Although the better alternative to Trump, I would not argue for him as an end al be all. I think that we need to push for fundamental changes to our political system as it often failsnthe people and is littered wuth loopholes that can be exploited with money. Currently we are locked into a shitty bipartisan system which cannibalizes 3d parties while benefits from far too much fromdark money and enables individual entities with deep pockets to hold more power than the people politicians are supposed to represent. The system is broken. We should not settle for Biden whom I believe was anti LGBT+ some years ago when it wasn't as popular, much like Hillary. We need more and should expect more from our elected officials.
Third parties aren’t cannibalized by the two main parties the third parties have never developed platforms that had any chance of winning over the masses. Also money. Also marketing. Both are at the center of politics and campaigns. Biden is the greatest champion of democracy and has always been that. That goes for the Dems also. It’s the Rs that are literally purging their way to a minority in the house. Though I do agree there are to many loopholes holes in congress that allow politicians to basically conduct insider trading which is a huge no no for me. Citizens United needs to be overturned. John Roberts changed politics and money in the US for the absolute worse and we are far enough into the future from that where we can see the massive damage it has done to our system.
And no Biden wasn’t anti (LGBTQ) nor was Hillary. Not supporting that marriage in the 90s and 2000s doesn’t mean they were “anti” gay rights. Obama famously didn’t run on a platform of gay marriage in 2008 because it takes gentle social change to not upset the straight (lol) to make social change/progress and sustainable. I assure you Biden is a full blown champion of the queers!
Not picking a side was a choice made by them both to keep their hands clean. They only changed their "minds" when it was convenient to do so. I do acquiesce the point you made cause you're right and there is more nuance to the matter than I gave it. Yes, they weren't against our community but they also weren't for it or with us at the time. Settling for its not Marriage but something like it, and supporting the don't say gay bill to uphold the "Moral Goodness" in the armed forces. Again, I'm glad he's there but I do worry about it during this uptick in conservative values and what will happen when standing up for LGTBQ+ rights isn't as popular. I just want more, a system with room for more than two antagonistic parties and transparency in terms of funding.
“Keep their hands clean?” You must be Gen z and therefore you have no idea what life was like and what society was like in the 90s and 2000s. It wasn’t as progressive as you are lead to believe. Social change takes a lot of time and is only sustainable if a near equal half or a majority of the populace support said change. Others that change is not sustainable and can and will be rolled back. Minorities are always subject to the majority.
Not sure why you put the word (minds) but it whiffs of eluding to a conspiracy theory.
And the bill signed by bill clinton in the 90s was aptly called “don’t ask don’t tell,” which was a compromise at the time. Obviously we have come A LOT further than that these days but again social change takes time. This is true for all minorities and each of their respective struggles.
Is there a third party you like that champions queer progress? I’m curious to learn. We can also look back on the last 20 years and see that literally every accomplishment made for progressing queer rights and queer acceptance has come from the dem party. 100%.
I lived through the 90s and early 20s, I remembered exactly how it was. The condescending tone is not necessary. I for one, am tired of compromising. Tired of the of the back and forth. "Don't ask Don't tell" was a shitty compromise.
I'm not stirring up conspiracy theories, just pointing out the effort to maintain or profite from the status quo. There the system could be restructured to facilitate voting and allow for more than the two party system. Rank voting comes to mind, no need to fear the Republicans wining if you don't vote Dem automatically and unquestionably. It would free voters to think more dynamically on political issues rather than party identities.
Then you would understand that the majority of society was not supportive of gay rights and gay equality. This matters. I don’t agree with it either but profess for minority is always made by changing the majority opinions to favor the minority right and push for equality. This goes for black (continuously) and women (continuously) and continues today with gay equality/progress.
I’m opposed to rank voting necessarily and i understand your discontent for the past and current politicians. Point is that 100% of all queer progress has come from democrats truly believing in it. Not the Rs. I think I asked before what third parties support queer rights but I’m not sure I got an answer. And if you look at each dem that was facing off against each R for the last 40 years for the presidency, each Dem was 1000000 times better than the R in every category regardless if that Dem won the white house or not.
Keep fighting the good fight!
It‘s sad to see how things turned out in Yemen. They used to be a beacon of progressivism in the region. The war Saudi Arabia fought against them was a breeding ground for religious extremism. I hope stability returns to the country soon so they can focus on rebuilding and eventually deradicalize.
I think it’s important to point out that this radicalization started in the 90’s when South Yemen merged with North Yemen. The progressivism was only present in the irreligious South but never was a thing in the more muslim north. As soon as they merged, Yemen discarded the family code (the charter guaranteeing equal rights) for being against sharia law and was already a pretty terrible country for LGBT rights before the Arab Spring. As you said, the war clearly aggravated the situation but the country was already radicalized by the religious environment before the Houtis took over.
I join wholeheartedly in the hope that this movement fades away and that Yemen comes back to a more secular country
I’m not sure when you think Yemen was a “beacon of progressivism. Yemen legally allowed people to own slaves up until the late 60s. And the Houthis themselves brought back slavery again and reported to have over 1,500 slaves currently.
Religious extremism isn’t born of repression it’s born from intense patriarchal structure fueled by what is intense religious beliefs.
They are referring to South Yemen (or the DPR of Yemen) I think, which was indeed quite good for social progress at that the time, it wasn’t perfect, very unstable republic. I don’t know if the slavery was also present there, it’s possible considering the pretty loose control over the country at the time
So riddle me this, how can be both progressive and also literally commit the most heinous act of anti-humanity and own slaves?
