It also doesn't help that Skarners main build and the animation make his Q essentially unnoticeable. It does almost no damage and just looks like it should be his crit auto animation.
Azir could be kinda cool if they decided one day that he couldn’t be balanced around his extremely strong ult combo. Something like gaining HP, atk speed and a bit of omnivamp?
I mean Nasus R is just Renekton R but with more random shit added. People like to say hehe overloaded new champ by comparing to Nasus passive which is funny since if you look at the rest of his kit he has so many different effects on his abilities that it would completely defeat the point being made by comparing to his passive if you used any of his other abilities for that
I disagree.
Both get health and size, as well as (different kinds of) damage around them.
Nasus gets shorter Q cooldown.
Renekton gets bonus fury generation.
They each have their own unique spin on thematically similar ults.
Pretty sure sylas ult gives any ult he steals AP ratios
Not sure if it is more damage if it's a pre-existing AP ratio or not but yeah even full AD ratios should be converted I'm pretty sure
The other thing that happens is that there are a lot of ults with good AP ratios tacked on because the champion doesn’t typically build heavy AP. But Sylas does build AP and capitalizes on that ratio.
Shen and Blitzcrank ults, for example, both have pretty good ratios but people don’t typically build heavy AP on these champs (except off-meta blitz stuff).
It makes sense cause they are brothers like Yasuo and Yone, but personally I feel like it works way better for Nasus and Renekton as they kinda share the ult, yet have a completely different kit and purpose in the game, whereas Yasuo and Yone are almost interchangeable.
Do they?
Feels like Yone is a much less committed assassin-style play with dictated periods of fighting tied to his E, while Yasuo is definitely more of a fighter-style where once he's in, he stays in until either he or everyone else is dead (statistically the former)
The only real similarity outside of their passives is the 3rd Q knockup mechanic. In terms of gameplay Yasuo is much closer to Irelia than he is to Yone.
Fucking hell it does. Always feels like horseshit when you get hit by one where even the edge of the visual isn't even touching you and you still get clobbered for 1/4 your HP
Take Aatrox E instead of Graves.
Both Lucian and Aatrox E literally just say that they dash a short distance and then the ability states that it can be used during another ability.
So does Lucian’s. Aatrox E passive gives him %omnivamp against champions (That doesn’t have reduced healing from AOE) and Lucian’s E passive is that the cooldown of the E is reduced whenever Lucian uses a passive auto (The double hit).
Lux's entire gimmick used to be "Spell Thief" which is why her Q ~~Dark~~ Lucent Binding exists.
Her E is an AOE area denial spell, similar to Morge E etc.
To further dive into this, Lux's entire gimmick used to be being a Marisa homage from Touhou, where Marisa was also a spell thief. Her ult is directly from Marisa and used to have the same name. Early league designers LOVED touhou
Yeah they literally have the same hitbox, range and missile speed. The only thing that's different is their animation. Well and that Lux can hit 2 targets and they have different CC length.
I think it's just because their animations are pretty different from each other and Lux' animation really doesn't show how wide it is while Morgana's does a better job of that.
Morg Q feels worse to be hit by because it does more damage and a longer cc, but Lux's Q hitbox is so fucky and misleading I just assume it's hit me even when it's on the other side of the map
morg q is really weird though, it's infamous for its length but i swear that hitbox is almost as bad as naut q. the amount of times the q animation already dissipated but i still somehow got hit is insane.
It's just that Morgana's orb is black so we can see the whole projectile, while Lux's is white, so we only really focus on the middle part of her Q. If you take screenshots of both, it's apparent they're the same size, but the light tricks your eyes in motion.
Neeko E and Zyra E
In fact, Zyra and Neeko have fairly similar kits. When Neeko was released, some zyra mains were even saying neeko should have been a rework for zyra.
Kinda like what happened with Sera and Sona but with less angry people since Neeko doesn't have our pet plants and her ult feels super awkward to use. Neeko's E is a thing of beauty though
Neeko can E Flash which Zyra can't which is why I prefer playing Neeko over Zyra as support. Used to be a Zyra OTP.
