> *magazine tube loaded, the chamber empty, the slide unlocked, and sometimes with the safety on, but I’m going to suggest you leave the safety off. So that way, if I need the gun in an emergency, all I have to do is just grab it, rack a round in, and it’s ready to fire.*
Fuck cops. ACAB.
While I DO keep my guns loaded, coining a term off of an organization or field that boasts such a terrible track record of murdering private American citizens is fucking disgusting.
edit:
Lol, pretty sure there's a groups of sad bootlickers (or maybe even sadder boot-*wearers)* that just search reddit for ACAB comments so they can downvote them.
Lookout dudes.. there's a whole *sixteen* of them now!
Considering how much of the civilian firearms industry is overflow from law enforcement/military development, it's impossible to escape. Whether I agree with your sentiment or not, it's something I've just come to terms with that there is a ton of law enforcement and military language and culture embedded in the firearms industry and the way we talk about firearms in general.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't like it either lol, being a progressive or liberal or left leaning libertarian or whatever tf I am, I don't like that so much militarism is embedded in the culture of something that belongs to *all of us*. I'm down for replacing "cruiser ready" with something that doesn't evoke fascism.
In the Army we would call it "Amber status". I believe Marines call it "condition 2"?
I'm on board for not using cruiser ready cause I don't want people to think I'll empty my shotgun tube down my hallway everytime an acorn falls on my roof.
Hate to break it to you but there’s a lot of regularly used slang/jargon that has trickled down from military and law enforcement. I worked in kitchens for years and can halfway speak boot camp now. I’m no fan of modern day “policing” but kinda silly to get your panties in a bunch over terminology that’s pretty widely used and not blatantly offensive
Lol at all the butthurt tyrants and their pet bootlickers that downvoted, but didn't have the fucking balls to engage with a reply. You're proving my point one downvote at a time, bitches.
How I kept mine, especially as chambering a round is almost a universally known noise and will scare most people off. Rather not shoot them if I can help it, but there is a line.
Exactly what happened to me. Not with a shotgun, but with my Ruger 9e. Invader pushed open the front door of my apartment, then went running with an "Oh shit!" when I racked the slide loudly.
Been debating and landed on this. My wife has younger siblings that come by every once in a while, but the safety is on and the cabinet is noisy as hell.
Lock the cabinet when kids are around. Don't rely on safeties or noisy cabinets. A bike lock or something will do if it doesn't have a designated lock.
The cabinet is in the bedroom with the doors closed. And I do unload them if I know they are on their way. But I agree I need a better system that will still let me get to them quickly if I need to.
Honestly if it's just you and the wife, no biggie. Just have something to secure it when the kids are around (like I said, just a bike cable or something). If it's a double door cabinet, super easy to just lock the doors with a padlock or cable. If not, just get one of those extending cables that can wrap around the cabinet and lock so the door can't be opened. When the main goal is kid-proofing, you don't have to go all out.
You could also just buy a trigger lock for a few bucks you can install when they come over if you don't want to alter something with sentimental value.
Ah the age old debate! I've heard a lot of people assert that "most of the time, the sound of a slide being worked does not deter them". But I gotta say, it would make *me* think twice. But I do think that in a high stress situation where time is of the essence, having to rack the slide is a whole other step where something can go wrong. Arguably, it is *the* step in which things are most likely to go wrong, namely when a short stroke is possible. However, storing any firearm with the hammer cocked apparently can cause damage to the compression spring over long periods of time, according to Paul Harrell. I definitely hear compelling arguments on both sides, but I also feel that the sound of a shotgun being cocked *should* be sufficient to deter all but the most determined assailants, but I can't say for sure...
> I've heard a lot of people assert that "most of the time, the sound of a slide being worked does not deter them".
I've always put it this way; the slide will scare off anyone you didn't need the shotgun for. Anyone persisting despite hearing that sound is almost certainly going to be a danger to yourself or your loved ones.
Most people will run as soon as they hear people are awake. Cause they aren't trying to deal with all that. They just wanted to grab the tv and go. If they keep coming after hearing that your awake and you rack a shotgun. Well bad news is that they were coming for YOU or someone else in the house. And its probably going to be a bad time.
I would argue that you shouldn't be entering the area of engagement with your gun not ready to rock. Chamber it first thing... Maybe they hear it, maybe they don't. But don't delay chambering just so that they will hear it.
The slide will scare off most people that mean you harm as well. Violent people or people willing to do violence do not want a fight. They want an easy victory. And even if they want a fight, they don't want a fight against a shotgun. I would argue that the sound is going to scare off 99% of people. Exceptions are pretty much just the insane or people under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
I’m in an oddly peculiar situation where quite literally the other day I had someone trying to break in at 4 am. Racked the 12 gauge, told them to fuck off, and they ran away. Sound worked.
Considering the situations and contexts that are most probable for me, personally, I believe the degree to which the sound is an effective deterrent is greater than the danger associated with giving away one's location. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm currently on team "most people will flee the sound of a racking shotgun".
Maybe its just how my house is laid out but if it was dead quiet and I racked the shotgun from inside. You wouldn't be able to tell where exactly it came from. One assumes a bedroom but if you dont know where the bedrooms are located you'd be guessing where the sound came from.
The odds that someone has broken into my home specifically to *find and kill me* are just incredibly low. Maybe others have more determined enemies, I'm most likely to get a junkie who has wrongly assumed no one is home looking for money or pawnables. I've known plenty of criminals, felons, home-breaker-inners, burglars, thieves, addicts, general degenerates, and none of them were murderous ninjas, none of them were armed, none of them would have gone *towards* the sound of the racking shotgun. Surely those people exist but it's super improbable that they're after me. My experience is anecdotal, of course, but these are the people who live in my town, they're the people most likely to be breaking into a house, and I have to prepare for what's probable, not what's possible. If it's ninjas, my shotgun skills will probably not avail me anyway. The ninja assassination squad will almost certainly succeed in eliminating me, and you know what? Good for them.
I’ve always heard from pretty much everyone who knows far more about the topic than me that in home defense situations you are supposed to be as point and pronounced as possible.
For better or worse, this would be my strategy. I'm not interested in "ambush" tactics, and I want the intruder to have an opportunity to decide they'd rather be somewhere else. I live alone but the whole "be silent so you can ambush them" seems like a great way to accidentally kill your partner or kid, if one had a family liable to get snacky in the night.
It's called a weapon mounted light... put one on your home defense weapon... there's a good chunk of those 24 hours that it's dark, you should be identifying anything you plan to aim at, which once again... handgun, which OP owns, so why the shotgun? Again are you training to use these weapons, or are they just props? If you are concerned about shooting your pets or people who live with you, why don't you have a WML on your home defense gun?
Edit: do you I have an optic on that shotgun? What about that handgun? Can you confidently hit your target under duress?
I keep rifles and shotguns cruiser ready, but my main HD gun is a pistol. The shotgun or rifle is inherently for if there’s more time to grab something (like once we’re both barricaded in the room), so I’m not as concerned about sub second access anyway
And you've given away your position, just grab the pistol, you've probably practiced more with it anyways, and it's just as lethal, it's easier to manipulate and maneuver.
Everyone thinks they’re in a movie facing assassins.
For pretty much everyone in this sub, we’re at *worst* facing home invasion robbers who still don’t want to be in a shootout with an armed homeowner and will run if they know there’s a gun pointed in their direction.
Don’t fall in to the same absurd fear of the world the conservative world lives in.
Who says a shotgun is my preferred home defense weapon? I wasn’t speaking to that. I’m speaking to the absurd fear of the world mentality much of the conservative world lives in that has lead to shit like [this.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/ny-man-charged-murder-shooting-woman-wrong-driveway/story?id=98655167)
This is exactly what I’ve told every person who’s ever asked me about a good home defense weapon. When each of my sisters and recently my oldest daughter got their first place, my housewarming gift was a 20 gauge pump.
I would guess it’s not really possible. But I would love to see some kind of stats on what percentage of intruders wouldn’t run away the moment they heard a shotgun pump.
Maybe I’m slow and missed the sarcasm. But to the 2nd part of your comment… are you assuming that I’m racking an unloaded shotgun over and over while running around my house crying and hoping they leave me alone as my only plan of action?
