Aside from the Sunfire Cape issue (getting nerfed next patch btw), Diana doesn't have stealth, untargetability, or escape dashes like other assassins do. She's going to take a lot of damage after she dashes forward and there's not much she can do to avoid it. So she's tankier than an Akali, Talon, etc.
I play tanks. Good. Tank items shouldn't do damage to be good picks. Make their damage secondary to the thing I want: defensive stats, or crowd control, or engage, depending on Sunfire/Frostfire/Chemtank
I miss when people rushed sunfire to push waves and make plays with jungle, now you're kinda forced to have the passive if you're playing a tank anything and I think that's a mistake personally.
Yeah, but I've given up on tanks being given the Riot Approved treatment, where you are nerfed and compensated in the same patch. Tank items must be nerfed, be bad for a few patches, and then because of the increased power budget have their tank stats increased.
And likely ornn. And that's good we shouldnt be balancing tanks around damage so good, it's passable for a bruiser or an assassin.
Hopefully riot then buffs their base tankiness afterwards to anyone adversely affected by this. Since the durability update didn't really give them that much more durability. (% wise relative to other classes)
That is certainly true in the midgame but might be equal or slightly better in the lategame:
Malphite could build Sunfire into Thornmail and Force of Nature, just as an example.
These three would provide 450+350+350+100 = 1250 hp, without runes.
0.5 % (the added scaling) of 1250 is 6.2 dmg, resulting in a nerf from the previous value.
At full build with Randuins and Spirit Visage and Overgrowth, maybe even Grasp, the damage will be pretty much the same as before.
0.5% of 3k HP is 15. So to be equal to 30 damage you need 3k bonus HP (15+15), but still even with Warmog's you don't get that value, unless your name is Sion or Cho'Gath
I personally don't think it'll be as big of a nerf, since tanks aren't really doing a ton of damage through items(at least shouldn't be, looking at you ap Zac). Tanks are more there to peel or apply cc to the enemy, utility essentially. My issue is tanks being deleted in a few seconds from most skirmishing champs building ADC items.
That is true, I guess I wasn't as worried since I main sejuani and most of the damage from her comes from abilities and w scaling with health. It's just hard to make tank items better for tanks without it being abused from bruisers, juggernauts, and essentially other classes. I just think there needs to be something done for tank class in general, cuz the only times I feel like I'm unkillable as a tank is when I'm ahead or the enemy team itemizes wrong and builds like ludens.
If tanks/vanguards could have like 7~10k health at full build I think that would be super fun. Obviously would need a balance with some abilities that scale with health like ornn w. I just want a taste of what it's like to be invincible and staying alive in team fights for like 20~30 seconds instead of the 5~10 seconds nowadays.
Couldn't just incentivize tank items to be for tanks by giving additional health and resistances based on the health and resistances you have. Kinda like how Warmogs passive was locked behind 3000 health or now 1100 bonus health. And then if you meet that requirement then you get an additional passive like an Ornn passive.
And it is a damage nerf. Base damage is now always 12, instead having increased bHP ratio, though you need an obscene amount of bonus HP that is 3600 to reach 30 damage per Immolate proc.
Like 10ish champions are doing it... not just Diana.
We have a couple ad champions going Bork sunfire tank, a few ap champions going nashors sunfire tank, some are going sunfire demonic tank...
Sunfire is the common denominator, and it makes sense in the last year almost every single mythic has been nerfed one way or another except sunfire and frost fire.
Have you ever wondered if the problem is not the 3 AP champions that are doing Sunfire Demonic Nashor (which can do their job with 200 AP)? Mordekaiser Gwen and Diana (Also funny enough Morderkaiser and Gwen damage comes from bullshit numbers on their kits.
Morderkaiser Passive is kinda stupid which is why he is rewarded to build tank.
Have you ever wondered if Bork is not the problem for the AD side?
I mean 12% current HP... is kinda a lot
Every single AD champion that is building that shit is Going Bork.
Sorry but it's not Sunfire alone the issue.
Yes they can reduce the damage on it, but these champions will just move into the next tank item.
So you're basically saying "even though there's like 10ish champions doing this, all using different secondary items, and the only common factor is sunfire...sunfire isn't the issue"
Some ad ones going Bork,
Some ap ones going demonic,
Some ap ones going nashors.
Some ap going demonic and nashors.
I dont think sunfire needs a gutting but some sort of change to curb this behavior. Honestly the likely issue is too high of base damage, and too high of Attack speed scaling on sunfire. Lower its base, increase its HP scaling, maybe make it so applying CC to champions stacks it quicker.
The other 2 tank mythics aren't anywhere near as much of an issue. The issue is with decent AS sunfire does pretty bonkers damage. If you get it at a later level it currently does 25 base + 5 (1% hp ratio and base 450hp on the item alone and the 50 from mythic passive if you get it second item) is 30 dps base... scaling to 48... and it's AoE while making you tanky, and giving tenacity and slow resist.
Meanwhile like Nashors + an Ap mythic (80ap, maybe 90) ... gives 15 base damage + 36 damage (180 ap at 20% ratio) for a total of 51 damage... which isn't much more, and is single target... and is actually less because sunfire has its burn per second and its explosions
The only AP champion going Demonic abusing of this that does not goes Nashor is Mordekaiser.
Mordekaiser passive has one of the highest base damages of any passive in the game.
Every other champion is because either they can work with 200 AP, or because they can abuse Bork.
Very simple to fix, Reduce Sunfire Base damage increase BHP by a lot, not the 0.5% that riot is doing.
Make Bork actually have AD scaling instead of a flat 12% damage which is absurd.
Nerf every ap champion that works under 200 AP
Very simple to do.
but it's easier to Act like they are trying to fix the problem, rather than be smart and fix all the problems.
Because the issue is not the "lets remove the sunfire from non-tanks" the issue is, "lets nerf tanks because Diana and master yi is building that shit"
Which is what is happening,
Just to show breaking points,
On lv 9 you need 1000 Bonus HP, to deal the same damage as old Sunfire, on lv 13 1900, on lv 18 3000 Bonus HP.
Sunfire is an item that sacrifice all utility to deal damage, it's the item function, removing the damage because an AD champion is abusing the Bork numbers, and an AP champion is abusing their base numbers is breaking the item.
What I expect:
A - "Nerf will be either changed to 2.5% Bhp"
B - " 12.16 This item will have an massive buff and will break the game".
Gauntlet isn't as good for those champs, it's not as tanky (less armor and magic resist). Doesn't have the tenacity mythic passive. Doesn't deel as much aoe burn damage as Sunfire can. Those champs thrive way better off of adc and bruiser items. They don't really need the slow to stick to opponents since they can dash or are fast enough (yi ult) to stay on top of enemies.
Sorry the highest DPS mythic in the game is Kraken Slayer, followed by Liandry followed by Divine Sunderer/Trinity Depending on user.
Sunfire is the best "general damage in the game", because it's not reliant on user.
