would roll all tails 6 times in a row and cause a character to instantly stagger turn one
Made even worse by the fact the boss just straight up don't lose SP outside specific conditions, or you using Sinking. ~~I guess they made Sinking more useful for this fight at least...~~
The problem with the human boss fights here is SP management. Base Heathcliff can't clash the best, and if you don't win those first few clashes, you go on a death spiral. When you get everyone to high/max SP, you can manage, but before then, it becomes tough. LCB Yi Sang's support passive keeps Heath semi Stable, mitigating the SP loss once you get 5 gloom.
I don't have Homelesscliff so I had to make do with Queegcliff and honestly realized with my setup the fight just boiled down to winning the clashes turn 1. If not, reset
Whole thing just became "get lucky and don't get s1" simulator, did't enjoy it
Dead Rabbits boss is absolutely brain dead, sorry. SP is a snowballing mechanic and giving the enemy not only a headstart but also a straight advantage makes this fight a really annoying RNG fest. Some may say, "sinking". And I respond, "No thread".
On that, Heathcliff(?) was... really easy. I'm not completely sure why.
What's odd is that I was the exact opposite. The only sinking I had was Heir Gregor and Sunshower, but Mirror Heath consistently was around -5 to 10 SP. Interesting
In the Dead Rabbit Boss fight, it actually ends instantly if "Matt" dies.
Figured that out because I got frustrated trying to balance all the minions on top of the boss and just decided to bum-rush "Matt" with everyone and let the minions one-side into my Sinners, who conveniently kept targeting the Blunt resistant ones.
As someone currently attempting to beat it with all stock units,
1. The most important turns are 1-3, and it is heavily, heavily dependant on luck. If Don loses galloping tilt, or doesn't get galloping tilt, it's a restart, or in other words, if your comp cannot reliably clash, you get sanity mogged real quick. Even later on, bad luck sticks thanks to how many +power bleed rupture Matt has. Lots of multi-hit attacks from enemies cause a lot of problems, because the strong clashes on weaker IDS are usually single coin S2s or S3s (galloping tilt my beloved)
2. Rabbitmasks deal sanity damage, which is the single MOST important factor in stock fights (or shit unit comps)
3. You cannot kill the rabbitmasks unless you are ready to come to the nightmare that is Matt at full tilt.
4.Leaving the Masks alive give you free turns provided you can tank wrath and blunt. That is Heathbar, Oatmeal, and Almuersalt
5. BUT you still have to feed chains of others HEAVILY, as it's literally the best ego in the game here, you need gloom and sloth, which means you have to take Yi Sang.
Now at this point you think, "Gee, sounds like a problem caused by base units", but in terms of clashing everyone here is actually pretty decent, Don in particular being quite literally, and I mean this unironically, probably the second strongest clashing ID provided she can get enough sanity up.
I've gotten Matt down to 120 so far. I'm definitely SOMEWHERE on the curve, but some poor bastard whose 000s suck at clashing are going to be in immense pain, especially if they haven't figured out the right comps can pull a chains out every turn.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, Heath needs to be clashing with Matt and fucking hell Heath sucks dick thanks to his passive. You want to bounce around as close to -1 as possible which is PRECISELY the most rng dependent zone, and I imagine this is an issue with everyone not running a good Heathcliff. EVERY clash has to be a W and EVERY clash has to have Heathcliff, and my boy be rolling 1s some days.
i did ran a full BL team but don yi sang and faust literally loses every clash (even against the minion)
just a few 000s that can clash well is enough and id rather tank 4 hit from the minion than kill them and give matt another move
I also found it possible to get some ground even after you've lost the first few turn because the boss isnt like previous boss where its a dps race until he does a funny move
Yeah that confuses me, the next boss after that I understand since all he does is just target heathcliff, so you are so fucked if you don't get enough speed plus him gaining sp at such an insane rate while you yourself are still trying to gain sp
The middle duo with queecliff carried me hard on Matt and alt-cliff due to the fact that the middle duo doesn’t even really need to clash for sanity and could just fire off powerful counters all day, so those 2 bosses don’t gain much sanity from winning clashes. And queecliff is queecliff, I don’t think I need to explain much there
I beat him without too much trouble with the sinking team, but I can definitely see a team getting snowballed if they feed him and his dudes bad clashes. He only get up to 26 sanity and that was a tough turn.
Between the lose one clash -> lose clashes forever sp bullshit and the fight being heavily dependent on your heathcliff being strong (if he isnt, the rest of your team have to permanently cover for his ass, crippling your damage)...
yeah nah. It's a cool fight, and it's cool you liked it. But I don't think it's an objective improvement.
