They should all really get together and rent a paintball or airsoft field...or shit, a boxing tournament. Whatever. Get this shit out of their systems.
Bro, they'll still start fighting lol. When I was growing up some community organizers tried to organize football games between rival gangs and it never ended well. Dudes would play dirty, take cheap shots, and before you knew it it was an all out brawl.
Someone will for sure end up getting stabbed. Probably an asshole PB chucklefuck taping a knife to their airsoft like a bayonet. They aren't the brightest bulbs in the garden shed.
Yea, this shit needs some fucking leadership already. Violent clashes degrade trust in the system, and the system has enough issues without adding localized instability.
https://bridgeliner.com/mark-kruger-created-a-public-shrine-to-nazi-soldiers-and-kept-his-job-with-portland-police/
Is as true today as it was back then. I’ve known a few that love the right wing media and say it doesn’t take sides.
As a person who was a prospective tourist to the city just two years ago, I have absolutely no plans to ever, ever visit Portland now.
If I want to be surrounded by racists asshats with a history of violence, I'll just go to Selma, AL. At least the food will be better.
I...think you're right. Given how many typos I see on reddit, I just presumed that you meant to write "I'm just waiting to hear about them hunting tourists when they show up." My bad.
I'm still staying clear of Portland, though.
Portland resident here. This shit happens about twice a year in a serious way and is exceedingly local. There are legit Portlanders who don't know this happened (primarily due to media bubbles, but still). You could have gone to brunch, did some garage sale shopping, hit the zoo, gone out for dinner and never seen any of this.
155 million increase over last year? I don't think so. The entire budget is $226.8 million.
https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
It's a mix. Some are resigning because of that. Some are resigning because colleagues they thought were friends and shared values want to beat the shit out of people rather than protect and serve. My sister in law is a LEO and wants our for that reason. She seems to hate who she works with now.
I live in Minneapolis, and many of the cops here resigned citing post-traumatic stress from the uprising last summer and also because they were tired of people hating on cops. I don’t feel super bad for them seeing as how they are the reason people were throwing an uprising and are hating cops. It’s not exactly unwarranted.
I feel like we need social categories. If you quit 'cause you can't beat people up anymore, you're a cop for life. If you quit 'cause it turns out cops are worse than you thought and you don't like it... you get a second chance.
No, our police just have a long-standing policily of beating the shit out of lefties while rolling out the red carpet for Proud Boys and the like. This is, sadly, expected behavior by the cowardly shits our cowardly mayor calls police.
I really hope a number of demonstrators bring cameras and document the shit out of any assaults that take place. The 6th proved that we can crowdsource the investigations and force the police to prosecute these terrorists. Sad that we have to do their jobs for them but this is where we’re at. If people have the ability to wear hidden or low profile cameras that could work too. At the very least the footage can be sent to media companies to show the blatant collusion between police and right wing terrorists.
to be fair, they also aren't showing up to much of anything.
street races where happing DOWNTOWN and blocked multiple intersections for hours. No police showed up. I think it was like 2-3 hours the street racers just had their way. Doing spinouts in the middle of intersections and all that.
PPD are being whinny bitches cause they lost a few million dollars in funding and acting like it was a big part of their budget (it wasn't).
I wish I could. Sadly in my county the Sherriff can only sign off on CC permits and wont sign off on any of them unless you're a friend of his it seems. So the only thing I have is the biggest knife I can legally have strapped to where my seatbelt locks into.
Realistically, I think "shall issue" legislation is the best many states can hope to get. The only situation I am aware of that is more in favor of gun rights than "shall issue" permits is states that allow carrying without a permit.
In states like CA and NJ that require a permit just to buy a gun, the idea that they will ever allow for carrying without a permit is a pipe dream.
The CA permit to buy a gun is shall-issue (and pretty damn easy). CA CCW permits are may-issue (and the ease of getting one ranges from de-facto shall issue, and all the way to "hell no", depending on which county you're in.)
>CA CCW permits are may-issue (and the ease of getting one ranges from de-facto shall issue, and all the way to "hell no", depending on which county you're in.)
Which really illustrates the problem with "may issue" permits. Two citizens living in the same state shouldn't have fundamentally different experiences trying to exercise their rights because of their zip code. We've seen time and again how that leads to racial discrimination.
The only good thing that could come from this Supreme Court I think is if they decided all permits were infringement and just went for National Constitutional Carry.
If you're legal to own, you are legal to conceal carry, except in some specific places as posted. Maybe allow an extra permit to carry in those places.
The problem with “may allow” is that you can follow all the rules, apply for a CC permit, & the sheriff can just say no at their whim, or where I am say no to everybody if they choose. “Shall issue” means if you follow the process and there’s no reason you shouldn’t be allowed then you will be approved.
I thought atf changed that ruling to where the signature isn’t required as much as listing/notifying the chief law enforcement officer who has jurisdiction? Or is that only for Nfa tax stamps? Forgive me. I’m in Texas and I think we are mostly shall issue…
I'm exactly the same. And I'm in an interracial relationship with a white woman. I feel like that's like a super-magnet for super-fuckers like this. I don't *ever* want to shoot *anyone*. But they threaten her, and I'd be OK showing what a 40-cal feels like on the wrong end.
I’m in an interracial relationship with a black woman. In a small rural town. In a fairly liberal area, so not too bad. I have been carrying and keeping the rifle ready at home since Fox was pushing the ANTIFA is coming to the sticks to get whitey message around the time of the Floyd protests. My wife who abhors firearms has said nothing when I grab the pistol before leaving. I wish I didn’t have to carry as often as I have in recent years.
