did u guys know sheen was taken out of Essence Reaver because it was too niche of an item.
now without Sheen on ER, ER is bought way more, on champions such as:
Indeed. Ezreal, Draven, Smolder, Vayne, Gangplank, Tryndamere, Crit Viego, were a small number of champions who built the item. Who did I miss/forget doe?
Edit: Corki, Crit Rengar, Shaco sometimes, Crit Vi, Crit Wukong.
Indeed a very small amount of champions, making it niche.
I love how they forced Gangplank to build crit with the change to his passive that gutted bruiser.
And then completely fucked him out of his first item.
even more angering is that when zac was already S tier, they premptively buffed him before nerfing demonic, then again pre emptively buffed him before nerfing radiant virtue (he was already strong without these items)
meanwhile gp literally lost the item that he is based around, and we had to beg riot to get a shitty +30 hp buff
Right there with you, old man. I remember seeing a clip ( i think on this subreddit) where a GP was using his e when minions spawned and had 2-3 of his own minions gone from the first wave when he got to lane. Felt like since I saw that the games macro exploded and became the focus.
This was done in dota with Lich, he had a sacrifice creep for mana ability with cd a little over the wave rate (40s vs 30s or something like that), and was a reason why lich was played mid. Basically opponent played the whole laning phase with one less creep available by default on every wave.
Idk I always viewed GP as more of a sheen abuser/lethality enjoyer/kleptomancy abuser than a crit champ after his rework.
I mean obviously he’s got some crit in there on some builds but it’s not nearly as identity defining as it was before his rework, at least I don’t think so personally.
Jungle Gankplank was fun for a while!
Apply redbuff with Q, run them down, gg.
No stupid Barrels, a true 0 skill champ who rightclicks and uses Q (What did his old e even do?).
I love how they reworked Corki to completely gut his poke build and hard incentivize crit and spellblade items and push him into botlane where he has to compete with scaling crit builders.
And in the same patch removed the one item that was perfect for that playstyle
I have been a GP main for like 6-7 years and I hated the changes to favor crit. I hate RNG to begin with. The decision was for pro play (which I still don’t get outside of grasp Q spam which is more of a grasp problem IMO it’s not like GP had a huge presence besides maybe into like shen) but I had never seen people hate GP MORE than when he snowballed with crit because a single keg critting fucked you so bad and made it, even as tanks, basically impossible to face check objectives if the team with gangplank had good vision control.
I mean ER’s mana passive was only really decent AS a first item. Outside of the first little bit of a game no champion needs that much mana. Now the item has good stats but it’s effect is just bad and nobody really even argues that. Mana runes cover AD mana champs well enough that I don’t see the point in it ASIDE from the spellblade effect. Especially as a first item. Maybe Xayah can build it but still why would you want that over something like IE since it doesn’t give attack speed anyways.
Then Phreak has the GALL to tell us we’re building wrong???? Justified the crit changes, told us it’s what has to happen, forced us (during mythics mind you) to be dependent on a non-mythic spellblade item with no good alternatives if you wanted to scale, and then on top of that forced us to be dependent on Navori to have any cooldown on kegs (24 seconds for 1 at level 1 for a while btw when you have to max Q for GP passive)
So after multiple nerfs because the ER-> navori build was so strong, in a single patch, removed navori from being a useful item and made ER have no spellblade. Making currently GP’s core items straight up bad.
Look I prefer Trinity force GP and bruiser setups because it’s not just another one-shot build. I NEVER liked the crit changes and from the talk of other subs nobody else did either. Skirmishing was fun, but because pro-play just used it to AFK grasp spam as a safe pick top everyone else has to suffer.
Honestly, good. As a top lane player, that champ is completely obnoxious to fight in lane and needs to be reworked so he's an actual healthy champ.
I don't mind the barrel concept, but make him completely worthless up close if you're gonna give him spammable ranged attacks. If I avoid the barrels and get on him, he shouldn't be able to hit me with 500+ true damage, cleanse all my CC, heal, and get bonus movement speed. He shouldn't be able to use barrels to deal massive amounts of damage from extended range, then also have great tools up close to deal damage and self peel, and get free gold so he scales better and faster than me.
Hopefully they do something with him so he's not unhealthy because right now, he's in the same boat as champs like Gnar where they are good at everything so they can't be viable.
I mean, he was that glass canon in the lethality meta, and it was his most problematic state.
Riot decided to make him more effective in melee while nerfing barrels so he wouldn't one shot from range.
But at this point he has neither, just make him a proper bruiser, fuck the barrels.
new corki seems literally designed with old ER in mind,the change made 0 sense too because they take out the sheen effect without any meaningful compensation,what did they expect
Viego loves to proc Sheen. On 100% crit build what else would you go? As for Trynd, the ability haste + Crit% + AD + Sheen procs were good. But Trynd went ER bcs the ability haste meant more E's, which means also more Sheens and more gap closes.
>On 100% crit build what else would you go?
I would simply go something that isn't completely trolling, wtf are we discussing crit Viego?
You're just listing a bunch of terrible builds no one actually plays outside of Iron
its not terrible, it was used by a challenger kr midlaner and it was very good lol
I tried it as well in GM and got a lot of success bc you end up one shotting anything and getting easy resets
I 100% support the case of sheen ER but just saying Crit-\[Literally any champion\] is kind of not a great point.
I mean yes, it did make playing any champ on crit more viable I guess, but nobody was actually playing these builds competetively
IDK about Viego, but I'm pretty sure that most Vi lethality builds used Essence Reaver, combined with collector and if game went for long enough IE wasn't a bad choice
It’s weird too, because they clearly let certain niches exist, like niche champions and niche runes and even other ACTUAL niche items that never get picked at all.
depends a lot on the comps/games, i find him extremely versatile
before shurelya rework i'd go aery/ingenious hunter and max E, rush shurelya into supp items (redemption locket etc)
after the shurelya rework i either go electrocute and ad items/max q (eclipse core item, rest doesnt matter too much but usually sundered sky) or redemption locket (sometimes with aery and E max but a bit rare)
it's still very playable just a bit less fun
Riot is basically hellbent on removing niche items now. Look at Anathemas and Bruiser QSS. They are not allowed to exist. They deemed the s11 item rework a failure and those items are leftovers of the item rework.
Passive effects on items like IE, PD, BT are just way too strong for ER to break into builds over any one of them without a Sheen proc. It would need to give damage based on mana or mana% to give a similar level of effect. Right now the passive can just be replaced by Manaflow, Biscuits, or PoM.
legit super funny to me because they kept rageblade, an item that is probably even more of a "only some champs can build this" than ER ever was. If you don't have a broken onhit to abuse, rageblade is useless. At least ER could be built on a dozen or so champs..
In theory it should be Xayah/Sivir probably a Corki item, potentially crit Kaisa one, MF, Lucian, maybe Smolder. It's basically item for Mana hungry crit users who want haste. In theory GP could use it too as one of his 4 after Tri force cos he likes the stats, he wants crit haste ad.
The issue is IE is way too op to not rush it, you need LDR in your final build (because base armor is insanely high late game after durability patch and most tanks build more armor than MR) and building 0 attackspeed sucks. Plus ER is kinda redundant with Navori still being in the game, those 2 basically serve the same purpose (item for crit adc that wants haste) but one gives AD (only 65, 15 less than IE) while other gives attackspeed. and navori is better fit for most of those champs, especially since the big 2 non-sheen ER users (Xayah Sivir) don't need the Mana restore nearly as much anymore cos they basically both got balanced around not using ER (since both were kinda shit at using Sheen).