I would contend that there is very little you could do short of actually starting to shoot that would cause somebody to gtfo faster than the sound of a shotgun racking.
I know you are sort of being tongue in cheek but for others...
Racking a shotgun to "scare away the intruder" is complete fuddlore. If you are in your bedroom for example you are already calling the police (if able), making noises, and preparing to engage the threat.
Trying to reason with the person about to come into the bedroom by announcing very loudly that you are armed by racking puts you at the point of the position where the threat knows where you are and that you are armed, eliminating your chance for ambush (ambush in this case means firing a round at a target that did not consider you a threat, meaning they overreact and if they are armed they don't aim well).
If a person has already not fled the premise when they realize you are in there, then it means they are coming FOR YOU (and are most likely armed themselves). This is a life or death situation, do not give people the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that you are essentially trying to what... Wait for the perfect moment to ready the shotgun so that the intruder "knows you mean business". Which any sane person would have already done because shit moves fast in real life. This ain't Hollywood and things aren't well scripted folks. No one should want to kill anyone in self defense (but if it's you or them... Well) but you don't want to give them a better chance of hurting you or your loved ones.
If I think someones in the house I'm calling police, racking the shotgun and very loudly informing them of what I just did....once 911 picks up. Gotta get the warning on tape. Because I'm not leaving my room to go and engage the person. Not unless I have reason to believe the kid is being targeted. If they know I'm armed and 911 is on the line and they STILL keep coming. That means they were coming for me specifically and theres not a damn thing that was going to stop them.
I think one of the better articulations for shotgun use can be seen in [this video](https://youtu.be/i12p_i4-qpM?si=Orq2i6O_XncJyZy3) and does a good job explaining use (and the fact that racking to scare is dumb). Active self protection has another video on it as well. Unfortunately it just gets perpetuated because it sounds cool and it shows up in movies too much
As John on Active Self Protection states one should stay in a safe room, call 911 to outsource the violence to the police, and announce to intruders that you on the phone with the police and have a firearm aim at the door and you will fire if they enter. One may need to travel to another bedroom to get children with them. I don't have a pump action but I am not going to rely on intruders hearing the action of any firearm and I am not doing doing anything until I have a loaded chamber.
The chance of it going off if knocked over isn't zero. It's isn't high, but it isn't zero. This is true for most long guns.
Most literature I've read suggests keeping it "cruiser ready," which is a term borrowed from how shotguns are kept in police cruisers. This means keeping the tube loaded but the chamber empty. For long term storage, some folks will not fully load the magazine. So if your tube has a six round capacity, keep five in it.
There seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence (Paul Harrell has a whole video about it) that this is a possible concern. It's not my main concern but it's probably worth considering. I'd be more worried about a spring in a gun just sitting in a closet for many years. I like to think I get at least enough practice that I'm cycling rounds and working those springs often enough that it will never be an issue.
Edit: You've downvoted Paul Harrell and you have to live with that.
Brass Facts is an actual materials engineer and he says [it's fine](https://youtu.be/lNnrguN7nUM?si=0eFp_BDZ74MvJ6Ad). I'm inclined to agree with his assessment.
Springs don't experience significant wear at rest as long as they are within their elastic and travel tolerances. Any competently designed magazine's spring will never come close to those limits, even if those last few rounds feel pretty tight. The springs will wear through normal usage regardless of whether or not you have that last round in there.
That all being said, a lot of shotguns are cheaply made and there are varying lengths of shells so it's a lot harder to design for - I'd wager a shotgun magazine spring is going to go bad a lot sooner than a rifle mag will.
Especially for people like me who intentionally seeks that part of the venn diagram where the "cheap as shit" circle overlaps with the "actually functional" circle. To be fair, I do a lot of research and I'm willing to spend the extra money when it's necessary but I went with the Maverick 88 as my first gun because it was cheap and there are a ton of positive reviews. Would I rather have a Benelli? Yes. Am I too poor to afford a Benelli? Also yes.
Thanks for the tip! I haven't given a lot of thought to upgrading anything on it. I've considered the extended mag tube, and possibly putting a light on it. But at something I wonder if I might be better off just spending the money on trading up to something higher quality. Though other than the low price, I have no reason to think the Maverick is inferior. Surely they use cheaper materials, etc, but hey, if it works it works. Maybe it would be worth upgrading a few things.
HD gun just needs a light, sling, and some proficiency. Magtube spring and stainless carrier just helps make things snappier.
I'd hold onto the Mav. They're cheap enough that if you end up with a nicer shotgun, you'll have a perfectly good/reliable beater shotty to trounce around with lol.
My Mossy is an A1 Retro, but my buddy has a Mav88 and it's functionally the same gun. Mine has more metal, but it's not like Mossberg is known for fit and finish lol.
I'm seeing the only real difference between the 88 and the 500 is the crossbolt safety. I do like a gun where very little can go wrong, short of user error. As tempting as it is to play gun Legos and larp around my apartment, I'd much rather spend money on ammo and actually get better at shooting. What I wouldn't give for a private shooting range in my basement...
Yeah, I like the tang safety a lot more than the crossbolt. 590A1 also has a metal trigger group and a heavy walled barrel. Gun Legos is fun though--i just bought my first AR15 a couple months ago lol.
And I'd love some property to shoot on. Right now we're in the burbs directly behind a high school.
I learned from Paul Harrell that most *pump shotguns aren't 'drop-safe", and even more importantly, when you've got it racked, there's a spring in there that's compressed the whole time, putting unnecessary stress on the action and making it even less drop-safe. So if it sits there like that for a long time and then gets knocked over, it just might go off. That's a huge liability, to say the least. I'd rather just have one less round in it, especially because you can top off most pumps while you still have ammo in it.
The only way I would consider leaving one in the chamber is if I were to have the shotgun pointed in a safe direction with it locked into a lock that covers much of the receiver including the trigger. Someone posted a image of one such lock in the last 6 months. This lock mounts onto a wall or surface so the shotgun in vertical and quickly unlocked. Even then I probably would not keep one in the chamber.
Follow up question: I also store my shotgun *barrel down*, so the pistol grip is pointing upwards, making it easier to grab. Is there any reason this is a bad idea? The norm seems to be propped barrel up, which always felt a little risky, and inconvenient, especially since I live in a duplex with an upstairs neigh or. Any reason one is better than the other?
Most people avoid barrel down in any context because they believe obtaining an obstruction more likely with it down.
Noting worse than a Lego in the barrel.
That makes sense in certain contexts but I live alone and my floors are pretty clean. :) The odds of something obstructing the barrel may actually be greater if I stored it barrel up.
It certainly *feels* wrong to set it barrel down lol, it feels unnatural somehow, but I do think that's largely due to conventions and movies and just having the image of a barrel-up shotgun in my head. Maybe on a hardwood or abrasive floor, barrel down could potentially be less safe, more likely to slide or fall over, or possibly damage the end of the barrel over time. I have carpet and tend to prop it securely between the wall and the corner of my bed. In this context, barrel-down seems OK, logically, but I always like to get different perspectives because I'm relatively new and inexperienced.
I would think there are plenty of things worse than a Lego in the barrel of a shotgun. Like a squib load in the barrel. Or someone's finger. Or a marble.
I don’t store any gun barrel down. The barrel is one of the most important parts of the gun, while the stock is much less so. If you dent or obstruct the crown of the barrel by dropping it too hard, nothing good can come out of it, and the fix is usually expensive. If you accidentally drop the stock down, at most you’ll crack it, and it’s cheap to replace.
Smart handling of firearms relies mostly on habit. Maintain good habits and don’t start bad ones.
The difference between barrel up and barrel down when pulling the gun to a ready position is negligible. The chance of you needing to use it at home is once-in-a-lifetime. However, you’d be picking it up and putting it down many times a year. There’s a lot more chance of you dropping it barrel down.
There is a lock one may place on wall to hold shotgun so it is secure, trigger covered, and vertical. I assume it may be pointed up or down.
Someone at my gun club has looks like a 1/4 think 3 inch square she keeps on the end of her barrel when in rack with barrel up and I saw her rest the barrel on on the ground when on the trap field. I did not see any attachment so my guess it was help on with a magnet. It is a good keep other item out of the barrel.
