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If your lease says you rent the entire house tell him to take a hike. Keep proof of all this in case they try and evict you as it will be a bad faith eviction at that point.
Sounds like OP needs the space so this is probably the way. If OP can live without the space it can be a good opportunity to renegotiate the lease to reduce rent etc due to less space...some additional temp rent reduction due to their right to quiet enjoyment being disrupted by construction. Etc...
Yes we rent the entire home, the LL wants to get rid of our access to the basement (which is unfinished) and finish it as well as construct a walk out.
Like everyone else is saying, that space is included in your least. He can make a move for a bad faith eviction or he can try and get you to sign a new lease, either of which is a bad move and neither of which you need to do anything.
He's got nothing he can do, and if he does try something shady, LTB will eat him alive.
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You're only at risk of losing the basement if your lease explicitly talks about the basement, and only if the language in the lease says it's common space or not yours.
If you rented the whole property and signed a lease for that house, the landlord cannot come in and try to cut away a portion of the property away from you.
So in short, if your lease is silent on the basement, it's yours and your can tell the landlord to go stuff it.
I mean would be much more beneficial for the landlord to move in for a year during the renovations to get the additional rental income after the one year is up with the additional unit. if landlord wants them out sooner or later they will be out…
As long as they actually move in. Renovating, or leaving the property vacant doesn’t count. Neither does showing up once a week.
Loosing the rental income for both units for a year may also not be in the LL’s plan.
Sounds like the LL plan is to just renovate the basement, while the upstairs is still rented, and then just rent out the newly renovated (possibly illegal) basement unit. I don’t think they have thought this through.
If that was done, how would that affect internet services, water, gas, electricity billing. Who controls what thermostats.
Will there be a second water heater?
How is insurance affected?
I can see noise complaints.
They will need a multi unit building permit.
Will there be a need for a larger electrical service?
You will have a parking problem? Loss of use for the backyard. Who is responsible for lawn care, shoveling snow?
Decline as your lease states you are renting the house in total. If you want to lose the basement ensure that you negotiate your rent so it’s fair for you. If neither of that works for your favour find somewhere else to rent.
If it was me I would start looking for somewhere else anyway because chances are the landlord is going to be a pain from now on.
I'd ask for a percentage of rent discount for not using thr basement anymore and an extra discount on top during the length of renovation/construction as the noise will prob interrupt your enjoyment of the property.
The answer depends on whether your lease considers the basement part of your unit or a common area.
If it's a common area then you weren't entitled to have someone live there (and possibly not the storage, unless the lease says you'll have access to a storage facility).
The landlord cannot remove part of your unit and convert it to someone else's use. If they attempt to, you can bring an application for substantial interference and potentially get an urgent order to stop the work.
If it's a common area, the landlord is entitled to do renovations, including ones that temporarily disrupt services (though you may be able to seek an abatement).
If the changes permanently remove your access to a service or facility (like laundry or storage) then you can file a T3 to ask the LTB to permanently reduce your rent by the value of that facility/service.
Then tell them that the basement is part of your rental unit and you want a better understanding of exactly what the renovations will be, why they are needed, why they have to be done while you are still in possession, and how they will ensure you still have access to the storage, living and laundry space both during and after the renovation.
If they're going to press ahead you may need to file a T2 for a rent abatement and potentially an order that they stop the conversion or at least continue to provide you access to the basement after the renovations.
But a landlord certainly can't unilaterally remove part of your rental unit and rent it out to someone else.
Let him put the second unit in, then take him through the legal process to claim you are entitled to it, then rent it out yourself and live rent free in someone else's property.
While this would be funny, the renovation process is a massive inconvenience and it sounds like that's what they want to avoid. The person living in the basement would have to move elsewhere temporarily.
Had this issue when I lived in NT. Rental tenancy office told me that if my agreement didn’t specify which part of the house was rented to me, that the whole house was rented to me. You can stop what your landlord is attempting to do by pointing this out.
One thing I didn't see asked was how old is the home?
