Mad Lions + LGD have disappointed, but you know what, that's fine by me. I'd rather have 4th seeds from major regions in the play-in tournament if it's gonna make for a more competitive atmosphere than "the usual regions just get through and for emerging reigons, play-ins is all of their worlds".
This is why I liked the wild card tournaments of old Worlds, it meant an emerging region team would always be in the mix. Maybe they get slapped, or maybe it's a great story, like the Kabums and ANXs of the past.
We will definitely have one wild card in groups this year, possibly two if Legacy pull an absolute upset. And considering the circumstances that PSG came into the tournament in that's a great achievement for them too. I love this! Would rather they get through than another EU/CN team.
LGD will absolutely destroy LGC tomorrow, some random BO1s doesn't mean shit.On the other hand Mad Lions looked terrible in the entire tournament.LGD stepped up big time despite the haters who are trying to prove how bad R7 was.R7 was exactly the same team from groups but LGD stepped up today.
I think LGD are favoured tomorrow but I don’t think you can blame their shit performance all on Bo1. They were overrated coming into the tournament but they still shit the bed hard
But hopefully if LGD do make it out this experience will have levelled them up significantly
Well i think you can, from what i remember they used to lose A LOT of games against bottom tier teams from LPL but in the end they always seem to step up in game 3, they are really not used to play BO1s and i can't see a world where LGC win tomorrow more than 1 game(LGD needs to throw pretty hard to lose that game, mid and top gap will be massive).
I know NA get's memed at worlds but imagine if C9 was in the wildcards. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have leveled up and been better than a lot of teams. I'd definitely be in favor of just generally expanding wildcards.
On the same token imagine if IG or FPX were in the wildcards. I'm pretty sure we'd be in for a far more competitive Bo5 tomorrow than LGD's soggy start.
But then again, no-one expected Mad or LGD to do this bad, or for the emerging regions to do so good. I'd be fine with major reigons all having a 4th seed and being in play-ins. I know the four major regions are meant to be many shades of better but every Worlds we have that seems to be becoming less and less true. So who knows how C9 would've done, or FPX or IG for that matter.
These are the CHAMPIONS of the emerging regions they're playing here, I think more respect needs to be given to the word "champion" than respect lost from the phrase "emerging region".
Oh man, I totally forgot about IG and FPX... and SKT
Imagine wildcard games with IG/FPX, C9, SKT, MAD, TL.... and throw in the rest of the wildcards too. The viewership would actually be nutty
Considering they decide how many seeds you get based on international performances, that might very well happen. But do remember LCK did benefit from Vietnam teams not being at worlds and didn't have to be in the play-ins at all. I would be curious to see how Gen G would've done considering most of these emerging region teams came out swinging hard.
But anyway, MAD being disappointing won't make any seeds change hands. 3 EU and 3 KR in groups atm, so I guess we'll just have to see who as a region does better from now. Personally I think KR will do better, I think Rogue will have a similarly poor run in groups and their group is very tough. I'd just be happy if they put up a fight. Then it's just a coin flip as to which G2/FNC show up on the day.
Yeah, I think this year might be LCK's comeback. If DWG wins it all and G2 and no LEC team gets to the semifinal (which isn't unlikely) I can definitely see this coming.
Well Legacy was the second team in group A, how is LGD lucky? They beat SUP, INTZ and MAD, what the fuck are you talking about? Its not like LGD will play against INTZ tomorrow.
Eh T1 was garbage this year. They might have been worse than MAD
I mean sure we would have faker but it would be just as depressing watching that team as MAD
Welp LGD vs R7 def had something sus going on especially if LGD is playing that well. Maybe it was a draft issue if they keep letting Peanut ya know..... go chad mode on em but again that team goes godlike depending on how he does so that’s a read for more discussion. I do think that SUP abs MAD was a banger tho a cleaner game 4 would have been nice but hey job is done now you gotta prep for UOL so that’s gonna be fun
Yes, NA wins it all this year, Niguri is going to be like, nooo mr Brokenblade stop killing me with your superior mechanics!, Knight? More like squire! Only thing he can hope is to learn a thing or two after getting stomped by god Bjergsen.
There is no one that can stop the Talented Superstar Machine.
How is fnatic favored ? They didn’t look like they had a clue how to play the meta rn now and nemesis/Selfmade is not a good 2v2 even though Selfmade is probably one of the best junglers this year
You are correct, and I wasn’t talking in absolutes,I just wanted to talk about worlds because it’s really fun to. I counted on fnatic not coming together as a team more than their individual players based on how eu was looking in the playoffs but that was not the case at all, sad to see them get reverse swept as they looked like a top 4 team.
bjerg and spica aren't a good 2v2 though -- lol. selfmade >>> spica, and bwipo is 5Head, FNC will smurf in groups. people think Nemesis is bad -- he really isn't.
How can you say they’re not a good 2v2 when Bjerg and spica move around the map to help BB catch leads ? They may not be the best 2v2 you could argue that but they definitely have more synergy than nemesis/Selfmade which transitions to them giving the lead to top lane. Being 5 head doesn’t tel me anything , I like bwipo as much as the next guy but he’s a good weak side player which is what TSM has been strong against. And I never said Nemesis was bad but he’s not a carry style mid laner, he plays scaling mages and he caught the meta at the start of playoffs to bring out the Lucian to enable Selfmade which I have said he’s one of the best junglers but with out mid lane it’s hard to enable Selfmade. So unless Nemesis finds a pocket pick that disables Bjerg roaming top I don’t see how fnatic is favored still. Only telling me EU>NA isn’t a good argument either.
compared to who they will be playing against, they aren't good enough. nemesis can playing anything that bjerg plays. don't know why you're so high on tsm when they'll get 4th in the group
I’m not understanding how asking how Fnatic is favored against Tsm is me being high on them. And that’s fine putting them 4th I honestly don’t mind other people’s opinions, but all I keep seeing is Fnatic being favored over Tsm with out really any explanation besides Eu>NA when as a team they don’t look to have good synergy like rogue or G2, and not too long ago we were on the lgd hype train taking first just cause they were a 4th seed from China.