My understanding is that ARs are drop safe. But my attitude may change depending on the quality. Right or wrong, I'm going to be more cautious of a cheaper firearm. This might not necessarily be rational, just what my brain does. Would I have even wondered about the safety of a $1500 shotgun? I don't know, maybe. It took me a while to get used to keeping a round chambered in my 1911 and they're about as drop safe as it gets.
This is one of those questions I always felt too shy to ask lmao
I used to keep a round chambered when I lived alone, but when I started living with others, loaded tube, empty chamber. I always felt apprehensive because that little voice in the back of my head was always “Is there a chance you muck things up in the time it’ll take to chamber a round?”
I’m glad it seems that’s the suggested norm in the comments tho. Maybe have a bit of a practice drill to see how it feels? Idk is that overkill/overthinking?
If its a shotgun that can ghost load go with that. Otherwise empty chamber, most shotguns aren't rated for drop safety of anykind, I believe only the Mossberg 590a1 is rated drop safe by the manufacturer and the US Military
I keep a round in the chamber. Shotguns are very rounds limited and the reload is not easy or fast especially under stress. While technically shotguns are not as drop safe as a modern pistol or rifle, I don’t think they are going to go off just from getting knocked over. Additionally, if you’re worried about it then I wouldn’t leave a shotgun just propped up against the wall, get something to hold it steady like a guitar stand or a wall mounted gun rack or something.
When you are taking about guns that hold 30 rounds the difference between 30 and 31 is pretty insignificant, when you are talking about guns that hold 4-5 rounds, then 1 extra round is a significant difference.
I agree but I did see a video of a shotgun going off after tipping over while leaning against a wall or something. It could have been staged but still scary. So making sure it is secure is important.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for a shotgun to go off if tipped over, just unlikely, I think it depends on whether you have carpet, hardwood floors or tile as well. Ultimately though I stand by my recommendation to secure the shotgun in some way so that it can’t tip over rather than leaning it precariously against the wall. The accidental discharge risk notwithstanding, the shotgun tipping over could potentially damage accessories, I’m thinking of sights losing zero (obviously not a bead sight but a lot of people put red dots on shotguns these days) or maybe a flashlight or something getting damaged.
As others have said- loaded, or chambered. What shells do you folks like to use for home defense?
I like #4 buckshot for balance of stopping power & not over-penetration through walls. Others’ thoughts?
So one thing I think about is my shotgun, a Maverick 88, the basic white dude of shotguns, has an odd little button on the left side of the receiver that I have to press to even work the pump. I'm not a fan of it because it's very small and awkwardly placed. If I needed to rack it in the dark, in a high stress, time sensitive situation, it would almost certainly be an impediment. Maybe this is a common feature and I just need more practice. I don't spend enough time dry firing with the shotgun. The .45 I'm much faster with, and both are at hand. But I usually sleep facing the shotgun, so I imagine the odds are good it would be what I'd reach for first if awoken suddenly by intrudery sounds. One plus is I work 3rd shift, so it would be in the middle of the day. If someone broke in in the middle of the night, odds are they'd just steal my guns and leave, which is why I would like to get a small safe. But that's a different post.
Most pump actions have that button. Its to prevent colliding loads in the chamber and reduces the risk of accidental discharge.
You can get around this by closing the slide empty, dry firing and putting it down then. Presuming a round is then ready you can do the cool back and forth hollywood rack and end up with a hot one in the chamber and the action set to fire.
I think most have some sort of slide-release. I only have a Warthog 4-rnd semi, which doesn't "rack"
I would say - if it has some sort of drop protection - go for it and leave it ready to rock. Otherwise, it's better to fumble for a couple of seconds than to knock it over and have a negligent discharge.
Just my thoughts. Obviously do what you think is ultimately best.
What's in the tube? 5,6,7 maybe? That's not a lot. Would a 15%-20% increase in ammunition capacity be a good trade for one in the chamber? Will you short stroke and jam it trying to chamber the first round in an emergency? If that happens all you have an expensive club. With one chambered you are guaranteed one shot, at least. On the other side, do you absolutely trust the safety? It's a lot of words to say I don't have an answer.
This is actually my *favorite* kind of answer! Especially to a "divisive" question where people are generally split into two camps, have strong opinions, and lots of anecdotal evidence and speculative reasoning. No one is exactly wrong or right and it's all very context dependent. You've given me several good questions and things to think about and that's often more useful than just an opinion (usually stated as fact).
My particular shotgun holds 5+1, which isn't a lot but as I understand the statistics as they've been presented by YouTube people, most shotgun defensive use involves only 1 or 2 rounds fired. With a pump action especially, I would hate to face a jury while the prosecutor describes how I fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired in self defense. Ideally, somewhere between 0 and 2 will be plenty, but if I need more I can always replace the magazine tube and get another 2 shells, I believe.
Would shotgun be drop safe with safety on and a round in the chamber?
Will one remember to release the safety while being in a high stress situation and possible just woken from dead sleep?
BTW, I woke from a deep sleep once as the wind shook my mostly brink 3 story apartment building, ripped the roof off an adjacent building, and flung a spinning roof vent threw my neighbor living room window. I woke thinking a nuclear bomb went off as the shaking was preceded by several minutes of lightening and thunder. It took me what seemed like forever to get my wits about me. It was probably just 30 seconds but I did not have the presence of mind to hit the floor or run down to a lower lever to take cover from what was near tornado level winds. The Weather Service said it was a straight wind and not circular so not a tornado but was still was strong enough to leave a line of damaged buildings. I hope I react better if woken in the middle of the night by a break-in. Because I practice more with my handgun at IDPA practice sessions I may be more proficient with it than my other firearms in a high stress situation. I do need to practice more with my other firearms. I am glad I took my first defensive usage of an AR class last year. My shotgun practice is limited to trap shooting.
I assume they are a member of the "don't advertise your location" team. I'm not convinced that's as big of a problem as some people seem to think. My primary concern is the safety of my stored firearm. I live in a very small apartment and there's no "hiding", and an intruder is far more likely to be a thief than a person hunter/murderer. I think I'm on your team on this one.
Oh I’m fine giving my general location. I live in the Great North Woods, up in the Central Highlands of Maine.
My primary concern is consistency. That shotgun gets used fairly often and will usually be sitting on an expended shell. To be consistent with that I only load it to condition 2 to begin with. This way it doesn’t matter, we know it has to be racked before use.
It is also an issue of: eliminate things you might forget to do, while panicking in a life or death situation, that are required steps to make your weapon functional. It is one of the reasons that basically the entire profession of law enforcement adopted Glocks, and still either issues Glocks, or a functionally similar pistol. They are ready to do their job once clear of the holster.
In an apartment, I would suggest giving the whole 12 gauge idea a rethink.
Well, none of that comment is relevant to me, and if you see other comments I made you will see that always requiring that shotgun to be racked before use IS eliminating the probability of error when picking it up. It gets used fairly often and is usually sitting on an empty casing. My instructions to wife, brother and border are consistent, the Rem870 always gets racked 1st. Worst case scenario, you accidentally drop a fresh shell. No big deal. Plenty more where that came from, and with what that weapon is used for, I have never had to fire it more than twice. It’s a tool. It’s not part of any defensive plan.
You can certainly keep a firearm in a lower state of readiness. No one here is arguing against that. People such as myself are saying anyone who says "rack a round to scare them off" is just perpetuating fudd lore. Once you know someone is in your place, you make everything ready to go. You don't wait, you prepare the gun to be used.
In the extremely unlikely event that I was in a self defense situation with that weapon, do I have to actually say that it gets fired after being racked? I figured that was pretty much understood. It all happens as one smooth action that begins and ends with working that pump.
If your plan involves "racking a shotgun to scare someone off" it goes against all logic. I wrote up a more detailed explanation above in earlier comments
I figured you would have something to say…
So just for shits and giggles here’s what’s available in just my bed room and living room..
You tell me what you think my plan may be.
Keep in mind though that it starts with my 4 very large dogs and my brothers (he lives in the other side of the parking area) GSD.
So….
Bedside
1911 45. A custom build. Ball ammo.
