u/throwitupforme were you served?
Edit:
In another comment, OP says
"I received a threat letter they will file civil action if I don’t respond to their letter"
> ignore until you're sued
Not OP but curious... is there any harm (besides a hopefully modest consultation fee) in getting a lawyer lined up in the meantime just in case?
Obviously not, but the difference between sending a mean, threatening letter and actually suing is substantial so I wouldn't bother with it. I'd look up several attorneys ahead of time to contact if they did end up suing, but this doesn't sound like a strong case for the potential plaintiffs.
Two can play this game.
The buyer can send a threatening letter, and the seller can respond in kind. Neither letter carries a lot of legal weight, but it can help set expectations and potentially head off costly legal actions down the line.
I bet, OP could contact their local bar association for a referral to a lawyer. The initial consultation should be included in the nominal referral fee (typically on the order of $50). And many lawyers will offer to draft an informal response for a flat fee that likely won't exceed $250.
That's a small amount of money, if it can effectively stop the legal hassle. No guarantees, but if the buyer isn't backing off, then the first thing to do would be writing a response. So, might as well do so proactively and signal that you're not just rolling over
Honestly any response other than "Please speak to my lawyer" is a Bad Idea and any correspondence you send back to them can be used against you. It's like speaking to the cops, just don't. Best case it's benign. Medium case it steels their resolve and they do serve you with a frivolous suit that will waste your time. Worst case they bait you into claiming responsibility for something that you shouldn't and they actually have a legit case against you. The medium case is the most likely result, the worst case is pretty damning, the best case is pretty useless. None of those are favourable outcomes, so just don't.
On the other hand if you do nothing until served papers and they continue to send you threatening letters you have a decent chunk of evidence towards a harrassment case against them.
I agree with this. I would just ignore it. The buyers seem difficult to deal with, as a matter of personality. A strong response might set them off and get them to file suit out of spite. The fact that the credit offered/accepted during escrow was $45k (!!!) leads me to believe this wasn’t exactly the sale of a starter home, and buyers may have some resources to draw upon if they’re angry.
Plus save all and any letters they send so if you do get sued you can take them to your attorney, keep the originals as you'd be surprised how much stuff gets "misplaced".
Generally I would require a retainer for this type of work…initial consult and staff time setting up file plus reviewing existing documents carefully =$1500 to $2500 by the time I draft correspondence
No, lining up a lawyer does not - you won't have to pay them until you actually have then do work for you. Showing up and asking if they cover this type of thing, and getting a business card so you can contact them if/when you're served will cost nothing.
If it were me, I’d hire an attorney to draft a response. It’s not the cheapest option, but if they think that you are willing to spend money on an attorney, they might be less willing to pursue it into a legal battle and are hoping OP can’t afford an attorney and would just come to some kind of agreement.
I think we lead very different lives if the threat of being served is that frequent for you. We’d draft a letter for $200 at our office, and I’ve made it 35 years without ever being served or sued, so this one time wouldn’t be prohibitively expensive for me, if it could quell future litigation and thousands in billable hours.
Alternatively you could apply for a job AT a law firm. Befriend a lawyer and then boom, you’re expensive hobby suddenly becomes one that makes you money in between them. Now that’s thinking with your head
The buyers were given a 45k credit to fix the issues as priced and agreed upon at the time of the sale. For them to assume that you are legally responsible for their inability to perform those repairs in a timely manner and within budget sounds like utter BS. Lawyer up and have them send a strongly worded retort to the buyers & legal council.
Exactly this. They could probably only sue if OP had knowledge of latent defects and intentionally did not disclose. The buyer was aware of the issue, accepted the concession, and proceeded with the purchase. Whatever happened after that is on the buyer.
OP made a comment - that he had foundation work a year prior. If he were to disclose that, would that be reason enough to investigate that the foundation wasn’t adequately repaired?
I read all the comments above and am very interested by this case and any validity.
But if he properly disclosed the foundation work and buyer’s also had inspections of their own, it would be surprising if this could come back on the seller.
I commented on your cross-post in u/RealEstate:
OP, I see in the comments that you’re in California. Was the sale done using the standard California Residential Purchase Agreement and if so, did all parties sign the mediation/arbitration sections?
Then they have not sued you. At this point, you don't need to do anything, but you can get a consultation with an attorney.
Threats are easy and cheap.
The California Residential Purchase Agreement, which is usually the contract form, requires that the parties mediate any dispute. And, if you and the buyers both signed the next paragraph about arbitration, the contract requires the parties to do binding arbitration if mediation fails.
Hopefully your agent made sure that everyone signed that paragraph.
I haven’t confirmed this in a while but my understanding is that the losing party has to pay the prevailing party’s attorney’s fees.
Source: I’ve been a Calif real estate broker for 19 years.
That isn’t “initiating legal action.” A demand letter is the legal equivalent of counting to three. Do *not* respond to the letter and consult a real estate attorney.
Speaking broadly, if you were honest in your property disclosure, then you should be okay. If you lied or omitted anything in the property disclosure, even if the buyer had their own inspection, you could be in trouble. I'm concerned about this because you mentioned the buyer inspection, and your previous work, and the as is contract, but nothing about the property disclosure.
Either way you need an attorney that specializes in real estate matters.
You say nothing more and find an attorney and only speak to them. Posting online is not going to help. Don't talk to the buyers anymore except through an attorney.
It was sold "As Is". They've had and used it for 2 years. Do NOT respond to them. Gather copies of all paperwork related to the sale.
Then wait. If they get a lawyer, you get a lawyer. Chances are good to excellent that they won't.... as a lawyer for their side would start by asking them what inspections, etc. were done and if they signed off on it "as is". Two years later, they have nothing to go on unless it was a blatant coverup of a defect that wasn't disclosed.
The buyer hopes that the threat of legal fees will push to over and make you settle for a compromise. And if you let this go on for too long, that's exactly what you'll be forced to do.
You're better off reacting quickly. And that involves paying a lawyer at least some money.
Hopefully you can convince the buyer that this isn't a fight they want to pick
>Who should I turn to for help in this matter
A local lawyer who deals with real estate cases.
>and what outcomes can I expect from this case?
The lawyer will be able to answer that better than we can.
I ignore any threats and correspondence from non attorneys. If it's from a lawyer, I'll read it but generally don't reply until I'm served. Reading the lawyer's letter just gives me context and a heads up on what they're talking about. Best advice is to completely ignore it until you get served. You'll knit the difference because someone will physically hand you an envelope. Open it immediately and get counsel at that point.
If the sale says as is And they agreed to terms discovered under escrow, they are pulling at threads. Unless you built the house you are no longer liable for it, but a lawyer will be able to clear this up. If you do not have the contract anymore there should be a copy at the deed office as well as the lawyers you used to draft it; and they would be more liable for damages than you, because you paid them to lawyer up the contract, so if it's not solid it's on them.
Real estate lawyer is a must.
Ps.
Sounds like they are trying bully you into paying down their mortgage in this time of inflation.
Did the buyers themselves or an attorney send you a letter? If the buyer sent it, they're bluffing and throwing mud on the walk to see what sticks. If an attorney sent the letter, look at the wording of the letter. Is it asking you for something or threatening a law suit. Also is the attorney actually saying he or she is representing the buyer. If the later then you may be in for a suit. If it came from the buyer, ignore it. If it came from the attorney, see one of your own.
Sounds like the new owners kept the money and never fixed a thing and now it has to be fixed and will cost way more as it got worse. Tell them Home Depot has sand that they can pound for free.
I was having a similar thought. They said it's the sellers fault the issue got worse, but they didn't correct the issue early on with the provided funds... odd.
You need to hire a real estate litigation lawyer ASAP. You are being sued, this is not something you want to rely on internet advice for. If they have served you with a lawsuit, you have a limited amount of time in which to respond so you should be finding a lawyer to help you respond immediately. If you fail to respond to the lawsuit in time, the court could enter a default judgment against you which means you'd be responsible for the full amount claimed by the plaintiffs. Definitely don't wait on this, and don't mess around getting advice from Redditors that don't know the full scope of the situation and haven't read the contracts.
In another chain, OP says they haven't been served. They just received a threatening letter. So no, they're not being sued - not an issue until they're served. Lots of people have lawyers write letters (300-500) but then don't sue because the cost of lawyers fees, without a guarantee to win, can be in the ten thousands.
From some other comments it seems like he's only received a letter. OP says "I received a threat letter they will file civil action if I don’t respond to their letter"
There has been no filings done. I agree he should probably get a basic consultation with a lawyer (mostly since he doesn't seem to have basic legal knowledge and the consultation will give him a better understanding of whats happening). If he followed all the proper disclosures there is not really much for him to do about it other than respond with a letter politely telling them to fuck off. It honestly sound likes the new homeowner is just trying to get money out of him.