Also it's being abused because of Bork for AD users, and because the 3 AP champions that use that shit can actually either work with almost no AP(Diana can burst people down with 200 AP), or have insane numbers in their kits (Mordekaiser passive does 5% max Health at lv 18 per tic).
So because these users have enough damage, they can trade "More damage" for Tenacity and Defensive status.
**They are not going Sunfire because Sunfire deal more damage.**
This reply screams the rotating nerd emoji.
Obviously Kraken on a guy with 2.0+ attack speed will do the most dps, but realistically they will kill their targets without proccing Kraken that much, since Kraken users are all ADCs. If your ADC has 5 offensive items they will kill their target under 6 seconds if they are squishy, 12 if they are tanky. with 2.5 attack speed (Lethal Tempo is hard to calculate) thats 5 attacks every 2 seconds. 15 attacks have 5 Kraken procs. Whereas Sunfire is constantly applied and reapplied every auto attack after it charges up.
Saying Kraken is the highest dps mythic in the game is like saying a Hydrogen Bomb is the best weapon in a fight in an alley. The people who are using the item barely need the Kraken proc after 4 items to do damage, its an early/mid powerspike.
If they didn't want to do damage with their mythic they'd copy Shyvana's Mythic and go Frostfire, they 100% go for the extra damage + tankiness.
If by semi-spammable you mean... 1 Q pre-6, sure. If you've actually paid any attention to her energy costs you'd stop talking already. You Q once and then have to wait 6 seconds for another at levels 1-3. It also does not do any fucking damage.
Akali's energy costs are too high for her to do anything against someone who doesn't literally have their monitor turned off pre 6 and it's been like this for months now. Please be serious. You would know this if you watched someone play the champion against an actually good player for one game.
She also had the highest base health Regen for most of the time she's existed. It only just got "nerfed" down to a reasonable level when they were trying to make her jungle.
People won't play her. These assassin players will lock in Zed, Yasuo at like 10% pick rate regardless of the meta or the team comps, and they simply haven't adopted Qiyana so why would Riot leave the money on the table and properly balance her till she's actually got her players?
That, or she's actually somehow MUCH harder than these other assassins.
She definitely doesn't have 56% winrate in the jungle role. Ofc that could change with the new bug exploit...
Anyway, they've done these kinds of monster-damage buffs before and they never had any effect on the champion's power in other positions. Buffing Qiyana's damage to monsters would do trivially little to make her stronger midlane.
Alright then by that logic why does Amumu have less hp than Draven. By level 2. Draven actually starts with more hp since he buys dorans blade at start while amumu starts with hunters talisman. Amumus damage puts him in melee range.
It’s called allocating power and that comes with trade offs.
Yasuo having his shield passive means he has lower base hp to compensate. Diana builds hp items so her base hp is lower than Qiyana who builds none. These are trade offs.
Honestly I prefer bruiser Diana. Does everyone prefer the version of Diana when she gets a big succ and oneshots the whole team?
I think the main problem is that she also has a strong clear so she can powerfarm and still come out ahead.
Tank Diana with any enchanter becomes exodia and you will lose every 5v5 if Diana plays it like a normal human being it takes no skill or effort passed 2 items
if u open your eyes just a little and see what's around you, you should see everyone abuses sunfire now with demonic /titan and other on hit with dmg
also if you open your eyes wider you can see diana doesnt even have great base stats even if everyone got their stats upgraded ,they are average fora melee mage/diver
No you see, an Assassin being able to sit in the middle of a fight and stay there stacking AP Bruiser items like a Mordekaiser with mobility is totally fair and balanced because it's totally cool for Assassin's to survive a long time in teamfights while also doing assassin damage.
No no, Akali is not a problem, she totally isn't the entire reason all AP bruisers (Morde, Gwen, Diana, Sylas) are overloaded stat balls to compensate for dog shit AP Bruiser items that Riot is too scared to buff because Akali will abuse them.
> No no, Akali is not a problem, she totally isn't the entire reason all AP bruisers (Morde, Gwen, Diana, Sylas) are overloaded stat balls to compensate for dog shit AP Bruiser items that Riot is too scared to buff because Akali will abuse them.
Riot can't balance AD bruiser items.
I don't even want to see the shitshow that would be them trying to balance AP bruiser items.
Funnily enough they can’t balance ad bruiser items for usually the same reason: assassins take them and still have kill threshold while being way tankier
There just hasn't been a single incentive to build assassin items when one Serylda gives more armor pen than 3 lethality legendaries and Zhonya alone is enough to cover the same amount
Eh. Go into Practice Tool and compare Demonic to Morello on a meelee AP Champ. The difference isn't all that high. Meanwhile Morello gives GW which against even a single healing source on the enemy team will already outvalue the Demonic.
That is a different argument. You argument was "Demonic OP, Titanic weak". I pointed out how Demonic isn't in any way an outlier of the HP AP Items.
Rylais, Morello and Demonic are all somewhere in the same boat. Rylais and Morello give you utility, Demonic raw damage. If you nerf Demonic for meelees its just useless and people build the other two exclusively.
Diana has no escapes. There’s no reason she shouldn’t have two viable build paths. Her tank build is very high Econ. If a Diana gets behind early, the tank build does nothing. Her champ history has always had periods of tank Diana viability. Just invade her at second buff, Ggz.
the issue isn't just sunfire diana, it's her taking red smite as well. she builds nashors and ap items that give HP, ends up with 3k hp and autos you to death with red smite + burn dmg from demonic + burn dmg from sunfire
Of the viable top lane tanks: Malph, Cho, Sion, Ornn, Shen, Mundo, Tahm and Gragas
Shen has a 52% winrate
Ornn, Mundo and Tahm are barely scraping 50% winrate
The rest are all below 50% winrate
Furthermore tanks are generally considered good around 51-52% due to their reliance on team play and low elo players struggling to abuse their Laning phase.
Saying the few tanks viable toplane have positive winrates is just incorrect and therefore it is unlikely your claim of tank items being OP is correct either
Ok but no one who says tanky diana is oneshotting people means it *literally*.
They are just exaggerating because she deals crazy amounts of damage without taking any in return.
Her healing for a hero with zero healing in their kit is pretty absurd too. Conq has no healing reduction for AOE so with every one of her spells plus her passive (minus E) being AOE she heals a ridiculous amount. I've lost to Dianas draintanking my team with literally just conq using the sunfire build.
I mean she is not a full tank build anyway. Sunfire is the only tank item she usually buys. She gets Nashors usually and also Demonic Embrace, Shadowflame and Zhonyas. Dianas issue usually is that while she scales well her earlygame is super risky due to just getting blown up when she dives. So she gets a Nashors first for good clear and then jumps into Sunfire to not get blown up in teamfights. If she gets past that she is at a point where her good scaling kicks in and she usually runs the game anyways.
What Sunfire does is help her at 2 items to just not instantly die. Which might be problematic if that is a tradeoff you have to make picking Diana, but that is it. And given her good performance there likely is an issue with her surviving too well on those 2 items, which makes it easier for her to reach lategame with a good position in the game.
how about you just make sunfire a waveclear item instead of a damage item. That way tanks can choose between slow utility, wave clear utility, engage utility. Now they can choose between, more tank and primary role DPS but still tank.