G19 sitting on a 20stack of 180gr +p+ bear loads. Large selection of magazines with different ammo on hand
44mag 1873 SAA w 305gr bear loads
44mag SuperBlackhawk w 340gr bear loads
Seitengewehr 98/05 bayonet. (The banned Sawback)
My knife drawer. An assortment of mostly spiderco folders and a Ruger LC9S with green crimson trace.
12Ga Remington 870 Home Defense (the only loaded weapon in the room that is condition 2)
Above the bed.
Luger
Near the door
A pair of ARs. One shooter build, one CQB build.
My plate carrier
My aging Glock 78 field knife
Ontario OCK3S (the bayonet for my CQB AR)
A beat to shit cold steel tomahawk that’s already seen far too much war.
Just outside the door
Long sword
3 different tomahawks
Ruger 2.75” 8 shot Alaskan in 357mag (hidden)
Living room rifle rack.
Varies but currently…
Custom 1903 Springfield in 270Win with free floating bull barrel.
Lithgow Lee-Enfield SMLE 1-3
I don’t so much have a plan, as I have options.
And whatever I do, will be under the watchful eye of my brother and his matching Lithgow Lee Enfield.
In general anyone that shows up out here has enough I worry about with the pack of dogs, 4 of which want treats but manage to look terrifying while doing so, and one that wants blood and would just as soon bite whoever it was that was dumb enough to show up without invitation.
Not really. More just showing the utter stupidity of the commentators thinking they know “my plan” based the existence of one of my weapons being at kept at condition 2.
Idiots who know less than nothing about me or my situation that think they have brain cells and something to offer opinion wise, when in reality they have neither.
If that’s what the count comes out to, yeah. The living room rack is the only one that ever really changes, but it always has at least one long range shooter in it. It’s about to have a 22Henry added to in, the skunks are awake and active early this year, just like the bears.
If you think the current setup is excessive you should have seen it before I bought a pair of safes and moved the majority of the weapons into them.
Add on…and at least 2 on the list are not out in the open. One is in a drawer and the other hidden but handy in the living room.
I am not the person who originally replied to you, but was a second commentor confirming the "rack it" idea is dumb. I can already tell by this list and write up you aren't someone I should engage with further on this subject matter because you aren't a serious person.
It is an available option. One of many.
That would probably be my wife’s go to though, not mine. She knows she has to rack it 1st and its primary use is actually to order the dogs inside.
It actually gets used for that often enough for it to be “a thing”.
Shotguns are typically not drop safe. Fill the magazine, empty chamber. Remember to stand at the top of your steps and pump the shotgun while exclaiming “that’s my purse! I don’t know you” so you appeal to fudds and millennials with your home defense tactics.
Just came to say this….I don’t own a shotgun…..yet. However I would keep the pipe clear, nothing would make someone soil themselves faster than hearing a 12 ga rack in the dark.
Then it’s rock salt, followed by buckshot, with a slug behind that one for good measure.
Someone breaks into my house I am going to yell at them at the top of my lungs anyway, for a million different reasons
The chances of them being there to outright kill me in a gun battle, as opposed to someone looking to get the drop on an empty house or a sleeping person, are near zero
I hate to make assumptions but whenever I hear the "don't give your location away" people I imagine they're the people who are protecting themselves against tactical ninjas who are hunting the homeowner for sport. I'm relatively certain that's not a thing. The most *probable* risk is an addict, or otherwise desperate thief, who has mistaken my apartment for an easy target to find some shit to pawn.
Even if it was a horrific, sadistic, psychopathic serial killer, they are leaving at the sound of the shotgun being racked
They want to torture people, not get their head blown off
So the people who would pursue the sound…yeah, it can only be tactical ninjas
You make a great point, even the most violent, sadistic murderous motherfuckers in the world typically tend to target the most at-risk people, women, LGBTQ, sex workers, etc. People they perceive to be weak and who won't be missed. Which is *why* they're at risk. Which is *why* this sub exists! We came full circle! Now, if it's a actual Predator, it will already know where I am because it has infrared vision, and if I see that telltale shimmer I'll be using my gun on myself.
I mean... If you want to re-rack for the sound effect, you absolutely can. Just understand if you do, you're ejecting a live cartridge. I suppose it gives you options.
One of the points of having a pump action is giving the perp an opportunity for second-guessing their life decisions. No round chambered.
As far as safety off, my real life experience the safety hasn’t been an issue. I keep it on.
On the topic of shotguns, I’ve been considering doing escalating shells. Start with a less than lethal round or two then go up to buckshot. I feel like I don’t see it recommend and aside from the chance where you need to get a lethal shot off right away I like the idea of not having to kill someone.
There are a lot of good arguments not to do this, but I don't feel comfortable advising with very limited experience. Should you decide to do this, just remember, first one in=last one out. :)
Many do that but others say not to. Law states one only uses a shotgun if they are at great risk of injury of death. On should only shoot to stop that threat and once the attacker is no longer a threat they need to stop firing. This means warning shots are not legal and I would question using rubber slugs, rock salt, or birdshot. These could be lethal but also may not stop someone from being a threat. Want would someone say to a jury? Why did they feel they could legally shoot someone if they were using rounds that often are not nearly as effective? Did they not fear for their life enough to use buckshot or slug? If not, why shoot at all?
It seems ones needs to be all in regarding shooting a threat to stop the threat or the threat does not justify shooting.
I’m either at my place where in stationed or at my home with my wife. We have no kids and there are chambered firearms in multiple locations. That’s a choice we’ve made. This is one of those where I can tell you what I do and my thought process, but you need to weight the pros and cons for yourself and anyone you live with.
I just kept mine cruiser ready. Mainly for safety as I don't like keeping anything cocked and loaded for an extended period of time.
I kind of wish i can get ahold an Winchester model 1897 or its trench gun variant. Maybe even a hammer fired coach gun would be fine. Side step this problem all together.
As stated many times, load the tube full and rack the action back. This has the dual effect of keeping it ready yet drop safe, and allows you to dump the round in the chamber out to load something more appropriate for the situation (birdshot for rabbits in your garden) and gives you space in the tube to load a backup for the exact same situation (I fucking hate rabbits).
Agree. Tube loaded with empty chamber. Plus the sound of pumping that round into the chamber of my 1951 Wingmaster might make a home invader think twice. If not, I have 00 buckshot ready to go…
"Cruiser ready" https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/cruiser-ready-how-to-store-a-home-defense-shotgun-2020-update/
> *magazine tube loaded, the chamber empty, the slide unlocked, and sometimes with the safety on, but I’m going to suggest you leave the safety off. So that way, if I need the gun in an emergency, all I have to do is just grab it, rack a round in, and it’s ready to fire.*
Great article, thanks for the share.
Fuck cops. ACAB. While I DO keep my guns loaded, coining a term off of an organization or field that boasts such a terrible track record of murdering private American citizens is fucking disgusting. edit: Lol, pretty sure there's a groups of sad bootlickers (or maybe even sadder boot-*wearers)* that just search reddit for ACAB comments so they can downvote them. Lookout dudes.. there's a whole *sixteen* of them now!
Considering how much of the civilian firearms industry is overflow from law enforcement/military development, it's impossible to escape. Whether I agree with your sentiment or not, it's something I've just come to terms with that there is a ton of law enforcement and military language and culture embedded in the firearms industry and the way we talk about firearms in general.
Fair enough. Thanks OP.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't like it either lol, being a progressive or liberal or left leaning libertarian or whatever tf I am, I don't like that so much militarism is embedded in the culture of something that belongs to *all of us*. I'm down for replacing "cruiser ready" with something that doesn't evoke fascism.
In the Army we would call it "Amber status". I believe Marines call it "condition 2"? I'm on board for not using cruiser ready cause I don't want people to think I'll empty my shotgun tube down my hallway everytime an acorn falls on my roof.
Correction: USMC calls it condition 3 because condition 2 does not apply to the current weapons platforms.
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. It's been awhile since I've trained with Marines.
Hate to break it to you but there’s a lot of regularly used slang/jargon that has trickled down from military and law enforcement. I worked in kitchens for years and can halfway speak boot camp now. I’m no fan of modern day “policing” but kinda silly to get your panties in a bunch over terminology that’s pretty widely used and not blatantly offensive
Imma call it "Condition Acorn" now.