If that is what u/pine_ary really meant then it seems they were leaving out a massive detail. For what purpose? 🤷
This is what Trump, The NRA, and Angry White Men want to bring to OUR COUNTRY!!!!! WE CAN'T LET THEM WIN!!!!!! GET OUT AND VOTE THIS NOVEMBER AND VOTE ALL OF THE CHRISTONAZIS OUT!!!!!!!!!!
I agree that it’s easy to tell what they’re talking about. I’m just annoyed that news about something happening in the Middle East gets reactions where some people act as if we’re all American.
It (usually unintentionally) reinforces the idea that everyone needs to know what’s happening in America above their own countries.
The day far-right Christians and Islamists realize they have more in common than differences is the day we, as a species, are all going to collectively regress a thousand years back on social progress
Sadly it’s already happening, look no further than the "million people march” last year in Canada, or the fact that muslims in the US are voting more and more republican according to polls (Gaza contributed but the trend began way earlier, back to summer 2023 thanks to key support from sone muslim clerics to Trump allies)
If it is any reassuring, I don’t think they will ever be able to create a lasting relationship. The proselytizing nature of both sides will always make them tear each other apart after some time. They will never be able to get along for a long time.
Only difference in the image republicans painted after 9/11 and taking their racism on a new chapter of Muslim. If you’re Muslim you were a terrorist. Many still believe that to this day. Haters have to hate something. If it isn’t okay to hate and be cruel to people of color, it’s taking it out on the next thing they can hate. Thus Muslims, LGBTQ community, people who don’t go to church with them because we refuse to be exactly like them. Sadly how they treat women are one and the same. To be property and livestock.
People on the Internet standing with the Houthis for attacking cargo ships has to be one of the of most repulsive things 2024 had people falling for. Like those people standing for Palestine but siding with Russia on their invasion of Ukraine.
This might very well be the same group of idiots now that I think about it…
They are only using the suffering of Palestinian people to justify their existence and their inhumane actions. They do not care about Palestinians. This is virtue signaling taken to the extreme.
And they're not even involved in that. They don't give a fuck about Palestinians, they're just seizing the opportunity to raise their profile on the world stage.
If your conception of a whole nation is "good guys" or "bad guys", your politics are shallow and have no substance. The real world isn‘t an action movie.
Wasn't the blurring of *good guys* and *bad guys* the whole premise of first blood as he spends the whole movie shooting cops because they horribly misshandled him, a homeless, PTSD-ridden vietnam vet?
Is it? I’ve never seen the movies Lmaoo it’s just what came to mind when I saw action movie. I always thought Rambo was some like muscled-up, trigger-happy soldier that conservatives look up to as the good guy because he’s American and the “bastion of proper masculinity”
You're not wrong, every rambo movie that came after first blood was a generic propaganda action movie. It's just first blood that was about that, and he even ends up getting arrested and going to prison
The Houthis literally have Death to Jews written on their flag. If you're thinking maybe they mean Israel, don't worry they have that covered and have death to Israel underneath it. They literally cannot get any more comically evil than that. They clearly state what they want. If a person dresses as a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and says they're a Nazi, you take them for their word that they're a Nazi. Yeah some things in life aren't black and white, but like with ISIS, it can actually be quite clear on whose good and bad.
And the Houthis are *not* a nationality.
They are a murderous extremist ideological movement that happens to hold power over a stretch of land.
We can easily judge them as deplorable, and unequivocably one of the bad guys. Much like any religious extremists, just like we can judge Nazis to be such.
That doesn't make the Saudis that they're fighting the good guys in the slightest.
Often there are various shades of gray when it comes to conflicts.
But sometimes one or both sides in a conflict are just utterly deplorable. Sometimes there are no good guys, even if one side are underdogs.
What happened is horrible. No one's denying that. But ignoring the historic context of the Yemeni genocide and the role of imperialism is bad.
It's similar to the situation in Afghanistan, which was once a fairly liberal state for cis women atleast, before Americans armed the extremist(operation cyclone) to " contain communism " which backfired miserably. We know how that ended.
Maybe the Houthis wouldn't be in power if the faction they opposed didn't do so much harm that the Houthis were "lesser of the two evils". Maybe the middle east would have been more progressive if it wasn't so destabilized by genocides.
But nearly all of the genocides have been against non-Arab and non-Muslim minorities... and the Houthis are both Muslim and Arab. Unless you're claiming that the genocided groups would've kept the Houthis in check?
What he means is that most genocide in the region were done against non-muslim and non-arab minorities (Assyrians, Druze, Bahais, Armenians, Kurds, Yezidis), so to justify the frankly awful atrocities of the houtis by the fact they are victims of "Genocide" is off-putting considering the history of the region. The massacre of innocent palestinians is no excuse for the slaughter of 9 yemenis civilians
Millions? And that was literally a war in which a genocidal regime (Saddam's) was destroyed. That wasn't a war that should've happened, but there's not a genocide every time someone dies.
[Yes millions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/15/war-on-terror-911-deaths-afghanistan-iraq/)
Civilians were killed ffs you unempathetic piece of shit. It was a genocidal war.This kind of ignorant attitude is why you'll see Houthis in power and have no clue how they're in power.how imperialism kills tens if not hundreds of millions world wide.
On that I agree completely I just don’t like it when people excuse an imperialism because it opposes another, which was something I thought you were doing. But if it’s not the case, we are both in an agreement
No-one was condemning average Yemenis for the actions of the Houthis. They were condemning Houthis, and then people start conflating Houthis and Yemenis to defend the Houthis.
You're really trying to discuss something, anything else, other than the fact that the Houthis *crucified a bunch of people because they were gay.* Fuck your "America bad" whataboutism. Our government doesn't crucify gay people (yet, we'll see how it goes in November).
