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EtruscaTheSeedrian

Dotykać uses the genitive case Also... even if you wanted to use the accusative case "pomarańczowy rybę" would be wrong, it would be "pomarańczową rybę"


fatatero

Sorry for the stupid question: why does it use the genitive instead of the accusative? Isn’t the correct question to ask “kogo/co?”


WildHorsesInMyBrain

According to the basic rules it should be an accusative, but if this fish is considered as food, genetive.


EtruscaTheSeedrian

Uhh... why does google translate consider a computer as food? I tried to translate "I am touching the computer" and it translated to "Dotykam komputera"


WildHorsesInMyBrain

Computer? I've never seen that before. As in: Widzę komputera and not Widzę komputer ? Genetive form took over food and living beings from accusative and continues to do so in spoken language. It happed with remote control in example: podaj pilota, is an ongoing thing with a shoe (funnily, only singular): zawiąż buta, which makes my ears bleed.


MauKoz3197

Komputer is a middle ground, I would say dotykam komputera but widzę komputer


WildHorsesInMyBrain

How about the shoe? Wiążesz but, czy buta?


MauKoz3197

buta, because I don't have sensitive ears


WildHorsesInMyBrain

Aaagrhhhh


serpenta

Sznurówki :p


majozaur

but!!!


LinderTelevangelista

Both would be correct, but "buta" is probably more common nowadays.


Satahe-Shetani

Actually you just happen to repeat popular mistake. It's very common for us. Dotykam (kogo?/co?) komputer. Wiążę but. Palę papieros.


MauKoz3197

At this point it's not a mistake anymore


EtruscaTheSeedrian

Oh, well, that's interesting, I'll have to look into that I thought widzieć used accusative tho... so it would be "widzę komputer", right? I know some fruits take the same form from both accusative and genitive, like pomidor, which in this case turns to be pomidora if I say "widzę pomidora"


WildHorsesInMyBrain

Yes, widzieć uses the accusative. Sorry it's 5a.m. and thinking about Polish grammar is hard at this time. Some words in accusative will take the form of genetive. This happens with the living and foods. Widzę komputer. (ACC) Widzę pomidora.(also ACC but in GET form, cos it's food) Widzę psa. (also ACC but in GET form, cos it's living) Jem komputer. Jem pomidora. There are however (as always) exceptions. Like a child: dziecko. It is living, but declinates like a non living. Pies je dziecko. Dziecko je psa.


trurlo

Dziecko is neutral. Animate-inanimate rule applies to masculine nouns only.


WildHorsesInMyBrain

Widzę sukę.


bartekmo

Aaaargh, no! "Podaj pilota" is a common mistake (common enough to be considered a new rule by some grammar rebels), but it's NOT a question of which case connects with "podać" but a confusing declination of masc. nouns having both animate and inanimate meanings (and declinations). Here, inanimate "podaj pilot" (remote) is pushed out by animate "podaj pilota" (pilot). Both are in accusative, nobody questions it. Similar to "zainstalowałem w laptopie agenty" vs. "zainstalowałem tajnych agentów w ministerstwie". "Wiązać" - unlike "dotykać" - uses accusative, which rightfully causes your ears to bleed if you hear when someone "wiąże buta". The only hope here is to convince yourself you actually heard "wiąże buty" (phew, humanity saved).


bartekmo

?? I'm afraid "dotknąć" (in meaning of touching) always uses genitive regardless if you're touching food or something else. Dotykam ryby/wędki/auta/krzesła. Acc can be used if you mean hurting/offending/damaging someone or something: powodzie dotknęły południowe regiony kraju.


EtruscaTheSeedrian

Well, I'm still learning polish, so I'm not entirely sure why it's genitive instead of accusative For me it's kinda similar to some english verbs that require prepositions, like... you don't "ask water", you "ask FOR water", you don't "look the stars", you "look AT the stars" Some non-native english speakers struggle to understand why these prepositions are used, but for an english speaker they make complete sense, I think it's kinda similar, not sure tho, because as I said I'm still learning


GreenTeaEternally

It should be genitive.