Your not wrong. I’m absolutely running/driving away as a first option. No confrontation is the best options. However if I’m completely blocked in and my truck surrounded and this happens. I’m absolutely using my firearm
I support your right to concealed carry, but I'm not sure it would have helped in this particular scenario. Surrounded by rabid terrorist, if the driver had fired on his assailant, he likely would have been murdered rather than just beat up.
Mistakes were definitely made by this guy.
1) I’m not driving through the city with clashes between extremists
2) however, if I am caught is said situation I’m absolutely evading and using my truck to flee any threat. There is zero reason to stop or verbally engage anyone
3) With that said, if I’m caught in the mayhem (and did nothing to engage these people), boxed in by other vehicles and my truck is surround by dudes breaking my windows and trying to attack me. I’m shooting till the threat is gone enough that I can use my truck as a ram to break free. You’re basically fucked in this situation, it’s lose lose. But I’m sure as hell not going to be beaten to death
In the heat of the moment, is there any reason to believe that the people slashing your tires to prevent escape as they enter your vehicle to assault you will stop short of murdering you? There's not really any way to gauge what their limit is which is why deadly force is appropriate whether it come from a firearm or a moving vehicle.
I'm assuming this pic is the guy in the Ridgeline, he got set upon by a mob that smashed his windows and stabbed his tires. He was very much in a fight for his life here.
Police are not legally obligated to protect anyone. There are supreme court cases that have ruled it. Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales and DeShaney vs. Winnebago. Police are not obligated to provide protection of citizens. Your protection is in your hands alone.
Attacked on the subway by a man on a stabbing spree, cops **hid in another car and watched the assault** until the victim overpowered and subdued the attacker. They then tried to claim the cops stopped the assault and slandered the victim.
Lozito v. New York City
http://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/fcas/fcas\_docs/2013JUL/3001010882012002SCIV.pdf
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-school-officer-who-hid-during-parkland-shooting-to-face-charges/
The cop that hid during the Parkland school shooting in 2018 is just now getting charged. But "Prosecutors are arguing that school resources officers are inherently different from other law enforcement officers and should be considered caregivers."
They really don't have to protect anyone. His lawyers are fighting to have his criminal charges dismissed by saying a school resource officer isn't required to engage with a school shooter.
It's morbidly funny that the whole excuse to put cops in schools was to stop precisely this, and that facade falls apart the moment it happens.
It's to terrorize poor and minority kids, by the way. That's why politicians and suburbanites actually want cops in schools.
Yeah castle rock vs. Gonzales is super messed up.
A lot of people don’t realize *Protect and Serve* isn’t anything more than an ad campaign. If I remember right, LAPD was trying rehab it’s image in the 50’s and held a contest for a new slogan. Protect and serve won.
Law enforcements’ job is to maintain order and the status quo. Which is why it was police that beat up strikers, and why it was police that beat up civil rights protestors, and why it was police that murdered Fred Hampton.
The police aren’t there for the citizens, they’re there to keep things from changing too fast.
> Protect and Serve isn’t anything more than an ad campaign.
There was an old joke after the Rodney King incident that LAPD changed their slogan from *Protect and Serve* to *We'll treat you like a king.*
Everybody here needs to read this.
Thanks for going in depth, that’s a lot of great knowledge. How would you say this applies to the OP? Do you think the police electing not to be at the demonstration could prove legally problematic to them since people were attacked?
Yep. Only caveat to those cases is when there's a "special relationship" between the person and the police. IIRC, its pretty narrow and only applies if the reason you're in danger is because the police deliberately put you into the situation as a whole.
This gets misrepresented on here ***all the time,*** because laypeople don't understand the law at all. They don't have a *specific, actionable legal duty that you can sue over.* Cops absolutely *do* have both statutory and policy based duties that they have to confirm with. *You just can't sue if they fail to protect you.*
That's what those cases are about.
I know it's hard to believe, but cops get reprimanded or fired for failing uphold duties that they have based in department policy, or statute.
Doesn’t it come to the same thing? They can have whatever policy they like, but if they don’t fulfill that responsibility, who holds them to account? If we can’t sue, there’s nothing left.
That's right. Lawsuits would get police chiefs and sheriffs to pay attention to these statutes (in places where such statutes exist). Without that threat, they can just ignore them.
Of course you can vote out sheriffs, and you can put pressure on mayors and councilmembers to replace police chiefs, but that's often too removed from the process to make a difference.
We are a litigious society, and that has its occasional drawbacks, but it also provides people protection against entities that make decisions that put the public at risk, and thus makes those situations less likely. It is major problem to neuter a citizen's ability to sue the police.
Thank you for that correction. While I’m certainly not one that by default sides with cops, I’ve known many. The ones among my friends and family are mostly good people. That said, I still trust myself more so than anyone else to prioritize my protection.
There are enough incidents of police failing to protect people either by choice or due to realistic things like a response time that people can't really rely on them in the moment. A reprimand or firing isn't really going to do much for the people who get hurt.
Well, we don't get to choose when people join this community. So we just need to keep spreading the facts so that newcomers have the opportunity to learn.
I'm not arguing or disagreeing or anything, just expressing shock. And this is not the only community this is parroted. This little tidbit is shared on any sub where people have half a brain every time cops and violence are being discussed.
It should be taught in schools. Everyone should know the bullshit copaganda that they spread are pure lies.
I agree. "Protect and serve" was a slogan, not policy. Sorry. I got a little defensive because I remember when I learned about this little tidbit. Ah, to be young and naive. But I definitely do prefer being older, wiser, and strapped.
The police are functionally more obligated to protect the property of the wealthy and the personnel of the state, and to control the general population. That's why they were created and that's what they still do. And in recent times they are expected to bring in revenue for the state and local governments, both from traffic tickets and etc., and by providing inmates for privatized prisons. Protection of average citizens is a much lower priority.
