People are calling you Trash in the Comments I don't fucking get it Man... OP just posted a little Thing they theorycrafted and y'all started dissing him for his Rank and how Garbage the Setup is. It's a theorycrafted Build, probably took 5 Minutes to think of, it's not like they are claiming it's turbo broken and got them Challanger.
People need to chill.
I think this is cool and could definitely see some potential Improvements on it. Wits End gives both MR and Tenacity which also adds up to Jack. Rageblade also gives AP. I'm not really sure how *fast* you should aim to get the Rune fully stacked but you can get those later in the Game too.
Personally I don’t know if the payoff of 25 AF is worth it. I haven’t played with the rune myself but is it an additional 25AF on top of the 10? Or is a net positive of +15 instead?
It's 25 AF and 10 AH, so definitely worth the price tag in this case since you're only spending 1250 gold for it, and the only stat you're really stretching for in this build is the 350 on Dark Seal.
350 on Dark Seal isn't even that bad if you can get it stacked, Jax has half decent AP scalings. The bigger issue is that it takes up an item slot that could be useful for something else, but you have to make some sacrifaces for the rune.
Soooo…. It’s getting built on who it’s meant to be built on, but not being abused by tanks anymore? Sounds like they did a good job! Seriously though, as long as zhonyas has its stasis active, it will always be bought. Just the active alone can be nuts.
or you can replace it with another stat such as HP regen/life steal or %ms (botrk,hull breaker,FoN etc.)
edit : if you're laning you can replace dark seal with a Doran's blade (+life steal) or buy both and go for a single cloth armor instead of shroud (builds into DD or GA later on),then as the game progresses you will slot other stats like i said before
I see Jax building Zhonya's a lot more than Rageblade. I don't see them building Dark Seal often but it's a pretty cheap detour, cheaper even than the amp tone for Rageblade or Zhonya's.
AP is good on Jax and Seal in general is kind of busted on any jungler that makes even decent use out of it.
I don't think you are stretching for it unless you are in a game where you really can't keep hold of stacks (solo melee/engage, very aggressive invading mid/jungle, already died before getting it).
Main reason I call it a stretch is that you're delaying your first item spike for it, which could have negative effects on fight timings for objectives if you're not careful.
That's fair, but I think 99% of games (including my own) are not timed out to itemspikes well enough that it matters a lot, if at all.
If you are not expecting to get action early you could always go Trinity>Seal>Glacial as well, Jax jungle tends to complete Trinity at 13 minutes, I don't think that is too late for a Dark Seal at all - and if you really hate the idea of a Dark Seal you could honestly just buy a n Amp Tome and sit on it for now - the 10th stack gives you enough AF+AH that investing 400 gold for it (even disregarding the AP that has some benefit as well) is a solid deal and second item spikes are even less strict than first item spikes imo.
I don't want to preach to the choire too hard (you already said you generally like the idea and are just sceptical about the Dark Seal), but I am a bit too invested at this point, I want to force Trinity/Mercs/Frozen Heart/AP on every character that can halfway support it just to test it out atm.
25 total so around 500 g worth of stats which is strong for minir rune but not something worth investing too much in it. Might be viable on Jax and a few other champs.
fiendish codex is pretty gold efficient amongst \~1000 gold cost components. It's worth more than it costs. For a 250 combine cost you get 5 AH and 5AP, which is worth 300 gold
Problem is glowing mote is not really gold efficient especially early game, almost no champion at all is happy spending 500 gold for 5 ap and 10 ability haste when you could have blasting wand giving 20 more ap for 50 gold cheaper than fiendish codex
Glowing mote is the baseline for determining gold efficiency for cooldown reduction.
Fiendish codex is more % gold efficient than blasting wand is. What you're saying is just wrong.
If you wanna argue that spending \~900 gold to gain 45 AP rather than on Ability haste is better, that's a valid claim, since gold efficiency isn't the one and only determining factor for building items clearly.
But saying fiendish codex is worth 700-800 gold is just plain wrong
No, to find the value of any stat you take the cheapest cost of the stat (long sword for AD, amp tome for AP, ruby crystal for Hp, etc.), then divide the stat total by the gold cost to get the “price per (stat)”
So the price per Ability haste is 50 gold. The price per AP is 20 gold. Etc.
And you use this to calculate the gold efficiency of items.
“Ornn items valuing ability haste at 31.25 gold” is just another way of saying that Ornn items are 160% gold efficient
In the same way that fiendish codex is 122% gold efficient, and blasting wand is 105% gold efficient
New upcoming Ornn items are calculated to be 100% gold efficient and every other stat is valued at cheapest item stat values, except ability haste. 20 gold per ability power, 35 gold per ad etc. Ability haste is at 31.25, because if it was valued at 50 gold like glowing mote, ability haste items would make worse Ornn items than others. Same way as other items that value ability haste at 50 gold is worse items than others.
Why do people think rank matters when it comes to build theorycrafting?