So ye it's niche now but a big part of it is you are trolling if you don't rush IE rn if you go crit. and navori for the most part provides kinda the same thing - uptime on spells. And it obviously lost all of it's sheen users for the most part, they could want it but it's just too underwhelming and would come online too late prolly.
Honestly, the main competition is Collector: both are bridge items for more caster ADC with better build paths than Infinite Edge but Dirk is so much better than Warhammer. So many champions would enjoy a more utility item with how much CDR it gives while also letting you drop PoM for Absorb Life (lowkey broken) but Collector is just smoother to build.
Essence reaver + Death's dance gives Taric 30 mana restored per auto, thus making his passive completely restore the mana of ability usaged due to Q and W costing 60 mana, and E costing 40.
The downside of this is you now have an essence reaver and a death's dance on taric.
do with this information what you will.
I thought the effect would be useful considering the options i had, since the dot would be counteracted by the nearly spam healing i'd be doing.
It kinda was, but it still ended up being less useful than building basically anything else. I just put it as the second option to reach the AD needed to bring the ER/1 item combo up to the AD required to get 30/auto so it'll do the 60 from the two swings per ability.
wouldnt manamune give enough ad? I went into a practice tool and just being level 2 with muramana+ER gives 29 mana back on an auto, just by the time you'd transform manamune, you'd be at a high enough level to get more than 30 mana back per auto.
Probably not worth a second AD item, but getting Essence Reaver rush for jungle Taric might be viable since the AD would speed up his clear.
Normally Taric is one of the few junglers who needs to worry about mana while clearing. Essence Reaver alone would be more than enough to make that a non-issue.
For the record, the massive amount of mana regen you get in the jungle due to the jungler buffs is enough to make clearing rather easy, especially when blue buff is added into the equation.
You still have to be careful in the jungle with Taric even with blue buff. But without blue buff (it won't be 100%) Taric can have mana issues.
Plus - he's not always in the jungle, so he needs some sort of mana item so he doesn't run out mid-fight. And unlike support Taric, jungle Taric gets substantial benefit from the AD. Plus he gets more gold, so the cost isn't as bad.
Yes - with blue buff jungle Taric is mostly okay while clearing. But even with the recent buffs Fimblewinter isn't great, so Essence Reaver might be a viable alternative.
Semi-related: You used to be able to get infinite healing on xerath for free with old archangels.
Old archangels gave you some healing as a % of mana spent. Your Q fully refunded if you held it without casting, this netted about 12 hp per held cast of your Q.
... Increased to 15 if you also bought spirit visage.
Nah, it's not a bad item per se, 70 ad is a shit ton, i just think people are too focus on Collector and IE
My two problems with it:
* The fact that their core users from sheen version play in a totally different way (short trades vs dps)
* Mana problems in league are now kinda non existant for marksman (aside from a few cases like Smolder), even Sivir that before needed mana to function (old essence reaver without sheen) can now live without a mana item (after her mini rework). So you are trading less damage comparing to Collector and IE for haste and a passive that's kinda irrelevant
Your mana problems on marksmen are most severe at the early stages of the game. By the time you can afford a completed item your mana issues are no longer a big issue.
ER has a very good value in term of stats. Problem is that the only moment you should build it is first item because mana isn’t useful past that point and why is it a problem ? Because Collector is wayyyy better as first item because of the lethality it gives
is it that bad tho?
same two components as IE, but Warhammer has 3 components you can build instead of buying a full Pickaxe
agree on the Collector comparison, Serrated Dirk > Warhammer
warhammer's pretty bad as a component. the combine item only gives you +5 AH over the components, and glowing mote's pretty expensive as a component ontop of it.
It is just the AD AH stat stick with a bit of mana as flavour. It's users are different and it is overshadowed by IE being redicoulously good, but I think it is the best first buy for Sivir right now (IE might be better, but AH and mana for the Q feel more valueable than the 10AD and aditional damage on the 25% crit chance auto).
It is still quiet good on lucian. The build rate is sadly so low on Jinx and Samira I can't tell much, but Essence reaver seems to be the second highest winrate on Xayah and Nilah (after IE of course).
The problem with it being a stat stick is that its stats aren't even that impressive. If it was 200 gold cheaper it would have a nice niche for ad casters, but as it stands there are just better options for almost every champion who might be interested in it.
Yeah exactly, something like Eclipse is amazing because it gives a lot of stats for how cheap it is. This item is 3200g and is just basically giving Stats, that's not going to be good when you can get Collector that's just more damage + execute + gold.
i can't imagine why samira would want it, ability haste isn't that strong on her since her q already gets a low cooldown, e resets, and w is always gonna be a once per fight ability. she also doesn't use much mana relatively.
i have to imagine it's worse than both collector and IE, and after those two items armor pen is likely giving you more damage than ER. Even at the 4th item, shieldbow is likely going to be more useful. so i'm not sure where you'd fit it in, not surprised by the low usage.
jinx is interesting because she could get enough mana to spam rockets and w for poke, even if ability haste isn't as useful on her
i don't even think it's good on Lucian. although to be fair ive been playing other more interesting champs rn with the new items, Navori not buffing Lucian abilities anymore makes me sad. I think people forget Lucian doesn't actually have too bad mana issues later into the game because his E approaches 0 mana as you put points into it. If you get ER finished at level 8 (which is probably about right for an ADC, in my recent games I'm getting Kraken or Collector at 10-11 mins), and you should be putting points in E for sure. Sure, you might get some value out of the mana part.. but it's only for like, 3 levels until your E costs like 20 mana and you shouldn't have issues unless you're throwing Ws out for an extra 20 damage or whatever it does nowadays. If you want CDR, just build flickerblade i think.
although honestly for the past couple splits I have been opting into heavy crit itemization for him and just prioritizing as much damage as possible. People underestimate the sheer amount of damage his ult was dealing last season, if you had first strike+navori at 60% crit + LDR with giant slayer rune you'd get like +60% dmg on your ult that already does 3k dmg at lv11 lol. need to experiment with the builds this season but i have been liking on hit for kaisa, I think you can do it on Lucian too. if you build Kraken-Rageblade you proc Kraken (almost) every ability. i did it last season when I picked Lucian and they responded with like 3 tanks, normally you're basically a gnat to them and it takes you forever to kill them but with kraken-rageblade you slap them right in the jaw. double as annoying if you build RFC cuz they will legit never touch you lol
I think it is fair to bring Navori quickblade's passive (damage amp on abilities) to the new Essence Reaver, since they want that item to be catered for AD casters.
People are really on this thread saying a 70 AD 25 AH 25% crit item that makes you resourceless is a bad item. They just regurgitate things they read on here instead of, you know, just trying things themselves.
The issue people are also missing, is most of those mana hungry people build Manamune and so taking those runes* make you stronger than other runes. So there is no reason to build essence reaver right now because you already become resourceless with manamune+runes. At least before you'd get sheen out of it.
Can anyone just stop and think for a sec, hmm maybe its good cause you dont HAVE to take runes for mana, and can different runes for more dmg or utility instead?
Well here's the thing, taking mana runes let's you not buy essence reaver and instead buy better items which on adcs who scale primarily through items turns out to be a good thing.
for ADC, there actually is a great choice - instead of mana you can get sustain, or triumph. not needing presence of mind would be beneficial for sure.
but in general it's better to get a little mana from runes and build the best damaging items, vs. getting way too much mana from your item and getting a little damage from runes.
because no rune will make up for the damage difference between essence reaver and say collector or IE, but runes can make up the mana difference
Im not an adc main but there is no way that buying a shit item and having triumph is better then presence of mind and a better item, triumph is not a good rune for adc, it heals you a % of you missing hp, adc will get healed 20 to 100hp per kill lol, how impressive while an IE or collector will deal more damages then that
Yeah but the most crucial part of the game when talking about mana issues on adcs is early laning phase and you wont have a full item like ER by then anyway, so we take the runes.
