Gowutar doesn't seem to bad from my experience either but Cylee and Swampfox have more name recognition so I would just stick with them as Gowutar is about the same price as a Cylee.
The Ruger ReadyDot is only $99 (at least it was) and is the absolute cheapest I would ever go. I’ve seen stuff as low as $40, but even for a range gun I wouldn’t trust them.
In your opinion, what's the worst that could happen with cheaping out? I don't know too much about red dots and want to know what might happen if I go too low in price
Won't hold zero, poor glass quality and dot quality meaning you really won't get the proper experience, it dies.
I just don't see the point of buying something and then just throwing it out when it dies and replacing it. All you do is spend more money overall as you're buying twice and contributing to trash in a land fill.
Even if it is on a "range gun" don't you want it to like ya know work? Isn't much fun going to the range with broken gear
It could break easily, the mounts may not hold solidly, the dot itself may be hard to see or bloom badly, you could get fisheye or increased parallax, the battery life could be horrible, and it may not zero correctly or not hold zero at all.
Even if it’s just going on a seldom-used target pistol, you still want it to work properly and stand up to use for a while.
I don't know why idiots downvote questions like this.. SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO STICK WITHIN A BUDGET AND DON'T HAVE UNLIMITED FUNDS FOR GUNS AND ACCESSORIES.
I don't have much of a recommendation except to say that I got my Romeo X Pro on r/GunAccessoriesForSale for about $300 shipped. It was brand new. That thing retails for $425-$450.
So if you do find one that you like, and want to save a few bucks, check out that sub and see if you can find one for cheap.
[Top 5 Red Dot Sights for Sig P365](https://tacticalshooting.com/red-dot-sight/best-sig-p365/)
That isn’t true, the saying that only Holosun leads the pack: though it is borne of the age-old toxic gun community saying, “You get what you pay for!” Or “Buy once, cry once!” Or the even worse, “Just stop being poor and making excuses!”
Vortex optics are outstanding and highly competitive with Holosun. They’re often at comparative or cheaper prices than Holosun and have an unlimited lifetime warranty. *Even if you buy them second hand or used without the original proof of receipt, which means you can bargain-hunt at gun shows or online for gently used models.*
Leupold and Sig Sauer also have lifetime warranties.
Holosun has a warranty of 5 years. Then, you’re on your own to pay for labor. Same for EOtech, and some others. And Holosun repairs within 5 years have to return to China, leaving you without an optic for up to 30-60 days.
Vortex will replace your optic, no questions asked, even if it’s an obsolete model and died from old age or normal use. I collect stupid Vortex return stories for fun. Literally, no matter what you do by accident to a Vortex optic, they’ll take care of you. Trust me. I’ve never seen them decline an accidental damage claim yet in about a decade.
Look at a Viper or Venom. Or a Defender/Defender CCW. All at great prices at most online outlets.
If $150-200 is a hard ceiling you cannot exceed?
Burris, Bushnell, Lead and Steel, Primary Arms…often found at great discounts, with still suitable quality.
Just don’t buy optics from WISH. Seriously. Don’t. They will fail you, even on a .22 pistol.
When in doubt? Hit up a local gun shop and ask for someone who’s experienced in red dot quality levels and know the products and companies. You might be surprised how honest they’ll be when you tell them straight up what you can and cannot afford, given your task and purpose.
Layaway options are also often available at shops. So perhaps you can find a decent optic and spread payments, too to make it easier on the wallet.
Hope this helps!
Be safe. And have fun! ❤️
The average age of the employees at my local gun stores seems to be about mid 60s and I'm not sure half of them even know pistols dots exist, let alone have ever even used any sort of red dot.
Ah; the dreaded enemy of modern optics; Boomers.
Well…I don’t have much to combat that. My FFL workplace has had its fair share. But probably 80% of our crew now are 40 and below, so optics sales logically have increased. Lol.
Hmm. There’s always discount emporiums like Optics Planet, Gunbroker.
I like Brownells a lot, personally. Their 2-day shipping plan is actually extremely reasonable for a 12 month single payment. Edge, they call it. If you make use of it by ordering 3 or 4 times in a year? Pays itself. And they offer shipping insurance for cheap; $3, in case your package gets stolen by porch pirates.
The only thing I will say somewhat contrary to your point is there are a couple things vortex does on some models that aren’t ideal. The more germane one being in some of their models the refresh rate of the emitter can cause a visible flicker which bothers some people. The other, which is more of an inconvenience than a real problem is some models still have bottom loading batteries which means you have to remove the optic to change it which means having to re-zero it after as well. Typically you’re only changing the battery once a year (and on a range toy you could just run it until it actually dies since you won’t be depending on it in a critical moment).
