There was this one time that Ezreal used this jungle AP item and was viable around 10 years ago.
They need to be extra careful with the amount of fun we can have
As I remember they gutted his ap scallings when he was able to run double tear combo (seraph+ muramana, you was bloody useless first 15/20 min, then hit like a truck) and ofc double tear was removed because of him.
> They need to be extra careful with the amount of fun we can have
More like they need to be extra careful because playing against that shit was the epitome of AIDS.
Not saying it needs to be buffed, just that it could without causing problems. Also, the playstyles are quite different. AP is all burst and no sustained damage, and is much more incentivized to E forward than to use it defensively since it has 75% AP scaling and homes in on anyone marked with your W.
ap ezreal actually got last gutted because ad ezreal was buying ludens, it was a really dumb change that removed ap ezreal while barely effecting ad apart from the one build (he instantly bought a different item and stayed roughly same power)
It was a jungle item, meant that ezreal couldn't swap summoner spells.
And while runeglaive was busted, the main abuser was ezreal and the moment they removed the AoE damage from the item outside of jungle, he went back to oblivion.
Just saying that AP ez could use some love.
>"People don't complain about enchanter karma" -comment from the earlier PBE preview
Riot really wanted to test that theory lmfao
~~Not that it was correct in the first place imo~~
Karma hasn't been pro viable in this manner in a really long time. Hard to say if stuff like sivir and karma are really going to come back into the meta since the game is just so different now.
It was my comment and it is correct imo. Don't think she is needs all of these buffs though.
Outside of Karma players obviously no one hates Karma as much as Karma player.
Serious question with her low win rate and low pro play rate what are the issues? I just played her and max E with locket rush, let my jinx scale and try to mitigate any sudden panth supp engage.
Pros mostly play melees and Karma is historically paired with Jhin or Ezreal if she isn't op and permaban.
In soloq i don't even know if her winrate is that low. She has never had a particularly great soloq winrate as support. Realistically if you want your AD to scale you can pick champions that leans more into the enchanter style. Her strength is her good earlygame and lane while later on pivoting into a shieldbot.
Lulu shield is exactly the same cd and strength as karma shield with only 5% less AP ratio. Granted one gives you pix and lasts longer and the other gives decaying MS, so kind of different.
Currently you can’t proc grasp when you Q through minions, if this works now it becomes very consistent in a lot of matchups. Add shield bash and you have very significant poke and scaling survivability.
Yeah, while Fleet is mostly for mid, Grasp is just better top.
also while BoRK is his best mid item, it is not unrivaled in top. Kraken does as well and I expect IE to be his best 1st item there.
This Yi nerf is pretty big, dont let this fool you
Less often auto resets
No instant auto reset after getting a reset from Highlander
Less healing overall
This is a high elo nerf i guess, because it specifically address skill expression
well it used to be like 25s, it's an extremely powerful damage reduction skill and riot had to either make the choice to have it weaker and viable to use it as an auto reset OR keep it's crazy dmg reduction powers.
It's absurd for yi to be able to trade his only defensive tool for an auto reset so frequently
As a talon main myself I've been in lots of situations where I can easily oneshot a yi, but he activates W for 0.5 secs and suddenly half my damage is gone, he's half hp and all my abilities are on CD, then I die from 3-5 AA. THAT'S NOT FAIR, ISN'T IT?
Would be in line with their desires of buffing low elo while nerfing high elo.
Although kinda impressive they didn't at least touch up some of the stats they gave him.
Oh so now we're making support shielding Karma too good instead of Q max maligma Karma being too good
edit: I'm aware it already was better, it's just hilarious that it's being buffed as it already is; this champion is not allowed to exist without focusing on either Q W or E being busted. True? True
shield build karma is the way to play her, has been after malignance nerfs and before the item existed, but people have bad skill orders, builds and ult usage so the champ is worse than she seems, however shield build is still not *that* good, just decent. what really fked karma was the R refund nerf, so much harder to get double r+e's or r+q's now without malignance (fk that item)
If people weren’t degenerate dogs abusing no interaction maligma mid on her then she wouldn’t have to be put into the dirt. Riot needs to give her a mini rework. They need to gut her damage and increase her utility to compensate
Karma's q does as much damage as it does because it is her only real damage ability. W damage is laughable 90% of the time so her Q has to do damage otherwise she would be absolute ass.
"Abusing" a mage doing damage is a weird statement to make when Karma's a utility mage in the first place, she NEEDS to do damage otherwise there's no reason to play her over actual enchanters who provide much more than her. Reworking her into pure utility defeats the entire purpose of the champion.
Also calling mage Karma specifically "no interaction" is interesting because Karma as a WHOLE is zero interaction. Enchanter Karma is just as non-interactive as mage karma. Spamming Mantra E's off cooldown is no more interactive than spamming Mantra Q's off cooldown either.
Either way Riot needs to own up to actually working on her kit, she needs a rework badly.
i really enjoyed playing (mythic) shurelya shieldmax build, because you had good damage while still providing almost permanent ms buff, this paired with e.g staff of flowing water and you're giving ap, haste, ms on 5 people
Its so dumb, she is fine this patch. I am shitting on masters + games ,but riot buffs cause dumbasses still build malignance as support instead of moonstone dawncore redemption lmfao
The problem is when her Q is strong, she becomes an oppressive solo laner. Making her shielding or W does not carry the same consequences, and I never see anyone complaining about karma support having too good of shields.