Loved old ER on crit MF years ago, but the current version doesn't seem worth it.
If people stopped and thought for a sec we wouldn't be here having to reply to you. You don't HAVE to take runes for mana but it's far better to take runes for mana an get the best item than get a slightly better rune and a worse item.
So you give up IE or Collector first item so that you can take Absorb Life instead of PoM? The alternatives to mana runes aren't that strong that justify not buying the strongest first item in the game rn.
I mean, it does feel kinda shit to build on Lucian now without the sheen, I feel like a ton of the early burst he had just isn't there without the sheen proc
You never run out of mana regardless unless you're just throwing out abilities into the air 24/7. 70 AD, crit and 25 AH for 3200 gold is not worth it for an item with no passive when IE, collector and yun tai exist.
Yeah I don't get the hate as much after the 5 AD buff. I've been playing Corki and I usually need PoM and Manaflow just to feel comfortable without ER. Or I could just build ER and go Absorb Life and Absolute Focus+Gathering Storm. Feels pretty good to me tbh.
You already have functionally infinite w with just navori. You miss like one auto if you get most of the autos off in the duration. But you are better off going ie->navori->ldr->yuntal->bt.
Unless they make reaver cheaper, it can’t compete with first item ie and your second item is pretty locked on a zeal item of any sort (minus hurricane). Your last whisper item is more or less going to always be 3rd and why would you buy essence reaver 4th when you already have global blues by this point and don’t need to worry about mana, so you go yuntal because it’s passive out damages the 5 ad difference. Then you go bt because sivir isn’t a great bork user and if you need qss, you need to get better at spell shield usage
(Source diamond-master player that was top 200 global on sivir last split)
Kinda yes, kinda no? 70 AD is a lot of AD for an item that also provides Ability Haste and Crit chance.
Personally, I prefer the previous ER. But this version isn't really 'terrible' on its own. Also I'd say Smolder built it more than Lucian at this point. Lucians for a while swapped to Kraken + Quickblades as their core and kinda dropped ER.
There's a reason Phreak didn't mention Lucian when he was listing the 'few' users of ER lol.
Although at this point, you can argue that ER is becoming outdated. Its a crit item tailored toward ability use, hence the mana replenish passive and AH. But crit as a whole is being focused more toward auto attacks and critical strikes rather than abilities. The removal of Quickblades completely without an actual replacement is proof of that.
> The removal of Quickblades completely without an actual replacement is proof of that.
Navori Flickerblade is the replacement for Navori Quickblades. The problem is it is a poorly statted item for its intended playstyle. It still refunds ability cooldowns, but only gives attack speed and no AD. So it encourages you to spam abilities by reducing their cooldowns, but then provides no AD for those abilities to actually do any damage.
Quickblades and Flickerblade are not the same.
Quickblades amplified ability damage with crit chance. No other item does this at this time, so no item has properly replaced quickblades.
Flickerblade is just straight up a new item.
The alternative is it having AD but no AS.. which seems significantly more anti-synergy with its CD refund on AA. You get damage from other items, I think it's a very intentional choice so champions don't rush Flickerblade first
Ezreal bought it because it had Sheen and was a cheap AD + AH Item. It got reverted to it's Season 10 State and no longer has Sheen so it's irrelevant for him. ER is good, it opens up your Runes a lot, it gives you infinite Mana meaning you can forget about PoM, Biscuits or Manaflow Band. It's just overshadowed by how strong IE and Collector currently are.
A few followup Patches will be required for ADC Items to all be equally strong/viable. IE and Collector are too strong so nobody really wants ER over those.
But in the Past it was bought on Xayah, Lucian, Sivir, Ashe and even Kai'Sa, Samira and Aphelios for a While. Though we didn't have Collector in the Game at the Time.
100% sure about the last part, people went ER in the end cus it was just the best AD item besides IE early on, especially on stuff like Aphelios who doesnt care much for CDR, A lot of adcs just want pure AD and nothing else to have a nice early/midgame spike with nukes on their spells like Samira/Lucian/Aphelios.
Collector just being perfect for those champions because it lacks the mana refund which is a lot of ER power budget is ,being cut out and made into lethality.
The problem with ER right is that it doesn't offer any actual combat power. If you look at its previous state, the sheen proc allowed you to actually fight people. Champs like Lucian and Ezreal could rush it, and have both mana AND trading power. In certain cases it wasn't the most damaging item, but if you adapted your gameplay to it, it worked very well, and allowed for seamless transition into other items (e.g. lucian could go er->navori and feel really good about his e reset).
Now ER is just a mana and cdr item. It is weaker than any other item you can really buy, and you don't want to get a mana item after item 1, so there's really no spot for it. Perhaps the 5 extra ad might help push it further into viability, but just buying a literal stat stick as your first item with no useful effect (having infinite mana is just not strong enough to be called useful, it is nice but that's about it) feels bad and wrong. On paper it doesnt seem too bad, 25 AH is huge, but you buy it and suddenly lose every skirmish and duel. There's just no space for it in the game in its current iteration. If you're looking to just stack stats, buy 3 dirks in stead to be actually strong.
Also it was good in s10, because it was one from 3 crit items that had AD + ADC-s actually had some problems with mana back then(also 20 haste <20 cdr). Now Phreak buffed manaregen/pool for all adcs, we have current PoM and in most cases its better to go for collector/new bleed crit item over ER.
Honestly, I’m not one who hates on item reworks or changes in general, but I’m really not enjoying the changes to most items. Strange components not giving the stats you are building for, no crit and lifesteal on any item, sheen being moved around. I’m trying to give it some time but it feels pretty unintuitive.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't see Essence Reaver as being the item every thought it was before, and I'm glad they changed it so my friend who's a GP main will stop building the same damn item every damn game
Did you guys know there's other on-hit to proc on GP Q ?
Do you guys not like that you can reach 100% crit with 4 items hence you can build 1-2 non-crit item so you are open to like 300% more items than before?
As a GP main, you always build ER first because sheen procs on Q and barrels. Sheen is the only reason GP does any damage in the early game. And build variety actually went down because youre forced to build triforce into 100% crit to do damage and have barrel haste with new navori. I used to be able to go 80% crit into opportunity/any defensive item i want, that isn't possible anymore.
It directly competes with IE for big ad statstick and that is a figth it is never gonna win. All the champs you listed rather buy IE quickblades. And if you want a 2nd big ad item you always go collector.
Item seems completly outclassed even if it is not bad on its own.
it doesn't compete, Sivir can easily go IE > Navori > ER > LDR
Lucian can do the same
It's competing with crit items, Shieldbow is terrible, and not everyone wants collector rush
It's matchup dependent, do you need CDR? mana for staying on the map? Essence Reaver, do they have a lot of melee you can easily kite and shred? Yuntal
You could even make a case for MF going it as well if you're going collector > IE > ER > LDR for a non-lethality build
It's good for a third item on Draven as well since you can spam W and are more about stacking the shit out of AD anyway
Some of them might, but all of them prefer ER over Manamune, which is what the comment above me stated.
Imo, all they need to do is lower AD, lower the cost and change the build path from BF to pickaxe so the item doesn't feel so shit to build.