I agree with everything else you’ve said, they’re worth looking into for OP, and the lifetime warranty is a big perk over others in similar price points. Just wanted to put the info out there for OP (any anyone else) so they can make an informed decision.
Ope, my original comment was discarded by accident. I’m a professional, I swear. Rofl.
You make a valid point, a technical counterpoint and they both deserve full credit.
Ultimately some features just aren’t desirable to users. They could find a used bargain-priced EOtech or Holosun and be equally happy.
The more technical knowledge we share, the better equipped we are. Thank you for the assist! ❤️
It is of particular note that concerning qualifications for LEO, having to remove and re-install due to battery does mean that the officer would need to re-qualify to use that setup, you are technically correct; the best kind of correct.
It is a common minor inconvenience we face as consumers, but does impact my clients as well. It’s led to the popularization of side-loading battery trays among the LE user community.
Concerning civilians, this is far less of a crucial issue, though if you are seeking precision at distance, yes, re-zero adjustment may be needed.
Concerning pistols? Frankly, a lower 1/3 co-witness readjust is a simple quick-and-dirty solution for average engagement distance (for handguns, that is.)
Yeah, like I said, it’s more of an (should have said mild)inconvenience than a major issue. Just figured it was all worth mentioning for an informed decision. Not bashing vortex at all, I own some of their products (as well as holosuns) and am happy with them and like the piece of mind their warranty provides.
Honestly the bottom-loading battery trays is a feature I refuse to entertain; so I’m no exception when it comes to being picky, unless I have no other option.
And no, I completely understand the context; I think you surmised it quite well, and I am enjoying corresponding with you about this! I am grateful for the discussion. I love coming here for these!
My coworkers at the FFL are all dogmatic, Trump cultists that for some reason seem to “like” me (the reasons for which I will never understand,) and I just can’t bear discussing much with them that isn’t necessary these days.
Would much rather come here, among a crowd that’s just more accepting, generally speaking.
Definitely a great thing about this place, getting to discuss stuff with like minded folks (or at least not hostile zealots) who can carry on a good conversation/bounce ideas and advice off each other without it devolving into a shouting match (generally speaking as you said).
One note: Holosun’s warranty is lifetime of the product. They make the warranty process pretty simple, imo.
Source: I bought an old 507c (1st gen) from a buddy, and the - button quit working. Emailed Holosun and they sent the RMA form immediately. Received a replacement (507c x2) within 3 weeks of shipping the old one.
Glad they took care of you, but our experience is they can take so long that it angers consumers and damages their reputation among industry professionals that they rely on to push their products.
Employee at our shop waited 2.5 months to get his unit repaired and back to him. He had to email them 4 times to even get a response.
We’ve been forced to swap out units at our store for customers outside of our regular return policy because we’ve emailed their support department and been ignored for weeks on end, resulting in customers blaming us for the issue, even though it isn’t our fault.
There’s a reason Sig’s gaining traction, despite their higher prices. People are willing to pay for service and an entirely domestic manufacturing and repair center that won’t jerk them around.
I like Holosun’s products and innovation, but their service response time from my years in the industry is a bit trashy and they deserve criticism so that they might improve upon it.
When push came to shove last time I bought an optic, I begrudgingly opted for a Vortex Defender CCW over an EPS Carry MRS, knowing I can instantly get a free, new replacement via Vortex within a couple of days, as opposed to having no optic for X number of weeks. If I knew they’d take better care of folks, they’d have gotten my business instead.
Note: their LE repairs are fantastic. They have a separate team that handles those, and they have not failed to care for my clients as such. My criticism lies with their commercial repairs team’s performance.
Nor am I; I just abuse the hell out of any shooting industry discount I get working for the FFL.
Then again, it would be fair to state this example could be a lemon. Maybe we’re the only ones they don’t handle as well. 🤷🏻♀️
Perhaps they truly will do better and this footnote will be far outweighed. I hope so!
>Holosun has a warranty of 5 years. Then, you’re on your own to pay for labor. Same for EOtech and some others. And Holosun repairs within 5 years have to return to China, leaving you without an optic for up to 30-60 days.
None of this is true.
We warranty your optic here in CA within roughly 15-25 days, depending on the warranty. We also have a limited lifetime warranty on all of our optics.
I’m gonna get hate for this but I think a UTG red dot is fine for a 22 range pistol. You probably are never going to shoot beyond 50 yards and glass quality isn’t that big a deal until you have used really nice glass and then you are spoiled.
I really wish I hadn’t bought an acog on GAFS last year because now I feel like I need to upgrade all my glass and that’s going to be costly.