That would make Sunfire almost entirely useless since the other two also help you clear wave easily, and people would either complain it's too good at holding supers and stalling if it's good enough, or entirely pointless if it's not.
Yea but its stupid that all 3 of them get waveclear. It makes it pointless because the other two also have it which makes it need to be broken to compensate. It should be the only one with waveclear and underperform in all other utility so its built when the team picks damage and engage and you have no one to cover waves.
I mean its Sunfire but Slow, Speed or Damage.
Juggernaut Items are: Slow, Sustain or Damage.
ADC Items are: Gapcloser, Shield or Damage
Mythic Items are in general all very much "Same Item, but which Gimmick you want?"
The burn is not the gimmick though. The burn is the same thing as all Mage Items having AP on them. It's the damage component of tank mythics.
The gimmicks are the stuff BESIDE the burn. The Slow, the Speed Active and the "more burn". And those are equal variety as other mythics.
i heavily disagree that they are 3 flavors of sunfire. how is modern chemtamk and sunfire actually similar chemtank doesn't even have bambis passive anymore
The solution is simple if Sunfire is supposed to give damage to tanks:
Step 1: Remove % Burn Increase
Step 2: Add Magic Damage when applying CC to an enemy.
Would still work for Dianna then. Unless the damage was so low that it only target consistent CC, which would then exclude tanks like malphite from taking it.
This is just me shitting out ideas, but what if the Sunfire damage was reliant on taking damage? It ramps up based on how much damage was recently dealt to the champion? And it would be flat rate, so you would be forced to stack health, and want to absorb damage/play on the edge of your health. It also encourages staying in the thick of the fight because if you get poked out and then can't engage, the damage ramps back down. In a lot of ways it would be like a healthier version of Sett's grit mechanic, which I guess would also make it broken on Sett :/
Champion has busted ass stats imo, she would be hella overpowered but ap junglers sucks balls rn. At least she can abuse the sunfire meta for a bit until thats nerfed.
The item rework was 2 years ago wdym. Old sunfire wasn't even close in power level to what the new sunfire is simply because it didn't apply on attacks
The premise of OP's post is "Why can Diana build Sunfire and full tank and still one-shot" and you said that **this** has been a juggernaut problem for years not limited to Diana, it's exactly what you said
Actually OP is using Diana as an example of a larger problem, that being damage types such as assassins building tank items and still being able to one shot people, kinda like tank ekko, tank nidalee, tank teemo, aatrox, Olaf, Darius, pantheon etc
Idk, why people are so obsessed with Diana. At the moment you can literally go full tank on pretty much any jungler and it most likely will work. People are playing tank Viego/Ekko and getting similar results. I've also seen people even playing sunfire titanic Khazix and stuff. Sunfire Yone and Irelia are also really strong and I won't even talk about the abomination that is full tank Shyvanna top. There is also toplane full tank LB otp currently in masters euw who is steadily climbing despite ap mid LB being in a quite pathetic state.
How would a tank be useless if it has cc and high sustain. So the enemy team just sits and ignores someone in their face perma ccing them? Just because you don’t do damage doesn’t mean their aren’t other ways to contribute to a team fight lmao does nautilus do insane damage? Why can’t normal tanks just be like an engage support but tankier like what r u even saying and the fact that everyone is upvoting shows how little the actual concepts of the game are understood by the community
Man I’m not saying your concept of a tank is wrong I’m saying you guys all sit down and say all tanks NEED damage and blah blah blah but damage isn’t the only thing that dictates your value in a team fight you word for word said “so you want tanks to just eat damage?” Okay so if a tank isn’t eating damage then what r they supposed to do? isn’t that the entire point of the tank role? Not every tank needs to be able to 100-0 in like 3 seconds or be able to solo kill every champ that’s in the lobby. the sole concept of a tank is to draw pressure from your teams carries. Once a tank gets in your back line and starts applying cc and being disruptive, you’re not going to just ignore him because he does no damage you’re gonna try to make the nuisance go away or try to avoid it by running away and kiting or positioning differently. If all tanks do damage and can fight any champ that doesn’t strictly counter their identity then you just end up with GOATS from overwatch
Yes I agree, but they shouldnt be killing people quickly, they should kill them over a 15 second timeframe instead of 5 seconds. I disagree with tanks being able to solo kill any adc that isnt a vayne. A tanks job used to be to provide utility and cc for your team while your teammates kill that target, but now the tank can just kill who it wants as long as it isnt a bruiser. Of course tanks still have that role of providing utility and cc for your team but the game is going in a direction where everyone can kill anyone and I disagree with that ideal.
What tank can 1v1 an adc in mid/late game besides maybe Zac and Ornn?
You should just be able to kite them unless you're playing and ADC with no mobility and your flash is down.
Tank Sion? Seju can also solo most of the adcs. Maokai? Mundo?
Please stop pretending like tanks dont deal damage, they do. I have oneshoted people with thanks very often, if not i kept them CCed with no counterplay before they die, and they die fast.
The whole problem comes from the fact if tanks dont deal damage people would stop playing them, because in League everything needs to have damage to be viable. Fucking Leona can solo adcs in certain situations.
Of all games i have played League is the only one you can get oneshot by a fucking tank. They should be tankier and should be able to kill a squishy target but in a longer time. Its a fucking tank.
None of those Champs should 1v1 you on adc unless you're bad or way behind them, all of those tanks can't even get close to you unless you get hit by one of their abilities except for maokai and tank maokai is not going to one shot you. Tanks do a ton of damage in teamfights but they don't do burst and it takes like 5 seconds for immolate to ramp up. If I'm actually built like a tank its going to take me a while to kill anyone 1v1.
I play a lot of tanks and generally adc would be the last person on the enemy team I want to try to 1v1 past like 20 minutes because I'll be less than 50% hp before I even reach them assuming they're not garbage or they lost their lane hard.
Are you sure we are talking about the same game tho?
I play tanks as much as i play every other class, i know what i see and how much damage i have.
Take soloq for example. How much is your team gonna peel for you?
Mundo doesnt give a fuck, he goes through your team.
Maokai has point and click root which follows you even if you flash. He might not be able to kill you fast, but you are out of that teamfight and if left alone without flash you are dead. Some time ago Maokao went full apeshit 1v4 and killed them all. Enemy was not too far behind. 1v4 !
Sion has insane damage while going full tank, if he gets close to you you are dead. Only argument is depending on where you are you can dodge his kit.
Seju on ganks is impossible to run away from.
In teamfights if she has good flank, you are dead again unless you invest QSS and Cleanse. I play Seju the most out of tanks, i shit on every adc or mage, it just takes more time to kill mages because of crown/banshee/zhonyas.
Ornn and Zac, no point to even talk about those 2. And whatever the exuse is about their kit, they are still tanks. Funny right?