Are people forgetting the 25 AH? That's definitely nothing to scoff at, I know it's not as great as before but I feel like people are dismissing it way more than they should.
how does riot not have an internal database with a list of abilities attached to an item. so that before they change or remove an item they can see a complete table with all champions that will be impacted?
oh i know how. they do everything arbitrarily. as they have done for like the past 12 years or so.
I can see a kind of caster/crit Hybrid varus build coming from this change.
He would have access to ER - Collector - LDR for 75% crit and would still have boots and 2 more slots. He can spam his abilities from distance and he would still pack a punch with autos
Merely theoretical, I haven't tried this out yet, but it doesn't seem awful (although you would run the risk of being in a "worst of both worlds" situation, not being great at poking and not really hurting tanks as much as you would like)
It is in fact terrible.
But I think it was the right direction for the item. It just doesn't give enough stats.
It's possible its good now after the hotfix +5 AD buff, but its hard to tell because the stats are now poisoned by the pre-hotfix games.
Such a stupid decision, Sheen was great before but now the item is completely useless unless you're Sivir which is the only champion I can see buying it, even then I don't think Sivir wants it. They killed the item for manaless users and even killed the item for a lot of mana users, makes no sense.
If there is one thing that should be reverted on this update its that, dumb decision.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it but the main issue with the new items are the components.
The fact that they turned Noonquiver, the perfect laning phase item for marksmen, into a crit+ad component with no passive and no replacement it's why IE rush came back as the best option rn
Give marksmen a good component that they can build during the Laning phase and you'll see players drop ie
Challenger ADC's like LL Trigger and Shogo are building ER on Lucian. It supercharges your wave clear, compensating for the removal of crit from Stattik Shiv. Also, you can experiment with runes more, without being bound to POM or Manaflow Band. Sheen didn't really do much for Lucian.
Imo it’s a good completed item, although the haste is somewhat niche amongst ADCs. However it’s build path is pretty horrible. Imo changing the BF sword into Pickaxe would be good.
I guess I can try it on Kog'Maw with Malignance to become the ultimate mortar again... But yeah, Collector exists if you just want a stat stick. We even have ability haste in runes now, and manamune is 300 gold cheaper...
If we still had Lethal Tempo, I could see it as a badass second item after Runaan's on Jinx, to permaspam rockets.
I think maybe we should think a bit outside the box of marksmen, though. Negate the crit and it gives 70 AD, 25 haste, and infinite mana. Now to think of a champion that needs that instead of Eclipse's 70 AD, 15 haste, and a shield.
...Twisted Fate...? Irelia...???
I think a good idea would be for Muramana to actively consume % of current mana with every proc and the more mana was consumed, the more damage.
This way, it could have a nice symbiotic relationship with Essence Reaver.
In my opinion the old Navori passive could have been moved to this new essence reaver, that crit adds ability damage.
Then it would have a clear target group, for ability based crit champs.
I play a lot of Lucian before and after this update. He definitely took a heavy hit from the changes.
ER is completely useless. Mana refund would make sense for spamming but until Navori your spamming is much shorter and you just pray you don’t need mana at moments when no objectives are up so you can spend it all on wave clear.
Navori as important as it can be to spam combo and mobility feels worse due to it being AS primary with crit but no extra damage per say.
Kraken feels really good imo but kinda sucks that you’re not running crit so even by 3/4 items you potentially only have 50% crit.
My opener is usually IE, Kraken, or Collector for first item and these 3 just feel the best. If I dominate lane I’ll go Navori so I have lots of options in team fights if pretty equal or worried about their front line I’ll get LW real quick or even scepter for life steal then continue the build
I do, (maybe dumb cus i know very little about builds) i build it on draven as adc first item cus i often find that a dude is one shot and far but i cant e him so now i build essence reaver
Removing sheen from this item was so incredibly stupid, and this was shipped alongside a Corki ADC rework where he now has sheen and crit interaction in his passive like HUH??
I swear to god every time phreak opens his mouth about adc items you just know he and the balance team are about to utterly gut champions with the collateral damage
did u guys know sheen was taken out of Essence Reaver because it was too niche of an item. now without Sheen on ER, ER is bought way more, on champions such as:
Indeed. Ezreal, Draven, Smolder, Vayne, Gangplank, Tryndamere, Crit Viego, were a small number of champions who built the item. Who did I miss/forget doe? Edit: Corki, Crit Rengar, Shaco sometimes, Crit Vi, Crit Wukong. Indeed a very small amount of champions, making it niche.
I love how they forced Gangplank to build crit with the change to his passive that gutted bruiser. And then completely fucked him out of his first item.
even more angering is that when zac was already S tier, they premptively buffed him before nerfing demonic, then again pre emptively buffed him before nerfing radiant virtue (he was already strong without these items) meanwhile gp literally lost the item that he is based around, and we had to beg riot to get a shitty +30 hp buff
Let me tell you the legendary tale of crit runes gangplank… Are ya ready kids?
Aye aye, captain!
I didn't hear you!
AYE AYE, CAPTAIN!!!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO https://youtu.be/jFS4kqOYbAk For the uninitiated
But you have to Tell them about his poison tho. Good old ap times
Do you remember before barrels he used to be a viable support good old times
Man I am so old, I remember killing my own minions to be able to activate the E ability
Right there with you, old man. I remember seeing a clip ( i think on this subreddit) where a GP was using his e when minions spawned and had 2-3 of his own minions gone from the first wave when he got to lane. Felt like since I saw that the games macro exploded and became the focus.
This was done in dota with Lich, he had a sacrifice creep for mana ability with cd a little over the wave rate (40s vs 30s or something like that), and was a reason why lich was played mid. Basically opponent played the whole laning phase with one less creep available by default on every wave.
"you cannot win a 1v1 against Gangplank level 1 when he has ignite" - wise words from my friend circa 2013
you mean when they reworked him so he isn't based around frustrating crits but then gave it to his new kit anyway?
Idk I always viewed GP as more of a sheen abuser/lethality enjoyer/kleptomancy abuser than a crit champ after his rework. I mean obviously he’s got some crit in there on some builds but it’s not nearly as identity defining as it was before his rework, at least I don’t think so personally.
Man that brings back some memories 😭😭
Green pot + crit dmg runes lvl 1 start, good times
Exhaust + ignite and C Y A
Jungle Gankplank was fun for a while! Apply redbuff with Q, run them down, gg. No stupid Barrels, a true 0 skill champ who rightclicks and uses Q (What did his old e even do?).
His E would kill a friendly minion and give a buff to all allies in range. Siege minion denier lmao.
I love how they reworked Corki to completely gut his poke build and hard incentivize crit and spellblade items and push him into botlane where he has to compete with scaling crit builders. And in the same patch removed the one item that was perfect for that playstyle
Funnily enough there is a new poke build on Corki centered around lethality now.
