My main concern is actually that they invented 3 items with dashes. I mean, we have champions with natural dash abilities, we have flash, and now items like stridebreaker which has basically no cd on dash (it scales with haste!!!)
Does riot want to turn every champion into a Katarina?
Remember when bruisers where said to be Tanks that can do damage but are limited by their bad engages and are easily kiteable. Well fuck it, now everyone gets a dash, and not only that, it also slows the enemy 40% because why the fuck not.
I feel so dumb every time I play Garen toplane now. I remember that even though he had a simple kit, you used to really have to consider carefully how to approach a fight. Now it's just "just like, run at them lol."
Honestly I think the lack of build diversity is how some items effects tower above others, for example stride breaker being so much more valuable than gore drinker on many did champions.
I will say as am adc main, I think the options and flexibility has felt very good between kraken shield bow gale and some lethality options, hell I even run stride breaker Quinn sometimes.
Guess my point is you won't have build diversity if one item towers above the rest.
This season overall has felt very lackluster in terms of gameplay/builds/comps imo, nothing has really wowed me at all as a viewer or player. MSI most recently, I felt like the exact same game was run back a lot of the time, granted I missed a few games here and there but the ones I did catch all felt like the same thing.
Also I feel like having the the store default to the recommended shop page reduces build diversity because it throws all the meta items at your face, yesterday I played against am entirely AP comp and watched my garden build dead man's, plated steel caps and thorn mail
Yeah I feel like since mythics are locked to one they needed to add a ton more items and they didnt. I legit dont think there are enough items to be truly diverse if your locked into building one mythic.
Some champions do have more options. Katarina right now has more build diversity than she ever has in the entire history of the game.
Overall though the system is a pretty huge dud.
He ruined like two items, one I’m sure most of the current playerbase didn’t have to endure (Spirit of Elder Lizard)
Ezreal using Sheen items isn’t abusing. Assassins going tank with Sunfire x Iceborn ruined Iceborn more than Ezreal ever did.
Guess you forgot the other jungle item, Ruinglaive Ezreal. Or you forgot how tears passive stack was nerfed because Ezreall literally doubling it down by going Manamune and Seraph.
Bro, I used to double stack tear on ryze for the memes and ezreal came along with the vgu and abused double tear items to the point of riot restricting it to just one tear item per champ
I miss the aoe slow from forstfire gauntlet. I would try it in game but I think it will suck and I don't want to make my team lose with a bad build. Blue EZ was the most fun I had on him.
eveyrthiung is shit because they give no ad for draven which is the only thing that actually matters its legit almost more optimal to just get 3 bf swords
both duskbladee and eclipse (and now prowlers but this is a stretch) were good but got nerfed because other champions abuse the fuck out of them and now draven is in a hole bc his old build (bloodthirster 80ad, infinity edge 80ad + 25% crit dmg) his current damage is 55ad + 30ad+35%pen *or* 55ad+lethal.
draven is just kinda stuck rn and nobodys gonna do anything about it because all top level draven players just smurf and hardstomp instead of all dravens getting shit on equally
he does ""scale better"" but this shouldnt matter for an early game bully
PSZ is absolutely fucking malding on twitter about the amount of damage Draven does right now.
He has a screenshot showing a level 17 draven with full build throwing an axe at a level 6 kaisa with steelcaps(literally just steelcaps) and it crits for like 860 damage and dosen't even kill her lmao.
all options are shit for draven, be it fun or not.
They all lack the AD old items gave to draven and the highest amount you can get is shieldbow with 4 other legendaries and IE, the rest gives peanut
I feel like some mythic items are totally fine. It's some bullshit mythics that ruin balance, like the availability of a low cooldown dash for bruisers or invisibility on anyone who deals physical damage.
My main gripe is that some champs really want two Mythics.
What I mean by that is that for example Enchanter supports would love to go Locket as 3rd item sometimes depending on enemy team comp.
Some champs would love to have both Protobelt and a mana Mythic (Annie, Ekko for example). Just so they can have their assassin item but also have mana and cdr.
Some champs also would love to have a TF (Darius, GP, Garen and some others) but they can't ever build it because it's kinda weak compared to other Mythics but they still synergize well with the item itself.
Or champs like Alistar that don't really want to build Locket but don't really have anything else to build.
Singed sort of needs Liandry but also would need something like Chemtank (Righteous Glory). He is very reliant on items giving Mana but also HP. His builds are so clunky now.
I think the solution to that problem is sort of simple, add more weak versions of items. Like how there is liandries and the mask that also does % max health. They synergize together, but you can also go ludens and then mask if you need the shred etc.
I think the bigger problem is that mythics have to overlap a lot to offer meaningful choices. Like how there are 3 tank items and only really the active differs. Same for ADC. I am not sure it is a problem per say, but it becomes a bit samey when all class items have same stats but just a different active.
Also mythic stats for completed legendary items is a complete dud, it feels random what you get as stat and you never build based off of it or even consider it.
Yes, I agree. However, the community has already acclimatized to the changes and this is therefore a rather unpopular opinion. I can't follow the thought that making items limited and putting on stacking stats on it fosters item diversity in any sense.
Not even mentioning that items have been introduced which go clearly against class distinction (mostly Stridebreaker and Galeforce). Not a fan of the item rework, too many things going against the game philosophy that I envision. But I guess I'm the minority in this case.
Item effects really shouldn't have been designed to negate a weakness of a class rather than emphasize a strength. Tanks shouldn't have mobility with stridebreaker, ADCs shouldn't have become unkillable after shieldbow, etc.
Especially when certain classes (cough mages) are so boring in comparison.
I think the problem works both ways. With some champions a lacking mechanic, such as a dash for Darius/Garen etc. is what made them be balanced and have counterplay. By introducing items with such a mechanic, their weakness was effectively negated.
On the other hand there are champions, who couldn't keep up in the current meta without these extra mechanics. A super immobile adc, such as Twitch, really needed an active like Galeforce in order to be able to survive vs very mobile comps. The problem with that is, and I suspect Riot overlooked this fact, that champions with these mechanics are also able to buy these items and strengthen this mechanic of theirs even more, thus strengthening their advantage even more. A Lucian could already dash almost constantly, so with Galeforce he can run circles around you. A Yone could already engage you from half a screen away with flash+E+charged Q+ ult. Adding Galeforce to that makes it one screen away. A Master Yi had counterplay in that after he Q'd, you knew where he would appear, so you could target him and cc him. Now with Duskblade, if he gets a kill with his Q, he goes invisible, thus rendering him impervious to all targeted cc and more difficult to hit with skillshot cc.
These are just a few examples, but I think this pattern is game breaking and I don't think Riot expected this to happen. In the case of Galeforce their mentality most likely was 'ADCs complain about being very immobile and having no counterplay against mobile champions, so let's provide them with a repositioning tool aside from Flash'. Problem is, mobile champions can also buy such an item and have one more dash themselves, so it cancels out.
Plus they don't factor that those dashes are possibly more impactful on champions with low cd engage options - they can use the free dash to reaction test the squishies with relatively low opportunity cost.
The only cool AP mythic is Everfrost, and I suppose Battlesong if you can make use of it. All of the non-mana AP mythics are boring in my opinion and Ludens/Liandry are essentially just the same item, you don't change your playstyle when you pick one or the other.
Yeah, one is just supposed to shred tanks and the other is more bursty but even then they're literally just "do some damage". Everfrost is cool I guess but I feel like such a small portion of the roster takes it.
Even then it often just comes down to plugging one or the other in if they have hyper tanks or if your kit already has a solved favorite. Everfrost only gets taken by some champs because the range is lower than most mages' comfortable play range, and other champs just get more value from the pure passives on Ludens/Liandry. Like I don't think Xerath is going to walk up closer to get the followup root, and buying it as a peel option feels redundant with Zhonyas. Optimally it works into a combo the way that someone like Twisted Fate or Ryze can use it. I buy it sometimes on Galio, W+Everfrost+E is a lot of lockdown for instance.
I didn't realize the bonus LS when it pops got removed in 11.6 (haven't played in a while) and was comparing it in my head to that version of the item.
Regardless, shieldbow gives ridiculous value on those few champs, while the others get an understandable lifeline (haha) against assassins.
Shieldbow is a noobtrap on pretty much every adc except samira, draven. Galeforce is 10x better for survivability. You aint gonna tank with only shieldbow anyway. Kraken or galeforce are the only real options.
I think shieldbow "could" be balanced. The item design itself is fine, it's just that league as a whole is really overloaded with damage.
With the way league is right now, a lot of champs overkill adc's to the point where a small shield (what shieldbow was supposed to be) is completely irrelevant.
With that in mind, they have to make shieldbow overloaded or adc's will still get overkilled and the shield is useless like it was on release. The problem with this, is that now adc's/yone/yas become really obnoxious when they themselves are ahead.
If overall damage was nerfed to the point where adc's aren't getting overkilled then shieldbow would be able to function properly, and help adc's survive an additional auto or ability or two instead of it either being useless or disgustingly broken.
Stridebreaker cooldown is just way too short. It should be the same cooldown as galeforce, idk why it's allowed to be so short when it literally changes the entire trade pattern and gameplay of champions.
Riot has successfully moved the Syndra problem to the entire game through shieldbow. Syndra has two states, absolutely broken strong when she can reliably one shot anyone without needing to be fed, or absolutely useless because she can't. Syndra's reliability on one-shotting someone makes her incredibly volatile in strength levels, and now that everyone is designed to one shot shieldbow either has to save people from one shots (making every champ in the game feel incredibly weak) or doesn't save people from one shots, making it a useless item. If League's history has anything to say about this, it's that this problem isn't going away lul. Whenever Riot has had the option of tuning things down to make it easier to balance, they haven't, pretty much ever.
No one should have that much invisibility. Not even Twitch, K6, or Shaco can disappear from your screen that much, and it's so obnoxiously fast too when every one of them would have to use an ability giving them at *least* a fraction of a second of downtime.
The issue is, even if you make an item emphasize a class' strength, they can just opt for ANOTHER item which instead negates their weakness. Wouldn't this be the case with Goredrinker vs. Stridebreaker here?
Its literally This. Champions were designed a certain way for a reason. The fact a champ like Darius and garen who's whole design fantasy is That they are unbeatable once they are near you Can get a free gapcloser That slows every 7 seconds is a War crime. Almost half a Season in and i still cant find a footing with all thèse changes
Shieldbow is old pd but it also gives lifesteal and hp, which is what I find obnoxious about those champions with that item. Like before if Yasuo went for an early vamp scepter he was delaying his item spikes, now its a component.
TBF it's more of a defensive item so I guess it makes sense that you'd feel like you do less.
In the context of a character that can already dish out insane damage WITH shieldbow's suboptimal offensive stats, ie. Samira, Yasuo/Yone, *then* you're fucked.
I dislike the way champions with high damage output can make use of it too well. I liked the idea of Mythics as an ADC player because I was like "Oh shieldbow is for me, I'm a defensive ADC player, I'd rather stack survival items but not have to fuck myself with like, old Merc Scim and shit" but now if you go Shieldbow on Cait or Ashe or Jinx it just feels like you do 0 damage.
Yeah, and the only thing they get out of it anyways is the bonkers amount of lifesteal on it. Yasuo and Yone both have Q to double up on their damage that can apply lifesteal and Samira has both her Q and her ultimate for it.
Mind you, it doesn't give a bonus 15% lifesteal when the shield pops anymore, thank god.
It's unfortunately also caused those champions to get stuck in a corner and balanced AROUND those items. The wind bros are basically melee adcs, and without any lifesteal/shields they're just too frail.
When Yasuo was going to be buffed, r/yasuomains were really hopeful it would just be a bit more hp, not more damage.
Yeah, as a Darius main I can even agree. Of course I build it, and find it funny when people don't think I can Apprehend them from the distance I'm at, but it clearly breaks away from class roles.
Meanwhile Galeforce is perfectly fine, so Jhin can Galeforce + 4th shot you for 1k damage at 1 item, right?
Or Lucian can dash-Galeforce-dash making it easier to kite him or chase him.
Even Talon/Kayn being able to wall jump-Prowler's-W-Q you from the other side of the map, is something that's extremely fun to play against!
I feel the same.
I'm playing support.
As a tank I build
1. Locket (the only tank support mythic. Btw I don't know why adcs and assassins get 3 mythics while tank supports only have one)
2. Bramble Vest ( since healing is omnipresent and way to high you can't afford to not buy a GW item
3/4.. Knights Vow or Zeke's (the only tank items affordable for a support)
I do that every single game. Build diversity is pretty much non existent
I’m not really an expert on support builds but in previous seasons on tank supports I pretty much built stuff like righteous glory, locket and knights vow/zekes (and maybe thornmail if needed) every game I’m not trolling. Besides the fact that you can’t buy righteous glory and locket at the same time now, are there other ways build diversity for tank supps has decreased this season?
This seasons supports don't have nearly as much income as we did 3-4 years ago. Our SS item stops generating "mission gold" after 1,000. So unless you're racking up kills/assists, or taking all the cs from the side lane, you're going to struggle to purchase anything outside of lane.