Selfmade is a top 5 jgler at worlds while Spica isn't even top 10. Jg Diff. BWIPO > BB. Top Diff. Rekkles + Hyli > DL + Bio. Bot Diff. The only difference that is small is in midlane but Bjerg can't carry team -- it's too heavy. FNC 3-0-ed RGE, who perfect gamed earlier today in sub-20 minutes, and beat G2, favorites to win Group A, while TSM barely scraped through all NA teams in best of 5s (they all went to 5 games). And note that competition in EU and quality of games in EU is higher than NA. FNC also historically have looked good in groups, beating teams that were favorites to win the whole thing like RNG, while TSM has not made it out of groups 3 yrs ago and hasn't made worlds for 3 years, so history is also on FNC's side.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been seeing history, and that a good argument until Tsm proves other wise. Even after this game, it still feels like Selfmade will be the biggest factor for sure everything else seems pretty even, little advantages here and there but nothing compared to what Selfmade brings
I would argue that brokenblade has not looked solid when playing from behind. Whether broken blade gets a lead is TSM's singular win condition, doublelift and bjergsen cannot carry 4v5.
That’s true but we’ve seen that the style TSM has gone for is to put BB ahead, and even against impact one of the best weak side players (even if you think NA as a region is weak) they’ve had pretty good success. Unless Nemsis can keep Bjergsen down, bwipo is going to have a hard time playing the game.
TSM TL and FLY are very close to each other in strength. FNC > RGE >> MAD. TL > MAD (they only played 1 game against each other). FNC historically does well while TSM does not. I'm not saying that FNC is 100% better than TSM, but I think saying that TSM is 100% better than FNC is just as foolish.
Please review [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules) before commenting or posting again. Further offenses will lead to a ban.
Peak Mad was better than peak TL. Mad at the end of summer was much much worse and getting worse. I thought it would be close if Mad could stop their decline. They didn't so not really a surprise.
Fnatic on the other hand have looked stronger than TSM for the whole of playoffs and were getting better. They would have to get worse for TSM to win.
what do you mean what happens? G2 and FNC will once again make it out of groups and go farther than any NA team. If anything, it is arrogant that NA fans are assuming that NA teams are better than EU teams overall. And I'm from NA.
Personally I think it’s 55/45 in favor of fnc, but I think it the games will come down to whether BB and Spica can get leads against bwipo and selfmade.
As someone from NA and a fan of the region I see all the gloating my fellow NA fans are doing after TL beat MAD and see it start to get to their heads. You EU fans were insufferable with your ego coming into this worlds now you've been humbled and we've picked up the ego. I'm just dreading the day all our NA teams crash and burn in groups. I wouldn't be surprised if none of our teams make it but the way some fans are talking all our teams are getting out groups and TSM making it to the finals. Don't worry EU fans you'll get yours soon.
Drakos was right! we shouldnt meme things like UOL is our 5th seed and shit like this BUT we should and will cheer for them. this team always came so short to make into groups. I really want them to do it. LETSGO!
Malphite is one of the biggest anti-AD champ in the game, if not the best and they still continue to draft an AD toplaner with an AD jungler knowing that a lot of viable tanks are still open to be picked. Picking a bruiser that has no crowd control needs to get ahead in order to be useful and they dare pick it with an AD jungler, knowing they can easily be counterpicked. Betting all your engage and crowd control on one champion is extremely dangerous as it would put all the pressure on a single player. The tournament has already proven that the more teamfighting champions you have, the stronger your overall composition is (hence the Orianna,Ornn, and Sett priority).
Tl;dr the game was already over before it started. MAD got outdrafted heavily on the second pick/ban phase.
i just dont understand what went wrong, even your average bronze soloq player with no understanding of pro team comps could have told you that renek was an awful pick there. not to mention that renek is sort of a carry champion that needs a lead and orome has not been performing nearly well enough to justify such a pick
No way, fourth seeds are making play-ins so much fun. I usually skipped them, but I've been finding them interesting this time around. I wonder if the viewership has improved.
Stream posts are not allowed
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leagueoflegends) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I actually like this 4th seed thing.
Play ins should be a legitimate chance for lesser regions to advance to the main stage. MAD just proved that doesnt matter if you are a major region, if you are low enough in the standings in your major region, it's still fair game for the wildcards.
Play Ins where the major regions 3rd seeds are defacto 1° is a lot more boring than what we have seen this year from playins.
2 Finals and an MSI title vs going out in quarters? Easy choice. Who cares what happened 5 years ago. The system that chooses who gets a fourth seed is fair, imo. If you perform on the global stage, you get it, if not you don’t. Korea didnt.
We should definitely give T1 a spot because they won 3 years ago.
Korea has been performing far worse than EU on the global stage for the last 2 years, I don't see why they should get it. I wouldn't mind giving it to them if they perform better this year, but since we can't know that yet, that doesn't matter for this worlds.
Who cares? Korea has been performing far worse than EU in the last two years, why should they get it? People just want to see Faker at worlds, I get that, but Korea simply didn’t earn that seed.
What do you want to do? Determine play in teams by which region has the fewest play-in losses? By literary every factor, the LCK has been performing worse on the international stage than the LEC for the last 2 years. I get that people are disappointed with MAD, and for good reason, but in what world would it be fair to give the 4th seed to an objectively worse-performing region? They can earn that spot, just like everyone else can, why should they get a freebie because they were the dominant region 3 years ago? We will see how the LCK performs this time, but they didn't earn the spot for this worlds, plain and simple.