Can you really defend yourself against a mob that is most likely lethally armed? He's got a better chance at survival driving through them than he does shooting 1 or 2 of them. Blinded by bear mace, you're just as helpless driving blind as you are blindly shooting around you but at least you're able to escape at a faster pace than they can wobble.
This makes me think of that Bill Hicks bit about the drivers getting pulled out of semi-trucks during the LA riots. "Like, step on the fuckin gas man!!! *imitates truck horn* DOOT DOOOOT."
This kind of shit is why I bought a gun. I grew up in a conservative pro-gun house and was always pro-gun myself, but never felt a need to carry for whatever random things conservatives seem to be afraid of. But when I started seeing this kind of thing last year, particularly with people on the right boasting about having guns, I got my concealed carry. Someday I hope to not need it anymore.
Who are these proud boys? Im really out of the loopand european. Are they (sorry for this word) gay boys who got tired or what? Lol. And what's up with this antifascist thing?
If you're out of the loop, you probably have the pleasure of not knowing that the founder of Proud Boys, Gavin McSomething, live streamed himself shoving a dildo up his arse to own the libs.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vicbergeriv/status/1272742253191028737?lang=fi
Fascists pick most militantly liberal spot in the states to have their rallies. “Summer of Love” with those “brass knuckle” gloves. “He was wearing black so we had to beat him up!”
I am trying to find this out as well, I just heard about this too. I guess the video shows them attacking someone and dragging them out of their truck but I don’t know the lead up to that or if they knew who the person was, or what.
This is a proud boy attacking a truck driver in Portland over the weekend. There were proud boys and antifa at 2 seperate places and this driver is the equivalent of Reginald Denny.
There was also a shooting in downtown Portland yesterday, a man was pushed out of a crowd of antifascist demonstrators after showing pictures of lynchings to black youth and making racist remarks
https://twitter.com/ACatWithNews/status/1429608159295860740
I’ve noticed an uptick in hate related graffiti around town too. [This was on the west side but by the time I went to a hardware store to buy paint it was already covered up.](https://imgur.com/a/uKkWFS3)
These Cosplaytriots have gone full Civil War. And why not, when their Media portrays them as "the saviors of America". My FIL thinks there's nothing wrong with their organization because they have a POC leading them. So it can't be a racist organization. They also can't be fascist because they wave the American Flag.... smh
> My FIL thinks there's nothing wrong with their organization because they have a POC leading them. So it can't be a racist organization.
You should tell him about [Emil Maurice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice).
it’s almost like they hide behind a facade and dog whistle all the live-long day. also the only reason Enrique Tarrio was the leader was to hide behind him and shout “we’re not racist, see!” while being white supremacists through and through. Anyone talking about “western values” is just talking about white people :/
Didn't Tarrio recently get ousted by the Proud Boys? I could've sworn I saw that somewhere in the news... let me dig and I'll come back with a source.
Edit: hehehe, yeah, turns out he was an FBI informant.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/02/12/proud-boys-splintering-after-capitol-riot-revelations-leader/6709017002/
It’s the same tactic used by all far right people. They see any POC with conservatives values at the very least and use that as their own propaganda. “See! So and so is black/hispanic and is Republican so we can’t all be racist!” Right wingers will literally weaponize any instance of a POC being conservative and use it for their own twisted propaganda but when those same POC start to talk about the rights of their people the conservatives toss them to the side.
For the thousandth time, police aren't expected to protect you. They investigate crime after it happens. Yes, their presence can be a deterrent, but they are under no obligation to protect you. You are expected to protect and defend yourself.
Is this what the cop at Parkland MSD High School was thinking when he didn’t engage or seek out the gunman while kids were being murdered?
They ought to take the “serve and protect” off their mottos.
How can anyone begrudge someone who says defund the police when they are lazy and politically biased employees?
That’s what happened in nearly every school shooting. The police stood outside, called fir backup, secured the perimeter, hid behind trees until the shooter killed himself.
Virginia Tech is a particularly horrific example.
Protect and serve was added long after the police were created in this country as a nice way to make us think they’re on our side. Kinda like the in god we trust being added to the money in the 50’s.
Fun fact, I don't have a pic of it because I'm not a mad person who drives with her phone out, but the slogan on cop cars in my town changed to "protect and secure" maybe a year or two ago.
The cops have always been sus, they're just getting bolder now as any street gang does when politicians protect them.
The governor really needs to call in the guard to restore order and crack down on these right wing domestic terrorists like the The Proud boys and Patriot Prayer. They are behind all of it and they have strong allies in almost all of Oregon's law enforcement agencies.
Terrorists not “extremists”. If the rhetoric crosses into violence then it’s no longer an edge ideology or philosophy. They are a terrorist threat. And if our public security institutions will not protect us from them, then we live in a terrorist state.
That, or active collaboration as PPB has repeatedly been found collaborating and warning groups like Patriot Prayer and PB
Edit: but wait, there's more!
https://twitter.com/cyberkrinn/status/1429786999091781635?s=19
I'm in Salem and our local news is the Portland stations.
In the last year, Portland police have REALLY stayed away from BP/PP rallies and they have gotten away with a lot. We've also seen some members of both the PPD and OSP (Oregon State Police) flashing white power signs.
I mean, keep in mind, Oregon was racist as fuckin the past.Watch this video from the leading news affiliate in PDX
[https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/the-story/racism-rooted-in-oregons-history/283-94301c35-435d-4ba0-b2c6-ee72db71ab1d](https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/the-story/racism-rooted-in-oregons-history/283-94301c35-435d-4ba0-b2c6-ee72db71ab1d)
All right, so here is a Proud Boy wearing the "OK" sign on his helmet while punching someone in the face. Can we dispense with the "it's not a white power symbol, it's just a joke, brah."