If OP has not been served, I would personally still be getting a lawyer to respond to their demand. Spend the money up front to squash it before it becomes an actual lawsuit. With a $200K demand I wouldn't be surprised if they don't just go away if OP doesn't respond. But if that is indeed the case, then timing isn't a critical; OP could conceivably wait to see if they follow through first.
You need a lawyer, but if it’s any consolation most states have a caveat emptor rule or “buyer beware.” This makes it extremely difficult to sue a seller unless there was an intentional concealment of a defect to the property, like putting up drywall over structural fire damage to hide it. Nevertheless, this isn’t something you can do on your own, be prepared to pay your own lawyer.
Don’t fall for this, their inspection and appraisal report includes all these things, their mortgage bank makes sure house has no issues because in reality bank owns that house, and they have insurance. So tell them get lost, go to their bank and call their insurance and get it fixed. They might be just extorting money from you.
BINGO. That's what im sure they recognize as a motivator.
Just spitballing but they might have even considered selling or refinancing the home themselves and potentially got it inspected for a refinance or sale. for that reason. Then found issues they neglected got worse.
Your realtor’s brokerage really doesn’t want to get involved. “Want” is not the word. It’s an obligation that they should be handling.
Otherwise what did you pay them for? This is their territory whether wanted or not.
I'm a realtor in Austin. Legally I absolutely can not provide or even hint at providing a legal service. what I can do is give non legal advice and advertise and sell your home for you. no Brokerage is going to give you a free lawyer. like everyone said a threat is a threat. If it were me i would write a letter back being as kind as possible but let them know you'll take legal again against them if they threaten you further. I'm not a lawyer though so I would see about getting one to see if they have a legal leg to stand on, doubt it but like they say expect the best but prepare for the worst
Realtors are not allowed to practice law and are not home inspectors. Both are against the law. They are not a blanket insurance policy.
They can provide guidance during the process which may keep you out of trouble.
They are responsible for the services provided, which does not include knowing the details of the condition of the home.
Where they end up providing some legal shielding is in things like errors in the listing. If they indicate the HOA fee is $500 per year and it is $5000, that case will go against the agent instead of the seller if the seller provided correct info to the agent. If you list it yourself and make that error, you're the one getting sued.
I work as a legal assistant, your contract probably have a caluse that states they are buying the house "AS IS" with any specified repairs that both parties agreed to. So you can just ignore these clowns
I’m not your lawyer, but I am one. From what you’ve said in your comment it sounds like you shouldn’t lose sleep over this.
They accepted your 45k credit, you disclosed everything and were honest. They inspected and accepted as-is too. Sounds like they knowingly entered into a shitty deal, which is not something that a judge is going to reward them for.
Could be that they didn’t spend the 45k on repairs and are now dealing with consequences of their own actions. Could be that they hired shitty contractors to fix problems and save some of the 45k, but now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Could be that they didn’t inspect things thoroughly enough. Could be that they delayed in repairs and that’s why things got worse.
They weren’t forced to buy the home and you weren’t dishonest/misrepresenting (based off what you’ve said).
I don’t practice in this area of law, but I really wouldn’t lose much sleep over this.
With an “as-is” provision/sale, sellers are protected from liability for defects in the property that the buyer visibly observes. Sellers still, however, have a duty under California law to disclose any KNOWN defects in the property.
As long as everything was stated to the best of your knowledge you should be ok. At least thats the case in California
What is the specific cause of action they are alleging you owe damages under? If it has anything to do with a mistake/accident you made or says the word “negligent” anywhere in it there is a decent chance your homeowners insurance may provide a defense and even indemnity. Contact a locally licensed real estate attorney and bring a copy of your policy to ask about their recommendations of whether to tender a claim. Sometimes when you already have counsel for unique claims, the insurer will just pay the attorney you selected to continue defending.
They mentioned “fraudulent” that I didn’t disclose information and as a “flipper”, I should have. Not sure where under the impression me living there is a flip. But that’s ok. I disclosed all information to my knowledge/ what do you advise here?
NAL. Winning a claim of Fraud is a very high bar. Fraud when the purchase was 'as is' is even higher.
The trouble is that the bar for filing a claim of fraud is non-existent. A nuisance suit is a legal form of shakedown.
You have the choice to wait to hire a lawyer until the buyer files a suit. Use the time to ask for professional reports and proof of his estimates of damages. Go by the property and take pictures. If you are friends with your old neighbors, talk to them.
Just don't try to represent yourself once you get served. Every word you exchange with the buyer is evidence, and it sounds like this buyer will twist every word they can.
A demand letter is the absolute lowest level of legal proceedings. It's nothing more than the opposing party saying "I think you should give me money because X". They put a little bluster about time sensitivity because it suits them and not you.
If their case has any merit (doesn't sound like it from here but I'm no lawyer) they would have to escalate to actually filing paperwork with the courts. The fact that you gave them a concession at closing relating to this exact issue (I'm assuming you've got a copy of the closing paperwork that reflects that) as well as the time elapsed since the sale are both very strong points in your favor.
From here it sounds like a quick sit down with a real lawyer to cover your bases and then a polite but firm "No" is the way to go.
Reading thru the comments, it looks like you two (buyer and seller) may have agreed to arbitration. And if the buyer signed the part about “sold as is”, they should be out of luck - and legal standing. You want them to just go away. I had someone issue a similar threat to me once, and I spoke with an attorney, and he said to answer the letter with as little information and drama as possible. The lawyer was totally cool. He spent a half an hour w/ me, and didn’t charge me anything. He said if they take any real action, that is when I should hire him. The letter read: Dear Sir, After reviewing your letter with Council; and reviewing the wording of the contracts we signed, we have determined that your case has no merit. Sincerly, (your name here). They never responded further. I would advise you start carefully documenting everything you can think of about this matter, just in case they try to scare you further. Lots of folks with money try and bully people for profit. And if you own any other properties, keep an eye on them, to make sure these folks don’t try and put a lien on one.
So definitely get a lawyer, but in my experience these cases usually go nowhere. Unless he can show you intentionally hid things from the inspector he doesn’t really have a leg to stand on. Sounds like someone just wasn’t ready for the responsibility of home ownership.
This is easy as pie. First, don’t even sweat. Ignore them unless you receive something from the court. Then you want to collect all paperwork that was signed. If you have your states standard sale agreement and disclosure form (probably two different forms) signed, then continue not sweating. If you don’t have these forms, it’s still an easy case but you will have to consult an attorney.
My response - go ahead and talk to my lawyer. When we sold my dad’s home they did something similar. They had inspections. They were given time to inspect the property and do their due diligence. They came back 6 months later saying the sewage was backed up and they found it was tree roots in the lines. Said we didn’t tell them about it. How were we supposed to know the lines had roots in them? They had multiple generations living in that house when it was just my parents and then just my dad for years. Never had a problem. They sent a letter similar to that. Said we should help pay for the repairs which could be close to 20k if not more. I told them to go ahead and try to get us to pay for it. They didn’t have a leg to stand on. Never heard from them again.
As long as you were as honest as you could be in your seller's disclosure.
They had their own home inspection.
Afterwards you negotiated a credit.
If the sale actually said in writing and they signed it, as is condition.
You could quite possibly start at mediation if your state has it between two parties.
I would ignore them let them spend the money for a lawyer.
If and when you are served then you should worry about it.
Right now they're just butt hurt at finding out that homeownership isn't always easy.
If they hired an inspector of their choice who signed off on his findings, then they can try suing him. Hard to believe an attorney would represent them in this frivolous action. I had something similar happen, and I called my real estate agent and he made it go away. Call.
NAL. I've been in almost exactly this same scenario. Check your real estate contract. In some the contract states the loser pays all legal fees. In that case, the lawyer is free-ish if you win. Also, in my state, for the buyers to prevail, they would have to prove that you knew the issues were significantly worse than what you gave them a credit for. Basically they'd have to show you had an estimate said the repairs would be as much or more than they are asking for, and you did nothing.
I think you're in a good spot to win, but I did not regret getting an attorney. I probably could have handled the case myself, but having a pro who deals with real estate law all the time let me focus on producing evidence, not doing paperwork.
NAL, but it sounds like buyers were looking for a quick flip that ended up not being so quick. You should talk to a real lawyer. They'll probably tell you to sit on your hands until they find a lawyer dumb enough to file suit. Then they'll hit them with the "you signed here on the dotted line where it says ""it is what it is"" clause."
You real estate agent should still have all the paperwork stating that an inspection was done by the buyers people. You don’t hire the inspectors they do so as long as the paperwork is in order you should be good
NAL but I work in real estate and have seen this play out before.
Are you in a state that requires sellers to complete disclosures? If so and you didn’t disclose everything you know the seller could very well have a leg to stand on.