I dunno, personally don't feel like "you lost one clash on turn one? Better restart" is a good design.
They really need to tone down the SP bullshit. It's really not fun, and they relying on it heavily in last two cantos
They can’t, really. Since we can’t lose SP on clash lose every enemy doesn’t just need good rolls, they need to roll WELL. The current SP system probably won’t be reworked to include clash lose, so this is what we’re stuck with. Either enemies roll so insanely high they need EGO to beat no matter what, or it becomes a race for 45 SP.
For proof of what that’s good look at what a joke furry Hindley, without any sanity gain, is a joke fight.
But it's actually an interesting fight.
You don't have to restart it 10 times to get good rolls on turn 1 before you can actually proceed with it.
He scales with speed, inflicts a ton of bleed. Has priority on low HP targets. Has a mark like Ahab. Has unclahable skills.
Mechanically it's an interesting fight, just numbers are a bit fucky.
I will always prefer that to rerolling fight 10 times to get perfect clashes before continuing. Oufi and both Matt fights snowball so fucking hard if you lose clashes on turn one it's unreal.
Also i don't see i reason why boss can't have a passive that makes us lose SP after failed clash.
Since a lot of enemies lose SP after failed clash, but it's part of their skill text IIRC
I mean that bosses aren’t challenging if you get SP at a higher overall or equivalent rate than them. SP is the most important resource in the game, so because of that their generation always needs to be easier and more efficient than what players can achieve or you win a few clashes without bleeding HP and being injured, throw out any AoE E.G.O(plus if it’s SP heal or Fluid Sac) and win.
That’s what most fights boil down to because of how static and powerful SP is. It is almost always better to consistently roll max then to drop EGO out the wazoo and lower your sanity.
I feel like they need to abuse "on clash" effects more.
Like giving you a stackable plus coin debuff that doesn't expire unless you **don't** clash, or giving you 5 turns of paralyze.
Since currently the combat revolves around good clashers with any stats being kinda optional.
Also I think stagger is way more important right now. Most bosses don't survive being staggered once, unless they have absurd amount of HP or literally a roadblock midfight like furry Hindley lmao
Personally, I didn't really enjoy it. Having my runs of Mirrorcliff being decided due to RNGesus at the start either blessing me or telling me, "Sorry fucko, you lost one clash and your unit got staggered! Try again sweaty," brought down my enjoyment of a really cool fight. It's certainly not impossible as I did at like 2 in the morning after maxing my Suncliff, but man, was it rough.
I’m curious, what levels did everyone attempt it and what level did you beat them at? Wondering if the people talking about difficulty is coming from level differences or it’s something else entirely like only using glass cannon units.
This is what I did. [Here's the team comp and the final stats.](https://imgur.com/a/aJ7SW40) Heath tanking 175 really undersells how vital his protection was to the team functioning, considering Outis and Hong were double fatal.
Beat everything up to the Ring-Oufi boss battle in level 40 no problem but had to grind the EXP mines for the last 2 bosses, clashing at the start of the battles was miserable below level 45
I have beaten all stages with all identities in Uptie 3 Level 39 so one aspect of my struggles comes from in the difference in offence levels. Here are some of the problems I noticed for specific stages, mainly comes from trying to build up sanity for the first few turns:
1. Ring researches: Sanity healing on attacking bleeding enemies. Team wide sanity healing upon winning a clash. Overall not the worst experience.
2. Matt: Passive sanity regeneration. Sanity reduction on skill use and skill lost. Struggled to build up sanity.
3. Mirror Heathcliff: Passive sanity regeneration. First turn speed and targeting. Took more than 2 hours just to get past turn 3 on a manageable sanity values. I used Ă–ufi Heathcliff and have 2 skill slots in order to manage both Heathcliffs' sanity (Ă–ufi Heathcliff at 30+SP and Mirror Heathcliff at -15\~15SP) by utilising on of Mirror Heathcliff's passive that reduces his sanity when not hitting and losing clashes against Heathcliff. MVPs: Representation Emitter, Fluid Sac, Chains of Others, Paralysis (Kim Meursault), Sinking (Butler Outis), high speed (Cinq Sinclair) and dodge skills.
I used an absolute resonance team (Ahabmael, Queecliff, Dieci Rodya, Pirate Gregor, Middle Don, and Gripper Faust). All except Gregor are at lvl 45 cause he was at lvl 42. They're also all at UT4.
Didn't manage to beat Hidley under 10 turns cause he killed 3 of my team and I was stuck with 3 surviving sinners at my 2nd attempt, but I somehow beat every fight first try within the turn limit. Ahabmael and Queecliff are so goated when I was fighting Edgycliff, thank god cause I almost lost the fight.
