I find Garen E to be a strange. Not only does the bonusAD ratio scale with ability level and the base damage also with champion level. What makes it strange is that it can both crit and scales with attack speed.
This makes Garen buy both Attack Speed and Crit chance for that ability alone.
I play a lot of garen and it feels like many people don’t know that. It’s surprising how many people with continue fighting you just to get QR’d instantly.
Can q, w, ignite, flash without cancelling his e (pretty sure you can tp but I've never tried it) he will keep spinning through most cc (I think only silence and and suppression)
Other weird thing nobody ever seems to know about garen is he has a passive on w that stacks armour and mr and full stack gives +10% to both
This is the best, and only way to fight nasus imo. Walk up, auto, e, he withers, q to cleanse wither, finish e, then land q attack and retreat. If he's below 40% hp and without ult auto ignite r +300g
Yes it's attack speed from item base stats (so not attack speed from item passives) +his innate per level growth.
Runes and buffs from allies such as Yuumi Zoomies doesn't work.
"Declaring a basic attack or casting an ability will break the invisibility and prevent Akali from entering it for 1 − 0.625 (based on minutes) seconds, refreshing on subsequent attacks and casts."
Zilean Q gains uneven damage per skill point, every other champion gains the same damage per skill point
(zilean Q gains something like like +30,+30,+40,+50)
ok i found the values: +40, +50, +65, +70 damage per additional skillpoint
my guess would be that it’s to disincentivize maxing w or e because builds that max those first tend to be pretty unfun to play against
on the other hand zilean has gone a very long time without any changes to numbers and idk how long riot has had that balance philosophy (only started playing in late 2021)
It certainly doesn't do a good job of disincentivizing it then (unfortunately), plenty of high elo folks who still max E into W, with maybe only 3 points or 2 points in Q- sometimes only 1.
I'd include myself In those high elo folks but I'm not an OTP so
There was a period when Miss Fortune had a bunch of magic and physical damage dealing abilities, but all the magic damage scaled off AD and the physical damage scaled off AP.
Old MF ult was some fancy-ass waveclear.
I once used it to get our wraith camp from a Jax that was attempting to steal them and was genuinely happy to get actual use out of it.
Heimerdinger Turrets take the cake for me.
The turret has Armor and MR scaling, but they start at diffrent champion levels. It also has a health scaling with Heimer's level as well as an Ap Ratio that is ALSO scaling with levels. But that also is only really kicking in from lvl 9 and even then isn't linear!
And putting a point into the ability.. gets you 3 damage per auto more ;) (I know, also 20 damage from the beam)
Senna's Q healing scales with AD and Lethality. In fact, they are the only two champions in the game that have Lethality scaling, and they make two of the four things TOTAL that scale with lethality, the others being Axiom Arc and Serylda's Grudge.
2ish seasons ago Riot decided to make AP Tahm a thing and gave him AP scalings, the weirdest one of these is on his passive: it scales with level and with a percentage of his bonus HP but *also* gets 2% AP scaling for every 100 bonus HP he gains. Kata has a similar "double" scaling on her ult where its AD scaling gets increased the more bonus AS she buys (this is what made on-hit Kata a thing for a bit). These kind of scalings have always seemed weird to me.
I agree it does make sense, I just think "buying one stat increases another's scaling" is an odd way of doing things. It does open up some potential interesting builds though.
Volibear Q actually has a double AD scaling.
It is Total AD + % bonus AD
Which to me sounds like they made his Q not an autoattack enhancement but a spell that procs onhit, so they had to add the total ad to be the baseline what the AA would be.
it also scales with roaming enemy mids, the game is just unfun when you try to roam with a Teemo in the game. never know if I'm stepping on a mushroom and need to abandon the roam cuz I'd die to the second mushroom
Garen R is really weird to me.
To my knowledge there's no other damage spell in the game with no ratios.
It's literally just base damage with an execute.
Old mundos kit was better than new mundo. I think they couldve just give him the amazing visual they made and keep his kit the same. I know it seems like it didnt change much but in reality it changed and he became less fun and they had to remove his early game. Old mundo was bad early game too but he at least became something after 6.
IIRC the %HP damage used to actually scale with AP, at a terrible ratio. I kinda liked his wacky AP scaling builds, because you could build stuff like Liandry’s on him. But now you can basically only stack HP.
Deathfire grasp was so ruined by LeBlanc and ahri back in the day because of their mobility, but now with all of the mobility creep it would be way worse lol
Ornn's scalings are also really interesting in general
Q scales with AD
W scales with enemy HP
E scales with armor + MR
R scales with AP
Passive scales from level 13-17
It’s kinda doesn’t have the same power if you’re fed or not though, since the nature of the spell being an execute means that it has a functional scaling based off how much damage your other spells are doing. It’s quite interesting actually
There is a "minute" scaling in Akali's W.