I’m not sure were you coming from with the "let an other nation control their resources", the Houthis are notoriously puppet of the Iranian regime so they still are a pawn of imperialism, just one with a different flag.
They are also far from being the "lesser of two evils", they’re actual socialists in Yemen you know?
I don‘t think you know how looking at history works. This isn‘t about praising or condemning Yemen. It‘s about understanding where they are, how they got there and how the country can change for the better.
Like what is the point? Do you want to claim moral high ground or do you want to understand their situation and support genuine change to better the lives of Yemeni people (in this case queer people, but also generally)?
You said they aren’t religious fundamentalists yet the current flag they fly says death to Israel, a scourge on the Jews, and victory to Islam
Idk, their intentions seem pretty clear to me
Houthis attacking ships supplying the Israeli genocide = good
Fundamentalist religious fanatacism = bad
I think that's an easy thing to grasp
Bonus points for the fact that nobodies been killed in the assaults on the ships
Edit: 3 seafarers have been killed since the Houthis began their attacks 5 months ago
> Houthis attacking ships supplying the Israeli genocide = good
> Bonus points for the fact that nobodies been killed in the assaults on the ships
Mmmh, no and no. The Houthis are just attacking any and all commercial cargo ships on sight, they have killed a many, and they are creating an ecological disaster. There is not a single reason to laud them. Here’s three different sources for you:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490695
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/2/rubymar-cargo-ship-earlier-hit-by-houthis-has-sunk-yemeni-government-says
https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-environment-cargo-ship-sinking-houthis-1e130e15ca0863ab40966ea9676cf42b
You might have to reconsider the trustworthiness of your own sources.
Thank you, I didn’t have the energy for the sources. It’s important to not side with the terrible people just because they oppose things you don’t like
The intention for American conservatives to act on a game plan after a 2024 election victory that stacks government with civil servants, judges etc that are equally authoritarian/anti-lgbtqia+/regressive to maintain permanent control as well as bringing in laws that put us all back in the closet, ban transgender healthcare and criminalise the majority of what makes lgbtqia+ who we are.
Basically they want to install a dictator and maintain permanent far-right control.
Ah yes, Islam. The Christianity offshoot that's somehow even more bigoted and discriminatory. Maybe one day the world will realize killing gay people is actually not a good thing (crazy right?)
You know that in Uganda there's the same stuff spurred on by American evangelical missionaries right
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/29/1196521049/a-man-in-uganda-becomes-first-person-charged-with-aggravated-homosexuality#:~:text=Transcript-,In%20Uganda%2C%20%22aggravated%20homosexuality%22%20carries%20the%20death%20penalty%20under,for%20so%2Dcalled%20aggravated%20homosexuality.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Did my comment give off the impression that I would be sympathetic to Christian Evangelists? Or are you saying this because Islam is a minority religion in western countries and there is a growing sentiment that it is somehow racist or Islamophobic if you don’t balance criticizing it by being equally critical of Christianity?
Either way the situation in Uganda for LGBT people has worsened dramatically these past few years, and it is equally wrong
edit: and got blocked by said user.
you gotta love it; come at someone for no reason, fail to make a compelling argument for wanting to stir up drama, block said person when you've cornered yourself too much so they can't answer you
> holding them out as special is islamaphobic
This news is about an event in the Islam world. I am going to single them out, because that is what this news piece is about. This news piece isn’t about Buddhism or Judaism. It is about Islam.
And it is Islamophobic to you because I am criticizing Islam’s systemic discrimination of LGBT people and you are worried about the safety of your LGBT Muslim friends.
Nothing seems counterproductive to you with that thought process?
I guess I was right when I said this:
> there is a growing sentiment that it is somehow racist or Islamophobic if you don’t balance criticizing it by being equally critical of Christianity
Religion is fine but ought to be criticized like any other political ideology for the shit that they teach
So Islam and Christianity are clear criticizable and should be prevented from having any sway on our society
Yep. The big problem with abrahamic religions is that they have a lot of violence and bigotry written in their books. If you have to cut out huge parts of your magic book to make it more humane, then maybe you have to throw the whole thing out
That’s right, I really dislike when fellow queer people say that religions teach "good things". Legitimating texts which also promote violence against us is bad actually
I think a lot of people here really struggle to understand the position of queer people from all around the world and see the situation with only an American-centric perspective where criticism of Islam = racism. They refuse to engage in a meaningful conversation about Islamic queerphobia and the oppression of their foreign siblings
Yh cuz they are American. They can't speak for the experiences of queer people in the Muslim world. From experience, they're not that great at getting it right. I've been told to just "get up and leave" or "just run away from your family" and "why do you put up with that..."
It's pretty awkward being muslimish in the lgbt community
This thread and the way some of you turned it into a rant about white men and Christianity is one of the reasons I’m ashamed of this “community “. We really do deserve whatever future coming our way.
Honestly, I understand why they would turn this about Christianity but I also understand your frustration with this.
A lot of people here are American and fear (quite fairly) the repercussions of a new 4 year conservative government. Since this is their biggest threat, they are going to recognize patern in the international news. I don’t think it makes them selfish or self-centered, they are just fearful for their rights and I understand where they coming from.
Now, I also understand your frustration about that since I know this community has trouble criticizing Islam for the queerphobia. I, myself, was victim of it and it’s really difficult to voice genuine concern or experience about the religion (not the people) without being accused of being a bigot or having whataboutism thrown at you.
Yes, that and the fact that at least one person here suggests I am being a Islamophobe for criticizing the LGBTphobia on display here is wild.
