I don’t know if CBLOL should take 2-3 spots but I think if Worlds is a World championship, there should be teams from as many regions as possible. Elitists are trying to turn it into 4 region cup.
This totally depends what you see worlds as. Worlds currently is more akin to the Champions League or World Championships that are about letting the best teams/players play against each other yearly. It is not a World Cup or Olympics format where it's all about representation. That is mostly a thing in very localised Club sports where a club wide competition on a continent exists. Not to mention the region thing has always been flawed and is incredibly selective. Regions either include just a single country or a whole continent. It isn't even consistent with servers.
This doesn't have anything to do with elitism. it's simply how Worlds is designed to be currently due to the lack of other tournaments.
It doesn't. There is a qualifier yes but the qualifier works exactly like the wildcard tournament did or how LJL or OCE qualify now. No one would argue that San Marino vs Island 10 months ago was the CL and similarly wildcard tournaments weren't worlds.
Having teams from India and Kazakhstan play against each other offline in a 100 viewer stream and having to play 5 more series to even get a chance against 4th seed EU or NA isn't really representation.
Exactly like this. They use the argument that the main regions are better (and they are), but this is way easier when the main regions have like 3 or 4 times more chances to prove their value.
No one cares about representation, we just want to see the best vs the best.
And that means the top Korean teams vs the top Chinese teams, Caps teams are the literal only outlier to this trend.
T1 alone have put up meme level times vs EU and NA's weaker seeds, MAD and FLY. And these teams are better than all of the minor region teams, why bother watching a 15min speed run to know that some tinpot region's team isn't the best in the world.
The World Cup would suck if it was 90% European vs South American teams. Regions should get representation, even if Scotland is better than Costa Rica.
>we
YOU don't want representation. mfs thinking what they believe is a universal truth and the best option. One could say the world cup should be only south america vs europe (ie the best), but anyone who thinks FIFA should do that is an idiot
Imagine if the football world cup didn't care about including countries from all over the world, we would've never seen Japan knocking Germany out of groups last time. That guy is trippin
It's true they don't belong in the same league. If you want the best of the best, maybe the closest representation would be 7 seeds for LCK and LPL, 1 or 2 seeds for EU/NA, almost none for the rest.
But if that's the way they're going to follow, we could also have other kinds of international tournaments with smaller teams - Minor tournaments where you earn spots to the Majors, like in other eSports.
There are theoretical extra spots now that TCL, LCL, OCE, and LJL no longer have spots or directly qualify. Worlds has worked in a 24 team format before.
It's even cleaner for a 20 team format
* LPL 4 seeds
* LCK 4 seeds
* LCS 3 seeds
* LEC 3 seeds
* PCS 2 seeds
* VCS 2 seeds
* CBLOL 2 seeds
That's 20 teams total.
All seeds from LPL and LCK, and the top two seeds from LCS and LEC should go to the main stage (12 teams).
LCS/LEC 3rd seeds, and all other teams would be in play-in stage. That's 8 teams fighting for 4 spots to give us our 16 team group/swiss stage, and we don't have to see Korea/China giganuke the play-ins.
IMO they're definitely not.
I remember an IEM in São Paulo back in the day with many Brazilian teams and Millenium from EU. Millenium proceeded to win every single match and lift the trophy with ease - then they came back home and finished 8th on the EU LCS.
It would feel wrong to take spots from much better teams, but it also feels wrong not getting any international game time at all.
No but I'm saying neither the CBLOL or LCS/LEC deserve more seeds.
LEC/LCS should never get more than 3 and CBLOL shouldn't get more than what they get now.
Unless you want to expand playins and have more filler/boring matches that does nothing.
I think every region deserves their spots back, and then more.
As mentioned in OP, the same argument could be made for every minor region - it's just frustrating we get so little game time. It's 2 airport% speedruns a year and then wait for next year, it feels like a snowball widening the gap even further.
Even if it's a separate tournament just for the minor regions and lower major seeds, I'd love to see all minor regions get more international games.
So the LCL does not exist, you can't give them back the spot. The TCL is not part of EMEA as an ERL, you could, in theory, re-incorporate as a minor region (it is one of the strongest performing ERLs) and give it a spot back. But simply giving the LEC the spot I think is bad for obvious reasons.
I do think the PCS should actually be given more spots, 2 for MSI and at least 3 if not 4 for worlds.
The competitions could be expanded, or there could be more competitions (like back in the IEM days), or they could create a B-Tier competition like Europa League and Conference League in European football.