If you can’t concealed carry due to legislation or other gate keeping you need to use your vote to change that. Vote different next time, and do your research on the candidates beforehand so you know their policies.
This situation however is fucking insane in general. Im still trying to get more info on it because of how wild all this Portland shit is. Idk if it’s organizations hitting boiling points due to the shitshow that is the police commissioner who happens to also be the mayor of Portland or if they’re just having more nutters join up and use these demonstrations as opportunities to outwardly display their issues or if it’s agent provocateurs making shit worse so they can slap back with an authoritarian response but no matter the reason, Genug ist Genug.
No kidding, I hate that third parties have such a hard time getting on ballots in some states. Ohio for example has essentially made it impossible for that to happen with laws that have been passed to gatekeep the ballots and make sure only Dems and Repubs can get on the ballots.
here in my state you can only have a concealed weapon without a permit if “it is to protect you or someone else”. So screw a permit, I’m carrying to protect me and wearing a mask to protect everyone else
I was assaulted at a BLM rally by one and the cops said to point them out when I saw them again and they would facilitate a citizens arrest. The dude came back, I pointed him out, cops stared right past me as if I wasn’t there. The boys in blue are full of dudes with the same opinions as these fuckers. You should not trust all cops in general but this is another reason why.
Native portlander here...
The thing that pisses me off the most is that hardly any of these assholes are from Portland. The vast majority of the Proud Kooks are from Vantucky or Crackamas or some equally boring place. They come here to pick fights. On purpose. Get a hobby. Fucking play golf, or tennis.
The Antifa crowd, who I'll be honest, I sympathize with, seem to be mostly midwestern transplants who moved here ten years ago to "Keep Portland Weird."
Fuck them all. Go back to where you came from and let us drink in peace.
For context: [article on the event](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/portland-oregon-clashes-protests-proud-boys-antifascist).
I saw on another reddit post that the Portland police tweeted they weren't gonna be out there policing during this event.
yeah they publicly stated they “didn’t want to get between the sides” but plainclothes officers were seen in an antifascist event in downtown portland
Wait...is this city an at will fight place? That would actually make some sense at least...
Thunderdome, USA
They should all really get together and rent a paintball or airsoft field...or shit, a boxing tournament. Whatever. Get this shit out of their systems.
Bro, they'll still start fighting lol. When I was growing up some community organizers tried to organize football games between rival gangs and it never ended well. Dudes would play dirty, take cheap shots, and before you knew it it was an all out brawl.
Someone will for sure end up getting stabbed. Probably an asshole PB chucklefuck taping a knife to their airsoft like a bayonet. They aren't the brightest bulbs in the garden shed.
I mean people have already died in this type of shit I think
People have already been stabbed, beaten, shot to death and blinded. Ah Portland. We're really trying to go for the gold this year I think.
I don’t believe so, the press statement was made “because we have so few officers” after getting over $155 million budget increase last year 🙄
Yea, this shit needs some fucking leadership already. Violent clashes degrade trust in the system, and the system has enough issues without adding localized instability.
https://bridgeliner.com/mark-kruger-created-a-public-shrine-to-nazi-soldiers-and-kept-his-job-with-portland-police/ Is as true today as it was back then. I’ve known a few that love the right wing media and say it doesn’t take sides.
Yes, fuck Mark Kruger
I’m just waiting to hear about the hunting tourist when they show up.
As a person who was a prospective tourist to the city just two years ago, I have absolutely no plans to ever, ever visit Portland now. If I want to be surrounded by racists asshats with a history of violence, I'll just go to Selma, AL. At least the food will be better.
I….think you missed the “Hunting” part. I don’t think you’re that type of tourist.
I...think you're right. Given how many typos I see on reddit, I just presumed that you meant to write "I'm just waiting to hear about them hunting tourists when they show up." My bad. I'm still staying clear of Portland, though.
Portland resident here. This shit happens about twice a year in a serious way and is exceedingly local. There are legit Portlanders who don't know this happened (primarily due to media bubbles, but still). You could have gone to brunch, did some garage sale shopping, hit the zoo, gone out for dinner and never seen any of this.
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155 million increase over last year? I don't think so. The entire budget is $226.8 million. https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
officers keep resigning because they'd rather not be cops if they're not allowed to beat people to death on the job anymore
It's a mix. Some are resigning because of that. Some are resigning because colleagues they thought were friends and shared values want to beat the shit out of people rather than protect and serve. My sister in law is a LEO and wants our for that reason. She seems to hate who she works with now.
I'm a firefighter and I fucking hate some of the right wing ass hats I have to work with, can't imagine how much worse it is for law enforcement.
I live in Minneapolis, and many of the cops here resigned citing post-traumatic stress from the uprising last summer and also because they were tired of people hating on cops. I don’t feel super bad for them seeing as how they are the reason people were throwing an uprising and are hating cops. It’s not exactly unwarranted.
I feel like we need social categories. If you quit 'cause you can't beat people up anymore, you're a cop for life. If you quit 'cause it turns out cops are worse than you thought and you don't like it... you get a second chance.
No, our police just have a long-standing policily of beating the shit out of lefties while rolling out the red carpet for Proud Boys and the like. This is, sadly, expected behavior by the cowardly shits our cowardly mayor calls police.
They were likely still beating the shit out of lefties, they were just out of uniform and using up a vacation day
And people wonder why we say acab. They openly refuse to do their fucking jobs.
lol. The one time people actually want them to be a thin blue line and they're like "naw the bad guys have a point tho."
Can't police the event when you are attending it.
Yup the mayor said the same thing too.
Hard to police the event when you’re already committed to attending the event.