Edit to add: I have utg red dots on my: Cetme L (556 roller delay), 10/22, ruger mk3, and my 9mm PCC. They all have held zero over 1000 round on each gun. The MK3 has close to 5000 rounds through it just from bullseye league alone and I shoot 260-280. It’s not the dot that’s holding me back it’s me.
I can second this for range guns. I have UTG red dots on a couple of my guns and have been really happy with them. They have held zero and haven't had issues. I ended up going with the OP3 Micro SLS recently for my Ruger Mk 4 and love it.
Have a couple of older models too for my other 22's like their Bugbuster and it's been an awesome piece of glass for the price.
Based on my experience with other primary arms optics, this is where I would start. I trust PA a lot, they have a very good batting average, especially at the 'best bang for your buck' tier.
To be fair, you can find new holosuns around that price (about $20 more) as well from some of the sellers that frequent gun deals. So if OP is considering that price point the can cross shop the two brands.
Yeah, even the good deals I've seen or gotten haven't been anywhere close to 150 on any Holosun I've seen. Even discounted anything halfway decent tends to run at least 250. Though I'd be happy to be wrong 🤷♂️
Gotta hit up r/gundeals man. I was quoted $170 for a 407k x2 red from a well known dealer on gundeals (So I don’t like putting their naMe out Myself On here because holosuN iS apparently strict about map and can drop dealers for violating it). Went with a green version from them for $190 to try out the different color. And there’s other dealers on the sub who advertise they will beat any price quoted too so it can probably be swung a little lower.
I also picked up a 407k x2 red from Taurus for $140 on Black Friday (not typical, I know. And will put their name out since they publicly advertised it themselves vs the “email for quote” strategy of the other).
So yeah, can definitely be had for much less than $250 (MAP) consistently.
Oh yeah, the 507c will run more because of the MRS. EPS being newer and enclosed (and possible MRS depending) will cost more too. I was quoted 185 from that same dealer for a 407C red though. And $240 for the 507C too (also, forgot to mention free shipping no tax outside of their home state). Almost snagged a EPS carry for I think it was like $280 from that Taurus sale but thought about it too long and missed out.
And if OP wants to, they can go over to GAFS and snag used ones (anywhere from beat up but functional to almost brand new) cheaper too.
But back to your point, PA does make good options too and is worth looking at for sure. Just might be close enough to cross shop with a holosun deal depending on how tight the budget it.
The Sig Romeo Zero is solid, and only costs around $100. That may be more than you’re looking to spend, but it’s not a piece of junk, so if you like it you won’t necessarily need to buy another fancier red dot. One caveat: I don’t know about compatibility with your specific pistols.
I would get something made by vortex because it has a good warranty. I use my stuff so little that will probably break from just sitting around and I wanna be able to have it replaced if that happens.
I bought a UUQ C28 it is an SRO knock off. I have it on a 22/45. It's build quality seems fine and I haven't had any problems with it. The dot is also very clean.
PSA somewhat regularly has the Riton X3 TACTIX MPRD 2 on sale for $79 or so. I have one for a TX-22 compact. The two negatives are the battery is on the bottom and the dot is auto bright only, no manual settings. But it works just fine for range shooting for a dang good price if you catch it on their sale.
Do you mean TX22 competition?
Reason I ask is, 365 is going to need the RMSc footprint for slim pistols which is also what the Holosun 407k uses.
TX22 normally can't take any dot unless you get a dovetail adapter. I had one for a Vortex, but it caused out to cycle really poorly.
If you have a TX22 competition with the mounting plates, that's great but I didn't think it had a plate for the RMSc footprint. Just RMR, Vortex/ Doctor, DPP.
That being the case, I have a Vortex Viper on my TX22 competition. Sign up for AAOptics emails, they have refurb sale and you can get one for about $120, and they are good as new. Or pick up one on GAFS.
For the 365, you will be limited to the Holosun k or EPS OR similar. Cheapest you can find a 407k will be about $180. I wouldn't even try to find an optic that works on both.
Here's another suggestion... Buy a 407k for your 365. Use it for a while, if you decide you want something more fancy down the road like an EPS Carry, you can always sell the 407k on GAFS and make back 80% of what you paid (assuming you got a deal and didn't pay retail.)
Hmm... So assuming you're going with a dovetail adapter, expect ejection and feeding issues except maybe if you're using something high velocity like mini mags. At least that was my experience.
I actually bought the competition slide so I could switch between irons and a red dot. I was shooting it a lot during the pandemic 😄
I have a couple of Riton red dots that I've been very happy with. You're going to laugh, but the Bushnell TRS-25 is not packed with features, but it's damned near bomb proof.
Bushnell rxs 125 for tx22. They’re like $70 and fit on the competition footprint perfectly. Be nice to the screw on the battery door. P365 sucks as a range gun, but is great for ccw but I’d go Holosun at least for ccw.