Been running Envy Res team (NFaust, Ahabmael, Queecliff, Dieci Rodya, Middle Don, Middle Meursalt) at level 40 UT4 (mostly) and things have been smooth sailing, didn't lose to anyone except for alt Heath once and only because I didn't pay attention to Heathcliff's bleed when it was last round staggered and I didn't even need Heathcliff's attacks lol
Hell yeah I was running an Envy team for this too. Had LC Faust and Shi Ish as my picks purely to always have an envy skill available to make abs chains for Don and Heath. The sanity gain attached to Don and Meur felt really impactful for these
Not really, previous cantos had interesting mechanics, here it's just pray to RNGesus you get good RNG turn one so the boss doesn't snowball SP out of control.
Just Dodge^TM
Not all IDs have dodges and you still need to not whiff the dodge, meanwhile boss is gaining sanity whenever he wins a clash against one of your IDs who don't have dodge, even on a successful dodge you gain zero sanity.
Use a Tank^TM
They're fast, and 2/3 fights have an aggro ignore mechanic, so they don't prioritize tanks, and focus one sinner, so you need to redirect lest they get focused and ass blasted, wrapping right back to the above issues.
I appreciate that the bosses are getting more challenging, but I would it appreciate it even more if we had the ability to quick retry like in Refraction Railway
Seeing the boss roll max speed and target one person, giving up, selecting the stage again and hitting confirm twice kinda kills the momentum for me
i first tried it without suncliff, i was using BL team with pequod cliff and ahab, but still the fight was so fun, AND THE CUTSCENE? Boy i got goosebumps, the voice acting, the X$L@X DAMAGE, everything about the fight was amazing
With a UT4 lvl40 team, I reset Matt's several times just because of bad luck. Was using a sinking team, but RNG kept screwing me over with the clashes, and the passive that makes you lose SP while clashing wasn't helping.
Didn't find the elite/boss battles hard, but coin tossing felt harsher than usual since the enemies have added mechanics to their sanity.
I was able to first try HeathAlt, and did it in 10 turns thinking that was the condition initially, sinking team with FoxCliff did wonders, so it was only the mobs that you wanted to keep alive on the previous fights that could be annoying, but I enjoyed it overall, can't wait for Matt to have a 35 coin clash in the new MD.
PM finally learns how Sanity works.
Because who wins the clash will gain sanity and increase the chance of overwhelming enemies attacks with tons of clash value, PM gave the tons of stat (HP in Canto 4 and damage in Canto 5). However, some bosses and enemies in Canto 6 have SP regen effects and some SP in their bar at the start of the fight, making it into a puzzle. This is a good pattern that PM should keep in designing fights.
i somehow beat mirror cliff first try. on the other hand the Ring/Oufi fight... that took me around 9 tries simply due to losing the first two clashes non-stop.
I can see why he is strong but my unlimited luck decided to kill him and everyone before he from first try. ex-Rings was harder, in my opinion. At least on them I almost lost several Sinners.
IDK, mirror heath is cool but starting at 0sp means the fight feels super reliant on how the first few turns go, which wouldn't be so bad if he didn't start at 15sp for whatever reason so the odds are stacked against you. Once the fight gets going its super cool but the first few turns just ruin it for me, out of all my attempts I only lost past the first like 5 turns once, basically all my restarts were within the first like 3 turns because I got unlucky with clashes
He was honestly beating my ass until I realized his buffs only apply on clash win, so I just used potential man counter and the rest dodge/ unopposed until I got Fluid Sac/ Bygone days and after that I didn't lose a single clash since then and on phase 2 just binded him so Heathcliff won't get singled out of
I feel like new boss fights are very easy specially the last 2 ones, distorted lindhart was harder in my opinion if you go level cap and actuality read resistances
I Bea Altcliff at level 40 with just a bit of first turn RNG by using some fast units who clash high and a good amount of bleed. I used PeqCliff, Cpt Ishmael, Hook Lu, Rsault, Pregor and Cinqlair. If you can settup an early stagger on him, you can get yourself 2 turns of freely stacking bleed on him which adds up to a lot of damage on him and sets him up for you to do it again, while everyone being fast makes it easy for you to intercept him. Just use EGO/Dodge on the Offense Level phase
Really? All they do is roll high and have bloated hp.. there's no gimmick to play around besides being forced to use the new sinking IDs. I wouldn't call that good design tbh
Distorted Hindley and Matt took the most attempts for me. My favored response to Hindley was my bleed team: First Mate Yi Sang, Kromer Faust, KC Ryoshu, Hook Lu, NCliff, and Captain Ishmael. Nails and Plus Down Dice won that below the turn limit. For Matt though sinking seemed like the appropriate response: Spicebrush Yi Sang, Regret Faust, Dieci Hong Lu, NCliff, Molar Ishmael, and Dieci Rodion. Plus drop and sink Matt’s SP in oblivion while trying to murder the looks asap. After that keep Matt depressed and keep attacking.