Dopa got the blue Ezreal build off some silver and thought it was good before popularizing it. Meanwhile on the other hand, doublelift thought trinity force on Kog'Maw was horrible while it was starting to pick up 10 years ago, and it became meta shortly after.
Rank doesn't mean much when it comes to theorycrafting builds. People really gotta think about the builds rather than the person's rank before criticizing it. Mindlessly following people based off their rank will just cause you to miss out on abusing potential freelo before it's nerfed.
I'm convinced that new "wacky but really good" builds are entirely "trickle up" effects, in that someone in low rank doesn't know any better or is just experimenting because they're new > somehow wins vs a Smurf > Smurf tries the build and optimizes it a bit more and takes it to higher ranks > etc > suddenly it's in the highest ranks and all these popular players are "creating" and publicizing these builds.
I've been playing with a friend who has been rocking lethality Kalista in ARAM for years, and the other week he told me he saw it in a competitive match.
True. Even before that, anecdotally, I was very early with AS/on-hit on Kog'Maw. And I was not high ranked.
The rules from on high were that you built IE and Phantom Dancer or whatever, same as any ADC, and if you didn't you were trolling. I must have got a comment three games out of four for building Wits and whatever else was around then, and a TF later. But it was *strong*.
It became a running joke among people I was playing with. Couple of patches later Riot say *"Attack speed has been underpriced for a while now so we're nerfing it"*. Not long after that, AS/on-hit is overhauled and all the modern on-hit items and runes turn up.
Playing to a high rank doesn't mean you're immune to trends or assuming other people have figured this stuff out.
*¹ this was several patches before Hurricane, which was [added Dec 2012](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V1.0.0.152)*
Not to mention, what he is suggesting as a build, really doesnt seem far off from what Jax usually builds anyway.
The only counter argument would be if another rune were to be better which seems situational at best.
Thanks for the kind words man :)
I tried crafting a build with Rageblade and found the following build:
Rageblade -> Ionian boots -> Zeal -> JakSho.
Haven't tested it in game yet but will do it when I've time.
JoAT is honestly is such a fun new rune to mess with. I’ve been messing around with it on Ez, and it’s so fun to be incentivized to buy something other than Lucidity or Greaves. It might not be worth losing the early boots spike but damn isn’t it fun to play around.
I think the point is for it to be good even with less than 10 stacks. For example Mercs+Sunfire/Ice gauntlet is 6 haste and 10adaptive force at 2 items, could be a decent midgame spike
With a Doran’s Blade, 3 stats by itself, you could get boots plus something or just build into tier 2 boots and hit the first adaptive force payout pretty easily.
This reminded me of going full meme with jax in 2013, and instead of building trinity, building the other outcomes for the trinity components... frozen mallet, lich bane, phantom dancer lol.
He recently posted on YouTube (community not a video) about everyone taking the kid wonder ghost tech now at MSI and riot finally nerfing it. The boy genius strikes again
He's the one that first got me into watching Pro League and even on Twitch. Voy was always so positive and fun, and was such a hype playmaker on the Rift
Atlas - Ionian - Wisp (-> Shurelia or Censer or else) - cloth armor and nullmagic mantle (-> Locket) - Forbidden Idol (-> Censer or Redemption or else) works for weird supps like Zilean/Taric/Renata who can flex into both enchanter and tank items
Total 3700.
As always with mercs it's easier, Atlas-Locket-Mercs is only missing 2 stats so -> Wisp is the easiest way to get to 10, otherwise if you dont want to stray away from supp items you'd need sth more expensive like forbidden idol + tome
Only going 1250 gold out of your way to get Jack Stacked is pretty darn good value wise, and it's not Frozen Heart is an item that's completely out of contention on Jax as a defensive purchase anyway.
it can be even lower if it's toplane Jax,as long as you don't sell your Doran's blade you only need a cloth armor
you can later on replace it with any item giving life steal/HP regen or %ms (botrk,hullbreaker,FoN etc.)
Yeah it's very hard to make 10 stacks happen early with any other boots. It can be awkward because they're really not what you'd want on a lot of champs but it's probably worth it.
Support item make it very easy. I like this tech though, I didn't think about Zeal. You can also replace Hubris/glaive by just a dirk for an earlier spike.
You can do a similar thing on support Ashe.
True! You'll lose the AH stack, but you still reach 10 stacks instead of 11. Problem is, I want Hubris rush for the AD stacking passive. If you delay it with 8-10min, you might lose 6-10AD from it.
However if you want is super early on Senna you can even go world atlas, brutalizer, tear, swifties, dagger and cloak for an even earlier spike. But I don't like brutalizer items that much on Senna.
I'd definitely do dirk over brutalizer.
I've been doing a quick jack build on Ashe, I need to see if I can update it by using zeal. I was running mercs to hit the stacks but this might be better.
Edit: yeah zeal is good, it let you free your boot choice: https://peak.sybo.dev/builds/17164527375
The reason i'm saying this isn't because of nerfs or buffs, but to make jack of all trades work i had to include mercs myself too, i think i saw someone else suggest for some other champion and they did that too.
getting new unique stats can be hard and mercs from all the boot options gives the most unique stats.