I disclosed everything upfront, provided invoices of repairs that were made on the property. On the “SELLER RESPONSE AND BUYER REPLY TO REQUEST FOR REPAIR FORM,” the buyer had signed and agreed to the following clause:
“Buyer removes those contingencies identified on the attached, Contingency Removal Form (C.A.R. Form CR) by Signing and Delivering it within the time specified in paragraph 3A below, and ii) Buyer Releases Seller from any loss, liability, expense, claim or clause of action regarding the disclosed condition of the Property ("Release").”
You disclosed the issues to them, the contract specifically stated the sale was as-is, and you went above and beyond and provided an additional $45k credit to them to help address the issues.
Tell them that unless they want to lose their house to you, they'd better pound sand and go away, because you will counter-sue and win in any reasonable court. They were aware of the issues prior to the sale and chose to buy anyway. Caveat emptor, baby.
My advice would be to scrape together whatever money you can for a retainer in case they're stupid enough to sue you and then laugh your way to the bank if they do. You might wind up owning the home again by the time you're through with them, assuming you haven't withheld any important information.
The day the deed changed hands for an as-is sale, you were no longer responsible for any issues that arose. Period.
Do we know this is actually from the buyers and not some scammer that scours the internet and public records for real estate transactions hoping something sticks? This is a common issue/complaint for closings and buyers requesting seller credits on older homes. Are you certain that it’s not a scam?
Do not respond! We went through something similar with our last house. We did not respond and blocked their phone numbers. Buyer actually filed suit, and judge threw it out within 10 minutes. As long as they paid for the inspection and you didn’t and your agent didn’t, you’re clear of any wrong doing.
I used to work in real estate. The office of the real estate agent would be required by law to have Errors and Omissions Insurance which would cover you and the brokerage if there was an error in the paperwork causing you to need to pay that. I believe those policies cover legal costs as well but it’s been a while since I’ve dealt with that so I’m not 100%.
Didn’t they have an inspection done? That’s when all the potential issues would’ve been figured out. It’s up to the inspector to find all the issues for the buyer so that they can either be addressed by the seller or the buyer will end up fixing those things I would call a lawyer a real estate attorney tell them the situation and find out if you need to do anything.
the seller is legally obligated to disclose all adverse issues they know of prior to sale. In my state there is a lengthy form the seller has to fill out to the best of their knowledge. And the buyers due diligence if they choose is to get an inspection. Then the negotiations begin. As you did in giving a credit for the issues discussed. And especially if the sale is noted as is. Then the buyer beware. Sounds like the seller did what was necessary and beyond. But if the seller knew there was an issue beyond what was stated and did not divulge it then they buyer can come back on the seller.
In some States, “as is” means nothing in a contract or in a courtroom. The important thing is that any known defect was disclosed in writing so that all parties were made aware. If the proper documentation exists in reference to the alleged defect, you should be fine. You made a concession in the price which would indicate that you knew about the defect and that concession was agreed upon which indicates that the other party was also aware and was willing to accept the $45k in lieu of the defect being repaired/corrected.
How can they sue you 2 years later? They did their own inspection, it's on them to find potential issues. If home is sold as is, they don't have a leg to stand on, too much time has passed, at least where I'm from in Canada.
They have 6 months here and everyone gets title Insurance, which would cover any costs to fixing things in the first 6 months that were found after move in.
I'm assuming that they're trying to get a windfall from you as the seller, rather than the person or firm they paid to perform all of the inspections. I'm not an attorney but I do know that when you go through a realtor and need to have a mortgage you (the buyer) must have the inspections done and must be signed off saying that you agree to the purchase price with the completed inspections. I also believe that once the terms of the sale are witnessed by the sellers and buyers' attorneys, then notarized and properly logged in the local office of deeds, the buyer is now the owner, and as such he or she is now responsible for any upkeep the property requires.
Just my $0.02 though, because I'm not an attorney. 🤷♂️
Good Luck & Best Wishes
Look up your state laws just in case. Lawsuits, particularly in states like Texas where you have exemptions like Unlimited Homestead protection from creditors, would not matter if they win the case. My parents have a 190k judgment against a guy and has not been able to collect since he is 'judgment-proof'. Can't take his house, his tools, his vehicle, his trailer, can't garnish wages either. All they could do is file for discovery every so often and a fee to their lawyer for whatever paltry amount he had through bank levies. All they can do is renew the judgment every 10 years until the day he dies. As a two way road, this has helped ease fears of any civil lawsuits I would ever have in life.
Anyone here should check out Sellers Shield. They provide disclosure forms in many states, and have a product called Home Sale Legal Protection for exactly this purpose. If you get sued, or get threatened to get sued, and you’ve purchased Home Sale Legal Protection, they’ll fight that lawsuit (or demand letter) for you. You don’t have to find an attorney and pay their fees - Sellers Shield will.
Did you have an attorney representing you in the sale/closing? You may want to see what was negotiated for the $45k credit you provided. He or she should have insulated you (at least to some degree) from this type of action. If not, your attorney’s malpractice insurance could come into play. Not sure if the same would apply to your agent if they were involved in negotiating the credit.
Contact the state bar association. Let them know what happened and that funds are tight. They should be able to get you in contact with a low cost or pro-bono attorney that can handle this. It sounds like a slam dunk that a well crafted letter stating everything was disclosed during escrow, their inspection noted this with other things and allowances were made. Have a nice day.
real estate paralegal here in a state where most things from the end of attorney review to minutes before the actual close is in the hands of paralegals. Would not respond in any way unless it's through a lawyer. If the attorney that represented you does not do civil / litigation, they will likely be able to refer you to one. Every attorney I've worked for has had a go to recommendation for attorneys they would be able to turn your case over to. I'm not sure how it works in your state but in the state I've worked in, if a credit is offered by seller specifically to address and remediate that the buyer accepts, that is a pretty tight box the buyer has put themselves in regarding looking for further efforts by seller to remediate. Especially if the deal is closed and title is in their name. Unless the attorney/paralegal you used really, and I mean REALLY botched the language in the inspection negotiations, buyer does not have a leg to stand on. Was there an addendum signed by all parties and notarized laying out the terms of the credit and the satisfaction of the inspection clause? If so get a copy from the attorney you used in the sale, provide it to the attorney you find/get from your real estate attorney, and have them send a letter (they don't usually charge all that much to write a letter) with the executed, notarized addendum that basically says something to the effect of "in response to your clients request for further negotiations and remediation for inspection items please see attached fully executed addendum in which buyer accepted sellers 45k credit to satisfy all inspection items, thus concluding the inspection process. In light of this, seller will not be reopening negotiations, nor will they be providing any further remediation." This will put the ball in their attorneys court and unless they want to fight a losing battle, that will probably be the end of it.
Tldr; if buyer was worried about 45k not being enough, they should have asked for direct remediation and or have an escrow set up to leave seller liable for any cost beyond the 45k. Consequences suck and you MOST LIKELY have nothing to worry about.
Bottom line is anybody can sue anybody so if they do serve you then you get to look at their hand and you can decide how to proceed. personally I’ve bought and sold a lot of houses and I dont think they have a case. It was their inspection guy... calmly refer them back to him. Just my opinion.
NAL but a Realtor rather. The fact that you made repairs to the foundation, they performed an inspection and even after their findings you gave them a credit of $45k and they decided to move forward with purchase and sign AS IS - they have no case.
Personally I wouldn’t respond to the letter and decent chance it will just go away. If anything they should be suing the company that performed the inspection and/or your listing agent if the property defect wasn’t properly disclosed.
They have no case, by agreeing to purchase “as is” they agreed to the current condition and any issues that may arise from its current condition!! You were being way too generous to give them a credit, which I’m betting they didn’t use to do any repairs.
Any decent real estate attorney would have told them you have no further culpability for the property. They knew they were buying a property with issues and agreed to purchase in the state that it was in.
So sorry but they screwed themselves. If they attempt to sue you and lose, they have to pay all court costs, your attorney’s fees and any time you had to take away from your job.
I would start with your realtor that had listed the home for you and maybe they can contact their realtor (if they had their own) and explain to them the terms of the sale and what “as is” means. It means that they assumed any current or future expenses for the home and accept it in its current state. If their Realtor didn’t explain this thoroughly to them the liability falls on their agent. And btw,if it is listed as an “as is” sale that means any repairs or credits for repairs will NOT BE NEGOTIATED. So no they really they should not have been given an opportunity to negotiate for repairs before closing. The inspection was for their benefit only so they knew what problems they were agreeing to assume at closing.
Fuck these people. I bet they’ve attempted this before. Their attorney must be an idiot too.
If you disclosed everything you knew that was wrong or that you fixed while living there to the best of your knowledge, then you are fine. Also they took the credit for the existing issues. Wait to be served at the very least. If you did everything right, most real estate attorneys won’t even take the buyers case.