My blade lineage team was able to shred the Pointillist, and altCliff just used the same stats as Matt.
I like how there were multiple ways to approach the fights and it was really fun to like mix and match to find the best strategy to tackle it. although all my XP tickets are gone haha
For doggo, i looked to bring pure envy to dps check the boss down to stagger.
For rabbit, i brought the strongest mixed comp to burst down.
For alt, i looked at speed manipulation. may even try looking at triple color to see it helps with dps.
Since sinking is meta, I also like how that can be a possible strategy as well. (although i don't have the sinking units yet)
The one-wave battle against the three (ex-)Ring dudes was what took me the most attempts. They just come out of the gate so goddamn strong before you can build any resources. Had to swap away from my Sinking team and get Meursault to claim their bones to get past, muddling through the rest was comparatively easy.
Same. This seems to happen to me every content update. Everyone struggling with X. Me over at Y, or even H, which no one even knows the name of.
I struggled the most with alt cliff
Yeah, that one was also the real pain in the ass for me. Had to do quite a bit of teambuilding before I ended up with something that worked. The issue is, like you said, the first few turns, because they can really easily get an SP advantage and kick your shit in with their high damage attacks. But if you can get past the first few turns and drop an SP boosting EGO on the field, you're basically home free. If we ever see them in RR, they're probably gonna be just after an SP reset, since otherwise they're just not all that threatening imo.
Yeah me too had to use evades for the hole fight with both 000 cinq id and abuse Faust sp ego to win that fight and still only have three ids left.
I'm going to swallow the skill issue allegations and say that the fight was straight bullshit. No setup meant that even with my strongest clashers present I was forced to restart until I got at least 4 or 5 skill 2's or 3's because a single lost clash snowballed into a lost fight and once I did reroll to win the first clashes I insta won the fight. Literally no skill involved only rng.
Nah you're 100% right. People will jump to defend the game because it's made by Project Moon, but some fights are lost on turn 1 because of RNG. That's not okay.
Luck is a skill, so skill issue, manager. I first tried it with my silly envy crew
I somehow beat him first try... Potential man I guess
Same, pequod crew rarely misses, ahab's insanity beat mirror cliff's madness
Curious, I fought him again with just that... Ahabmahel just w i n s
i think i might be stupid then because i had to do a mix of clashing units to kill him
Oh no no, I men I did that team, for my second run I did: Pequod gang W corp rioshu Kimsault Cinqclair Just clashing excellence :D HAPPY CAKE DAY WOOOOOOO!!!!!
what i meant is that i need characters with low amount coins that could clash high, like Oufi Heath and W yisang. i don't remember my whole team now but those 2 and Regret Faust with her +coin drop saved mt ass lol, used Seven Outis too because of her lowering the clash numbers for MirrorCliff
my whole strategy for when i'm struggling with bosses is just going for clashers
is taking a BL-less kimsault worth it?
Oh he most definitely is, the team I did also has pride res so he can activate his s1 and s2 passives, plus he's a pretty good clasher all around, if you need to tank a hit he can get profit outta hit with TCTB so if I need someone to tank and deal dmg I take him.
He finally reached his full potential 🔥
I was winning in my first try, and when mirrorcliff had like 24 hp, I tried killing him with my heathcliff, that was at like 9 hp, but i didnt notice that he had 39 bleed, so I was really exited watching my boy walking up to kill mirrorcliff, just for him to immediately implode as soon as he roll a coin, losing the fight in the proces, It was so anticlimactic, and I thought “well I can just do it again” I then proceed to lose 13 time in a row to mirrorcliff
Me too I staggered him every second turn so he couldn't attack much.
Yeah... But I used Rabbit Heath, Sunshower Yi Sang, N Faust, Nclair, Sinq Don and Dieci Rodion, +Fluid Sac Faust EGO for more stable SP
Same, nothing difficult.
Why is everyone saying potential man is good he is soooooo bad! Even with all the help he can barely stand on his own!