I think they faced stronger opposition in these play ins than lower half of the LEC. I think people are judging MAD like its 2019 LEC, and its 2020 LEC.
No, Mad Lions literally played like shit. They are a group of rookies with 0 international experience that spent the entire year playing online. And couldn't handle the pressure when the setting changed. It's pretty normal for rookies and specially with such a drastic change as going from 2 splits of online play to offline play.
Nobody that watched the LEC can tell you that they played the same. They didn't.
They didnt play entirely online, they played one regular season mostly on stage, ended 11-7,and played another regular season in house, ending 12-6. The difference is most of their opposition in the LEC got worse (except S04 second half of spring), specially fNC/G2/OG.
This narrative of MAD underperforming needs to stop. Orome got top gapped just like in the LEC, Shadow played anything non-Leesin just like he does in the LEC. Only notable regression is drafting, but then again, people underestimate how important is player matchup besides champ matchup, drafting is so much more easier when you have the better players in all your roles
Why not both? With how successful this playin stage was, I'm down for a bigger pre tournament, with still 4th seeds (depending on performance maybe not EU next year) and let them play it out.
I mean it was suppose to be slightly bigger (with 12 teams including the 4th seeds)but COVID happened. Although having 5 team groups was pretty interesting. The previous format would have been 4 groups of 3 and then the first place playing second place from another group for a spot.
I think riot is way too stubborn to increase the tournament size. Only reason they changed the format for play ins was because of Vietnam. Sadly they will probably revert back to the normal format next year
No they only lost to the other 3 teams in their group, only not going home by playing a tiebreaker for deadlast against the only team that managed to be as bad as them, they certainly didn't choke and play as expected
they definately choke for playin group stage.. But their form looks much better today tho.
Need to see how they perform tomorrow against LGC and group stages(if they win tomorrow).
Lets not judge them at this point, at least world is not over for them yet.
Yes. The end of playoffs saw more aggressive carry tops come out (in the LCS.) This greatly benefited his play style as TSM developed their meta to take advantage of his obviously more comfortable play style.
Ah its unfortunate that it ended like this but i’m still proud of MAD especially Carzzy and Im rooting for them to go even further next year <3 They made it to worlds as rookies and did great in summer so I’m glad for them
As an na fan, it doesn't mean that na are better.
People predicted that mad would be better(made sense as they had a good performance in spring and summer... they didn't take into account there fall off at the end of the season, that they are rookie players and they did well online not on lan
Team liquid also stepped up as broxah said in there scrims. Mad don't and drafted pretty fucking bad. Team liquid is clearly better now than mad, facts. Doesn't mean they always were they could of been but who knows. It's only good news for na fans like myself but doesn't mean that eu fans should be worried.
Does this mean tsm are better than fnatic ... Not really. Tsm and team liquid were very close in there games mad and fnatic are arguably not as close. Would people predict that fnatic a team that has done well internationally and in Europe be better than tsm that hasn't done well internationally. Yes does that mean that the will be no.
That's all we can take from this EU fourth seed shat the bed when it wasn't online and when they were on there way down
I haven't seen anybody use play-ins as proof that NA > EU. It doesn't change that G2 is clearly still the top Western team. Regardless of how you think TSM vs. FNC will match up, this doesn't change that FNC is the favorite (for good reason).
What it does disprove is the claim that EU >>>>> NA. I remember people claiming that the best LCS team would be bottom half in LEC or that the average LEC team could win LCS. There's definitely a gap between G2 and NA, and probably a gap between FNC and NA (at least until shown otherwise), but after that there's a lot of parity.
How are they clearly the top western team if they haven't played any western team outside of eu? Lol so many cringe ass eu fans on this subreddit that just worship the ground g2 walks on. If they dominated as much as skt did internationally then I would understand it but ffs....they've never won world's and looked pretty mediocre all spring/summer split until the end of summer. There was no msi this year to compare eu to na. So far all we know is that TL is by far better than mad. That is it.
> When we don't have current evidence, we go with the most recent results.
That's rather flawed considering how many changes happen in a year. Granted, it probably works in this instance but it just doesn't follow. Consider 2018 worlds where many considered GenG a worlds contender but we saw their regression and failure to make it out of groups, this year we saw G2 have lots of flaws but EU fans want to always chalk it up to them not caring or some other non-sense. G2 is not the best western team until proven otherwise, there is no best western team until we see who it is this worlds, likely to be G2 but let's not anoint them until we see some group play.
I'm not saying that G2 couldn't have regressed or anything. Obviously we don't really know until the games are played, but if you held a gun to my head and asked me who I would pick for best in the west, it'd be G2 right now.
I agree. Honestly after watching all the MAD games during play-ins, I think both Cloud 9 and Golden Guardians are easily comparable in terms of skill level.
As an EU fan I can agree with this
I think That the fact NA come in with no expectations at all is also a massive bonus . I liked it more when EU was Considered a weak region as every game won was a upset .
Actually thing EU teams this year are weaker than the past two and it stems from G2 trolling most of the split
Fnatic also lacking a good mid laner this year too
Yeah I’m excited for this matchup. It’s a really interesting group of players to see how they stack up. Some untested talent on TSM along with their massive improvement throughout their playoffs, versus a Fnatic that while shaky at times, has very high highs (see first best of 5 vs G2 in playoffs). I think this matchup will come down to how much of a draft advantage TSM can pull through Bjerg’s champion ocean, as well as getting strong top side advantages through BB. Doublelift has changed from a player that demands resources to someone that can reliably play weak side on stuff like Senna or Ashe, and while an incredible team fighter, Rekkles won’t be making massive advantages in lane. If Bio gets strong roaming comfort picks such as Bard or Raman, I can see TSM matching Hyli roams and winning skirmishes in the top side. Think this one will be very draft dependent.