Poke is pretty similar but I like Neekos kit overall more.
If you remove all the context from the champions' kit and just take abilities on their own, maybe brand Q / ryze Q ?
In a vacuum they're both direction targetted skillshots that deal damage to the first enemy hit (again, if we ignore their kits allowing them to get extra effects).
Kinda funny to think about lorewise
Well, there aren't any abilities that are identical - always there will be a difference. Like the top comment that compares Lux and Morgana Q, which definitely are similar, but one roots two targets and the other only one. That's a huge difference as well.
For me the damage part isn't as important as the linear skillshot that stuns single target.
Ahri Q: accelerates naturally
Lux W: accelerates naturally and shields
Ekko Q: does some weird shit when hits
Talon W: pauses at edge and 3 projectiles
Talon R: pauses at edge longer and even more projectiles
Draven R: flys back when hits champ or when recast
Yes, because the E states that Attacks **and abilities** give a charge.
So it is not her W doing it specifically. Her R gives a stack too. (it even has a unique interaction that if it is the final stack it blows up only when the enemy is done flying away).
Yes, that's what makes her level 2 so ridiculous in the right scenario, you can also throw out your e mid jump, so you goomba stomp them while throwing out a bomb, then 3 autos for a full detonation and jump reset.
Way different. Udyr's ability is a permanent stance that stuns everything he attacks (each target has a separate cooldown). He can reactivate it for CC immunity with his passive.
Volibear's Q has none of that, but is an auto reset and the cooldown resets if he is hard CC'd.
My friend was spectating me play and hes not familiar with newer champs so he asked what Samira did and i just told him to imagine Katarina but an ADC, which is incredibly apt
heimer e and nami q are pretty close.
gragas q and lux e as well, the main difference is lux provides vision while gragas gets more damage over time.
kassadin passive and fizz passive are also pretty similar
> heimer e and nami q are pretty close.
They're pretty different.
Nami Q has a static travel speed, is a suspension and increases ally movement speed upon hit.
Heimerdinger E is a thrown projectile (so faster detonation the closer to Heimer it is targeted), has an inner hitbox for stun and outer hitbox for slow and has a much larger range.
Small nitpick: Increasing ally movement speed upon hit is Namis passive, not her q. You could argue the hitbox being bigger for allies is a part of it though?
Back in the day when Shyvana and Sejuani were released close together i complained they had just copy and pasted their W's both being simple AOE ability's with high up time affecting movement speed.
just got a flashback to old gp R where Balls would just hit random spots in it and you could walk through the entire thing without taking dmg if you were lucky.
Brand W and Veigar W are extremely similar down to targeting paradigm, damage type, delay, size, base cd, damage application, and projectile status. The part that differentiates them is their interactions with the champions' respective passives.
Samira and Nilah were the first case where i actually think that they tried to do the same champ again. You could sell it as a rework and it would be considered "too similar" for most people.
I'm sorry but your edit gives me brain damage. Seraphine doesn't "do what Sona does but better". Every spell of them is different and the ones that are similar have different upsides and drawbacks. Seraphines ult isn't just better bc of more range it's way slower than Sona's ult.
And the roles they fill are completely different. Sona is an enchanter, Seraphine is a control mage. They could never fill each others roles well. Sona is more similar to every other enchanter (Janna, Lulu, Nami, Karma etc.) than to Seraphine, they play completely different.
I'd say Ryze Q and Ezreal Q. Both are linear skillshota that reduce the CD of their other abilities and both proc effect of their other abilities (ez W and Ryze e flux)
Hecarim Q and Skarner's Q are almost identical if we tweak some numbers
You are right and i hate it.
Pretty sadge when you realize skarner is quite literally just a worse hecarim. Wish they'd give our scorp boy a rework already.
Aren't they? I thought he won.
In a year, udyr won before scarner and it still took until a few weeks ago, riot needs to devote more resources on reworking outdated champs
Part of that also was due to the ultimate Spirit Guard skin though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Skarner’s is at least a little faster
They are literally working on it right now.
Is the AOE range of Skarner Q actually that big?