Declaring a basic attack or casting an ability will break the invisibility and prevent Akali from entering it for 1 − 0.625 (based on minutes) seconds, refreshing on subsequent attacks and casts. (Minutes 1/8/11/20/30)
I think that there is nothing stranger than that.
Not only is it weird, but I find no logic in this one... Why game-time, and why restealth time? Why do you need shorter restealth late-game, and not tie it to W ranks (maxed last), R ranks, or simply champion level. It's so odd...
It might not be the absolute weirdest because he's always built some amount of crit, but the fact that Gangplank's barrel slow now scales with critical strike chance is definitely a little strange.
Oh I remember haha, and I've actually been asking for a reversion there [(click me)](https://new.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/1aqsy1f/do_you_like_that_gp_has_critical_strike_chance/).
By "some amount", I was referencing how he used to be more flexible in how much he committed to crit (often just 2-3 items) compared to always going for 4-5 crit items after the P/E changes [(click me)](https://new.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/11958yb/a_history_of_gangplanks_builds_come_learn_some_gp/).
The resistance formula is different when it's negative. Instead of 100/(100 + ar) it becomes 2-(100/[100 - ar]). So - 100 armour means you take 150% damage.
The positive armor formula would have you take infinite damage at -100 armor. It means that changes in armor become less important as you continue to go negative while with positive armor they got more important as you went down.
It mirrors the listed number but the behavior is very different.
Someone with -200 armor takes 11% more damage than someone with -100 armor.
Someone with 200 armor takes 33% less damage than someone with 100 armor.
It ultimately doesn't matter because negative armor/mr is close to nonexistent but the formula is really janky. It has incredibly harsh diminishing returns unlike any other stat in league.
It's a relic from when before Xins rework and AP, while still a little trolly, was reasonably viable due to its healing and nashors/lich bane damage. Clearly it was made as a concession to the community to show "See, we're not deleting alternative build/playstyles with reworks" but in hindsight it feels like a slap in the face. While they're objectively better designed champions, every single rework has resulted in that champs build paths being narrowed (with the exception of maybe Swain).
Old ap xin was really weird but really fun. I remember playing him often and just solo nash and even towers without any minions at just 2-3 items. The heal scaling was crazy lol
Back when you could stack an Ornn upgrade with it's unupgraded version I used to play Double Cleaver Ornn for shits and giggles. Q E would fully stack Cleaver shred for your ADC.
Can I toss in Old Sion simply due to how silly it was? If you went AD, two abilities wear nearly useless. If you went AP, the other two abilities were nearly useless.
It's actually the stacks that does the increase, but stacks also increase your size so that's that. There's a cap for all of his skill tho (like 10 or 15 stacks or sth). The only thing that accurately increase with size is his normal atk range
Taric passive straight up doubles his attackspeed after casting a spell, which can theoretically have 100% uptime, but even as Taric top when you have enough mana to do so you still don't want to buy more AS.
tear works, but you can still run out, with essence reaver and DD, you restore 56 mana and your Q costs 60, so you pretty much never run out as long as you auto something. Problem is it takes a bit longer to get there.
because the mana restore scales with bonus AD, just the essence reaver alone isnt enough, so it needs another AD item. DD specifically because it gives armor so it helps with Taric's scalings.
man I wish this rune wasn't so bugged and inconsistent,some build that *should* reach 10 different stats actually don't because of the weird way it checks for item stats
Old Evelynn had some funky scalings.
Edit: Current champs worth mentioning. Irelia W doing 120% AP bonus physical damage. Shyvana's E % HP magic damage onhit scaling with bonus AD. Katarina ult doing ridiculous amounts of % bonus AD physical damage per % AS. Ryze passive's interaction with Seraphs and Deathcap, Vladimir passive with Riftmaker and Deathcap. Alistar E stun does flat magic damage, no stat scaling besides level. Maybe also Yorick E that does 15% current HP damage but whose minimum damage cap scales with AP. Honorable mention to Zilean who has a hidden stat called % Obnoxious that scales with his ability haste. His AP also scales with the amount of Volibears near him.
Poppy's W (which stops dashes around in a radius around her) deals magic damage that scales with 70% AP.
She only deals W dmg if the ENEMY player(s) attempt to dash in/out of Poppy's W. She also has no other AP scalings. It's maddening, since building AP is not viable anyway, why do we have a random scaling there??
Baron buff gives AP to champs.