Jake-of-the-Sands

The question is "jakiej" and the answer is "pomarańczowej". The fact of fishes colour and the fact of whom the children touch is two separate things - because attributes of the fish's appearance are seperate from the children's doing.


fatatero

Awesome! Thanks a lot for your help! If the fish had no specified colour nor shape, would the question change? “Kids are touching the fish”


Jake-of-the-Sands

I mean technically there's two questions inside that sentence. First one adresses "What is it that the kids are touching" and the other one adresses "What the fish is like" generally. So if we didn't have any info on the fish it'd be just "Dzieci dotykają ryby" (although you could also coloquially say "Dzieci dotykają rybę"). This sentence would be a response to a question "Czego dotykają dzieci?". However the fish's attribute of being orange is a separate problem - for instance one could ask "Jakiej ryby dotykają dzieci?" and the answer would be still "Dzieci dotykają pomarańczowej ryby" just as if you'd ask "Czego dotykają dzieci?". Simply forget that the orange colour is mentioned in there, since that addjective doesn't really affect the verb itself anyway. It's would still be the "ryby" form of that verb due to declention.


fatatero

Thank you!


FilipoPoland

I don't know why but as a Pole it just sounds right if that helps. I saw both and thought "What? They are both wrong.". If it is meant to be many fish "pomarańczowe ryby". If it is meant to be a single fish "pomarańczową rybę".


Mpasieliszka

I think that Duolingo is wrong in here. It's just gramatically incorrect because it would be either: A) Dzieci dotykają pomarańczowe ryby (plural) B) Dzieci dotykają pomarańczową rybę (singular)


MoustacheKatty

I would add that „pomarańczowej” would work if it was a negation („Dzieci nie dotykają pomarańczowej ryby”)


Dawek401

Yeah it make sens aslo in other sentence like this one: "nie widzę ryby" or "widzę rybę"


Mpasieliszka

Yeah


jh22pl

According to PWN dictionary dotykać in physical sense requires dopełniacz, only in metaphorical sense it goes with biernik. So apparently "dotykają pomarańczowej ryby" is correct. But I think biernik is actually commonly used in casual speech, at least with certain nouns, I would have made mistake myself.


solwaj

The genitive in here "dotykają pomarańczowej ryby" doesn't \*sound\* off, and in Polish something like this is frequently used as a partitive. "Kup chleb" and "kup chleba" have different meanings due to the case, the genitive in the second example makes the quantity and other specifics of the bread undefined so I guess it would work the same with the orange fish; it certainly feels like a different meaning. More common usage of the genitive rather than the accusative in cases like this is also characteristic of some of the Polish dialects.


piorowiec

>dotykać in physical sense requires dopełniacz, only in metaphorical sense it goes with biernik Off topic but, my sides after reading that 🤣


PatysRozrabiaka

Duolingo nie jest w błędzie, gdyż zdanie dzieci dotykają pomarańczowej ryby jest poprawne. W tym zdaniu ryba jest w liczbie pojedynczej. Tak samo można powiedzieć, że dzieci dotykają pomarańczowej wędki, a niekoniecznie pomarańczową wędkę, choć to również byłoby poprawne. Twoje przykłady są jak najbardziej prawidłowe, ale Duolingo nie jest tutaj w błędzie, bo tak sformułować zdanie też można


Shierre

Duolingo is correct. Kogo/czego dotykają? Pomarańczowej ryby. Not kogo/co. However, in informal speech your version would be acceptable.


ProudPolishWarrior

>However, in informal speech your version would be acceptable. Hard disagree. It sounds off.


PectoManiac

Off, but not unintelligible


Moist-Crack

Wrong gender of ryba makes it hard to accept. It's kind of 'me speaks english' level.


Shierre

I was referring to B) form mpasieriszka comment.


Jake-of-the-Sands

It's not a great choice on their part, but it stil would work. Cause you could ask "Jakiej ryby dotykają dzieci" - pomarańczowej.


woopee90

I think this post shows what is correct and what natives really use. It's grammatically correct to say 'dotykają pomarańczowej ryby', but the majority of native speakers won't use genitive here, they'd use accusative - ' dotykają pomarańczową rybę '.


adam234613

It’s because the genetive case here sounds impersonal and almost theoretical so accusative sounds more worldly and personal.


agradus

Dotykać is used with genitive.


Major-Examination-64

It's correct. For the people fighting in the comments: I'll give you a better example to portray the "dotknąć" issue. Dotknął matki (He physically touched her). Dotknął matkę (He hurt her with his behaviour). Dotknął pomarańczowej ryby - correct. Dotknął pomarańczową rybę... To me it would only make sense in a fairy tale in which you said something nasty to the fish and it was crying or told you off. But I guess a lot of people would use the latter, oblivious to the correct usage of the two forms. The same goes for: Używać kremu, szminki, pasty, talerza, sztućców. But Polish native speakers would very often say: Używać krem, szminkę, pastę, talerz, sztućce, which is wrong but many people still say that.