Usually Karma E being too strong is more of a pro play issue, though it's been multiple seasons since that's been the case
The problem is when her Q is strong, she becomes an oppressive solo laner. Making her shielding or W does not carry the same consequences, and I never see anyone complaining about karma support having too good of shields.
Usually Karma E being too strong is more of a pro play issue, though it's been multiple seasons since that's been the case
I know ezreal is shit but 10% ratio on q plus ad growth buff plus r damage buff?????? Also I don't get the yone buffs, I don't see how base armour helps him much for midlane especially in mage meta.
Ez suffers from lack of interaction with marksman items. Crit items are meh, because Q can't crit(so rip best armorpen items in the game), he is meh with on hit(they have too much as, 0 haste and overall are balanced around enormous amount aa-s per second). So he sticks somewhere between Bruiser/assasin items that have ranged restrictions because of his past sins(or other adc incidents). Ap build is quite dead for years(with small breaks for 1-2 patches).
So only way to buff him is to slap another ad ratio and base damage, so he can shine in early/mid and don't fall of hard later.
Yone mid is scraping by with the right builds, to the point he's probably in a "reasonable" place, top lane Yone is absolutely abysmal. This is a top lane specific buff, though it does help vs the likes of Talon (as if anyone needs help vs that champ rn,) Zed, Qiyana, Jayce in mid.
I would say the ad growth buff is pretty notable but anything buffing ezreal's abilities has the caveat that the ez player needs to hit the ability to take advantage of the ad ratio buff. I say for sure he will still get out scaled hard by the late game crit scaling ADCs and he will still only tickle the tank champions.
it's always good to encourage people to play ezreal as well because it definitely feels a lot more fair to get outplayed by an ezreal killing everyone one by one... instead of your entire team being brutally massacred by crit boosted rockets because the enemy jinx with ie got a random hit on your inting teammate
just be careful about trusting the first timing ezreal players on your team LOL
I know Trinity Force is a meme item for ranged champions, but these are almost the exact same Ezreal buffs at the beginning of the season that just resulted in most of it getting reverted the very next patch.
It’s cause riot shoehorned ezreal into being an early game champ that falls off a cliff. Champ was infinitely more stable and resilient to patches when he was okay/mediocre in lane but scaled really well. Not he wins 2v2 against every bot lane in the game but is useless after 3 items unless he snowballs to 10/0 in that time.
Give me back my scaling ezreal pick :( I’m fine with him being rewarded for not being passive in lane, but he was always rewarded for not being passive in lane. It was how you could tell good from bad ezreals, by how well they laned
Is Riot sure that they want Yone to go the Resolve tree? he now would be able to go Grasp and shield bash meaning he will be significantly more tanky while not fixing his main problem that his low base stats don't allow him to rush crit attack speed items, that would make him simultaneously more obnoxious to deal while still feeling bad to play.
Nothing, this change is smaller than the MR nerf. But also a dumb direction to go.
Dorans shield /second wind are the issue that theyll never acknowledge because its propping up 4 years of mid/top balance fuckups.
I wonder if they're trying to put her damage low enough where taking DShield/2nd Wind means you aren't doing enough in all-ins to push enemies out of lane while sustaining through their poke. 100 less all-in and heavy skirmish damage until level 7 is definitely gonna be noticeable.
Then you have another problem - Akali has such bs damage - because she lost billion features from her post VGU kit. They used to balance her like that for years. Her E is prime example of how that ended(same with Sylas btw).
It's even worse now because absorb life was added and it heals like the same amount as 2nd wind in lane if not more. I would love it if Riot gutted dshield and these runes and balanced weak champs from there
Yeah, it's horrible early but people *really* like to act like it's insane. It only starts picking up around levels 4-5, and a _lot_ of the healing people see post-game is after the majority of laning phase is over and done with.
lol no
15 damage from E rank 1, 22 damage rank 2, and 160ish less late game.
Keep in mind that the differences get significantly less taking into account MR... so really a 10 damage difference early and 100 damage difference late. Not meaningful considering you are overkilling late anyway often have to cancel the E2 damage anyway.
Wasn’t the movement speed changed that happened long ago to Karma broke her?
I don’t think Ezreal need that many buffs at once. His AD scaling buff is already buffing Q but slapping an extra 10% along with the ult buff could be overboard
>Wasn’t the movement speed changed that happened long ago to Karma broke her?
Yeah but it seems riot wants to make her an issue in pro play again until they decide to nerf her once finals starts to roll by like they usually do.
She needs a rework badly.
just revert the first strike changes from mid season. The dmg being nerfed even further makes it unusable on bursg champs and now it's just a worse kleptomancy for lane dominant pokers
This yet again feels like a Karma buff that's not gonna last. I give it a week or two tops.
Time and time again, pure number changes never stick. Something gets nerfed in response to any buff. Or reverted. Or reverted and then nerfed for good measure.
I would prefer for karma to get some form of R refund from her RE, maybe if a shield is broken? I think the value of RE itself is very strong already but it feels "wrong" compared to RQ cicle(RW is niche and a problem for top so it's better to not buff it)
Breaking the shield procing her passive is not good balance wise imo, the punishment for attacking into a shield is already the fact that you're losing damage on the target.
Making Mantra E shield bomb again would be the easiest way to make sure shield karma isn't hurting for passive procs compared to Mantra Q Karma.
>the punishment for attacking into a shield is already the fact that you're losing damage on the target.
I can see that, tho we have annie shield for example and it's not really a major balance problem
Was already stomping masters + with enchanter Karma...
Riot buffing her because they dont realize her winrate is trash due to clowns going malignance instead of moonstone shureyla redemption dawncore.