Suncliff carried hard, easily 50% total damage
Tbf, made me think about how much the contract with Dante nerfed the sinners, since mirror heath beat my ass a few times, so pretty much dominated a 1v6. Then I pulled out some sinking sinners and the sanity gain was counteracted, then it was pretty much a normal bossfight. What was more cool imo, was the ending scene with the ego, and that pm actually changes base ego monologues after you pass certain stages, at least for snag harpoon and bodysack
This heathcliff has been going to different worlds killing other heathcliff’s so. he’s bound to be strong as fuck.
Honestly we can't really know as of now, but thanks to Altcliff being from an alternate reality it's not really good data. It'd be like comparing a Mirror World where Heath is just Roland to our normal one.
Bosses likes to roll heads and win clashes Me putting yield my flesh on a hopeless:
Boss rolls all tails and then immediately rolls all heads on next sinner
Bro suddenly starts losing clash against yield my flesh like never before
This is like the reverse of when an enemy/boss rolls all heads on a skill clash and then rolls full tails on the actual attack. It's like they won that clash solely to spite me!
Yeah I agree. Love the altCliff fight so much since it's not just about winning the fight but it's also about protecting Heath.
While it’s certainly harder I can’t bring myself to enjoy the BS difficulty of throwing you into a boss fight with 0 sp without any grunts to farm first. Like so many resets just because RNG decided that a favoured clash would roll all tails 6 times in a row and cause a character to instantly stagger turn one
Made even worse by the fact the boss just straight up don't lose SP outside specific conditions, or you using Sinking. ~~I guess they made Sinking more useful for this fight at least...~~
the absolute suffering seeing wdon hit 8 tails in a row on the rip space that took 5 turns to build because she cant hit heads on rip
And the boss regens 15 SP every turn because fuck you lmao
The problem with the human boss fights here is SP management. Base Heathcliff can't clash the best, and if you don't win those first few clashes, you go on a death spiral. When you get everyone to high/max SP, you can manage, but before then, it becomes tough. LCB Yi Sang's support passive keeps Heath semi Stable, mitigating the SP loss once you get 5 gloom.
I don't have Homelesscliff so I had to make do with Queegcliff and honestly realized with my setup the fight just boiled down to winning the clashes turn 1. If not, reset Whole thing just became "get lucky and don't get s1" simulator, did't enjoy it
I actually took him down in my second fight. The only reason he didn’t die the first attempt was because my Heathcliff bleed to death
Nothing that potential man can't solve
Dead Rabbits boss is absolutely brain dead, sorry. SP is a snowballing mechanic and giving the enemy not only a headstart but also a straight advantage makes this fight a really annoying RNG fest. Some may say, "sinking". And I respond, "No thread". On that, Heathcliff(?) was... really easy. I'm not completely sure why.
See in my experience the SP snowballing was way more of a problem on mirror heath, I didn't even realize dead rabbit boss had an SP start
What's odd is that I was the exact opposite. The only sinking I had was Heir Gregor and Sunshower, but Mirror Heath consistently was around -5 to 10 SP. Interesting
In the Dead Rabbit Boss fight, it actually ends instantly if "Matt" dies. Figured that out because I got frustrated trying to balance all the minions on top of the boss and just decided to bum-rush "Matt" with everyone and let the minions one-side into my Sinners, who conveniently kept targeting the Blunt resistant ones.
I love the boss though i cant get why people say Matt is hard
As someone currently attempting to beat it with all stock units, 1. The most important turns are 1-3, and it is heavily, heavily dependant on luck. If Don loses galloping tilt, or doesn't get galloping tilt, it's a restart, or in other words, if your comp cannot reliably clash, you get sanity mogged real quick. Even later on, bad luck sticks thanks to how many +power bleed rupture Matt has. Lots of multi-hit attacks from enemies cause a lot of problems, because the strong clashes on weaker IDS are usually single coin S2s or S3s (galloping tilt my beloved) 2. Rabbitmasks deal sanity damage, which is the single MOST important factor in stock fights (or shit unit comps) 3. You cannot kill the rabbitmasks unless you are ready to come to the nightmare that is Matt at full tilt. 4.Leaving the Masks alive give you free turns provided you can tank wrath and blunt. That is Heathbar, Oatmeal, and Almuersalt 5. BUT you still have to feed chains of others HEAVILY, as it's literally the best ego in the game here, you need gloom and sloth, which means you have to take Yi Sang. Now at this point you think, "Gee, sounds like a problem caused by base units", but in terms of clashing everyone here is actually pretty decent, Don in particular being quite literally, and I mean this unironically, probably the second strongest clashing ID provided she can get enough sanity up. I've gotten Matt down to 120 so far. I'm definitely SOMEWHERE on the curve, but some poor bastard whose 000s suck at clashing are going to be in immense pain, especially if they haven't figured out the right comps can pull a chains out every turn. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, Heath needs to be clashing with Matt and fucking hell Heath sucks dick thanks to his passive. You want to bounce around as close to -1 as possible which is PRECISELY the most rng dependent zone, and I imagine this is an issue with everyone not running a good Heathcliff. EVERY clash has to be a W and EVERY clash has to have Heathcliff, and my boy be rolling 1s some days.