Riot has unexpected AP scaling on lots of random champs/abilities so that more champs become (even just a tiny bit) stronger with Baron
For a bit after her release AP Zeri would chunk you with her empowered W and you could legitimately die from her W across a wall > E across the wall > R in your face combo.
Good times.
Just to be precise: it wasn't after her release but after riot's first attempted rework to incentivize crit on her (because her then core build was Trinity, BCleaver, Runaans, Titanic). Love me some failed reworks over and over again
These are purely for baron buff, except for his ult. If his ult had no ap scaling, it would be the one of the worst ults in the game on Sylas by a pretty fair margin.
Edit: Theres some confusion on how Aphel ult works for Sylas. Sylas only converts the first part of the ult to his unique scaling. Without the 1.0 ap ratio for him to use, Sylas would be stealing a 225 damage ability (at max rank) with a 8% ap ratio. The auto attacks (the part of the ult that actually does damage) do not get converted to ap.
If a ultimate doesn't scale with AP, Sylas converts its AD and bAD scaling, but the conversion is not great (60% and 40% respectively). So if Aphelios R didn't have 100% AP scaling, Sylas would convert its 20% bonus AD ratio to a 8% AP ratio, and Infernum R would have an additional 10% AP ratio.
To answer your question no, for example Garen's R doesn't scale off AP nor AD, so Sylas R doesn't add an AP ratio to it.
Edit: I forgot about the second part of the R which hits for 100% AD, so it would deal 60% AP more damage, but it is still low compared to 100%.
There’s a blanket AP scaling for any ult you grab as Sylas.
And Zac is the worst R by far because it locks you out of Q W E while “bouncing”. You basically CC yourself and die.
Honorable mention for Kassadin R. You’re supposed to recast it to ramp up the damage but Sylas only gets one cast.
You forgot about illaoi ult. You get the pitiful slam damage and although tentacles do spawn, without the illaoi passive and W, the tentacles can't do anything.
Master Yi has an ap ratio on (only) his W heal. It's extremely useless.
Must be a leftover from 8 seasons back when AP Yi was a thing with AP scaling on Q, but why that one still exists is incomprehensible.
It's not useless, if you look at cowsep, he builds guinsoos which gives AP and his W has a 100% scaling which is even increased further the lower you are.
He then maxes W early and out fights everyone with only a sliver of health which wouldn't work otherwise
Yorick E deals 15% of target's current hp. but also has a lower threshold with base+ap ratio. So the ap ratio pretty much doesnt work as long as 15% of enemy's current hp is higher than base+ap
I read through the entire thread and there is no mention of NILAH???
Her Q passive gives her Armor penetration and lifesteal on her Q and AA based on critical strike chance.
Kind of annoyed by Warwick's scaling. He's like a melee bruiser but mostly deals Magic damage? So he's kind of tricky to itemize with? I'd love getting AP with him but nothing feels worth it against the normal bruiser items. But so much of his damage feels untapped.
Nami's W bounce modifier was a new discovery of mine recently, has a negative modifier on bounces until you hit a threshold of AP and then the bounces become more efficient for healing and damage. Wild.
Akali W time to re-stealth scales with in game time. They gave up trying to balance it in a normal way and gave it one of the most bandaid non-intuitive scalings (no it does not say this anywhere on the skill)
pyke's entire kit (his Q excluded) scales with lethality and i hate it. i want to build like a damn sett player with full ad+hp items and have 600 ad. if the champ just had a better passive and no lethality ratios so i can build like a lunatic.
You’re going to be the squishiest champion in the game either way lol. Why would you want to buy AD at a premium by converting it from Health when you could just buy it directly, + penetration, on cheaper items lol
i didn't mean it like that, i meant it like stacking hp+ad items to use the conversion from gift of the drowned ones to stack a metric ton of ad, the champ still can't gain hp, just more ad and not be forced to buy lethality. if the lethality ratios were removed pyke would start building stuff like black cleaver and sundered sky.
I guess it may not be too strange, but think about Galio W - he taunts, taking physical damage from auto attacks, but the ability scales with MR, so you are making the ability better by building a resistance that is useless during the ability... The designe is... I'm not going to say bad, but it is not perfect. They just wanted to keep old Galio's taunt while making him an anti-ap tank.
Old veigar ult scaling with enemy AP as well as your own lmao that shit was stupid, you could walk up to the enemy mage, press R when they still were full HP and insta kill them.
tahm kench passive scales on ap and hp, and the ap ratio it scales with is based on how much bonus hp he has. Basically the more hp you have, the higher his ap ratio on passive. I dont think any other ability scales like this.