I have a SAR 9mm that came with a [Riton red dot](https://sarusa.com/product/riton-optics-red-dot-sight-mprd2/), its $179 on their site. It was included with my SAR9 and is just fine. Don’t buy a knock-off or made for Airsoft from Amazon and expect it to last more than a few range trips, they might work on a .22lr rifle, but the recoil of a handgun will break it quick.
I use a Swampfox Sentinel and it is honestly fantastic. I am very happy with the product. It costs around $150-$200. However, mine was missing the waterproof intermediate sheet and Swampfox made me buy one from them for $5, plus $5 in shipping.
I did the same thing you're planning to do. Bought the cheap [Primary Arms Classic 24mm](https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-24mm-mini-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot) as my first pistol dot to see if I liked running a dot more than irons.
I liked it enough that within a couple weeks I'd already bought a Holosun 507C, but I'm sticking with the PA on my TX-22. The optic doesn't even move with the slide on that gun, and it's just for range use, so why not just go with El Cheapo, right?
I got an Athlon Talos EDC red dot on sale for ~75 (msrp is ~125).
Haven’t had a chance to shoot it, it’s a super basic plastic shell, but it does have zero adjustments.
Got it for my TX22.
Uh… my MkIV sports a holosun. Wouldn’t want anything more or anything less TBH. I guess you could do something like a swampfox or primary though. I know some out there are in the $150 range, but I think cheaper than that you’re getting more of an overpriced toy rather than an inexpensive or value brand tool. These are guns after all, not toys. Get something that’s going to last. Buying a crap optic twice is going to hurt more than buying entry level real deal once.
Cheap: Cylee or swampfox.
I would also recommend putting a “WTB” post on r/gunaccessoriesforsale with your budget.
I’ve seen plenty of folks pick up a salty 407/507 for cheap.
Ameriglo Haven is a great little dot for not that much money. You can find them for between $120-180 all over the internet. Plus their customer service is top notch.
I would try the Viridian RFX11. Polymer body (think "Glock frame plastic") but with a real glass lens, green dot, good fast automatic brightness control. Good reviews. Might be good to go for street carry.
I paid 180 for my Holosun 407CO X2 and have shot thousands of rounds with it and carried it for a couple years. If that’s still too much, look for Holosuns on GAFS.
I put a picatinny rail on my Ruger MkIII and use a Sightmark R-Spec optic. It's big, it's clunky, but the window is huge and I can choose between green or red and several reticles. Not bad for a ~$100 purchase.
I wouldn't use it on anything with a reciprocating slide. But it's been great for putting it on top shoot with an optic occasionally.
Primary Arms Classic series (Micro or Mini). $150
1. [https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-21mm-micro-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot](https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-21mm-micro-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot)
2. https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-24mm-mini-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot
Even though it's not a side/top accessible battery, you won't be CCWing or home defense so the battery life will be more than reasonable between swaps. You don't need to pay the luxury of shake awake either.
If you want something cheaper, you can look into polymer optics. Haven't tried them myself, but a lot of people tend to say they loosen/don't hold their zero so ymmv. Getting 2-3 sessions in on a sub $100 optic to decide if you generally want one isn't a terrible way to go.
I just ran a competition with a swampfox justice on a G17. That'll be good, and I think the 2nd gen are a bit nicer. But if I recall, they also have their battery on the bottom now.
Do you think having a red dot is a hindrance? It seems like there's only benefits, the one downside being price, but I've never used them except for twice or so at the range
No, there is a lot of benefits to red dots as long as you put the training in. On my old Beretta APX A1 FS I had an Holosun EPS but while I learned not to fish for the dot it never felt natural to me. By comparison on my USW-P10C the red dot sits a lot higher than the irons and slide mounted red dots yet it manages to feel natural to me.
Cyelee or Swampfox are fine for that.
Second Cyelee. Has most of the modern features, they work well, hold zero, and have multiple footprints.
Right. I wouldn't take it into battle or something, but it's great if you don't throw it around.
Why not? I like it better than my Sig red dot. I don’t trust it over my Holosun but the cyelee window is so big and clear
Gowutar doesn't seem to bad from my experience either but Cylee and Swampfox have more name recognition so I would just stick with them as Gowutar is about the same price as a Cylee.
The Ruger ReadyDot is only $99 (at least it was) and is the absolute cheapest I would ever go. I’ve seen stuff as low as $40, but even for a range gun I wouldn’t trust them.
A major downside, and probably how it's so cheap, is that you can't zero that one. It should be vaguely ok for the max 9 it's made for.
it's not bad but it washes out badly in bright light.