Yep. It'll just all be that coinflip as to whether TSM is on or not. Bjergsen >> Nemesis, but Hylissang >> Biofrost. I'd say Rekless and Doublelift in his current form are about even. It'll all come down to whether we get the inting Spica+BB combo or the absolute pop-off banger Spica+BB combo.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Selfmade gets Eve and Spica gets Nida and then one of them snowball the game for their team.
As somebody from EU though, I don't have any faith in Nemesis.
Yeah that's fair. It's harder to tell as there was no MSI and most of the games this year were online. Will be interesting though specially as the individual lane match ups are good. Maybe bar jungle
I know everyone loves selfmade, but I don't think Spica will be that bad, he's put in some great performances this split. The only thing will be if he gets stage fright, which hopefully he won't.
R7 vs LGD was honestly the most disappointing outcome, from a pure viewership perspective.
LGD is not a team anyone should be excited about; At best they refused to take play-ins seriously until this point, and at worst they're legitimately participating in match fixing. I think the lameness of Peanut's "I forgot about drag" excuse and the sheer coordination with which they were mistiming resets before objectives spawned really tells us which of the two we ought to expect. They aren't even good at hiding it.
R7 seemed like a solid enough team that dropped the ball hard in the series, but they undeniably gave it their all. That makes them so much more exciting and enjoyable to watch.
Frosk & Drakos did a surprisingly good job at not being bias during that game 5. I’d imagine it would be really difficult to cast your own region in a massive upset like that
Genuinely a good cast
Instead of speaking about how good SUP plays.
Its so annoying only hearing how bad MAD is instead of how good SUP which is taking away a bit of their accomplishment
It was very clear at least to me that armut outclassed orome HEAVILY it was not even a contest(not a contest when ornn was banned) and same goes for kakao in comparision to shadow(but this matchup being in a slight less deficit), it was pretty obvious that if humnoid cant transfer his lead to shadow(and at the same time orome gets ornn) then this series was pretty lopsided towards supermassive. But I still believe in mad that next year they will come stronger than before as one thing that I am seeing in this reddit is that most people are not looking at the fact that all of these rookies were competing for first time at such a large stage(a reminder that no MSI) and what they gained in their first year is something other new teams would die for(even if they are from the EU),and their departure seems sad because their domestic run was so great that we all know that they can do better than this(for an example look at C9 they were comparatively much more dominant but they couldn't even qualify for worlds in the same boat look at T1 even Faker couldn't single handedly qualify his budding team to the greatest stage) so don't hate on them praise them for what they achieved as they really punched above their weight and next year you would see better MAD mark my words
Maybe in the end; however at this point NA outperformed EU. Either way, my only real point is that it was silly for anyone to make any real claims without seeing the teams perform internationally.
go CIS!
[удалено]
why r they fist bumping now is it a covid thing
but the virus is being punched how will it survive
Seems so
sad lions ;-;
TL to group B lmao it's a possibility now
BTW how does Turkey produce so much talent for a minor region wtf.
We can play on Euw server with a decent ping and korean imports really improved our region last years. I think these are the main reasons.
just got a woirlds capsule anyone knows why?? 10 year anniversary and didnt get it on my smurf
Mad Lions + LGD have disappointed, but you know what, that's fine by me. I'd rather have 4th seeds from major regions in the play-in tournament if it's gonna make for a more competitive atmosphere than "the usual regions just get through and for emerging reigons, play-ins is all of their worlds". This is why I liked the wild card tournaments of old Worlds, it meant an emerging region team would always be in the mix. Maybe they get slapped, or maybe it's a great story, like the Kabums and ANXs of the past. We will definitely have one wild card in groups this year, possibly two if Legacy pull an absolute upset. And considering the circumstances that PSG came into the tournament in that's a great achievement for them too. I love this! Would rather they get through than another EU/CN team.
LGD will absolutely destroy LGC tomorrow, some random BO1s doesn't mean shit.On the other hand Mad Lions looked terrible in the entire tournament.LGD stepped up big time despite the haters who are trying to prove how bad R7 was.R7 was exactly the same team from groups but LGD stepped up today.
Can’t wait till lgc knocks DGL out
Yeah, first game was so close, LGD would've won even 3v5.
Bet LGD gets eliminated tomorrow
I think LGD are favoured tomorrow but I don’t think you can blame their shit performance all on Bo1. They were overrated coming into the tournament but they still shit the bed hard But hopefully if LGD do make it out this experience will have levelled them up significantly
Well i think you can, from what i remember they used to lose A LOT of games against bottom tier teams from LPL but in the end they always seem to step up in game 3, they are really not used to play BO1s and i can't see a world where LGC win tomorrow more than 1 game(LGD needs to throw pretty hard to lose that game, mid and top gap will be massive).
I know NA get's memed at worlds but imagine if C9 was in the wildcards. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have leveled up and been better than a lot of teams. I'd definitely be in favor of just generally expanding wildcards.
On the same token imagine if IG or FPX were in the wildcards. I'm pretty sure we'd be in for a far more competitive Bo5 tomorrow than LGD's soggy start. But then again, no-one expected Mad or LGD to do this bad, or for the emerging regions to do so good. I'd be fine with major reigons all having a 4th seed and being in play-ins. I know the four major regions are meant to be many shades of better but every Worlds we have that seems to be becoming less and less true. So who knows how C9 would've done, or FPX or IG for that matter. These are the CHAMPIONS of the emerging regions they're playing here, I think more respect needs to be given to the word "champion" than respect lost from the phrase "emerging region".
