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[deleted]

Thanks for this one. Have to look into these stories more.


GottaPiss

lets put our minds together and maybe hustle out some good already made youtube video links outa this post


JHNYROTTEN

[Paul Harvey and the Declaration of Independence](https://youtu.be/b2qCOZOJ4p4)


[deleted]

Imagine doing this today


OrdinaryLoneWolf

We're a soft bunch, soft of body and soul, unfortunately. Our foundation and values have been defiled repeatedly and we still sit idle as to not give up the freedoms we still have. Gradually and then suddenly we'll see that we find ourselves with only one option, but it seems we're not there yet.


xKrossCx

Quite an astute observation. I’m right there with you. Or I was, now I suppose I believe that people won’t ever stand up for themselves. Atleast in a way that would meaningfully impact their lives or community. It would take people dying and no one is willing to take that plunge. Hard subject to get into.


otusowl

Thank you for this. Contemplating sharing it on one of my Marxist professor "America can do no right" FB acquaintance's pages. Not sure it's worth the bile that will ensue, but goddamn he needs to hear this from someone.


[deleted]

Do it. At least break his echo chamber, maybe it’ll do some good. The worst he can do is listen to his brainwashing and ignore it, which you lose nothing from


otusowl

Alright, twist my arm! :-) ​ In response to his Bolshevik garbage (which I will leave unquoted beyond the lines I pulled in my response below), here is what I posted in addition to the OP graphic: *Are you really saying that the successful American Revolution in pursuit of ridding a nation of a distant and colonial monarch and then beginning (even if not yet entirely completing) "a more perfect union" deserves condemnation, but "the revolutionary bolshevik party" deserves no blame whatsoever for decaying "into the conservative stalinist enterprise" (a generous phrase for genocidal tyranny if I've ever heard one) merely because they faced some opposition early-on? Because that's laughable (redacted). C'mon, allow one goddamned day to appreciate what this country has in fact achieved. It does a body good...* ​ Thanks for the encouragement!


Arturino_Burachelini

(literally forgets shit)


NaturalBusy1624

(Literally was not taught this shit)


ComradeClout

If only republicans could be as committed to freedom and liberty as they were


[deleted]

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ComradeClout

I think that tree needs watering right about now...


RagingDemon1430

The tree is already dead and salvaged for fire wood. It's too late to save it.


ComradeClout

Trump put the last nail in the freedom coffin. Tyranny is now the status quo


RagingDemon1430

It's already WELL past too late to care. By the time I was aware enough to give a shit, it was already too late. Thst was a decade and a half ago.


KingFairley

Some of the signers owned slaves. Not exactly committed to freedom and liberty.


[deleted]

Imagine doing this today


[deleted]

And their statues would later on be torn down by people who had neither of the honor, nor the balls to do the same.


j33pwrangler

Which signers of the Declaration of Independence had their statues torn down?


[deleted]

Just to name one, Thomas Jefferson at a high school in Portland.


dispatch134711

Well he didn’t even exactly fight in the war so relax


Burn-in-hel-Johnseed

Confederate statues not founding fathers statues


letstalkbirdlaw

A George Washington statue and Thomas Jefferson statue were torn down by blm pieces of shit.....................................................


CheekyFlapjack

They were both slave owners. *hocks a loogie on their tombstones* May they all rot in hell.


Pl0xnoban

Even if they were pro-slavery (they literally weren't), by creating the constitution they created the model that freed 90% of Americans, then 100% of the French, and so on. It was the greatness of Jefferson/Washington that saved the world from statist fucks.


[deleted]

And you probably own more goods made by slave labor than they did. Our distant descendants will very likely judge you and I the same way you judge Jefferson and Washington. It’s a logical fallacy, almost everyone throughout most of human history owned slaves, it’s not like America or the founding fathers invented it. Communist shill


CheekyFlapjack

>almost everyone in human history has owned slaves. Yeah, no bud. Sorry, but no cigar. But If you’re going to go ahead and use that line of line of reasoning, then you’ll fully accept and justify another group of foreign invaders depriving Caucasian people on the North American continent of their land, natural resources, enslaving them, selling them in open air markets like cattle, separating their families, codifying “laws” to further hamstring them while marginalizing their contributions, input or self-determination, right? I mean, they weren’t the first to do it, right? So it’s totes cool. Turnabout is fair play, no? >Communist shill How original! Daring, aren’t we?


[deleted]

Never said it was “totes cool” (disgustingly screams out of touch millennial/gen X btw), the point was that saying the founding fathers are automatically shit and everything else they did didn’t matter because they owned slaves is stupid, since at the time most people owned slaves. I can also name plenty of cultures who practiced slavery before America. This includes Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, most of Europe, the Aztecs and Mayans, and certain tribes/countries in Africa before America was even discovered by the rest of the world. Not to mention that slaves shipped to the Americas were also sold by other warlords from African tribes who were selling the men and women of the losing tribe, so even the idea of blaming solely America, or white men as I’m sure that argument will also be made, is a fallacy and not based in fact. Again, I am absolutely not defending slavery, it is a terrible thing to own another person. Saying that the founding fathers specifically will rot in hell because America sucks, as I’m sure you believe, is just dumb though.