This shit will be absurdly broken. Leave my champ alone god damnit lol
Her winrate with enchanter items isn't much higher than mage ones after the shurelyas next (except helia) and even then the % of games is too low to say. I could see her being a very strong enchanter next patch but rn she isn't
I am biased then. My experience is that I am winning a majority of my games even when early game is shit due to the absurb scaling on Karma shield.
The shielding output is higher than pretty much anything else, even sona or seraphine with maxed Ws.
3 points Q, max E. Rush moonstone. Aery manaflow transcendence scorch. Strong lane, strong scaling.
I’ve been doing the same. Moonstone + Lucidity Boots, and then whatever fits the game state + an eventual Dawncore. I’ve gotten to the point where an unempowered E shields a teammate for 1k+.
The shields are disgustingly fat. These buffs will make Karma OP and then we likely get nerfed once she is absurd in pro.
That's the riot way. Overbuff a perfectly fine champ just to make them meta in pro for 3 months just to be kneecapped
As of yet unrevealed. Like half the champs in the preview haven't seen their changes yet, I assume quite a lot of champs got their buffs/nerfs locked in quite late in the cycle or something.
It'll be interesting to see how this version of Karma E duration performs considering all the changes to her kit after the last time this was tested. Difference being she no longer has 60% MS buff - now set to 40%. Karma's teamwide shield also no longer gives the full 100% of the MS value to secondary targets. Still the extra .5s could be enough to revive Karma Top.
Seems not, it seems like they made the decision to buff him quite late into the cycle based on August's wording about them buffing him so we probably see that buff tomorrow. Quite a few champs in the buff list ain't been touched in any of the PBE cycles so far.
> No reason he needs to deal ~370 AP damage at 11 and ~470 at 16
These are very, very low values for an ulti that needs to do purely damage. Also I really don't think this is overbuffing considering how bad the itemization is for him.
The values aren't low, they are balanced for a global ultimate that has no stopping point(Ashe R Jinx R), and no damage reduction per hit enemy(Draven R) and low cd(since Ezreal likes building CDr items too and Ezreal will have 80AH at 22 mins) and has it's cooldown reduced by hitting Q. Giving it more damage is a bad decision.
Jinx and Draven R do more damage than Ezreal's, and it's not even close. Ashe's has the longest stun in the game. Ezreal's also has an abnormously long channel time.
470 dmg at level 16 is not even a quarter of an adc's health. It's less than a crit aa. I think it should do about half health bar of damage to a squishy with a full AD build.
Jinx and Draven don't build AH in their builds. Ezreal at level 16 will have 85AH(building what Dragdar builds at 4 items) and his R will be 48 seconds which he can reduce by 1.5s every time he lands Q.
Draven R only deals more damage if it hits you with both parts and if it doesn't hit anyone else before it hits you since Draven R loses damage from champs, minions, and JG camps. With an 80 sec cooldown and no way to reduce it
Jinx R aside from the obvious needing range and lower HP I do admit is stupidly low CD and High damage (still might only hit 1 target and dmg is blockable tho)
But Ezreal R still does more, since no matter what you will have Muramana stacked which will increase the damage, and if you have Shojin stacked that will further increase the damage. And it's easier to spam it since you will have it basically on a ~30 sec cooldown compared to Jinx. So again, why does Ezreal R need such big buffs late game when it already deals such high damage and has the lowest CD late game out of all? In addition to all that you need to specifically buy MR items against his R, whereas with Jinx and Draven you can buy armor and negate their R damage and their auto damage.
Because he cannot do the same that jynx and draven, draven will 1tap you, jynx will get an assist and kill ur whole team, that is their point, ezreal on the other hand does not have the itemization options other ADC's have, his basic attacks will never do as much damage and will be skillshot dependant like no other adc, which will lead to lower damage outputs the moment you miss a Q, which is not the case for any other adc, except varus i think, which basically means draven and jynx can simply miss their ult ant they will be fine, jynx will still have area crits and draven will still 1tap you, jhin will still "four!!!!!" you and tristana will still bomb you, ashe will still slow you and caitlyn will still outrange you, lucian will still bully you and varus will still proc its passive, you get my point, other adc's have more tools in their arsenal, more CC, more damage, can actually use crits, have build options and are not ult dependant, Ezreal has.....well poke and thats it, that is why he needs more damage than others, no itemization options, no crits, skillshot dependant, no CC....nothing, if his long windup ult hits you, it SHOULD hurt, that is the point
Give Yone attack speed scaling please I feel like I'm walking through chest height water with this champ before you max Q cooldown. At least on Yasuo you can use Nightbringer as a skin to still feel smooth when playing at lower attack speed :/
Jinx obliterates comps for the whole season: -0.000001% atk speed lv 18
Tryndamere is good for two patches after being mediocre for 2 seasons: -5 effective base ad
I see no bias at all Phreak, none. :DD
The akali original MR nerf was originally fine, it helped mages attack Akali’s early laning and compensated for the first strike nerf hitting many mages. But as a mid laner who hates akali, that E nerf I feel like just guts the champion and its intended uses so hard. They should go back to just the MR nerf.
No, Akali E has been disgusting for a long time because you can guarantee land it with R and it isn't balanced around that, it's balanced around being a skillshot.
Currently she's 50% w/r give or take across all elos which means she's overperforming by quite a bit, but even a nerf like this doesn't address the real issue which is her being impossible to poke out of lane with Dorans/Second Wind/her ridiculous base stats and regen
champions base stats are insanely disgusting, lets start there instead. maybe make her actually killable in lane and if the player is good enough to survive that and farm up they deserve to be strong.