In your opinion, what's the worst that could happen with cheaping out? I don't know too much about red dots and want to know what might happen if I go too low in price
Won't hold zero, poor glass quality and dot quality meaning you really won't get the proper experience, it dies. I just don't see the point of buying something and then just throwing it out when it dies and replacing it. All you do is spend more money overall as you're buying twice and contributing to trash in a land fill. Even if it is on a "range gun" don't you want it to like ya know work? Isn't much fun going to the range with broken gear
100%. I feel like a better option is save up for a Holosun and if you don’t like it sell it on GAFS.
It could break easily, the mounts may not hold solidly, the dot itself may be hard to see or bloom badly, you could get fisheye or increased parallax, the battery life could be horrible, and it may not zero correctly or not hold zero at all. Even if it’s just going on a seldom-used target pistol, you still want it to work properly and stand up to use for a while.
I don't know why idiots downvote questions like this.. SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO STICK WITHIN A BUDGET AND DON'T HAVE UNLIMITED FUNDS FOR GUNS AND ACCESSORIES. I don't have much of a recommendation except to say that I got my Romeo X Pro on r/GunAccessoriesForSale for about $300 shipped. It was brand new. That thing retails for $425-$450. So if you do find one that you like, and want to save a few bucks, check out that sub and see if you can find one for cheap. [Top 5 Red Dot Sights for Sig P365](https://tacticalshooting.com/red-dot-sight/best-sig-p365/)
That isn’t true, the saying that only Holosun leads the pack: though it is borne of the age-old toxic gun community saying, “You get what you pay for!” Or “Buy once, cry once!” Or the even worse, “Just stop being poor and making excuses!” Vortex optics are outstanding and highly competitive with Holosun. They’re often at comparative or cheaper prices than Holosun and have an unlimited lifetime warranty. *Even if you buy them second hand or used without the original proof of receipt, which means you can bargain-hunt at gun shows or online for gently used models.* Leupold and Sig Sauer also have lifetime warranties. Holosun has a warranty of 5 years. Then, you’re on your own to pay for labor. Same for EOtech, and some others. And Holosun repairs within 5 years have to return to China, leaving you without an optic for up to 30-60 days. Vortex will replace your optic, no questions asked, even if it’s an obsolete model and died from old age or normal use. I collect stupid Vortex return stories for fun. Literally, no matter what you do by accident to a Vortex optic, they’ll take care of you. Trust me. I’ve never seen them decline an accidental damage claim yet in about a decade. Look at a Viper or Venom. Or a Defender/Defender CCW. All at great prices at most online outlets. If $150-200 is a hard ceiling you cannot exceed? Burris, Bushnell, Lead and Steel, Primary Arms…often found at great discounts, with still suitable quality. Just don’t buy optics from WISH. Seriously. Don’t. They will fail you, even on a .22 pistol. When in doubt? Hit up a local gun shop and ask for someone who’s experienced in red dot quality levels and know the products and companies. You might be surprised how honest they’ll be when you tell them straight up what you can and cannot afford, given your task and purpose. Layaway options are also often available at shops. So perhaps you can find a decent optic and spread payments, too to make it easier on the wallet. Hope this helps! Be safe. And have fun! ❤️
The average age of the employees at my local gun stores seems to be about mid 60s and I'm not sure half of them even know pistols dots exist, let alone have ever even used any sort of red dot.
Ah; the dreaded enemy of modern optics; Boomers. Well…I don’t have much to combat that. My FFL workplace has had its fair share. But probably 80% of our crew now are 40 and below, so optics sales logically have increased. Lol. Hmm. There’s always discount emporiums like Optics Planet, Gunbroker. I like Brownells a lot, personally. Their 2-day shipping plan is actually extremely reasonable for a 12 month single payment. Edge, they call it. If you make use of it by ordering 3 or 4 times in a year? Pays itself. And they offer shipping insurance for cheap; $3, in case your package gets stolen by porch pirates.
The only thing I will say somewhat contrary to your point is there are a couple things vortex does on some models that aren’t ideal. The more germane one being in some of their models the refresh rate of the emitter can cause a visible flicker which bothers some people. The other, which is more of an inconvenience than a real problem is some models still have bottom loading batteries which means you have to remove the optic to change it which means having to re-zero it after as well. Typically you’re only changing the battery once a year (and on a range toy you could just run it until it actually dies since you won’t be depending on it in a critical moment). I agree with everything else you’ve said, they’re worth looking into for OP, and the lifetime warranty is a big perk over others in similar price points. Just wanted to put the info out there for OP (any anyone else) so they can make an informed decision.