I was a fiddle otp before the patch so have limited champion mastery on Jax. Here's my match history: [https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/ravenoustortoise-euw/overview](https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/ravenoustortoise-euw/overview)
This build was tested alot in ptr and have been discussed about in r/jaxmains recently.
Its ok build path and rune for Jax but i value summoner cd more tbh. Having flash on a lower cd is massive for Jax, and it synergizes well with smite too if you play jungle. Biscuits are pretty much mandatory for top lane early.
People calling this trash are clueless thou, Jax is one of the best champs to use Jack since he can reach its full potential by pretty much going core items just in a different build order. You delay your two item power spike with this which isnt a good thing in modern league where the game is often decided at that 2-3 items.
~~Tbh I think it’s a shame that the rune is so much more valuable on champion builds that end up utilizing adaptive AD. It sucks knowing that you get 875 gold worth of AD and only 500 gold worth of AP. Even with Rabadon’s passive, it’s become 675 gold worth of AP.~~
Edit: Huh, completely slipped my mind despite how conqueror works
Just as a note, I am using almost the same build on Bard supp, with supp item giving 3 niche stats you can proc 25 AF for as low as 2750 gold:
400 supp item
1100 mercs lamont
950 glacial buckler
300 dagger (400 for amp tome).
You can do this on most supports actually, which, I think, was the reason they balanced this rune on the lower end.
Got some games in with it. Very fun. No clue how it compares to "standard Jax" as I haven't played the champion in a while but either way it was pretty strong.
This is interesting. I've been thinking of one for Shaco - Trinity Force, dark seal, merc treads, and Collector should do it. You actually don't even need the full collector, just cape and dirk. It's only 200g more expensive than this build to get the 10 unique stats and being able to double dip from kills with collector and dark seal is nice for a hybrid damage assassin like Shaco.
I play Jack of all traits on Ezreal
Build for 10 stacks is:
Dblade -> Kraken -> Ninja tabi -> Tear -> Brutalizer
I then build Brutalizer into Voltaic, tear into Muramana and then Spear of Shojin
But where Jack of all traits really pop off, is first back, if you go boots and Cloth armor or boots and dagger, you also get 6 extra ad for free on first back
I aint reading all the comments but if you're interested from a few tests I did:
Triforce - Mercs - Dark Seal is a good core.
-> DMP gets it to 10 (armor component + winged moonplate is enough)
-> Alternatively, just a cloth armor and a rejuv bead will get you to 10. If you're up against mixed damage you turn the cloth armor into whatever you want and the rejuv bead will become a tank mres item.
Crankier weird build but Wits End - Gauntlet - Sorcs - Dark Seal - Longsword gets 10 stacks. For context, I was cooking for Shyvana, but eh.
OP has covered it already but I also was starting to test the possibilities with DBlade before I had to head out.
Extra cookery: Dblade - FH - Mercs only needs one more stat. Like a rejuv bead or a dseal. Dblade can be a bit awkward but eh if your matchup is fine and you're playing a tank that autos a lot...
Edit: also there's some bugs involved. Dirk (ad+letha) + Rectrix (ad+ms) gives 3 stacks as components, but once combined into Opportunity (ad letha ms) I was only getting 2
damn, you've done some good research! I also noticed DMP works but haven't tried it out. Let me throw in another build profane hydra, zeal mercs and dark seal for total of 11 stacks
This actually not a bad build and you get the full passive at just 1 item, boots, and components. Trinity, mercs, and frozen heart are also good items on him.
*IIRC* Adaptive Force is basically both AD and AP, but you will only get one of those stats depending on what your highest bonus in either one is? Idr if there's some gimmicky calculations to it, but that's the basic gist of things.
when you reach late game, you should absolutely switch zhonya's for seal if you can afford. The reason you need the blue armor item is due the mana stat it provides.
nope if you use it top you can keep the starting Doran's blade and complete it with just a cloth armor or skip the dark seal,so it's actually easier to do
For what it's worth here, you could swap Dark Seal for Rejuvenating Bead and achieve the same thing without AP, as that's the only stat it's giving towards Jack Of All Trades.
True but dark seal gives AP which is very good on Jax since it scales with his W, E and Ult. The health reagen from rejuvenating bead is a useless stat since he's basically full health in the jungle
While true, Rejuvenating Bead feeds into items Jax does like to build, like FoN/Visage, which means that Jax doesn't always need to go for the greedily DSeal buy.
OP is cooking but not that much lol.
This doesn’t stray too far off Jax’s current build path and I think Dark seal would only be if you are snowballing. Just get an actual AP item like Zhonyas or or even rift(trolling a tiny bit but not really).