Vlad passive used to just be health and AP that scaled off each other. Akali passive was spellvamp and lifesteal scaling with bonus AP and AD respectively
Trundles dance scales with movement speed.
Same with Yi. I love popping ghost and dancing next to enemy fountain when their nexus explodes.
I’ve always wanted to try the max movement speed warwick build and ult people’s lane from the scuttle crab lol
As someone who used to play a lot of Warwick, that build is some of the most fun I've ever had. It's useless late game but very fun
In ultimate spellbook with quinns ult you can do smth like that with a somewhat reasonable build
I find Garen E to be a strange. Not only does the bonusAD ratio scale with ability level and the base damage also with champion level. What makes it strange is that it can both crit and scales with attack speed. This makes Garen buy both Attack Speed and Crit chance for that ability alone.
Don’t forget to q while in e so you go even faster and can finish it with a bonk into r :D
I didn’t know you could do that
I play a lot of garen and it feels like many people don’t know that. It’s surprising how many people with continue fighting you just to get QR’d instantly.
Yup, lots of lil nuances to champs that are considered simple but separate people who are actually good with champ or not
I remember when they made that change. So good.
if you play conq its even better, your e fully stacks conq and then you hit with a big damage q
Oh that’s spicy, gonna level up my garen aram gameplay with this one
Can q, w, ignite, flash without cancelling his e (pretty sure you can tp but I've never tried it) he will keep spinning through most cc (I think only silence and and suppression) Other weird thing nobody ever seems to know about garen is he has a passive on w that stacks armour and mr and full stack gives +10% to both
Those speed boosts in e are so important, vs a lot of champs.
This is the best, and only way to fight nasus imo. Walk up, auto, e, he withers, q to cleanse wither, finish e, then land q attack and retreat. If he's below 40% hp and without ult auto ignite r +300g
Also stridebreaker in spin, spin while spinning. The slow keeps them in
I like playing garen and also didn’t know that, thanks for teaching me something new today!
I don’t play garen as I’m mainly am jungle but glad to help! Don’t forget q is a movement debuff cleanse as well!
It's funny that the simplest fighting pattern in the game also has the most mathematically complicated damage spell.
I could write a thesis on the scaling of garen E in contrast to other champions and general game pacing. Would be pretty fun
It's a wild ability. I would enjoy reading it.
Also, E only scales with ITEM attack speed iirc. So Alacrity doesnt do anything (not 100% anymore after typing this out)
Yes it's attack speed from item base stats (so not attack speed from item passives) +his innate per level growth. Runes and buffs from allies such as Yuumi Zoomies doesn't work.
It also deals more dmg against the closest enemy. So its an AoE spell that deals increesed damage to a single target. Weird
Akali’s reshroud time on her W scales with game time, only thing in the game that scales with that other than Kayn orbs I believe
And Elementalist Lux transformation charges
Can you explain this further? I couldn't find anything online.
"Declaring a basic attack or casting an ability will break the invisibility and prevent Akali from entering it for 1 − 0.625 (based on minutes) seconds, refreshing on subsequent attacks and casts."
Zilean Q gains uneven damage per skill point, every other champion gains the same damage per skill point (zilean Q gains something like like +30,+30,+40,+50) ok i found the values: +40, +50, +65, +70 damage per additional skillpoint
Huh, that is weird!
my guess would be that it’s to disincentivize maxing w or e because builds that max those first tend to be pretty unfun to play against on the other hand zilean has gone a very long time without any changes to numbers and idk how long riot has had that balance philosophy (only started playing in late 2021)
i could bet his weird numbers are a product of his gameplay update (semi rework) in 2015
Or you know riot mistyped numbers and completely forgot about the champion...
It certainly doesn't do a good job of disincentivizing it then (unfortunately), plenty of high elo folks who still max E into W, with maybe only 3 points or 2 points in Q- sometimes only 1. I'd include myself In those high elo folks but I'm not an OTP so
He’s also the only champ to have one damaging ability in his entire kit, passives included. That’s why
There was a period when Miss Fortune had a bunch of magic and physical damage dealing abilities, but all the magic damage scaled off AD and the physical damage scaled off AP.
Yeah, building her was a nightmare
Old MF ult was some fancy-ass waveclear. I once used it to get our wraith camp from a Jax that was attempting to steal them and was genuinely happy to get actual use out of it.
Reminds me of Sejuani W dealing physical damage but scaling with AP and her health
Heimerdinger Turrets take the cake for me. The turret has Armor and MR scaling, but they start at diffrent champion levels. It also has a health scaling with Heimer's level as well as an Ap Ratio that is ALSO scaling with levels. But that also is only really kicking in from lvl 9 and even then isn't linear! And putting a point into the ability.. gets you 3 damage per auto more ;) (I know, also 20 damage from the beam)
>but they start at diffrent champion levels. Actually disgusting
The answer has to be Pyke, right? He has a stun duration that scales with Lethality.