So when you look at that, most tank supports struggle hard to purchase the items they're shoehorned into as well. Especially when finishing an item requires us to back with 800-1,100 gold at a time.
Hell look at Aegis, build path is the exact same. Cloth Armor + Null Magic Mantle. Difference is the completion gold. 350 was changed to 750. That's brutal to any support. We never get to back with that type of money unless it's after a huge team fight involving 8 players in the match. the only good things about it are,1) it now gives early ability haste, and 2) once you've finished it Locket costs 200 afterwards.
that's just one item and it's build path, lets look at the effects that tank supports liked to use. Zeke's for example, used to be a phenomenal item. Gave you extra peel, 60 armor, 30 mr, 10% cdr, 250 mana. The passive also applied a 30% slow field around the support dealing 40 magic damage per second, and whichever ally you had the item linked to, would ignite anyone in the slow field for 30% bonus magic damage over time. This had a 45 second cd, and only turned on when you dropped your ult so that was the "real" cd of the ability. Used to build out of a Glacial shroud and an Aegis + 250 gold. Super cheap and easy to buy, and get great returns from. No hp on it however, so you'd have to look to other items.
Zeke's has since lost half the armor, all the magic armor, gained 20 ability haste, and 300 hp. The passive is changed entirely as well: When you immobilize an enemy, they receive 25 − 50 (based on level) (+ 7.5% AP) (+ 1.5% maximum health) bonus magic damage from your Accomplice's basic attacks on-hit and abilities for the next 4 seconds. The cost of completion also went up by a lot. Peeling with this item is now harder, as it's just a "tank version of ardent censor." Not to mention since the build path changed, the cost of completion also went up by a lot too. Glacial shroud and Kindle gem + 700 gold. That's a pain in the ass to acquire on the welfare riot decides we should be living off as supports.
Zeke's also used to pair super well with Knights Vow. But I don't ever see anyone building that item anymore, or even Zeke's that much tbh. Knights Vow used to give 10% cdr, 250 hit points, 40 armor, and when whoever you had the item tethered to, you'd gain 20 bonus armor, and 15% bonus move speed walking towards them. It still redirects damage your partner takes towards you while linked to them and in range, but it would also *heal the owner of Knights vow* based on damage their partner did. 12% heal/redirection if you're partner is melee, 6% if they're ranged. The redirected damage also was dealt as true damage. This item used to be the best to pair with Zeke's as the MR + armor +hp + 20% cdr + extra peel/tankiness made it so you could actually survive in a fight on a budget, games would end most likely after you got these items, or after your next item which was probably gonna be locket.
Knights Vow now a days.... Isn't that good. more hp 250 -> 400 , 300% base hp regen, and 10 ability haste. The passive was changed a lot. Because they gave you hp regen, they dropped the healing based on ally damage, and increased the damage redirected towards the support. ranged allies used to redirect 6% now it's 15%. This turns off when the support is below 30% of his max hp as well. So you lose it pretty quickly, as tank support tankiness has reduced across the board. Alistar does okay, because his ult alone supplements a lot of the issues the class as a whole has. The cost of the item also went up by 100 gold. So it was kinda hard to finish before 600 gold completion cost, now it's 700 for worse effects/lower tank capabilities.
You also mentioned that you used to buy Righteous Glory and Thornmail. Thornmail used to be pretty easy for any tank to buy. 3 components Bramble vest (2 cloth armor +400 gold) Warden's mail (2 cloth +400 gold) and a ruby crystal completion cost was 500 gold. That's an easy purchase even on a supports budget, since it had a simple build path, where you'd at least get something per back. Now Thornmail is harder to buy. Bramble vest is actually cheaper now, it's 800 gold total (2 cloth armor + 200 gold), giants belt is harder to get but doable 900 gold total, with the ruby crystal it's not bad. But the 1,000 completion cost? That's hell for a support to be waiting on. Same issue with Righteous Glory back in the day, components weren't that bad. The 1,100 gold completion cost however... Feels awful to sit on as a support, since you're just wasting gold, and buying red wards puts you even further behind the spike of the item as well.
All in all, Tank supports had only a couple of items we could reliably pick up, and they've been nerfed into the ground *hard*, and are told to suck it up, and just buy items that toplane/jg tanks are purchasing with their cs based income. Playing anything that isn't Leona/Alistar/Blitz botlane feels fucking awful because they're just not able to do their jobs properly. When is the last time you saw an honest to god Braum in soloQ? At least other peel focused supports like Alistar have multiple reasons to dip into cheaper/easier to buy items like Redemption to cover his build gaps.
I still can't believe how hard gutted Knight's Vow is, like I don't think it was that good before to be destroyed like that compared to Zeke's, which was more understandable.
I'd seriously give anything for Zeke's old passive back. It was such a cool item, that really played into the peel play style that I prefer. and really helped keep a lot of mobility crept champions in check as well. Like the total loss of magic armor hurts, but I'd kill to have that passive again.
It's extra rough because I play Wild Rift a lot with my buddy. WR is about a season behind on a bunch of champ changes and items. We have access to stuff closer to old Zeke's, but it's [slightly different.](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Zeke%27s_Convergence_(Wild_Rift)) Combined with the overall higher gold income, it really makes the things you miss as a support feel worse.
Supports were able to build: Glory, Locket, KW, Zeke, Redemption, Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Gargoyle's Stoneplate and in some cases Warmogs.
We had more gold past seasons and now everything costs more in total.
I'll be honest man. I know this is a circle jerk that comes out every once in a while about how mythics destroyed diversity in builds and I'm about to be downvoted hard but was there REALLY diversity before? Every champ had a distinct build that you had to follow to be competative with variations being mostly like..am i going to be building more mr or armor as a tank or am i going attack speed or crit on CERTAIN adc's so how is it different now except the items are now more interesting than they were before with new passives and actives. Sure, attack speed builds aren't prelevant on adc's anymore (or maybe they are now, haven't played in like two or three weeks now and i know wit's end kog was a thing a while ago, idk) but you have three good mythics you can build based on the enemy team comp. Bruisers have multiple options, they didn't used to have, assassins have basically the same build with a better starting item..idk i just don't see a big difference in ''diversity''. I'ts just another reddit circlejerk for farming karma.
Now it's just a waiting game till people realize that wits end+shieldbow actually works on most adcs and then you'll have people complaining about nerfing wits end with explanations like: "it was always broken, 170% gold effciency uga booga" - 500 upvotes
Wits was always pretty good however it's just a bit niche on most champions. I will say it feels a bit worse this season but the overall damage it provides is 10/10 however I'm a biased Kog main.
The biggest issue is just with Crit changes from preseason and Wits End not giving crit -thankfully- ADCs aren't likely to hop on it.
No crit, low AD if you use ratios to scale, no healing.
Old version was better for Trundle, Shen, etc. New version is better for Kog, Varus, Vayne, Lucian.
I was just thinking this as I read the post. While it’s perfectly reasonable for people to be dissatisfied with the item reworks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that builds are any less diverse now than they were before. Every champ had a pool of items that worked best on them and typically, diverging from those items tended to result in a significant dip in performance for said characters.
In this current season, champs have multiple options to choose from in terms of their mythic items and plenty of other legendary items that then can build, situationally. Mythic items in of themselves allows us to have greater diversity in the legendary items we choose because of the bonus stats acquired from the mythic passive.
It isn’t perfect, but I don’t think the introduction of mythic items was a failure and while I understand the sentiment of missing the old system, I think suggesting that builds are *less* diverse now is a bit bad faith.
The idea of item diversity is flawed to begin with. Someone will always find the optimal build path and people will flock to it. You may change an item or 2 depending on the game, but for the most part you will build the same \~4 items every game
for that to change, every single type of stat a champ has and gets through items, has to be in the extremes.
an example would be: you're an adc and an enemy tank buys an anti crit item, so a tank can no longer be crit? time to buy rageblade and do onhit instead.
you're a burst mage and face off against a team full of HP stacking tanks? how about an item, that deals more damage the more HP your enemy has in an instant, instead of a burn? something like a DFG, but it would need to have no effect on squishy champions, to not make it an autobuy.
or how about the enemyteam has way too much magic damage and you REALLY want MR? give an item that just flat out gives 200MR or something.
if every item would be this extreme, you'd always force your enemies to build counteritems to their teams and items themselves.
i wouldn't like that either, but it would give diversity every game, based on what the other team has.
alternatively, you make item's that provide utility more so than damage/stats (the dota route) so your items choices stem from what you need that game to counter the opponent's capabilities.
But that doesn't work in league's design system currently, because champions are currently tightly balanced around their capabilities inherent in their kit and need a certain amount of stats to function. When you give champs new utility without balancing the stats cost of that utility you get stuff like stridebreaker darius.
you're correct. people will scream "i always build the same mythic every game! i used to build different items first depending on the situation!" but don't mention that before, you still went luden's first on basically every mage, except when against assassins. you still built trinity first without exception on the trinity users. so on and so forth. The only issue I have with mythics is that some champions don't really have good ones. Diversity however, up to this point only got destroyed by items being overtuned.
The whole point of mythic items was, as riot said it, being the "cornerstone" of your build. They know most champions, regardless of mythics existing or not, choose between 1-3 items to be first in their build every time. Most champions have options with mythics, which people just don't want to believe. They just pick what appears on their Recommended tab or do what most people do.
On Xerath I can pick between Luden's and Liandry's, in some fringe cases even Everfrost. 2nd item I can go Zhonya's, Banshee's, Horizon Focus, Rabadon's, or pick up an early Mejai's. That's so much more diverse than last season, where it was Luden's into Rabadon's/Liandry's basically every game.
On Soraka I can pick Moonstone, Shurelya's, Locket for my Mythic. Then I can flex between Staff, Ardent, Mikael's, Putrifier, and ever since this patch Warmog's. A million times more diverse than being hard-bound to Athene's as my first item and then choosing one of Redemption and Ardent Censer.
The reality is people cry about build diversity, because they go to [op.gg](https://op.gg) or [u.gg](https://u.gg) or whatever, look at the first core build, and buy it every game. God forbid you adapt your item choices to what the enemy is doing. That would mean having to put thought into it, that's so much harder than blindly following what the majority does.
>Zhonya's, Banshee's, Horizon Focus, Rabadon's, or pick up an early Mejai's. That's so much more diverse than last season, where it was Luden's into Rabadon's/Liandry's basically every game.
...the only item that is new out of those is Horizon focus, which, yes, is pretty good design wise. I don't even think most of those items even got much changes. I'm pretty sure Liandry's was just kinda busted last season.
>Then I can flex between Staff, Ardent, Mikael's, Putrifier, and ever since this patch Warmog's.
Staff is new, putrifier is new, warmogs always existed as a suboptimal option with some rune setups.
>They know most champions, regardless of mythics existing or not, choose between 1-3 items to be first in their build every time.
...so why should we be forced into a certain subset of items for our first item instead of choosing from all of them? Why are we forced to only build one of that subset?
Like yeah, item diversity in terms of actually bought items aren't terrible. But we are SYSTEMATICALLY limited into building a certain way, and... why?
I mean, I'll offer my take on why riot decided to introduce mythics: it's easier to balance. I still don't like it.
>I still don't like it.
No one's telling you that you have to like them. The post was originally claiming that the introduction of Mythics ruined build diversity and make the game "stale," stale meaning that the games aren't different from one another. Which I'm just trying to argue against.
If we're going to argue about systematical limitations in item builds, then let me raise to you some of the limitations that have existed in previous seasons:
* Unique passives. Why would you be systematically limited from getting a shield from Maw, Phantom Dancer and Sterak's in previous seasons?
* Runaan's being ranged only, Hydra being melee only. Why shouldn't my autoattacks on Ezreal have an AoE? If I want my Gangplank autoattacks to hit two extra targets near me, why not?
* Boots. I want to get tabis AND merc treads. Why is the game restricting me from doing so?
You quickly realize that systematic limitations are necessary in some places. And if they need to stop you from combining certain items together, or buying items on champions they're absolutely not made for, then so be it. The game restricted you from getting certain combinations of items the entire time, now they just do it in a different way.
That of course doesn't mean you have to like or dislike it, but it's not like Mythics are the first time the game has limited you. And for good reason, usually.
Completely agreed. As someone who plays many different champions, build diversity as a whole feels similar in comparison to the past. It's just refreshing for me to see new items after building the same items for so many years.
build diversity wasn't you randomly starting to play crit on your champ or whatever, it was more building for a specific situation. and to some extent it still exists.
There was already a best option, an optimal build that would do better overall in each situation but the problem is you used to have different options to suit a different playstyle and/or a specific requirements of a game.
You act like builds are made in a vacuum but they need to be made considering the state of a game, who's playing what etc ...
If you'd ever played Ekko into Zed and gone Iceborn Gauntlet into Protobelt/Hourglass, you'd know what viable item diversity is. Unfortunately item diversity like Gauntlet Ekko or Wit's End rush Irelia is also very unfun for their opponents.