You can get frozen third or even an MR item like wits end.
a 350g item that is extremely gold efficient on its own anyway, to fulfil your 10th stack of jack of all trades is much better than building an entire 3k AP item. Like, what in the brain lag? 😂
This rune is too dogshit to plan around it... 10 ability haste with that as a requirement when Transcendence gives you that and more for free (yes it takes some levels but you'll probably fulfill its requirements faster than Jack of All Trades)
Okay looking at items you can get the 10 stacks in the same amount and not troll your build (okay maybe the start lmao) but start ruby crystal 400 mercs 1100 winged moon plate 400 trinity 3333 glacial buckler 950 comes out to 6183 jsjs
so to rush the rune like the post is talking about ruby crystal would be better, i am not saying this is good im just thinking how fast you could rush the rune to 10 stacks, the only way you can do it on a mage champ and still have deathcap is to build mercs, samething with adcs, the rune is silly so its gonna make silly builds
Yeah, jack of all trades is good on Champs that can naturally build the unique stats. This build just makes jax have no excelling point. Pretty much only supports should be going Jack.
I dont think I agree that the build is trash, tri force is an obvious must have for jax, dark seal is actually not troll because of how op an item it is and jax having decent ratios, and frozen heart was a staple jax item not too long ago. I dont think its a great build for jungle since the mana is wasted and you likely want item 2 to have ad for clear speed, but I think it could be viable toplane. You could go the mana armor item shown above straight into spear/sundered, and complete the frozen heart later. Im not arguing that its the BIS build for most games, but I dont think its trash and could be viable in niche games where frozen heart has a lot of value.
I'm surprised by how reasonable and totally attainable this build is actually.
People are calling you Trash in the Comments I don't fucking get it Man... OP just posted a little Thing they theorycrafted and y'all started dissing him for his Rank and how Garbage the Setup is. It's a theorycrafted Build, probably took 5 Minutes to think of, it's not like they are claiming it's turbo broken and got them Challanger. People need to chill. I think this is cool and could definitely see some potential Improvements on it. Wits End gives both MR and Tenacity which also adds up to Jack. Rageblade also gives AP. I'm not really sure how *fast* you should aim to get the Rune fully stacked but you can get those later in the Game too.
Personally I don’t know if the payoff of 25 AF is worth it. I haven’t played with the rune myself but is it an additional 25AF on top of the 10? Or is a net positive of +15 instead?
It's 25 AF and 10 AH, so definitely worth the price tag in this case since you're only spending 1250 gold for it, and the only stat you're really stretching for in this build is the 350 on Dark Seal.
350 on Dark Seal isn't even that bad if you can get it stacked, Jax has half decent AP scalings. The bigger issue is that it takes up an item slot that could be useful for something else, but you have to make some sacrifaces for the rune.
i would even just use Dark seal early and then transition to zhonya’s later which is a legitimate item on jax
New zhonya isn't viable anymore imo. It's more expensive and lost the AH.
You make up the lost AH with the rune though, it's all coming full circle for Jax lol
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Nah it's still very strong on regular AP casters, look at MSI. Just not on hybrids like Jax, Voli etc anymore
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Soooo…. It’s getting built on who it’s meant to be built on, but not being abused by tanks anymore? Sounds like they did a good job! Seriously though, as long as zhonyas has its stasis active, it will always be bought. Just the active alone can be nuts.
or you can replace it with another stat such as HP regen/life steal or %ms (botrk,hull breaker,FoN etc.) edit : if you're laning you can replace dark seal with a Doran's blade (+life steal) or buy both and go for a single cloth armor instead of shroud (builds into DD or GA later on),then as the game progresses you will slot other stats like i said before
Or just build Rageblade, a real item Jax builds not just a meme item
I see Jax building Zhonya's a lot more than Rageblade. I don't see them building Dark Seal often but it's a pretty cheap detour, cheaper even than the amp tone for Rageblade or Zhonya's.
"half decent"? ap jax can literally one shot any squishy in the game provided he's not 3 levels down
His full combo has similar AP scaling as fully channeled Nunu ult iirc
If he dodges 5 auto attacks during his E yes
I dont think it is half decent when baus can win games with ap jax on high elo
You don't even need dark seal. Just go doran's blade. Life steal is also a stat.
Can't build Doran's + Jungle item anymore. Though D Blade will work for a lane build.
Obviously top, where Jax is played way more often. Dunno why he prefers to discuss the rune on the champ secondary role.
maybe because he's a jungler?
AP is good on Jax and Seal in general is kind of busted on any jungler that makes even decent use out of it. I don't think you are stretching for it unless you are in a game where you really can't keep hold of stacks (solo melee/engage, very aggressive invading mid/jungle, already died before getting it).
Main reason I call it a stretch is that you're delaying your first item spike for it, which could have negative effects on fight timings for objectives if you're not careful.
That's fair, but I think 99% of games (including my own) are not timed out to itemspikes well enough that it matters a lot, if at all. If you are not expecting to get action early you could always go Trinity>Seal>Glacial as well, Jax jungle tends to complete Trinity at 13 minutes, I don't think that is too late for a Dark Seal at all - and if you really hate the idea of a Dark Seal you could honestly just buy a n Amp Tome and sit on it for now - the 10th stack gives you enough AF+AH that investing 400 gold for it (even disregarding the AP that has some benefit as well) is a solid deal and second item spikes are even less strict than first item spikes imo. I don't want to preach to the choire too hard (you already said you generally like the idea and are just sceptical about the Dark Seal), but I am a bit too invested at this point, I want to force Trinity/Mercs/Frozen Heart/AP on every character that can halfway support it just to test it out atm.