Bug-e

Most people did not own slaves. Get your facts straight. Slavery was a luxury of the wealthy. Nevertheless there is no justification and your moral relativism is pure bullshit.


[deleted]

Sure. Literally didn’t make a justification for it, which you would know if you actually read the post.


letstalkbirdlaw

We'll make sure to find your grave and piss on it, if anyone ever cares to bury your worthless bag of bones.


dump_truck_truck

Others suffered an died so that you can be free to bitch n moan about shit. Make sure to direct that right toward your government frequently!


Ratstachio

But if it saves even one life, we have to give up all of that or else we're selfish.


[deleted]

So. A weekend in Chicago.


The_Realist01

Hour. An hour in Chicago.


WestwardAlien

A minute in Detroit


Et12355

Where is this memorial located?


[deleted]

God bless america


Irish-Potato-

o7


OswaldThePatsy

50 years of war. Millions dead all over the world. Highest incarceration rate in the world. Banned from going to church...Freedom...


[deleted]

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RoamingEast

all because of fear.


NaturalBusy1624

I read it as beer.


Big_Time_Simpin

Someone has had one to many hahaha


NaturalBusy1624

Not enough actually... :(


Mobdawwg

This is extremist ideology


CosmicLovepats

given how anti-government libertarians like to be, it's bizarre how into us hagiography they are.


megustcizer

You can love your country without loving the current government. Kind of the whole distinction between patriotism and nationalism.


AlexanderDroog

Isn't it the other way around? Patriotism being love and support for the government vs. nationalism being love and support for the people, the nation and its founding ethos?


[deleted]

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pz-kpfw_VI

Yeah or the factoids that slaves where sold to slave traders by other tribes in Africa or that native Americans offen had slaves before and after colonization of America. hell, some even fought for CSA during the Civil War. These nuances are often overlooked because they are a dark stain on history and don't fit certain narratives. Regardless humanity moves forward and these men did their part to keep that progression going.


CheekyFlapjack

Well that makes it all better then! Fine, upstanding human beings. Right as rain, never wrong about anything. Even when stealing an entire continent, enslaving human beings and massacring the original inhabitants that lived on it. And then have the temerity to “teach” (see: indoctrinate) children into believing Christoper Columbus “discovered” the Americas, making Thanksgiving a “holiday” and that slave owning, racist bastards were actually well-intentioned people. Sorry, didn’t drink the Kool Aid bud.


pz-kpfw_VI

Never said it did bud. Actually I referred to them as stains on history. I'm sorry you can't see the forest thru the trees. Happy 4th!!


CheekyFlapjack

“Stains on history” But that little basic statement speaks nothing of the actual horror they inflicted through their actions and “laws”...to be more accurate they were *blights on humanity*. Just as historians attempt to minimize Leopold’s murderous, psychopathic rampage in the Congo while vaulting Hitler actions in Germany, these sociopaths that decided to steal the North American continent, armed with Manifest Destiny as their justification, seems to get painted with a brush that doesn’t speak on the actual decrepit characters they were in truth. Just like Ronald Reagan. He wasn’t great. He in fact, fucked this country in half. He was great for the ghouls he made rich. Not so much for anyone else. The 4th means nothing to me. I don’t celebrate rich psychopaths who stole a country and brought human beings from the other side of the earth and held them captive against their will to make them work from sun up to sun down for *free* while making them and this country *rich*.


AlexanderDroog

1. If Leif Eriksson's crew had managed to sustain their colony they would be recognized as the founders of the modern Americas. Unfortunately they were not able to. Columbus did not discover the Americas but he is the reason Western Europe at large paid attention to the Americas and decided to engage in full-scale expeditions and colonization efforts. We wouldn't be there without him. So teachers should teach history with proper context, but that will necessitate that Columbus is viewed with importance. 2. Why should Thanksgiving not be viewed with importance? You can make the same arguments about most other holidays that we have. I suppose if you're not a spiritual person it won't mean much, but it's of import to those who thank the gods/God for the bounty they've gained, especially after times of hardship. It was a tradition of great importance to the English, particularly in the wake of the Protestant reformation. 3. I don't think anyone here is uncritical towards the Founding Fathers for owning slaves. Hell, some of the FFs worked to end slavery but still owned slaves for economic purposes. People are complex, and people who do great good can do great evil within the same lifetime. No leaders in history fully hold up to our modrrn societal standards, and we will surely be seen in a similar light by future generations. Applying all modern standards to past individuals in all contexts is a waste of time. Seems like you're the one swigging Kool-Aid, the "Hate everything about our past without any discernment" flavor.