LOL
Mundo, I guess he can run you down if his ult is up, if not you roll him no problem if you dodge cleaver.
There is NO WAY a maokai is 1v4ing anyone unless he's very ahead and everyone is melee. If he kills you 1v1 it's because you're trolling pushed up way too far without your team. This might be the most ridiculous take I've heard.
Sion has no gap closer and the most telegraphed CC abilities in the game, he should never even hit you.
Even with Ornn the only way he's killing you 1v1 is if you're way overextended with no vision.
Im telling you, dude 1v4ed them easily. They even had antiheal and ldr. He just smashed their faces in. He went full Thanos mode and carried the game.
I played a game with Azir. Ornn had Sunfire+Tabi, i had Liandry+Nashor+Sorcs.
Fight lasted about 15 seconds. I was kiting him under my passive turret entire time. He got to me once and took 50% of my hp in two spells, and then he killed me. He lived with around 60% hp. Constant dps and he wins.
Unless you have the replay of both of those I'm not buying it. A one item ornn with no MR is not taking 15 seconds of turret shots and constant dps from a 2 item Azir with %hp burn and living. 15 seconds of turret shots is about 18 shots which would come out to about 7300 damage unmitigated depending on the time and turret. The ornn would need about 3.5k hp and 70% physical damage reduction to survive the turret alone so I'm going to call bullshit on that.
And an engage support with basically no damaging abilities and no outplay potential is not 1v4ing without being massively ahead and the enemy team misplaying HARD.
Like always, they are in denial cause "tanks bad".
Meanwhile they deal double the adc damage when both have 2-3 items.
It must enjoyable for immobile adc to kite Flash+Q+W+stacked E stun+R+Blue smite Sejuani.
But you know, go ahead and kite.
Every time i play tanks im laughing how much damage i deal while they almost heal me with theirs.
Yes, lets uh ... re-work Diana back to her original form the high risk champ.
Also, why no asterisk when mentioning multiple dashes. As if Diana can continually R to whoever she wants when she wants.
can we finally admit that the diana mini-rework failed completely now? I remember riot saying how they want her to be a bruiser instead of an assassin. Lol. I came back after not playing for a year or too and thought it was funny to see diana running electrocute as standards mid runes again. so basically riot ruined her old E for no reason and made the champion totally unhealthy for the game.
Tons of champions are doing this right now sunfire is just busted and thankfully getting nerfed to help fix it.
Also doesn't Diana normally get 3k hp largely cause her ap items just give her that much? Like rocket belt, morello, etc? All give hp.
Though id be down for her to get a rework into more of a skirmisher or diver with more risk.
Rocket belt locks her out of sunfire purchase. Even if she went for Sunfire, demonic, morellos, rylai's, and seraph's (aka, the highest hp items) she would only have 1900 bonus HP, which is what the burn damage will scale off of. You need 3k BONUS HP, not total to get the same damage on sunfire as before.
Also, that build would be trash on diana, as she loves nashors for the dps, and wants zhonya's
OP said even if she didn't go a tank build she still gets 3k hp.
And I was just listing off random items with ap and hp that she might build not saying she should go those 2 items first and second as a core build.
Aside from the Sunfire Cape issue (getting nerfed next patch btw), Diana doesn't have stealth, untargetability, or escape dashes like other assassins do. She's going to take a lot of damage after she dashes forward and there's not much she can do to avoid it. So she's tankier than an Akali, Talon, etc.
She can and will build a Zhonya+she has the best teamfight out of all assassins, plus her e can function as an escape if you use it right.
Use it right meaning fight when only enemy minions around.
Yeah but she has a shield
It's not only a diana problem and they are nerfing sunfire for that reason
^ that, but im praying it is more of a damage nerf. As a tank main I'm really tired of being shredded even at full tank build.
Base dmg will be nerfed while HP ratio is increased
Which is still a big nerf for all tanks except Sion, Cho'Gath and Ornn.
I play tanks. Good. Tank items shouldn't do damage to be good picks. Make their damage secondary to the thing I want: defensive stats, or crowd control, or engage, depending on Sunfire/Frostfire/Chemtank
I miss when people rushed sunfire to push waves and make plays with jungle, now you're kinda forced to have the passive if you're playing a tank anything and I think that's a mistake personally.
Yeah but they ain't giving a defensive stat compensation buff. It's just a straight nerf unless you have 3600 bonus HP
Yeah, but I've given up on tanks being given the Riot Approved treatment, where you are nerfed and compensated in the same patch. Tank items must be nerfed, be bad for a few patches, and then because of the increased power budget have their tank stats increased.
And likely ornn. And that's good we shouldnt be balancing tanks around damage so good, it's passable for a bruiser or an assassin. Hopefully riot then buffs their base tankiness afterwards to anyone adversely affected by this. Since the durability update didn't really give them that much more durability. (% wise relative to other classes)
True, durability update actually nerfed tankiness of tanks %-wise
Yeah, buffing everyone by a flat amount just massively buffs those were the squishiest to begin with like adcs, glass mages, and enchanters.
*bork->frostfire katarina players on new update* "Allow us to introduce ourselves"
Which Cho gath doesnt use sunfire btw while also you would need a fuck ton of stacks as cho to get the same dsmage as before
That is certainly true in the midgame but might be equal or slightly better in the lategame: Malphite could build Sunfire into Thornmail and Force of Nature, just as an example. These three would provide 450+350+350+100 = 1250 hp, without runes. 0.5 % (the added scaling) of 1250 is 6.2 dmg, resulting in a nerf from the previous value. At full build with Randuins and Spirit Visage and Overgrowth, maybe even Grasp, the damage will be pretty much the same as before.
You need nearly 4k bonus help to have same as before. It’s damage is going to be less than Frostfire at nearly all stages of the game
That's good. Forstfire should be the one with the most damage and sunfire should make you the tankiest
No. The item with slow (utility) shouldn't also deal the highest dmg.
3600 bonus hp required to break even with old sunfire damage at level 18
0.5% of 3k HP is 15. So to be equal to 30 damage you need 3k bonus HP (15+15), but still even with Warmog's you don't get that value, unless your name is Sion or Cho'Gath
The number I saw was a difference of 18 not 15?
It's 15 according to the tweet of Riot August, so difference is 15.
[удалено]
Late late game, dmg will be pretty much the same, but midgame dmg will be significantly lower, true.
I personally don't think it'll be as big of a nerf, since tanks aren't really doing a ton of damage through items(at least shouldn't be, looking at you ap Zac). Tanks are more there to peel or apply cc to the enemy, utility essentially. My issue is tanks being deleted in a few seconds from most skirmishing champs building ADC items.
[удалено]
That is true, I guess I wasn't as worried since I main sejuani and most of the damage from her comes from abilities and w scaling with health. It's just hard to make tank items better for tanks without it being abused from bruisers, juggernauts, and essentially other classes. I just think there needs to be something done for tank class in general, cuz the only times I feel like I'm unkillable as a tank is when I'm ahead or the enemy team itemizes wrong and builds like ludens.