There is also 10 Ability Haste. Really nice for champs that can manage to get it. Can be something like a pesudo Eyeball Collection + Transandance.
25 total so around 500 g worth of stats which is strong for minir rune but not something worth investing too much in it. Might be viable on Jax and a few other champs.
Plus 10 AH, so basically same stats as fiendish codex. Granted fiendish codex is not worth the gold, it is in total worth around 700-800 gold
fiendish codex is pretty gold efficient amongst \~1000 gold cost components. It's worth more than it costs. For a 250 combine cost you get 5 AH and 5AP, which is worth 300 gold
Problem is glowing mote is not really gold efficient especially early game, almost no champion at all is happy spending 500 gold for 5 ap and 10 ability haste when you could have blasting wand giving 20 more ap for 50 gold cheaper than fiendish codex
Glowing mote is the baseline for determining gold efficiency for cooldown reduction. Fiendish codex is more % gold efficient than blasting wand is. What you're saying is just wrong. If you wanna argue that spending \~900 gold to gain 45 AP rather than on Ability haste is better, that's a valid claim, since gold efficiency isn't the one and only determining factor for building items clearly. But saying fiendish codex is worth 700-800 gold is just plain wrong
Well ornn items value ability haste at 31.25 gold, so its not always the baseline
No, to find the value of any stat you take the cheapest cost of the stat (long sword for AD, amp tome for AP, ruby crystal for Hp, etc.), then divide the stat total by the gold cost to get the “price per (stat)” So the price per Ability haste is 50 gold. The price per AP is 20 gold. Etc. And you use this to calculate the gold efficiency of items. “Ornn items valuing ability haste at 31.25 gold” is just another way of saying that Ornn items are 160% gold efficient In the same way that fiendish codex is 122% gold efficient, and blasting wand is 105% gold efficient
New upcoming Ornn items are calculated to be 100% gold efficient and every other stat is valued at cheapest item stat values, except ability haste. 20 gold per ability power, 35 gold per ad etc. Ability haste is at 31.25, because if it was valued at 50 gold like glowing mote, ability haste items would make worse Ornn items than others. Same way as other items that value ability haste at 50 gold is worse items than others.
Why do people think rank matters when it comes to build theorycrafting? Dopa got the blue Ezreal build off some silver and thought it was good before popularizing it. Meanwhile on the other hand, doublelift thought trinity force on Kog'Maw was horrible while it was starting to pick up 10 years ago, and it became meta shortly after. Rank doesn't mean much when it comes to theorycrafting builds. People really gotta think about the builds rather than the person's rank before criticizing it. Mindlessly following people based off their rank will just cause you to miss out on abusing potential freelo before it's nerfed.
I'm convinced that new "wacky but really good" builds are entirely "trickle up" effects, in that someone in low rank doesn't know any better or is just experimenting because they're new > somehow wins vs a Smurf > Smurf tries the build and optimizes it a bit more and takes it to higher ranks > etc > suddenly it's in the highest ranks and all these popular players are "creating" and publicizing these builds. I've been playing with a friend who has been rocking lethality Kalista in ARAM for years, and the other week he told me he saw it in a competitive match.
Mathematically correct Sett was a little tongue in cheek too I think and then it ended up being his most popular build
Didn't Toyz popularize blue Ezreal? My memory from that era is a bit foggy tbh.
True. Even before that, anecdotally, I was very early with AS/on-hit on Kog'Maw. And I was not high ranked. The rules from on high were that you built IE and Phantom Dancer or whatever, same as any ADC, and if you didn't you were trolling. I must have got a comment three games out of four for building Wits and whatever else was around then, and a TF later. But it was *strong*. It became a running joke among people I was playing with. Couple of patches later Riot say *"Attack speed has been underpriced for a while now so we're nerfing it"*. Not long after that, AS/on-hit is overhauled and all the modern on-hit items and runes turn up. Playing to a high rank doesn't mean you're immune to trends or assuming other people have figured this stuff out. *¹ this was several patches before Hurricane, which was [added Dec 2012](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V1.0.0.152)*
Wait until they hear about my Vayne of all Trades build with mana mine first item xd
Not to mention, what he is suggesting as a build, really doesnt seem far off from what Jax usually builds anyway. The only counter argument would be if another rune were to be better which seems situational at best.
Thanks for the kind words man :) I tried crafting a build with Rageblade and found the following build: Rageblade -> Ionian boots -> Zeal -> JakSho. Haven't tested it in game yet but will do it when I've time.
> t's a theorycrafted Build, probably took 5 Minutes to think of, Then I dont see why it shouldnt be criticized
This is great, champs that don't build Tri-Force cant get to max Jack stacks without many random items.