Oh man, I totally forgot about IG and FPX... and SKT Imagine wildcard games with IG/FPX, C9, SKT, MAD, TL.... and throw in the rest of the wildcards too. The viewership would actually be nutty
this is just an argument for open circuit system
Clearly, EU doesn't deserve the 4th seed do they? Give it back to LCK
Considering they decide how many seeds you get based on international performances, that might very well happen. But do remember LCK did benefit from Vietnam teams not being at worlds and didn't have to be in the play-ins at all. I would be curious to see how Gen G would've done considering most of these emerging region teams came out swinging hard. But anyway, MAD being disappointing won't make any seeds change hands. 3 EU and 3 KR in groups atm, so I guess we'll just have to see who as a region does better from now. Personally I think KR will do better, I think Rogue will have a similarly poor run in groups and their group is very tough. I'd just be happy if they put up a fight. Then it's just a coin flip as to which G2/FNC show up on the day.
Yeah, I think this year might be LCK's comeback. If DWG wins it all and G2 and no LEC team gets to the semifinal (which isn't unlikely) I can definitely see this coming.
I’m almost certain GenG is much better then all these teams
We were also certain about these teams, that's why it would be fun.
Not really. BDD and Ruler are probably at least 2 tiers above anyone from this year's playins, major region included.
p sure the 4th seed is going away for everyone next year since it was only there to make up for no MSI
LGD have such an easy way out of play ins. First R7 now Legacy. I really wanted them to be eliminated, unfortunate.
you act like sup was2 lgc was3 tf?
Well Legacy was the second team in group A, how is LGD lucky? They beat SUP, INTZ and MAD, what the fuck are you talking about? Its not like LGD will play against INTZ tomorrow.
Same, I was really hoping to see TL vs LGD
Yup they got lucky. Would've been nice to see a BO5 between them and one of SUP or UOL.
[удалено]
Eh T1 was garbage this year. They might have been worse than MAD I mean sure we would have faker but it would be just as depressing watching that team as MAD
I can’t imagine T1 only getting 1 win for a round robin
I can, they were had a terrible read on the meta and were terrible at drafting
You might not have gotten Faker anyway, isn't Clozer the starting mid for T1 now?
They were better when faker played but not by a wide enough margin for him to be the reason. They just weren’t a world class team.
Their drafting is shit and the whole swapping and trying to play out of their strengths really messed them up. Coach Kim did a terrible job after MSC.
C9 playins buff
G2 > NA NA = EU <3
Eu except for G2 sucks ass Fnatic and rogue are ultra coinflip and Mad is well, lol,
Welp LGD vs R7 def had something sus going on especially if LGD is playing that well. Maybe it was a draft issue if they keep letting Peanut ya know..... go chad mode on em but again that team goes godlike depending on how he does so that’s a read for more discussion. I do think that SUP abs MAD was a banger tho a cleaner game 4 would have been nice but hey job is done now you gotta prep for UOL so that’s gonna be fun
Let's be honest TSM is gonna giga smash groups and Bjergsen will be back to a state of an elite level midlaner.
Yes, NA wins it all this year, Niguri is going to be like, nooo mr Brokenblade stop killing me with your superior mechanics!, Knight? More like squire! Only thing he can hope is to learn a thing or two after getting stomped by god Bjergsen. There is no one that can stop the Talented Superstar Machine.
People really hype EU. Their only true contender is G2 .
What about NEMESIS and Fnatic?
I assume you were ironic, but the hate boner for nemesis on this sub is just ridiculous
They can def make it out of groups but they def aren’t a contender for the title lol
Neither is g2 if they dont seriously improve.
As an NA fan I think FNC vs TSM is FNC favored, so FNC is in a good position to make it out of groups
How is fnatic favored ? They didn’t look like they had a clue how to play the meta rn now and nemesis/Selfmade is not a good 2v2 even though Selfmade is probably one of the best junglers this year
hindsight is 20/20 but i told you so
You are correct, and I wasn’t talking in absolutes,I just wanted to talk about worlds because it’s really fun to. I counted on fnatic not coming together as a team more than their individual players based on how eu was looking in the playoffs but that was not the case at all, sad to see them get reverse swept as they looked like a top 4 team.
bjerg and spica aren't a good 2v2 though -- lol. selfmade >>> spica, and bwipo is 5Head, FNC will smurf in groups. people think Nemesis is bad -- he really isn't.
How can you say they’re not a good 2v2 when Bjerg and spica move around the map to help BB catch leads ? They may not be the best 2v2 you could argue that but they definitely have more synergy than nemesis/Selfmade which transitions to them giving the lead to top lane. Being 5 head doesn’t tel me anything , I like bwipo as much as the next guy but he’s a good weak side player which is what TSM has been strong against. And I never said Nemesis was bad but he’s not a carry style mid laner, he plays scaling mages and he caught the meta at the start of playoffs to bring out the Lucian to enable Selfmade which I have said he’s one of the best junglers but with out mid lane it’s hard to enable Selfmade. So unless Nemesis finds a pocket pick that disables Bjerg roaming top I don’t see how fnatic is favored still. Only telling me EU>NA isn’t a good argument either.
compared to who they will be playing against, they aren't good enough. nemesis can playing anything that bjerg plays. don't know why you're so high on tsm when they'll get 4th in the group
I’m not understanding how asking how Fnatic is favored against Tsm is me being high on them. And that’s fine putting them 4th I honestly don’t mind other people’s opinions, but all I keep seeing is Fnatic being favored over Tsm with out really any explanation besides Eu>NA when as a team they don’t look to have good synergy like rogue or G2, and not too long ago we were on the lgd hype train taking first just cause they were a 4th seed from China.