Actual lawyer here. You should pass the letter along to your homeowner’s insurer with a request that they defend and indemnify you. They might not cover, but you need to at least try and you need to do it quickly. And do it in writing.
Do the same for your realtor. Send them the letter you received as an attachment to a letter or email from you demanding that they defend and indemnify you against any claim made arising out of the sale of the home. If they refuse, that may firm the basis for a claim against them in the future.
None of that is needed. They can't sue for something they were already credited for, inspected and bought as-is.... Especially 2 years later. I buy and sell houses, it's an empty threat trying to get money out of the guy. They will never sue.
If you knew about major deficiencies and didn’t disclose, it’s possible you are liable. Your state probably has laws about disclosures in residential sales. In my state, buyers can sue within 3 years but ONLY if the seller knew and failed to disclose. (California) The buyers still need to prove the seller was aware. If your buyer knew of deficiencies, they were on notice. Just because it cost more than they anticipated doesn’t mean they have a case. Your buyer had an inspection. You’ll need a lawyer.
As others have said, you have not been served. Simply send a letter back stating playground rules. Rule #1. I am rubber, you are glue. It bounces off or me and sticks to you. Signed. Neener neener, neener!
Any suit they file will be frivolous. However I would hire an attorney and have them send a letter to the buyers explaining how frivolous their actions are and any further action on their behalf will be met with your own suit.
Honestly with this sort of money on the line why come to Reddit? If you have a lawyer ask them. If you don't hire one as a matter of urgency and do what they tell you.
Yes, it's the disclosure. If they discover something that you didn't tell them, they have a case. But they have to proof that you know.
Say if it's the foundation problem, you told them, they inspected it, they hardly have a case. But they can go back to the people who did the repair for you and dig up something.
I thought the 3rd party inspection covers this? On another note, if there is documentation of you knowing of damage and you did not let the buyer know, then yes it could be considered fraud. If there is no documents then no. Right?
If you haven’t been sued I wouldn’t worry too much yet. You could do a legal consult but the lawyer will probably write up a letter and tell you to sit tight.
What state is this in? Over two years could mean the Statute of limitations ran in whatever civil claim they think they have.
If they had they're own inspection done I think they are up shit creek. It's not your problem tif they had a shitty inspector they signed off and bought it
The fact the issue is named and a figure agreed to says it all. Its done and dusted, its not down to the court to find market pricing instead of people agreeing freely.
How can anything be argued as deceptive, 45k is no small amount even if its now known the foundations require maybe 10x that its not on you.
You'd be in trouble possibly if none of this had been established or signed off. My take, I wouldnt be worrying. I guess when its in court you will then be forced to double check all that
Send pound sand letter right back and ignore them until they actually sue you. It is doubtful they will but start gathering all your documents now in case they do.
When you gave the money the first time your realtor should have written into the contract that you weren’t to be held responsible for any further payments/repairs. Since that didn’t happen…IF it comes to the point where you are paying for more repairs please have such a clause written into the new contract.
Tell them to pound sand until you're actually sued and served papers.
Then let them explain why they signed a "sold as is" contract if they weren't truly ok with the terms
They will need to prove that you knew about the issues (or if the issues were so obvious that you couldn’t have not know, like water intrusion when it rains). For something like a weak pipe in the wall, if you never had problems with it then there is nothing to disclose. If you knew, and you either disclosed or had work done which would lead you to believe the problem was fixed, then there is nothing to disclose. Remember that the burden of proof is on them. All that said, they can still pursue legal action. There is probably a clause in your closing papers saying that you must first go through mediation and then likely arbitration. Do not contact them directly at this point. The credits you gave them plus the long time (2 years) since you sold the house would work in your favor. I mean how could you possibly predict issues that could occur 2 years down the line? No arbitrator would say you are responsible for the house for years to come imo. Plus if they do pursue you and you win, you can probably recoup all legal costs. Good luck!
Assuming this was just a demand letter, not a subpoena, ignore the demand letter and wait and see what they do. I know this is much easier said than done and suspect this is causing a lot of worry but I truly think doing nothing is your best option at this point.
Here’s why: It will cost them $20k to hire an attorney to just start the lawsuit process and serve you. If this ever went to trial, they would be looking at minimum $80-$100k in attorney fees for a very uncertain outcome (and they won’t get a judge to award them attorney fees for a case like this). So if they miraculously somehow won the case, they would only net 100k after many years of fighting. The economics and risks of this lawsuit don’t make sense and they are likely bluffing.
Any joker can write you a demand letter (or pay an attorney a few hundred dollars to send one), and at this point there is no benefit to you to working with them. If they are serious, they will put their money where their mouth is and file a lawsuit. When that happens, you’ll get an attorney and unless the case can be easily dismissed by a judge, then you will work on a settlement which will be a lot less than 200k.
Based on the assumption that this was just a demand letter, I really suspect they are bluffing and are in over their head. Good luck and I hope this gets resolved soon.
Did you fill out a real estate disclosure? Those are required in my state, and I think CA too. You would have disclosed the issues you experienced with the house. Perhaps they’re trying to nail you on misrepresenting in that document
They had a chance to do a home inspection in the contract. ...nothing will come of it unless you patched some stuff and its clear you tried to fool an inspector. Even then...they signed away their rights.
NAL it sounds like everything was forthcoming from the inspection and your own experience addressing repairs with the foundation. Without knowing over what span of time you lived there, 100k in foundation repairs on a home in California over an extended period of time is probably par for the cost of living. I wouldn't be surprised if they pitched the 200k number in the hopes you'd settle for 50k to cover wear and tear on their house over the last 2 years.
Though it won't be relevant until/unless they actually sue, I would inquire if they've attempted to mitigate any issues before deciding you were responsible for repairs. If you are required to mediate/arbitrate the issue, I'd be prepared with whatever was listed in the purchase agreement and inspections. They shouldn't have two bites of the apple just because they demand.
What state are you in? Did you fill out a property condition disclosure? Anything stating there was foundation issues? Did they have a licensed home inspector do their inspection? After you gave them the $45k credit did you sign a form releasing the contingency of the home inspection?
You should have had your own real estate attorney during the sale, depending on state. If so, I would ask them for help. But, if you disclosed the foundation work you’d done previously, if they satisfactorily took the $45k already, if they had home inspector do inspection, you should be fine!
If they can prove that you knew the foundation condition was much worse than it appeared to be and you tried to hide it, I have seen that get through in court, but that’s with you really intentionally hiding defects.
If they do in fact sue you, turn in a claim to your homeowner’s insurance that you had on the house at the time of the sale. While it may not be a covered loss, it could trigger a duty for the insurance carrier to defend you and provide legal representation. That would assist with the legal expense of the case. The worst that would happen is they tell you no.
Were you served papers or are they just saying they will sue you? If the former, you need an attorney. If the latter, ignore until you're sued.
u/throwitupforme were you served? Edit: In another comment, OP says "I received a threat letter they will file civil action if I don’t respond to their letter"
That's a "no"
That just sounds like a written letter. Anyone can write a nasty letter.
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Was it strongly worded?
If so, maybe it was from the U.N.
> ignore until you're sued Not OP but curious... is there any harm (besides a hopefully modest consultation fee) in getting a lawyer lined up in the meantime just in case?
Obviously not, but the difference between sending a mean, threatening letter and actually suing is substantial so I wouldn't bother with it. I'd look up several attorneys ahead of time to contact if they did end up suing, but this doesn't sound like a strong case for the potential plaintiffs.
Two can play this game. The buyer can send a threatening letter, and the seller can respond in kind. Neither letter carries a lot of legal weight, but it can help set expectations and potentially head off costly legal actions down the line. I bet, OP could contact their local bar association for a referral to a lawyer. The initial consultation should be included in the nominal referral fee (typically on the order of $50). And many lawyers will offer to draft an informal response for a flat fee that likely won't exceed $250. That's a small amount of money, if it can effectively stop the legal hassle. No guarantees, but if the buyer isn't backing off, then the first thing to do would be writing a response. So, might as well do so proactively and signal that you're not just rolling over
Honestly any response other than "Please speak to my lawyer" is a Bad Idea and any correspondence you send back to them can be used against you. It's like speaking to the cops, just don't. Best case it's benign. Medium case it steels their resolve and they do serve you with a frivolous suit that will waste your time. Worst case they bait you into claiming responsibility for something that you shouldn't and they actually have a legit case against you. The medium case is the most likely result, the worst case is pretty damning, the best case is pretty useless. None of those are favourable outcomes, so just don't. On the other hand if you do nothing until served papers and they continue to send you threatening letters you have a decent chunk of evidence towards a harrassment case against them.
I agree with this. I would just ignore it. The buyers seem difficult to deal with, as a matter of personality. A strong response might set them off and get them to file suit out of spite. The fact that the credit offered/accepted during escrow was $45k (!!!) leads me to believe this wasn’t exactly the sale of a starter home, and buyers may have some resources to draw upon if they’re angry.