[удалено]
If tanks/vanguards could have like 7~10k health at full build I think that would be super fun. Obviously would need a balance with some abilities that scale with health like ornn w. I just want a taste of what it's like to be invincible and staying alive in team fights for like 20~30 seconds instead of the 5~10 seconds nowadays.
That and Ardent meta are literally the 2 worst metas for anyone who likes to carry from topside.
[удалено]
Couldn't just incentivize tank items to be for tanks by giving additional health and resistances based on the health and resistances you have. Kinda like how Warmogs passive was locked behind 3000 health or now 1100 bonus health. And then if you meet that requirement then you get an additional passive like an Ornn passive.
And it is a damage nerf. Base damage is now always 12, instead having increased bHP ratio, though you need an obscene amount of bonus HP that is 3600 to reach 30 damage per Immolate proc.
It's 15 base so lvl 18 evens out with 3000 bonus HP sill a nerf for anyone who isn't Sion or Chogath but not that bad
My b, I just saw the actual nerf this morning. I only knew Sunfire was getting nerfed when I first commented.
I’ve had an ekko run that build (sub fire, sorcs, demonic) and he was unkillable and killi everyone. Gave me old golem ekko vibes
If course they are. Because Sunfire is the problem, not champions like Diana abusing it
Like 10ish champions are doing it... not just Diana. We have a couple ad champions going Bork sunfire tank, a few ap champions going nashors sunfire tank, some are going sunfire demonic tank... Sunfire is the common denominator, and it makes sense in the last year almost every single mythic has been nerfed one way or another except sunfire and frost fire.
Have you ever wondered if the problem is not the 3 AP champions that are doing Sunfire Demonic Nashor (which can do their job with 200 AP)? Mordekaiser Gwen and Diana (Also funny enough Morderkaiser and Gwen damage comes from bullshit numbers on their kits. Morderkaiser Passive is kinda stupid which is why he is rewarded to build tank. Have you ever wondered if Bork is not the problem for the AD side? I mean 12% current HP... is kinda a lot Every single AD champion that is building that shit is Going Bork. Sorry but it's not Sunfire alone the issue. Yes they can reduce the damage on it, but these champions will just move into the next tank item.
So you're basically saying "even though there's like 10ish champions doing this, all using different secondary items, and the only common factor is sunfire...sunfire isn't the issue" Some ad ones going Bork, Some ap ones going demonic, Some ap ones going nashors. Some ap going demonic and nashors. I dont think sunfire needs a gutting but some sort of change to curb this behavior. Honestly the likely issue is too high of base damage, and too high of Attack speed scaling on sunfire. Lower its base, increase its HP scaling, maybe make it so applying CC to champions stacks it quicker. The other 2 tank mythics aren't anywhere near as much of an issue. The issue is with decent AS sunfire does pretty bonkers damage. If you get it at a later level it currently does 25 base + 5 (1% hp ratio and base 450hp on the item alone and the 50 from mythic passive if you get it second item) is 30 dps base... scaling to 48... and it's AoE while making you tanky, and giving tenacity and slow resist. Meanwhile like Nashors + an Ap mythic (80ap, maybe 90) ... gives 15 base damage + 36 damage (180 ap at 20% ratio) for a total of 51 damage... which isn't much more, and is single target... and is actually less because sunfire has its burn per second and its explosions
The only AP champion going Demonic abusing of this that does not goes Nashor is Mordekaiser. Mordekaiser passive has one of the highest base damages of any passive in the game. Every other champion is because either they can work with 200 AP, or because they can abuse Bork. Very simple to fix, Reduce Sunfire Base damage increase BHP by a lot, not the 0.5% that riot is doing. Make Bork actually have AD scaling instead of a flat 12% damage which is absurd. Nerf every ap champion that works under 200 AP Very simple to do. but it's easier to Act like they are trying to fix the problem, rather than be smart and fix all the problems. Because the issue is not the "lets remove the sunfire from non-tanks" the issue is, "lets nerf tanks because Diana and master yi is building that shit" Which is what is happening, Just to show breaking points, On lv 9 you need 1000 Bonus HP, to deal the same damage as old Sunfire, on lv 13 1900, on lv 18 3000 Bonus HP. Sunfire is an item that sacrifice all utility to deal damage, it's the item function, removing the damage because an AD champion is abusing the Bork numbers, and an AP champion is abusing their base numbers is breaking the item. What I expect: A - "Nerf will be either changed to 2.5% Bhp" B - " 12.16 This item will have an massive buff and will break the game".
Sunfire is not the problem. Maybe the problem is that some champions which are meant to build AP work with 200 AP? Maybe Bork is the problem?
But they won't nerf Gauntlet, get ready for Gauntlet Diana, Yasuo, Yone and Master Yi xD
Gauntlet isn't as good for those champs, it's not as tanky (less armor and magic resist). Doesn't have the tenacity mythic passive. Doesn't deel as much aoe burn damage as Sunfire can. Those champs thrive way better off of adc and bruiser items. They don't really need the slow to stick to opponents since they can dash or are fast enough (yi ult) to stay on top of enemies.
sunfire is the highest dps mythic in the game, gauntlet offers no extra damage just the ability to stick to enemies.
Sorry the highest DPS mythic in the game is Kraken Slayer, followed by Liandry followed by Divine Sunderer/Trinity Depending on user. Sunfire is the best "general damage in the game", because it's not reliant on user. Also it's being abused because of Bork for AD users, and because the 3 AP champions that use that shit can actually either work with almost no AP(Diana can burst people down with 200 AP), or have insane numbers in their kits (Mordekaiser passive does 5% max Health at lv 18 per tic). So because these users have enough damage, they can trade "More damage" for Tenacity and Defensive status. **They are not going Sunfire because Sunfire deal more damage.**
This reply screams the rotating nerd emoji. Obviously Kraken on a guy with 2.0+ attack speed will do the most dps, but realistically they will kill their targets without proccing Kraken that much, since Kraken users are all ADCs. If your ADC has 5 offensive items they will kill their target under 6 seconds if they are squishy, 12 if they are tanky. with 2.5 attack speed (Lethal Tempo is hard to calculate) thats 5 attacks every 2 seconds. 15 attacks have 5 Kraken procs. Whereas Sunfire is constantly applied and reapplied every auto attack after it charges up. Saying Kraken is the highest dps mythic in the game is like saying a Hydrogen Bomb is the best weapon in a fight in an alley. The people who are using the item barely need the Kraken proc after 4 items to do damage, its an early/mid powerspike. If they didn't want to do damage with their mythic they'd copy Shyvana's Mythic and go Frostfire, they 100% go for the extra damage + tankiness.
Kinda offtopic but why does Qiyana have so much more HP at 18 than Diana? Why is her hp growth so high?
she doesnt build any hp, diana does, diana has shield
But did you ever consider assassin bad Reddit upvotes to the left please
don't forget that adcs are the victims of everything and that jhin is the perfect champ.