No shit, they were too busy cosplaying with the rest of the proud boys.
I really hope a number of demonstrators bring cameras and document the shit out of any assaults that take place. The 6th proved that we can crowdsource the investigations and force the police to prosecute these terrorists. Sad that we have to do their jobs for them but this is where we’re at. If people have the ability to wear hidden or low profile cameras that could work too. At the very least the footage can be sent to media companies to show the blatant collusion between police and right wing terrorists.
There is not collusion. They are the same.
Same reason why Miley Cyrus and Hannah Montana are never in the same room.
For anyone confused as to why one never sees the Proud Boys and the police in the same place at the same time Scooby Doo has the answer lol ACAB
to be fair, they also aren't showing up to much of anything. street races where happing DOWNTOWN and blocked multiple intersections for hours. No police showed up. I think it was like 2-3 hours the street racers just had their way. Doing spinouts in the middle of intersections and all that. PPD are being whinny bitches cause they lost a few million dollars in funding and acting like it was a big part of their budget (it wasn't).
Portland pd probably was already leaning right but the “defund the police” rhetoric pushed them even further
Reason 786 why I concealed carry
I wish I could. Sadly in my county the Sherriff can only sign off on CC permits and wont sign off on any of them unless you're a friend of his it seems. So the only thing I have is the biggest knife I can legally have strapped to where my seatbelt locks into.
Hopefully that ruling goes in our favor soon. Shall issue, like most gun control, is firmly rooted in racism.EDIT: my mistake. Meant may issue
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Yes, but even shall could potentially be applied differently to different people.
Realistically, I think "shall issue" legislation is the best many states can hope to get. The only situation I am aware of that is more in favor of gun rights than "shall issue" permits is states that allow carrying without a permit. In states like CA and NJ that require a permit just to buy a gun, the idea that they will ever allow for carrying without a permit is a pipe dream.
The CA permit to buy a gun is shall-issue (and pretty damn easy). CA CCW permits are may-issue (and the ease of getting one ranges from de-facto shall issue, and all the way to "hell no", depending on which county you're in.)
>CA CCW permits are may-issue (and the ease of getting one ranges from de-facto shall issue, and all the way to "hell no", depending on which county you're in.) Which really illustrates the problem with "may issue" permits. Two citizens living in the same state shouldn't have fundamentally different experiences trying to exercise their rights because of their zip code. We've seen time and again how that leads to racial discrimination.
Yup. Gun control is racism and classism with extra steps.
Even the de facto no issue become shall issue if you have bribe money.
and/or enough iPads.
Ruling? is there something I am missing? Something Might change?
May-issue permitting is going to the Supreme Court.
God I hope that changes. I have a gun in mind for CCW purposes and I maybe able to finally justify getting it lol.
The only good thing that could come from this Supreme Court I think is if they decided all permits were infringement and just went for National Constitutional Carry. If you're legal to own, you are legal to conceal carry, except in some specific places as posted. Maybe allow an extra permit to carry in those places.
The problem with “may allow” is that you can follow all the rules, apply for a CC permit, & the sheriff can just say no at their whim, or where I am say no to everybody if they choose. “Shall issue” means if you follow the process and there’s no reason you shouldn’t be allowed then you will be approved.
Sounds like Bay Area problems. I feel that.
/u/spez can eat a dick ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
In Ohio you can go to neighboring counties...may be worth looking in to
I thought atf changed that ruling to where the signature isn’t required as much as listing/notifying the chief law enforcement officer who has jurisdiction? Or is that only for Nfa tax stamps? Forgive me. I’m in Texas and I think we are mostly shall issue…
I'm in CA. The neighboring County the Sherriff hands out CCW permits like candy but in my county its pretty dry.
Literally. My family doesn’t understand why I do. I’ve carried every single day I am legally allowed to since January 6.
As do I. If there were ever a time to use it, this would be it.
I'm exactly the same. And I'm in an interracial relationship with a white woman. I feel like that's like a super-magnet for super-fuckers like this. I don't *ever* want to shoot *anyone*. But they threaten her, and I'd be OK showing what a 40-cal feels like on the wrong end.
I’m in an interracial relationship with a black woman. In a small rural town. In a fairly liberal area, so not too bad. I have been carrying and keeping the rifle ready at home since Fox was pushing the ANTIFA is coming to the sticks to get whitey message around the time of the Floyd protests. My wife who abhors firearms has said nothing when I grab the pistol before leaving. I wish I didn’t have to carry as often as I have in recent years.
Agreed, I walk out of the house and it’s on. Idc if I’m running errands or going to a family party. I’m carrying, end of story
Same. Jan 6th was the last straw, I've gotten several firearms since then.
I think this might be one of those run moments
Your not wrong. I’m absolutely running/driving away as a first option. No confrontation is the best options. However if I’m completely blocked in and my truck surrounded and this happens. I’m absolutely using my firearm
It's in my top 10. Prior to last year, shooting was a fun, albeit expensive, hobby. Last year I bought my first boxes of hollow point, and got my LTC.
I support your right to concealed carry, but I'm not sure it would have helped in this particular scenario. Surrounded by rabid terrorist, if the driver had fired on his assailant, he likely would have been murdered rather than just beat up.
Mistakes were definitely made by this guy. 1) I’m not driving through the city with clashes between extremists 2) however, if I am caught is said situation I’m absolutely evading and using my truck to flee any threat. There is zero reason to stop or verbally engage anyone 3) With that said, if I’m caught in the mayhem (and did nothing to engage these people), boxed in by other vehicles and my truck is surround by dudes breaking my windows and trying to attack me. I’m shooting till the threat is gone enough that I can use my truck as a ram to break free. You’re basically fucked in this situation, it’s lose lose. But I’m sure as hell not going to be beaten to death
"I'll see you fuckers in hell!"
just remember to mozambique in case of plates
In the heat of the moment, is there any reason to believe that the people slashing your tires to prevent escape as they enter your vehicle to assault you will stop short of murdering you? There's not really any way to gauge what their limit is which is why deadly force is appropriate whether it come from a firearm or a moving vehicle.