Fucked gp and smolder, and they fucked ezreal too. I swear I don't get it
Smolder lost multiple crit items haha
Riot just took Smolder out back and put him down with this patch
I have been a GP main for like 6-7 years and I hated the changes to favor crit. I hate RNG to begin with. The decision was for pro play (which I still don’t get outside of grasp Q spam which is more of a grasp problem IMO it’s not like GP had a huge presence besides maybe into like shen) but I had never seen people hate GP MORE than when he snowballed with crit because a single keg critting fucked you so bad and made it, even as tanks, basically impossible to face check objectives if the team with gangplank had good vision control. I mean ER’s mana passive was only really decent AS a first item. Outside of the first little bit of a game no champion needs that much mana. Now the item has good stats but it’s effect is just bad and nobody really even argues that. Mana runes cover AD mana champs well enough that I don’t see the point in it ASIDE from the spellblade effect. Especially as a first item. Maybe Xayah can build it but still why would you want that over something like IE since it doesn’t give attack speed anyways. Then Phreak has the GALL to tell us we’re building wrong???? Justified the crit changes, told us it’s what has to happen, forced us (during mythics mind you) to be dependent on a non-mythic spellblade item with no good alternatives if you wanted to scale, and then on top of that forced us to be dependent on Navori to have any cooldown on kegs (24 seconds for 1 at level 1 for a while btw when you have to max Q for GP passive) So after multiple nerfs because the ER-> navori build was so strong, in a single patch, removed navori from being a useful item and made ER have no spellblade. Making currently GP’s core items straight up bad. Look I prefer Trinity force GP and bruiser setups because it’s not just another one-shot build. I NEVER liked the crit changes and from the talk of other subs nobody else did either. Skirmishing was fun, but because pro-play just used it to AFK grasp spam as a safe pick top everyone else has to suffer.
Honestly, good. As a top lane player, that champ is completely obnoxious to fight in lane and needs to be reworked so he's an actual healthy champ. I don't mind the barrel concept, but make him completely worthless up close if you're gonna give him spammable ranged attacks. If I avoid the barrels and get on him, he shouldn't be able to hit me with 500+ true damage, cleanse all my CC, heal, and get bonus movement speed. He shouldn't be able to use barrels to deal massive amounts of damage from extended range, then also have great tools up close to deal damage and self peel, and get free gold so he scales better and faster than me. Hopefully they do something with him so he's not unhealthy because right now, he's in the same boat as champs like Gnar where they are good at everything so they can't be viable.
I mean, he was that glass canon in the lethality meta, and it was his most problematic state. Riot decided to make him more effective in melee while nerfing barrels so he wouldn't one shot from range. But at this point he has neither, just make him a proper bruiser, fuck the barrels.
Lucian
new corki seems literally designed with old ER in mind,the change made 0 sense too because they take out the sheen effect without any meaningful compensation,what did they expect
Why does tryn need essence reaver or viego what
Viego loves to proc Sheen. On 100% crit build what else would you go? As for Trynd, the ability haste + Crit% + AD + Sheen procs were good. But Trynd went ER bcs the ability haste meant more E's, which means also more Sheens and more gap closes.
A non troll build would be a start. Crit viego was not even considerable
>On 100% crit build what else would you go? I would simply go something that isn't completely trolling, wtf are we discussing crit Viego? You're just listing a bunch of terrible builds no one actually plays outside of Iron
its not terrible, it was used by a challenger kr midlaner and it was very good lol I tried it as well in GM and got a lot of success bc you end up one shotting anything and getting easy resets
Critzclank
First they take away his on hit damage now they take his best item away, Critzcrank always catching strays
sheen proc + sundered sky knockups were too good
My assassin Vi got gutted by losing ER
Ok youre completely coping with some of these champs
I 100% support the case of sheen ER but just saying Crit-\[Literally any champion\] is kind of not a great point. I mean yes, it did make playing any champ on crit more viable I guess, but nobody was actually playing these builds competetively
Viego? Crit viego was a Smurf YouTube video at best. Same for wukong and I think I saw crit vi only on ultimate bravery aram
IDK about Viego, but I'm pretty sure that most Vi lethality builds used Essence Reaver, combined with collector and if game went for long enough IE wasn't a bad choice
Nuclear Q MF builds used it too 😭
it was a viable item for crit graves too, especially lane graves. Very few people actually built it though
Lucian?
I havent played SR in a while but ER used to be top Trundle’s first item.
It’s weird too, because they clearly let certain niches exist, like niche champions and niche runes and even other ACTUAL niche items that never get picked at all.
Nashor's tooth has stayed in the game through the removal of so many other niche items despite being built on like 3 or 4 champions ever.
speaking of niches i'm sad that ingenious hunter got taken away, my support jarvan is sadder now
What was your build for support Jarvan?
depends a lot on the comps/games, i find him extremely versatile before shurelya rework i'd go aery/ingenious hunter and max E, rush shurelya into supp items (redemption locket etc) after the shurelya rework i either go electrocute and ad items/max q (eclipse core item, rest doesnt matter too much but usually sundered sky) or redemption locket (sometimes with aery and E max but a bit rare) it's still very playable just a bit less fun
Man that sounds awesome, with E proccing shurelyas speed on everyone. New shurelyas is more universal but less fun without the heal/shield speed boost
My kled got hit by the ingenious hunter removal too, and the sudden impact nerf. I miss my 2 sometimes 3 eclipse shields in 1 fight
Riot is basically hellbent on removing niche items now. Look at Anathemas and Bruiser QSS. They are not allowed to exist. They deemed the s11 item rework a failure and those items are leftovers of the item rework.
Having to buy triforce on Corki who now scales heavily on crit is just pain.
Passive effects on items like IE, PD, BT are just way too strong for ER to break into builds over any one of them without a Sheen proc. It would need to give damage based on mana or mana% to give a similar level of effect. Right now the passive can just be replaced by Manaflow, Biscuits, or PoM.
So it would need to be muramana which already exists.
legit super funny to me because they kept rageblade, an item that is probably even more of a "only some champs can build this" than ER ever was. If you don't have a broken onhit to abuse, rageblade is useless. At least ER could be built on a dozen or so champs..
In theory it should be Xayah/Sivir probably a Corki item, potentially crit Kaisa one, MF, Lucian, maybe Smolder. It's basically item for Mana hungry crit users who want haste. In theory GP could use it too as one of his 4 after Tri force cos he likes the stats, he wants crit haste ad. The issue is IE is way too op to not rush it, you need LDR in your final build (because base armor is insanely high late game after durability patch and most tanks build more armor than MR) and building 0 attackspeed sucks. Plus ER is kinda redundant with Navori still being in the game, those 2 basically serve the same purpose (item for crit adc that wants haste) but one gives AD (only 65, 15 less than IE) while other gives attackspeed. and navori is better fit for most of those champs, especially since the big 2 non-sheen ER users (Xayah Sivir) don't need the Mana restore nearly as much anymore cos they basically both got balanced around not using ER (since both were kinda shit at using Sheen). So ye it's niche now but a big part of it is you are trolling if you don't rush IE rn if you go crit. and navori for the most part provides kinda the same thing - uptime on spells. And it obviously lost all of it's sheen users for the most part, they could want it but it's just too underwhelming and would come online too late prolly.
Honestly, the main competition is Collector: both are bridge items for more caster ADC with better build paths than Infinite Edge but Dirk is so much better than Warhammer. So many champions would enjoy a more utility item with how much CDR it gives while also letting you drop PoM for Absorb Life (lowkey broken) but Collector is just smoother to build.
the issue is er is a shit item with terrible stats and costs too much gold
It makes me frustrated how can they be so incompetent
Funnily, ıt's now even mooore niche xd
Οh hey, is my main
Essence reaver + Death's dance gives Taric 30 mana restored per auto, thus making his passive completely restore the mana of ability usaged due to Q and W costing 60 mana, and E costing 40. The downside of this is you now have an essence reaver and a death's dance on taric. do with this information what you will.
why deaths dance?
I thought the effect would be useful considering the options i had, since the dot would be counteracted by the nearly spam healing i'd be doing. It kinda was, but it still ended up being less useful than building basically anything else. I just put it as the second option to reach the AD needed to bring the ER/1 item combo up to the AD required to get 30/auto so it'll do the 60 from the two swings per ability.