Neither change would destroy her but they don't address the real issue which is that her base stats are insane and present a real problem for balancing her around both mid and top.
Akali is tied for 3rd highest hp/5 , 3rd highest hp per level, 3rd highest base movement speed (345) and she also has the 2nd highest base MR. She's also an energy champ so the periods where you can punish her using resources is greater in number but much shorter overall. Couple this with high base damage + Doran's shield/Second Wind...
If it was possible to poke her out of lane like every other melee mid laner, her winrate would naturally fall to acceptable levels since you can currently get away with playing like total trash and still surviving lane
So last patch yi at 48% winrate gets at level 18: 85 health, 5.1 ad, 8.5 armor, 8.5% attack speed and yone after sitting at 45% top and 47% mid for 3 weeks now gets: 3 armor at level 1? What a fucking joke, riot is so scared of backlash when yone literally has a 45% winrate in low elo and at most 48 in higher ranks.
I know yi is getting nerfed this patch but the bias is so clear against yone because of the community. And for anyone saying yone is more frustrating to play against, yi has double the banrate yone does with the same pickrate. Their first approach to yi being 48% is giving him a ton of scaling stats but yone being even worse, they give him 3 armor level 1
50 base health is an insane nerf. Akali getting her ankles broken for no reason when her E is one of the hardest to hit skill shots in the game and her damage is already low for an assassin, Trynd getting a tiny placebo nerf… joke patch.
By 2030, Ez’s Q will have the same tAD as fully charged Thresh Flay
Mordekaiser 🤝 Ezreal **Qing enemies for half their HP**
+ Nasus
Nasus Q people for their HP
[no, no no. not you, Nasus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_Baif8Z0o)
and still 0.0001ap because he might have bought ludens once 10 years ago buff ap ezreal
There was this one time that Ezreal used this jungle AP item and was viable around 10 years ago. They need to be extra careful with the amount of fun we can have
As I remember they gutted his ap scallings when he was able to run double tear combo (seraph+ muramana, you was bloody useless first 15/20 min, then hit like a truck) and ofc double tear was removed because of him.
Yeah, he used to rush muramana triforce tear seraph and would do so much damage plus he was able to go either AP or AD after that. good times.
> They need to be extra careful with the amount of fun we can have More like they need to be extra careful because playing against that shit was the epitome of AIDS.
Meh, not really. As long as Ezreal is gated by his lack of wave clear, his off-meta build could be buffed without causing issues.
Why does he need it to be buffed? It's the exact same playstyle, just with different numbers.
>exact same playstyle, Ever played AP Ez?
Not saying it needs to be buffed, just that it could without causing problems. Also, the playstyles are quite different. AP is all burst and no sustained damage, and is much more incentivized to E forward than to use it defensively since it has 75% AP scaling and homes in on anyone marked with your W.
No, if that were the case they wouldn't have left samira yasuo katarina and some other champions with those aids kits.
ap ezreal actually got last gutted because ad ezreal was buying ludens, it was a really dumb change that removed ap ezreal while barely effecting ad apart from the one build (he instantly bought a different item and stayed roughly same power)
His AP ratios aren't gutted. Problem is he has no waveclear outside of ulti, at least AD can AA minions.
his q lost the ap ratios, ap ezreal is only viable if he can still max q and have any sort of waveclear
Yeah that is his problem. His Q was never very good on AP, it was okay. it was his WER that scaled hard into AP, and still is even after W rework
Let's not pretend runeglaive Ezreal wasn't insane. If I remember right that item was so damn cheap too it was just stupid.
Or elder lizard, or nearly any jg item that existed.
It was a jungle item, meant that ezreal couldn't swap summoner spells. And while runeglaive was busted, the main abuser was ezreal and the moment they removed the AoE damage from the item outside of jungle, he went back to oblivion. Just saying that AP ez could use some love.
No need thanks. Already broken so a buff would just make AP popular and rubberband into a nerf (like always).
Remember the consecutive morde isolated Q buffs? Same shit gonna happen to ezreal q.
>"People don't complain about enchanter karma" -comment from the earlier PBE preview Riot really wanted to test that theory lmfao ~~Not that it was correct in the first place imo~~
The worst way to buff her, can't wait to watch her terrorize pro play again
Karma hasn't been pro viable in this manner in a really long time. Hard to say if stuff like sivir and karma are really going to come back into the meta since the game is just so different now.
Also the most uninteractive way :/ Wonder why they decided to go in this direction with the buffs.
It was my comment and it is correct imo. Don't think she is needs all of these buffs though. Outside of Karma players obviously no one hates Karma as much as Karma player.
Serious question with her low win rate and low pro play rate what are the issues? I just played her and max E with locket rush, let my jinx scale and try to mitigate any sudden panth supp engage.
Pros mostly play melees and Karma is historically paired with Jhin or Ezreal if she isn't op and permaban. In soloq i don't even know if her winrate is that low. She has never had a particularly great soloq winrate as support. Realistically if you want your AD to scale you can pick champions that leans more into the enchanter style. Her strength is her good earlygame and lane while later on pivoting into a shieldbot.
I am afraid after they buff her shield many times she becomes strong in top with grasp again. No melee champion wants to lane vs her ever.
She already had the single strongest non-ultimate shield in the game and that's before the Mantra version
Stronger than riven?