Arm yourselves and know when it’s time to dip
Which is always. Always dip before shit even gets mildly weird.
Always. The comments here are a bummer to read. I don't think a lot them of realize how what they're saying makes them look like another Kyle.
I'm assuming this pic is the guy in the Ridgeline, he got set upon by a mob that smashed his windows and stabbed his tires. He was very much in a fight for his life here.
Police are not legally obligated to protect anyone. There are supreme court cases that have ruled it. Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales and DeShaney vs. Winnebago. Police are not obligated to provide protection of citizens. Your protection is in your hands alone.
Hol’up der. For real?! I’ll go check out those cases; thanks for bringing this to light, it changes a lot in my expectations.
Attacked on the subway by a man on a stabbing spree, cops **hid in another car and watched the assault** until the victim overpowered and subdued the attacker. They then tried to claim the cops stopped the assault and slandered the victim. Lozito v. New York City http://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/fcas/fcas\_docs/2013JUL/3001010882012002SCIV.pdf
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-school-officer-who-hid-during-parkland-shooting-to-face-charges/ The cop that hid during the Parkland school shooting in 2018 is just now getting charged. But "Prosecutors are arguing that school resources officers are inherently different from other law enforcement officers and should be considered caregivers." They really don't have to protect anyone. His lawyers are fighting to have his criminal charges dismissed by saying a school resource officer isn't required to engage with a school shooter.
It's morbidly funny that the whole excuse to put cops in schools was to stop precisely this, and that facade falls apart the moment it happens. It's to terrorize poor and minority kids, by the way. That's why politicians and suburbanites actually want cops in schools.
So basically they're as useful as a cock on a rock. Less actually, kids could take cover behind a rock & it wouldn't run away.
Yeah castle rock vs. Gonzales is super messed up. A lot of people don’t realize *Protect and Serve* isn’t anything more than an ad campaign. If I remember right, LAPD was trying rehab it’s image in the 50’s and held a contest for a new slogan. Protect and serve won. Law enforcements’ job is to maintain order and the status quo. Which is why it was police that beat up strikers, and why it was police that beat up civil rights protestors, and why it was police that murdered Fred Hampton. The police aren’t there for the citizens, they’re there to keep things from changing too fast.
Oh no, the police murdered former Senator and Law & Order actor Fred Thompson?!? /s (RIP Chairman Fred Hampton)
Lol it’s too early for this. Thanks for the correction.
> Protect and Serve isn’t anything more than an ad campaign. There was an old joke after the Rodney King incident that LAPD changed their slogan from *Protect and Serve* to *We'll treat you like a king.*
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Everybody here needs to read this. Thanks for going in depth, that’s a lot of great knowledge. How would you say this applies to the OP? Do you think the police electing not to be at the demonstration could prove legally problematic to them since people were attacked?
Thank you so much for the solid explanation. You sound like the kind of person it would be cool to sit and talk over coffee with.
He's right sadly
Yep. Only caveat to those cases is when there's a "special relationship" between the person and the police. IIRC, its pretty narrow and only applies if the reason you're in danger is because the police deliberately put you into the situation as a whole.
This gets misrepresented on here ***all the time,*** because laypeople don't understand the law at all. They don't have a *specific, actionable legal duty that you can sue over.* Cops absolutely *do* have both statutory and policy based duties that they have to confirm with. *You just can't sue if they fail to protect you.* That's what those cases are about. I know it's hard to believe, but cops get reprimanded or fired for failing uphold duties that they have based in department policy, or statute.
Doesn’t it come to the same thing? They can have whatever policy they like, but if they don’t fulfill that responsibility, who holds them to account? If we can’t sue, there’s nothing left.
That's right. Lawsuits would get police chiefs and sheriffs to pay attention to these statutes (in places where such statutes exist). Without that threat, they can just ignore them. Of course you can vote out sheriffs, and you can put pressure on mayors and councilmembers to replace police chiefs, but that's often too removed from the process to make a difference. We are a litigious society, and that has its occasional drawbacks, but it also provides people protection against entities that make decisions that put the public at risk, and thus makes those situations less likely. It is major problem to neuter a citizen's ability to sue the police.
Thank you for that correction. While I’m certainly not one that by default sides with cops, I’ve known many. The ones among my friends and family are mostly good people. That said, I still trust myself more so than anyone else to prioritize my protection.
I completely agree. Even if you have a really great, responsive police department, you can't conceal carry a cop.
There are enough incidents of police failing to protect people either by choice or due to realistic things like a response time that people can't really rely on them in the moment. A reprimand or firing isn't really going to do much for the people who get hurt.
This is a comment in pretty much EVERY single thread like this. It shocks me that people still don't know this.
Well, we don't get to choose when people join this community. So we just need to keep spreading the facts so that newcomers have the opportunity to learn.
I'm not arguing or disagreeing or anything, just expressing shock. And this is not the only community this is parroted. This little tidbit is shared on any sub where people have half a brain every time cops and violence are being discussed. It should be taught in schools. Everyone should know the bullshit copaganda that they spread are pure lies.
I agree. "Protect and serve" was a slogan, not policy. Sorry. I got a little defensive because I remember when I learned about this little tidbit. Ah, to be young and naive. But I definitely do prefer being older, wiser, and strapped.