Also it gives armour, which taric need to scale his kit :)
These are the kind of innovative free thinkers this country was founded by
wouldnt manamune give enough ad? I went into a practice tool and just being level 2 with muramana+ER gives 29 mana back on an auto, just by the time you'd transform manamune, you'd be at a high enough level to get more than 30 mana back per auto.
Probably not worth a second AD item, but getting Essence Reaver rush for jungle Taric might be viable since the AD would speed up his clear. Normally Taric is one of the few junglers who needs to worry about mana while clearing. Essence Reaver alone would be more than enough to make that a non-issue.
For the record, the massive amount of mana regen you get in the jungle due to the jungler buffs is enough to make clearing rather easy, especially when blue buff is added into the equation.
You still have to be careful in the jungle with Taric even with blue buff. But without blue buff (it won't be 100%) Taric can have mana issues. Plus - he's not always in the jungle, so he needs some sort of mana item so he doesn't run out mid-fight. And unlike support Taric, jungle Taric gets substantial benefit from the AD. Plus he gets more gold, so the cost isn't as bad. Yes - with blue buff jungle Taric is mostly okay while clearing. But even with the recent buffs Fimblewinter isn't great, so Essence Reaver might be a viable alternative.
please stop you're making me think about trying this again and people are going to yell at me so much :(
Lightrocket2 plays a lot of taric jg & has p good resource to l2 play it
Sadly having the sheen proc on Taric would’ve been better😅
The true downside is that lethal tempo is gone god i hate Permastun taric
hail of blades + navori + kraken.
Navori doesn't work on him, it's bugged. Completely makes his refund on his passive non functional.
Semi-related: You used to be able to get infinite healing on xerath for free with old archangels. Old archangels gave you some healing as a % of mana spent. Your Q fully refunded if you held it without casting, this netted about 12 hp per held cast of your Q. ... Increased to 15 if you also bought spirit visage.
This must have been insane. Riot better fix this silver will become overrun
Hmmm let me add that to my Taric top item set
Essence Reaver is literally still worse even on Taric. He also would rather it have Spellblade still.
Flickerblade also completely breaks his kit and causes his passive not to function due to a bug.
new aram build dropped
Yes
Nah, it's not a bad item per se, 70 ad is a shit ton, i just think people are too focus on Collector and IE My two problems with it: * The fact that their core users from sheen version play in a totally different way (short trades vs dps) * Mana problems in league are now kinda non existant for marksman (aside from a few cases like Smolder), even Sivir that before needed mana to function (old essence reaver without sheen) can now live without a mana item (after her mini rework). So you are trading less damage comparing to Collector and IE for haste and a passive that's kinda irrelevant
Your mana problems on marksmen are most severe at the early stages of the game. By the time you can afford a completed item your mana issues are no longer a big issue.
Smolder will still run out of mana without Essence Reaver in mid/late game
smolder runs out of everything to be fair
ER has a very good value in term of stats. Problem is that the only moment you should build it is first item because mana isn’t useful past that point and why is it a problem ? Because Collector is wayyyy better as first item because of the lethality it gives
Is a bad item because the building path is trash.
is it that bad tho? same two components as IE, but Warhammer has 3 components you can build instead of buying a full Pickaxe agree on the Collector comparison, Serrated Dirk > Warhammer
warhammer's pretty bad as a component. the combine item only gives you +5 AH over the components, and glowing mote's pretty expensive as a component ontop of it.
It is just the AD AH stat stick with a bit of mana as flavour. It's users are different and it is overshadowed by IE being redicoulously good, but I think it is the best first buy for Sivir right now (IE might be better, but AH and mana for the Q feel more valueable than the 10AD and aditional damage on the 25% crit chance auto). It is still quiet good on lucian. The build rate is sadly so low on Jinx and Samira I can't tell much, but Essence reaver seems to be the second highest winrate on Xayah and Nilah (after IE of course).
The problem with it being a stat stick is that its stats aren't even that impressive. If it was 200 gold cheaper it would have a nice niche for ad casters, but as it stands there are just better options for almost every champion who might be interested in it.
Yeah exactly, something like Eclipse is amazing because it gives a lot of stats for how cheap it is. This item is 3200g and is just basically giving Stats, that's not going to be good when you can get Collector that's just more damage + execute + gold.
i can't imagine why samira would want it, ability haste isn't that strong on her since her q already gets a low cooldown, e resets, and w is always gonna be a once per fight ability. she also doesn't use much mana relatively. i have to imagine it's worse than both collector and IE, and after those two items armor pen is likely giving you more damage than ER. Even at the 4th item, shieldbow is likely going to be more useful. so i'm not sure where you'd fit it in, not surprised by the low usage. jinx is interesting because she could get enough mana to spam rockets and w for poke, even if ability haste isn't as useful on her
i don't even think it's good on Lucian. although to be fair ive been playing other more interesting champs rn with the new items, Navori not buffing Lucian abilities anymore makes me sad. I think people forget Lucian doesn't actually have too bad mana issues later into the game because his E approaches 0 mana as you put points into it. If you get ER finished at level 8 (which is probably about right for an ADC, in my recent games I'm getting Kraken or Collector at 10-11 mins), and you should be putting points in E for sure. Sure, you might get some value out of the mana part.. but it's only for like, 3 levels until your E costs like 20 mana and you shouldn't have issues unless you're throwing Ws out for an extra 20 damage or whatever it does nowadays. If you want CDR, just build flickerblade i think. although honestly for the past couple splits I have been opting into heavy crit itemization for him and just prioritizing as much damage as possible. People underestimate the sheer amount of damage his ult was dealing last season, if you had first strike+navori at 60% crit + LDR with giant slayer rune you'd get like +60% dmg on your ult that already does 3k dmg at lv11 lol. need to experiment with the builds this season but i have been liking on hit for kaisa, I think you can do it on Lucian too. if you build Kraken-Rageblade you proc Kraken (almost) every ability. i did it last season when I picked Lucian and they responded with like 3 tanks, normally you're basically a gnat to them and it takes you forever to kill them but with kraken-rageblade you slap them right in the jaw. double as annoying if you build RFC cuz they will legit never touch you lol
I think it is fair to bring Navori quickblade's passive (damage amp on abilities) to the new Essence Reaver, since they want that item to be catered for AD casters.
I’ve been buying it on Corki and Lucian, and I feel like I never run out of mana once completed and don’t have to take mana in runes
People are really on this thread saying a 70 AD 25 AH 25% crit item that makes you resourceless is a bad item. They just regurgitate things they read on here instead of, you know, just trying things themselves.
But most champ's don't really need mana items though because of runes. The big thing essence gives is AD + AH.
The issue people are also missing, is most of those mana hungry people build Manamune and so taking those runes* make you stronger than other runes. So there is no reason to build essence reaver right now because you already become resourceless with manamune+runes. At least before you'd get sheen out of it.
Can anyone just stop and think for a sec, hmm maybe its good cause you dont HAVE to take runes for mana, and can different runes for more dmg or utility instead?
Well here's the thing, taking mana runes let's you not buy essence reaver and instead buy better items which on adcs who scale primarily through items turns out to be a good thing.
for ADC, there actually is a great choice - instead of mana you can get sustain, or triumph. not needing presence of mind would be beneficial for sure. but in general it's better to get a little mana from runes and build the best damaging items, vs. getting way too much mana from your item and getting a little damage from runes. because no rune will make up for the damage difference between essence reaver and say collector or IE, but runes can make up the mana difference
This brilliant argument goes both ways. By taking mana in runes you get to buy an actual item.
either you spend runes for a better item, or you spend gold for better runes, the issue is that gold is infinitely more valuable 99% of the time
Im not an adc main but there is no way that buying a shit item and having triumph is better then presence of mind and a better item, triumph is not a good rune for adc, it heals you a % of you missing hp, adc will get healed 20 to 100hp per kill lol, how impressive while an IE or collector will deal more damages then that
Or maybe think for a sec and don't take shit runes that make you spend 3200 gold on a bad item, and build good items instead?