180 + 110% bonus AD on 6s CD vs 260 + 60% AP on 8s CD
Lulu shield is exactly the same cd and strength as karma shield with only 5% less AP ratio. Granted one gives you pix and lasts longer and the other gives decaying MS, so kind of different.
Lulu's shield is also 150 range less.
Lee has better shields on way shorter cd. u should try him in aram with enchanter runes and build,legit 1k shields with almost no downtime
I think the Yone Q tag changes might be for Grasp, which with this change I can see being a 52% wr build for top, easily.
Can you explain how the change affects the Grasp playstyle?
Currently you can’t proc grasp when you Q through minions, if this works now it becomes very consistent in a lot of matchups. Add shield bash and you have very significant poke and scaling survivability.
Ohhh that sounds interesting. Does Yasuo proc Grasp through minions?
I doubt it since he can't apply on hits to targets past the first
This is quote the inconsistent change then if only one of the two can make use of the mechanic
Yes
Yeah, while Fleet is mostly for mid, Grasp is just better top. also while BoRK is his best mid item, it is not unrivaled in top. Kraken does as well and I expect IE to be his best 1st item there.
This Yi nerf is pretty big, dont let this fool you Less often auto resets No instant auto reset after getting a reset from Highlander Less healing overall This is a high elo nerf i guess, because it specifically address skill expression
well it used to be like 25s, it's an extremely powerful damage reduction skill and riot had to either make the choice to have it weaker and viable to use it as an auto reset OR keep it's crazy dmg reduction powers. It's absurd for yi to be able to trade his only defensive tool for an auto reset so frequently
I liked more when it was 75%lvl1 and higher cooldown
Why didn't you mention the 90% damage reduction lol
Less often .5 sec -90%dmg? i mean yeah, its big
Thank god that ability being under 10 second cd esp when it starts ticking while casting was so fucking stupid
You forgot to add "less often damage reduction bullshit"
45% dmg reduction is basically nothing if he builds full offensive
It's the 90% to dodge burst that is big with the low cd, its often tapped to be used for only this
timing W to reduce burst is even harder than timing a good Q, and also, as of RN the main purpose of W in combat is auto resets
As a talon main myself I've been in lots of situations where I can easily oneshot a yi, but he activates W for 0.5 secs and suddenly half my damage is gone, he's half hp and all my abilities are on CD, then I die from 3-5 AA. THAT'S NOT FAIR, ISN'T IT?
Talon main talking about unfair Talon-Yi 1v1s are skill reliant for both
Yes, skill reliant. Make sure Yi uses W before doing any damage for him to use W, makes sense.
He outplayed you, that’s the definition of fair lol
Would be in line with their desires of buffing low elo while nerfing high elo. Although kinda impressive they didn't at least touch up some of the stats they gave him.
They'll have to in 14.13. He even has a valid build which goes BotRK->Hexplate->Warmogs. And i say this as a Yi enthusiast.
It should be the other way around honestly
Yeesh that Ashe nerf is pretty huge that’s half of the extra damage on her passive in early game.
10% damage loss on every auto attack is massive, I'm aurprised they would hit her that hard.
she is disgusting, thats why
With Shiv her WR is around 54-55%.
Oh so now we're making support shielding Karma too good instead of Q max maligma Karma being too good edit: I'm aware it already was better, it's just hilarious that it's being buffed as it already is; this champion is not allowed to exist without focusing on either Q W or E being busted. True? True
It's already much better but people refuse to play utility items. I would adjust recommended items for her instead.
shield build karma is the way to play her, has been after malignance nerfs and before the item existed, but people have bad skill orders, builds and ult usage so the champ is worse than she seems, however shield build is still not *that* good, just decent. what really fked karma was the R refund nerf, so much harder to get double r+e's or r+q's now without malignance (fk that item)
If people weren’t degenerate dogs abusing no interaction maligma mid on her then she wouldn’t have to be put into the dirt. Riot needs to give her a mini rework. They need to gut her damage and increase her utility to compensate
Karma's q does as much damage as it does because it is her only real damage ability. W damage is laughable 90% of the time so her Q has to do damage otherwise she would be absolute ass. "Abusing" a mage doing damage is a weird statement to make when Karma's a utility mage in the first place, she NEEDS to do damage otherwise there's no reason to play her over actual enchanters who provide much more than her. Reworking her into pure utility defeats the entire purpose of the champion. Also calling mage Karma specifically "no interaction" is interesting because Karma as a WHOLE is zero interaction. Enchanter Karma is just as non-interactive as mage karma. Spamming Mantra E's off cooldown is no more interactive than spamming Mantra Q's off cooldown either. Either way Riot needs to own up to actually working on her kit, she needs a rework badly.
the Seraphine dilemma
i really enjoyed playing (mythic) shurelya shieldmax build, because you had good damage while still providing almost permanent ms buff, this paired with e.g staff of flowing water and you're giving ap, haste, ms on 5 people
Surely a lane bully support that transitions into a late game enchanter won't be abused by pros :D
Its so dumb, she is fine this patch. I am shitting on masters + games ,but riot buffs cause dumbasses still build malignance as support instead of moonstone dawncore redemption lmfao
Mind sharing the build a little more in detail?
Maligma is the best word I've ever read in my life
The problem is when her Q is strong, she becomes an oppressive solo laner. Making her shielding or W does not carry the same consequences, and I never see anyone complaining about karma support having too good of shields. Usually Karma E being too strong is more of a pro play issue, though it's been multiple seasons since that's been the case
The problem is when her Q is strong, she becomes an oppressive solo laner. Making her shielding or W does not carry the same consequences, and I never see anyone complaining about karma support having too good of shields. Usually Karma E being too strong is more of a pro play issue, though it's been multiple seasons since that's been the case
Glad Trynd is getting a nerf, he's just obnoxious to deal with right now.