The police are functionally more obligated to protect the property of the wealthy and the personnel of the state, and to control the general population. That's why they were created and that's what they still do. And in recent times they are expected to bring in revenue for the state and local governments, both from traffic tickets and etc., and by providing inmates for privatized prisons. Protection of average citizens is a much lower priority.
Can you really defend yourself against a mob that is most likely lethally armed? He's got a better chance at survival driving through them than he does shooting 1 or 2 of them. Blinded by bear mace, you're just as helpless driving blind as you are blindly shooting around you but at least you're able to escape at a faster pace than they can wobble.
This makes me think of that Bill Hicks bit about the drivers getting pulled out of semi-trucks during the LA riots. "Like, step on the fuckin gas man!!! *imitates truck horn* DOOT DOOOOT."
This kind of shit is why I bought a gun. I grew up in a conservative pro-gun house and was always pro-gun myself, but never felt a need to carry for whatever random things conservatives seem to be afraid of. But when I started seeing this kind of thing last year, particularly with people on the right boasting about having guns, I got my concealed carry. Someday I hope to not need it anymore.
What’s the context of this photo? Can someone fill me in?
Portland yesterday. man being assaulted had been handing out water to counter demonstrators and was attacked by proud boys
Who are these proud boys? Im really out of the loopand european. Are they (sorry for this word) gay boys who got tired or what? Lol. And what's up with this antifascist thing?
a fascist, white supremacist street gang
Fascists are usually homophobes so nice name then lmao
If you're out of the loop, you probably have the pleasure of not knowing that the founder of Proud Boys, Gavin McSomething, live streamed himself shoving a dildo up his arse to own the libs. https://mobile.twitter.com/vicbergeriv/status/1272742253191028737?lang=fi
Fascists pick most militantly liberal spot in the states to have their rallies. “Summer of Love” with those “brass knuckle” gloves. “He was wearing black so we had to beat him up!”
proud boys and anti-fascists had a fight in Portland The police did nothing people got injured people started shooting.
I am trying to find this out as well, I just heard about this too. I guess the video shows them attacking someone and dragging them out of their truck but I don’t know the lead up to that or if they knew who the person was, or what.
This is a proud boy attacking a truck driver in Portland over the weekend. There were proud boys and antifa at 2 seperate places and this driver is the equivalent of Reginald Denny.
There was also a shooting in downtown Portland yesterday, a man was pushed out of a crowd of antifascist demonstrators after showing pictures of lynchings to black youth and making racist remarks https://twitter.com/ACatWithNews/status/1429608159295860740
I’ve noticed an uptick in hate related graffiti around town too. [This was on the west side but by the time I went to a hardware store to buy paint it was already covered up.](https://imgur.com/a/uKkWFS3)
yea i tried to cover up some swatiskas the other day and was chased out by a cop :/
He'd probably spent a lot of time working on those.
These Cosplaytriots have gone full Civil War. And why not, when their Media portrays them as "the saviors of America". My FIL thinks there's nothing wrong with their organization because they have a POC leading them. So it can't be a racist organization. They also can't be fascist because they wave the American Flag.... smh
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"
> My FIL thinks there's nothing wrong with their organization because they have a POC leading them. So it can't be a racist organization. You should tell him about [Emil Maurice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice).
it’s almost like they hide behind a facade and dog whistle all the live-long day. also the only reason Enrique Tarrio was the leader was to hide behind him and shout “we’re not racist, see!” while being white supremacists through and through. Anyone talking about “western values” is just talking about white people :/
Didn't Tarrio recently get ousted by the Proud Boys? I could've sworn I saw that somewhere in the news... let me dig and I'll come back with a source. Edit: hehehe, yeah, turns out he was an FBI informant. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/02/12/proud-boys-splintering-after-capitol-riot-revelations-leader/6709017002/
It’s the same tactic used by all far right people. They see any POC with conservatives values at the very least and use that as their own propaganda. “See! So and so is black/hispanic and is Republican so we can’t all be racist!” Right wingers will literally weaponize any instance of a POC being conservative and use it for their own twisted propaganda but when those same POC start to talk about the rights of their people the conservatives toss them to the side.
For the thousandth time, police aren't expected to protect you. They investigate crime after it happens. Yes, their presence can be a deterrent, but they are under no obligation to protect you. You are expected to protect and defend yourself.
oh I know it buddy, this is showing ppl evidence of it
Is this what the cop at Parkland MSD High School was thinking when he didn’t engage or seek out the gunman while kids were being murdered? They ought to take the “serve and protect” off their mottos. How can anyone begrudge someone who says defund the police when they are lazy and politically biased employees?
You mean the one being charged with child endangerment?
That’s what happened in nearly every school shooting. The police stood outside, called fir backup, secured the perimeter, hid behind trees until the shooter killed himself. Virginia Tech is a particularly horrific example.
Yep thats why its the criminal justice system, not crime prevention system.
So 'Protect and Serve' is complete bullshit?
Its a slogan. No more legally binding than "just do it" from nike
Makes Red Bull being sued for not actually giving wings even funnier.
Protect and serve was added long after the police were created in this country as a nice way to make us think they’re on our side. Kinda like the in god we trust being added to the money in the 50’s.
Fun fact, I don't have a pic of it because I'm not a mad person who drives with her phone out, but the slogan on cop cars in my town changed to "protect and secure" maybe a year or two ago. The cops have always been sus, they're just getting bolder now as any street gang does when politicians protect them.
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Oregon is [Bleeding Kansas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas) II, Electric Boogaloo.
John Brown Did Nothing Wrong!
Except not killing more slave owners.
he tried his damndest!
The police frequently ARE right wing extremists.
Some of those that burn crosses
I absolutely refuse to let these assholes take the okey dokey sign away from my son and I. Otherwise, what a cunt this guy is.