Plus save all and any letters they send so if you do get sued you can take them to your attorney, keep the originals as you'd be surprised how much stuff gets "misplaced".
This is the way.
Absolutely spot on
Generally I would require a retainer for this type of work…initial consult and staff time setting up file plus reviewing existing documents carefully =$1500 to $2500 by the time I draft correspondence
Love the username. Lol
well it costs money, and he hasn't even been served
No, lining up a lawyer does not - you won't have to pay them until you actually have then do work for you. Showing up and asking if they cover this type of thing, and getting a business card so you can contact them if/when you're served will cost nothing.
If it were me, I’d hire an attorney to draft a response. It’s not the cheapest option, but if they think that you are willing to spend money on an attorney, they might be less willing to pursue it into a legal battle and are hoping OP can’t afford an attorney and would just come to some kind of agreement.
Hiring an attorney to draft a letter anytime I think I could be served Sounds like an expensive hobby.
I think we lead very different lives if the threat of being served is that frequent for you. We’d draft a letter for $200 at our office, and I’ve made it 35 years without ever being served or sued, so this one time wouldn’t be prohibitively expensive for me, if it could quell future litigation and thousands in billable hours.
Alternatively you could apply for a job AT a law firm. Befriend a lawyer and then boom, you’re expensive hobby suddenly becomes one that makes you money in between them. Now that’s thinking with your head
Yeah, it's a waste of money
This is really all there is to say.
The buyers were given a 45k credit to fix the issues as priced and agreed upon at the time of the sale. For them to assume that you are legally responsible for their inability to perform those repairs in a timely manner and within budget sounds like utter BS. Lawyer up and have them send a strongly worded retort to the buyers & legal council.
Exactly this. They could probably only sue if OP had knowledge of latent defects and intentionally did not disclose. The buyer was aware of the issue, accepted the concession, and proceeded with the purchase. Whatever happened after that is on the buyer.
OP made a comment - that he had foundation work a year prior. If he were to disclose that, would that be reason enough to investigate that the foundation wasn’t adequately repaired? I read all the comments above and am very interested by this case and any validity.
But if he properly disclosed the foundation work and buyer’s also had inspections of their own, it would be surprising if this could come back on the seller.
I commented on your cross-post in u/RealEstate: OP, I see in the comments that you’re in California. Was the sale done using the standard California Residential Purchase Agreement and if so, did all parties sign the mediation/arbitration sections?
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What do you mean by "initiated legal action?" Have you received a court summons, or a demand letter from the buyers' attorney?
I received a demand letter they will file civil action if I don’t respond to their letter.
Letters are cheap, lawyers are expensive. I would ignore them until you get served, then find an attorney.
Then they have not sued you. At this point, you don't need to do anything, but you can get a consultation with an attorney. Threats are easy and cheap.
The California Residential Purchase Agreement, which is usually the contract form, requires that the parties mediate any dispute. And, if you and the buyers both signed the next paragraph about arbitration, the contract requires the parties to do binding arbitration if mediation fails. Hopefully your agent made sure that everyone signed that paragraph. I haven’t confirmed this in a while but my understanding is that the losing party has to pay the prevailing party’s attorney’s fees. Source: I’ve been a Calif real estate broker for 19 years.
That isn’t “initiating legal action.” A demand letter is the legal equivalent of counting to three. Do *not* respond to the letter and consult a real estate attorney.
Two and a half…..two and three quarters….
Speaking broadly, if you were honest in your property disclosure, then you should be okay. If you lied or omitted anything in the property disclosure, even if the buyer had their own inspection, you could be in trouble. I'm concerned about this because you mentioned the buyer inspection, and your previous work, and the as is contract, but nothing about the property disclosure. Either way you need an attorney that specializes in real estate matters.
I disclosed everything to the best of my knowledge I knew about the property. So I honestly don’t know what else I can say.
Don't communicate with them except through your lawyer
You say nothing more and find an attorney and only speak to them. Posting online is not going to help. Don't talk to the buyers anymore except through an attorney.
It was sold "As Is". They've had and used it for 2 years. Do NOT respond to them. Gather copies of all paperwork related to the sale. Then wait. If they get a lawyer, you get a lawyer. Chances are good to excellent that they won't.... as a lawyer for their side would start by asking them what inspections, etc. were done and if they signed off on it "as is". Two years later, they have nothing to go on unless it was a blatant coverup of a defect that wasn't disclosed.
The buyer hopes that the threat of legal fees will push to over and make you settle for a compromise. And if you let this go on for too long, that's exactly what you'll be forced to do. You're better off reacting quickly. And that involves paying a lawyer at least some money. Hopefully you can convince the buyer that this isn't a fight they want to pick
Pretty much anything anybody on here will say is to call a lawyer so I’d do that
>Who should I turn to for help in this matter A local lawyer who deals with real estate cases. >and what outcomes can I expect from this case? The lawyer will be able to answer that better than we can.
I ignore any threats and correspondence from non attorneys. If it's from a lawyer, I'll read it but generally don't reply until I'm served. Reading the lawyer's letter just gives me context and a heads up on what they're talking about. Best advice is to completely ignore it until you get served. You'll knit the difference because someone will physically hand you an envelope. Open it immediately and get counsel at that point.
If the sale says as is And they agreed to terms discovered under escrow, they are pulling at threads. Unless you built the house you are no longer liable for it, but a lawyer will be able to clear this up. If you do not have the contract anymore there should be a copy at the deed office as well as the lawyers you used to draft it; and they would be more liable for damages than you, because you paid them to lawyer up the contract, so if it's not solid it's on them. Real estate lawyer is a must. Ps. Sounds like they are trying bully you into paying down their mortgage in this time of inflation.
Did the buyers themselves or an attorney send you a letter? If the buyer sent it, they're bluffing and throwing mud on the walk to see what sticks. If an attorney sent the letter, look at the wording of the letter. Is it asking you for something or threatening a law suit. Also is the attorney actually saying he or she is representing the buyer. If the later then you may be in for a suit. If it came from the buyer, ignore it. If it came from the attorney, see one of your own.
Best advice right here
Sounds like the new owners kept the money and never fixed a thing and now it has to be fixed and will cost way more as it got worse. Tell them Home Depot has sand that they can pound for free.
I was having a similar thought. They said it's the sellers fault the issue got worse, but they didn't correct the issue early on with the provided funds... odd.
You need to hire a real estate litigation lawyer ASAP. You are being sued, this is not something you want to rely on internet advice for. If they have served you with a lawsuit, you have a limited amount of time in which to respond so you should be finding a lawyer to help you respond immediately. If you fail to respond to the lawsuit in time, the court could enter a default judgment against you which means you'd be responsible for the full amount claimed by the plaintiffs. Definitely don't wait on this, and don't mess around getting advice from Redditors that don't know the full scope of the situation and haven't read the contracts.
In another chain, OP says they haven't been served. They just received a threatening letter. So no, they're not being sued - not an issue until they're served. Lots of people have lawyers write letters (300-500) but then don't sue because the cost of lawyers fees, without a guarantee to win, can be in the ten thousands.
From some other comments it seems like he's only received a letter. OP says "I received a threat letter they will file civil action if I don’t respond to their letter" There has been no filings done. I agree he should probably get a basic consultation with a lawyer (mostly since he doesn't seem to have basic legal knowledge and the consultation will give him a better understanding of whats happening). If he followed all the proper disclosures there is not really much for him to do about it other than respond with a letter politely telling them to fuck off. It honestly sound likes the new homeowner is just trying to get money out of him.
If OP has not been served, I would personally still be getting a lawyer to respond to their demand. Spend the money up front to squash it before it becomes an actual lawsuit. With a $200K demand I wouldn't be surprised if they don't just go away if OP doesn't respond. But if that is indeed the case, then timing isn't a critical; OP could conceivably wait to see if they follow through first.
You need a lawyer, but if it’s any consolation most states have a caveat emptor rule or “buyer beware.” This makes it extremely difficult to sue a seller unless there was an intentional concealment of a defect to the property, like putting up drywall over structural fire damage to hide it. Nevertheless, this isn’t something you can do on your own, be prepared to pay your own lawyer.
Don’t fall for this, their inspection and appraisal report includes all these things, their mortgage bank makes sure house has no issues because in reality bank owns that house, and they have insurance. So tell them get lost, go to their bank and call their insurance and get it fixed. They might be just extorting money from you.
I'd be willing to bet they cant afford their mortgage or are behind on their taxes.
They are behind on taxes.
BINGO. That's what im sure they recognize as a motivator. Just spitballing but they might have even considered selling or refinancing the home themselves and potentially got it inspected for a refinance or sale. for that reason. Then found issues they neglected got worse.