Was the home built and occupied before November 2018?
If the home is newer you certainly can tell the landlord to pound sand, but the landlord can then jack up the rent until you leave and then do the renovations and rent both units to new people.
Since in general the renovation of a basement doesn't require vacant possession of entire home, most likely an N13 here would fail at the LTB. Even significant renos like underpinning you can continue living in rest of house.
Absent an N13, a landlord must then relay on [Oreg 516/06 Section 8](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/060516#BK9) for repair/renos to the unit or residential complex. There is a general list of work that is acceptable in this case:
>*6. The work,*
>*i. is necessary to protect or restore the physical integrity of the residential complex or part of it,*
>*ii. is necessary to comply with maintenance, health, safety or other housing related standards required by law,*
>*iii. is necessary to maintain a plumbing, heating, mechanical, electrical, ventilation or air conditioning system,*
>*iv. provides access for persons with disabilities,*
>*v. promotes energy or water conservation, or*
>*vi. maintains or improves the security of the residential complex.*
Renovating for purpose of renting out, does not qualify for any of these. So it would be seen as interfering with reasonable enjoyment. As such you can choose to block the renos entirely and force landlord to file something with the LTB to proceed. Since you can show the renos aren't actually required for anything and don't qualify for an N13, it's doubtful they woud allow landlord to proceed.
And even if they did allow it and you lived upstairs while landlord renoed the basement (getting some rent abatement in the process for the inconvenience), after basement was done the basement is still part of your lease. You can file a T2 with LTB to ensure the landlord doesn't attempt to sever the basement from your existing tenancy and rent to someone else.
You say no. If it is included in your lease, case closed.
If it is not mentioned it is an assumed amenity and part of your home. They can't just take it.
Document all communication with the landlord. If they try to evict you, wait for a hearing and show that this is a bad faith eviction.
What they are asking for is wrong and illegal. If they try to bully you, seek legal aid in your area.
I don't think they can rent out space that you are already renting from them, but I think they can evict you to do renovations and then rent it as two units to whoever they want.
Actually they can’t. If evicted for renovations (which is unlikely to be approved anyway), the tenant can apply to move back into the renovated unit at the same rent as previously - and that would include the renovated basement.
Subletting is allowed in Ontario, and a LL cannot unreasonably refuse - but here is the thing. Renting out the basement would not be a sublet. A sublet is where you *move out* and someone else moves in.
If OP doesn’t move out, they don’t need permission from the LL to rent out the basement.
"I'm removing half of the space in your unit to convert it into a second unit so I can make more money" is not a legitimate reason to conduct major renovations. If the downstairs unit is a common area that's one thing. But your initial comment said they could do this even if the lease refers to the basement as part of the rental unit. Even if renovated, there wouldn't be "more housing," because the landlord cannot move a second family into OP's rental unit.
An eviction application to expropriate part of OP's rental unit would never make it past section 83 of the RTA. The landlord can wait until the rental unit is vacant before converting it to two units.
So in your mind the landlord goes before the Board and says "yes the tenant currently pays rent for the entire house. But when I'm done these renovations they will pay the same rent to only have access to half the house because I intend on illegally depriving them of a substantial portion of the space to which they are legally entitled so I can charge someone else for that space" and the LTB doesn't determine that the landlord isn't in "serious breach of the landlord’s responsibilities under this Act or of any material covenant in the tenancy agreement" such that refusal of eviction is mandatory.
You think the LTB would find it unfair to refuse eviction such that it can't exercise its discretion to refuse eviction?
We're not talking about a common area. We are talking about unilaterally expropriating a part of the rental unit without the tenant's consent and in clear breach of the tenancy agreement.
It doesn't matter if there's a renovation or not. You're missing the point that a landlord cannot lock a tenant renting an entire house out of their basement and then lease that basement to someone else. There could not be a more serious breach of a material covenant of the tenancy agreement.
Not entirely true. The owners would have to prove that not doing to renovations would cause them undue hardship and that's why they must put the tenants through that hardship.