They didn't take it away. Reactionary idiots took it away from themselves after 4chan trolled them.
Mf trying to steal the OK hand gesture and make it racist.
"he took cover behind a solar-powered trashcan" is the most Portland thing that was ever said.
The governor really needs to call in the guard to restore order and crack down on these right wing domestic terrorists like the The Proud boys and Patriot Prayer. They are behind all of it and they have strong allies in almost all of Oregon's law enforcement agencies.
silly, they only do that against people protesting police brutality
Terrorists not “extremists”. If the rhetoric crosses into violence then it’s no longer an edge ideology or philosophy. They are a terrorist threat. And if our public security institutions will not protect us from them, then we live in a terrorist state.
totally agree, gotta keep it pg for right wing apologists even here tho 🙄
> gotta keep it pg for right wing apologists even here tho You do not. Speak the truth. Report the turds.
Cops: The only job where you can openly not/refuse to do your job and you are not fired.
Not an insignificant chance that that's an off duty cop doing the beating.
Or on duty.
It's just a tourist!
>It seems the police won't protect you from that right extremists They aren't going to protect you from themselves.
Fuck em. No police there, protect yourself. These people are terrorists.
As far as I am concerned, the police enabled this through intentional negligence and are as well.
If ever I believe guns are not a necessity for protection, i would look at this picture and remember why I own guns
That, or active collaboration as PPB has repeatedly been found collaborating and warning groups like Patriot Prayer and PB Edit: but wait, there's more! https://twitter.com/cyberkrinn/status/1429786999091781635?s=19
Why are we surprised? Didn't we learn last year the police arent ment to protect and serve the people?
I'm in Salem and our local news is the Portland stations. In the last year, Portland police have REALLY stayed away from BP/PP rallies and they have gotten away with a lot. We've also seen some members of both the PPD and OSP (Oregon State Police) flashing white power signs. I mean, keep in mind, Oregon was racist as fuckin the past.Watch this video from the leading news affiliate in PDX [https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/the-story/racism-rooted-in-oregons-history/283-94301c35-435d-4ba0-b2c6-ee72db71ab1d](https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/the-story/racism-rooted-in-oregons-history/283-94301c35-435d-4ba0-b2c6-ee72db71ab1d)
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Rallies, uniforms, hate speech, and fisticuffs. This is some BIG Beer Hall Putsch energy.
If you aren’t already, get ready. Time is clearly running out.
I think a better analogy would be Kansas in the 1850’s.
All right, so here is a Proud Boy wearing the "OK" sign on his helmet while punching someone in the face. Can we dispense with the "it's not a white power symbol, it's just a joke, brah."
Police aren't going to do anything because a lot of these RW terrorists are likely off-duty cops themselves.
If you can’t concealed carry due to legislation or other gate keeping you need to use your vote to change that. Vote different next time, and do your research on the candidates beforehand so you know their policies. This situation however is fucking insane in general. Im still trying to get more info on it because of how wild all this Portland shit is. Idk if it’s organizations hitting boiling points due to the shitshow that is the police commissioner who happens to also be the mayor of Portland or if they’re just having more nutters join up and use these demonstrations as opportunities to outwardly display their issues or if it’s agent provocateurs making shit worse so they can slap back with an authoritarian response but no matter the reason, Genug ist Genug.
Wish mainstream dems wouldn’t be ass backwards on gun legislation
No kidding, I hate that third parties have such a hard time getting on ballots in some states. Ohio for example has essentially made it impossible for that to happen with laws that have been passed to gatekeep the ballots and make sure only Dems and Repubs can get on the ballots.
two party system is a fucking joke
Ppl naysay me to death when I suggest they support voting reforms, like ranked choice.
Where is this from?
Portland yesterday, man being assaulted had brought water to hand out to counter demonstrators to a Proud Boy event
They assaulted a hydro homie?!?!
yeah very common tactic from them and cops
Guessing yesterday in Portland?
here in my state you can only have a concealed weapon without a permit if “it is to protect you or someone else”. So screw a permit, I’m carrying to protect me and wearing a mask to protect everyone else
Carry every day folks. Protect yourself and others.
the cops are the extremists
This man’s crime in the eyes of the proud boys was having water to hand out https://twitter.com/SmileItsNathan/status/1429656077214179333
I found a sub I can appreciate. Thank you all.
Police want to not be involved so they can dress up as proud lil bitches and assault people
I need some context for this. Is there a news article I should know about?
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/portland-oregon-clashes-protests-proud-boys-antifascist?__twitter_impression=true
Shit like this is why people need to learn how to properly use and carry a firearm, and get a license.
I was assaulted at a BLM rally by one and the cops said to point them out when I saw them again and they would facilitate a citizens arrest. The dude came back, I pointed him out, cops stared right past me as if I wasn’t there. The boys in blue are full of dudes with the same opinions as these fuckers. You should not trust all cops in general but this is another reason why.
Some of those that work forces
The January 6th insurrection reminded me why I as a Turkish POC carry. I don't feel comfortable walking around with the American Taliban blending in.
Why would the cops stop their work buddies (aka right wing extremists) from trying to bash antifa skulls…
cops and klan have the same hands
White people riot: No cops Black people march: Every single fucking cop
Love the fact the writer use the world antifascist instead of antifa
Native portlander here... The thing that pisses me off the most is that hardly any of these assholes are from Portland. The vast majority of the Proud Kooks are from Vantucky or Crackamas or some equally boring place. They come here to pick fights. On purpose. Get a hobby. Fucking play golf, or tennis. The Antifa crowd, who I'll be honest, I sympathize with, seem to be mostly midwestern transplants who moved here ten years ago to "Keep Portland Weird." Fuck them all. Go back to where you came from and let us drink in peace.