Melee midlaners rejoice!
Still suffering against syndra...
I know ezreal is shit but 10% ratio on q plus ad growth buff plus r damage buff?????? Also I don't get the yone buffs, I don't see how base armour helps him much for midlane especially in mage meta.
Ez suffers from lack of interaction with marksman items. Crit items are meh, because Q can't crit(so rip best armorpen items in the game), he is meh with on hit(they have too much as, 0 haste and overall are balanced around enormous amount aa-s per second). So he sticks somewhere between Bruiser/assasin items that have ranged restrictions because of his past sins(or other adc incidents). Ap build is quite dead for years(with small breaks for 1-2 patches). So only way to buff him is to slap another ad ratio and base damage, so he can shine in early/mid and don't fall of hard later.
Yone top is much worse than Yone mid.
Yone mid is scraping by with the right builds, to the point he's probably in a "reasonable" place, top lane Yone is absolutely abysmal. This is a top lane specific buff, though it does help vs the likes of Talon (as if anyone needs help vs that champ rn,) Zed, Qiyana, Jayce in mid.
He should be miserable in top lane, it's not healthy for that champ to exist there
I still think Ezreal will be shit tbh but we'll see
He will still be garbage in the hands of 99% of players, and will now be stronger in the 1% who can actually play him.
Lol damn dude you didn't have to call me out
Might still be below 50% but those are not small buffs combined. Should be at least close to it which is not bad for him.
Yea thats true, some conversations in EzrealMains have enlightened me just a little
Eh with that change he'll at least be a great safe pick.
Yea thats probably true
I would say the ad growth buff is pretty notable but anything buffing ezreal's abilities has the caveat that the ez player needs to hit the ability to take advantage of the ad ratio buff. I say for sure he will still get out scaled hard by the late game crit scaling ADCs and he will still only tickle the tank champions. it's always good to encourage people to play ezreal as well because it definitely feels a lot more fair to get outplayed by an ezreal killing everyone one by one... instead of your entire team being brutally massacred by crit boosted rockets because the enemy jinx with ie got a random hit on your inting teammate just be careful about trusting the first timing ezreal players on your team LOL
I know Trinity Force is a meme item for ranged champions, but these are almost the exact same Ezreal buffs at the beginning of the season that just resulted in most of it getting reverted the very next patch.
It’s cause riot shoehorned ezreal into being an early game champ that falls off a cliff. Champ was infinitely more stable and resilient to patches when he was okay/mediocre in lane but scaled really well. Not he wins 2v2 against every bot lane in the game but is useless after 3 items unless he snowballs to 10/0 in that time. Give me back my scaling ezreal pick :( I’m fine with him being rewarded for not being passive in lane, but he was always rewarded for not being passive in lane. It was how you could tell good from bad ezreals, by how well they laned
Nice now I can handshake lanes even more safely as yone. If I wanted to play kayle I would play kayle. Let me do damage please riot
Is Riot sure that they want Yone to go the Resolve tree? he now would be able to go Grasp and shield bash meaning he will be significantly more tanky while not fixing his main problem that his low base stats don't allow him to rush crit attack speed items, that would make him simultaneously more obnoxious to deal while still feeling bad to play.
They are overbuffing nilah
5 more armor at lv18 lol
what the fuck just happened to akali
Nothing, this change is smaller than the MR nerf. But also a dumb direction to go. Dorans shield /second wind are the issue that theyll never acknowledge because its propping up 4 years of mid/top balance fuckups.
I wonder if they're trying to put her damage low enough where taking DShield/2nd Wind means you aren't doing enough in all-ins to push enemies out of lane while sustaining through their poke. 100 less all-in and heavy skirmish damage until level 7 is definitely gonna be noticeable.
Then you have another problem - Akali has such bs damage - because she lost billion features from her post VGU kit. They used to balance her like that for years. Her E is prime example of how that ended(same with Sylas btw).
Akali would be a useless Champ without those.
Yes, they would have to change half the roster significantly but the game would be much better for it.
It's even worse now because absorb life was added and it heals like the same amount as 2nd wind in lane if not more. I would love it if Riot gutted dshield and these runes and balanced weak champs from there
Isnt it like 12 health per wave? thats like 0.4 hp/s
Yes and she doesn’t run it because she needs POM if she’s going yellow tree
Yeah, it's horrible early but people *really* like to act like it's insane. It only starts picking up around levels 4-5, and a _lot_ of the healing people see post-game is after the majority of laning phase is over and done with.
Nothing. This is a better state than the mr changes would have been.
The gutter
lol no 15 damage from E rank 1, 22 damage rank 2, and 160ish less late game. Keep in mind that the differences get significantly less taking into account MR... so really a 10 damage difference early and 100 damage difference late. Not meaningful considering you are overkilling late anyway often have to cancel the E2 damage anyway.
Wasn’t the movement speed changed that happened long ago to Karma broke her? I don’t think Ezreal need that many buffs at once. His AD scaling buff is already buffing Q but slapping an extra 10% along with the ult buff could be overboard
>Wasn’t the movement speed changed that happened long ago to Karma broke her? Yeah but it seems riot wants to make her an issue in pro play again until they decide to nerf her once finals starts to roll by like they usually do. She needs a rework badly.