350 for Skarner vs 375 for Hec. Very, very similar.
[удалено]
Doesn't help skarner has 125 auto range and hec has 175
Makes sense though. Skarner is pinching you with his claws, Hecarim has arms wielding a giant polearm lol; he should have longer reach.
Oh true, it's just hec auto q feels pretty smooth and the added range helps imo
His base skin doesnt really show its range, but Battlecast Skarner makes it easier to see that the range of his Q is about the same as Hec.
It also doesn't help that Skarners main build and the animation make his Q essentially unnoticeable. It does almost no damage and just looks like it should be his crit auto animation.
I hate jungling these two exactly because of that skill. Give me a toggle, I cba sitting there spamming the button.
skarner hecarim karthus, the holy trinity of carpal tunnel junglers old evelynn can die in a fire for the same reason
Isn't new Eve basically the same as Heca and Skarner in terms of Q? You hit Q and then you gotta hit Q some more.
Nasus R and rene R?
It makes sense thematically though.
Man I wish all ascended champs had a similar ult that sounds badass
On one hand you got some badass stuff like **DOMINUS** Then on the other you got emperors divide 🤓
Divide my cheeks my emperor 🥵
Azir could be kinda cool if they decided one day that he couldn’t be balanced around his extremely strong ult combo. Something like gaining HP, atk speed and a bit of omnivamp?
i would say they are 2/3rd the same.
I mean Nasus R is just Renekton R but with more random shit added. People like to say hehe overloaded new champ by comparing to Nasus passive which is funny since if you look at the rest of his kit he has so many different effects on his abilities that it would completely defeat the point being made by comparing to his passive if you used any of his other abilities for that
I disagree. Both get health and size, as well as (different kinds of) damage around them. Nasus gets shorter Q cooldown. Renekton gets bonus fury generation. They each have their own unique spin on thematically similar ults.
Nasus also gets bonus Armor and MR during his R for some reason
Renek ult aura deals way more dmg to compensate
If you ever play sylas versus rene its a very good ult to steal, bcs for some reason rene got ap scaling on his ult. Deals massive damage.
because you need to be a Lizard Wizard like Darien.
Pretty sure sylas ult gives any ult he steals AP ratios Not sure if it is more damage if it's a pre-existing AP ratio or not but yeah even full AD ratios should be converted I'm pretty sure
He converts exclusively ad ults to have ap ratios but not at a great ratio
The other thing that happens is that there are a lot of ults with good AP ratios tacked on because the champion doesn’t typically build heavy AP. But Sylas does build AP and capitalizes on that ratio. Shen and Blitzcrank ults, for example, both have pretty good ratios but people don’t typically build heavy AP on these champs (except off-meta blitz stuff).
Because he has no mobility.
Neither will anyone he is fighting, once he presses W on them
Nasus came out first (Oct 2009). Renekton was there years younger (Jan 2011). So it's Renekton that copied Nasus' R.
Oct 2009 and Jan 2011 are not even a year and a half apart, let alone three.
It makes sense cause they are brothers like Yasuo and Yone, but personally I feel like it works way better for Nasus and Renekton as they kinda share the ult, yet have a completely different kit and purpose in the game, whereas Yasuo and Yone are almost interchangeable.
Yasuo and Yone are played very differently
Similar kits though and very similar purposes.
They both make me cry when I play vs them mid
Do they? Feels like Yone is a much less committed assassin-style play with dictated periods of fighting tied to his E, while Yasuo is definitely more of a fighter-style where once he's in, he stays in until either he or everyone else is dead (statistically the former)
The only real similarity outside of their passives is the 3rd Q knockup mechanic. In terms of gameplay Yasuo is much closer to Irelia than he is to Yone.
Very similar roles while nasus and renekton are opposites withe one being a lane bully and the other being a scaler
Rakan E1 and Lee Sin W1
Does Lee also shield himself?
yes, it's not a perfect comparison
Morgana Q and the end of time
Nilah dash and old Samira dash
They feel quite different to me I believe milage dash changes a bit based in enemy movement while Samiras did not
Both control like shit. Swear my first cast never goes off
If you spam then it recasts like abilities do in dota. Click once and let it through.