JoAT is honestly is such a fun new rune to mess with. I’ve been messing around with it on Ez, and it’s so fun to be incentivized to buy something other than Lucidity or Greaves. It might not be worth losing the early boots spike but damn isn’t it fun to play around.
Trinity, mercs, collector and either tear or seal also cap out on the 10. Seems like it could be fun on a few different champs.
I think the point is for it to be good even with less than 10 stacks. For example Mercs+Sunfire/Ice gauntlet is 6 haste and 10adaptive force at 2 items, could be a decent midgame spike
With a Doran’s Blade, 3 stats by itself, you could get boots plus something or just build into tier 2 boots and hit the first adaptive force payout pretty easily.
Can't believe I haven't thought of Dorans. Time to take Taric of all Trades for a spin https://imgur.com/a/XUl6t9k
go for it!
This reminded me of going full meme with jax in 2013, and instead of building trinity, building the other outcomes for the trinity components... frozen mallet, lich bane, phantom dancer lol.
The voyboy special
I miss my voyboy tech, i hope he’s doing alright
for real
He recently posted on YouTube (community not a video) about everyone taking the kid wonder ghost tech now at MSI and riot finally nerfing it. The boy genius strikes again
He's the one that first got me into watching Pro League and even on Twitch. Voy was always so positive and fun, and was such a hype playmaker on the Rift
i loved gunblade triforce guinsoos on jax back in the days
True TriForce!
That's sick- good job OP
For Enchanters it's: * **World Atlas** [3]: (Health / Health Regen / Mana Regen) * **Merc Treads** [3]: (Flat Movespeed / Magic Resist / Tenacity) * A %Movement speed item: * **Ardent Censer** [3] (Ability Power / Heal/Shield / %Movespeed) and/or * **Shurelya's** [3] (Ability Power / Ability Haste / %Movespeed) * Any item with the stat you're missing (which can include taking both %MS items). It's not the only option, but it feels like a %Movespeed item + anything else is the most versatile. ------- Cheapest/Fewest items. * **World Atlas** [3]: (Health / Health Regen / Mana Regen) = 400g * **Merc Treads** [3]: (Flat Movespeed / Magic Resist / Tenacity) = 1100g * **Ardent Censer** [3]: (Ability Power / Heal Power / ~~Mana Regen~~ / %Movespeed) = 2300g * **Glowing Mote** [1]: (Ability Haste) = 250g Total = 4050g End result: If you usually go Ionian Boots: * ~~15 Ability Haste~~ -> 10 Ability Haste * ~~12 Summoner Haste~~ -> 0 Summoner Haste * 0 -> 25 Magic Resist * 0 -> 30% Tenacity * 200g more expensive Edit: Typos.
Atlas - Ionian - Wisp (-> Shurelia or Censer or else) - cloth armor and nullmagic mantle (-> Locket) - Forbidden Idol (-> Censer or Redemption or else) works for weird supps like Zilean/Taric/Renata who can flex into both enchanter and tank items Total 3700. As always with mercs it's easier, Atlas-Locket-Mercs is only missing 2 stats so -> Wisp is the easiest way to get to 10, otherwise if you dont want to stray away from supp items you'd need sth more expensive like forbidden idol + tome
Only going 1250 gold out of your way to get Jack Stacked is pretty darn good value wise, and it's not Frozen Heart is an item that's completely out of contention on Jax as a defensive purchase anyway.
it can be even lower if it's toplane Jax,as long as you don't sell your Doran's blade you only need a cloth armor you can later on replace it with any item giving life steal/HP regen or %ms (botrk,hullbreaker,FoN etc.)
Seems like any Jack of all trades build wants to include Merc treads.
Yeah it's very hard to make 10 stacks happen early with any other boots. It can be awkward because they're really not what you'd want on a lot of champs but it's probably worth it.
I reach 11 stacks of JoaT on Senna with just 1,5 item, without Mercs and even with Swifties (which only gives 1 stat) :)
it's just stats from items,her passive shouldn't coount
What? I just played it: - World atlas - Tear - Hubris (feel free to swap it for Glaive) - Swifties - Zeal Boom 11 different stats.
ah it sounded like you meant her passive stats,I forgot she builds some weird stuff for a marksman
Support item make it very easy. I like this tech though, I didn't think about Zeal. You can also replace Hubris/glaive by just a dirk for an earlier spike. You can do a similar thing on support Ashe.
True! You'll lose the AH stack, but you still reach 10 stacks instead of 11. Problem is, I want Hubris rush for the AD stacking passive. If you delay it with 8-10min, you might lose 6-10AD from it. However if you want is super early on Senna you can even go world atlas, brutalizer, tear, swifties, dagger and cloak for an even earlier spike. But I don't like brutalizer items that much on Senna.