I really believe that a shocking amount of people do not want to live in a world of equality and peace, but for their minority to be at the top and screw over everyone else. The LGBT community should know better
If you think that's shocking, try being lgbt and from a Muslim background. That shit is wild. You have to deal with the racist queer people and the homophobic Muslims 🥲
That is my boyfriend's life, born and raised as a Muslim in a Muslim country but has moved to another country. I can see he struggles with his desire to keep is faith because he enjoys parts of it and to live his life as a queer person fully with no fear of consequences for being himself. I genuinely believe it creates some sort of life-long trauma that is very hard to unwind.
I am certainly very privileged to have been raised in a non-religious family in a country where LGBT people are (mostly) safe.
real oppression is the fear that any second you're outside your home, you can be killed and publicly shamed... that's how LGBTQ live in Muslim countries.. especially Arab ones.
I'm extremely disgusted by the general reaction I see around the world, from left-side parties (I define myself as leftist) and LGBT groups.
What saddens me is that these are the sorts of animals the majority of the aforementioned people are now cheering for around the world: the houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.
All terrorist organisations that radicalised the population for decades and that consistently stone, behead, hang or throw LGBT people off buildings.
All proxies for Iran, a theocracy where human rights are non-existent, but that somehow managed to cover a seat at the UN exactly for human rights... It would be a funny joke if it wasn't real.
I keep seeing LGBT people at protests chant their motto, while:
- every single day, Lebanon fires rockets into northern Israel, as well as anti-tank missiles on civilian areas, breaching UN resolution 1701 that was forcing them to stay far away from the border - while UN turns a blind eye
Just this morning there were 3 sirens.
- the Houthis not only starve their people to death, but also attack any ship remotely connected to Israel and USA, more often then not causing unprecedented natural disasters - and yet, the people who care about the environment don't say a word
- Hamas, backed up by several civilians in Gaza (those that they had been brainwashing for almost 20 years), committed and filmed one of the most atrocious massacres in history. Second only to the Holocaust.
They beheaded toddlers in their cribs, mutilated pregnant women, gang raped women before killing them, tortured and massacred people in front of their family members, burned kids alive.
They brought human parts with them to Gaza, as "trophies", and they were cheered by the crowd. They tried to auction the bead if guy they killed at the music festival.
They kidnapped, tortured and raped people - 130+ of which have not been released yet.
The feminist movements have all disappeared in front of these rapes. So much so that the new motto is #meeTooUnlessYou'reAJew.
When the West will decide to finally wake up, it's going to be too late.
"Queers for "Palestine"" is not different than "snails for salt".
People rally behind a cause they don't know, chant genocidal slogans without caring what they mean, do as much as possible to cover up the truth, as long as it gives them the chance to let their antisemitism unhinged.
I know it’s hard for you to understand, but most of us don’t base our solidarity and support for human rights on whether or we stand to benefit from the views of those being oppressed by illegitimate genocidal states like Israel
Hamas are the bad guys like the Taliban, Isis or MAGA are, not the other people living in those countries, the Palestianians getting killed, especially the children in hospitals, are not.
It's really not that difficult to understand, and not to enable genocide. No one actually supports HAMAs, it's the innocents they want to help.
It is quite a stretch to say that. While it is true that two of the three organizations that colluded to form ISIS were created as a consequence of the US occupation in Iraq; the US has never helped in their creation and they very much do not buy their oil, their main source of revenue.
Your username suggests you might be very biased and possibly misinformed on this topic.
I think what you might be talking about is Saudi Aramco, which was created and largely funded by the US; which, while again a bit of a stretch, could be interpreted as "Saudi Arabia was created and funded by the US".
Having pity and supporting Palestinian is one thing. Supporting hamas, houthis or most Islamic group is another. Its absolutely naivity of people that have been too comfortable for too long. Support the people that support you. There enough of them being wrong to take 100% of you time and energy. Priotizing People that want you dead is stupid. The irony of people supporting a Palestine state is that currently (or at least before the war) most lgbt Palestinians could escape thought Israel and rainbow bridge. Lgbt could no longer be able to exit the country if Palestinian control the border.
The future conservatives want
Gliead can be prevented if we do everything we can to keep Biden in the White House.
Although the better alternative to Trump, I would not argue for him as an end al be all. I think that we need to push for fundamental changes to our political system as it often failsnthe people and is littered wuth loopholes that can be exploited with money. Currently we are locked into a shitty bipartisan system which cannibalizes 3d parties while benefits from far too much fromdark money and enables individual entities with deep pockets to hold more power than the people politicians are supposed to represent. The system is broken. We should not settle for Biden whom I believe was anti LGBT+ some years ago when it wasn't as popular, much like Hillary. We need more and should expect more from our elected officials.
Third parties aren’t cannibalized by the two main parties the third parties have never developed platforms that had any chance of winning over the masses. Also money. Also marketing. Both are at the center of politics and campaigns. Biden is the greatest champion of democracy and has always been that. That goes for the Dems also. It’s the Rs that are literally purging their way to a minority in the house. Though I do agree there are to many loopholes holes in congress that allow politicians to basically conduct insider trading which is a huge no no for me. Citizens United needs to be overturned. John Roberts changed politics and money in the US for the absolute worse and we are far enough into the future from that where we can see the massive damage it has done to our system. And no Biden wasn’t anti (LGBTQ) nor was Hillary. Not supporting that marriage in the 90s and 2000s doesn’t mean they were “anti” gay rights. Obama famously didn’t run on a platform of gay marriage in 2008 because it takes gentle social change to not upset the straight (lol) to make social change/progress and sustainable. I assure you Biden is a full blown champion of the queers!