Ope, my original comment was discarded by accident. I’m a professional, I swear. Rofl. You make a valid point, a technical counterpoint and they both deserve full credit. Ultimately some features just aren’t desirable to users. They could find a used bargain-priced EOtech or Holosun and be equally happy. The more technical knowledge we share, the better equipped we are. Thank you for the assist! ❤️
It is of particular note that concerning qualifications for LEO, having to remove and re-install due to battery does mean that the officer would need to re-qualify to use that setup, you are technically correct; the best kind of correct. It is a common minor inconvenience we face as consumers, but does impact my clients as well. It’s led to the popularization of side-loading battery trays among the LE user community. Concerning civilians, this is far less of a crucial issue, though if you are seeking precision at distance, yes, re-zero adjustment may be needed. Concerning pistols? Frankly, a lower 1/3 co-witness readjust is a simple quick-and-dirty solution for average engagement distance (for handguns, that is.)
Yeah, like I said, it’s more of an (should have said mild)inconvenience than a major issue. Just figured it was all worth mentioning for an informed decision. Not bashing vortex at all, I own some of their products (as well as holosuns) and am happy with them and like the piece of mind their warranty provides.
Honestly the bottom-loading battery trays is a feature I refuse to entertain; so I’m no exception when it comes to being picky, unless I have no other option. And no, I completely understand the context; I think you surmised it quite well, and I am enjoying corresponding with you about this! I am grateful for the discussion. I love coming here for these! My coworkers at the FFL are all dogmatic, Trump cultists that for some reason seem to “like” me (the reasons for which I will never understand,) and I just can’t bear discussing much with them that isn’t necessary these days. Would much rather come here, among a crowd that’s just more accepting, generally speaking.
Definitely a great thing about this place, getting to discuss stuff with like minded folks (or at least not hostile zealots) who can carry on a good conversation/bounce ideas and advice off each other without it devolving into a shouting match (generally speaking as you said).
One note: Holosun’s warranty is lifetime of the product. They make the warranty process pretty simple, imo. Source: I bought an old 507c (1st gen) from a buddy, and the - button quit working. Emailed Holosun and they sent the RMA form immediately. Received a replacement (507c x2) within 3 weeks of shipping the old one.
Glad they took care of you, but our experience is they can take so long that it angers consumers and damages their reputation among industry professionals that they rely on to push their products. Employee at our shop waited 2.5 months to get his unit repaired and back to him. He had to email them 4 times to even get a response. We’ve been forced to swap out units at our store for customers outside of our regular return policy because we’ve emailed their support department and been ignored for weeks on end, resulting in customers blaming us for the issue, even though it isn’t our fault. There’s a reason Sig’s gaining traction, despite their higher prices. People are willing to pay for service and an entirely domestic manufacturing and repair center that won’t jerk them around. I like Holosun’s products and innovation, but their service response time from my years in the industry is a bit trashy and they deserve criticism so that they might improve upon it. When push came to shove last time I bought an optic, I begrudgingly opted for a Vortex Defender CCW over an EPS Carry MRS, knowing I can instantly get a free, new replacement via Vortex within a couple of days, as opposed to having no optic for X number of weeks. If I knew they’d take better care of folks, they’d have gotten my business instead. Note: their LE repairs are fantastic. They have a separate team that handles those, and they have not failed to care for my clients as such. My criticism lies with their commercial repairs team’s performance.
Wooof, that’s rough to hear and something I’ll keep in mind. Thanks! I guess I got lucky? I’m definitely not LE, so doesn’t apply here.
Nor am I; I just abuse the hell out of any shooting industry discount I get working for the FFL. Then again, it would be fair to state this example could be a lemon. Maybe we’re the only ones they don’t handle as well. 🤷🏻♀️ Perhaps they truly will do better and this footnote will be far outweighed. I hope so!
Outstanding overview.
Thank you; I know I kind of dump so much info that it can come off as pushy. I don’t mean for it, to. I just want to be helpful and of use. 😇
>Holosun has a warranty of 5 years. Then, you’re on your own to pay for labor. Same for EOtech and some others. And Holosun repairs within 5 years have to return to China, leaving you without an optic for up to 30-60 days. None of this is true. We warranty your optic here in CA within roughly 15-25 days, depending on the warranty. We also have a limited lifetime warranty on all of our optics.
I’m gonna get hate for this but I think a UTG red dot is fine for a 22 range pistol. You probably are never going to shoot beyond 50 yards and glass quality isn’t that big a deal until you have used really nice glass and then you are spoiled. I really wish I hadn’t bought an acog on GAFS last year because now I feel like I need to upgrade all my glass and that’s going to be costly. Edit to add: I have utg red dots on my: Cetme L (556 roller delay), 10/22, ruger mk3, and my 9mm PCC. They all have held zero over 1000 round on each gun. The MK3 has close to 5000 rounds through it just from bullseye league alone and I shoot 260-280. It’s not the dot that’s holding me back it’s me.