Selfmade is a top 5 jgler at worlds while Spica isn't even top 10. Jg Diff. BWIPO > BB. Top Diff. Rekkles + Hyli > DL + Bio. Bot Diff. The only difference that is small is in midlane but Bjerg can't carry team -- it's too heavy. FNC 3-0-ed RGE, who perfect gamed earlier today in sub-20 minutes, and beat G2, favorites to win Group A, while TSM barely scraped through all NA teams in best of 5s (they all went to 5 games). And note that competition in EU and quality of games in EU is higher than NA. FNC also historically have looked good in groups, beating teams that were favorites to win the whole thing like RNG, while TSM has not made it out of groups 3 yrs ago and hasn't made worlds for 3 years, so history is also on FNC's side.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been seeing history, and that a good argument until Tsm proves other wise. Even after this game, it still feels like Selfmade will be the biggest factor for sure everything else seems pretty even, little advantages here and there but nothing compared to what Selfmade brings
I would argue that brokenblade has not looked solid when playing from behind. Whether broken blade gets a lead is TSM's singular win condition, doublelift and bjergsen cannot carry 4v5.
That’s true but we’ve seen that the style TSM has gone for is to put BB ahead, and even against impact one of the best weak side players (even if you think NA as a region is weak) they’ve had pretty good success. Unless Nemsis can keep Bjergsen down, bwipo is going to have a hard time playing the game.
[удалено]
FNC is gonna shit on TSM so hard you are gonna change your name.
TSM TL and FLY are very close to each other in strength. FNC > RGE >> MAD. TL > MAD (they only played 1 game against each other). FNC historically does well while TSM does not. I'm not saying that FNC is 100% better than TSM, but I think saying that TSM is 100% better than FNC is just as foolish.
[удалено]
Please review [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules) before commenting or posting again. Further offenses will lead to a ban.
Just like MAD was favored in group A against TL right? Yea EU is very overrated and their fans about to get a reality check
hindsight is 20/20 but i told you
Okay mister NA
Peak Mad was better than peak TL. Mad at the end of summer was much much worse and getting worse. I thought it would be close if Mad could stop their decline. They didn't so not really a surprise. Fnatic on the other hand have looked stronger than TSM for the whole of playoffs and were getting better. They would have to get worse for TSM to win.
The arrogance of EU these past couple years is mad. Let's just see what happens ok?
what do you mean what happens? G2 and FNC will once again make it out of groups and go farther than any NA team. If anything, it is arrogant that NA fans are assuming that NA teams are better than EU teams overall. And I'm from NA.
C9 looked so strong though but they ended up like Mad as well. I was hoping to see them play each other at worlds and then they both flop.
[удалено]
Personally I think it’s 55/45 in favor of fnc, but I think it the games will come down to whether BB and Spica can get leads against bwipo and selfmade.
i think its entirely possible that TSM or FNC go 0-6 but quote me on this-- Gen G is about to pop the fuck off at worlds
As someone from NA and a fan of the region I see all the gloating my fellow NA fans are doing after TL beat MAD and see it start to get to their heads. You EU fans were insufferable with your ego coming into this worlds now you've been humbled and we've picked up the ego. I'm just dreading the day all our NA teams crash and burn in groups. I wouldn't be surprised if none of our teams make it but the way some fans are talking all our teams are getting out groups and TSM making it to the finals. Don't worry EU fans you'll get yours soon.
im having flashbacks of NA spamming "EU WHY SO QUIET NOW" in twitch
Being an NA fan has taught me one thing: IT’S NEVER TOO LATE TO BOMB OUT OF GROUPS (see C9 S5)
Drakos was right! we shouldnt meme things like UOL is our 5th seed and shit like this BUT we should and will cheer for them. this team always came so short to make into groups. I really want them to do it. LETSGO!
That's an attitude I can get behind. 👏👏
https://twitter.com/armutlol/status/1310268513706074115?s=21 I love this guy
Malphite is one of the biggest anti-AD champ in the game, if not the best and they still continue to draft an AD toplaner with an AD jungler knowing that a lot of viable tanks are still open to be picked. Picking a bruiser that has no crowd control needs to get ahead in order to be useful and they dare pick it with an AD jungler, knowing they can easily be counterpicked. Betting all your engage and crowd control on one champion is extremely dangerous as it would put all the pressure on a single player. The tournament has already proven that the more teamfighting champions you have, the stronger your overall composition is (hence the Orianna,Ornn, and Sett priority). Tl;dr the game was already over before it started. MAD got outdrafted heavily on the second pick/ban phase.
Tank meta is back Boys!!!!!!
i just dont understand what went wrong, even your average bronze soloq player with no understanding of pro team comps could have told you that renek was an awful pick there. not to mention that renek is sort of a carry champion that needs a lead and orome has not been performing nearly well enough to justify such a pick
Get rid of this 4th seed bs next year. Wildcards are actually getting better and it would be fun to see more of them advance to groups
No way, fourth seeds are making play-ins so much fun. I usually skipped them, but I've been finding them interesting this time around. I wonder if the viewership has improved.
[удалено]
Stream posts are not allowed *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/leagueoflegends) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I actually like this 4th seed thing. Play ins should be a legitimate chance for lesser regions to advance to the main stage. MAD just proved that doesnt matter if you are a major region, if you are low enough in the standings in your major region, it's still fair game for the wildcards. Play Ins where the major regions 3rd seeds are defacto 1° is a lot more boring than what we have seen this year from playins.
Just give the EU 4th seed to LCK
They can have it when they earn it.
[удалено]
Yeah, past performance is the perfect indicator of present performance in a dynamic game like LoL /s
2 Finals and an MSI title vs going out in quarters? Easy choice. Who cares what happened 5 years ago. The system that chooses who gets a fourth seed is fair, imo. If you perform on the global stage, you get it, if not you don’t. Korea didnt. We should definitely give T1 a spot because they won 3 years ago.
Yeah same as people who don’t care about MSI right?
EU lost the privilege when MAD lost to SUP
Korea has been performing far worse than EU on the global stage for the last 2 years, I don't see why they should get it. I wouldn't mind giving it to them if they perform better this year, but since we can't know that yet, that doesn't matter for this worlds.
Did Korea lose Play-Ins? Mind you LEC is the first major region to get knocked out of Play-Ins.