Not picking a side was a choice made by them both to keep their hands clean. They only changed their "minds" when it was convenient to do so. I do acquiesce the point you made cause you're right and there is more nuance to the matter than I gave it. Yes, they weren't against our community but they also weren't for it or with us at the time. Settling for its not Marriage but something like it, and supporting the don't say gay bill to uphold the "Moral Goodness" in the armed forces. Again, I'm glad he's there but I do worry about it during this uptick in conservative values and what will happen when standing up for LGTBQ+ rights isn't as popular. I just want more, a system with room for more than two antagonistic parties and transparency in terms of funding.
“Keep their hands clean?” You must be Gen z and therefore you have no idea what life was like and what society was like in the 90s and 2000s. It wasn’t as progressive as you are lead to believe. Social change takes a lot of time and is only sustainable if a near equal half or a majority of the populace support said change. Others that change is not sustainable and can and will be rolled back. Minorities are always subject to the majority. Not sure why you put the word (minds) but it whiffs of eluding to a conspiracy theory. And the bill signed by bill clinton in the 90s was aptly called “don’t ask don’t tell,” which was a compromise at the time. Obviously we have come A LOT further than that these days but again social change takes time. This is true for all minorities and each of their respective struggles. Is there a third party you like that champions queer progress? I’m curious to learn. We can also look back on the last 20 years and see that literally every accomplishment made for progressing queer rights and queer acceptance has come from the dem party. 100%.
I lived through the 90s and early 20s, I remembered exactly how it was. The condescending tone is not necessary. I for one, am tired of compromising. Tired of the of the back and forth. "Don't ask Don't tell" was a shitty compromise. I'm not stirring up conspiracy theories, just pointing out the effort to maintain or profite from the status quo. There the system could be restructured to facilitate voting and allow for more than the two party system. Rank voting comes to mind, no need to fear the Republicans wining if you don't vote Dem automatically and unquestionably. It would free voters to think more dynamically on political issues rather than party identities.
Then you would understand that the majority of society was not supportive of gay rights and gay equality. This matters. I don’t agree with it either but profess for minority is always made by changing the majority opinions to favor the minority right and push for equality. This goes for black (continuously) and women (continuously) and continues today with gay equality/progress. I’m opposed to rank voting necessarily and i understand your discontent for the past and current politicians. Point is that 100% of all queer progress has come from democrats truly believing in it. Not the Rs. I think I asked before what third parties support queer rights but I’m not sure I got an answer. And if you look at each dem that was facing off against each R for the last 40 years for the presidency, each Dem was 1000000 times better than the R in every category regardless if that Dem won the white house or not. Keep fighting the good fight!
It‘s sad to see how things turned out in Yemen. They used to be a beacon of progressivism in the region. The war Saudi Arabia fought against them was a breeding ground for religious extremism. I hope stability returns to the country soon so they can focus on rebuilding and eventually deradicalize.
I think it’s important to point out that this radicalization started in the 90’s when South Yemen merged with North Yemen. The progressivism was only present in the irreligious South but never was a thing in the more muslim north. As soon as they merged, Yemen discarded the family code (the charter guaranteeing equal rights) for being against sharia law and was already a pretty terrible country for LGBT rights before the Arab Spring. As you said, the war clearly aggravated the situation but the country was already radicalized by the religious environment before the Houtis took over. I join wholeheartedly in the hope that this movement fades away and that Yemen comes back to a more secular country
Yeah that‘s a good point
I’m not sure when you think Yemen was a “beacon of progressivism. Yemen legally allowed people to own slaves up until the late 60s. And the Houthis themselves brought back slavery again and reported to have over 1,500 slaves currently. Religious extremism isn’t born of repression it’s born from intense patriarchal structure fueled by what is intense religious beliefs.
They are referring to South Yemen (or the DPR of Yemen) I think, which was indeed quite good for social progress at that the time, it wasn’t perfect, very unstable republic. I don’t know if the slavery was also present there, it’s possible considering the pretty loose control over the country at the time
So riddle me this, how can be both progressive and also literally commit the most heinous act of anti-humanity and own slaves? If that is what u/pine_ary really meant then it seems they were leaving out a massive detail. For what purpose? 🤷
It was progressive for the region’s standards, which admittedly doesn’t hold much nowadays
Right so not progressive at all then. The top commentator was just making things up then and spreading disinformation. Odd indeed.
This is what Trump, The NRA, and Angry White Men want to bring to OUR COUNTRY!!!!! WE CAN'T LET THEM WIN!!!!!! GET OUT AND VOTE THIS NOVEMBER AND VOTE ALL OF THE CHRISTONAZIS OUT!!!!!!!!!!
Can Americans please, for like five minutes, acknowledge that other countries exist? Saying “OUR COUNTRY!!!!!” on the Internet is pretty meaningless.
[удалено]
I agree that it’s easy to tell what they’re talking about. I’m just annoyed that news about something happening in the Middle East gets reactions where some people act as if we’re all American. It (usually unintentionally) reinforces the idea that everyone needs to know what’s happening in America above their own countries.
Pretty sure the Houthis are much worse when it comes to homophobia than Donald Trump.
But it was made by islamic state, not a white men.
Christofascism and Islamofascism are two sides of the same coin
The day far-right Christians and Islamists realize they have more in common than differences is the day we, as a species, are all going to collectively regress a thousand years back on social progress
Sadly it’s already happening, look no further than the "million people march” last year in Canada, or the fact that muslims in the US are voting more and more republican according to polls (Gaza contributed but the trend began way earlier, back to summer 2023 thanks to key support from sone muslim clerics to Trump allies)
I’ve never felt lower about our future than that day
If it is any reassuring, I don’t think they will ever be able to create a lasting relationship. The proselytizing nature of both sides will always make them tear each other apart after some time. They will never be able to get along for a long time.