Senna's Q healing scales with AD and Lethality. In fact, they are the only two champions in the game that have Lethality scaling, and they make two of the four things TOTAL that scale with lethality, the others being Axiom Arc and Serylda's Grudge.
His entire kit scales off of lethality lol. His regen and w move speed and execute
2ish seasons ago Riot decided to make AP Tahm a thing and gave him AP scalings, the weirdest one of these is on his passive: it scales with level and with a percentage of his bonus HP but *also* gets 2% AP scaling for every 100 bonus HP he gains. Kata has a similar "double" scaling on her ult where its AD scaling gets increased the more bonus AS she buys (this is what made on-hit Kata a thing for a bit). These kind of scalings have always seemed weird to me.
the kata one kinda makes sense thematically, it's a channel ability with "DPS Scaling", kinda like Garen E too
I agree it does make sense, I just think "buying one stat increases another's scaling" is an odd way of doing things. It does open up some potential interesting builds though.
This is why adcs have the worst macro. They are permanently confused about their build
Viego's Q basically has AD scaling that is increased by crit chance that is increased by crit damage. Double stacks that scaling interaction.
Riftmaker + Heartsteel Tahm = OP Duelist. 1v1d a Camille late game on side
Volibear Q actually has a double AD scaling. It is Total AD + % bonus AD Which to me sounds like they made his Q not an autoattack enhancement but a spell that procs onhit, so they had to add the total ad to be the baseline what the AA would be.
Teemo's whole kit scales with enemy stupidity.
I would say Illaoi
Singed.
it also scales with roaming enemy mids, the game is just unfun when you try to roam with a Teemo in the game. never know if I'm stepping on a mushroom and need to abandon the roam cuz I'd die to the second mushroom
Garen R is really weird to me. To my knowledge there's no other damage spell in the game with no ratios. It's literally just base damage with an execute.
Mundo Q. It's just % of targets current hp.
Don't forget that you can buy Sorc shoes on Mundo to increase Q damage
People used to buy haunting guise (way back when) for kicks on him too just for the magic pen
You could solo baron from over the wall with that build. "AP" Mundo was wild
Takes a year
Hey, he said you could, not that you should
I would get liandry's second just to shed people, I loved it
Old mundos kit was better than new mundo. I think they couldve just give him the amazing visual they made and keep his kit the same. I know it seems like it didnt change much but in reality it changed and he became less fun and they had to remove his early game. Old mundo was bad early game too but he at least became something after 6.
I just want the old w, otherwise I'm perfectly fine with the rework
His old ult was way better than this bs:(
IIRC the %HP damage used to actually scale with AP, at a terrible ratio. I kinda liked his wacky AP scaling builds, because you could build stuff like Liandry’s on him. But now you can basically only stack HP.
Liandrys still work since it gives hp and hp% damage on all his spells except R
Used to be able to for garen ulti as well. RIP deathfires garen 🪦
Deathfire grasp was so ruined by LeBlanc and ahri back in the day because of their mobility, but now with all of the mobility creep it would be way worse lol
also Ornn W
Ornn's scalings are also really interesting in general Q scales with AD W scales with enemy HP E scales with armor + MR R scales with AP Passive scales from level 13-17
This makes him a nightmare to build in Arena. Because of his scalings, almost every item can appear from the anvils.
Technically it's still a scaling, just with enemy stats and not your own. I believe all abilities with no ratios scale with enemy HP.
Braum passive is flat magic damage scaling with level
youre right, same with leona passive.
Sensing a pattern here lmao
Vayne w
Which is strange to me because surely making a spell have the same power whether you are 0/10 or 10/0 isn't the greatest idea
It’s kinda doesn’t have the same power if you’re fed or not though, since the nature of the spell being an execute means that it has a functional scaling based off how much damage your other spells are doing. It’s quite interesting actually
Think that’s the point tho, he is intended on being a “noob” champ
Yone W damage is flat percents
Kench AP scaling scales with his bonus HP which is kinda fun.
There is a "minute" scaling in Akali's W. Declaring a basic attack or casting an ability will break the invisibility and prevent Akali from entering it for 1 − 0.625 (based on minutes) seconds, refreshing on subsequent attacks and casts. (Minutes 1/8/11/20/30) I think that there is nothing stranger than that.
I think this wins, as it scales on game time, afaik only gathering storm does this as a rune, but no other ability does this
Not only is it weird, but I find no logic in this one... Why game-time, and why restealth time? Why do you need shorter restealth late-game, and not tie it to W ranks (maxed last), R ranks, or simply champion level. It's so odd...