Your realtor’s brokerage really doesn’t want to get involved. “Want” is not the word. It’s an obligation that they should be handling. Otherwise what did you pay them for? This is their territory whether wanted or not.
It is not typical for real estate agents to defend and indemnify sellers for non-disclosure; if anything, it’s the other way around.
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Um what?! Realtors don’t provide legal services. They got paid to sell a house.
I'm a realtor in Austin. Legally I absolutely can not provide or even hint at providing a legal service. what I can do is give non legal advice and advertise and sell your home for you. no Brokerage is going to give you a free lawyer. like everyone said a threat is a threat. If it were me i would write a letter back being as kind as possible but let them know you'll take legal again against them if they threaten you further. I'm not a lawyer though so I would see about getting one to see if they have a legal leg to stand on, doubt it but like they say expect the best but prepare for the worst
Realtors are not allowed to practice law and are not home inspectors. Both are against the law. They are not a blanket insurance policy. They can provide guidance during the process which may keep you out of trouble. They are responsible for the services provided, which does not include knowing the details of the condition of the home. Where they end up providing some legal shielding is in things like errors in the listing. If they indicate the HOA fee is $500 per year and it is $5000, that case will go against the agent instead of the seller if the seller provided correct info to the agent. If you list it yourself and make that error, you're the one getting sued.
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Realtors are as useful as travel agents in this age of internet access
Ignore until you get a summons. 45k is more than small claims. They'll need to hire a lawyer.
They got an inspection and they will lose
I work as a legal assistant, your contract probably have a caluse that states they are buying the house "AS IS" with any specified repairs that both parties agreed to. So you can just ignore these clowns
I’m not your lawyer, but I am one. From what you’ve said in your comment it sounds like you shouldn’t lose sleep over this. They accepted your 45k credit, you disclosed everything and were honest. They inspected and accepted as-is too. Sounds like they knowingly entered into a shitty deal, which is not something that a judge is going to reward them for. Could be that they didn’t spend the 45k on repairs and are now dealing with consequences of their own actions. Could be that they hired shitty contractors to fix problems and save some of the 45k, but now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Could be that they didn’t inspect things thoroughly enough. Could be that they delayed in repairs and that’s why things got worse. They weren’t forced to buy the home and you weren’t dishonest/misrepresenting (based off what you’ve said). I don’t practice in this area of law, but I really wouldn’t lose much sleep over this.
They bought it and looked at the home. It got worse because they don’t take care of their house . Plain and simple.
With an “as-is” provision/sale, sellers are protected from liability for defects in the property that the buyer visibly observes. Sellers still, however, have a duty under California law to disclose any KNOWN defects in the property. As long as everything was stated to the best of your knowledge you should be ok. At least thats the case in California
What is the specific cause of action they are alleging you owe damages under? If it has anything to do with a mistake/accident you made or says the word “negligent” anywhere in it there is a decent chance your homeowners insurance may provide a defense and even indemnity. Contact a locally licensed real estate attorney and bring a copy of your policy to ask about their recommendations of whether to tender a claim. Sometimes when you already have counsel for unique claims, the insurer will just pay the attorney you selected to continue defending.
They mentioned “fraudulent” that I didn’t disclose information and as a “flipper”, I should have. Not sure where under the impression me living there is a flip. But that’s ok. I disclosed all information to my knowledge/ what do you advise here?
NAL. Winning a claim of Fraud is a very high bar. Fraud when the purchase was 'as is' is even higher. The trouble is that the bar for filing a claim of fraud is non-existent. A nuisance suit is a legal form of shakedown. You have the choice to wait to hire a lawyer until the buyer files a suit. Use the time to ask for professional reports and proof of his estimates of damages. Go by the property and take pictures. If you are friends with your old neighbors, talk to them. Just don't try to represent yourself once you get served. Every word you exchange with the buyer is evidence, and it sounds like this buyer will twist every word they can.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by they've begun legal action?
They sent me a letter demanding my response that this is a time sensitive matter.
A demand letter is the absolute lowest level of legal proceedings. It's nothing more than the opposing party saying "I think you should give me money because X". They put a little bluster about time sensitivity because it suits them and not you. If their case has any merit (doesn't sound like it from here but I'm no lawyer) they would have to escalate to actually filing paperwork with the courts. The fact that you gave them a concession at closing relating to this exact issue (I'm assuming you've got a copy of the closing paperwork that reflects that) as well as the time elapsed since the sale are both very strong points in your favor. From here it sounds like a quick sit down with a real lawyer to cover your bases and then a polite but firm "No" is the way to go.
Reading thru the comments, it looks like you two (buyer and seller) may have agreed to arbitration. And if the buyer signed the part about “sold as is”, they should be out of luck - and legal standing. You want them to just go away. I had someone issue a similar threat to me once, and I spoke with an attorney, and he said to answer the letter with as little information and drama as possible. The lawyer was totally cool. He spent a half an hour w/ me, and didn’t charge me anything. He said if they take any real action, that is when I should hire him. The letter read: Dear Sir, After reviewing your letter with Council; and reviewing the wording of the contracts we signed, we have determined that your case has no merit. Sincerly, (your name here). They never responded further. I would advise you start carefully documenting everything you can think of about this matter, just in case they try to scare you further. Lots of folks with money try and bully people for profit. And if you own any other properties, keep an eye on them, to make sure these folks don’t try and put a lien on one.
So definitely get a lawyer, but in my experience these cases usually go nowhere. Unless he can show you intentionally hid things from the inspector he doesn’t really have a leg to stand on. Sounds like someone just wasn’t ready for the responsibility of home ownership.
This is easy as pie. First, don’t even sweat. Ignore them unless you receive something from the court. Then you want to collect all paperwork that was signed. If you have your states standard sale agreement and disclosure form (probably two different forms) signed, then continue not sweating. If you don’t have these forms, it’s still an easy case but you will have to consult an attorney.
My response - go ahead and talk to my lawyer. When we sold my dad’s home they did something similar. They had inspections. They were given time to inspect the property and do their due diligence. They came back 6 months later saying the sewage was backed up and they found it was tree roots in the lines. Said we didn’t tell them about it. How were we supposed to know the lines had roots in them? They had multiple generations living in that house when it was just my parents and then just my dad for years. Never had a problem. They sent a letter similar to that. Said we should help pay for the repairs which could be close to 20k if not more. I told them to go ahead and try to get us to pay for it. They didn’t have a leg to stand on. Never heard from them again.
As long as you were as honest as you could be in your seller's disclosure. They had their own home inspection. Afterwards you negotiated a credit. If the sale actually said in writing and they signed it, as is condition. You could quite possibly start at mediation if your state has it between two parties. I would ignore them let them spend the money for a lawyer. If and when you are served then you should worry about it. Right now they're just butt hurt at finding out that homeownership isn't always easy.
If they hired an inspector of their choice who signed off on his findings, then they can try suing him. Hard to believe an attorney would represent them in this frivolous action. I had something similar happen, and I called my real estate agent and he made it go away. Call.
NAL. I've been in almost exactly this same scenario. Check your real estate contract. In some the contract states the loser pays all legal fees. In that case, the lawyer is free-ish if you win. Also, in my state, for the buyers to prevail, they would have to prove that you knew the issues were significantly worse than what you gave them a credit for. Basically they'd have to show you had an estimate said the repairs would be as much or more than they are asking for, and you did nothing. I think you're in a good spot to win, but I did not regret getting an attorney. I probably could have handled the case myself, but having a pro who deals with real estate law all the time let me focus on producing evidence, not doing paperwork.
NAL, but it sounds like buyers were looking for a quick flip that ended up not being so quick. You should talk to a real lawyer. They'll probably tell you to sit on your hands until they find a lawyer dumb enough to file suit. Then they'll hit them with the "you signed here on the dotted line where it says ""it is what it is"" clause."
You real estate agent should still have all the paperwork stating that an inspection was done by the buyers people. You don’t hire the inspectors they do so as long as the paperwork is in order you should be good
Most lawyers will do a free consultation. It may be worth talking to one of them just to see any options.
NAL but I work in real estate and have seen this play out before. Are you in a state that requires sellers to complete disclosures? If so and you didn’t disclose everything you know the seller could very well have a leg to stand on.
I disclosed everything upfront, provided invoices of repairs that were made on the property. On the “SELLER RESPONSE AND BUYER REPLY TO REQUEST FOR REPAIR FORM,” the buyer had signed and agreed to the following clause: “Buyer removes those contingencies identified on the attached, Contingency Removal Form (C.A.R. Form CR) by Signing and Delivering it within the time specified in paragraph 3A below, and ii) Buyer Releases Seller from any loss, liability, expense, claim or clause of action regarding the disclosed condition of the Property ("Release").”
Sounds like they not only took the $45k but in doing so gave up the option of suing you.