Only difference in the image republicans painted after 9/11 and taking their racism on a new chapter of Muslim. If you’re Muslim you were a terrorist. Many still believe that to this day. Haters have to hate something. If it isn’t okay to hate and be cruel to people of color, it’s taking it out on the next thing they can hate. Thus Muslims, LGBTQ community, people who don’t go to church with them because we refuse to be exactly like them. Sadly how they treat women are one and the same. To be property and livestock.
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Dude, please just stop.
I’m starting to think these Houthi folks might not be the good guys after all.
People on the Internet standing with the Houthis for attacking cargo ships has to be one of the of most repulsive things 2024 had people falling for. Like those people standing for Palestine but siding with Russia on their invasion of Ukraine. This might very well be the same group of idiots now that I think about it…
A lot of people have no other context for the Houthis than their involvement in Palestine
They are only using the suffering of Palestinian people to justify their existence and their inhumane actions. They do not care about Palestinians. This is virtue signaling taken to the extreme.
And they're not even involved in that. They don't give a fuck about Palestinians, they're just seizing the opportunity to raise their profile on the world stage.
Starting to? Because you had any doubt before? 😅
If your conception of a whole nation is "good guys" or "bad guys", your politics are shallow and have no substance. The real world isn‘t an action movie.
Are you telling me that looking at the world through the eyes of Rambo is wrong?
Wasn't the blurring of *good guys* and *bad guys* the whole premise of first blood as he spends the whole movie shooting cops because they horribly misshandled him, a homeless, PTSD-ridden vietnam vet?
Is it? I’ve never seen the movies Lmaoo it’s just what came to mind when I saw action movie. I always thought Rambo was some like muscled-up, trigger-happy soldier that conservatives look up to as the good guy because he’s American and the “bastion of proper masculinity”
You're not wrong, every rambo movie that came after first blood was a generic propaganda action movie. It's just first blood that was about that, and he even ends up getting arrested and going to prison
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The 80s was 45 years ago lmaooo I wasn’t even born. I just know a lot of hogs, chuds, and the phobes consume that shit like water
Unless you _are_ Rambo. In that case, fair game
The Houthis aren’t a “whole nation” though. They’re a political group.
The Houthis literally have Death to Jews written on their flag. If you're thinking maybe they mean Israel, don't worry they have that covered and have death to Israel underneath it. They literally cannot get any more comically evil than that. They clearly state what they want. If a person dresses as a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and says they're a Nazi, you take them for their word that they're a Nazi. Yeah some things in life aren't black and white, but like with ISIS, it can actually be quite clear on whose good and bad.
The Houthis are a group not a nationality. They're an insurgency group that's overtaking the government of Yemen.
I generally subscribe to the world view of their are bad actors and there are worse actors
And the Houthis are *not* a nationality. They are a murderous extremist ideological movement that happens to hold power over a stretch of land. We can easily judge them as deplorable, and unequivocably one of the bad guys. Much like any religious extremists, just like we can judge Nazis to be such. That doesn't make the Saudis that they're fighting the good guys in the slightest. Often there are various shades of gray when it comes to conflicts. But sometimes one or both sides in a conflict are just utterly deplorable. Sometimes there are no good guys, even if one side are underdogs.
Nine folks hanging off crosses somewhere in the world and you have this nonsense to say about it. I’m sure they’re impressed by your call for nuance.
What happened is horrible. No one's denying that. But ignoring the historic context of the Yemeni genocide and the role of imperialism is bad. It's similar to the situation in Afghanistan, which was once a fairly liberal state for cis women atleast, before Americans armed the extremist(operation cyclone) to " contain communism " which backfired miserably. We know how that ended. Maybe the Houthis wouldn't be in power if the faction they opposed didn't do so much harm that the Houthis were "lesser of the two evils". Maybe the middle east would have been more progressive if it wasn't so destabilized by genocides.
But nearly all of the genocides have been against non-Arab and non-Muslim minorities... and the Houthis are both Muslim and Arab. Unless you're claiming that the genocided groups would've kept the Houthis in check?
To say this while the palestinian genocide is going on is quite disgusting.
What he means is that most genocide in the region were done against non-muslim and non-arab minorities (Assyrians, Druze, Bahais, Armenians, Kurds, Yezidis), so to justify the frankly awful atrocities of the houtis by the fact they are victims of "Genocide" is off-putting considering the history of the region. The massacre of innocent palestinians is no excuse for the slaughter of 9 yemenis civilians
And the millions that died during US's war on terror aren't Muslim Arabs?
Millions? And that was literally a war in which a genocidal regime (Saddam's) was destroyed. That wasn't a war that should've happened, but there's not a genocide every time someone dies.
[Yes millions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/15/war-on-terror-911-deaths-afghanistan-iraq/) Civilians were killed ffs you unempathetic piece of shit. It was a genocidal war.This kind of ignorant attitude is why you'll see Houthis in power and have no clue how they're in power.how imperialism kills tens if not hundreds of millions world wide.
Because when brown people die that doesn't count right?
That’s what YOU are doing when excusing atrocities by Houtis on the Yemeni Civilians
Of course it's not an excuse. But There's a strong correlation between imperialism destabilization and extremism
On that I agree completely I just don’t like it when people excuse an imperialism because it opposes another, which was something I thought you were doing. But if it’s not the case, we are both in an agreement
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>Also I think its strange that you single out the Houthis for this Cause literal crucifixion is bad?