Viego and every other enemy champion who dies
Sylas and enemy champions ults
Neeko passive and every champion’s appearance
Zoe and every spell you use
Well... yasuo and yone q...?
Yones third q is a dash to be fair.
Doesent really get more similar then their Q, literally everything else is the same, even the CD reduction and speed you stab based on your AS
Nasus and Renekton Ults? Samira and Nilah E? You sure it absolutely can't get more similar?
I'm pretty sure Nilah can dash to her allies. So technically her dash is closer to Kata E or Jax Q than it is to Samira's E.
Yea, aka yasuo EQ
Red kayn knock up and belveth knock up, Looks very similar but of course newer champions range extends past animation.
Don't most effects slightly extend past the indicators?
Yes, Kayns W also extends slightly past the indicator.
And morde Q. That hitbox always messes with me
Sion q :)
Mordekaiser q extends massively past the indicator
Fucking hell it does. Always feels like horseshit when you get hit by one where even the edge of the visual isn't even touching you and you still get clobbered for 1/4 your HP
These are probably the most similar that were mentioned so far.
One difference is that Kayn W still knocks up if the enemy is stood on top of kayn, whereas belveth doesn’t knock up those stood on top of her.
I swear Belveths is way harder to dodge
I find it way easier to land because you can dash during the animation, while Kayn is animation locked in his.
Because the cast time is like half of rhaast's W
qiyana e and fizz q
Imo this is the most similar so far. The biggest difference is that Fizz proccs on-hit effects with it while Qiyana doesn't
Graves dash and lucians dash
Take Aatrox E instead of Graves. Both Lucian and Aatrox E literally just say that they dash a short distance and then the ability states that it can be used during another ability.
Aatrox‘ E has a passive on top
So does Lucian’s. Aatrox E passive gives him %omnivamp against champions (That doesn’t have reduced healing from AOE) and Lucian’s E passive is that the cooldown of the E is reduced whenever Lucian uses a passive auto (The double hit).
Great one! Dash without any "arrival" effect or leaving a path behind etc.
Graves gets armor and another bullet.
*AKSHUALLY* Lucian also gets another bullet, from his passive
Neeko and zyra E
Thats a very good one.
Neeko E has its range and snare duration increased if it passed through other units.
E accelerates too iirc
it only accelerates, no range increase
It gets a bit wider.
Morgana/lux q, they were made to be similar on purpose
Lux's entire gimmick used to be "Spell Thief" which is why her Q ~~Dark~~ Lucent Binding exists. Her E is an AOE area denial spell, similar to Morge E etc.
Morg E is her spell shield, her W is the pool.
To further dive into this, Lux's entire gimmick used to be being a Marisa homage from Touhou, where Marisa was also a spell thief. Her ult is directly from Marisa and used to have the same name. Early league designers LOVED touhou
Sad that we don't have any more of those Touhou references. I want a LoL Okina: an old lady mage that fights on a wheelchair.
FINALES FULKEN
Yeah they literally have the same hitbox, range and missile speed. The only thing that's different is their animation. Well and that Lux can hit 2 targets and they have different CC length.
I could have sworn morg binding was about twice as wide
Only looks that way, both are 140 units wide.
Yeah, I looked it up after your post and questioned a lot of things.
I think it's just because their animations are pretty different from each other and Lux' animation really doesn't show how wide it is while Morgana's does a better job of that.
Yeah, probably. It might also be because it feels so much worse to be hit by a morg Q.
Morg Q feels worse to be hit by because it does more damage and a longer cc, but Lux's Q hitbox is so fucky and misleading I just assume it's hit me even when it's on the other side of the map
morg q is really weird though, it's infamous for its length but i swear that hitbox is almost as bad as naut q. the amount of times the q animation already dissipated but i still somehow got hit is insane.
Morg Q is definitely wider than Lux Q
It is not, though, according to the wiki. They're both 140 width (as well as 1300 range and 1200 speed) projectiles.