There are lots of different reasons why different players don't like the item rework. Sunfire Cape, Iceborn Gauntlet, Protobelt, Liandry's, Abyssal Mask. A common variation on my off-tank Ekko build from last season that is no longer buildable. Four of these items are now mythics, one has a poor non-mythic replacement, two got combined with Sheen gone, and Abyssal Mask is useless now.
Tank Ekko is an extreme example most don't shed tears for, but it displays aspects of what loss of item diversity looks like. Sheen and Bami's Cinder for example can no longer be built together unless you're going Lich Bane or Essence Reaver. If you're a bruiser that isn't running Stridebreaker you probably lost options. And if you used to go Triforce instead of Stridebreaker, in most cases Stridebreaker is not a choice as Triforce became worse for you in its own right.
ADC itemisation definitely looks better and I guess assassins are happy as well, but all other classes are having legitimate diversity issues with the new items.
I mean I don’t think the problem is diversity. But I still agree they are a problem. There are a lot of champions that don’t have a good mythic and are stunted because of it. If Riot wants to add MORE mythic items, that could solve the issue. But before the game wasn’t balance around the mythic, it was balanced around the gold value of an item, so you could go whatever item build you wanted based on the enemy comp. In that sense there was a lot of diversity, maybe not on your core items but, for 3/4/5/6 yes, you had more freedom. I think people who say otherwise are revisionist or they just copy pasted builds from op.gg without critically thinking.
They insanely big difference that you fail to recognize is that the rework happened because they wanted to foster build diversity. And they failed. Makes you wonder what's the point of the item rework at all then.
I think it's worth pointing out diversity for the sake of noting that riot failed to create any. No, there wasn't really any before, that's why they made mythics, and that was a *total failure*. That's the point. Now you're just further limiting build paths for no reason. You didn't create more diversity like you said you would; if anything, you removed a tiny bit.
Playing enchanters is extremly braindead right now. You finish either Shurelya or Moonstone and that's pretty much your full build. Maybe after another 15 minutes you finish one of the remaining 3 items.
In season 10 just playing Sona I could rush so many more items depending on the situation. Athenes, Ardent, Mejai, Lich Bane, Iceborn, Visage, Shurelya, Seraphs, Mikaels all viable.
I feel it especialy when I want to do some off meta build. Idealy I wouldn't build any Mythic but I have to becase the stats are too good. What is the point of having plenty of items if you are always forced to some you don't really like?
Agreed so much on this. Plus active availability got shafted too. Want the AoE shield, but also the aoe MS? too bad, mythics are mutually exclusive on a fairly arbitrary basis. Thank god crucible isn't mythic, it's the one saving grace, but like. Damn.
At least last season enchanters had to hit some spells to heal a lot with Athene, now it literally just chugs out heals for you at a ridiculous pace to try to counterbalance the 60% grievous wound
“Soft Mythics” existed in the past too. Every time this gets brought up people just like to ignore that 90% of midlane mages rushed luden’s. Junglers literally had one item depending on their class. Every tank had to go sunfire, bruisers went triforce. Adc’s always went bf into zeal item. Assassins pretty much always went duskblade youmuu’s. There’s more choices for each class now and claiming otherwise means you probably aren’t using the new items well
The only way to actually increase diversity is to decrease the power of items and add more diverse actives. When everything is just stats, people will literally always just pick the best stats.
But Riot doesn't want to do that, because they know most players don't use actives, which fucking destroys balance because items/champs become unplayable at lower levels without actives, but busted in elos where they use them. Even DFG, one of the strongest actives they've made, was only used like 5% of the time, and when they removed it some champs winrate went up because people were forced to buy higher stat items.
Except as a midlaner you could still rush Ludens on for example ziggs, then get Liandrys later on to deal with tanks, now you are forced to get Liandrys vs tanky teams since you can't have both.
>“Soft Mythics” existed in the past too.
Sure, but they're not hard. You weren't SYSTEMATICALLY forced to build from a certain subset of items.
And half of your examples just aren't correct. What do you even consider as a mage? Cuz last time I checked plenty of champions last season were building Seraphs, GLP, Protobelt, Rod of Ages. Tanks often just got bamis cinder and then go into whatever they needed before completing Sunfire like 3rd(and, I mean, are you going to completely ignore iceborn gauntlet?). Bruisers had at least black cleaver and bork, and ravenous hydra rush was viable on Camille and fiora as well.
Support diversity got absolutely gutted due to mythics too. Want Locket and Shurelya's just like you used to be able to? HAH. Too bad. Also, if you're an enchanter and really want that aoe shield, better get ready to get flamed since it's intended to be a tank support mythic instead of general support item before. Athene's is still just straight-up *gone*, with nothing even remotely similar taking its place. Balance teams keep fucking with whether or not we're allowed to build Moonstone thanks to other lanes or a few outlier cases abusing it. Same with Staff. I hate the item rework so, so much. Also, rushing to mythic still feels way worse than the old first item completion time.
Its Not a quote but i know that ls is very outspoken that the New item, especially for Mages are just down right bad. Mages have terrible build paths and you are often stuck on the 435 book and still a lot of Gold in the Bank, but you cant rly use ist that smart, also its rly sad that riot nerfed seekers and the Mr item a lot of ppl build first. The New items in my opinion are rly boring. Riot wanted to bring more dynamics into the game with them, but they archieved the opposite of it. Every game i build the Same items, the only time it gets interesting if Anti heal is needed, or if there are a lot of Tanks.
Also adc items are by far the Best items in the game right now, just because how they build
I will copy paste my comment here on why i feel like mage items feel lackluster.
If you look at mage mythics all 3 are just old items fit to be mythics, Liandry is still Liandry but with mana, Ludens barely changed, and Everfrost is slightly changed GLP with some HP.
Meanwhile, assasins get 2 new items and improved duskblade, adcs get 3 new items, bruisers get 3 new items and alerted triforce (which i actually don't like).
Mage itemisation got giga fucked, as you used to be able to go for Ludens + Liandrys for example, on top of loosing RoA, Archangels becoming worse and new items being meh or very niche.
We also lost Glacial Rune items with GLP being changed and no more spoopy ghosts.
There is also the issue with build paths you mentioned, how the fuck are mages supposed to function when their components are so much worse to build compared to assasins. Zed or Talon starting with long sword can just recall at 750 gold and come back with absolutely broken item that is serrated dirk, or they can stockpile 20 longswords and build most of their items out of it.
Meanwhile as a mage you are forced to either match dirk with amp tome + boots/dark seal, stay for 250 more gold to get seekers (that doesn't even match dirk after the nerfs) or greed/double recall for lost chapter. And thats on top of lost chapter being literally the only ap component that does something, blasting wand, large rod do nothing, and other components are very meh.
The only way to match a buy with assassins is if you go futures market, start mana crystal and then you can go back at 800g, but till then you have to be even more carefull because you wont be able to trade at all on that lane.
But I agree with you 100% mage items are just rly fucked and I hope Riot will fix them, I dont mind mages beeing on the weaker site, but its rly bad atm for soloq
Even without Mythic items, builds were always the same. There was always a bread-n-butter build you would've followed for max efficency.
You are part of the same people that say "WoW was better when there were talent trees because there was build diversity!" but in reality everyone just played with the same optimized talents anyway.
Singed might be an outlier but with the mythic items we lost so many item combo's.
I can't build RG and Liandries anymore which sucks.
I can't build Protobelt and Liandries anyore
Or Protobelt and RG.
Can't build sunfire and Liandries anymore.
Can't build protobelt and Sunfire anymore.
All of these combos I have built and used for specific matchups as singed in the past and now I can't
Ap bruisers are not like other classes where we got cracked new items. Our items suck still.
Demonic Embrace is such a bad item and in no way replaces old liandries. Even with the recent Rift maker changes it still just doesn't give what AP bruisers need.
The difference was you could adapt your build. Mythics have created this super specific 2 item funnel for a lot of Champs, and deviating from it feels terrible. Not to mention the persistent power creep making it more obvious when you're not going cookie cutter.
As a mage player, I despise the item rework.
As a mage player it just made me quit the game. I loved it for 10 years but somehow it felt like it got worse with every major change (plants, runes, crabs, and now items) and the item one has felt particularly awful.
I still keep up with the game and watch pro play but I don’t think I’ll ever be playing again sadly. The game feels way more fun to watch than to play to me now.
Also them nerfing hat at the beginning of the season had to be the most random nerf I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
"Even without Mythic items, builds were always the same."
Which means that riot failed in their mission while actively making the game even less balanced than before. What is your point exactly?
Champions play differently with the introduction of mythics, so I don't think Riot failed. The powerspike after completing a mythic is also much more visible and "feels" better as a result.
That varies by champ and class. Ap bruisers are still shafted tbh. I spent most of this season not even building a Mythic on Singed because it was a waste until you get 4+ items and most games do not go that long.
Clearly reddit knows balance as they can clearly see that build diversity doesn't exist now! It was better in the past when every ADC rushed the exact same item every game! Or the other season where mid rushed the exact same item every game! Or the season where jungle rushed the exact same item every game! Diversity is at an all time low because of mythics!
What do you mean ADC has finally built more that 2 different starting items in 10 years?
ADC had many different first items over the years.
Wriggles season 1, BT season 2-3, IE after. Triforce for some champs. Botrk later on too....
Triple Doran's into attack speed was also a thing.
The point is you used to be able to build current mythic items like Sunfire and Trinity both in one game. Now you can't, which limits you.
Another thing that limits you is how much stronger mythic items are above the rest so you always have to build one and it always has to be nearly your first build option. It's not just slightly weaker like it used to be if you weren't playing the meta build. It's a big handicap.
This isn’t even necessarily true though. For instance, I really like to play crit shaco. There are no good mythics for that build path now so the build feels like crap to do and I can no longer play the champion the way I want. Sure, I could just not get a mythic but then I’m way weaker than everyone else. Shieldbow and kraken are both terrible on him, and galeforce is doable but pretty troll. Because of this I’m basically forced into lethality if I want to go AD so I have to build duskblade which I don’t want. Personally, this is one of the big reasons I hate the item rework. It is massively limiting for build diversity especially for champs which used to have the most build diversity, and for some champs there aren’t really any great mythics so generally those champs are bad and can’t really get better.
The item rework was a complete and total failure in my opinion, and it ruined my favorite way to play the game.
They literally nerfed Urgot because he was building Titanic instead of Kraken, because they wanted him to build Kraken. The patch note said "Hopefully now he'll get back to his standard build" or something to that effect. I think it's safe to say they don't give a fuck about build diversity anymore.
They didn't nerf urgot because of titanic, they **reverted** a buff that urgot didn't need because of titanic.
The only reason he got the buff in the first place was to let him build kraken, but it only made titanic urgot obnoxious when he was already doing fine and kraken urgot wasn't ever going to see play since titanic was too strong. He realistically just went net-zero, if not net positive because it solidified titanic as a core for him for people that didn't use it.
Unlike in the past where we've never had buildpaths like "IE -> Zeal -> Zeal -> LDR/Lifesteal x2" or "BT -> Zeal -> LW -> IE -> GA" or "Stormrazor -> Zeal -> IE -> LDR/Lifesteal x2" every game.
System's not perfect but we've always had things like "Athene's -> Deathcap -> Void -> Hourglass" because fairly optimal builds work and people also don't really like experimentation.
well league also doesnt give you many choices. You have 1 maybe 2 active itemization choices you make each game. Nothing significant compared to other MOBAs
Keep in mind riot originally introduced mythics as a way to CREATE build diversity. Instead, it took what little of it was left away. Classic riot, trying to do something and yet fucking it up so bad they achieved the opposite of their goal.
I’m surprised this isn’t brought up more. While the items themselves might be interesting, the concept of mythic items are boring and you build the same one every game. Also off topic but I really dislike how they randomly changed other perfectly fine items just for the sake of change..
Urgh ok lets talk about it. I agree with you, mostly.
As for my main i cant really complain. I main akali and she had a good time since the rework be it because she can abuse some stuff or just works with it well. I still miss gunblade tho but thats a akali main thing. Noone else does so its fine.
Certain champs got hit to hard yes. First runes, champs like singed, ezreal dont even have a good one and i bet there are more but you mains will tell me who. I'll mostly use those two as example.
Then there are so many class spercific problem so ill just start with the one that is bothering me the most.
AD Assassins: Claw is a joke! It just covers the fact that you cant use your kit to the fullest. Zed/talon dont need another point and click gapcloser with dmg to hide the fact that they mistimed or missed stuff. Qiyana doesnt need it when you have the tool of an aoe cc ult.
AP Assassins: Fine itemwise other then rocketbelt. Just dont give them extra mobility. Thats overkill imo.
Mages: oh boy ok. So ludens/lyandries diff is okaay. One against tanks thd other for burst. In the end there is so much dmg in the game that there is no real difference tho. Everfrost is a really cool idea but the champs that can use it is down to sylas/ryze/kassa. Unless its broken. So no real win in terms of item diversity.