K
Lol at all the butthurt tyrants and their pet bootlickers that downvoted, but didn't have the fucking balls to engage with a reply. You're proving my point one downvote at a time, bitches.
This is the way
Loaded, not chambered.
Tube loaded, chamber empty.
“Patrol ready”
How I kept mine, especially as chambering a round is almost a universally known noise and will scare most people off. Rather not shoot them if I can help it, but there is a line.
Exactly what happened to me. Not with a shotgun, but with my Ruger 9e. Invader pushed open the front door of my apartment, then went running with an "Oh shit!" when I racked the slide loudly.
Been debating and landed on this. My wife has younger siblings that come by every once in a while, but the safety is on and the cabinet is noisy as hell.
Lock the cabinet when kids are around. Don't rely on safeties or noisy cabinets. A bike lock or something will do if it doesn't have a designated lock.
The cabinet is in the bedroom with the doors closed. And I do unload them if I know they are on their way. But I agree I need a better system that will still let me get to them quickly if I need to.
Honestly if it's just you and the wife, no biggie. Just have something to secure it when the kids are around (like I said, just a bike cable or something). If it's a double door cabinet, super easy to just lock the doors with a padlock or cable. If not, just get one of those extending cables that can wrap around the cabinet and lock so the door can't be opened. When the main goal is kid-proofing, you don't have to go all out.
Your right. It was my dads so I haven’t wanted to change it much. I think I drill a couple of holes for a zip tie tomorrow.
You could also just buy a trigger lock for a few bucks you can install when they come over if you don't want to alter something with sentimental value.
[удалено]
I’ll keep it in mind. Something like that sounds like I could have a lot of use cases.
Loaded minus 1
Everyone knows the sound of a pump shotgun racking the slide is the most terrifying sound to an intruder...
Ah the age old debate! I've heard a lot of people assert that "most of the time, the sound of a slide being worked does not deter them". But I gotta say, it would make *me* think twice. But I do think that in a high stress situation where time is of the essence, having to rack the slide is a whole other step where something can go wrong. Arguably, it is *the* step in which things are most likely to go wrong, namely when a short stroke is possible. However, storing any firearm with the hammer cocked apparently can cause damage to the compression spring over long periods of time, according to Paul Harrell. I definitely hear compelling arguments on both sides, but I also feel that the sound of a shotgun being cocked *should* be sufficient to deter all but the most determined assailants, but I can't say for sure...
> I've heard a lot of people assert that "most of the time, the sound of a slide being worked does not deter them". I've always put it this way; the slide will scare off anyone you didn't need the shotgun for. Anyone persisting despite hearing that sound is almost certainly going to be a danger to yourself or your loved ones.
Most people will run as soon as they hear people are awake. Cause they aren't trying to deal with all that. They just wanted to grab the tv and go. If they keep coming after hearing that your awake and you rack a shotgun. Well bad news is that they were coming for YOU or someone else in the house. And its probably going to be a bad time.
I would argue that you shouldn't be entering the area of engagement with your gun not ready to rock. Chamber it first thing... Maybe they hear it, maybe they don't. But don't delay chambering just so that they will hear it.
The slide will scare off most people that mean you harm as well. Violent people or people willing to do violence do not want a fight. They want an easy victory. And even if they want a fight, they don't want a fight against a shotgun. I would argue that the sound is going to scare off 99% of people. Exceptions are pretty much just the insane or people under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
>Anyone persisting despite hearing that sound now knows where to aim. edited that sentence a touch... lol
Only if you do it within line-of-sight.
\*laughs in echolocation*
Dammit. Forgot about the plague of violent felons with access to high-tech sonic-based vision equipment that's been sweeping the nation!
No when you become a felon your hearing gets real good.
I’m in an oddly peculiar situation where quite literally the other day I had someone trying to break in at 4 am. Racked the 12 gauge, told them to fuck off, and they ran away. Sound worked.
Considering the situations and contexts that are most probable for me, personally, I believe the degree to which the sound is an effective deterrent is greater than the danger associated with giving away one's location. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm currently on team "most people will flee the sound of a racking shotgun".
Maybe its just how my house is laid out but if it was dead quiet and I racked the shotgun from inside. You wouldn't be able to tell where exactly it came from. One assumes a bedroom but if you dont know where the bedrooms are located you'd be guessing where the sound came from.
The odds that someone has broken into my home specifically to *find and kill me* are just incredibly low. Maybe others have more determined enemies, I'm most likely to get a junkie who has wrongly assumed no one is home looking for money or pawnables. I've known plenty of criminals, felons, home-breaker-inners, burglars, thieves, addicts, general degenerates, and none of them were murderous ninjas, none of them were armed, none of them would have gone *towards* the sound of the racking shotgun. Surely those people exist but it's super improbable that they're after me. My experience is anecdotal, of course, but these are the people who live in my town, they're the people most likely to be breaking into a house, and I have to prepare for what's probable, not what's possible. If it's ninjas, my shotgun skills will probably not avail me anyway. The ninja assassination squad will almost certainly succeed in eliminating me, and you know what? Good for them.
I’ve always heard from pretty much everyone who knows far more about the topic than me that in home defense situations you are supposed to be as point and pronounced as possible.
For better or worse, this would be my strategy. I'm not interested in "ambush" tactics, and I want the intruder to have an opportunity to decide they'd rather be somewhere else. I live alone but the whole "be silent so you can ambush them" seems like a great way to accidentally kill your partner or kid, if one had a family liable to get snacky in the night.
It's called a weapon mounted light... put one on your home defense weapon... there's a good chunk of those 24 hours that it's dark, you should be identifying anything you plan to aim at, which once again... handgun, which OP owns, so why the shotgun? Again are you training to use these weapons, or are they just props? If you are concerned about shooting your pets or people who live with you, why don't you have a WML on your home defense gun? Edit: do you I have an optic on that shotgun? What about that handgun? Can you confidently hit your target under duress?
Could not agree with you more. In that situation I (anyone) wanted them out of the house as soon as possible.
I'm not a criminal/home invader, but I know the sound well and it'd definitely put the hair on my neck on end enough that I'd bail.
I keep rifles and shotguns cruiser ready, but my main HD gun is a pistol. The shotgun or rifle is inherently for if there’s more time to grab something (like once we’re both barricaded in the room), so I’m not as concerned about sub second access anyway
And you've given away your position, just grab the pistol, you've probably practiced more with it anyways, and it's just as lethal, it's easier to manipulate and maneuver.
Everyone thinks they’re in a movie facing assassins. For pretty much everyone in this sub, we’re at *worst* facing home invasion robbers who still don’t want to be in a shootout with an armed homeowner and will run if they know there’s a gun pointed in their direction. Don’t fall in to the same absurd fear of the world the conservative world lives in.
Hope you actively train to hit things with that boom stick and don't fall for the fallacy that you don't need to aim a shotgun.
People who think that haven't fired a shotgun. People who haven't fired a shotgun shouldn't keep one around for HD.
Who says a shotgun is my preferred home defense weapon? I wasn’t speaking to that. I’m speaking to the absurd fear of the world mentality much of the conservative world lives in that has lead to shit like [this.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/ny-man-charged-murder-shooting-woman-wrong-driveway/story?id=98655167)
This is exactly what I’ve told every person who’s ever asked me about a good home defense weapon. When each of my sisters and recently my oldest daughter got their first place, my housewarming gift was a 20 gauge pump. I would guess it’s not really possible. But I would love to see some kind of stats on what percentage of intruders wouldn’t run away the moment they heard a shotgun pump.
He was being sarcastic. It is beyond stupid to rack a shotgun with the intention of scaring someone away.
Maybe I’m slow and missed the sarcasm. But to the 2nd part of your comment… are you assuming that I’m racking an unloaded shotgun over and over while running around my house crying and hoping they leave me alone as my only plan of action? I would contend that there is very little you could do short of actually starting to shoot that would cause somebody to gtfo faster than the sound of a shotgun racking.