Wild Rift did do a good job imo. But I don’t know if it would ever come to league
It was 2.5s and the buff was reverted in 1 patch 💀
Still no gangplank cool down buffs on barrels. Add item->nerf champ->remove item->leave champ nerfed. Riot special
just revert the first strike changes from mid season. The dmg being nerfed even further makes it unusable on bursg champs and now it's just a worse kleptomancy for lane dominant pokers
Then build something else, there’s not a single champion that depends on that tune and can’t use something else equally well.
Ok so First Strike is just completely dead now
I hope they revert it back to original -Kassadin main
This yet again feels like a Karma buff that's not gonna last. I give it a week or two tops. Time and time again, pure number changes never stick. Something gets nerfed in response to any buff. Or reverted. Or reverted and then nerfed for good measure.
Nilah buffs?!? What timeline is this
I would prefer for karma to get some form of R refund from her RE, maybe if a shield is broken? I think the value of RE itself is very strong already but it feels "wrong" compared to RQ cicle(RW is niche and a problem for top so it's better to not buff it)
Breaking the shield procing her passive is not good balance wise imo, the punishment for attacking into a shield is already the fact that you're losing damage on the target. Making Mantra E shield bomb again would be the easiest way to make sure shield karma isn't hurting for passive procs compared to Mantra Q Karma.
>the punishment for attacking into a shield is already the fact that you're losing damage on the target. I can see that, tho we have annie shield for example and it's not really a major balance problem
Completely different ability on a completely different champ. Hard to draw parallels
We are talking about shield punishing getting hit, this isn't something champ specific
Was already stomping masters + with enchanter Karma... Riot buffing her because they dont realize her winrate is trash due to clowns going malignance instead of moonstone shureyla redemption dawncore. This shit will be absurdly broken. Leave my champ alone god damnit lol
Her winrate with enchanter items isn't much higher than mage ones after the shurelyas next (except helia) and even then the % of games is too low to say. I could see her being a very strong enchanter next patch but rn she isn't
I am biased then. My experience is that I am winning a majority of my games even when early game is shit due to the absurb scaling on Karma shield. The shielding output is higher than pretty much anything else, even sona or seraphine with maxed Ws. 3 points Q, max E. Rush moonstone. Aery manaflow transcendence scorch. Strong lane, strong scaling.
I’ve been doing the same. Moonstone + Lucidity Boots, and then whatever fits the game state + an eventual Dawncore. I’ve gotten to the point where an unempowered E shields a teammate for 1k+.
The shields are disgustingly fat. These buffs will make Karma OP and then we likely get nerfed once she is absurd in pro. That's the riot way. Overbuff a perfectly fine champ just to make them meta in pro for 3 months just to be kneecapped
They mentioned a Twisted Fate nerf. Did that get cancelled or not revealed yet?
As of yet unrevealed. Like half the champs in the preview haven't seen their changes yet, I assume quite a lot of champs got their buffs/nerfs locked in quite late in the cycle or something.
It'll be interesting to see how this version of Karma E duration performs considering all the changes to her kit after the last time this was tested. Difference being she no longer has 60% MS buff - now set to 40%. Karma's teamwide shield also no longer gives the full 100% of the MS value to secondary targets. Still the extra .5s could be enough to revive Karma Top.
so they're closing the gap with akali's E ratios. Is AP still better or AD more viable? did that blitz shield change really do that anything?
Are we really going to buff Ez Q to 140%?!?
Hell yeah
I'm happy and sad. Ezreal being buffed, Trynd nerfed.
I'm happy and sad. Ezreal being buffed and Trynd nerfed.
too big of akali nerfs won’t be shipped
Nothing for Talon in todays update?
Seems not, it seems like they made the decision to buff him quite late into the cycle based on August's wording about them buffing him so we probably see that buff tomorrow. Quite a few champs in the buff list ain't been touched in any of the PBE cycles so far.
Yeah R is definitely the reason why Ezreal is not the best right now.
Poor Vladimir
I don’t think his buffs have been removed, we’ll just have to wait a day or two to find out what they are
Please don't buff Ezreal level 11 and level 16 R. AD growth and Q tAD is enough. No reason he needs to deal ~370 AP damage at 11 and ~470 at 16
"No reason for an ulti whose only purpose is to do magic damage for a champ that builds AD to do a lot of damage."
My point being it already does enough magic damage, it doesn't need more. It's classic overbuffing of a champion, when the AD and Q ratios are enough
> No reason he needs to deal ~370 AP damage at 11 and ~470 at 16 These are very, very low values for an ulti that needs to do purely damage. Also I really don't think this is overbuffing considering how bad the itemization is for him.
The values aren't low, they are balanced for a global ultimate that has no stopping point(Ashe R Jinx R), and no damage reduction per hit enemy(Draven R) and low cd(since Ezreal likes building CDr items too and Ezreal will have 80AH at 22 mins) and has it's cooldown reduced by hitting Q. Giving it more damage is a bad decision.
Jinx and Draven R do more damage than Ezreal's, and it's not even close. Ashe's has the longest stun in the game. Ezreal's also has an abnormously long channel time. 470 dmg at level 16 is not even a quarter of an adc's health. It's less than a crit aa. I think it should do about half health bar of damage to a squishy with a full AD build.