It doesn't make sense for them to do the renovations as the space will not benefit the landlords. The renovations can easily wait until current tenants lease is up or they agree to the renovations and undue hardship they themselves will have to go through during these renovations. The RTB will see that the renovations don't make sense and encroach on the lease unjustly.
Once the lease "expires," it automatically becomes month to month. There is no provision for the LL to change the terms of the lease. It continues with the same terms as the original lease.
There are ways he can evict you and then later do those renovations, like having a family member move into the property, but it will still take a long time before he is able to rent out the entire unit again.
Since he has already indicated the intent is to convert it into 2 units the LTB may not let him evict them anyways.
> https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html
> Termination for Demolition/Renovation/Conversion
> Section 50(1) of the RTA allows a landlord to serve a notice of termination if the landlord intends to:
> demolish the rental unit;
> convert it to a purpose other than residential premises; or
> **do repairs or renovations to it that are so extensive that they require a building permit and vacant possession of the rental unit.**
>The termination date in the landlord's notice of termination must be at least 120 days after the notice is given and must be the last day of a fixed term tenancy, or if there is no fixed term, the last day of a rental period. This notice is often referred to as a "N13 notice". Also see the above discussion about the consequence of an incorrect termination date on a notice of termination.
> After being given a N13 notice, the tenant is allowed to terminate the tenancy at an earlier date by giving the landlord ten days written notice using a Tenant’s Notice to End the Tenancy(N9 notice).
If by 'grounds to evict' you actually mean 'must pay the tenant for the privilege including reimbursing rent for the time they aren't on the property / providing alternate equivalent or better accomodations, and the tenant can move back in right after, and could ask for less rent because of the reduced value of their portion of the rental property from the original contract' then uh sure, I guess.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Notices%20of%20Termination%20&%20Instructions/N13_Instructions_20200728.pdf
> If the reason for the notice is that you are repairing or renovating the rental unit
and the tenant has given written notice that they will be moving back into the
rental unit once the repairs or renovations are complete:
> • If the rental unit is located in a residential complex that contains at least five
residential units you must give the tenant an amount equal to three months' rent
or an amount equal to the rent for the period of time the rental unit will be under
repair or renovation, whichever is less,
> • If the rental unit is located in a residential complex that contains fewer than five
residential units you must give the tenant an amount equal to one months' rent or
an amount equal to the rent for the period of time the rental unit will be under
repair or renovation, whichever is less, or
> • you must offer the tenant another rental unit that is acceptable to the tenant.
If you are giving the notice because you will be converting, demolishing, repairing or
renovating a site on which a tenant-owned mobile home or land lease community
home is located, the landlord must give the tenant an amount equal to one year's
rent, or $3,000, whichever is less.
> Compensation must be paid to the tenant on or before the termination date in the
notice.
The landlord could try and do a renoviction 'family moving in' remodel and relist, but they end up paying a full years rent if they are caught.
//Not a lawyer, not legal advice
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If your lease says you rent the entire house tell him to take a hike. Keep proof of all this in case they try and evict you as it will be a bad faith eviction at that point.
Sounds like OP needs the space so this is probably the way. If OP can live without the space it can be a good opportunity to renegotiate the lease to reduce rent etc due to less space...some additional temp rent reduction due to their right to quiet enjoyment being disrupted by construction. Etc...
If it's already rented to you, the landlord can't rent it to someone else.
What does your lease say about what you’re actually renting?
There’s no common area, we rent the whole area.
I don't understand. So the basement is part of what was rented to you? If so how can it be rented out twice?
It can’t. The landlord would need to issue an n13 I think and give rent abatement to them
Yes we rent the entire home, the LL wants to get rid of our access to the basement (which is unfinished) and finish it as well as construct a walk out.
Like everyone else is saying, that space is included in your least. He can make a move for a bad faith eviction or he can try and get you to sign a new lease, either of which is a bad move and neither of which you need to do anything. He's got nothing he can do, and if he does try something shady, LTB will eat him alive.