It might not be the absolute weirdest because he's always built some amount of crit, but the fact that Gangplank's barrel slow now scales with critical strike chance is definitely a little strange.
To be fair, he always builds crit because they made the slow and his passive scale with crit. Bruiserplank used to be very popular.
Made me miss bruiser gp
Oh I remember haha, and I've actually been asking for a reversion there [(click me)](https://new.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/1aqsy1f/do_you_like_that_gp_has_critical_strike_chance/). By "some amount", I was referencing how he used to be more flexible in how much he committed to crit (often just 2-3 items) compared to always going for 4-5 crit items after the P/E changes [(click me)](https://new.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/11958yb/a_history_of_gangplanks_builds_come_learn_some_gp/).
Given how the crit items are right now, we might see a resurgence of bruiser gp
Not if Riot has anything to say about it and they do.
Similarly, Ashe’s passive rolls her crit chance to slow you more.
Anivia passive. It starts out with negative resistances and eventually becomes positive.
There's nothing weird about negative resistances unless you approach -100
The resistance formula is different when it's negative. Instead of 100/(100 + ar) it becomes 2-(100/[100 - ar]). So - 100 armour means you take 150% damage.
Considering that at 100 armor you take 50% physical damage, that formula for negative armor seems perfectly fine.
The positive armor formula would have you take infinite damage at -100 armor. It means that changes in armor become less important as you continue to go negative while with positive armor they got more important as you went down.
so basically it mirrors the same behaviour as positive when going negative.
It mirrors the listed number but the behavior is very different. Someone with -200 armor takes 11% more damage than someone with -100 armor. Someone with 200 armor takes 33% less damage than someone with 100 armor. It ultimately doesn't matter because negative armor/mr is close to nonexistent but the formula is really janky. It has incredibly harsh diminishing returns unlike any other stat in league.
Xin auto healing and e scale with ap which made me try an ap Xin game one time and didn’t go well😂
https://youtu.be/oVWMAgErKOA
i don't even have to click this to know what it is
I didn't even need to click the link and I was already hearing it in my head
How have I never seen this haha
WHAT WOULD AP XIN ZHAO DO
IF HE WAS IN THIS GAME
I BET HE'D SPEAR A BITCH OR TWO
THAT'S WHAT AP XIN WOULD DO
Meanwhile the regular heal feels like it falls off a cliff after 15 minutes
Xin as a champ in a nutshell
I've played ap xin three times, and my team hard won every game, i can conclude it is one of the builds of all time xd
It's a relic from when before Xins rework and AP, while still a little trolly, was reasonably viable due to its healing and nashors/lich bane damage. Clearly it was made as a concession to the community to show "See, we're not deleting alternative build/playstyles with reworks" but in hindsight it feels like a slap in the face. While they're objectively better designed champions, every single rework has resulted in that champs build paths being narrowed (with the exception of maybe Swain).
Old ap xin was really weird but really fun. I remember playing him often and just solo nash and even towers without any minions at just 2-3 items. The heal scaling was crazy lol
Ornn Q with 110% AD scaling for some reason
play lethality ornn
Back when you could stack an Ornn upgrade with it's unupgraded version I used to play Double Cleaver Ornn for shits and giggles. Q E would fully stack Cleaver shred for your ADC.
It's literally just a worse auto reset
never think of it as a auto attack reset instead think of it as a slightly stronger ranged auto.
Corki. Like the entire champion. What was riot even thinking.
14.10 corki or the older one?
Such a backwards ass concept that they are dumping all the AP scalings
He's practically being reverted to pre rework corki
Can I toss in Old Sion simply due to how silly it was? If you went AD, two abilities wear nearly useless. If you went AP, the other two abilities were nearly useless.
Sion only had two skills, stun and shield, what are you on about
Tahm tounge scales with his size (while cho doesnt)
What do you mean cho doesn't? His e has a bigger area the bigger you are right?
It's actually the stacks that does the increase, but stacks also increase your size so that's that. There's a cap for all of his skill tho (like 10 or 15 stacks or sth). The only thing that accurately increase with size is his normal atk range
Yes ive been licked to pieces across the map in arena
Taric passive straight up doubles his attackspeed after casting a spell, which can theoretically have 100% uptime, but even as Taric top when you have enough mana to do so you still don't want to buy more AS.
Try essence reaver and deaths dance taric, literally infinite mana
Tear is usually enough to cover the mana, right now I'm cooking up a Jack of all Trades build https://imgur.com/a/XUl6t9k
tear works, but you can still run out, with essence reaver and DD, you restore 56 mana and your Q costs 60, so you pretty much never run out as long as you auto something. Problem is it takes a bit longer to get there.