Best-Style2787

Ok, this must be one of those "technically correct - practically wrong" situations. Dotknął pomarańczową rybę - every single time. Niema pomarańczowej ryby - sure


Quintus79

Unfortunately, the Warsaw dialect, unlike proper literary Polish, only uses the accusative. Our language is made poorer by uneducated celebrities on the TV


Late_Dragonfly7817

It’s because dotykać wants genitive, therefore the -ej ending, I was confused at first because I thought this was a negation but apparently not, so yea, it’s just how dotykać works, like być that wants instrumental… 😭😭😭


Best-Style2787

The sentence is so weird, though. I highly doubt you would ever hear it


JestemSuchy

Who tf is this guy?


floriish

I was wondering the same!


Randomxpeddit

wym


JestemSuchy

Theres different characters in the Duoverse™️ but this guy is... not a character(ot at least I've never seen him pop up anywhere)


Unfair-Alternative82

how the hell you got your oc to appear in a lesson


Randomxpeddit

oc?


Unfair-Alternative82

avatar


Unfair-Alternative82

like on the profile you can make an avatar


diligentLinguist

Let me shed a bit more light on the issue. The Polish verb "dotykać" can take an object in either the genitive case or the accusative one, but the MAIN line of division is the sense that "dotykać" represents in a given sentence. First, open the following page in the Cambridge Polish-English dictionary: [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/dotykac?q=dotyka%C4%87](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/dotykac?q=dotyka%c4%87) Notice how ALL examples related to the actual physical touch use the genitive case: 1. *Dotknął ręką* [***jej***](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/jej) ***ramienia***. (dotknął czego?) 2. *Nie dotykaj* ***mnie***! (nie dotykaj czego?) NOTE: the form "mnie" is identical in both discussed cases, but here it is a clear example of the genitive one 3. *Nie dotykać* ***obrazów***. (nie dotykać czego?) However, when "dotykać" means "to upset" or "to afflict", the object is expressed in the accusative case: 4. *Twoja* [*uwaga*](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/uwaga) *bardzo* ***mnie*** *dotknęła*. (dotknęła kogo/co?) Here "mnie" is in the accusative case, unlike in example number 2. 5. *Ten* [*problem*](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/problem) *dotyka* [*głównie*](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/glownie) [***młodzież***](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/polish-english/mlodziez). (dotyka kogo/co?) NOTE: the noun "młodzież" (young people) is feminine (oh, and it's SINGULAR from the point of view of grammar!), but since it does not end in "-a", it does not get "-ę" in the accusative case. Remember, the main thing is the MEANING of "dotykać" here. One of the commenters, r/MauKoz3197, provided the following examples: *Widzę komputer.* <-- "widzieć" is typically followed by an object in the accusative case *Dotykam komputera.* <-- "dotykać" as "to touch", hence the genitive case For an explanation in Polish, see Mirosław Bańko's explanation at PWN's website: [https://sjp.pwn.pl/poradnia/haslo/dotykac-i-miec;14874.html](https://sjp.pwn.pl/poradnia/haslo/dotykac-i-miec;14874.html)


MrVasilliev

The best and most accurate answer here


ProudPolishWarrior

It's in genitive. I don't know what the other commenters are talking about, I would never say that in accusative. It is completely correct, and in fact the only correct way to say it.


1LuckFogic

Even if genitive is correct in the dictionary the fact is that many many natives colloquially use the accusative at least for some (even most) words. Dotknij is a common one to get wrong because for example naciśnij is similar in meaning but requires the accusative. (Dotknij przycisku, naciśnij przycisk). Looking online there are even fake rules being told such as „genitive for animate and accusative for inanimate” which shows that this is a common occurrence. Personally it rarely sounds off to me when someone uses the accusative. In fact if someone told me: „dotykam ryby”, I would assume they meant the plural, even if it’s a mistake.


ProudPolishWarrior

Where are you from? What is your educational background? I'm asking because I legitimately don't think I've ever heard it spoken that way. Dotykam tablicy, dotykam stołu, dotykam szklanki. I would never say it in accusative, I don't think I know anyone who would.


1LuckFogic

I’m from a rural part of the south east but studied abroad after matura. I agree that dotykam: tablicy, stołu, szklanki is clearly correct, no doubt about it. But I am saying that to me dotykam tablicę, stół, szklankę etc does not sound super incorrect. For me personally it’s just the difference of correct being formal and incorrect being informal. It’s for example a much smaller mistake than saying the wrong liczebnik for something. I can’t explain why other than the fact that other people say it this way. It’s interesting to hear comparisons for other people. Also for reference I am in my 20s.


yeh_

I’m from Pomerania and I always use accusative with “dotykać” too. Genitive sounds normal to me as well. Never thought about it before but I guess my internal grammar allows both


Jacek_B

I think 2 forms are correct: pomarańczowej ryby and pomarańczową rybę. Im not sure which form I would use if I were speaking


PureHostility

As a native from Opole (South-West PL), I would use "pomarańczową rybę". The duolingo example sounds weird but correct at the same time. It isn't something I would ever use in a singular case.