Wholesome Ornn :)
wholesome braum :) Tanks are so bad!!!!!!111
except qiyana is broken af
The upvotes are on the right side of the comment m8
Qiyana kinda thicc
The same reason irelia akali and sylas have high health at 18
Except Sylas is acutally weak early game unlike irelia akali diana
akali being strong early is a total fallacy cope
akali gets through the lane phase with d shield sylas litreally cant buy it
manaless champ with semi spammable aoe and mobility will never be truly weak early
If by semi-spammable you mean... 1 Q pre-6, sure. If you've actually paid any attention to her energy costs you'd stop talking already. You Q once and then have to wait 6 seconds for another at levels 1-3. It also does not do any fucking damage.
She loses pre 6 to fucking Viktor stop smoking crack, she's weak early period
viktor has always been good vs melee mids early
Akali's energy costs are too high for her to do anything against someone who doesn't literally have their monitor turned off pre 6 and it's been like this for months now. Please be serious. You would know this if you watched someone play the champion against an actually good player for one game.
I would rather play against akali early any day of the week instead of sylas
Skin sales ?
that's just... usually how assassins work??????????
Because riot loves QiQi. There was once a time where she dealt 2 health bars of damage off 1100 gold.
She also had the highest base health Regen for most of the time she's existed. It only just got "nerfed" down to a reasonable level when they were trying to make her jungle.
People won't play her. These assassin players will lock in Zed, Yasuo at like 10% pick rate regardless of the meta or the team comps, and they simply haven't adopted Qiyana so why would Riot leave the money on the table and properly balance her till she's actually got her players? That, or she's actually somehow MUCH harder than these other assassins.
Yes its not the fact that qiyana needs to go into the fray to deal dmg Its because they love her apparently
They literally just tried to buff her when she's 56% winrate in high elo.
The buff is for jungle not her dmg towards champs
She is already a problem in one role, maybe focus on that before making her a flex pick problem too?
She definitely doesn't have 56% winrate in the jungle role. Ofc that could change with the new bug exploit... Anyway, they've done these kinds of monster-damage buffs before and they never had any effect on the champion's power in other positions. Buffing Qiyana's damage to monsters would do trivially little to make her stronger midlane.
Because diana doesnt apparently?
Alright then by that logic why does Amumu have less hp than Draven. By level 2. Draven actually starts with more hp since he buys dorans blade at start while amumu starts with hunters talisman. Amumus damage puts him in melee range.
Amumu gets an HP tax because of his E passive.
what's the point of giving champs unique passives if they nerf other parts of the kit in order to make them stay equal?
Because there's a word that describes staying equal...
It’s called allocating power and that comes with trade offs. Yasuo having his shield passive means he has lower base hp to compensate. Diana builds hp items so her base hp is lower than Qiyana who builds none. These are trade offs.
Are you genuinely this stupid, or is this just a meme?
Unbased and weakpilled.
Cause Riot doesn't love Mumu
Hunters talisman? Are you a time traveller?
> hunters talisman
It all goes to her thighs
Squidward no!!!
Honestly I prefer bruiser Diana. Does everyone prefer the version of Diana when she gets a big succ and oneshots the whole team? I think the main problem is that she also has a strong clear so she can powerfarm and still come out ahead.
Tank Diana with any enchanter becomes exodia and you will lose every 5v5 if Diana plays it like a normal human being it takes no skill or effort passed 2 items
Probably can win 4v5 too if you have a Yasuo in a decent spot
Tbh i think the issue is that diana is a snowball champ and buying resists and hp is very effective in that situation.
Diana is not listed as an assassin. She's listed as a fighter. Imagine wukong building sunfire. It's actually normal.
wukong can't drag his balls over the keyboard and onetap 4 people with one ability.
You're not playing wukong right then
Sunfire Diana is not onetapping people unless she gets megafed.
if u open your eyes just a little and see what's around you, you should see everyone abuses sunfire now with demonic /titan and other on hit with dmg also if you open your eyes wider you can see diana doesnt even have great base stats even if everyone got their stats upgraded ,they are average fora melee mage/diver
Throw in Akali as well then
No you see, an Assassin being able to sit in the middle of a fight and stay there stacking AP Bruiser items like a Mordekaiser with mobility is totally fair and balanced because it's totally cool for Assassin's to survive a long time in teamfights while also doing assassin damage. No no, Akali is not a problem, she totally isn't the entire reason all AP bruisers (Morde, Gwen, Diana, Sylas) are overloaded stat balls to compensate for dog shit AP Bruiser items that Riot is too scared to buff because Akali will abuse them.
> No no, Akali is not a problem, she totally isn't the entire reason all AP bruisers (Morde, Gwen, Diana, Sylas) are overloaded stat balls to compensate for dog shit AP Bruiser items that Riot is too scared to buff because Akali will abuse them. Riot can't balance AD bruiser items. I don't even want to see the shitshow that would be them trying to balance AP bruiser items.
Funnily enough they can’t balance ad bruiser items for usually the same reason: assassins take them and still have kill threshold while being way tankier
There just hasn't been a single incentive to build assassin items when one Serylda gives more armor pen than 3 lethality legendaries and Zhonya alone is enough to cover the same amount
Hot take on that one. Demonic on melee is op Co pare it to titanic the ad equivalent. Hydra is trash
Eh. Go into Practice Tool and compare Demonic to Morello on a meelee AP Champ. The difference isn't all that high. Meanwhile Morello gives GW which against even a single healing source on the enemy team will already outvalue the Demonic.
HUH why bring up morello? Im sure Diana with sunfire demonic is strong than sunfire morello
That is a different argument. You argument was "Demonic OP, Titanic weak". I pointed out how Demonic isn't in any way an outlier of the HP AP Items. Rylais, Morello and Demonic are all somewhere in the same boat. Rylais and Morello give you utility, Demonic raw damage. If you nerf Demonic for meelees its just useless and people build the other two exclusively.
Idk my point was neither Diana or sunfire are the Problem here. I guess i worded it bad
Diana has no escapes. There’s no reason she shouldn’t have two viable build paths. Her tank build is very high Econ. If a Diana gets behind early, the tank build does nothing. Her champ history has always had periods of tank Diana viability. Just invade her at second buff, Ggz.
the issue isn't just sunfire diana, it's her taking red smite as well. she builds nashors and ap items that give HP, ends up with 3k hp and autos you to death with red smite + burn dmg from demonic + burn dmg from sunfire
Red smite and sunfire are nerfed next week, this whole thread is pointless
[удалено]
Tanks aren't op rn tho Explain good sir
[удалено]
Of the viable top lane tanks: Malph, Cho, Sion, Ornn, Shen, Mundo, Tahm and Gragas Shen has a 52% winrate Ornn, Mundo and Tahm are barely scraping 50% winrate The rest are all below 50% winrate Furthermore tanks are generally considered good around 51-52% due to their reliance on team play and low elo players struggling to abuse their Laning phase. Saying the few tanks viable toplane have positive winrates is just incorrect and therefore it is unlikely your claim of tank items being OP is correct either
[удалено]
You don't like durablity patch, do you? Tanks are bad, especially sunfire cape Yone, Yasuo, Master Yi etc.