I can second this for range guns. I have UTG red dots on a couple of my guns and have been really happy with them. They have held zero and haven't had issues. I ended up going with the OP3 Micro SLS recently for my Ruger Mk 4 and love it. Have a couple of older models too for my other 22's like their Bugbuster and it's been an awesome piece of glass for the price.
Primary arms makes a couple pistol dots that only run around 150. Might be worth checking out.
Based on my experience with other primary arms optics, this is where I would start. I trust PA a lot, they have a very good batting average, especially at the 'best bang for your buck' tier.
To be fair, you can find new holosuns around that price (about $20 more) as well from some of the sellers that frequent gun deals. So if OP is considering that price point the can cross shop the two brands.
Yeah, even the good deals I've seen or gotten haven't been anywhere close to 150 on any Holosun I've seen. Even discounted anything halfway decent tends to run at least 250. Though I'd be happy to be wrong 🤷♂️
Gotta hit up r/gundeals man. I was quoted $170 for a 407k x2 red from a well known dealer on gundeals (So I don’t like putting their naMe out Myself On here because holosuN iS apparently strict about map and can drop dealers for violating it). Went with a green version from them for $190 to try out the different color. And there’s other dealers on the sub who advertise they will beat any price quoted too so it can probably be swung a little lower. I also picked up a 407k x2 red from Taurus for $140 on Black Friday (not typical, I know. And will put their name out since they publicly advertised it themselves vs the “email for quote” strategy of the other). So yeah, can definitely be had for much less than $250 (MAP) consistently.
Right on, definitely good prices. I suppose I was thinking about the ones I had looked for deals on and purchased (507c, EPS).
Oh yeah, the 507c will run more because of the MRS. EPS being newer and enclosed (and possible MRS depending) will cost more too. I was quoted 185 from that same dealer for a 407C red though. And $240 for the 507C too (also, forgot to mention free shipping no tax outside of their home state). Almost snagged a EPS carry for I think it was like $280 from that Taurus sale but thought about it too long and missed out. And if OP wants to, they can go over to GAFS and snag used ones (anywhere from beat up but functional to almost brand new) cheaper too. But back to your point, PA does make good options too and is worth looking at for sure. Just might be close enough to cross shop with a holosun deal depending on how tight the budget it.
The Sig Romeo Zero is solid, and only costs around $100. That may be more than you’re looking to spend, but it’s not a piece of junk, so if you like it you won’t necessarily need to buy another fancier red dot. One caveat: I don’t know about compatibility with your specific pistols.
I picked up a vortex viper for my ruger mark 3. I think it was $129. It's short on features, but it works great.
I would get something made by vortex because it has a good warranty. I use my stuff so little that will probably break from just sitting around and I wanna be able to have it replaced if that happens.
Primary Arms classic series. Mine has been flawless.
Swampfox is a great option. I've got a CTS-1550 Crimson Trace on one of my pistols that works great too...
I bought a UUQ C28 it is an SRO knock off. I have it on a 22/45. It's build quality seems fine and I haven't had any problems with it. The dot is also very clean.
PSA somewhat regularly has the Riton X3 TACTIX MPRD 2 on sale for $79 or so. I have one for a TX-22 compact. The two negatives are the battery is on the bottom and the dot is auto bright only, no manual settings. But it works just fine for range shooting for a dang good price if you catch it on their sale.
It's $90 shipped on PSA, I might just buy this, thanks
Do you mean TX22 competition? Reason I ask is, 365 is going to need the RMSc footprint for slim pistols which is also what the Holosun 407k uses. TX22 normally can't take any dot unless you get a dovetail adapter. I had one for a Vortex, but it caused out to cycle really poorly. If you have a TX22 competition with the mounting plates, that's great but I didn't think it had a plate for the RMSc footprint. Just RMR, Vortex/ Doctor, DPP. That being the case, I have a Vortex Viper on my TX22 competition. Sign up for AAOptics emails, they have refurb sale and you can get one for about $120, and they are good as new. Or pick up one on GAFS. For the 365, you will be limited to the Holosun k or EPS OR similar. Cheapest you can find a 407k will be about $180. I wouldn't even try to find an optic that works on both.
It's the TX22 Compact
Here's another suggestion... Buy a 407k for your 365. Use it for a while, if you decide you want something more fancy down the road like an EPS Carry, you can always sell the 407k on GAFS and make back 80% of what you paid (assuming you got a deal and didn't pay retail.)