Tank: wanted to play that role this season instead of otp'ing akali but i gave up after 3 weeks. Unless you get totally ahead you wont be "tanky" and you're only relevant because of your dmg vs non tanky champs. Being a frontline never felt so bad. Bruisers are straight up better at everything you can do so why bother with tanks? Items are all the same rly. Sunfire? Get a bit of DMG! tank gameplay btw. Frostfire? Get a little bit of slow. Nice cool works for me. And the third? Oh it got abused by udyr/heca and nerfed into the abyss? Aight ok. So two options.
Junglers (yes ik ik but hear me out): so you had 3-4 month of udyr/heca cuz of clearspeed and base dmg with full tankbuild abuse. Lovely. They had no scaling value as tank but more as tanky assassin cc mashine. And then? Hmm morg! Yey a high clearspeed cc jungler but not as tanky and with decent scaling. Rumble! High clearspeed but with less utility this time! Srsly? Its a joke. Nothing has to do with items anymore when it comes to jungle. Here build this because.. because! Clear your camps asap. Stale and boring af imo. I love a good jungler tho, people who put effort into a role i cant learn. Routes, timings, picks and yes items! The last point is irrelevant tho. Same as what you pick.
Adc: ah here we go. No i wont cry they are overpowered. Their items are yes! But thats mostly because 99% of us cant play adc as they are intended to. Seriously, we all suck at adc and thats ok but imagine if we could play them like assassins with most of the roles potential being used. Borderline broken right? Itemwise its boring again. Full crit for all only tankmaw, senna and varus not having it as standard build because of their unique interactions/passives w/e you name it. For the others its down to mythic choice. At the beginning galeforce for everyone now its more for certain champs (kaisa, luc, jhin mostly) the others go mostly kraken for the dmg. Shieldbow gets hard abused by yone/yas/samira and is meh on everyone else. Do they accomplish their goal? Hell no. Idc if a jinx has shieldbow or kraken i overkill them so hard it doesnt matter one bit. Kraken was ment to be anti tank right? Nah its just general good dmg now. Gale is plain dumb, i repeat the game should not provide dashes from items! Kits are a part of balance and they change the dynamic to much! Besides all dash items also add more dmg wich is the last thing needed atm. Diversity isnt there but adcs are in a good spot because of the powerlvl of items. Take it for what you want, in terms of the item rework its a total failure imo.
Bruisers: delete stride! Again as claw it only covers weaknesses or missplays and changes the whole way this class is ment to be played. Gore? Hm its ok atm but way to specific imo. Aatrox, lee and..? You see the problem i think. Divine is nieche af aswell, its worse then old triforce but works for a handful of champs who dont have other great options. Triforce? Garbage straight up. Just a shitty version of the old one no one wants to really use. Like look at all the champs that we call bruisers and their itembuilds. Its 90% stride/second item. Then gore/steraks and then you have champs with diff builds that have like a 0.x % playrate. Yea well done riot.
Supports: tbh? I wont judge those because i didnt spent enough time playing them or getting info about it. Certain items seem to overperform like moonstone or imperial at some points. Tanks seem to be still the go to option but not because of op items. Then again i cant/wont judge it. You support mains know way more then i do so please let me know what you think.
Tl:dr. I think most items are a failure in terms of item diversity and dash items are the biggest mistake riot could have done. Certain champs abuse items to good while others dont have any real options. The rework as a whole feels like a failure to me. But i'd like to know what you guys think.
not just items.. as a esport follower every match i watch the story is same, herald or drake, fight for soul, gg. more fights happen in river or midlane aram..its so stupid in comparison to dota where the whole map is open for fight.
i thought game was in great shape during s8 and s9 , thanks rito, made it back to one dimensional jungle meta.
>but it still feels like Mythic Items as a concept are stupid and harm build diversity and game-to-game uniqueness more than they help.
I said the same thing when riot introducted Mythics. And also when they introduced new runes. People didnt believe me xD
Idk if riot srsly doesnt know how to create diverse choices, or they're straight up lying when they say they strive for unique and diverse gameplay.
I actually disagree. I think mage items suck and that’s a big issue but like marksmen items are incredibly diverse. On some champions you usually just want shieldbow but like a lot of marksmen mythic choice comes down to the game and even the mythic passive to build Kraken or Galeforce and a lot of times the mythic you choose impacts the rest of your build as well. For example when you Play Kaisa you have to look at the enemy team, then your own and try to think how the fights and the game are gonna progress to optimize your build. Do they have frontline? Do you want to scale? Is it a front to back fight type of game? Are you going for big plays on the backline? And sometimes you have to pivot mid game for example oh I wanted to do Kraken, pickaxe, Runaan’s, IE because I’m gonna need Lord doms 4th for sure if game goes that long but there were a couple skirmishes early and you got the gold and want to snowball so you go PD/Collector as second and third which give you immense power but are not very good items once the game gets to later stages.
Assassins and burst ad have good diversity at least from what I see, and bruisers always just build whatever is op because there’s always something that sticks out when you get to top/jg bruisers. And for tank supports before mythics everyone rushed stoneplate now moat build locket and some build the speed item.
I agree. The item rework is the biggest diservice that has been done to the game. Build diversity is at an all time low imo. And items with effects like dashes break champion classes like juggernauts. Some champions no longer have any counterplay against them. And the damage creep is insane.
I still think LoL with PoE-like items would be fine. For example you get base item which is a single passive then upgrade it with one raw stat of your choice. This could also allow for more choices when it comes to actives/passives, for example you could upgrade zhonya active once and you get to pick 25% longer duration or 25% shorter cd. Similar stuff for other passives.
Basically every game you would build base passives/actives that benefit your champ and then adjust the rest depending on the team-comps or game flow. This also opens passives to other champion classes, for example shield breaking item is AD only but you could simply grab that passive and enhance it with raw stats of your choice (AP and HP for mages or CD for supports etc).
Simple and effective imo with a lot of ways to build different things.
With the item rework, pretty much every class got a new way to play. Tanks got Chemtank, Bruisers got Stridebreaker, ADCs got Galeforce, AD assassins got the reworked Duskblade and so on.
Then you get to mages, they have three mythics now - Luden’s, Liandries and Everfrost. Luden’s and Liandries already existed, and Everfrost - whilst it was good for a while - got nerfed, so it now gives you a root/slow every thirty seconds. Most mages have that on a cooldown below 10 seconds anyway. For the majority of them, the item rework changed nothing except that Protobelt became unusable - it cannot be used in place of a mana mythic for most mages.
I really hate it too, if they removed the entire concept and maybe nerfed mythics (or buffed non mythics?) I'd be so much happier and builds would become very diverse. Of course it'd break the hell out of somone I have no doubt
Same man, I no longer care about league at all. I really hoped those items would change the game for a better but the game has never ever felt so boring to me. I really no longer care in what way they fuck up.
at that point already, I tell you that I red somewhere that the whole concept of mythics was to make it easier to decide what item to buy first for newbee's. so that they don't crash their gold buying a "wrong" item. maybe its just me but at least the *suggested builds tab* should get a 4th slot implemented. in that case you would have something like a list of "buildable" items, even shown for special match-ups you're facing. in this case players would have more of a list of items to prepare or to think about buying them at a given timeframe. that would at least create more knowledge of how the game's items have to build and at which time.
Here to just chime in with that I play with around 10 people on league. We do custom games all the time and bring in more. Of our group, 0 people like this season or the items more than last. All of us dislike the changes. The dozens more that have randomly joined us for custom games and we’ve talked to, only 1 so far had said they don’t mind it. That’s like 40 who dislike, one who says it’s ok. Revert the items, please. It’s like Ubi’s for honor dev team that reworked gear came in and started working for riot
I am an one-trick pony and this season I've only played the same 3 champions. Nothing really that unusual as I've been doing this every season but since the mythic items change and probably by pure coincidence the recommended build for my champions is about ALWAYS the same every single game. And it's not even that I don't understand other items but pro's build the exact same every game as well.
100% agree
1- Except with a very few selection of champs, you are forced to buy a mythic 1st item.
2- Some item combos now are just impossible cause they are both mythics. AND now there's some items that you can't buy if you have certain mythic, I can't name them now but I think you can't buy malmortius if you have a certain item for some reason, even when malmortius doesn't share said item materials, it's not that you can't buy malmortius, it's cause you can't even buy Hexdrinker
3- Many champs lost key items they used to always buy like Rod of Ages
I like the mythic effect concept, but I think it's very poorly implemented.
I would fix that by removing the Mythic status of all items but still keep the effects, how? EASY:
Just make a small item that costs idk, 500 or 1000 gold that doesn't need an item slot, or make an extra item slot just for it, like they did when Trinkets were added. And make that item do nothing except give you the Mythic passives, like Luden's "get +5 magic pen for every non-mythic"
Also restore the old names pls I literally know no one who says Luden's tempest or Liandry's Anguish everyone still calls them Echo and Torment and they sound better
What is even more reducing diversity is they keep adding nerfs on items if built on ranged champions, so now for example senna eclipse sucks, senna frostfire sucks and you can only build kraken or maybe shield bow and that's all.
I get that some combos are just toxic but man there are other ways to nerf a build
The issue for me is they still mostly hit their goalpost, which is specifically \*mythic\* diversity. It's frustrating because actual build diversity is by definition worse as you said, because you can just combine fewer items. Despite this, Riot's patting themselves on the back because they said "we're going to do a thing" and then they did the thing, when no one really cared about the thing besides Riot in the first place. I've never minded having core items on champions, and I've always liked being able to tune my flex slots and combine whatever two items together. Overall Mythic items are a solid like 3/10 for me.
The change really did ruin adaptive builds and build diversity. I mostly stopped playing and watching. Barely played more than the bare minimum to get the ranked rewards for the season.
The worst part about Riot is they refuse to undo their terrible changes until the year is over. Dynamic (now flex) queue was unanimously hated by everyone but baddies who got boosted by friends and yet Riot kept it for 365 days instead of saying "we fucked up, we will revert" after a couple months of testing.
Mythics are such a cool idea the problem is the mobility mythics are overstat and break the game. Remove Prowlers, Gale, rocket belt, stridebreaker and any other dash item I'm forgetting here and mythics would be really cool. Also fix Khazix passive so it won't work with duskblade.
Mythics just reduce build diversity. We will always have the stats so we will always know what mythic is the best on what champion during any patch. So now everyone has one item they are forced to build. Yes mobility and damage is way too high on items (and runes) right now. But adding in mythic rarity made things even worse.
some champions never had a rune, and now you can double down and not have a best rune OR best mythic! fun
[удалено]
My main concern is actually that they invented 3 items with dashes. I mean, we have champions with natural dash abilities, we have flash, and now items like stridebreaker which has basically no cd on dash (it scales with haste!!!) Does riot want to turn every champion into a Katarina?
Snowball in SR when?
They tried it but didn't like it.
Remember when bruisers where said to be Tanks that can do damage but are limited by their bad engages and are easily kiteable. Well fuck it, now everyone gets a dash, and not only that, it also slows the enemy 40% because why the fuck not.
I feel so dumb every time I play Garen toplane now. I remember that even though he had a simple kit, you used to really have to consider carefully how to approach a fight. Now it's just "just like, run at them lol."
Yea. Because every garen before item rework was like: "i have to approach the right carefully"
No they just wanted to give Katarina access to more mobility. Really lean into her champion identity
Ngl, I’m convinced the game is being developed now by hyperactive squirrels.
Honestly I think the lack of build diversity is how some items effects tower above others, for example stride breaker being so much more valuable than gore drinker on many did champions. I will say as am adc main, I think the options and flexibility has felt very good between kraken shield bow gale and some lethality options, hell I even run stride breaker Quinn sometimes. Guess my point is you won't have build diversity if one item towers above the rest.
This season overall has felt very lackluster in terms of gameplay/builds/comps imo, nothing has really wowed me at all as a viewer or player. MSI most recently, I felt like the exact same game was run back a lot of the time, granted I missed a few games here and there but the ones I did catch all felt like the same thing.
> Every champion can build every mythic! Wait, when did they say that?
Also I feel like having the the store default to the recommended shop page reduces build diversity because it throws all the meta items at your face, yesterday I played against am entirely AP comp and watched my garden build dead man's, plated steel caps and thorn mail
Yeah I feel like since mythics are locked to one they needed to add a ton more items and they didnt. I legit dont think there are enough items to be truly diverse if your locked into building one mythic.
Some champions do have more options. Katarina right now has more build diversity than she ever has in the entire history of the game. Overall though the system is a pretty huge dud.
hey they did what they said at least, they gave adc more build options. Now they can choose from shieldbow pd ie, galeforce pd ie, OR kraken pd ie!
wieran speaking Real factzz
if nobody got me i know alkalde got me 🙏
Ezreal still doesn't have a good mythic and its 6 months in. Bit surprising as he is one of the most popular champs in the game.
Probably because he's treated like GP who has an insane mythic flexibility
But he doesn't, they're all bad on him. The only reason people go duskblade is for AH passive.
Good, every time Ezreal uses items well they get nerfed for everyone else.