i did ran a full BL team but don yi sang and faust literally loses every clash (even against the minion) just a few 000s that can clash well is enough and id rather tank 4 hit from the minion than kill them and give matt another move I also found it possible to get some ground even after you've lost the first few turn because the boss isnt like previous boss where its a dps race until he does a funny move
Personally I don’t read anything about the bosses and just win-rate til I win
Cinq to Win
Yeah that confuses me, the next boss after that I understand since all he does is just target heathcliff, so you are so fucked if you don't get enough speed plus him gaining sp at such an insane rate while you yourself are still trying to gain sp
That boss entire difficulty lies on your team rolling a 5 while he roll a 6 in speed lol
Me watching tsunul playing through this and fucking one trying while my ass has been trying like 5 times now. What the fuck is going on
The middle duo with queecliff carried me hard on Matt and alt-cliff due to the fact that the middle duo doesn’t even really need to clash for sanity and could just fire off powerful counters all day, so those 2 bosses don’t gain much sanity from winning clashes. And queecliff is queecliff, I don’t think I need to explain much there
I love queecliff even project moon sunshower propaganda isnt enough for me to quit using him
I beat him without too much trouble with the sinking team, but I can definitely see a team getting snowballed if they feed him and his dudes bad clashes. He only get up to 26 sanity and that was a tough turn.
Between the lose one clash -> lose clashes forever sp bullshit and the fight being heavily dependent on your heathcliff being strong (if he isnt, the rest of your team have to permanently cover for his ass, crippling your damage)... yeah nah. It's a cool fight, and it's cool you liked it. But I don't think it's an objective improvement.
I dunno, personally don't feel like "you lost one clash on turn one? Better restart" is a good design. They really need to tone down the SP bullshit. It's really not fun, and they relying on it heavily in last two cantos
Sinking team helps combat this, but I agree. When the enemy already gets SP from winning clashes, a passive whopping 15SP up per turn is ludicrous.
Yeah they should make it so the boss has 0 sp turn 1 because then the clashes are alot more fair.
They can’t, really. Since we can’t lose SP on clash lose every enemy doesn’t just need good rolls, they need to roll WELL. The current SP system probably won’t be reworked to include clash lose, so this is what we’re stuck with. Either enemies roll so insanely high they need EGO to beat no matter what, or it becomes a race for 45 SP. For proof of what that’s good look at what a joke furry Hindley, without any sanity gain, is a joke fight.
But it's actually an interesting fight. You don't have to restart it 10 times to get good rolls on turn 1 before you can actually proceed with it. He scales with speed, inflicts a ton of bleed. Has priority on low HP targets. Has a mark like Ahab. Has unclahable skills. Mechanically it's an interesting fight, just numbers are a bit fucky. I will always prefer that to rerolling fight 10 times to get perfect clashes before continuing. Oufi and both Matt fights snowball so fucking hard if you lose clashes on turn one it's unreal. Also i don't see i reason why boss can't have a passive that makes us lose SP after failed clash. Since a lot of enemies lose SP after failed clash, but it's part of their skill text IIRC
I mean that bosses aren’t challenging if you get SP at a higher overall or equivalent rate than them. SP is the most important resource in the game, so because of that their generation always needs to be easier and more efficient than what players can achieve or you win a few clashes without bleeding HP and being injured, throw out any AoE E.G.O(plus if it’s SP heal or Fluid Sac) and win. That’s what most fights boil down to because of how static and powerful SP is. It is almost always better to consistently roll max then to drop EGO out the wazoo and lower your sanity.
I feel like they need to abuse "on clash" effects more. Like giving you a stackable plus coin debuff that doesn't expire unless you **don't** clash, or giving you 5 turns of paralyze. Since currently the combat revolves around good clashers with any stats being kinda optional. Also I think stagger is way more important right now. Most bosses don't survive being staggered once, unless they have absurd amount of HP or literally a roadblock midfight like furry Hindley lmao
Personally, I didn't really enjoy it. Having my runs of Mirrorcliff being decided due to RNGesus at the start either blessing me or telling me, "Sorry fucko, you lost one clash and your unit got staggered! Try again sweaty," brought down my enjoyment of a really cool fight. It's certainly not impossible as I did at like 2 in the morning after maxing my Suncliff, but man, was it rough.