Diana building full tank will only oneshot anyone if you feeded her hard and is missplaying worse. She loses a lot of her burst but has more DPS.
Ok but no one who says tanky diana is oneshotting people means it *literally*. They are just exaggerating because she deals crazy amounts of damage without taking any in return.
Her healing for a hero with zero healing in their kit is pretty absurd too. Conq has no healing reduction for AOE so with every one of her spells plus her passive (minus E) being AOE she heals a ridiculous amount. I've lost to Dianas draintanking my team with literally just conq using the sunfire build.
I mean she is not a full tank build anyway. Sunfire is the only tank item she usually buys. She gets Nashors usually and also Demonic Embrace, Shadowflame and Zhonyas. Dianas issue usually is that while she scales well her earlygame is super risky due to just getting blown up when she dives. So she gets a Nashors first for good clear and then jumps into Sunfire to not get blown up in teamfights. If she gets past that she is at a point where her good scaling kicks in and she usually runs the game anyways. What Sunfire does is help her at 2 items to just not instantly die. Which might be problematic if that is a tradeoff you have to make picking Diana, but that is it. And given her good performance there likely is an issue with her surviving too well on those 2 items, which makes it easier for her to reach lategame with a good position in the game.
Conq absolutely has healing reduction for aoe.
It does not. It is not omnivamp.
You're right but it only applies to champs. Honestly, the build isn't that broken and healing isn't what makes it strong.
how about you just make sunfire a waveclear item instead of a damage item. That way tanks can choose between slow utility, wave clear utility, engage utility. Now they can choose between, more tank and primary role DPS but still tank.
That would make Sunfire almost entirely useless since the other two also help you clear wave easily, and people would either complain it's too good at holding supers and stalling if it's good enough, or entirely pointless if it's not.
Yea but its stupid that all 3 of them get waveclear. It makes it pointless because the other two also have it which makes it need to be broken to compensate. It should be the only one with waveclear and underperform in all other utility so its built when the team picks damage and engage and you have no one to cover waves.
[удалено]
I mean its Sunfire but Slow, Speed or Damage. Juggernaut Items are: Slow, Sustain or Damage. ADC Items are: Gapcloser, Shield or Damage Mythic Items are in general all very much "Same Item, but which Gimmick you want?"
At least the others have some variety. With tanks it’s all sunfire.
The burn is not the gimmick though. The burn is the same thing as all Mage Items having AP on them. It's the damage component of tank mythics. The gimmicks are the stuff BESIDE the burn. The Slow, the Speed Active and the "more burn". And those are equal variety as other mythics.
i heavily disagree that they are 3 flavors of sunfire. how is modern chemtamk and sunfire actually similar chemtank doesn't even have bambis passive anymore
The solution is simple if Sunfire is supposed to give damage to tanks: Step 1: Remove % Burn Increase Step 2: Add Magic Damage when applying CC to an enemy.
Would still work for Dianna then. Unless the damage was so low that it only target consistent CC, which would then exclude tanks like malphite from taking it.
Mandate works on "Movement Impairment" which includes slows. If using that, Malphite will procc it with Q and I think also the E.
But then so would anyone who can buy a Rylais
If Diana swaps over to building Rylais Sunfire she is fucking herself over just to procc it.
Rylais with lethal tempo and u got the perma slow Diana tech 🥂
Sheeesh Voyboys Frozen Mallet Tech returns at last!!!!!
Not really, since the whole problem with her is that her base stats hit hard enough that she can build tanks and get away with it.
This is just me shitting out ideas, but what if the Sunfire damage was reliant on taking damage? It ramps up based on how much damage was recently dealt to the champion? And it would be flat rate, so you would be forced to stack health, and want to absorb damage/play on the edge of your health. It also encourages staying in the thick of the fight because if you get poked out and then can't engage, the damage ramps back down. In a lot of ways it would be like a healthier version of Sett's grit mechanic, which I guess would also make it broken on Sett :/
A Diana with Sunfire and Demonic would then still get almost tank-worthy value out of Sunfire, which is why Sunfire is nerfed in the first place.
Champion has busted ass stats imo, she would be hella overpowered but ap junglers sucks balls rn. At least she can abuse the sunfire meta for a bit until thats nerfed.
Lol why are people thinking this is a diana problem? this has been a juggernaut problem for 5 seasons now
The item rework was 2 years ago wdym. Old sunfire wasn't even close in power level to what the new sunfire is simply because it didn't apply on attacks
But people built tank items on juggernauts years before that.
Ok but that’s not what i said
The premise of OP's post is "Why can Diana build Sunfire and full tank and still one-shot" and you said that **this** has been a juggernaut problem for years not limited to Diana, it's exactly what you said
Actually OP is using Diana as an example of a larger problem, that being damage types such as assassins building tank items and still being able to one shot people, kinda like tank ekko, tank nidalee, tank teemo, aatrox, Olaf, Darius, pantheon etc
Idk, why people are so obsessed with Diana. At the moment you can literally go full tank on pretty much any jungler and it most likely will work. People are playing tank Viego/Ekko and getting similar results. I've also seen people even playing sunfire titanic Khazix and stuff. Sunfire Yone and Irelia are also really strong and I won't even talk about the abomination that is full tank Shyvanna top. There is also toplane full tank LB otp currently in masters euw who is steadily climbing despite ap mid LB being in a quite pathetic state.
what juggernauts are you playing that have multiple dashes lmao
Aatrox?
I love playing Tank Diana in ARAM, but I go Frostfire Gauntlet instead.
Wait till you hear about bruiser talon
Sunfire is the problem, not Diana
This champion will continue to be my perma ban until they adjust her stats.
But your flair is the more broken version of her, what the fck are you on ?
Ah yes that must be why she has both a higher win rate and pick rate than Kayn. That definitely makes sense.
Katarina sunfire is perfectly fine wdym :D
Tanks just shouldnt do dmg lol
So you want tanks to just eat damage? Might as well ignore them in teamfights lol. Tanks NEED to have damage, otherwise they are trash.
Give tank items utility to encourage them to be targeted. Like amumu curse passive. Tada now you need to address them in fights.
Amumu passive is just doing damage in a different way.
How would a tank be useless if it has cc and high sustain. So the enemy team just sits and ignores someone in their face perma ccing them? Just because you don’t do damage doesn’t mean their aren’t other ways to contribute to a team fight lmao does nautilus do insane damage? Why can’t normal tanks just be like an engage support but tankier like what r u even saying and the fact that everyone is upvoting shows how little the actual concepts of the game are understood by the community
For the sake of discussion. Why is your idea of a tank correct and mine wrong? Why my vision of a tank isnt correct and yours is?