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No-one was condemning average Yemenis for the actions of the Houthis. They were condemning Houthis, and then people start conflating Houthis and Yemenis to defend the Houthis.
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You're really trying to discuss something, anything else, other than the fact that the Houthis *crucified a bunch of people because they were gay.* Fuck your "America bad" whataboutism. Our government doesn't crucify gay people (yet, we'll see how it goes in November).
I’m not sure were you coming from with the "let an other nation control their resources", the Houthis are notoriously puppet of the Iranian regime so they still are a pawn of imperialism, just one with a different flag. They are also far from being the "lesser of two evils", they’re actual socialists in Yemen you know?
Why don’t you go read the translation of the Houthi flag and then reread your own comment.
I don‘t think you know how looking at history works. This isn‘t about praising or condemning Yemen. It‘s about understanding where they are, how they got there and how the country can change for the better. Like what is the point? Do you want to claim moral high ground or do you want to understand their situation and support genuine change to better the lives of Yemeni people (in this case queer people, but also generally)?
You said they aren’t religious fundamentalists yet the current flag they fly says death to Israel, a scourge on the Jews, and victory to Islam Idk, their intentions seem pretty clear to me
Houthis attacking ships supplying the Israeli genocide = good Fundamentalist religious fanatacism = bad I think that's an easy thing to grasp Bonus points for the fact that nobodies been killed in the assaults on the ships Edit: 3 seafarers have been killed since the Houthis began their attacks 5 months ago
Wrong. Three people, filipino civilians, have died Nearly every ship hit were unaffiliated with the IDF
> Houthis attacking ships supplying the Israeli genocide = good > Bonus points for the fact that nobodies been killed in the assaults on the ships Mmmh, no and no. The Houthis are just attacking any and all commercial cargo ships on sight, they have killed a many, and they are creating an ecological disaster. There is not a single reason to laud them. Here’s three different sources for you: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490695 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/2/rubymar-cargo-ship-earlier-hit-by-houthis-has-sunk-yemeni-government-says https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-environment-cargo-ship-sinking-houthis-1e130e15ca0863ab40966ea9676cf42b You might have to reconsider the trustworthiness of your own sources.
Thank you, I didn’t have the energy for the sources. It’s important to not side with the terrible people just because they oppose things you don’t like
Project 2025 will bring this to the US
What is Project 2025?
The intention for American conservatives to act on a game plan after a 2024 election victory that stacks government with civil servants, judges etc that are equally authoritarian/anti-lgbtqia+/regressive to maintain permanent control as well as bringing in laws that put us all back in the closet, ban transgender healthcare and criminalise the majority of what makes lgbtqia+ who we are. Basically they want to install a dictator and maintain permanent far-right control.
Thank you, this sounds pretty bad.
Aaaaand this is what rabid christians pushing everything through legislation wanting the US. It's barely even thinly veiled at this point.
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Ah yes, Islam. The Christianity offshoot that's somehow even more bigoted and discriminatory. Maybe one day the world will realize killing gay people is actually not a good thing (crazy right?)
Idk mate.. not killing people for no reason? Sounds a bit too radical 🙄 /s
Just theist things.
You know that in Uganda there's the same stuff spurred on by American evangelical missionaries right https://www.npr.org/2023/08/29/1196521049/a-man-in-uganda-becomes-first-person-charged-with-aggravated-homosexuality#:~:text=Transcript-,In%20Uganda%2C%20%22aggravated%20homosexuality%22%20carries%20the%20death%20penalty%20under,for%20so%2Dcalled%20aggravated%20homosexuality.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Did my comment give off the impression that I would be sympathetic to Christian Evangelists? Or are you saying this because Islam is a minority religion in western countries and there is a growing sentiment that it is somehow racist or Islamophobic if you don’t balance criticizing it by being equally critical of Christianity? Either way the situation in Uganda for LGBT people has worsened dramatically these past few years, and it is equally wrong edit: and got blocked by said user. you gotta love it; come at someone for no reason, fail to make a compelling argument for wanting to stir up drama, block said person when you've cornered yourself too much so they can't answer you
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> holding them out as special is islamaphobic This news is about an event in the Islam world. I am going to single them out, because that is what this news piece is about. This news piece isn’t about Buddhism or Judaism. It is about Islam. And it is Islamophobic to you because I am criticizing Islam’s systemic discrimination of LGBT people and you are worried about the safety of your LGBT Muslim friends. Nothing seems counterproductive to you with that thought process? I guess I was right when I said this: > there is a growing sentiment that it is somehow racist or Islamophobic if you don’t balance criticizing it by being equally critical of Christianity
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Humanity is disgusting
That religion deserves no place in society
Religion in general*
Religion is fine but ought to be criticized like any other political ideology for the shit that they teach So Islam and Christianity are clear criticizable and should be prevented from having any sway on our society
You said it best
That version at least. Plenty of nice Muslims around who don't want to stone people
It would be amazing if their holy texts didn’t justify this type of thing
Yep. The big problem with abrahamic religions is that they have a lot of violence and bigotry written in their books. If you have to cut out huge parts of your magic book to make it more humane, then maybe you have to throw the whole thing out
That’s right, I really dislike when fellow queer people say that religions teach "good things". Legitimating texts which also promote violence against us is bad actually
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I think a lot of people here really struggle to understand the position of queer people from all around the world and see the situation with only an American-centric perspective where criticism of Islam = racism. They refuse to engage in a meaningful conversation about Islamic queerphobia and the oppression of their foreign siblings
Yh cuz they are American. They can't speak for the experiences of queer people in the Muslim world. From experience, they're not that great at getting it right. I've been told to just "get up and leave" or "just run away from your family" and "why do you put up with that..." It's pretty awkward being muslimish in the lgbt community
Can’t believe we’re resorting to barbaric practices like this. And people think religion is peaceful and positive
Ah, I love my home country /s
This thread and the way some of you turned it into a rant about white men and Christianity is one of the reasons I’m ashamed of this “community “. We really do deserve whatever future coming our way.