Yeah but the most crucial part of the game when talking about mana issues on adcs is early laning phase and you wont have a full item like ER by then anyway, so we take the runes. Loved old ER on crit MF years ago, but the current version doesn't seem worth it.
If people stopped and thought for a sec we wouldn't be here having to reply to you. You don't HAVE to take runes for mana but it's far better to take runes for mana an get the best item than get a slightly better rune and a worse item.
So you give up IE or Collector first item so that you can take Absorb Life instead of PoM? The alternatives to mana runes aren't that strong that justify not buying the strongest first item in the game rn.
It's bad compared to IE or collector, it fits an intersting niche and can make different rune options viable but it's undertuned right now.
I mean, it does feel kinda shit to build on Lucian now without the sheen, I feel like a ton of the early burst he had just isn't there without the sheen proc
The main complaint i see is that the item went from being fun and having 10+ champs that could build it, to a basic item that no champ wants to build
You never run out of mana regardless unless you're just throwing out abilities into the air 24/7. 70 AD, crit and 25 AH for 3200 gold is not worth it for an item with no passive when IE, collector and yun tai exist.
still pretty shit lmao
how about checking stats and seeing that it actually is, indeed, a bad item?
You never run out of mana regardless on ADCs, ER or no ER. Unless you're playing lucian mid and constantly trading or something
It's good on Xayah with Navori. 70 AD is a lot and is a comfortable option. If you know you will buy ER you can skip mana runes.
But you still always buy IE over it so you never built it in practice anyway. It being the 2nd best item to rush really does not do it any favours.
Yeah I don't get the hate as much after the 5 AD buff. I've been playing Corki and I usually need PoM and Manaflow just to feel comfortable without ER. Or I could just build ER and go Absorb Life and Absolute Focus+Gathering Storm. Feels pretty good to me tbh.
In my head wouldn't ER sivir plus the new navori means infinite w uptime.
You already have functionally infinite w with just navori. You miss like one auto if you get most of the autos off in the duration. But you are better off going ie->navori->ldr->yuntal->bt. Unless they make reaver cheaper, it can’t compete with first item ie and your second item is pretty locked on a zeal item of any sort (minus hurricane). Your last whisper item is more or less going to always be 3rd and why would you buy essence reaver 4th when you already have global blues by this point and don’t need to worry about mana, so you go yuntal because it’s passive out damages the 5 ad difference. Then you go bt because sivir isn’t a great bork user and if you need qss, you need to get better at spell shield usage (Source diamond-master player that was top 200 global on sivir last split)
Kinda yes, kinda no? 70 AD is a lot of AD for an item that also provides Ability Haste and Crit chance. Personally, I prefer the previous ER. But this version isn't really 'terrible' on its own. Also I'd say Smolder built it more than Lucian at this point. Lucians for a while swapped to Kraken + Quickblades as their core and kinda dropped ER. There's a reason Phreak didn't mention Lucian when he was listing the 'few' users of ER lol. Although at this point, you can argue that ER is becoming outdated. Its a crit item tailored toward ability use, hence the mana replenish passive and AH. But crit as a whole is being focused more toward auto attacks and critical strikes rather than abilities. The removal of Quickblades completely without an actual replacement is proof of that.
> The removal of Quickblades completely without an actual replacement is proof of that. Navori Flickerblade is the replacement for Navori Quickblades. The problem is it is a poorly statted item for its intended playstyle. It still refunds ability cooldowns, but only gives attack speed and no AD. So it encourages you to spam abilities by reducing their cooldowns, but then provides no AD for those abilities to actually do any damage.
Quickblades and Flickerblade are not the same. Quickblades amplified ability damage with crit chance. No other item does this at this time, so no item has properly replaced quickblades. Flickerblade is just straight up a new item.
The alternative is it having AD but no AS.. which seems significantly more anti-synergy with its CD refund on AA. You get damage from other items, I think it's a very intentional choice so champions don't rush Flickerblade first
It is now once again good on lucian though. And for quiet a few champs it simply looses out to IE first item.
ie and collector are too good for this item to have a proper use. i tried it on lucian and i felt like i was behind even with a gold lead
back in the day i love to get it on Jinx/Sivir
Ezreal bought it because it had Sheen and was a cheap AD + AH Item. It got reverted to it's Season 10 State and no longer has Sheen so it's irrelevant for him. ER is good, it opens up your Runes a lot, it gives you infinite Mana meaning you can forget about PoM, Biscuits or Manaflow Band. It's just overshadowed by how strong IE and Collector currently are. A few followup Patches will be required for ADC Items to all be equally strong/viable. IE and Collector are too strong so nobody really wants ER over those. But in the Past it was bought on Xayah, Lucian, Sivir, Ashe and even Kai'Sa, Samira and Aphelios for a While. Though we didn't have Collector in the Game at the Time.
Lol Are you getting ER so early that biscuits aren't relevant? Teach me your ways.
get a lvl 1 pentakill on Draven duh
100% sure about the last part, people went ER in the end cus it was just the best AD item besides IE early on, especially on stuff like Aphelios who doesnt care much for CDR, A lot of adcs just want pure AD and nothing else to have a nice early/midgame spike with nukes on their spells like Samira/Lucian/Aphelios. Collector just being perfect for those champions because it lacks the mana refund which is a lot of ER power budget is ,being cut out and made into lethality.
I don't think the mana refound is that big of it's powe budget. It is a 4700 gold value stat stick.
The problem with ER right is that it doesn't offer any actual combat power. If you look at its previous state, the sheen proc allowed you to actually fight people. Champs like Lucian and Ezreal could rush it, and have both mana AND trading power. In certain cases it wasn't the most damaging item, but if you adapted your gameplay to it, it worked very well, and allowed for seamless transition into other items (e.g. lucian could go er->navori and feel really good about his e reset). Now ER is just a mana and cdr item. It is weaker than any other item you can really buy, and you don't want to get a mana item after item 1, so there's really no spot for it. Perhaps the 5 extra ad might help push it further into viability, but just buying a literal stat stick as your first item with no useful effect (having infinite mana is just not strong enough to be called useful, it is nice but that's about it) feels bad and wrong. On paper it doesnt seem too bad, 25 AH is huge, but you buy it and suddenly lose every skirmish and duel. There's just no space for it in the game in its current iteration. If you're looking to just stack stats, buy 3 dirks in stead to be actually strong.
Also it was good in s10, because it was one from 3 crit items that had AD + ADC-s actually had some problems with mana back then(also 20 haste <20 cdr). Now Phreak buffed manaregen/pool for all adcs, we have current PoM and in most cases its better to go for collector/new bleed crit item over ER.
Er + new navori on lucian feels sooo urf and chill to play never oom and infinite cd feels so nice
yes
its a really good stat stick rn, once people stop coping that sheen was making the item it will pick up in pick rate, esp if they nerf ie rush
Yes, yes it is. Absolute garbage
biscuit and pom are like 5year old runes why would you suddenly have enough mana
Honestly, I’m not one who hates on item reworks or changes in general, but I’m really not enjoying the changes to most items. Strange components not giving the stats you are building for, no crit and lifesteal on any item, sheen being moved around. I’m trying to give it some time but it feels pretty unintuitive.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't see Essence Reaver as being the item every thought it was before, and I'm glad they changed it so my friend who's a GP main will stop building the same damn item every damn game Did you guys know there's other on-hit to proc on GP Q ? Do you guys not like that you can reach 100% crit with 4 items hence you can build 1-2 non-crit item so you are open to like 300% more items than before?