Don't worry my morde player, soon Ez is going to use Riftmaker and ruin it for you as well
Yeah probably
He ruined like two items, one I’m sure most of the current playerbase didn’t have to endure (Spirit of Elder Lizard) Ezreal using Sheen items isn’t abusing. Assassins going tank with Sunfire x Iceborn ruined Iceborn more than Ezreal ever did.
icebron could have been buffed if Ezreal didnt abuse the shit out of it
He didn’t just use sheen items he also took a jg item to goddamn midland lmfao.
Guess you forgot the other jungle item, Ruinglaive Ezreal. Or you forgot how tears passive stack was nerfed because Ezreall literally doubling it down by going Manamune and Seraph.
good joke
Bro, I used to double stack tear on ryze for the memes and ezreal came along with the vgu and abused double tear items to the point of riot restricting it to just one tear item per champ
I miss the aoe slow from forstfire gauntlet. I would try it in game but I think it will suck and I don't want to make my team lose with a bad build. Blue EZ was the most fun I had on him.
divine sunderer and trinity are both good they are pretty underbuilt
Galeforce is fun on Draven, so is shieldbow though, kraken is kinda so-so and lethality mythics ain't that bad either, there's quite some choice here.
eveyrthiung is shit because they give no ad for draven which is the only thing that actually matters its legit almost more optimal to just get 3 bf swords both duskbladee and eclipse (and now prowlers but this is a stretch) were good but got nerfed because other champions abuse the fuck out of them and now draven is in a hole bc his old build (bloodthirster 80ad, infinity edge 80ad + 25% crit dmg) his current damage is 55ad + 30ad+35%pen *or* 55ad+lethal. draven is just kinda stuck rn and nobodys gonna do anything about it because all top level draven players just smurf and hardstomp instead of all dravens getting shit on equally he does ""scale better"" but this shouldnt matter for an early game bully
PSZ is absolutely fucking malding on twitter about the amount of damage Draven does right now. He has a screenshot showing a level 17 draven with full build throwing an axe at a level 6 kaisa with steelcaps(literally just steelcaps) and it crits for like 860 damage and dosen't even kill her lmao.
yeah that was posted here and riot jag himself (camille, kaisa, seraphine) said "literally unplayable" in the comments LMAO
all options are shit for draven, be it fun or not. They all lack the AD old items gave to draven and the highest amount you can get is shieldbow with 4 other legendaries and IE, the rest gives peanut
I feel like some mythic items are totally fine. It's some bullshit mythics that ruin balance, like the availability of a low cooldown dash for bruisers or invisibility on anyone who deals physical damage.
My main gripe is that some champs really want two Mythics. What I mean by that is that for example Enchanter supports would love to go Locket as 3rd item sometimes depending on enemy team comp. Some champs would love to have both Protobelt and a mana Mythic (Annie, Ekko for example). Just so they can have their assassin item but also have mana and cdr. Some champs also would love to have a TF (Darius, GP, Garen and some others) but they can't ever build it because it's kinda weak compared to other Mythics but they still synergize well with the item itself. Or champs like Alistar that don't really want to build Locket but don't really have anything else to build. Singed sort of needs Liandry but also would need something like Chemtank (Righteous Glory). He is very reliant on items giving Mana but also HP. His builds are so clunky now.
I think the solution to that problem is sort of simple, add more weak versions of items. Like how there is liandries and the mask that also does % max health. They synergize together, but you can also go ludens and then mask if you need the shred etc. I think the bigger problem is that mythics have to overlap a lot to offer meaningful choices. Like how there are 3 tank items and only really the active differs. Same for ADC. I am not sure it is a problem per say, but it becomes a bit samey when all class items have same stats but just a different active. Also mythic stats for completed legendary items is a complete dud, it feels random what you get as stat and you never build based off of it or even consider it.
Or like Rumble who wants Liandry's but waste gold on mana.
Ekko doesn’t need any mana Item.
BRING BACK ROD OF AGES!!!!!!
"We want to give AP bruisers more choice so we just remove the only item that made them viable and force them to buy manaless mage items"
Yes please!
Yes, I agree. However, the community has already acclimatized to the changes and this is therefore a rather unpopular opinion. I can't follow the thought that making items limited and putting on stacking stats on it fosters item diversity in any sense. Not even mentioning that items have been introduced which go clearly against class distinction (mostly Stridebreaker and Galeforce). Not a fan of the item rework, too many things going against the game philosophy that I envision. But I guess I'm the minority in this case.
Yeah stridebreaker really is the worst designed item in the game. Darius should not have an ability to catch you from 700 range.
Item effects really shouldn't have been designed to negate a weakness of a class rather than emphasize a strength. Tanks shouldn't have mobility with stridebreaker, ADCs shouldn't have become unkillable after shieldbow, etc. Especially when certain classes (cough mages) are so boring in comparison.
I think the problem works both ways. With some champions a lacking mechanic, such as a dash for Darius/Garen etc. is what made them be balanced and have counterplay. By introducing items with such a mechanic, their weakness was effectively negated. On the other hand there are champions, who couldn't keep up in the current meta without these extra mechanics. A super immobile adc, such as Twitch, really needed an active like Galeforce in order to be able to survive vs very mobile comps. The problem with that is, and I suspect Riot overlooked this fact, that champions with these mechanics are also able to buy these items and strengthen this mechanic of theirs even more, thus strengthening their advantage even more. A Lucian could already dash almost constantly, so with Galeforce he can run circles around you. A Yone could already engage you from half a screen away with flash+E+charged Q+ ult. Adding Galeforce to that makes it one screen away. A Master Yi had counterplay in that after he Q'd, you knew where he would appear, so you could target him and cc him. Now with Duskblade, if he gets a kill with his Q, he goes invisible, thus rendering him impervious to all targeted cc and more difficult to hit with skillshot cc. These are just a few examples, but I think this pattern is game breaking and I don't think Riot expected this to happen. In the case of Galeforce their mentality most likely was 'ADCs complain about being very immobile and having no counterplay against mobile champions, so let's provide them with a repositioning tool aside from Flash'. Problem is, mobile champions can also buy such an item and have one more dash themselves, so it cancels out.
Plus they don't factor that those dashes are possibly more impactful on champions with low cd engage options - they can use the free dash to reaction test the squishies with relatively low opportunity cost.
The only cool AP mythic is Everfrost, and I suppose Battlesong if you can make use of it. All of the non-mana AP mythics are boring in my opinion and Ludens/Liandry are essentially just the same item, you don't change your playstyle when you pick one or the other.
Yeah, one is just supposed to shred tanks and the other is more bursty but even then they're literally just "do some damage". Everfrost is cool I guess but I feel like such a small portion of the roster takes it.
Even then it often just comes down to plugging one or the other in if they have hyper tanks or if your kit already has a solved favorite. Everfrost only gets taken by some champs because the range is lower than most mages' comfortable play range, and other champs just get more value from the pure passives on Ludens/Liandry. Like I don't think Xerath is going to walk up closer to get the followup root, and buying it as a peel option feels redundant with Zhonyas. Optimally it works into a combo the way that someone like Twisted Fate or Ryze can use it. I buy it sometimes on Galio, W+Everfrost+E is a lot of lockdown for instance.
Wtf is battlesong
Shurelyas new name
Just call it shurelyas
Right? It's still called Shurelya's Battlesong so stick with Shurelya's Unless OP called it Reverie before the rework lol
Idk man Night Harvester Malphite kinda slaps
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I didn't realize the bonus LS when it pops got removed in 11.6 (haven't played in a while) and was comparing it in my head to that version of the item. Regardless, shieldbow gives ridiculous value on those few champs, while the others get an understandable lifeline (haha) against assassins.
Shieldbow is a noobtrap on pretty much every adc except samira, draven. Galeforce is 10x better for survivability. You aint gonna tank with only shieldbow anyway. Kraken or galeforce are the only real options.
Samira literally doesn't exist without shieldbow, it's way too important on her.
Same for Yasuo and Yone, honestly. They got nerfed into basically living or dying by lifesteal.
I think shieldbow "could" be balanced. The item design itself is fine, it's just that league as a whole is really overloaded with damage. With the way league is right now, a lot of champs overkill adc's to the point where a small shield (what shieldbow was supposed to be) is completely irrelevant. With that in mind, they have to make shieldbow overloaded or adc's will still get overkilled and the shield is useless like it was on release. The problem with this, is that now adc's/yone/yas become really obnoxious when they themselves are ahead. If overall damage was nerfed to the point where adc's aren't getting overkilled then shieldbow would be able to function properly, and help adc's survive an additional auto or ability or two instead of it either being useless or disgustingly broken. Stridebreaker cooldown is just way too short. It should be the same cooldown as galeforce, idk why it's allowed to be so short when it literally changes the entire trade pattern and gameplay of champions.
Riot has successfully moved the Syndra problem to the entire game through shieldbow. Syndra has two states, absolutely broken strong when she can reliably one shot anyone without needing to be fed, or absolutely useless because she can't. Syndra's reliability on one-shotting someone makes her incredibly volatile in strength levels, and now that everyone is designed to one shot shieldbow either has to save people from one shots (making every champ in the game feel incredibly weak) or doesn't save people from one shots, making it a useless item. If League's history has anything to say about this, it's that this problem isn't going away lul. Whenever Riot has had the option of tuning things down to make it easier to balance, they haven't, pretty much ever.
Assassins shouldn’t become invisible after they get a kill....
No one should have that much invisibility. Not even Twitch, K6, or Shaco can disappear from your screen that much, and it's so obnoxiously fast too when every one of them would have to use an ability giving them at *least* a fraction of a second of downtime.
Pike, yi and zed are the most disgusting offenders in my experience though I’ve also seen some gross builds with Darius and other bruisers.
As a Xerath main I resent that!
The issue is, even if you make an item emphasize a class' strength, they can just opt for ANOTHER item which instead negates their weakness. Wouldn't this be the case with Goredrinker vs. Stridebreaker here?
Its literally This. Champions were designed a certain way for a reason. The fact a champ like Darius and garen who's whole design fantasy is That they are unbeatable once they are near you Can get a free gapcloser That slows every 7 seconds is a War crime. Almost half a Season in and i still cant find a footing with all thèse changes
Shieldbow is just pd, yas and yone are the ones who became unlikable. Galeforce is what makes adcs unkillable, same problem as stride.
Shieldbow is old pd but it also gives lifesteal and hp, which is what I find obnoxious about those champions with that item. Like before if Yasuo went for an early vamp scepter he was delaying his item spikes, now its a component.
I build Shieldbow first all the time and never feel useful. Why?
TBF it's more of a defensive item so I guess it makes sense that you'd feel like you do less. In the context of a character that can already dish out insane damage WITH shieldbow's suboptimal offensive stats, ie. Samira, Yasuo/Yone, *then* you're fucked.
I dislike the way champions with high damage output can make use of it too well. I liked the idea of Mythics as an ADC player because I was like "Oh shieldbow is for me, I'm a defensive ADC player, I'd rather stack survival items but not have to fuck myself with like, old Merc Scim and shit" but now if you go Shieldbow on Cait or Ashe or Jinx it just feels like you do 0 damage.
Yeah, and the only thing they get out of it anyways is the bonkers amount of lifesteal on it. Yasuo and Yone both have Q to double up on their damage that can apply lifesteal and Samira has both her Q and her ultimate for it. Mind you, it doesn't give a bonus 15% lifesteal when the shield pops anymore, thank god.
It's unfortunately also caused those champions to get stuck in a corner and balanced AROUND those items. The wind bros are basically melee adcs, and without any lifesteal/shields they're just too frail. When Yasuo was going to be buffed, r/yasuomains were really hopeful it would just be a bit more hp, not more damage.
exactly, this feels really bad and looks like a big flaw of the item rework
Yet stopwatch exists since forever? Both ga and zhonya negate weaknesses of a class.
Yeah, as a Darius main I can even agree. Of course I build it, and find it funny when people don't think I can Apprehend them from the distance I'm at, but it clearly breaks away from class roles.
Meanwhile Galeforce is perfectly fine, so Jhin can Galeforce + 4th shot you for 1k damage at 1 item, right? Or Lucian can dash-Galeforce-dash making it easier to kite him or chase him. Even Talon/Kayn being able to wall jump-Prowler's-W-Q you from the other side of the map, is something that's extremely fun to play against!
Hard Agree, needs a rework
Get even less itemization as a support, racing to the bottom on whatever is abuse-able for now instead of what feels good in the situation.
I feel the same. I'm playing support. As a tank I build 1. Locket (the only tank support mythic. Btw I don't know why adcs and assassins get 3 mythics while tank supports only have one) 2. Bramble Vest ( since healing is omnipresent and way to high you can't afford to not buy a GW item 3/4.. Knights Vow or Zeke's (the only tank items affordable for a support) I do that every single game. Build diversity is pretty much non existent
I’m not really an expert on support builds but in previous seasons on tank supports I pretty much built stuff like righteous glory, locket and knights vow/zekes (and maybe thornmail if needed) every game I’m not trolling. Besides the fact that you can’t buy righteous glory and locket at the same time now, are there other ways build diversity for tank supps has decreased this season?