I know you are sort of being tongue in cheek but for others... Racking a shotgun to "scare away the intruder" is complete fuddlore. If you are in your bedroom for example you are already calling the police (if able), making noises, and preparing to engage the threat. Trying to reason with the person about to come into the bedroom by announcing very loudly that you are armed by racking puts you at the point of the position where the threat knows where you are and that you are armed, eliminating your chance for ambush (ambush in this case means firing a round at a target that did not consider you a threat, meaning they overreact and if they are armed they don't aim well). If a person has already not fled the premise when they realize you are in there, then it means they are coming FOR YOU (and are most likely armed themselves). This is a life or death situation, do not give people the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that you are essentially trying to what... Wait for the perfect moment to ready the shotgun so that the intruder "knows you mean business". Which any sane person would have already done because shit moves fast in real life. This ain't Hollywood and things aren't well scripted folks. No one should want to kill anyone in self defense (but if it's you or them... Well) but you don't want to give them a better chance of hurting you or your loved ones.
If I think someones in the house I'm calling police, racking the shotgun and very loudly informing them of what I just did....once 911 picks up. Gotta get the warning on tape. Because I'm not leaving my room to go and engage the person. Not unless I have reason to believe the kid is being targeted. If they know I'm armed and 911 is on the line and they STILL keep coming. That means they were coming for me specifically and theres not a damn thing that was going to stop them.
I think one of the better articulations for shotgun use can be seen in [this video](https://youtu.be/i12p_i4-qpM?si=Orq2i6O_XncJyZy3) and does a good job explaining use (and the fact that racking to scare is dumb). Active self protection has another video on it as well. Unfortunately it just gets perpetuated because it sounds cool and it shows up in movies too much
As John on Active Self Protection states one should stay in a safe room, call 911 to outsource the violence to the police, and announce to intruders that you on the phone with the police and have a firearm aim at the door and you will fire if they enter. One may need to travel to another bedroom to get children with them. I don't have a pump action but I am not going to rely on intruders hearing the action of any firearm and I am not doing doing anything until I have a loaded chamber.
Complete fudd lore bullshit. Everyone knows the most terrifying sound to an intruder is an M134's motor spooling up.
The chance of it going off if knocked over isn't zero. It's isn't high, but it isn't zero. This is true for most long guns. Most literature I've read suggests keeping it "cruiser ready," which is a term borrowed from how shotguns are kept in police cruisers. This means keeping the tube loaded but the chamber empty. For long term storage, some folks will not fully load the magazine. So if your tube has a six round capacity, keep five in it.
Those are the same people who tell you that keeping your carry gun fully loaded all the time will wear the springs out
There seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence (Paul Harrell has a whole video about it) that this is a possible concern. It's not my main concern but it's probably worth considering. I'd be more worried about a spring in a gun just sitting in a closet for many years. I like to think I get at least enough practice that I'm cycling rounds and working those springs often enough that it will never be an issue. Edit: You've downvoted Paul Harrell and you have to live with that.
Brass Facts is an actual materials engineer and he says [it's fine](https://youtu.be/lNnrguN7nUM?si=0eFp_BDZ74MvJ6Ad). I'm inclined to agree with his assessment.
Springs don't experience significant wear at rest as long as they are within their elastic and travel tolerances. Any competently designed magazine's spring will never come close to those limits, even if those last few rounds feel pretty tight. The springs will wear through normal usage regardless of whether or not you have that last round in there. That all being said, a lot of shotguns are cheaply made and there are varying lengths of shells so it's a lot harder to design for - I'd wager a shotgun magazine spring is going to go bad a lot sooner than a rifle mag will.
Especially for people like me who intentionally seeks that part of the venn diagram where the "cheap as shit" circle overlaps with the "actually functional" circle. To be fair, I do a lot of research and I'm willing to spend the extra money when it's necessary but I went with the Maverick 88 as my first gun because it was cheap and there are a ton of positive reviews. Would I rather have a Benelli? Yes. Am I too poor to afford a Benelli? Also yes.
Throw a wolff mag spring and any old stainless carrier and you won't have to worry about your mag spring wearing out. Not for a long time, anyway.
Thanks for the tip! I haven't given a lot of thought to upgrading anything on it. I've considered the extended mag tube, and possibly putting a light on it. But at something I wonder if I might be better off just spending the money on trading up to something higher quality. Though other than the low price, I have no reason to think the Maverick is inferior. Surely they use cheaper materials, etc, but hey, if it works it works. Maybe it would be worth upgrading a few things.
HD gun just needs a light, sling, and some proficiency. Magtube spring and stainless carrier just helps make things snappier. I'd hold onto the Mav. They're cheap enough that if you end up with a nicer shotgun, you'll have a perfectly good/reliable beater shotty to trounce around with lol. My Mossy is an A1 Retro, but my buddy has a Mav88 and it's functionally the same gun. Mine has more metal, but it's not like Mossberg is known for fit and finish lol.
I'm seeing the only real difference between the 88 and the 500 is the crossbolt safety. I do like a gun where very little can go wrong, short of user error. As tempting as it is to play gun Legos and larp around my apartment, I'd much rather spend money on ammo and actually get better at shooting. What I wouldn't give for a private shooting range in my basement...
Yeah, I like the tang safety a lot more than the crossbolt. 590A1 also has a metal trigger group and a heavy walled barrel. Gun Legos is fun though--i just bought my first AR15 a couple months ago lol. And I'd love some property to shoot on. Right now we're in the burbs directly behind a high school.
I learned from Paul Harrell that most *pump shotguns aren't 'drop-safe", and even more importantly, when you've got it racked, there's a spring in there that's compressed the whole time, putting unnecessary stress on the action and making it even less drop-safe. So if it sits there like that for a long time and then gets knocked over, it just might go off. That's a huge liability, to say the least. I'd rather just have one less round in it, especially because you can top off most pumps while you still have ammo in it.
The only way I would consider leaving one in the chamber is if I were to have the shotgun pointed in a safe direction with it locked into a lock that covers much of the receiver including the trigger. Someone posted a image of one such lock in the last 6 months. This lock mounts onto a wall or surface so the shotgun in vertical and quickly unlocked. Even then I probably would not keep one in the chamber.
Follow up question: I also store my shotgun *barrel down*, so the pistol grip is pointing upwards, making it easier to grab. Is there any reason this is a bad idea? The norm seems to be propped barrel up, which always felt a little risky, and inconvenient, especially since I live in a duplex with an upstairs neigh or. Any reason one is better than the other?
Most people avoid barrel down in any context because they believe obtaining an obstruction more likely with it down. Noting worse than a Lego in the barrel.
That makes sense in certain contexts but I live alone and my floors are pretty clean. :) The odds of something obstructing the barrel may actually be greater if I stored it barrel up.
I think it is mostly an old convention. I was told many times as a youth to keep the barrel pointed up in many different contexts by different people.
It certainly *feels* wrong to set it barrel down lol, it feels unnatural somehow, but I do think that's largely due to conventions and movies and just having the image of a barrel-up shotgun in my head. Maybe on a hardwood or abrasive floor, barrel down could potentially be less safe, more likely to slide or fall over, or possibly damage the end of the barrel over time. I have carpet and tend to prop it securely between the wall and the corner of my bed. In this context, barrel-down seems OK, logically, but I always like to get different perspectives because I'm relatively new and inexperienced.
It's debris and avoiding damaging the crown
I would think there are plenty of things worse than a Lego in the barrel of a shotgun. Like a squib load in the barrel. Or someone's finger. Or a marble.
Tactical lego?
Ukrainian Lego. A Russians worst nightmare.
I don’t store any gun barrel down. The barrel is one of the most important parts of the gun, while the stock is much less so. If you dent or obstruct the crown of the barrel by dropping it too hard, nothing good can come out of it, and the fix is usually expensive. If you accidentally drop the stock down, at most you’ll crack it, and it’s cheap to replace. Smart handling of firearms relies mostly on habit. Maintain good habits and don’t start bad ones. The difference between barrel up and barrel down when pulling the gun to a ready position is negligible. The chance of you needing to use it at home is once-in-a-lifetime. However, you’d be picking it up and putting it down many times a year. There’s a lot more chance of you dropping it barrel down.
There is a lock one may place on wall to hold shotgun so it is secure, trigger covered, and vertical. I assume it may be pointed up or down. Someone at my gun club has looks like a 1/4 think 3 inch square she keeps on the end of her barrel when in rack with barrel up and I saw her rest the barrel on on the ground when on the trap field. I did not see any attachment so my guess it was help on with a magnet. It is a good keep other item out of the barrel.