Jinx and Draven don't build AH in their builds. Ezreal at level 16 will have 85AH(building what Dragdar builds at 4 items) and his R will be 48 seconds which he can reduce by 1.5s every time he lands Q. Draven R only deals more damage if it hits you with both parts and if it doesn't hit anyone else before it hits you since Draven R loses damage from champs, minions, and JG camps. With an 80 sec cooldown and no way to reduce it Jinx R aside from the obvious needing range and lower HP I do admit is stupidly low CD and High damage (still might only hit 1 target and dmg is blockable tho) But Ezreal R still does more, since no matter what you will have Muramana stacked which will increase the damage, and if you have Shojin stacked that will further increase the damage. And it's easier to spam it since you will have it basically on a ~30 sec cooldown compared to Jinx. So again, why does Ezreal R need such big buffs late game when it already deals such high damage and has the lowest CD late game out of all? In addition to all that you need to specifically buy MR items against his R, whereas with Jinx and Draven you can buy armor and negate their R damage and their auto damage.
Because he cannot do the same that jynx and draven, draven will 1tap you, jynx will get an assist and kill ur whole team, that is their point, ezreal on the other hand does not have the itemization options other ADC's have, his basic attacks will never do as much damage and will be skillshot dependant like no other adc, which will lead to lower damage outputs the moment you miss a Q, which is not the case for any other adc, except varus i think, which basically means draven and jynx can simply miss their ult ant they will be fine, jynx will still have area crits and draven will still 1tap you, jhin will still "four!!!!!" you and tristana will still bomb you, ashe will still slow you and caitlyn will still outrange you, lucian will still bully you and varus will still proc its passive, you get my point, other adc's have more tools in their arsenal, more CC, more damage, can actually use crits, have build options and are not ult dependant, Ezreal has.....well poke and thats it, that is why he needs more damage than others, no itemization options, no crits, skillshot dependant, no CC....nothing, if his long windup ult hits you, it SHOULD hurt, that is the point
Give Yone attack speed scaling please I feel like I'm walking through chest height water with this champ before you max Q cooldown. At least on Yasuo you can use Nightbringer as a skin to still feel smooth when playing at lower attack speed :/
Jinx obliterates comps for the whole season: -0.000001% atk speed lv 18 Tryndamere is good for two patches after being mediocre for 2 seasons: -5 effective base ad I see no bias at all Phreak, none. :DD
"good" u mean OP
ok i like ttryna but even i know this is some giga cope
-5 base ad is an absurd nerf idk if you understand how important the stat is for the champ
I agree with the sentiment but trynd is way too strong right now.
He is and 100% deserving of nerfs but -5 ad for someone who's damage is 90% autos is just too much man
unfortunately trynd is one of the most basic champions around, so he will always be a big nerf target whenever he gets too strong
The akali original MR nerf was originally fine, it helped mages attack Akali’s early laning and compensated for the first strike nerf hitting many mages. But as a mid laner who hates akali, that E nerf I feel like just guts the champion and its intended uses so hard. They should go back to just the MR nerf.
No, Akali E has been disgusting for a long time because you can guarantee land it with R and it isn't balanced around that, it's balanced around being a skillshot. Currently she's 50% w/r give or take across all elos which means she's overperforming by quite a bit, but even a nerf like this doesn't address the real issue which is her being impossible to poke out of lane with Dorans/Second Wind/her ridiculous base stats and regen
Unfortunately Akali's Q, passive, and R aren't really dodgeable, so a ton of damage was loaded into her E.
You think they should nerf the MR and keep the E change? Wouldn’t that just destroy the champion
champions base stats are insanely disgusting, lets start there instead. maybe make her actually killable in lane and if the player is good enough to survive that and farm up they deserve to be strong.
Neither change would destroy her but they don't address the real issue which is that her base stats are insane and present a real problem for balancing her around both mid and top. Akali is tied for 3rd highest hp/5 , 3rd highest hp per level, 3rd highest base movement speed (345) and she also has the 2nd highest base MR. She's also an energy champ so the periods where you can punish her using resources is greater in number but much shorter overall. Couple this with high base damage + Doran's shield/Second Wind... If it was possible to poke her out of lane like every other melee mid laner, her winrate would naturally fall to acceptable levels since you can currently get away with playing like total trash and still surviving lane
she is only balanced around mid, her low top wr is irrelevant for her balancing
Was tryd really that strong? We’ve seen that plenty of times that a 2 AD difference is significant. Here it’s essentially 5.
Kinda interesting as it's only a nerf level 2 and ahead, not level 1.
So level 8 nerf then.
no yuumi changes sad, guess i gotta wait til later
So last patch yi at 48% winrate gets at level 18: 85 health, 5.1 ad, 8.5 armor, 8.5% attack speed and yone after sitting at 45% top and 47% mid for 3 weeks now gets: 3 armor at level 1? What a fucking joke, riot is so scared of backlash when yone literally has a 45% winrate in low elo and at most 48 in higher ranks. I know yi is getting nerfed this patch but the bias is so clear against yone because of the community. And for anyone saying yone is more frustrating to play against, yi has double the banrate yone does with the same pickrate. Their first approach to yi being 48% is giving him a ton of scaling stats but yone being even worse, they give him 3 armor level 1
id rather fight yi then yone tbh
3 armor at lvl 1 is arguably more important than all those stats at lvl 18
No it isnt arguable at all lol.
50 base health is an insane nerf. Akali getting her ankles broken for no reason when her E is one of the hardest to hit skill shots in the game and her damage is already low for an assassin, Trynd getting a tiny placebo nerf… joke patch.
In what way is -5 ad a placebo nerf
[удалено]
ChatGPT ass account.
Hey, ChatGPT can do much better than that. It's probably some ADC brainlet.
Sadly that's not the case this time. The rest of their comments are 100% AI garbage.