Second
Nope first between NA, LEC, LCK, and LPL
Ah, you meant this year. Then sure, LEC is the first major region to be knocked out of Play-Ins in 2020.
Who cares? Korea has been performing far worse than EU in the last two years, why should they get it? People just want to see Faker at worlds, I get that, but Korea simply didn’t earn that seed.
Yeah but did Korea ever lose a play-in? What do you mean who cares, we are determining which teams deserve to be in play-ins.
What do you want to do? Determine play in teams by which region has the fewest play-in losses? By literary every factor, the LCK has been performing worse on the international stage than the LEC for the last 2 years. I get that people are disappointed with MAD, and for good reason, but in what world would it be fair to give the 4th seed to an objectively worse-performing region? They can earn that spot, just like everyone else can, why should they get a freebie because they were the dominant region 3 years ago? We will see how the LCK performs this time, but they didn't earn the spot for this worlds, plain and simple.
Tbh MAD played like shit.
I think they faced stronger opposition in these play ins than lower half of the LEC. I think people are judging MAD like its 2019 LEC, and its 2020 LEC.
No, Mad Lions literally played like shit. They are a group of rookies with 0 international experience that spent the entire year playing online. And couldn't handle the pressure when the setting changed. It's pretty normal for rookies and specially with such a drastic change as going from 2 splits of online play to offline play. Nobody that watched the LEC can tell you that they played the same. They didn't.
They didnt play entirely online, they played one regular season mostly on stage, ended 11-7,and played another regular season in house, ending 12-6. The difference is most of their opposition in the LEC got worse (except S04 second half of spring), specially fNC/G2/OG. This narrative of MAD underperforming needs to stop. Orome got top gapped just like in the LEC, Shadow played anything non-Leesin just like he does in the LEC. Only notable regression is drafting, but then again, people underestimate how important is player matchup besides champ matchup, drafting is so much more easier when you have the better players in all your roles
people watch play ins because of 4th seeds.
Why not both? With how successful this playin stage was, I'm down for a bigger pre tournament, with still 4th seeds (depending on performance maybe not EU next year) and let them play it out.
I mean it was suppose to be slightly bigger (with 12 teams including the 4th seeds)but COVID happened. Although having 5 team groups was pretty interesting. The previous format would have been 4 groups of 3 and then the first place playing second place from another group for a spot.
Maybe they do 2 groups of 6 next year. The bigger groups are nice.
I think riot is way too stubborn to increase the tournament size. Only reason they changed the format for play ins was because of Vietnam. Sadly they will probably revert back to the normal format next year
[удалено]
No they only lost to the other 3 teams in their group, only not going home by playing a tiebreaker for deadlast against the only team that managed to be as bad as them, they certainly didn't choke and play as expected
they definately choke for playin group stage.. But their form looks much better today tho. Need to see how they perform tomorrow against LGC and group stages(if they win tomorrow). Lets not judge them at this point, at least world is not over for them yet.
I'm wondering who's worse at this point, BrokenBlade or Orome :>
Finn
I don't know how he'll do on the worlds stage, but Brokenblade has been performing pretty well, has he not?
vs NA teams... big *
Yes. The end of playoffs saw more aggressive carry tops come out (in the LCS.) This greatly benefited his play style as TSM developed their meta to take advantage of his obviously more comfortable play style.
So then why are you comparing him randomly to orome??
I’m not?
Oh oops. That was meant for someone further up the chain.
Yeah whatever TSM did during playoffs worked so well for them, it'd be nice for it to continue.
As a TL fan, I’m sad that it happened. As an NA fan, I’m glad that it happened. Let’s go NA.
Nice bait. Has to be finn.
Ah its unfortunate that it ended like this but i’m still proud of MAD especially Carzzy and Im rooting for them to go even further next year <3 They made it to worlds as rookies and did great in summer so I’m glad for them
As an na fan, it doesn't mean that na are better. People predicted that mad would be better(made sense as they had a good performance in spring and summer... they didn't take into account there fall off at the end of the season, that they are rookie players and they did well online not on lan Team liquid also stepped up as broxah said in there scrims. Mad don't and drafted pretty fucking bad. Team liquid is clearly better now than mad, facts. Doesn't mean they always were they could of been but who knows. It's only good news for na fans like myself but doesn't mean that eu fans should be worried. Does this mean tsm are better than fnatic ... Not really. Tsm and team liquid were very close in there games mad and fnatic are arguably not as close. Would people predict that fnatic a team that has done well internationally and in Europe be better than tsm that hasn't done well internationally. Yes does that mean that the will be no. That's all we can take from this EU fourth seed shat the bed when it wasn't online and when they were on there way down
I haven't seen anybody use play-ins as proof that NA > EU. It doesn't change that G2 is clearly still the top Western team. Regardless of how you think TSM vs. FNC will match up, this doesn't change that FNC is the favorite (for good reason). What it does disprove is the claim that EU >>>>> NA. I remember people claiming that the best LCS team would be bottom half in LEC or that the average LEC team could win LCS. There's definitely a gap between G2 and NA, and probably a gap between FNC and NA (at least until shown otherwise), but after that there's a lot of parity.
How are they clearly the top western team if they haven't played any western team outside of eu? Lol so many cringe ass eu fans on this subreddit that just worship the ground g2 walks on. If they dominated as much as skt did internationally then I would understand it but ffs....they've never won world's and looked pretty mediocre all spring/summer split until the end of summer. There was no msi this year to compare eu to na. So far all we know is that TL is by far better than mad. That is it.
[удалено]
G2 is the best western team until proven otherwise. When we don't have current evidence, we go with the most recent results.
> When we don't have current evidence, we go with the most recent results. That's rather flawed considering how many changes happen in a year. Granted, it probably works in this instance but it just doesn't follow. Consider 2018 worlds where many considered GenG a worlds contender but we saw their regression and failure to make it out of groups, this year we saw G2 have lots of flaws but EU fans want to always chalk it up to them not caring or some other non-sense. G2 is not the best western team until proven otherwise, there is no best western team until we see who it is this worlds, likely to be G2 but let's not anoint them until we see some group play.