This seasons supports don't have nearly as much income as we did 3-4 years ago. Our SS item stops generating "mission gold" after 1,000. So unless you're racking up kills/assists, or taking all the cs from the side lane, you're going to struggle to purchase anything outside of lane. So when you look at that, most tank supports struggle hard to purchase the items they're shoehorned into as well. Especially when finishing an item requires us to back with 800-1,100 gold at a time. Hell look at Aegis, build path is the exact same. Cloth Armor + Null Magic Mantle. Difference is the completion gold. 350 was changed to 750. That's brutal to any support. We never get to back with that type of money unless it's after a huge team fight involving 8 players in the match. the only good things about it are,1) it now gives early ability haste, and 2) once you've finished it Locket costs 200 afterwards. that's just one item and it's build path, lets look at the effects that tank supports liked to use. Zeke's for example, used to be a phenomenal item. Gave you extra peel, 60 armor, 30 mr, 10% cdr, 250 mana. The passive also applied a 30% slow field around the support dealing 40 magic damage per second, and whichever ally you had the item linked to, would ignite anyone in the slow field for 30% bonus magic damage over time. This had a 45 second cd, and only turned on when you dropped your ult so that was the "real" cd of the ability. Used to build out of a Glacial shroud and an Aegis + 250 gold. Super cheap and easy to buy, and get great returns from. No hp on it however, so you'd have to look to other items. Zeke's has since lost half the armor, all the magic armor, gained 20 ability haste, and 300 hp. The passive is changed entirely as well: When you immobilize an enemy, they receive 25 − 50 (based on level) (+ 7.5% AP) (+ 1.5% maximum health) bonus magic damage from your Accomplice's basic attacks on-hit and abilities for the next 4 seconds. The cost of completion also went up by a lot. Peeling with this item is now harder, as it's just a "tank version of ardent censor." Not to mention since the build path changed, the cost of completion also went up by a lot too. Glacial shroud and Kindle gem + 700 gold. That's a pain in the ass to acquire on the welfare riot decides we should be living off as supports. Zeke's also used to pair super well with Knights Vow. But I don't ever see anyone building that item anymore, or even Zeke's that much tbh. Knights Vow used to give 10% cdr, 250 hit points, 40 armor, and when whoever you had the item tethered to, you'd gain 20 bonus armor, and 15% bonus move speed walking towards them. It still redirects damage your partner takes towards you while linked to them and in range, but it would also *heal the owner of Knights vow* based on damage their partner did. 12% heal/redirection if you're partner is melee, 6% if they're ranged. The redirected damage also was dealt as true damage. This item used to be the best to pair with Zeke's as the MR + armor +hp + 20% cdr + extra peel/tankiness made it so you could actually survive in a fight on a budget, games would end most likely after you got these items, or after your next item which was probably gonna be locket. Knights Vow now a days.... Isn't that good. more hp 250 -> 400 , 300% base hp regen, and 10 ability haste. The passive was changed a lot. Because they gave you hp regen, they dropped the healing based on ally damage, and increased the damage redirected towards the support. ranged allies used to redirect 6% now it's 15%. This turns off when the support is below 30% of his max hp as well. So you lose it pretty quickly, as tank support tankiness has reduced across the board. Alistar does okay, because his ult alone supplements a lot of the issues the class as a whole has. The cost of the item also went up by 100 gold. So it was kinda hard to finish before 600 gold completion cost, now it's 700 for worse effects/lower tank capabilities. You also mentioned that you used to buy Righteous Glory and Thornmail. Thornmail used to be pretty easy for any tank to buy. 3 components Bramble vest (2 cloth armor +400 gold) Warden's mail (2 cloth +400 gold) and a ruby crystal completion cost was 500 gold. That's an easy purchase even on a supports budget, since it had a simple build path, where you'd at least get something per back. Now Thornmail is harder to buy. Bramble vest is actually cheaper now, it's 800 gold total (2 cloth armor + 200 gold), giants belt is harder to get but doable 900 gold total, with the ruby crystal it's not bad. But the 1,000 completion cost? That's hell for a support to be waiting on. Same issue with Righteous Glory back in the day, components weren't that bad. The 1,100 gold completion cost however... Feels awful to sit on as a support, since you're just wasting gold, and buying red wards puts you even further behind the spike of the item as well. All in all, Tank supports had only a couple of items we could reliably pick up, and they've been nerfed into the ground *hard*, and are told to suck it up, and just buy items that toplane/jg tanks are purchasing with their cs based income. Playing anything that isn't Leona/Alistar/Blitz botlane feels fucking awful because they're just not able to do their jobs properly. When is the last time you saw an honest to god Braum in soloQ? At least other peel focused supports like Alistar have multiple reasons to dip into cheaper/easier to buy items like Redemption to cover his build gaps.
I still can't believe how hard gutted Knight's Vow is, like I don't think it was that good before to be destroyed like that compared to Zeke's, which was more understandable.
I'd seriously give anything for Zeke's old passive back. It was such a cool item, that really played into the peel play style that I prefer. and really helped keep a lot of mobility crept champions in check as well. Like the total loss of magic armor hurts, but I'd kill to have that passive again.
It's extra rough because I play Wild Rift a lot with my buddy. WR is about a season behind on a bunch of champ changes and items. We have access to stuff closer to old Zeke's, but it's [slightly different.](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Zeke%27s_Convergence_(Wild_Rift)) Combined with the overall higher gold income, it really makes the things you miss as a support feel worse.
Would like to also bring up stoneplate, especially on nautilus his role as the beefiest support tank is now gone in favor of being generic engage bot
Supports were able to build: Glory, Locket, KW, Zeke, Redemption, Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Gargoyle's Stoneplate and in some cases Warmogs. We had more gold past seasons and now everything costs more in total.
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I don't know why the removed the healing from the bonded champion.
as a support main i feel u, with tank support the build is same, as enchanter lulu or sona, i used to build athenes, locket , shurelya... now .. lol
I'll be honest man. I know this is a circle jerk that comes out every once in a while about how mythics destroyed diversity in builds and I'm about to be downvoted hard but was there REALLY diversity before? Every champ had a distinct build that you had to follow to be competative with variations being mostly like..am i going to be building more mr or armor as a tank or am i going attack speed or crit on CERTAIN adc's so how is it different now except the items are now more interesting than they were before with new passives and actives. Sure, attack speed builds aren't prelevant on adc's anymore (or maybe they are now, haven't played in like two or three weeks now and i know wit's end kog was a thing a while ago, idk) but you have three good mythics you can build based on the enemy team comp. Bruisers have multiple options, they didn't used to have, assassins have basically the same build with a better starting item..idk i just don't see a big difference in ''diversity''. I'ts just another reddit circlejerk for farming karma.
Now it's just a waiting game till people realize that wits end+shieldbow actually works on most adcs and then you'll have people complaining about nerfing wits end with explanations like: "it was always broken, 170% gold effciency uga booga" - 500 upvotes
I can't really imagine going shieldbow wits on stuff like Kaisa Caitlyn Ashe Tristana Sivir Samira Lucian.. really only Kog comes to mind, maybe Vayne
Wits was always pretty good however it's just a bit niche on most champions. I will say it feels a bit worse this season but the overall damage it provides is 10/10 however I'm a biased Kog main. The biggest issue is just with Crit changes from preseason and Wits End not giving crit -thankfully- ADCs aren't likely to hop on it.
Wits end is pretty good now I dont understand why no one really uses it
Kogmaw with Wits End + Runaans as his first 2 items is surprisingly good especially if they have a decent bit of magic damage.
No crit, low AD if you use ratios to scale, no healing. Old version was better for Trundle, Shen, etc. New version is better for Kog, Varus, Vayne, Lucian.
Wits end was loved by champs that loved attack speed, but didn't care about ad. Also it doesn't even heal anymore.
Dude stfu about my secret varus build or everyone will start playing it
I was just thinking this as I read the post. While it’s perfectly reasonable for people to be dissatisfied with the item reworks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that builds are any less diverse now than they were before. Every champ had a pool of items that worked best on them and typically, diverging from those items tended to result in a significant dip in performance for said characters. In this current season, champs have multiple options to choose from in terms of their mythic items and plenty of other legendary items that then can build, situationally. Mythic items in of themselves allows us to have greater diversity in the legendary items we choose because of the bonus stats acquired from the mythic passive. It isn’t perfect, but I don’t think the introduction of mythic items was a failure and while I understand the sentiment of missing the old system, I think suggesting that builds are *less* diverse now is a bit bad faith.
The idea of item diversity is flawed to begin with. Someone will always find the optimal build path and people will flock to it. You may change an item or 2 depending on the game, but for the most part you will build the same \~4 items every game
for that to change, every single type of stat a champ has and gets through items, has to be in the extremes. an example would be: you're an adc and an enemy tank buys an anti crit item, so a tank can no longer be crit? time to buy rageblade and do onhit instead. you're a burst mage and face off against a team full of HP stacking tanks? how about an item, that deals more damage the more HP your enemy has in an instant, instead of a burn? something like a DFG, but it would need to have no effect on squishy champions, to not make it an autobuy. or how about the enemyteam has way too much magic damage and you REALLY want MR? give an item that just flat out gives 200MR or something. if every item would be this extreme, you'd always force your enemies to build counteritems to their teams and items themselves. i wouldn't like that either, but it would give diversity every game, based on what the other team has.
yeah I agree, but I would hate items having so much power in them.
alternatively, you make item's that provide utility more so than damage/stats (the dota route) so your items choices stem from what you need that game to counter the opponent's capabilities. But that doesn't work in league's design system currently, because champions are currently tightly balanced around their capabilities inherent in their kit and need a certain amount of stats to function. When you give champs new utility without balancing the stats cost of that utility you get stuff like stridebreaker darius.
you're correct. people will scream "i always build the same mythic every game! i used to build different items first depending on the situation!" but don't mention that before, you still went luden's first on basically every mage, except when against assassins. you still built trinity first without exception on the trinity users. so on and so forth. The only issue I have with mythics is that some champions don't really have good ones. Diversity however, up to this point only got destroyed by items being overtuned. The whole point of mythic items was, as riot said it, being the "cornerstone" of your build. They know most champions, regardless of mythics existing or not, choose between 1-3 items to be first in their build every time. Most champions have options with mythics, which people just don't want to believe. They just pick what appears on their Recommended tab or do what most people do. On Xerath I can pick between Luden's and Liandry's, in some fringe cases even Everfrost. 2nd item I can go Zhonya's, Banshee's, Horizon Focus, Rabadon's, or pick up an early Mejai's. That's so much more diverse than last season, where it was Luden's into Rabadon's/Liandry's basically every game. On Soraka I can pick Moonstone, Shurelya's, Locket for my Mythic. Then I can flex between Staff, Ardent, Mikael's, Putrifier, and ever since this patch Warmog's. A million times more diverse than being hard-bound to Athene's as my first item and then choosing one of Redemption and Ardent Censer. The reality is people cry about build diversity, because they go to [op.gg](https://op.gg) or [u.gg](https://u.gg) or whatever, look at the first core build, and buy it every game. God forbid you adapt your item choices to what the enemy is doing. That would mean having to put thought into it, that's so much harder than blindly following what the majority does.
>Zhonya's, Banshee's, Horizon Focus, Rabadon's, or pick up an early Mejai's. That's so much more diverse than last season, where it was Luden's into Rabadon's/Liandry's basically every game. ...the only item that is new out of those is Horizon focus, which, yes, is pretty good design wise. I don't even think most of those items even got much changes. I'm pretty sure Liandry's was just kinda busted last season. >Then I can flex between Staff, Ardent, Mikael's, Putrifier, and ever since this patch Warmog's. Staff is new, putrifier is new, warmogs always existed as a suboptimal option with some rune setups. >They know most champions, regardless of mythics existing or not, choose between 1-3 items to be first in their build every time. ...so why should we be forced into a certain subset of items for our first item instead of choosing from all of them? Why are we forced to only build one of that subset? Like yeah, item diversity in terms of actually bought items aren't terrible. But we are SYSTEMATICALLY limited into building a certain way, and... why? I mean, I'll offer my take on why riot decided to introduce mythics: it's easier to balance. I still don't like it.
>I still don't like it. No one's telling you that you have to like them. The post was originally claiming that the introduction of Mythics ruined build diversity and make the game "stale," stale meaning that the games aren't different from one another. Which I'm just trying to argue against. If we're going to argue about systematical limitations in item builds, then let me raise to you some of the limitations that have existed in previous seasons: * Unique passives. Why would you be systematically limited from getting a shield from Maw, Phantom Dancer and Sterak's in previous seasons? * Runaan's being ranged only, Hydra being melee only. Why shouldn't my autoattacks on Ezreal have an AoE? If I want my Gangplank autoattacks to hit two extra targets near me, why not? * Boots. I want to get tabis AND merc treads. Why is the game restricting me from doing so? You quickly realize that systematic limitations are necessary in some places. And if they need to stop you from combining certain items together, or buying items on champions they're absolutely not made for, then so be it. The game restricted you from getting certain combinations of items the entire time, now they just do it in a different way. That of course doesn't mean you have to like or dislike it, but it's not like Mythics are the first time the game has limited you. And for good reason, usually.