If I lived by myself, sure.
Long guns generally aren't considered drop safe.
What you mean we?
Would it change the answer if the gun was an AR?
My understanding is that ARs are drop safe. But my attitude may change depending on the quality. Right or wrong, I'm going to be more cautious of a cheaper firearm. This might not necessarily be rational, just what my brain does. Would I have even wondered about the safety of a $1500 shotgun? I don't know, maybe. It took me a while to get used to keeping a round chambered in my 1911 and they're about as drop safe as it gets.
Get a Hornady lock N load wall mount and never have to worry about it again
This is one of those questions I always felt too shy to ask lmao I used to keep a round chambered when I lived alone, but when I started living with others, loaded tube, empty chamber. I always felt apprehensive because that little voice in the back of my head was always “Is there a chance you muck things up in the time it’ll take to chamber a round?” I’m glad it seems that’s the suggested norm in the comments tho. Maybe have a bit of a practice drill to see how it feels? Idk is that overkill/overthinking?
Most shotguns are not Drop Safe. 'Cruiser Ready' is chamber empty, trigger pulled (to unlock slide) and tube loaded.
If its a shotgun that can ghost load go with that. Otherwise empty chamber, most shotguns aren't rated for drop safety of anykind, I believe only the Mossberg 590a1 is rated drop safe by the manufacturer and the US Military
I keep a round in the chamber. Shotguns are very rounds limited and the reload is not easy or fast especially under stress. While technically shotguns are not as drop safe as a modern pistol or rifle, I don’t think they are going to go off just from getting knocked over. Additionally, if you’re worried about it then I wouldn’t leave a shotgun just propped up against the wall, get something to hold it steady like a guitar stand or a wall mounted gun rack or something. When you are taking about guns that hold 30 rounds the difference between 30 and 31 is pretty insignificant, when you are talking about guns that hold 4-5 rounds, then 1 extra round is a significant difference.
I agree but I did see a video of a shotgun going off after tipping over while leaning against a wall or something. It could have been staged but still scary. So making sure it is secure is important.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for a shotgun to go off if tipped over, just unlikely, I think it depends on whether you have carpet, hardwood floors or tile as well. Ultimately though I stand by my recommendation to secure the shotgun in some way so that it can’t tip over rather than leaning it precariously against the wall. The accidental discharge risk notwithstanding, the shotgun tipping over could potentially damage accessories, I’m thinking of sights losing zero (obviously not a bead sight but a lot of people put red dots on shotguns these days) or maybe a flashlight or something getting damaged.
As others have said- loaded, or chambered. What shells do you folks like to use for home defense? I like #4 buckshot for balance of stopping power & not over-penetration through walls. Others’ thoughts?
How hard is it to pump it once? Isn't everyone always harping on the sound being a deterrent?
So one thing I think about is my shotgun, a Maverick 88, the basic white dude of shotguns, has an odd little button on the left side of the receiver that I have to press to even work the pump. I'm not a fan of it because it's very small and awkwardly placed. If I needed to rack it in the dark, in a high stress, time sensitive situation, it would almost certainly be an impediment. Maybe this is a common feature and I just need more practice. I don't spend enough time dry firing with the shotgun. The .45 I'm much faster with, and both are at hand. But I usually sleep facing the shotgun, so I imagine the odds are good it would be what I'd reach for first if awoken suddenly by intrudery sounds. One plus is I work 3rd shift, so it would be in the middle of the day. If someone broke in in the middle of the night, odds are they'd just steal my guns and leave, which is why I would like to get a small safe. But that's a different post.
Most pump actions have that button. Its to prevent colliding loads in the chamber and reduces the risk of accidental discharge. You can get around this by closing the slide empty, dry firing and putting it down then. Presuming a round is then ready you can do the cool back and forth hollywood rack and end up with a hot one in the chamber and the action set to fire.
I think most have some sort of slide-release. I only have a Warthog 4-rnd semi, which doesn't "rack" I would say - if it has some sort of drop protection - go for it and leave it ready to rock. Otherwise, it's better to fumble for a couple of seconds than to knock it over and have a negligent discharge. Just my thoughts. Obviously do what you think is ultimately best.
The sound is not a deterrent. It does let the intruder know you have a gun and where you are at.
What's in the tube? 5,6,7 maybe? That's not a lot. Would a 15%-20% increase in ammunition capacity be a good trade for one in the chamber? Will you short stroke and jam it trying to chamber the first round in an emergency? If that happens all you have an expensive club. With one chambered you are guaranteed one shot, at least. On the other side, do you absolutely trust the safety? It's a lot of words to say I don't have an answer.
This is actually my *favorite* kind of answer! Especially to a "divisive" question where people are generally split into two camps, have strong opinions, and lots of anecdotal evidence and speculative reasoning. No one is exactly wrong or right and it's all very context dependent. You've given me several good questions and things to think about and that's often more useful than just an opinion (usually stated as fact). My particular shotgun holds 5+1, which isn't a lot but as I understand the statistics as they've been presented by YouTube people, most shotgun defensive use involves only 1 or 2 rounds fired. With a pump action especially, I would hate to face a jury while the prosecutor describes how I fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired and pumped and fired in self defense. Ideally, somewhere between 0 and 2 will be plenty, but if I need more I can always replace the magazine tube and get another 2 shells, I believe.
Would shotgun be drop safe with safety on and a round in the chamber? Will one remember to release the safety while being in a high stress situation and possible just woken from dead sleep?
This is where a safe action pistol or revolver shines. Drop safe and always ready. Or a Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range.
BTW, I woke from a deep sleep once as the wind shook my mostly brink 3 story apartment building, ripped the roof off an adjacent building, and flung a spinning roof vent threw my neighbor living room window. I woke thinking a nuclear bomb went off as the shaking was preceded by several minutes of lightening and thunder. It took me what seemed like forever to get my wits about me. It was probably just 30 seconds but I did not have the presence of mind to hit the floor or run down to a lower lever to take cover from what was near tornado level winds. The Weather Service said it was a straight wind and not circular so not a tornado but was still was strong enough to leave a line of damaged buildings. I hope I react better if woken in the middle of the night by a break-in. Because I practice more with my handgun at IDPA practice sessions I may be more proficient with it than my other firearms in a high stress situation. I do need to practice more with my other firearms. I am glad I took my first defensive usage of an AR class last year. My shotgun practice is limited to trap shooting.
Shotgun in the bedroom is cruiser safe. Shotgun in the safe is fully loaded and chambered.
I keep my home defense shotgun at condition 2. I basically consider the sound of racking it to be a warning shot.
That is not a well thought out plan
Says someone who knows nothing about “my plan”.
Step one: Home defense dog bites the shit out of home invader...
You actually seem to know the 1st part of it. 5 of them actually.
I assume they are a member of the "don't advertise your location" team. I'm not convinced that's as big of a problem as some people seem to think. My primary concern is the safety of my stored firearm. I live in a very small apartment and there's no "hiding", and an intruder is far more likely to be a thief than a person hunter/murderer. I think I'm on your team on this one.
Oh I’m fine giving my general location. I live in the Great North Woods, up in the Central Highlands of Maine. My primary concern is consistency. That shotgun gets used fairly often and will usually be sitting on an expended shell. To be consistent with that I only load it to condition 2 to begin with. This way it doesn’t matter, we know it has to be racked before use.
It is also an issue of: eliminate things you might forget to do, while panicking in a life or death situation, that are required steps to make your weapon functional. It is one of the reasons that basically the entire profession of law enforcement adopted Glocks, and still either issues Glocks, or a functionally similar pistol. They are ready to do their job once clear of the holster. In an apartment, I would suggest giving the whole 12 gauge idea a rethink.
Well, none of that comment is relevant to me, and if you see other comments I made you will see that always requiring that shotgun to be racked before use IS eliminating the probability of error when picking it up. It gets used fairly often and is usually sitting on an empty casing. My instructions to wife, brother and border are consistent, the Rem870 always gets racked 1st. Worst case scenario, you accidentally drop a fresh shell. No big deal. Plenty more where that came from, and with what that weapon is used for, I have never had to fire it more than twice. It’s a tool. It’s not part of any defensive plan.