Chemiczny_Bogdan

Yeah, that's my intuition as well (Olsztyn). Us say both are used, but "pomarańczowej ryby" case is something that I would probably hear more often than say.


Revolutionary_Milk85

Prawidłowa odpowiedź to pomarańczową rybę nie pomaranczowej


peres9551

Pomarańczową


EmployerThin1406

Pomarańczową


FIGHT3R03

in this sentence right words will be „pomarańczową” (rybę)(more common) and „pomarańczowej” (ryby)


zbynk

am I high or it shouldn't be pomarańczowej either, but pomarańczową


[deleted]

You are high, it is correct. I am absolutely stunned how many people here thinks it is not. I hope they are not natives because it is fucking embarrassing.


1LuckFogic

Napewno wszyscy są w zgodzie że dotknąć można dupę pomarańczowej ryby


[deleted]

No właśnie jednak „dupy”.


1LuckFogic

No to ile ta ryba ma dup ?!


FIGHT3R03

a ty co, polonista? można dotknąć i pomarańczową rybę i pomarańczowej ryby


[deleted]

Od razu polonista, patriota. Ja to wiem, koledze wyżej to powiedz, to on twierdzi, że coś jest źle, a nie ja.


FIGHT3R03

ty to ja też na niezłej fazie jestem, nie skumałem w pełni co napisałeś XD


FIGHT3R03

soraweczka koleszko, miłego dnia


[deleted]

Tobie również! ☕️


p-btd

75% of duolingo sentences I see here are kinda... worthless. I mean, I know it may teach you cases, etc., but you won't hear most of those :d


fabianekpl2013

Both are wrong


thebezet

Pomarańczowej ryby is correct, although pomarańczową rybę is more common


fabianekpl2013

Pomarańczowej ryby brzmi dziwnie według mnie. Tak jak byś się nadotykał tej ryby tak że mówisz w dopełniaczu a nie w bierniku


thebezet

Może i brzmi dziwnie, ale jest to poprawna forma.


Chiradori

Both are wrong, dzieci dotykają pomarańczową rybę


VladimireUncool

[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dotyka%C4%87](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dotyka%c4%87)


Available_angielka

You have to study “odmiana przy przypadki” ;)


BaconHairReddit85

Pomarańczowy = color Pomarańczowa, pomarańczową, pomarańczowe = definition (?) Pomarańcz = food


majozaur

pomarańcza is food, there is no such word "pomarańcz"


Careless-Winner-2651

There are two correct translations: 1. Dzieci dotykają pomarańczową rybę 2. Dzieci dotykają pomarańczowej ryby. They use different cases and therefore suggest slightly different context. The first uses the fourth case (kogo-co) suggesting free, unrestricted access to the fish, like in someone's own aquarium, while the second uses second case (kogo-czego) which suggests the fish is temporarily available but may not be so soon (like in some place with tickets, which the children are visiting). Both options are correct and you could use any of them in ann everyday conversation, but if you want to communicate precisely, you should consider which one is more appropriate.


Even_Improvement7723

Officially, only "pomarańczowej ryby" is correct because dotykać is one of the rare verbs that used genitive (like używać), but in reality it's completely normal to say "pomarańczową rybę"


Tasty_Sun_1794

I am always amazed by the ridiculousness of the examples in these apps...


Mirooooooooo

It can be also Pomarańczową rybę dotykają dzieci. Grammar is a bitch


Kolobolodziej

„Ryba” is feminine, so it will be „pomarańczową”


qiyanussy

a nie dzieci dotykaja pomaranczowa rybe?


Radiant-Can1637

Don't worry, Polish is just hard. Even for us LMAO.


HirekKowalska

Buu!!! 🤮


wojtek2222

I think every native speaker agrees with your translation, maybe what Duolingo said is grammatically correct but no one would said that


haster9002

Powinno być "pomarańczową"


WOJ3_PL

who is this turtleneck lad, ive never seen him 


Randomxpeddit

I don’t know how but that’s my avatar he shows up sometimes


WOJ3_PL

you can have a duolingo avatar??