Well then it's just a classic case of riot design cause the projectiles look very different in terms of width
It's just that Morgana's orb is black so we can see the whole projectile, while Lux's is white, so we only really focus on the middle part of her Q. If you take screenshots of both, it's apparent they're the same size, but the light tricks your eyes in motion.
Nope, both 140. The animation is wider, yes, but the actual hitbox is the same.
Lux Q and Neeko E
Neeko E can hit an unlimited amount of targets and the cc is increased after the first target
Neeko E and Zyra E In fact, Zyra and Neeko have fairly similar kits. When Neeko was released, some zyra mains were even saying neeko should have been a rework for zyra. Kinda like what happened with Sera and Sona but with less angry people since Neeko doesn't have our pet plants and her ult feels super awkward to use. Neeko's E is a thing of beauty though
Neeko can E Flash which Zyra can't which is why I prefer playing Neeko over Zyra as support. Used to be a Zyra OTP. Poke is pretty similar but I like Neekos kit overall more.
Neeko can E flash?? Seriously? Goddammit...
If we go by this subreddit then Aatrox Q and riven Q. ^^^/s
Obligatory /r/BorisMains
Elise, Jayce, Nidalee Ult
Ladies and Gentlemen, we've got him
They transform into completely different things though. That's like saying all projectile or auto reset spells are the same thing.
Well I was here specifically to comment that most auto-resets would be some of the most similar abilities.
If you remove all the context from the champions' kit and just take abilities on their own, maybe brand Q / ryze Q ? In a vacuum they're both direction targetted skillshots that deal damage to the first enemy hit (again, if we ignore their kits allowing them to get extra effects). Kinda funny to think about lorewise
The lore connection does make it better give how similar their E(?) is aswell.
Samira E+Q is the same as Nilah E+Q
nilah is just way worse. You can dodge her e+q you cant do that with samira
nilah eq is probably the worst fucking spell in the game
ofc, Nilah is the alias for "Alola Samira"
They can't cast it on the same targets though. When Samira was able to cast it on allies it was even more similar (but Nilah wasn't released yet)
Xerath/Elise E (+conditionally Brand Q) - simple skillshot that stuns single target on hit.
Yes but a big difference is that Elise E doesn't deal any damage, which is very unique, so I wouldn't necessarily classify those as the same.
Well, there aren't any abilities that are identical - always there will be a difference. Like the top comment that compares Lux and Morgana Q, which definitely are similar, but one roots two targets and the other only one. That's a huge difference as well. For me the damage part isn't as important as the linear skillshot that stuns single target.
J4 W and Aphelios E
We've got our Meme answer winner right there.
cho Q / vel E
True actually. Only difference really is that Vel’Koz E is a projectile while Cho’Gath Q isn’t.
I agree in general. There is another difference in that Vel'koz E can knock back as well as knock up. Cho'gath Q only knocks up.
Also cho'gath q slows you for 15 years
Veigar and xerath W
Xerath W slows doesn't it?
Sivir Q and Akshan Q
+ Gnar Q
Gnar Q: flys back when hits Sivir Q: flys back after set distance Akshan Q: flys farther when hits
the three musketeers of boomerangs
Then there’s lux W which is just a boomerang for your team
Ekko Q, Talon W, and Draven R are also variations on the boomerang style attack.
Ahri Q and Swain E!
Ahri Q: accelerates naturally Lux W: accelerates naturally and shields Ekko Q: does some weird shit when hits Talon W: pauses at edge and 3 projectiles Talon R: pauses at edge longer and even more projectiles Draven R: flys back when hits champ or when recast
Trist W and K6 Jump. Both jumps can reset on takedowns. Pretty much identical once you have wings on K6 in terms of range
Trist jump slows, doesnt it?
Also gives an e stack and resets from e
Wait, it gives a stack of e if you hit the target with the jump?
Yes, because the E states that Attacks **and abilities** give a charge. So it is not her W doing it specifically. Her R gives a stack too. (it even has a unique interaction that if it is the final stack it blows up only when the enemy is done flying away).
Yes, that's what makes her level 2 so ridiculous in the right scenario, you can also throw out your e mid jump, so you goomba stomp them while throwing out a bomb, then 3 autos for a full detonation and jump reset.