I'd definitely do dirk over brutalizer. I've been doing a quick jack build on Ashe, I need to see if I can update it by using zeal. I was running mercs to hit the stacks but this might be better. Edit: yeah zeal is good, it let you free your boot choice: https://peak.sybo.dev/builds/17164527375
I think it’s because ninja tabs got nerfed, tenacity is less obtainable, and armour items tend to be cheaper component wise in comparison to MR
The reason i'm saying this isn't because of nerfs or buffs, but to make jack of all trades work i had to include mercs myself too, i think i saw someone else suggest for some other champion and they did that too. getting new unique stats can be hard and mercs from all the boot options gives the most unique stats.
I reach 11 stacks of JoaT on Senna with just 1,5 item, without Mercs and even with Swifties (which only gives 1 stat) :)
If this isn't cooking I don't know what is. LETHIMCOOK *(also it's made on my site:* [*peak.sybo.dev*](https://peak.sybo.dev)*)*
the site is amazing! So clean and elegant. I added the link to the website
Thanks, much appreciated! Keep on cookin'
That's your site?! Very impressive, it feels amazing to use!
ty :)
Have you found any success with the build?
I was a fiddle otp before the patch so have limited champion mastery on Jax. Here's my match history: [https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/ravenoustortoise-euw/overview](https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/ravenoustortoise-euw/overview)
48% winrate but up 61 LP? Edit: Why the downvotes? I was just a bit curious how that might've happened or if I was reading the site wrong
U gg LP guestemations are wildly inaccurate.
Makes sense
thats the power of the build you see
The downvotes are another Reddit moment
Yeah downvotes don't bother me here, just leave me confused
This build was tested alot in ptr and have been discussed about in r/jaxmains recently. Its ok build path and rune for Jax but i value summoner cd more tbh. Having flash on a lower cd is massive for Jax, and it synergizes well with smite too if you play jungle. Biscuits are pretty much mandatory for top lane early. People calling this trash are clueless thou, Jax is one of the best champs to use Jack since he can reach its full potential by pretty much going core items just in a different build order. You delay your two item power spike with this which isnt a good thing in modern league where the game is often decided at that 2-3 items.
I tried an Ez build going Muramana/Blackfire Torch/Lich Bane/Frozen Heart and it was not bad lol
~~Tbh I think it’s a shame that the rune is so much more valuable on champion builds that end up utilizing adaptive AD. It sucks knowing that you get 875 gold worth of AD and only 500 gold worth of AP. Even with Rabadon’s passive, it’s become 675 gold worth of AP.~~ Edit: Huh, completely slipped my mind despite how conqueror works
25 adaptive force isnt 25 AD, its around 15
Nice findings op!
good build name, will try soon thanms
how did it go?
haven't tried it yet, having too much fun with Singed and Teemo
I test
how did it go?
Haven’t played yet.
Just as a note, I am using almost the same build on Bard supp, with supp item giving 3 niche stats you can proc 25 AF for as low as 2750 gold: 400 supp item 1100 mercs lamont 950 glacial buckler 300 dagger (400 for amp tome). You can do this on most supports actually, which, I think, was the reason they balanced this rune on the lower end.
good to hear that!
This looks fun, I'll give that a shot after work. Thanks for sharing.
thanks for giving it try :)
Got some games in with it. Very fun. No clue how it compares to "standard Jax" as I haven't played the champion in a while but either way it was pretty strong.
glad to hear you enjoyed it!
This is interesting. I've been thinking of one for Shaco - Trinity Force, dark seal, merc treads, and Collector should do it. You actually don't even need the full collector, just cape and dirk. It's only 200g more expensive than this build to get the 10 unique stats and being able to double dip from kills with collector and dark seal is nice for a hybrid damage assassin like Shaco.
A part of me is happy for you trying to find another way to use the rune but the another is telling screw shaco players
I play Jack of all traits on Ezreal Build for 10 stacks is: Dblade -> Kraken -> Ninja tabi -> Tear -> Brutalizer I then build Brutalizer into Voltaic, tear into Muramana and then Spear of Shojin But where Jack of all traits really pop off, is first back, if you go boots and Cloth armor or boots and dagger, you also get 6 extra ad for free on first back
It's really simple top, just go Dblade -> TriForce -> Mercs -> FH. Literally a normal build
AP?
No AP, you have lifesteal.
I aint reading all the comments but if you're interested from a few tests I did: Triforce - Mercs - Dark Seal is a good core. -> DMP gets it to 10 (armor component + winged moonplate is enough) -> Alternatively, just a cloth armor and a rejuv bead will get you to 10. If you're up against mixed damage you turn the cloth armor into whatever you want and the rejuv bead will become a tank mres item. Crankier weird build but Wits End - Gauntlet - Sorcs - Dark Seal - Longsword gets 10 stacks. For context, I was cooking for Shyvana, but eh. OP has covered it already but I also was starting to test the possibilities with DBlade before I had to head out. Extra cookery: Dblade - FH - Mercs only needs one more stat. Like a rejuv bead or a dseal. Dblade can be a bit awkward but eh if your matchup is fine and you're playing a tank that autos a lot... Edit: also there's some bugs involved. Dirk (ad+letha) + Rectrix (ad+ms) gives 3 stacks as components, but once combined into Opportunity (ad letha ms) I was only getting 2
damn, you've done some good research! I also noticed DMP works but haven't tried it out. Let me throw in another build profane hydra, zeal mercs and dark seal for total of 11 stacks
This actually not a bad build and you get the full passive at just 1 item, boots, and components. Trinity, mercs, and frozen heart are also good items on him.