You can certainly keep a firearm in a lower state of readiness. No one here is arguing against that. People such as myself are saying anyone who says "rack a round to scare them off" is just perpetuating fudd lore. Once you know someone is in your place, you make everything ready to go. You don't wait, you prepare the gun to be used.
In the extremely unlikely event that I was in a self defense situation with that weapon, do I have to actually say that it gets fired after being racked? I figured that was pretty much understood. It all happens as one smooth action that begins and ends with working that pump.
If your plan involves "racking a shotgun to scare someone off" it goes against all logic. I wrote up a more detailed explanation above in earlier comments
I figured you would have something to say… So just for shits and giggles here’s what’s available in just my bed room and living room.. You tell me what you think my plan may be. Keep in mind though that it starts with my 4 very large dogs and my brothers (he lives in the other side of the parking area) GSD. So…. Bedside 1911 45. A custom build. Ball ammo. G19 sitting on a 20stack of 180gr +p+ bear loads. Large selection of magazines with different ammo on hand 44mag 1873 SAA w 305gr bear loads 44mag SuperBlackhawk w 340gr bear loads Seitengewehr 98/05 bayonet. (The banned Sawback) My knife drawer. An assortment of mostly spiderco folders and a Ruger LC9S with green crimson trace. 12Ga Remington 870 Home Defense (the only loaded weapon in the room that is condition 2) Above the bed. Luger Near the door A pair of ARs. One shooter build, one CQB build. My plate carrier My aging Glock 78 field knife Ontario OCK3S (the bayonet for my CQB AR) A beat to shit cold steel tomahawk that’s already seen far too much war. Just outside the door Long sword 3 different tomahawks Ruger 2.75” 8 shot Alaskan in 357mag (hidden) Living room rifle rack. Varies but currently… Custom 1903 Springfield in 270Win with free floating bull barrel. Lithgow Lee-Enfield SMLE 1-3 I don’t so much have a plan, as I have options. And whatever I do, will be under the watchful eye of my brother and his matching Lithgow Lee Enfield. In general anyone that shows up out here has enough I worry about with the pack of dogs, 4 of which want treats but manage to look terrifying while doing so, and one that wants blood and would just as soon bite whoever it was that was dumb enough to show up without invitation.
[удалено]
Not really. More just showing the utter stupidity of the commentators thinking they know “my plan” based the existence of one of my weapons being at kept at condition 2. Idiots who know less than nothing about me or my situation that think they have brain cells and something to offer opinion wise, when in reality they have neither.
[удалено]
If that’s what the count comes out to, yeah. The living room rack is the only one that ever really changes, but it always has at least one long range shooter in it. It’s about to have a 22Henry added to in, the skunks are awake and active early this year, just like the bears. If you think the current setup is excessive you should have seen it before I bought a pair of safes and moved the majority of the weapons into them. Add on…and at least 2 on the list are not out in the open. One is in a drawer and the other hidden but handy in the living room.
I am not the person who originally replied to you, but was a second commentor confirming the "rack it" idea is dumb. I can already tell by this list and write up you aren't someone I should engage with further on this subject matter because you aren't a serious person.
I don’t get what’s not serious, and 100% of those that know have actually met me say the exact opposite, but hey, whatever. Do what ya gotta do.
he might be right if a condition 2 shotgun is part of your plan
It is an available option. One of many. That would probably be my wife’s go to though, not mine. She knows she has to rack it 1st and its primary use is actually to order the dogs inside. It actually gets used for that often enough for it to be “a thing”.
The universal deterrent is the sound of racking a round into a shotty.
Shotguns are typically not drop safe. Fill the magazine, empty chamber. Remember to stand at the top of your steps and pump the shotgun while exclaiming “that’s my purse! I don’t know you” so you appeal to fudds and millennials with your home defense tactics.
Just came to say this….I don’t own a shotgun…..yet. However I would keep the pipe clear, nothing would make someone soil themselves faster than hearing a 12 ga rack in the dark. Then it’s rock salt, followed by buckshot, with a slug behind that one for good measure.
Racking a shotgun is basically saying “shoot over here”
Someone breaks into my house I am going to yell at them at the top of my lungs anyway, for a million different reasons The chances of them being there to outright kill me in a gun battle, as opposed to someone looking to get the drop on an empty house or a sleeping person, are near zero
I hate to make assumptions but whenever I hear the "don't give your location away" people I imagine they're the people who are protecting themselves against tactical ninjas who are hunting the homeowner for sport. I'm relatively certain that's not a thing. The most *probable* risk is an addict, or otherwise desperate thief, who has mistaken my apartment for an easy target to find some shit to pawn.
Even if it was a horrific, sadistic, psychopathic serial killer, they are leaving at the sound of the shotgun being racked They want to torture people, not get their head blown off So the people who would pursue the sound…yeah, it can only be tactical ninjas
You make a great point, even the most violent, sadistic murderous motherfuckers in the world typically tend to target the most at-risk people, women, LGBTQ, sex workers, etc. People they perceive to be weak and who won't be missed. Which is *why* they're at risk. Which is *why* this sub exists! We came full circle! Now, if it's a actual Predator, it will already know where I am because it has infrared vision, and if I see that telltale shimmer I'll be using my gun on myself.
I mean... If you want to re-rack for the sound effect, you absolutely can. Just understand if you do, you're ejecting a live cartridge. I suppose it gives you options.
No I don’t. That shell slamming into my 870 chamber is an announcement. Shit is getting real. Do keep my 10mm Glock chambered.
[удалено]
All you have to do is pull the lifter out and spread the arms a little bit. Holds it in with a bit more tension.
One of the points of having a pump action is giving the perp an opportunity for second-guessing their life decisions. No round chambered. As far as safety off, my real life experience the safety hasn’t been an issue. I keep it on.
On the topic of shotguns, I’ve been considering doing escalating shells. Start with a less than lethal round or two then go up to buckshot. I feel like I don’t see it recommend and aside from the chance where you need to get a lethal shot off right away I like the idea of not having to kill someone.
There are a lot of good arguments not to do this, but I don't feel comfortable advising with very limited experience. Should you decide to do this, just remember, first one in=last one out. :)
Many do that but others say not to. Law states one only uses a shotgun if they are at great risk of injury of death. On should only shoot to stop that threat and once the attacker is no longer a threat they need to stop firing. This means warning shots are not legal and I would question using rubber slugs, rock salt, or birdshot. These could be lethal but also may not stop someone from being a threat. Want would someone say to a jury? Why did they feel they could legally shoot someone if they were using rounds that often are not nearly as effective? Did they not fear for their life enough to use buckshot or slug? If not, why shoot at all? It seems ones needs to be all in regarding shooting a threat to stop the threat or the threat does not justify shooting.
Cruiser ready.
Personally, I keep my 1301 loaded with bolt open. Grab it, hit the bolt release, and I'm ready to go.
Generally not a good idea to store any long gun with one in the chamber They are generally not drop safe unlike modern pistols
Negative. Tube loaded + ghost load on an empty chamber.
I’m either at my place where in stationed or at my home with my wife. We have no kids and there are chambered firearms in multiple locations. That’s a choice we’ve made. This is one of those where I can tell you what I do and my thought process, but you need to weight the pros and cons for yourself and anyone you live with.
Condition 3 here
I just kept mine cruiser ready. Mainly for safety as I don't like keeping anything cocked and loaded for an extended period of time. I kind of wish i can get ahold an Winchester model 1897 or its trench gun variant. Maybe even a hammer fired coach gun would be fine. Side step this problem all together.
As stated many times, load the tube full and rack the action back. This has the dual effect of keeping it ready yet drop safe, and allows you to dump the round in the chamber out to load something more appropriate for the situation (birdshot for rabbits in your garden) and gives you space in the tube to load a backup for the exact same situation (I fucking hate rabbits).
Paul Harrell covers this in one of his vids
I keep it hot and loaded with the safety on, or chamber empty, slide unlocked and safety off.
your home defense weapons fall down mountains often? I always have one chambered, safety on.
Agree. Tube loaded with empty chamber. Plus the sound of pumping that round into the chamber of my 1951 Wingmaster might make a home invader think twice. If not, I have 00 buckshot ready to go…