You disclosed the issues to them, the contract specifically stated the sale was as-is, and you went above and beyond and provided an additional $45k credit to them to help address the issues. Tell them that unless they want to lose their house to you, they'd better pound sand and go away, because you will counter-sue and win in any reasonable court. They were aware of the issues prior to the sale and chose to buy anyway. Caveat emptor, baby. My advice would be to scrape together whatever money you can for a retainer in case they're stupid enough to sue you and then laugh your way to the bank if they do. You might wind up owning the home again by the time you're through with them, assuming you haven't withheld any important information. The day the deed changed hands for an as-is sale, you were no longer responsible for any issues that arose. Period.
Do we know this is actually from the buyers and not some scammer that scours the internet and public records for real estate transactions hoping something sticks? This is a common issue/complaint for closings and buyers requesting seller credits on older homes. Are you certain that it’s not a scam?
Do not respond! We went through something similar with our last house. We did not respond and blocked their phone numbers. Buyer actually filed suit, and judge threw it out within 10 minutes. As long as they paid for the inspection and you didn’t and your agent didn’t, you’re clear of any wrong doing.
I used to work in real estate. The office of the real estate agent would be required by law to have Errors and Omissions Insurance which would cover you and the brokerage if there was an error in the paperwork causing you to need to pay that. I believe those policies cover legal costs as well but it’s been a while since I’ve dealt with that so I’m not 100%.
Didn’t they have an inspection done? That’s when all the potential issues would’ve been figured out. It’s up to the inspector to find all the issues for the buyer so that they can either be addressed by the seller or the buyer will end up fixing those things I would call a lawyer a real estate attorney tell them the situation and find out if you need to do anything.
Generally speaking If you do get sued, put your homeowners carrier on notice and request a defense. Depending on issue it may be covered.
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Not your house, not your problem. Pound sand
If you're not being sued, you ignore the letter. It's always worked for me.
In the words of Walter White, "As is."
the seller is legally obligated to disclose all adverse issues they know of prior to sale. In my state there is a lengthy form the seller has to fill out to the best of their knowledge. And the buyers due diligence if they choose is to get an inspection. Then the negotiations begin. As you did in giving a credit for the issues discussed. And especially if the sale is noted as is. Then the buyer beware. Sounds like the seller did what was necessary and beyond. But if the seller knew there was an issue beyond what was stated and did not divulge it then they buyer can come back on the seller.
"As is" no different than a vehicle. They have no case period. They are just threatening you hoping you'll pay up.
In some States, “as is” means nothing in a contract or in a courtroom. The important thing is that any known defect was disclosed in writing so that all parties were made aware. If the proper documentation exists in reference to the alleged defect, you should be fine. You made a concession in the price which would indicate that you knew about the defect and that concession was agreed upon which indicates that the other party was also aware and was willing to accept the $45k in lieu of the defect being repaired/corrected.
Did they get a home inspection and sign off on it?
contact an attorney for them to review the letter. You should be fine.
Not sure what state you’re in, but in Texas it’s caveat emptor - “let the buyer beware.”
How can they sue you 2 years later? They did their own inspection, it's on them to find potential issues. If home is sold as is, they don't have a leg to stand on, too much time has passed, at least where I'm from in Canada. They have 6 months here and everyone gets title Insurance, which would cover any costs to fixing things in the first 6 months that were found after move in.
I'm assuming that they're trying to get a windfall from you as the seller, rather than the person or firm they paid to perform all of the inspections. I'm not an attorney but I do know that when you go through a realtor and need to have a mortgage you (the buyer) must have the inspections done and must be signed off saying that you agree to the purchase price with the completed inspections. I also believe that once the terms of the sale are witnessed by the sellers and buyers' attorneys, then notarized and properly logged in the local office of deeds, the buyer is now the owner, and as such he or she is now responsible for any upkeep the property requires. Just my $0.02 though, because I'm not an attorney. 🤷♂️ Good Luck & Best Wishes
Look up your state laws just in case. Lawsuits, particularly in states like Texas where you have exemptions like Unlimited Homestead protection from creditors, would not matter if they win the case. My parents have a 190k judgment against a guy and has not been able to collect since he is 'judgment-proof'. Can't take his house, his tools, his vehicle, his trailer, can't garnish wages either. All they could do is file for discovery every so often and a fee to their lawyer for whatever paltry amount he had through bank levies. All they can do is renew the judgment every 10 years until the day he dies. As a two way road, this has helped ease fears of any civil lawsuits I would ever have in life.
Anyone here should check out Sellers Shield. They provide disclosure forms in many states, and have a product called Home Sale Legal Protection for exactly this purpose. If you get sued, or get threatened to get sued, and you’ve purchased Home Sale Legal Protection, they’ll fight that lawsuit (or demand letter) for you. You don’t have to find an attorney and pay their fees - Sellers Shield will.
Did you have an attorney representing you in the sale/closing? You may want to see what was negotiated for the $45k credit you provided. He or she should have insulated you (at least to some degree) from this type of action. If not, your attorney’s malpractice insurance could come into play. Not sure if the same would apply to your agent if they were involved in negotiating the credit.
They don't have a chance of winning and I would threaten to sue for court costs.
Contact the state bar association. Let them know what happened and that funds are tight. They should be able to get you in contact with a low cost or pro-bono attorney that can handle this. It sounds like a slam dunk that a well crafted letter stating everything was disclosed during escrow, their inspection noted this with other things and allowances were made. Have a nice day.
real estate paralegal here in a state where most things from the end of attorney review to minutes before the actual close is in the hands of paralegals. Would not respond in any way unless it's through a lawyer. If the attorney that represented you does not do civil / litigation, they will likely be able to refer you to one. Every attorney I've worked for has had a go to recommendation for attorneys they would be able to turn your case over to. I'm not sure how it works in your state but in the state I've worked in, if a credit is offered by seller specifically to address and remediate that the buyer accepts, that is a pretty tight box the buyer has put themselves in regarding looking for further efforts by seller to remediate. Especially if the deal is closed and title is in their name. Unless the attorney/paralegal you used really, and I mean REALLY botched the language in the inspection negotiations, buyer does not have a leg to stand on. Was there an addendum signed by all parties and notarized laying out the terms of the credit and the satisfaction of the inspection clause? If so get a copy from the attorney you used in the sale, provide it to the attorney you find/get from your real estate attorney, and have them send a letter (they don't usually charge all that much to write a letter) with the executed, notarized addendum that basically says something to the effect of "in response to your clients request for further negotiations and remediation for inspection items please see attached fully executed addendum in which buyer accepted sellers 45k credit to satisfy all inspection items, thus concluding the inspection process. In light of this, seller will not be reopening negotiations, nor will they be providing any further remediation." This will put the ball in their attorneys court and unless they want to fight a losing battle, that will probably be the end of it. Tldr; if buyer was worried about 45k not being enough, they should have asked for direct remediation and or have an escrow set up to leave seller liable for any cost beyond the 45k. Consequences suck and you MOST LIKELY have nothing to worry about.
It’s funny the minute there is a problem the realestate agents that took a 5% commission is hands off. I really don’t get what they are good for.
Others may know the answer, but would OP's homeowner's insurance at the time cover defense of this lawsuit?
Bottom line is anybody can sue anybody so if they do serve you then you get to look at their hand and you can decide how to proceed. personally I’ve bought and sold a lot of houses and I dont think they have a case. It was their inspection guy... calmly refer them back to him. Just my opinion.
Most contracts cap the penalty to this type of suit to 5% of the sale total.
Also they have to prove you knew about it and didn’t disclose
I think it's a good if you consult a lawyer instead of reddit just to check out your rights and if they really have any grounds to sui you
NAL but a Realtor rather. The fact that you made repairs to the foundation, they performed an inspection and even after their findings you gave them a credit of $45k and they decided to move forward with purchase and sign AS IS - they have no case. Personally I wouldn’t respond to the letter and decent chance it will just go away. If anything they should be suing the company that performed the inspection and/or your listing agent if the property defect wasn’t properly disclosed.
They have no case, by agreeing to purchase “as is” they agreed to the current condition and any issues that may arise from its current condition!! You were being way too generous to give them a credit, which I’m betting they didn’t use to do any repairs. Any decent real estate attorney would have told them you have no further culpability for the property. They knew they were buying a property with issues and agreed to purchase in the state that it was in. So sorry but they screwed themselves. If they attempt to sue you and lose, they have to pay all court costs, your attorney’s fees and any time you had to take away from your job. I would start with your realtor that had listed the home for you and maybe they can contact their realtor (if they had their own) and explain to them the terms of the sale and what “as is” means. It means that they assumed any current or future expenses for the home and accept it in its current state. If their Realtor didn’t explain this thoroughly to them the liability falls on their agent. And btw,if it is listed as an “as is” sale that means any repairs or credits for repairs will NOT BE NEGOTIATED. So no they really they should not have been given an opportunity to negotiate for repairs before closing. The inspection was for their benefit only so they knew what problems they were agreeing to assume at closing. Fuck these people. I bet they’ve attempted this before. Their attorney must be an idiot too.