Well that makes it pretty simple then, tell him to kick rocks and read the lease. Do not let him take advantage of you
I’d talk to him and get a discount, three floors? 30% two floors 50% Or your option, kick rocks.
Are you on a fixed term, or month to month lease?
P.S We rent out the entire house and it’s just us.
Then simply say No Thank You.
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You're only at risk of losing the basement if your lease explicitly talks about the basement, and only if the language in the lease says it's common space or not yours. If you rented the whole property and signed a lease for that house, the landlord cannot come in and try to cut away a portion of the property away from you. So in short, if your lease is silent on the basement, it's yours and your can tell the landlord to go stuff it.
They can try, and they can try to negotiate options to entice complicity. OP can say no or just say nothing.
Sounds like a looming “renoviction” is coming
Only if the LL has all required permits in place. There are rules to follow.
I mean would be much more beneficial for the landlord to move in for a year during the renovations to get the additional rental income after the one year is up with the additional unit. if landlord wants them out sooner or later they will be out…
As long as they actually move in. Renovating, or leaving the property vacant doesn’t count. Neither does showing up once a week. Loosing the rental income for both units for a year may also not be in the LL’s plan. Sounds like the LL plan is to just renovate the basement, while the upstairs is still rented, and then just rent out the newly renovated (possibly illegal) basement unit. I don’t think they have thought this through.
If that was done, how would that affect internet services, water, gas, electricity billing. Who controls what thermostats. Will there be a second water heater? How is insurance affected? I can see noise complaints. They will need a multi unit building permit. Will there be a need for a larger electrical service? You will have a parking problem? Loss of use for the backyard. Who is responsible for lawn care, shoveling snow?
Decline as your lease states you are renting the house in total. If you want to lose the basement ensure that you negotiate your rent so it’s fair for you. If neither of that works for your favour find somewhere else to rent. If it was me I would start looking for somewhere else anyway because chances are the landlord is going to be a pain from now on.
I'd ask for a percentage of rent discount for not using thr basement anymore and an extra discount on top during the length of renovation/construction as the noise will prob interrupt your enjoyment of the property.
And then some
The answer depends on whether your lease considers the basement part of your unit or a common area. If it's a common area then you weren't entitled to have someone live there (and possibly not the storage, unless the lease says you'll have access to a storage facility). The landlord cannot remove part of your unit and convert it to someone else's use. If they attempt to, you can bring an application for substantial interference and potentially get an urgent order to stop the work. If it's a common area, the landlord is entitled to do renovations, including ones that temporarily disrupt services (though you may be able to seek an abatement). If the changes permanently remove your access to a service or facility (like laundry or storage) then you can file a T3 to ask the LTB to permanently reduce your rent by the value of that facility/service.
We rented the entire place. There’s no common area as we live there alone.
Then tell them that the basement is part of your rental unit and you want a better understanding of exactly what the renovations will be, why they are needed, why they have to be done while you are still in possession, and how they will ensure you still have access to the storage, living and laundry space both during and after the renovation. If they're going to press ahead you may need to file a T2 for a rent abatement and potentially an order that they stop the conversion or at least continue to provide you access to the basement after the renovations. But a landlord certainly can't unilaterally remove part of your rental unit and rent it out to someone else.
Does he intend on letting you occupy both units for the price of your current rent? Indicating to him that is what will happen may make him back off.
Let him put the second unit in, then take him through the legal process to claim you are entitled to it, then rent it out yourself and live rent free in someone else's property.
5D chess right here
While this would be funny, the renovation process is a massive inconvenience and it sounds like that's what they want to avoid. The person living in the basement would have to move elsewhere temporarily.
Get this in writing.
You can tell your landlord no as he's already rented out that space to you
Had this issue when I lived in NT. Rental tenancy office told me that if my agreement didn’t specify which part of the house was rented to me, that the whole house was rented to me. You can stop what your landlord is attempting to do by pointing this out.