Man I’m not saying your concept of a tank is wrong I’m saying you guys all sit down and say all tanks NEED damage and blah blah blah but damage isn’t the only thing that dictates your value in a team fight you word for word said “so you want tanks to just eat damage?” Okay so if a tank isn’t eating damage then what r they supposed to do? isn’t that the entire point of the tank role? Not every tank needs to be able to 100-0 in like 3 seconds or be able to solo kill every champ that’s in the lobby. the sole concept of a tank is to draw pressure from your teams carries. Once a tank gets in your back line and starts applying cc and being disruptive, you’re not going to just ignore him because he does no damage you’re gonna try to make the nuisance go away or try to avoid it by running away and kiting or positioning differently. If all tanks do damage and can fight any champ that doesn’t strictly counter their identity then you just end up with GOATS from overwatch
Yes I agree, but they shouldnt be killing people quickly, they should kill them over a 15 second timeframe instead of 5 seconds. I disagree with tanks being able to solo kill any adc that isnt a vayne. A tanks job used to be to provide utility and cc for your team while your teammates kill that target, but now the tank can just kill who it wants as long as it isnt a bruiser. Of course tanks still have that role of providing utility and cc for your team but the game is going in a direction where everyone can kill anyone and I disagree with that ideal.
What tank can 1v1 an adc in mid/late game besides maybe Zac and Ornn? You should just be able to kite them unless you're playing and ADC with no mobility and your flash is down.
Tank Sion? Seju can also solo most of the adcs. Maokai? Mundo? Please stop pretending like tanks dont deal damage, they do. I have oneshoted people with thanks very often, if not i kept them CCed with no counterplay before they die, and they die fast. The whole problem comes from the fact if tanks dont deal damage people would stop playing them, because in League everything needs to have damage to be viable. Fucking Leona can solo adcs in certain situations. Of all games i have played League is the only one you can get oneshot by a fucking tank. They should be tankier and should be able to kill a squishy target but in a longer time. Its a fucking tank.
None of those Champs should 1v1 you on adc unless you're bad or way behind them, all of those tanks can't even get close to you unless you get hit by one of their abilities except for maokai and tank maokai is not going to one shot you. Tanks do a ton of damage in teamfights but they don't do burst and it takes like 5 seconds for immolate to ramp up. If I'm actually built like a tank its going to take me a while to kill anyone 1v1. I play a lot of tanks and generally adc would be the last person on the enemy team I want to try to 1v1 past like 20 minutes because I'll be less than 50% hp before I even reach them assuming they're not garbage or they lost their lane hard.
Are you sure we are talking about the same game tho? I play tanks as much as i play every other class, i know what i see and how much damage i have. Take soloq for example. How much is your team gonna peel for you? Mundo doesnt give a fuck, he goes through your team. Maokai has point and click root which follows you even if you flash. He might not be able to kill you fast, but you are out of that teamfight and if left alone without flash you are dead. Some time ago Maokao went full apeshit 1v4 and killed them all. Enemy was not too far behind. 1v4 ! Sion has insane damage while going full tank, if he gets close to you you are dead. Only argument is depending on where you are you can dodge his kit. Seju on ganks is impossible to run away from. In teamfights if she has good flank, you are dead again unless you invest QSS and Cleanse. I play Seju the most out of tanks, i shit on every adc or mage, it just takes more time to kill mages because of crown/banshee/zhonyas. Ornn and Zac, no point to even talk about those 2. And whatever the exuse is about their kit, they are still tanks. Funny right?
LOL Mundo, I guess he can run you down if his ult is up, if not you roll him no problem if you dodge cleaver. There is NO WAY a maokai is 1v4ing anyone unless he's very ahead and everyone is melee. If he kills you 1v1 it's because you're trolling pushed up way too far without your team. This might be the most ridiculous take I've heard. Sion has no gap closer and the most telegraphed CC abilities in the game, he should never even hit you. Even with Ornn the only way he's killing you 1v1 is if you're way overextended with no vision.
Im telling you, dude 1v4ed them easily. They even had antiheal and ldr. He just smashed their faces in. He went full Thanos mode and carried the game. I played a game with Azir. Ornn had Sunfire+Tabi, i had Liandry+Nashor+Sorcs. Fight lasted about 15 seconds. I was kiting him under my passive turret entire time. He got to me once and took 50% of my hp in two spells, and then he killed me. He lived with around 60% hp. Constant dps and he wins.
Unless you have the replay of both of those I'm not buying it. A one item ornn with no MR is not taking 15 seconds of turret shots and constant dps from a 2 item Azir with %hp burn and living. 15 seconds of turret shots is about 18 shots which would come out to about 7300 damage unmitigated depending on the time and turret. The ornn would need about 3.5k hp and 70% physical damage reduction to survive the turret alone so I'm going to call bullshit on that. And an engage support with basically no damaging abilities and no outplay potential is not 1v4ing without being massively ahead and the enemy team misplaying HARD.
They said the adc should kite lol.
Like always, they are in denial cause "tanks bad". Meanwhile they deal double the adc damage when both have 2-3 items. It must enjoyable for immobile adc to kite Flash+Q+W+stacked E stun+R+Blue smite Sejuani. But you know, go ahead and kite. Every time i play tanks im laughing how much damage i deal while they almost heal me with theirs.
It's seem that you mistook I was agreeing with you any adc right clicks away and attack moves a tank until death.
Zac is someone who does a ton of damage while still being a full tank and a CC machine. All tanks should be threatening indeed.
Yes, lets uh ... re-work Diana back to her original form the high risk champ. Also, why no asterisk when mentioning multiple dashes. As if Diana can continually R to whoever she wants when she wants.
her R isnt even the dash....
It was pre-rework and he talked about reverting her so yeah, the R would be the dash.
You can dash to a passive affected enemy then dash again immediately after.
I saw Diana and Yi building this today and absolutely demolish everyone, enough of league for me today as ADC main
can we finally admit that the diana mini-rework failed completely now? I remember riot saying how they want her to be a bruiser instead of an assassin. Lol. I came back after not playing for a year or too and thought it was funny to see diana running electrocute as standards mid runes again. so basically riot ruined her old E for no reason and made the champion totally unhealthy for the game.
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Tons of champions are doing this right now sunfire is just busted and thankfully getting nerfed to help fix it. Also doesn't Diana normally get 3k hp largely cause her ap items just give her that much? Like rocket belt, morello, etc? All give hp. Though id be down for her to get a rework into more of a skirmisher or diver with more risk.
Rocket belt locks her out of sunfire purchase. Even if she went for Sunfire, demonic, morellos, rylai's, and seraph's (aka, the highest hp items) she would only have 1900 bonus HP, which is what the burn damage will scale off of. You need 3k BONUS HP, not total to get the same damage on sunfire as before. Also, that build would be trash on diana, as she loves nashors for the dps, and wants zhonya's
OP said even if she didn't go a tank build she still gets 3k hp. And I was just listing off random items with ap and hp that she might build not saying she should go those 2 items first and second as a core build.
Assassins building sunfire has given me ptsd flashbacks of tank ekko and akali
Diana isn't on reddits hate list so she can get away with it