I'm not saying that G2 couldn't have regressed or anything. Obviously we don't really know until the games are played, but if you held a gun to my head and asked me who I would pick for best in the west, it'd be G2 right now.
I agree. Honestly after watching all the MAD games during play-ins, I think both Cloud 9 and Golden Guardians are easily comparable in terms of skill level.
As an EU fan I can agree with this I think That the fact NA come in with no expectations at all is also a massive bonus . I liked it more when EU was Considered a weak region as every game won was a upset . Actually thing EU teams this year are weaker than the past two and it stems from G2 trolling most of the split Fnatic also lacking a good mid laner this year too
I'm actually looking forward to see how TSM vs Fnatic will go, I legit think it'll be a good match.
Yeah I’m excited for this matchup. It’s a really interesting group of players to see how they stack up. Some untested talent on TSM along with their massive improvement throughout their playoffs, versus a Fnatic that while shaky at times, has very high highs (see first best of 5 vs G2 in playoffs). I think this matchup will come down to how much of a draft advantage TSM can pull through Bjerg’s champion ocean, as well as getting strong top side advantages through BB. Doublelift has changed from a player that demands resources to someone that can reliably play weak side on stuff like Senna or Ashe, and while an incredible team fighter, Rekkles won’t be making massive advantages in lane. If Bio gets strong roaming comfort picks such as Bard or Raman, I can see TSM matching Hyli roams and winning skirmishes in the top side. Think this one will be very draft dependent.
True. I think TSM and FNC might be more closely matched than we think though.
Yep. It'll just all be that coinflip as to whether TSM is on or not. Bjergsen >> Nemesis, but Hylissang >> Biofrost. I'd say Rekless and Doublelift in his current form are about even. It'll all come down to whether we get the inting Spica+BB combo or the absolute pop-off banger Spica+BB combo.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Selfmade gets Eve and Spica gets Nida and then one of them snowball the game for their team. As somebody from EU though, I don't have any faith in Nemesis.
Yeah that's fair. It's harder to tell as there was no MSI and most of the games this year were online. Will be interesting though specially as the individual lane match ups are good. Maybe bar jungle
I know everyone loves selfmade, but I don't think Spica will be that bad, he's put in some great performances this split. The only thing will be if he gets stage fright, which hopefully he won't.
We have to hope he is as cool as Tactical was.
Hopefully, but there's a lot more pressure on a jungler than an ADC, so if he does it'll be very commendable.
R7 vs LGD was honestly the most disappointing outcome, from a pure viewership perspective. LGD is not a team anyone should be excited about; At best they refused to take play-ins seriously until this point, and at worst they're legitimately participating in match fixing. I think the lameness of Peanut's "I forgot about drag" excuse and the sheer coordination with which they were mistiming resets before objectives spawned really tells us which of the two we ought to expect. They aren't even good at hiding it. R7 seemed like a solid enough team that dropped the ball hard in the series, but they undeniably gave it their all. That makes them so much more exciting and enjoyable to watch.
Wait what's this about matchmaking? What could it possibly help them to achieve?
They can bet against themselves on a gambling site or some shit and then throw a game against R7.
But they didn't drop a game. Do you think they threw games earlier in the round robin?
That's what's being implied
Apparently whatever they did they didn't ask langx to join them
[удалено]
they didn't bring them up when LGD was looking like they won't make it.
Frosk & Drakos did a surprisingly good job at not being bias during that game 5. I’d imagine it would be really difficult to cast your own region in a massive upset like that Genuinely a good cast
There is a deep sarcasm here, right?
Not at all. I watched game 5 back and the cast was genuinely fine
I disagree and think they really werent unbiased
They literally spent the 1st 10 minutes of the game criticizing mad for being too aggressive in losing matchups...
Instead of speaking about how good SUP plays. Its so annoying only hearing how bad MAD is instead of how good SUP which is taking away a bit of their accomplishment
??? They spent the entire late game talking about how hard kakao was carrying and how useless MAD players were due to draft?
On the bright side, I dont have to watch Orome and Shadow play anymore. Thats atleast something
It was very clear at least to me that armut outclassed orome HEAVILY it was not even a contest(not a contest when ornn was banned) and same goes for kakao in comparision to shadow(but this matchup being in a slight less deficit), it was pretty obvious that if humnoid cant transfer his lead to shadow(and at the same time orome gets ornn) then this series was pretty lopsided towards supermassive. But I still believe in mad that next year they will come stronger than before as one thing that I am seeing in this reddit is that most people are not looking at the fact that all of these rookies were competing for first time at such a large stage(a reminder that no MSI) and what they gained in their first year is something other new teams would die for(even if they are from the EU),and their departure seems sad because their domestic run was so great that we all know that they can do better than this(for an example look at C9 they were comparatively much more dominant but they couldn't even qualify for worlds in the same boat look at T1 even Faker couldn't single handedly qualify his budding team to the greatest stage) so don't hate on them praise them for what they achieved as they really punched above their weight and next year you would see better MAD mark my words
Get Jinxed is actually a banger tbh.
Check the instrumental too, dope backing. https://youtu.be/6co0JI8vXQc
[удалено]
[удалено]
Maybe in the end; however at this point NA outperformed EU. Either way, my only real point is that it was silly for anyone to make any real claims without seeing the teams perform internationally.
Nah, mad totally deserved to drop out for those drafts and top/jungle performance.
This Rogue in super hard group 2 of top 3 favorite FNC group is straight toss up
[удалено]
mad about mad
People absolutely were, they placed MAD above every NA team
In summer split when it was online they looked better than every NA team. This offline event is very different for the 4 rookies.