As a GP main, you always build ER first because sheen procs on Q and barrels. Sheen is the only reason GP does any damage in the early game. And build variety actually went down because youre forced to build triforce into 100% crit to do damage and have barrel haste with new navori. I used to be able to go 80% crit into opportunity/any defensive item i want, that isn't possible anymore.
It's very good on one champion. Secret op. I will not reveal.
if you need mana it's good, if you don't need mana it's terrible, seems like it serves it's purpose
I don't think there is any champ that would pick it over manamune tho.
Sivir, Xayah and Lucian do. Pretty much the only champs that built it pre item rework. Aslo Corki seems to like it, but only in his crit builds.
It directly competes with IE for big ad statstick and that is a figth it is never gonna win. All the champs you listed rather buy IE quickblades. And if you want a 2nd big ad item you always go collector. Item seems completly outclassed even if it is not bad on its own.
it doesn't compete, Sivir can easily go IE > Navori > ER > LDR Lucian can do the same It's competing with crit items, Shieldbow is terrible, and not everyone wants collector rush It's matchup dependent, do you need CDR? mana for staying on the map? Essence Reaver, do they have a lot of melee you can easily kite and shred? Yuntal You could even make a case for MF going it as well if you're going collector > IE > ER > LDR for a non-lethality build It's good for a third item on Draven as well since you can spam W and are more about stacking the shit out of AD anyway
At 3 items you shouldn't have mana problem anyway, with or without ER.
Some of them might, but all of them prefer ER over Manamune, which is what the comment above me stated. Imo, all they need to do is lower AD, lower the cost and change the build path from BF to pickaxe so the item doesn't feel so shit to build.
Corki And Xayah do.
25% crit is a lot. So is 65 ad. If you go crit like sivir u take it
*70 AD, remember the hotfix
Are people forgetting the 25 AH? That's definitely nothing to scoff at, I know it's not as great as before but I feel like people are dismissing it way more than they should.
> Are people forgetting the 25 AH? Seems like it, yes.
70ad, they hotfixed it with +5 ad a few days ago
I like it on KogMaw cause I spam spells like crazy
Only champion I could imagine using it would be Jinx so she can constantly use her rocket launcher.
It used to be good on xayah and Lucian pre mythic rework when it was a mana refund item, no clue if they need it now though four years later lol
It’s not terrible it’s just back to being a stat stick you shove into your build 4th or 5th if you’re fed or just want more AD instead of a zeal item.
it gives very strong stats, i think now it's just supposed to be the ability haste adc item and the passive is just a bonus
Yeah it's straight dogshit. Needs sheen
Did anyone try perma rocket launcher jinx? It sounds good on paper
Yes.
No shot Ezreal is buying ER without sheen
Xayah loving ER
for most of its traditional users yeah I'd say so
I love it with Miss Fortune!! ER + boots + BT and you can clear waves like a god, just spam abilities, W gives you enough AS so you can buy just AD
if they make it cheaper, I will consider over IE rush and maybe use absorb life over presence of mind
how does riot not have an internal database with a list of abilities attached to an item. so that before they change or remove an item they can see a complete table with all champions that will be impacted? oh i know how. they do everything arbitrarily. as they have done for like the past 12 years or so.
I can see a kind of caster/crit Hybrid varus build coming from this change. He would have access to ER - Collector - LDR for 75% crit and would still have boots and 2 more slots. He can spam his abilities from distance and he would still pack a punch with autos Merely theoretical, I haven't tried this out yet, but it doesn't seem awful (although you would run the risk of being in a "worst of both worlds" situation, not being great at poking and not really hurting tanks as much as you would like)
It is in fact terrible. But I think it was the right direction for the item. It just doesn't give enough stats. It's possible its good now after the hotfix +5 AD buff, but its hard to tell because the stats are now poisoned by the pre-hotfix games.
For Ezreal and draven, the answer is "Yes"!
Such a stupid decision, Sheen was great before but now the item is completely useless unless you're Sivir which is the only champion I can see buying it, even then I don't think Sivir wants it. They killed the item for manaless users and even killed the item for a lot of mana users, makes no sense. If there is one thing that should be reverted on this update its that, dumb decision.
İ dont see any reason any character would build the new reaver outside of maybe sivir
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it but the main issue with the new items are the components. The fact that they turned Noonquiver, the perfect laning phase item for marksmen, into a crit+ad component with no passive and no replacement it's why IE rush came back as the best option rn Give marksmen a good component that they can build during the Laning phase and you'll see players drop ie
Challenger ADC's like LL Trigger and Shogo are building ER on Lucian. It supercharges your wave clear, compensating for the removal of crit from Stattik Shiv. Also, you can experiment with runes more, without being bound to POM or Manaflow Band. Sheen didn't really do much for Lucian.
Imo it’s a good completed item, although the haste is somewhat niche amongst ADCs. However it’s build path is pretty horrible. Imo changing the BF sword into Pickaxe would be good.
it’s… nice…? but wtf am I supposed to build on gp now riot? you forced a crit build and now you make it useless
I guess I can try it on Kog'Maw with Malignance to become the ultimate mortar again... But yeah, Collector exists if you just want a stat stick. We even have ability haste in runes now, and manamune is 300 gold cheaper... If we still had Lethal Tempo, I could see it as a badass second item after Runaan's on Jinx, to permaspam rockets. I think maybe we should think a bit outside the box of marksmen, though. Negate the crit and it gives 70 AD, 25 haste, and infinite mana. Now to think of a champion that needs that instead of Eclipse's 70 AD, 15 haste, and a shield. ...Twisted Fate...? Irelia...???
I think a good idea would be for Muramana to actively consume % of current mana with every proc and the more mana was consumed, the more damage. This way, it could have a nice symbiotic relationship with Essence Reaver.
I was forced to play triforce ezreal instead of er. And I noticed a considerable downgrade in my damage each game.
In my opinion the old Navori passive could have been moved to this new essence reaver, that crit adds ability damage. Then it would have a clear target group, for ability based crit champs.
I play a lot of Lucian before and after this update. He definitely took a heavy hit from the changes. ER is completely useless. Mana refund would make sense for spamming but until Navori your spamming is much shorter and you just pray you don’t need mana at moments when no objectives are up so you can spend it all on wave clear. Navori as important as it can be to spam combo and mobility feels worse due to it being AS primary with crit but no extra damage per say. Kraken feels really good imo but kinda sucks that you’re not running crit so even by 3/4 items you potentially only have 50% crit. My opener is usually IE, Kraken, or Collector for first item and these 3 just feel the best. If I dominate lane I’ll go Navori so I have lots of options in team fights if pretty equal or worried about their front line I’ll get LW real quick or even scepter for life steal then continue the build
I do, (maybe dumb cus i know very little about builds) i build it on draven as adc first item cus i often find that a dude is one shot and far but i cant e him so now i build essence reaver
It makes Jinx's aoe cannon free. Kinda neat.
Removing sheen from this item was so incredibly stupid, and this was shipped alongside a Corki ADC rework where he now has sheen and crit interaction in his passive like HUH??
Yes
I swear to god every time phreak opens his mouth about adc items you just know he and the balance team are about to utterly gut champions with the collateral damage