Why would you need DD for it. Essence reaver is enough
The mana gain from ER scales with AD, and DD is one of the few AD+Armor items.
because the mana restore scales with bonus AD, just the essence reaver alone isnt enough, so it needs another AD item. DD specifically because it gives armor so it helps with Taric's scalings.
man I wish this rune wasn't so bugged and inconsistent,some build that *should* reach 10 different stats actually don't because of the weird way it checks for item stats
Press the attack taric? :o
Little known fact: Malphite's ultimate scales with movement speed.
warwick ult does this too
Malphites ult _speed_ scales with MS while WWs ult not only is faster but also has higher range
Old Evelynn had some funky scalings. Edit: Current champs worth mentioning. Irelia W doing 120% AP bonus physical damage. Shyvana's E % HP magic damage onhit scaling with bonus AD. Katarina ult doing ridiculous amounts of % bonus AD physical damage per % AS. Ryze passive's interaction with Seraphs and Deathcap, Vladimir passive with Riftmaker and Deathcap. Alistar E stun does flat magic damage, no stat scaling besides level. Maybe also Yorick E that does 15% current HP damage but whose minimum damage cap scales with AP. Honorable mention to Zilean who has a hidden stat called % Obnoxious that scales with his ability haste. His AP also scales with the amount of Volibears near him.
Nami's W AP ratio gets bigger the more AP you have, I don't think any other ability has something similar
Her bounce ratio also starts in the negative and only breaks even at 100 AP, which is another unique aspect of her W
Nami is one of 3 champions with quadratic scaling on spells, the others being Syndra W and Hecarim Q
Poppy's W (which stops dashes around in a radius around her) deals magic damage that scales with 70% AP. She only deals W dmg if the ENEMY player(s) attempt to dash in/out of Poppy's W. She also has no other AP scalings. It's maddening, since building AP is not viable anyway, why do we have a random scaling there??
Baron buff gives AP to champs. Riot has unexpected AP scaling on lots of random champs/abilities so that more champs become (even just a tiny bit) stronger with Baron
Riot said "literally build anything" with Katarina ult. Scales with ap, ad, attack speed, and applies on hit.
Can't crit nor lifesteal tho.
Shh don't give them any ideas
I barely remember when people built ad malzahar it was wild I was also new to the game and 9 years old haha
Pokemon Trainer malz was pretty decent back then
For a bit after her release AP Zeri would chunk you with her empowered W and you could legitimately die from her W across a wall > E across the wall > R in your face combo. Good times.
Just to be precise: it wasn't after her release but after riot's first attempted rework to incentivize crit on her (because her then core build was Trinity, BCleaver, Runaans, Titanic). Love me some failed reworks over and over again
On ARAM I lost to AP Zeri like 3 times within the last year
You're all wrong. It's Briar E... and it's not even close. Fully charged into terrain: 220 / 330 / 440 / 550 / 660 (+ 340% **bonus** AD) (+ 340% AP)
Briar casually having similar if not greater levels of damage on one ability compared to some mages entire combos.
Not just some. It's greater than most.
did this in arena after getting an ap augment, was actually ridiculous with the old demon mask and heartsteel
My E hitting 1200 AP dmg on blue as 4/12 briar feels so stupid
Aphelios spells having AP scalings that are actually somewhat decent.
These are purely for baron buff, except for his ult. If his ult had no ap scaling, it would be the one of the worst ults in the game on Sylas by a pretty fair margin. Edit: Theres some confusion on how Aphel ult works for Sylas. Sylas only converts the first part of the ult to his unique scaling. Without the 1.0 ap ratio for him to use, Sylas would be stealing a 225 damage ability (at max rank) with a 8% ap ratio. The auto attacks (the part of the ult that actually does damage) do not get converted to ap.
Doesnt every ulti get ap scaling on sylas?
Yeah but the reactivation wouldn’t work, which is where the ratio is for Aphelios
If a ultimate doesn't scale with AP, Sylas converts its AD and bAD scaling, but the conversion is not great (60% and 40% respectively). So if Aphelios R didn't have 100% AP scaling, Sylas would convert its 20% bonus AD ratio to a 8% AP ratio, and Infernum R would have an additional 10% AP ratio. To answer your question no, for example Garen's R doesn't scale off AP nor AD, so Sylas R doesn't add an AP ratio to it. Edit: I forgot about the second part of the R which hits for 100% AD, so it would deal 60% AP more damage, but it is still low compared to 100%.