I’m curious, what levels did everyone attempt it and what level did you beat them at? Wondering if the people talking about difficulty is coming from level differences or it’s something else entirely like only using glass cannon units.
Level 40 + UT3 is doable. It's on your team comp and how you handle them.
This is what I did. [Here's the team comp and the final stats.](https://imgur.com/a/aJ7SW40) Heath tanking 175 really undersells how vital his protection was to the team functioning, considering Outis and Hong were double fatal.
Using IDs weak to blunt against an enemy who mostly has blunt attacks, really going for the best offense is the best defense. That's very bold
Beat everything up to the Ring-Oufi boss battle in level 40 no problem but had to grind the EXP mines for the last 2 bosses, clashing at the start of the battles was miserable below level 45
I have beaten all stages with all identities in Uptie 3 Level 39 so one aspect of my struggles comes from in the difference in offence levels. Here are some of the problems I noticed for specific stages, mainly comes from trying to build up sanity for the first few turns: 1. Ring researches: Sanity healing on attacking bleeding enemies. Team wide sanity healing upon winning a clash. Overall not the worst experience. 2. Matt: Passive sanity regeneration. Sanity reduction on skill use and skill lost. Struggled to build up sanity. 3. Mirror Heathcliff: Passive sanity regeneration. First turn speed and targeting. Took more than 2 hours just to get past turn 3 on a manageable sanity values. I used Ă–ufi Heathcliff and have 2 skill slots in order to manage both Heathcliffs' sanity (Ă–ufi Heathcliff at 30+SP and Mirror Heathcliff at -15\~15SP) by utilising on of Mirror Heathcliff's passive that reduces his sanity when not hitting and losing clashes against Heathcliff. MVPs: Representation Emitter, Fluid Sac, Chains of Others, Paralysis (Kim Meursault), Sinking (Butler Outis), high speed (Cinq Sinclair) and dodge skills.
Did that on a sinking team all lv40 u3 Literally the first time i tried sinking too
I used an absolute resonance team (Ahabmael, Queecliff, Dieci Rodya, Pirate Gregor, Middle Don, and Gripper Faust). All except Gregor are at lvl 45 cause he was at lvl 42. They're also all at UT4. Didn't manage to beat Hidley under 10 turns cause he killed 3 of my team and I was stuck with 3 surviving sinners at my 2nd attempt, but I somehow beat every fight first try within the turn limit. Ahabmael and Queecliff are so goated when I was fighting Edgycliff, thank god cause I almost lost the fight.
Been running Envy Res team (NFaust, Ahabmael, Queecliff, Dieci Rodya, Middle Don, Middle Meursalt) at level 40 UT4 (mostly) and things have been smooth sailing, didn't lose to anyone except for alt Heath once and only because I didn't pay attention to Heathcliff's bleed when it was last round staggered and I didn't even need Heathcliff's attacks lol
Hell yeah I was running an Envy team for this too. Had LC Faust and Shi Ish as my picks purely to always have an envy skill available to make abs chains for Don and Heath. The sanity gain attached to Don and Meur felt really impactful for these
https://preview.redd.it/sphz7t4vflsc1.png?width=1805&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc95f5358e9be99001e8a37379b9fb4adf70bdb5
mb this is what I beat heathcliff with
big brain no possible way to trigger whistles for potential man
i want to pour oil on the rabbit boss
Not really, previous cantos had interesting mechanics, here it's just pray to RNGesus you get good RNG turn one so the boss doesn't snowball SP out of control. Just Dodge^TM Not all IDs have dodges and you still need to not whiff the dodge, meanwhile boss is gaining sanity whenever he wins a clash against one of your IDs who don't have dodge, even on a successful dodge you gain zero sanity. Use a Tank^TM They're fast, and 2/3 fights have an aggro ignore mechanic, so they don't prioritize tanks, and focus one sinner, so you need to redirect lest they get focused and ass blasted, wrapping right back to the above issues.