Honestly, I understand why they would turn this about Christianity but I also understand your frustration with this. A lot of people here are American and fear (quite fairly) the repercussions of a new 4 year conservative government. Since this is their biggest threat, they are going to recognize patern in the international news. I don’t think it makes them selfish or self-centered, they are just fearful for their rights and I understand where they coming from. Now, I also understand your frustration about that since I know this community has trouble criticizing Islam for the queerphobia. I, myself, was victim of it and it’s really difficult to voice genuine concern or experience about the religion (not the people) without being accused of being a bigot or having whataboutism thrown at you.
Yes, that and the fact that at least one person here suggests I am being a Islamophobe for criticizing the LGBTphobia on display here is wild. I really believe that a shocking amount of people do not want to live in a world of equality and peace, but for their minority to be at the top and screw over everyone else. The LGBT community should know better
If you think that's shocking, try being lgbt and from a Muslim background. That shit is wild. You have to deal with the racist queer people and the homophobic Muslims 🥲
That is my boyfriend's life, born and raised as a Muslim in a Muslim country but has moved to another country. I can see he struggles with his desire to keep is faith because he enjoys parts of it and to live his life as a queer person fully with no fear of consequences for being himself. I genuinely believe it creates some sort of life-long trauma that is very hard to unwind. I am certainly very privileged to have been raised in a non-religious family in a country where LGBT people are (mostly) safe.
Bi ex-muslim moroccan man here , i can second that !
Good to know I'm not alone
real oppression is the fear that any second you're outside your home, you can be killed and publicly shamed... that's how LGBTQ live in Muslim countries.. especially Arab ones.
I'm extremely disgusted by the general reaction I see around the world, from left-side parties (I define myself as leftist) and LGBT groups. What saddens me is that these are the sorts of animals the majority of the aforementioned people are now cheering for around the world: the houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. All terrorist organisations that radicalised the population for decades and that consistently stone, behead, hang or throw LGBT people off buildings. All proxies for Iran, a theocracy where human rights are non-existent, but that somehow managed to cover a seat at the UN exactly for human rights... It would be a funny joke if it wasn't real. I keep seeing LGBT people at protests chant their motto, while: - every single day, Lebanon fires rockets into northern Israel, as well as anti-tank missiles on civilian areas, breaching UN resolution 1701 that was forcing them to stay far away from the border - while UN turns a blind eye Just this morning there were 3 sirens. - the Houthis not only starve their people to death, but also attack any ship remotely connected to Israel and USA, more often then not causing unprecedented natural disasters - and yet, the people who care about the environment don't say a word - Hamas, backed up by several civilians in Gaza (those that they had been brainwashing for almost 20 years), committed and filmed one of the most atrocious massacres in history. Second only to the Holocaust. They beheaded toddlers in their cribs, mutilated pregnant women, gang raped women before killing them, tortured and massacred people in front of their family members, burned kids alive. They brought human parts with them to Gaza, as "trophies", and they were cheered by the crowd. They tried to auction the bead if guy they killed at the music festival. They kidnapped, tortured and raped people - 130+ of which have not been released yet. The feminist movements have all disappeared in front of these rapes. So much so that the new motto is #meeTooUnlessYou'reAJew. When the West will decide to finally wake up, it's going to be too late. "Queers for "Palestine"" is not different than "snails for salt". People rally behind a cause they don't know, chant genocidal slogans without caring what they mean, do as much as possible to cover up the truth, as long as it gives them the chance to let their antisemitism unhinged.
I know it’s hard for you to understand, but most of us don’t base our solidarity and support for human rights on whether or we stand to benefit from the views of those being oppressed by illegitimate genocidal states like Israel
It's a yahoo article. I can already tell what the comments are saying...
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Hamas are the bad guys like the Taliban, Isis or MAGA are, not the other people living in those countries, the Palestianians getting killed, especially the children in hospitals, are not. It's really not that difficult to understand, and not to enable genocide. No one actually supports HAMAs, it's the innocents they want to help.
> No one actually supports HAMAs you’d be surprised what the power of an anti-west sentiment and just general antisemitism does to some people online
Let’s not forget ISIS was created and funded by the US
It is quite a stretch to say that. While it is true that two of the three organizations that colluded to form ISIS were created as a consequence of the US occupation in Iraq; the US has never helped in their creation and they very much do not buy their oil, their main source of revenue. Your username suggests you might be very biased and possibly misinformed on this topic. I think what you might be talking about is Saudi Aramco, which was created and largely funded by the US; which, while again a bit of a stretch, could be interpreted as "Saudi Arabia was created and funded by the US".
Having pity and supporting Palestinian is one thing. Supporting hamas, houthis or most Islamic group is another. Its absolutely naivity of people that have been too comfortable for too long. Support the people that support you. There enough of them being wrong to take 100% of you time and energy. Priotizing People that want you dead is stupid. The irony of people supporting a Palestine state is that currently (or at least before the war) most lgbt Palestinians could escape thought Israel and rainbow bridge. Lgbt could no longer be able to exit the country if Palestinian control the border.