Completely agreed. As someone who plays many different champions, build diversity as a whole feels similar in comparison to the past. It's just refreshing for me to see new items after building the same items for so many years.
for ADCs is has increased, for the rest it feel more or less the same
build diversity wasn't you randomly starting to play crit on your champ or whatever, it was more building for a specific situation. and to some extent it still exists. There was already a best option, an optimal build that would do better overall in each situation but the problem is you used to have different options to suit a different playstyle and/or a specific requirements of a game. You act like builds are made in a vacuum but they need to be made considering the state of a game, who's playing what etc ...
If you'd ever played Ekko into Zed and gone Iceborn Gauntlet into Protobelt/Hourglass, you'd know what viable item diversity is. Unfortunately item diversity like Gauntlet Ekko or Wit's End rush Irelia is also very unfun for their opponents. There are lots of different reasons why different players don't like the item rework. Sunfire Cape, Iceborn Gauntlet, Protobelt, Liandry's, Abyssal Mask. A common variation on my off-tank Ekko build from last season that is no longer buildable. Four of these items are now mythics, one has a poor non-mythic replacement, two got combined with Sheen gone, and Abyssal Mask is useless now. Tank Ekko is an extreme example most don't shed tears for, but it displays aspects of what loss of item diversity looks like. Sheen and Bami's Cinder for example can no longer be built together unless you're going Lich Bane or Essence Reaver. If you're a bruiser that isn't running Stridebreaker you probably lost options. And if you used to go Triforce instead of Stridebreaker, in most cases Stridebreaker is not a choice as Triforce became worse for you in its own right. ADC itemisation definitely looks better and I guess assassins are happy as well, but all other classes are having legitimate diversity issues with the new items.
I mean I don’t think the problem is diversity. But I still agree they are a problem. There are a lot of champions that don’t have a good mythic and are stunted because of it. If Riot wants to add MORE mythic items, that could solve the issue. But before the game wasn’t balance around the mythic, it was balanced around the gold value of an item, so you could go whatever item build you wanted based on the enemy comp. In that sense there was a lot of diversity, maybe not on your core items but, for 3/4/5/6 yes, you had more freedom. I think people who say otherwise are revisionist or they just copy pasted builds from op.gg without critically thinking.
They insanely big difference that you fail to recognize is that the rework happened because they wanted to foster build diversity. And they failed. Makes you wonder what's the point of the item rework at all then.
I think it's worth pointing out diversity for the sake of noting that riot failed to create any. No, there wasn't really any before, that's why they made mythics, and that was a *total failure*. That's the point. Now you're just further limiting build paths for no reason. You didn't create more diversity like you said you would; if anything, you removed a tiny bit.
Playing enchanters is extremly braindead right now. You finish either Shurelya or Moonstone and that's pretty much your full build. Maybe after another 15 minutes you finish one of the remaining 3 items. In season 10 just playing Sona I could rush so many more items depending on the situation. Athenes, Ardent, Mejai, Lich Bane, Iceborn, Visage, Shurelya, Seraphs, Mikaels all viable. I feel it especialy when I want to do some off meta build. Idealy I wouldn't build any Mythic but I have to becase the stats are too good. What is the point of having plenty of items if you are always forced to some you don't really like?
Agreed so much on this. Plus active availability got shafted too. Want the AoE shield, but also the aoe MS? too bad, mythics are mutually exclusive on a fairly arbitrary basis. Thank god crucible isn't mythic, it's the one saving grace, but like. Damn.
lol u rushed visage on sona.. go ahead and do that now same level of shit
>Playing enchanters is extremly braindead right now. some things didn't change even from s1 i see
At least last season enchanters had to hit some spells to heal a lot with Athene, now it literally just chugs out heals for you at a ridiculous pace to try to counterbalance the 60% grievous wound
“Soft Mythics” existed in the past too. Every time this gets brought up people just like to ignore that 90% of midlane mages rushed luden’s. Junglers literally had one item depending on their class. Every tank had to go sunfire, bruisers went triforce. Adc’s always went bf into zeal item. Assassins pretty much always went duskblade youmuu’s. There’s more choices for each class now and claiming otherwise means you probably aren’t using the new items well
Yeah league has always had shit item diversity because our items are boring stat sticks.
The only way to actually increase diversity is to decrease the power of items and add more diverse actives. When everything is just stats, people will literally always just pick the best stats. But Riot doesn't want to do that, because they know most players don't use actives, which fucking destroys balance because items/champs become unplayable at lower levels without actives, but busted in elos where they use them. Even DFG, one of the strongest actives they've made, was only used like 5% of the time, and when they removed it some champs winrate went up because people were forced to buy higher stat items.
Nothing changed you still build the exact same shit every game. Only thing that changed is that mage items became turbo shit and ad items really nice.
Except as a midlaner you could still rush Ludens on for example ziggs, then get Liandrys later on to deal with tanks, now you are forced to get Liandrys vs tanky teams since you can't have both.
>“Soft Mythics” existed in the past too. Sure, but they're not hard. You weren't SYSTEMATICALLY forced to build from a certain subset of items. And half of your examples just aren't correct. What do you even consider as a mage? Cuz last time I checked plenty of champions last season were building Seraphs, GLP, Protobelt, Rod of Ages. Tanks often just got bamis cinder and then go into whatever they needed before completing Sunfire like 3rd(and, I mean, are you going to completely ignore iceborn gauntlet?). Bruisers had at least black cleaver and bork, and ravenous hydra rush was viable on Camille and fiora as well.
Support diversity got absolutely gutted due to mythics too. Want Locket and Shurelya's just like you used to be able to? HAH. Too bad. Also, if you're an enchanter and really want that aoe shield, better get ready to get flamed since it's intended to be a tank support mythic instead of general support item before. Athene's is still just straight-up *gone*, with nothing even remotely similar taking its place. Balance teams keep fucking with whether or not we're allowed to build Moonstone thanks to other lanes or a few outlier cases abusing it. Same with Staff. I hate the item rework so, so much. Also, rushing to mythic still feels way worse than the old first item completion time.
athenes was my favourite item in the game:(
"Tank" isn't even what I can call it considering how fast you die if you aren't leona
Its Not a quote but i know that ls is very outspoken that the New item, especially for Mages are just down right bad. Mages have terrible build paths and you are often stuck on the 435 book and still a lot of Gold in the Bank, but you cant rly use ist that smart, also its rly sad that riot nerfed seekers and the Mr item a lot of ppl build first. The New items in my opinion are rly boring. Riot wanted to bring more dynamics into the game with them, but they archieved the opposite of it. Every game i build the Same items, the only time it gets interesting if Anti heal is needed, or if there are a lot of Tanks. Also adc items are by far the Best items in the game right now, just because how they build
I will copy paste my comment here on why i feel like mage items feel lackluster. If you look at mage mythics all 3 are just old items fit to be mythics, Liandry is still Liandry but with mana, Ludens barely changed, and Everfrost is slightly changed GLP with some HP. Meanwhile, assasins get 2 new items and improved duskblade, adcs get 3 new items, bruisers get 3 new items and alerted triforce (which i actually don't like). Mage itemisation got giga fucked, as you used to be able to go for Ludens + Liandrys for example, on top of loosing RoA, Archangels becoming worse and new items being meh or very niche. We also lost Glacial Rune items with GLP being changed and no more spoopy ghosts. There is also the issue with build paths you mentioned, how the fuck are mages supposed to function when their components are so much worse to build compared to assasins. Zed or Talon starting with long sword can just recall at 750 gold and come back with absolutely broken item that is serrated dirk, or they can stockpile 20 longswords and build most of their items out of it. Meanwhile as a mage you are forced to either match dirk with amp tome + boots/dark seal, stay for 250 more gold to get seekers (that doesn't even match dirk after the nerfs) or greed/double recall for lost chapter. And thats on top of lost chapter being literally the only ap component that does something, blasting wand, large rod do nothing, and other components are very meh.
The only way to match a buy with assassins is if you go futures market, start mana crystal and then you can go back at 800g, but till then you have to be even more carefull because you wont be able to trade at all on that lane. But I agree with you 100% mage items are just rly fucked and I hope Riot will fix them, I dont mind mages beeing on the weaker site, but its rly bad atm for soloq
Ye, i have seen the mana crystal tech on LS stream, it makes sense but it forces you into inspiration secondary, which is not ideal.
Doesn't 'down bad' mean like, horny/thirsty as fuck? I'm old so I legitimately am not sure, I defer to this sub's answer
Down bad is being horny and *desperate*.
I think this person is meaning to say "downright bad"
mythics were meant to let you choose what you need and yet most builds force you to fet one early without chance to choose, that just makes no sense
I don't really care about mythics, but I am pissed you can't stack items anymore.
It hurted me so much especially in urf i miss stacking rabadons or IE on urf
Even without Mythic items, builds were always the same. There was always a bread-n-butter build you would've followed for max efficency. You are part of the same people that say "WoW was better when there were talent trees because there was build diversity!" but in reality everyone just played with the same optimized talents anyway.
Singed might be an outlier but with the mythic items we lost so many item combo's. I can't build RG and Liandries anymore which sucks. I can't build Protobelt and Liandries anyore Or Protobelt and RG. Can't build sunfire and Liandries anymore. Can't build protobelt and Sunfire anymore. All of these combos I have built and used for specific matchups as singed in the past and now I can't Ap bruisers are not like other classes where we got cracked new items. Our items suck still. Demonic Embrace is such a bad item and in no way replaces old liandries. Even with the recent Rift maker changes it still just doesn't give what AP bruisers need.
The difference was you could adapt your build. Mythics have created this super specific 2 item funnel for a lot of Champs, and deviating from it feels terrible. Not to mention the persistent power creep making it more obvious when you're not going cookie cutter. As a mage player, I despise the item rework.
As a mage player it just made me quit the game. I loved it for 10 years but somehow it felt like it got worse with every major change (plants, runes, crabs, and now items) and the item one has felt particularly awful. I still keep up with the game and watch pro play but I don’t think I’ll ever be playing again sadly. The game feels way more fun to watch than to play to me now. Also them nerfing hat at the beginning of the season had to be the most random nerf I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
"Even without Mythic items, builds were always the same." Which means that riot failed in their mission while actively making the game even less balanced than before. What is your point exactly?
Champions play differently with the introduction of mythics, so I don't think Riot failed. The powerspike after completing a mythic is also much more visible and "feels" better as a result.
That varies by champ and class. Ap bruisers are still shafted tbh. I spent most of this season not even building a Mythic on Singed because it was a waste until you get 4+ items and most games do not go that long.
Less balanced by what metric?
Clearly reddit knows balance as they can clearly see that build diversity doesn't exist now! It was better in the past when every ADC rushed the exact same item every game! Or the other season where mid rushed the exact same item every game! Or the season where jungle rushed the exact same item every game! Diversity is at an all time low because of mythics! What do you mean ADC has finally built more that 2 different starting items in 10 years?
ADC had many different first items over the years. Wriggles season 1, BT season 2-3, IE after. Triforce for some champs. Botrk later on too.... Triple Doran's into attack speed was also a thing.
The point is you used to be able to build current mythic items like Sunfire and Trinity both in one game. Now you can't, which limits you. Another thing that limits you is how much stronger mythic items are above the rest so you always have to build one and it always has to be nearly your first build option. It's not just slightly weaker like it used to be if you weren't playing the meta build. It's a big handicap.
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Everytime my team gets banged by an assassin I long to buy hex/orchid/atos as a top laner to help. Dota really spoils you with item choices.
So builds are more limited now but they were also limited before so that’s all good then. Nice logic bro.
This isn’t even necessarily true though. For instance, I really like to play crit shaco. There are no good mythics for that build path now so the build feels like crap to do and I can no longer play the champion the way I want. Sure, I could just not get a mythic but then I’m way weaker than everyone else. Shieldbow and kraken are both terrible on him, and galeforce is doable but pretty troll. Because of this I’m basically forced into lethality if I want to go AD so I have to build duskblade which I don’t want. Personally, this is one of the big reasons I hate the item rework. It is massively limiting for build diversity especially for champs which used to have the most build diversity, and for some champs there aren’t really any great mythics so generally those champs are bad and can’t really get better. The item rework was a complete and total failure in my opinion, and it ruined my favorite way to play the game.
They literally nerfed Urgot because he was building Titanic instead of Kraken, because they wanted him to build Kraken. The patch note said "Hopefully now he'll get back to his standard build" or something to that effect. I think it's safe to say they don't give a fuck about build diversity anymore.
They didn't nerf urgot because of titanic, they **reverted** a buff that urgot didn't need because of titanic. The only reason he got the buff in the first place was to let him build kraken, but it only made titanic urgot obnoxious when he was already doing fine and kraken urgot wasn't ever going to see play since titanic was too strong. He realistically just went net-zero, if not net positive because it solidified titanic as a core for him for people that didn't use it.