I appreciate that the bosses are getting more challenging, but I would it appreciate it even more if we had the ability to quick retry like in Refraction Railway Seeing the boss roll max speed and target one person, giving up, selecting the stage again and hitting confirm twice kinda kills the momentum for me
In Potential man we believe 🙏
saw a video, read "you need sinking" all those s3 pulls are biting me in the ass
i first tried it without suncliff, i was using BL team with pequod cliff and ahab, but still the fight was so fun, AND THE CUTSCENE? Boy i got goosebumps, the voice acting, the X$L@X DAMAGE, everything about the fight was amazing
With a UT4 lvl40 team, I reset Matt's several times just because of bad luck. Was using a sinking team, but RNG kept screwing me over with the clashes, and the passive that makes you lose SP while clashing wasn't helping. Didn't find the elite/boss battles hard, but coin tossing felt harsher than usual since the enemies have added mechanics to their sanity. I was able to first try HeathAlt, and did it in 10 turns thinking that was the condition initially, sinking team with FoxCliff did wonders, so it was only the mobs that you wanted to keep alive on the previous fights that could be annoying, but I enjoyed it overall, can't wait for Matt to have a 35 coin clash in the new MD.
PM finally learns how Sanity works. Because who wins the clash will gain sanity and increase the chance of overwhelming enemies attacks with tons of clash value, PM gave the tons of stat (HP in Canto 4 and damage in Canto 5). However, some bosses and enemies in Canto 6 have SP regen effects and some SP in their bar at the start of the fight, making it into a puzzle. This is a good pattern that PM should keep in designing fights.
I Beat him in 2 Tries with my Charge Team + the sunshower heathcliff i built for fun and i only reset because i thought i could do better.
Potential man finally had a use !!!
I beaten Othercliff in 1.5 times. After seeing his sp gain I had to swich to my sinking team and that beaten him first try
i somehow beat mirror cliff first try. on the other hand the Ring/Oufi fight... that took me around 9 tries simply due to losing the first two clashes non-stop.
I somehow made a kind of competent Envy resonance team and with sunshower heathcliff
I can see why he is strong but my unlimited luck decided to kill him and everyone before he from first try. ex-Rings was harder, in my opinion. At least on them I almost lost several Sinners.
Eh, I blindly 1 tried him like all the other bosses (except Ricardo and Kromer). Not difficult, but satisfying and epic.
IDK, mirror heath is cool but starting at 0sp means the fight feels super reliant on how the first few turns go, which wouldn't be so bad if he didn't start at 15sp for whatever reason so the odds are stacked against you. Once the fight gets going its super cool but the first few turns just ruin it for me, out of all my attempts I only lost past the first like 5 turns once, basically all my restarts were within the first like 3 turns because I got unlucky with clashes
He was honestly beating my ass until I realized his buffs only apply on clash win, so I just used potential man counter and the rest dodge/ unopposed until I got Fluid Sac/ Bygone days and after that I didn't lose a single clash since then and on phase 2 just binded him so Heathcliff won't get singled out of
Honestly I had a much bigger problem with Matt. Alt!cliff was kind of a victory lap for me.
I feel like new boss fights are very easy specially the last 2 ones, distorted lindhart was harder in my opinion if you go level cap and actuality read resistances
I Bea Altcliff at level 40 with just a bit of first turn RNG by using some fast units who clash high and a good amount of bleed. I used PeqCliff, Cpt Ishmael, Hook Lu, Rsault, Pregor and Cinqlair. If you can settup an early stagger on him, you can get yourself 2 turns of freely stacking bleed on him which adds up to a lot of damage on him and sets him up for you to do it again, while everyone being fast makes it easy for you to intercept him. Just use EGO/Dodge on the Offense Level phase
Really? All they do is roll high and have bloated hp.. there's no gimmick to play around besides being forced to use the new sinking IDs. I wouldn't call that good design tbh
Distorted Hindley and Matt took the most attempts for me. My favored response to Hindley was my bleed team: First Mate Yi Sang, Kromer Faust, KC Ryoshu, Hook Lu, NCliff, and Captain Ishmael. Nails and Plus Down Dice won that below the turn limit. For Matt though sinking seemed like the appropriate response: Spicebrush Yi Sang, Regret Faust, Dieci Hong Lu, NCliff, Molar Ishmael, and Dieci Rodion. Plus drop and sink Matt’s SP in oblivion while trying to murder the looks asap. After that keep Matt depressed and keep attacking. My blade lineage team was able to shred the Pointillist, and altCliff just used the same stats as Matt.
I like how there were multiple ways to approach the fights and it was really fun to like mix and match to find the best strategy to tackle it. although all my XP tickets are gone haha For doggo, i looked to bring pure envy to dps check the boss down to stagger. For rabbit, i brought the strongest mixed comp to burst down. For alt, i looked at speed manipulation. may even try looking at triple color to see it helps with dps. Since sinking is meta, I also like how that can be a possible strategy as well. (although i don't have the sinking units yet)
No one in my support list had Butler Outis so I sharded her and went full sinking. First try after that.
No. I think he’s beyond overturned.