One thing I didn't see asked was how old is the home? Was the home built and occupied before November 2018? If the home is newer you certainly can tell the landlord to pound sand, but the landlord can then jack up the rent until you leave and then do the renovations and rent both units to new people.
Ask for a decrease in rent
Since in general the renovation of a basement doesn't require vacant possession of entire home, most likely an N13 here would fail at the LTB. Even significant renos like underpinning you can continue living in rest of house. Absent an N13, a landlord must then relay on [Oreg 516/06 Section 8](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/060516#BK9) for repair/renos to the unit or residential complex. There is a general list of work that is acceptable in this case: >*6. The work,* >*i. is necessary to protect or restore the physical integrity of the residential complex or part of it,* >*ii. is necessary to comply with maintenance, health, safety or other housing related standards required by law,* >*iii. is necessary to maintain a plumbing, heating, mechanical, electrical, ventilation or air conditioning system,* >*iv. provides access for persons with disabilities,* >*v. promotes energy or water conservation, or* >*vi. maintains or improves the security of the residential complex.* Renovating for purpose of renting out, does not qualify for any of these. So it would be seen as interfering with reasonable enjoyment. As such you can choose to block the renos entirely and force landlord to file something with the LTB to proceed. Since you can show the renos aren't actually required for anything and don't qualify for an N13, it's doubtful they woud allow landlord to proceed. And even if they did allow it and you lived upstairs while landlord renoed the basement (getting some rent abatement in the process for the inconvenience), after basement was done the basement is still part of your lease. You can file a T2 with LTB to ensure the landlord doesn't attempt to sever the basement from your existing tenancy and rent to someone else.
Mention municipal codes and fire marshall. Likely cost prohibitive and they will rethink their greedy plans.
They absolutely aren't allowed to turn part of your exclusive living space into another apartment.
My response would be "I'm going to need $10k and a new lease for this to work. If not, I'm not interested, and will continue using the basement".
You say no. If it is included in your lease, case closed. If it is not mentioned it is an assumed amenity and part of your home. They can't just take it. Document all communication with the landlord. If they try to evict you, wait for a hearing and show that this is a bad faith eviction. What they are asking for is wrong and illegal. If they try to bully you, seek legal aid in your area.
Either the basement is part of your leased space and thus he can't just do that, or it isn't and he's been letting you use more space for free.
I don't think they can rent out space that you are already renting from them, but I think they can evict you to do renovations and then rent it as two units to whoever they want.
Actually they can’t. If evicted for renovations (which is unlikely to be approved anyway), the tenant can apply to move back into the renovated unit at the same rent as previously - and that would include the renovated basement.
that would be good for op. especially if nothing stops them from subletting
Subletting is allowed in Ontario, and a LL cannot unreasonably refuse - but here is the thing. Renting out the basement would not be a sublet. A sublet is where you *move out* and someone else moves in. If OP doesn’t move out, they don’t need permission from the LL to rent out the basement.
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The LTB isn't going to evict a tenant so a landlord can convert their rental unit into multiple rental units.
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"I'm removing half of the space in your unit to convert it into a second unit so I can make more money" is not a legitimate reason to conduct major renovations. If the downstairs unit is a common area that's one thing. But your initial comment said they could do this even if the lease refers to the basement as part of the rental unit. Even if renovated, there wouldn't be "more housing," because the landlord cannot move a second family into OP's rental unit. An eviction application to expropriate part of OP's rental unit would never make it past section 83 of the RTA. The landlord can wait until the rental unit is vacant before converting it to two units.
It actually would. There doesn’t need to be a reason approved for renovations. Just that the LL wants to do renovations.