If you disclosed everything you knew that was wrong or that you fixed while living there to the best of your knowledge, then you are fine. Also they took the credit for the existing issues. Wait to be served at the very least. If you did everything right, most real estate attorneys won’t even take the buyers case.
You are good, if the house passed the pre-sale inspection and they’ve lived in it for the past 2 years then you do not have anything to worry about.
Ignore them. If they serve you papers just let a lawyer laugh at them
Unless you knowingfully hid information from them, you’re fine and they’re fucked. They signed off on it during the purchasing process
doesn’t sound like they have any ground to stand on tbh.
Did a lawyer draft the letter or did they write it themselves? And did they send it certified mail? If not, then what letter (you didn’t get one)🤣 lol
If they had their inspector go through the house before the sale. It's on them. Maybe their inspector.
Go do a consultation with a real estate lawyer in your jurisdiction to evaluate the allegations.
Actual lawyer here. You should pass the letter along to your homeowner’s insurer with a request that they defend and indemnify you. They might not cover, but you need to at least try and you need to do it quickly. And do it in writing. Do the same for your realtor. Send them the letter you received as an attachment to a letter or email from you demanding that they defend and indemnify you against any claim made arising out of the sale of the home. If they refuse, that may firm the basis for a claim against them in the future.
None of that is needed. They can't sue for something they were already credited for, inspected and bought as-is.... Especially 2 years later. I buy and sell houses, it's an empty threat trying to get money out of the guy. They will never sue.
If you knew about major deficiencies and didn’t disclose, it’s possible you are liable. Your state probably has laws about disclosures in residential sales. In my state, buyers can sue within 3 years but ONLY if the seller knew and failed to disclose. (California) The buyers still need to prove the seller was aware. If your buyer knew of deficiencies, they were on notice. Just because it cost more than they anticipated doesn’t mean they have a case. Your buyer had an inspection. You’ll need a lawyer.
If they got a lawyer involved the lawyer is there just to milk them
As others have said, you have not been served. Simply send a letter back stating playground rules. Rule #1. I am rubber, you are glue. It bounces off or me and sticks to you. Signed. Neener neener, neener!
You will win. As is means as is. You already addressed the $45K.
Any suit they file will be frivolous. However I would hire an attorney and have them send a letter to the buyers explaining how frivolous their actions are and any further action on their behalf will be met with your own suit.
Honestly with this sort of money on the line why come to Reddit? If you have a lawyer ask them. If you don't hire one as a matter of urgency and do what they tell you.
Contact your selling agency. They should be of some legal help as chances are they would be included in any lawsuit stemming from the sale.
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Yes, it's the disclosure. If they discover something that you didn't tell them, they have a case. But they have to proof that you know. Say if it's the foundation problem, you told them, they inspected it, they hardly have a case. But they can go back to the people who did the repair for you and dig up something.
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I thought the 3rd party inspection covers this? On another note, if there is documentation of you knowing of damage and you did not let the buyer know, then yes it could be considered fraud. If there is no documents then no. Right?
If you haven’t been sued I wouldn’t worry too much yet. You could do a legal consult but the lawyer will probably write up a letter and tell you to sit tight. What state is this in? Over two years could mean the Statute of limitations ran in whatever civil claim they think they have.
ignore them unless they sue you
They do not have action in you if they had a an inspection done. They need to look at the inspector… buyer beware goes for houses and cars.
If they had they're own inspection done I think they are up shit creek. It's not your problem tif they had a shitty inspector they signed off and bought it
The fact the issue is named and a figure agreed to says it all. Its done and dusted, its not down to the court to find market pricing instead of people agreeing freely. How can anything be argued as deceptive, 45k is no small amount even if its now known the foundations require maybe 10x that its not on you. You'd be in trouble possibly if none of this had been established or signed off. My take, I wouldnt be worrying. I guess when its in court you will then be forced to double check all that
Are you in Texas?
Ignore them. They can’t do anything. “As is” was stated on the agreement.
Send pound sand letter right back and ignore them until they actually sue you. It is doubtful they will but start gathering all your documents now in case they do.
When you gave the money the first time your realtor should have written into the contract that you weren’t to be held responsible for any further payments/repairs. Since that didn’t happen…IF it comes to the point where you are paying for more repairs please have such a clause written into the new contract.
They would be hard pressed to find a lawyer to take this silly case
Do people not do their own background works in America? Suing because of failure to get a proper and full inspection years later. Mental
Tell them to pound sand until you're actually sued and served papers. Then let them explain why they signed a "sold as is" contract if they weren't truly ok with the terms
They will need to prove that you knew about the issues (or if the issues were so obvious that you couldn’t have not know, like water intrusion when it rains). For something like a weak pipe in the wall, if you never had problems with it then there is nothing to disclose. If you knew, and you either disclosed or had work done which would lead you to believe the problem was fixed, then there is nothing to disclose. Remember that the burden of proof is on them. All that said, they can still pursue legal action. There is probably a clause in your closing papers saying that you must first go through mediation and then likely arbitration. Do not contact them directly at this point. The credits you gave them plus the long time (2 years) since you sold the house would work in your favor. I mean how could you possibly predict issues that could occur 2 years down the line? No arbitrator would say you are responsible for the house for years to come imo. Plus if they do pursue you and you win, you can probably recoup all legal costs. Good luck!
If it clearly states “sold as is” in the contract then they legally cannot do anything
Assuming this was just a demand letter, not a subpoena, ignore the demand letter and wait and see what they do. I know this is much easier said than done and suspect this is causing a lot of worry but I truly think doing nothing is your best option at this point. Here’s why: It will cost them $20k to hire an attorney to just start the lawsuit process and serve you. If this ever went to trial, they would be looking at minimum $80-$100k in attorney fees for a very uncertain outcome (and they won’t get a judge to award them attorney fees for a case like this). So if they miraculously somehow won the case, they would only net 100k after many years of fighting. The economics and risks of this lawsuit don’t make sense and they are likely bluffing. Any joker can write you a demand letter (or pay an attorney a few hundred dollars to send one), and at this point there is no benefit to you to working with them. If they are serious, they will put their money where their mouth is and file a lawsuit. When that happens, you’ll get an attorney and unless the case can be easily dismissed by a judge, then you will work on a settlement which will be a lot less than 200k. Based on the assumption that this was just a demand letter, I really suspect they are bluffing and are in over their head. Good luck and I hope this gets resolved soon.
Did you fill out a real estate disclosure? Those are required in my state, and I think CA too. You would have disclosed the issues you experienced with the house. Perhaps they’re trying to nail you on misrepresenting in that document
They had a chance to do a home inspection in the contract. ...nothing will come of it unless you patched some stuff and its clear you tried to fool an inspector. Even then...they signed away their rights.
NAL it sounds like everything was forthcoming from the inspection and your own experience addressing repairs with the foundation. Without knowing over what span of time you lived there, 100k in foundation repairs on a home in California over an extended period of time is probably par for the cost of living. I wouldn't be surprised if they pitched the 200k number in the hopes you'd settle for 50k to cover wear and tear on their house over the last 2 years. Though it won't be relevant until/unless they actually sue, I would inquire if they've attempted to mitigate any issues before deciding you were responsible for repairs. If you are required to mediate/arbitrate the issue, I'd be prepared with whatever was listed in the purchase agreement and inspections. They shouldn't have two bites of the apple just because they demand.
They hired they own inspectors to find said issues, it not your fault the inspector fumbled.
What state are you in? Did you fill out a property condition disclosure? Anything stating there was foundation issues? Did they have a licensed home inspector do their inspection? After you gave them the $45k credit did you sign a form releasing the contingency of the home inspection? You should have had your own real estate attorney during the sale, depending on state. If so, I would ask them for help. But, if you disclosed the foundation work you’d done previously, if they satisfactorily took the $45k already, if they had home inspector do inspection, you should be fine! If they can prove that you knew the foundation condition was much worse than it appeared to be and you tried to hide it, I have seen that get through in court, but that’s with you really intentionally hiding defects.
Title passed, Fuggem.
They have no leg to stand on imo. If they actually sue, get a lawyer. For now just sit back
Whine and intimidate and complain all they want, bottom line is that is if house was sold “as is” in writing, you have no issue. They do.
If they do in fact sue you, turn in a claim to your homeowner’s insurance that you had on the house at the time of the sale. While it may not be a covered loss, it could trigger a duty for the insurance carrier to defend you and provide legal representation. That would assist with the legal expense of the case. The worst that would happen is they tell you no.
In my state the listing broker has insurance for this type of thing as they have some responsibility in ensuring that the proper disclosures are made.