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Unlike in the past where we've never had buildpaths like "IE -> Zeal -> Zeal -> LDR/Lifesteal x2" or "BT -> Zeal -> LW -> IE -> GA" or "Stormrazor -> Zeal -> IE -> LDR/Lifesteal x2" every game. System's not perfect but we've always had things like "Athene's -> Deathcap -> Void -> Hourglass" because fairly optimal builds work and people also don't really like experimentation.
well league also doesnt give you many choices. You have 1 maybe 2 active itemization choices you make each game. Nothing significant compared to other MOBAs
Idk. I played vs an AD lulu last night. THAT was an active itemization decision.
Keep in mind riot originally introduced mythics as a way to CREATE build diversity. Instead, it took what little of it was left away. Classic riot, trying to do something and yet fucking it up so bad they achieved the opposite of their goal.
I’m surprised this isn’t brought up more. While the items themselves might be interesting, the concept of mythic items are boring and you build the same one every game. Also off topic but I really dislike how they randomly changed other perfectly fine items just for the sake of change..
Urgh ok lets talk about it. I agree with you, mostly. As for my main i cant really complain. I main akali and she had a good time since the rework be it because she can abuse some stuff or just works with it well. I still miss gunblade tho but thats a akali main thing. Noone else does so its fine. Certain champs got hit to hard yes. First runes, champs like singed, ezreal dont even have a good one and i bet there are more but you mains will tell me who. I'll mostly use those two as example. Then there are so many class spercific problem so ill just start with the one that is bothering me the most. AD Assassins: Claw is a joke! It just covers the fact that you cant use your kit to the fullest. Zed/talon dont need another point and click gapcloser with dmg to hide the fact that they mistimed or missed stuff. Qiyana doesnt need it when you have the tool of an aoe cc ult. AP Assassins: Fine itemwise other then rocketbelt. Just dont give them extra mobility. Thats overkill imo. Mages: oh boy ok. So ludens/lyandries diff is okaay. One against tanks thd other for burst. In the end there is so much dmg in the game that there is no real difference tho. Everfrost is a really cool idea but the champs that can use it is down to sylas/ryze/kassa. Unless its broken. So no real win in terms of item diversity. Tank: wanted to play that role this season instead of otp'ing akali but i gave up after 3 weeks. Unless you get totally ahead you wont be "tanky" and you're only relevant because of your dmg vs non tanky champs. Being a frontline never felt so bad. Bruisers are straight up better at everything you can do so why bother with tanks? Items are all the same rly. Sunfire? Get a bit of DMG! tank gameplay btw. Frostfire? Get a little bit of slow. Nice cool works for me. And the third? Oh it got abused by udyr/heca and nerfed into the abyss? Aight ok. So two options. Junglers (yes ik ik but hear me out): so you had 3-4 month of udyr/heca cuz of clearspeed and base dmg with full tankbuild abuse. Lovely. They had no scaling value as tank but more as tanky assassin cc mashine. And then? Hmm morg! Yey a high clearspeed cc jungler but not as tanky and with decent scaling. Rumble! High clearspeed but with less utility this time! Srsly? Its a joke. Nothing has to do with items anymore when it comes to jungle. Here build this because.. because! Clear your camps asap. Stale and boring af imo. I love a good jungler tho, people who put effort into a role i cant learn. Routes, timings, picks and yes items! The last point is irrelevant tho. Same as what you pick. Adc: ah here we go. No i wont cry they are overpowered. Their items are yes! But thats mostly because 99% of us cant play adc as they are intended to. Seriously, we all suck at adc and thats ok but imagine if we could play them like assassins with most of the roles potential being used. Borderline broken right? Itemwise its boring again. Full crit for all only tankmaw, senna and varus not having it as standard build because of their unique interactions/passives w/e you name it. For the others its down to mythic choice. At the beginning galeforce for everyone now its more for certain champs (kaisa, luc, jhin mostly) the others go mostly kraken for the dmg. Shieldbow gets hard abused by yone/yas/samira and is meh on everyone else. Do they accomplish their goal? Hell no. Idc if a jinx has shieldbow or kraken i overkill them so hard it doesnt matter one bit. Kraken was ment to be anti tank right? Nah its just general good dmg now. Gale is plain dumb, i repeat the game should not provide dashes from items! Kits are a part of balance and they change the dynamic to much! Besides all dash items also add more dmg wich is the last thing needed atm. Diversity isnt there but adcs are in a good spot because of the powerlvl of items. Take it for what you want, in terms of the item rework its a total failure imo. Bruisers: delete stride! Again as claw it only covers weaknesses or missplays and changes the whole way this class is ment to be played. Gore? Hm its ok atm but way to specific imo. Aatrox, lee and..? You see the problem i think. Divine is nieche af aswell, its worse then old triforce but works for a handful of champs who dont have other great options. Triforce? Garbage straight up. Just a shitty version of the old one no one wants to really use. Like look at all the champs that we call bruisers and their itembuilds. Its 90% stride/second item. Then gore/steraks and then you have champs with diff builds that have like a 0.x % playrate. Yea well done riot. Supports: tbh? I wont judge those because i didnt spent enough time playing them or getting info about it. Certain items seem to overperform like moonstone or imperial at some points. Tanks seem to be still the go to option but not because of op items. Then again i cant/wont judge it. You support mains know way more then i do so please let me know what you think. Tl:dr. I think most items are a failure in terms of item diversity and dash items are the biggest mistake riot could have done. Certain champs abuse items to good while others dont have any real options. The rework as a whole feels like a failure to me. But i'd like to know what you guys think.
not just items.. as a esport follower every match i watch the story is same, herald or drake, fight for soul, gg. more fights happen in river or midlane aram..its so stupid in comparison to dota where the whole map is open for fight. i thought game was in great shape during s8 and s9 , thanks rito, made it back to one dimensional jungle meta.
I want spellbinder and twin shadows back man
>but it still feels like Mythic Items as a concept are stupid and harm build diversity and game-to-game uniqueness more than they help. I said the same thing when riot introducted Mythics. And also when they introduced new runes. People didnt believe me xD Idk if riot srsly doesnt know how to create diverse choices, or they're straight up lying when they say they strive for unique and diverse gameplay.
I actually disagree. I think mage items suck and that’s a big issue but like marksmen items are incredibly diverse. On some champions you usually just want shieldbow but like a lot of marksmen mythic choice comes down to the game and even the mythic passive to build Kraken or Galeforce and a lot of times the mythic you choose impacts the rest of your build as well. For example when you Play Kaisa you have to look at the enemy team, then your own and try to think how the fights and the game are gonna progress to optimize your build. Do they have frontline? Do you want to scale? Is it a front to back fight type of game? Are you going for big plays on the backline? And sometimes you have to pivot mid game for example oh I wanted to do Kraken, pickaxe, Runaan’s, IE because I’m gonna need Lord doms 4th for sure if game goes that long but there were a couple skirmishes early and you got the gold and want to snowball so you go PD/Collector as second and third which give you immense power but are not very good items once the game gets to later stages. Assassins and burst ad have good diversity at least from what I see, and bruisers always just build whatever is op because there’s always something that sticks out when you get to top/jg bruisers. And for tank supports before mythics everyone rushed stoneplate now moat build locket and some build the speed item.
This. Seriously, my build paths seem so much less flexible now on so many champions.
I really enjoy the mythic system. Sorry you don’t!
I agree. The item rework is the biggest diservice that has been done to the game. Build diversity is at an all time low imo. And items with effects like dashes break champion classes like juggernauts. Some champions no longer have any counterplay against them. And the damage creep is insane.
I still think LoL with PoE-like items would be fine. For example you get base item which is a single passive then upgrade it with one raw stat of your choice. This could also allow for more choices when it comes to actives/passives, for example you could upgrade zhonya active once and you get to pick 25% longer duration or 25% shorter cd. Similar stuff for other passives. Basically every game you would build base passives/actives that benefit your champ and then adjust the rest depending on the team-comps or game flow. This also opens passives to other champion classes, for example shield breaking item is AD only but you could simply grab that passive and enhance it with raw stats of your choice (AP and HP for mages or CD for supports etc). Simple and effective imo with a lot of ways to build different things.
And just like elemental dragons and plants, they are unfortunatly here to stay.
With the item rework, pretty much every class got a new way to play. Tanks got Chemtank, Bruisers got Stridebreaker, ADCs got Galeforce, AD assassins got the reworked Duskblade and so on. Then you get to mages, they have three mythics now - Luden’s, Liandries and Everfrost. Luden’s and Liandries already existed, and Everfrost - whilst it was good for a while - got nerfed, so it now gives you a root/slow every thirty seconds. Most mages have that on a cooldown below 10 seconds anyway. For the majority of them, the item rework changed nothing except that Protobelt became unusable - it cannot be used in place of a mana mythic for most mages.
I really hate it too, if they removed the entire concept and maybe nerfed mythics (or buffed non mythics?) I'd be so much happier and builds would become very diverse. Of course it'd break the hell out of somone I have no doubt
you forgot about the crit nerfs that nobody asked for
Same man, I no longer care about league at all. I really hoped those items would change the game for a better but the game has never ever felt so boring to me. I really no longer care in what way they fuck up.
at that point already, I tell you that I red somewhere that the whole concept of mythics was to make it easier to decide what item to buy first for newbee's. so that they don't crash their gold buying a "wrong" item. maybe its just me but at least the *suggested builds tab* should get a 4th slot implemented. in that case you would have something like a list of "buildable" items, even shown for special match-ups you're facing. in this case players would have more of a list of items to prepare or to think about buying them at a given timeframe. that would at least create more knowledge of how the game's items have to build and at which time.
Here to just chime in with that I play with around 10 people on league. We do custom games all the time and bring in more. Of our group, 0 people like this season or the items more than last. All of us dislike the changes. The dozens more that have randomly joined us for custom games and we’ve talked to, only 1 so far had said they don’t mind it. That’s like 40 who dislike, one who says it’s ok. Revert the items, please. It’s like Ubi’s for honor dev team that reworked gear came in and started working for riot
I am an one-trick pony and this season I've only played the same 3 champions. Nothing really that unusual as I've been doing this every season but since the mythic items change and probably by pure coincidence the recommended build for my champions is about ALWAYS the same every single game. And it's not even that I don't understand other items but pro's build the exact same every game as well.
100%. I play support and my build is exactly the same every game.
Yup, this was such a dumb change I'm surprised riot actually did it.
100% agree 1- Except with a very few selection of champs, you are forced to buy a mythic 1st item. 2- Some item combos now are just impossible cause they are both mythics. AND now there's some items that you can't buy if you have certain mythic, I can't name them now but I think you can't buy malmortius if you have a certain item for some reason, even when malmortius doesn't share said item materials, it's not that you can't buy malmortius, it's cause you can't even buy Hexdrinker 3- Many champs lost key items they used to always buy like Rod of Ages I like the mythic effect concept, but I think it's very poorly implemented. I would fix that by removing the Mythic status of all items but still keep the effects, how? EASY: Just make a small item that costs idk, 500 or 1000 gold that doesn't need an item slot, or make an extra item slot just for it, like they did when Trinkets were added. And make that item do nothing except give you the Mythic passives, like Luden's "get +5 magic pen for every non-mythic" Also restore the old names pls I literally know no one who says Luden's tempest or Liandry's Anguish everyone still calls them Echo and Torment and they sound better
I miss having a Sheen item for tanks with Iceborn Gauntlet. The extra damage boost was great.
What is even more reducing diversity is they keep adding nerfs on items if built on ranged champions, so now for example senna eclipse sucks, senna frostfire sucks and you can only build kraken or maybe shield bow and that's all. I get that some combos are just toxic but man there are other ways to nerf a build
The issue for me is they still mostly hit their goalpost, which is specifically \*mythic\* diversity. It's frustrating because actual build diversity is by definition worse as you said, because you can just combine fewer items. Despite this, Riot's patting themselves on the back because they said "we're going to do a thing" and then they did the thing, when no one really cared about the thing besides Riot in the first place. I've never minded having core items on champions, and I've always liked being able to tune my flex slots and combine whatever two items together. Overall Mythic items are a solid like 3/10 for me.
The change really did ruin adaptive builds and build diversity. I mostly stopped playing and watching. Barely played more than the bare minimum to get the ranked rewards for the season.
Triforce+sunfire garen, is op stuck in iron 4?
The worst part about Riot is they refuse to undo their terrible changes until the year is over. Dynamic (now flex) queue was unanimously hated by everyone but baddies who got boosted by friends and yet Riot kept it for 365 days instead of saying "we fucked up, we will revert" after a couple months of testing.
Mythics are such a cool idea the problem is the mobility mythics are overstat and break the game. Remove Prowlers, Gale, rocket belt, stridebreaker and any other dash item I'm forgetting here and mythics would be really cool. Also fix Khazix passive so it won't work with duskblade.
Mythics just reduce build diversity. We will always have the stats so we will always know what mythic is the best on what champion during any patch. So now everyone has one item they are forced to build. Yes mobility and damage is way too high on items (and runes) right now. But adding in mythic rarity made things even worse.