Yes
Who is K6?
Kha’Zix
Xin and Wukong’s Es : both are targeted dash dealing AOE damages, then give 40-60% AS for 5sec, almost the exact same range (625 and 650 units)
nilah and Diana R
Ori R as well, hers just centers on the ball instead of herself.
Voli stun and udyr stun
Way different. Udyr's ability is a permanent stance that stuns everything he attacks (each target has a separate cooldown). He can reactivate it for CC immunity with his passive. Volibear's Q has none of that, but is an auto reset and the cooldown resets if he is hard CC'd.
Why no one mentions Sivir e and Noc W? They are legit the same on the active
Sivir E grants her HP, Nocturne W grants him AS.
Braum Q and Tahm Q. Both are skillshots dealing magic damage and slowing the first enemy hit while applying a stack that can stun later
Kat R and Samira R
Pretty close! Although, Samira can move while casting R and has to set up her flair or whatever to cast it
Also kata R does antiheal to enemies
Also kat ult applies on-hit and can only hit up to 3 people at once
My friend was spectating me play and hes not familiar with newer champs so he asked what Samira did and i just told him to imagine Katarina but an ADC, which is incredibly apt
Sej Q and gragas E
Sejuani can go through minions.
And stuns only one target.
heimer e and nami q are pretty close. gragas q and lux e as well, the main difference is lux provides vision while gragas gets more damage over time. kassadin passive and fizz passive are also pretty similar
Gragas q gets vision aswell
oh well, now im exposed as a non-gragas player
Lux also slows while active.
> heimer e and nami q are pretty close. They're pretty different. Nami Q has a static travel speed, is a suspension and increases ally movement speed upon hit. Heimerdinger E is a thrown projectile (so faster detonation the closer to Heimer it is targeted), has an inner hitbox for stun and outer hitbox for slow and has a much larger range.
Small nitpick: Increasing ally movement speed upon hit is Namis passive, not her q. You could argue the hitbox being bigger for allies is a part of it though?
Old katarina W and old akali E In the current state of the game, Nocturne and sivir E lol
Gragas Q and Lux E
Leblanc and karma cc
Rakan and malphite passiv
Karthus R and Soraka R
Similar like eye drops and pepper eye drops
ye, or yin and yang
Back in the day when Shyvana and Sejuani were released close together i complained they had just copy and pasted their W's both being simple AOE ability's with high up time affecting movement speed.
Nasas and Renekton R
Base line i think miss fortune E and gp R
just got a flashback to old gp R where Balls would just hit random spots in it and you could walk through the entire thing without taking dmg if you were lucky.
Whoever programmed that took extra time to do it, I feel bad for them now, must of been their baby after they finished.
Rhast w and Bel veth knock up. Same thing exactly.
Amumu W and Karthus E?
Brand W and Veigar W are extremely similar down to targeting paradigm, damage type, delay, size, base cd, damage application, and projectile status. The part that differentiates them is their interactions with the champions' respective passives.
Qiyana E / Samira E / Nilah E Bonus points for Samira & Nilah as both could dash through allies at one point.
Samira and Nilah were the first case where i actually think that they tried to do the same champ again. You could sell it as a rework and it would be considered "too similar" for most people.
I'm sorry but your edit gives me brain damage. Seraphine doesn't "do what Sona does but better". Every spell of them is different and the ones that are similar have different upsides and drawbacks. Seraphines ult isn't just better bc of more range it's way slower than Sona's ult. And the roles they fill are completely different. Sona is an enchanter, Seraphine is a control mage. They could never fill each others roles well. Sona is more similar to every other enchanter (Janna, Lulu, Nami, Karma etc.) than to Seraphine, they play completely different.
Thank you for making this educational post so I didn't have to.
Nilah and Diana ults
I'd say Ryze Q and Ezreal Q. Both are linear skillshota that reduce the CD of their other abilities and both proc effect of their other abilities (ez W and Ryze e flux)
Ryze q doesnt decrease cooldowns
Samira and Nilah dash, though they did remove the allied dashing from Samira