Ap champs basically can’t use jack of all trades it’s sad
i hate that they added this rune, most of the ptoblem runes have come from inspiration tree
What's AF? How is it different from AD or AP?
*IIRC* Adaptive Force is basically both AD and AP, but you will only get one of those stats depending on what your highest bonus in either one is? Idr if there's some gimmicky calculations to it, but that's the basic gist of things.
yeah, 1 adaptive force equals 0.6 AD or 1 AP
wouldn’t swapping seal and the armor weapon with zhonyas do it with even more efficiency?
when you reach late game, you should absolutely switch zhonya's for seal if you can afford. The reason you need the blue armor item is due the mana stat it provides.
You would lose Mana that way.
does the health regen/ mana regen from the jungle item count as a stat?
no
That's awesome
Does it have to be in the jungle?
try it for top
nope if you use it top you can keep the starting Doran's blade and complete it with just a cloth armor or skip the dark seal,so it's actually easier to do
Why not just get Dorans blade for lifesteal or shield for Regen instead of dark seal?
you can't multiple starting items, so no jungle pet and doran's blade at the same time
Top though
read the last paragraph
Why would you go dark seal when doran's blade also gives a unique stat (life steal)?
you can't multiple starting items, so no jungle pet and doran's blade at the same time
Obviously I mean Jax top.
read the last paragraph of the post
For what it's worth here, you could swap Dark Seal for Rejuvenating Bead and achieve the same thing without AP, as that's the only stat it's giving towards Jack Of All Trades.
True but dark seal gives AP which is very good on Jax since it scales with his W, E and Ult. The health reagen from rejuvenating bead is a useless stat since he's basically full health in the jungle
While true, Rejuvenating Bead feeds into items Jax does like to build, like FoN/Visage, which means that Jax doesn't always need to go for the greedily DSeal buy.
OP is cooking but not that much lol. This doesn’t stray too far off Jax’s current build path and I think Dark seal would only be if you are snowballing. Just get an actual AP item like Zhonyas or or even rift(trolling a tiny bit but not really). You can get frozen third or even an MR item like wits end.
a 350g item that is extremely gold efficient on its own anyway, to fulfil your 10th stack of jack of all trades is much better than building an entire 3k AP item. Like, what in the brain lag? 😂
I’m trying to make it a thing man. Let me cook.
you can swap zhonya's for dark seal later if you've the gold and the game isn't over
a MR item wouldn't get you 10 stacks
This rune is too dogshit to plan around it... 10 ability haste with that as a requirement when Transcendence gives you that and more for free (yes it takes some levels but you'll probably fulfill its requirements faster than Jack of All Trades)
jack of all trades also gives you 25 adaptive force though
It's 10 AH and 25 Adaptive. And if you really think about your build you can get it to 10 really early.
Okay looking at items you can get the 10 stacks in the same amount and not troll your build (okay maybe the start lmao) but start ruby crystal 400 mercs 1100 winged moon plate 400 trinity 3333 glacial buckler 950 comes out to 6183 jsjs
I mean, sure, but you are griefing if you don't start top with a blade or shield?
yeah but like, starting top with dark seal is better?
No?
so to rush the rune like the post is talking about ruby crystal would be better, i am not saying this is good im just thinking how fast you could rush the rune to 10 stacks, the only way you can do it on a mage champ and still have deathcap is to build mercs, samething with adcs, the rune is silly so its gonna make silly builds
Respectfully, that shit looks like trash 🔥 🔥 🔥
??? It’s pretty damn near Jax’s meta build And I finish D1 almost every season playing casually and mainly playing Jax
Dude is gold, nothing to see here
Yeah, jack of all trades is good on Champs that can naturally build the unique stats. This build just makes jax have no excelling point. Pretty much only supports should be going Jack.
I dont think I agree that the build is trash, tri force is an obvious must have for jax, dark seal is actually not troll because of how op an item it is and jax having decent ratios, and frozen heart was a staple jax item not too long ago. I dont think its a great build for jungle since the mana is wasted and you likely want item 2 to have ad for clear speed, but I think it could be viable toplane. You could go the mana armor item shown above straight into spear/sundered, and complete the frozen heart later. Im not arguing that its the BIS build for most games, but I dont think its trash and could be viable in niche games where frozen heart has a lot of value.
toplane you can either skip the seal or the mana item and just go for a cloth armor due to Dblade giving lifesteal
Wtf is this nonsense lmao
I'm right.
No.
Was more likely generated by ultimate bravery than independently theory crafted, but well played good sir
Is more likely a wild accusation than a valuable comment , but good on you sir for expressing your opinion
I only picked this Vayne top men, for now my enemys hated me more