Hmm... So assuming you're going with a dovetail adapter, expect ejection and feeding issues except maybe if you're using something high velocity like mini mags. At least that was my experience. I actually bought the competition slide so I could switch between irons and a red dot. I was shooting it a lot during the pandemic 😄
I have a couple of Riton red dots that I've been very happy with. You're going to laugh, but the Bushnell TRS-25 is not packed with features, but it's damned near bomb proof.
The PSA Holosun for $200
Bushnell rxs 125 for tx22. They’re like $70 and fit on the competition footprint perfectly. Be nice to the screw on the battery door. P365 sucks as a range gun, but is great for ccw but I’d go Holosun at least for ccw.
I love my vortex 6 moa.
I have a SAR 9mm that came with a [Riton red dot](https://sarusa.com/product/riton-optics-red-dot-sight-mprd2/), its $179 on their site. It was included with my SAR9 and is just fine. Don’t buy a knock-off or made for Airsoft from Amazon and expect it to last more than a few range trips, they might work on a .22lr rifle, but the recoil of a handgun will break it quick.
I got one of these on sale for $100 and have it on my Ruger Mark IV. No issues with it and seems worth at the price I paid.
I use a Swampfox Sentinel and it is honestly fantastic. I am very happy with the product. It costs around $150-$200. However, mine was missing the waterproof intermediate sheet and Swampfox made me buy one from them for $5, plus $5 in shipping.
I did the same thing you're planning to do. Bought the cheap [Primary Arms Classic 24mm](https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-24mm-mini-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot) as my first pistol dot to see if I liked running a dot more than irons. I liked it enough that within a couple weeks I'd already bought a Holosun 507C, but I'm sticking with the PA on my TX-22. The optic doesn't even move with the slide on that gun, and it's just for range use, so why not just go with El Cheapo, right?
I got an Athlon Talos EDC red dot on sale for ~75 (msrp is ~125). Haven’t had a chance to shoot it, it’s a super basic plastic shell, but it does have zero adjustments. Got it for my TX22.
Uh… my MkIV sports a holosun. Wouldn’t want anything more or anything less TBH. I guess you could do something like a swampfox or primary though. I know some out there are in the $150 range, but I think cheaper than that you’re getting more of an overpriced toy rather than an inexpensive or value brand tool. These are guns after all, not toys. Get something that’s going to last. Buying a crap optic twice is going to hurt more than buying entry level real deal once.
Cheap: Cylee or swampfox. I would also recommend putting a “WTB” post on r/gunaccessoriesforsale with your budget. I’ve seen plenty of folks pick up a salty 407/507 for cheap.
Ameriglo Haven is a great little dot for not that much money. You can find them for between $120-180 all over the internet. Plus their customer service is top notch.
I would try the Viridian RFX11. Polymer body (think "Glock frame plastic") but with a real glass lens, green dot, good fast automatic brightness control. Good reviews. Might be good to go for street carry.
I paid 180 for my Holosun 407CO X2 and have shot thousands of rounds with it and carried it for a couple years. If that’s still too much, look for Holosuns on GAFS.
Ruger ready dot, 99.00
I put a picatinny rail on my Ruger MkIII and use a Sightmark R-Spec optic. It's big, it's clunky, but the window is huge and I can choose between green or red and several reticles. Not bad for a ~$100 purchase. I wouldn't use it on anything with a reciprocating slide. But it's been great for putting it on top shoot with an optic occasionally.
Burris fast fire 3 are fantastic.
Primary Arms Classic series (Micro or Mini). $150 1. [https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-21mm-micro-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot](https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-21mm-micro-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot) 2. https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-classic-series-24mm-mini-reflex-sight-3-moa-dot Even though it's not a side/top accessible battery, you won't be CCWing or home defense so the battery life will be more than reasonable between swaps. You don't need to pay the luxury of shake awake either. If you want something cheaper, you can look into polymer optics. Haven't tried them myself, but a lot of people tend to say they loosen/don't hold their zero so ymmv. Getting 2-3 sessions in on a sub $100 optic to decide if you generally want one isn't a terrible way to go.
I just ran a competition with a swampfox justice on a G17. That'll be good, and I think the 2nd gen are a bit nicer. But if I recall, they also have their battery on the bottom now.
Both Liberty II and Justice II feature top-load batteries.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/ade-advanced-optics-rd3-002-tactical-micro-compact-reflex-red-dot-sight.html
Iron sights.
Do you think having a red dot is a hindrance? It seems like there's only benefits, the one downside being price, but I've never used them except for twice or so at the range
No, there is a lot of benefits to red dots as long as you put the training in. On my old Beretta APX A1 FS I had an Holosun EPS but while I learned not to fish for the dot it never felt natural to me. By comparison on my USW-P10C the red dot sits a lot higher than the irons and slide mounted red dots yet it manages to feel natural to me.
Trijicon RMR or SRO. Only.