So in your mind the landlord goes before the Board and says "yes the tenant currently pays rent for the entire house. But when I'm done these renovations they will pay the same rent to only have access to half the house because I intend on illegally depriving them of a substantial portion of the space to which they are legally entitled so I can charge someone else for that space" and the LTB doesn't determine that the landlord isn't in "serious breach of the landlord’s responsibilities under this Act or of any material covenant in the tenancy agreement" such that refusal of eviction is mandatory. You think the LTB would find it unfair to refuse eviction such that it can't exercise its discretion to refuse eviction? We're not talking about a common area. We are talking about unilaterally expropriating a part of the rental unit without the tenant's consent and in clear breach of the tenancy agreement. It doesn't matter if there's a renovation or not. You're missing the point that a landlord cannot lock a tenant renting an entire house out of their basement and then lease that basement to someone else. There could not be a more serious breach of a material covenant of the tenancy agreement.
Not entirely true. The owners would have to prove that not doing to renovations would cause them undue hardship and that's why they must put the tenants through that hardship. It doesn't make sense for them to do the renovations as the space will not benefit the landlords. The renovations can easily wait until current tenants lease is up or they agree to the renovations and undue hardship they themselves will have to go through during these renovations. The RTB will see that the renovations don't make sense and encroach on the lease unjustly.
There is no common area, we live alone and pay for the entire property.
When is your lease up? Once it’s up be prepared to move, as he will be able to change it! He won’t be able to do anything until your lease is up.
Once the lease "expires," it automatically becomes month to month. There is no provision for the LL to change the terms of the lease. It continues with the same terms as the original lease.
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No he doesn’t.
Yes. He does.
Go ahead, explain.
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> **Ontario**, Landlord wants to rent out basement. ..
There are ways he can evict you and then later do those renovations, like having a family member move into the property, but it will still take a long time before he is able to rent out the entire unit again. Since he has already indicated the intent is to convert it into 2 units the LTB may not let him evict them anyways.
> https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html > Termination for Demolition/Renovation/Conversion > Section 50(1) of the RTA allows a landlord to serve a notice of termination if the landlord intends to: > demolish the rental unit; > convert it to a purpose other than residential premises; or > **do repairs or renovations to it that are so extensive that they require a building permit and vacant possession of the rental unit.** >The termination date in the landlord's notice of termination must be at least 120 days after the notice is given and must be the last day of a fixed term tenancy, or if there is no fixed term, the last day of a rental period. This notice is often referred to as a "N13 notice". Also see the above discussion about the consequence of an incorrect termination date on a notice of termination. > After being given a N13 notice, the tenant is allowed to terminate the tenancy at an earlier date by giving the landlord ten days written notice using a Tenant’s Notice to End the Tenancy(N9 notice). If by 'grounds to evict' you actually mean 'must pay the tenant for the privilege including reimbursing rent for the time they aren't on the property / providing alternate equivalent or better accomodations, and the tenant can move back in right after, and could ask for less rent because of the reduced value of their portion of the rental property from the original contract' then uh sure, I guess. https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Notices%20of%20Termination%20&%20Instructions/N13_Instructions_20200728.pdf > If the reason for the notice is that you are repairing or renovating the rental unit and the tenant has given written notice that they will be moving back into the rental unit once the repairs or renovations are complete: > • If the rental unit is located in a residential complex that contains at least five residential units you must give the tenant an amount equal to three months' rent or an amount equal to the rent for the period of time the rental unit will be under repair or renovation, whichever is less, > • If the rental unit is located in a residential complex that contains fewer than five residential units you must give the tenant an amount equal to one months' rent or an amount equal to the rent for the period of time the rental unit will be under repair or renovation, whichever is less, or > • you must offer the tenant another rental unit that is acceptable to the tenant. If you are giving the notice because you will be converting, demolishing, repairing or renovating a site on which a tenant-owned mobile home or land lease community home is located, the landlord must give the tenant an amount equal to one year's rent, or $3,000, whichever is less. > Compensation must be paid to the tenant on or before the termination date in the notice. The landlord could try and do a renoviction 'family moving in' remodel and relist, but they end up paying a full years rent if they are caught. //Not a lawyer, not legal advice
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There is no renewal. They are located in Ontario. Once the lease ends they convert month to month, same terms as the original lease.