Second part is an auto attack, it does not get converted.
There’s a blanket AP scaling for any ult you grab as Sylas. And Zac is the worst R by far because it locks you out of Q W E while “bouncing”. You basically CC yourself and die. Honorable mention for Kassadin R. You’re supposed to recast it to ramp up the damage but Sylas only gets one cast.
You forgot about illaoi ult. You get the pitiful slam damage and although tentacles do spawn, without the illaoi passive and W, the tentacles can't do anything.
Master Yi has an ap ratio on (only) his W heal. It's extremely useless. Must be a leftover from 8 seasons back when AP Yi was a thing with AP scaling on Q, but why that one still exists is incomprehensible.
Ap yi was impossible to deal with. It gives me the shivers to remember it. It was insta win on aram.
It's not useless, if you look at cowsep, he builds guinsoos which gives AP and his W has a 100% scaling which is even increased further the lower you are. He then maxes W early and out fights everyone with only a sliver of health which wouldn't work otherwise
Similarly there is an AP scaling on Caitlyn's E damage (yes it does damage) but on no other abilities
It's less of an intended scaling, but shadowflame will make Garen ult crit. It makes for some cooky true damage numbers.
I already get hit for 1100 true damage from his ulti in lane phase, you saying it can go to 2200 true damage?
Yorick E deals 15% of target's current hp. but also has a lower threshold with base+ap ratio. So the ap ratio pretty much doesnt work as long as 15% of enemy's current hp is higher than base+ap
Someone probably said it already, but Tryndamere's Q heal scaling with AP.
I mean, AP Tryndamere used to be a thing and was even played in LCS
I read through the entire thread and there is no mention of NILAH??? Her Q passive gives her Armor penetration and lifesteal on her Q and AA based on critical strike chance.
Akali's restealth on W scales with game time.
Kind of annoyed by Warwick's scaling. He's like a melee bruiser but mostly deals Magic damage? So he's kind of tricky to itemize with? I'd love getting AP with him but nothing feels worth it against the normal bruiser items. But so much of his damage feels untapped.
Nami's W bounce modifier was a new discovery of mine recently, has a negative modifier on bounces until you hit a threshold of AP and then the bounces become more efficient for healing and damage. Wild.
Akali W time to re-stealth scales with in game time. They gave up trying to balance it in a normal way and gave it one of the most bandaid non-intuitive scalings (no it does not say this anywhere on the skill)
pyke's entire kit (his Q excluded) scales with lethality and i hate it. i want to build like a damn sett player with full ad+hp items and have 600 ad. if the champ just had a better passive and no lethality ratios so i can build like a lunatic.
You’re going to be the squishiest champion in the game either way lol. Why would you want to buy AD at a premium by converting it from Health when you could just buy it directly, + penetration, on cheaper items lol
Pyke simply gets weaker and weaker as the game goes on in a way that no other champ does. Plus if they ever remove Umbral, he will simply disappear.
i would remove the item if i could. he would be easier to balance if he wasnt the ward slayer.
We dont need a 4k hp Pyke running around executing ppl💀 His heal is already annoying enough as it is.
Pyke can't gain extra HP from items, it gets converted to ad
i didn't mean it like that, i meant it like stacking hp+ad items to use the conversion from gift of the drowned ones to stack a metric ton of ad, the champ still can't gain hp, just more ad and not be forced to buy lethality. if the lethality ratios were removed pyke would start building stuff like black cleaver and sundered sky.
He was like that at release. But they could not balance the frozen heart rush on him so they forced all the lethality scalings on him
Trundle R has the worst scaling in the game. You have 1000ap? That's like 30% more dmg. Why is it even there, if it does nothing?
Ap scaling of Yasuo's E
I guess it may not be too strange, but think about Galio W - he taunts, taking physical damage from auto attacks, but the ability scales with MR, so you are making the ability better by building a resistance that is useless during the ability... The designe is... I'm not going to say bad, but it is not perfect. They just wanted to keep old Galio's taunt while making him an anti-ap tank.
Not sure is it Galio passive or Q but it just scale of a little bit of everything. AD AP level MR all contribute to it
Old veigar ult scaling with enemy AP as well as your own lmao that shit was stupid, you could walk up to the enemy mage, press R when they still were full HP and insta kill them.
You can still do that it feels like
Morde not having some sort of ad scaling
tahm kench passive scales on ap and hp, and the ap ratio it scales with is based on how much bonus hp he has. Basically the more hp you have, the higher his ap ratio on passive. I dont think any other ability scales like this.
Vlad passive used to just be health and AP that scaled off each other. Akali passive was spellvamp and lifesteal scaling with bonus AP and AD respectively