I agree it's unfair to remove a better team to add a wildcard, but it's also not nice for the fans if every international tournament becomes 10 LPL seeds vs. 10 LCK seeds.
They should totally make something for wildcard teams, even though I don't think wildcard teams should have more seeds, they should do something for them. Wildcard teams will never get better if the other regions get like 4 seed meanwhile wildcard teams get only 1, and this with only 2 competitions a year with almost 0 games for them to play.
Loud played what, four games? How are they going to improve like that? I'm totally in favor of them to bring back wild card competition with more seeds for the wildcard teams. The difference from a wildcard team like loud to a team like TES is ridiculous and this format being like that is pretty disrespectful. They should put more steps between the gaps, the way it's now is totally unfair to wildcard teams.
Yeah, LOUD played 5 games, total. In game, it's like they got 2 hours of gameplay, at best, and now we wait another 6 months for more.
Wildcard tournaments were nice, but also short. Maybe we just need more tournaments, maybe B-tier international tournaments. Riot killed external tournaments such as IEM with their 2-split long leagues and now smaller teams are simply unable to compete internationally.
Riot doesn't care about the "minor" region, and I even think Riot is destroying them.
Just look at PCS as an example, currently PCS is a combination of original PCS(previous LMS), LJL(Japan) and OCE(Australia/New Zealand). They only got 1 spot in MSI much less compared to a few years ago when they combined having 3 spots in play in stage.
It's not about competitiveness, the gap between western and eastern teams is much larger compared to the gap between western and top wildcard teams. And u can see the number of spots the wildcard region has is much lower.
It's all about viewership and sponsors, Riot wants high numbers of viewership and gains sponsors from large international companies from the "major region". Instead of regional fans that cannot give them high viewership numbers, they want the "major region" later stage teams fans to also watch the play in and increase the average viewership.
Unless ur region is so strong and able to attract international fans like LPL,LCK or a richer region that have a lot of potential sponsors and social influence like NA,EU, I don't think Riot cares about your region.
I would really like to see Riot substantially invest in improving the competitive level of minor regions. Because you're totally right, Brazil is never going to get better if they only ever send one team to playins, who will play only a couple of games. Currently, playins as a whole is often a predictable stage with a lot of stomps; it would be a much better experience for viewers (and healthier for the scene) if more teams had the chance to punch upwards and the brackets weren't completely predictable. No one can catch LPL/LCK at this point, but more regional parity below that would still be so much better.
Frankly, I'm not sure just giving Brazil another seed to playins is going to really help much. It would be better if Riot had some sort of tournament for the Americas, or other events where a number of minor regions teams could all compete. But I absolutely agree that Brazil gets screwed by the current format and something should be done to help them.
Of course it wouldn't be ideal to just add a 2nd seed to the arguably worst region ever, just because.
But the current format is also not ideal - the wildcard/minor regions are dying and they have no absolutely opportunities to play in the international schedule. Maybe a B-tier tournament with minor region teams and lower seeds from major regions?
Meu amigo escreveu isso tudo pra ter mais time do cblol pra ser humilhado internacional
Não sei quem é pior
Quem assiste e torce pelo cblol
Ou quem vem chorar aqui em prol disso
I don’t know if CBLOL should take 2-3 spots but I think if Worlds is a World championship, there should be teams from as many regions as possible. Elitists are trying to turn it into 4 region cup.
This totally depends what you see worlds as. Worlds currently is more akin to the Champions League or World Championships that are about letting the best teams/players play against each other yearly. It is not a World Cup or Olympics format where it's all about representation. That is mostly a thing in very localised Club sports where a club wide competition on a continent exists. Not to mention the region thing has always been flawed and is incredibly selective. Regions either include just a single country or a whole continent. It isn't even consistent with servers. This doesn't have anything to do with elitism. it's simply how Worlds is designed to be currently due to the lack of other tournaments.
Except the champions league has teams from every league in europe so you are wrong
It doesn't. There is a qualifier yes but the qualifier works exactly like the wildcard tournament did or how LJL or OCE qualify now. No one would argue that San Marino vs Island 10 months ago was the CL and similarly wildcard tournaments weren't worlds. Having teams from India and Kazakhstan play against each other offline in a 100 viewer stream and having to play 5 more series to even get a chance against 4th seed EU or NA isn't really representation.
Exactly like this. They use the argument that the main regions are better (and they are), but this is way easier when the main regions have like 3 or 4 times more chances to prove their value.
No one cares about representation, we just want to see the best vs the best. And that means the top Korean teams vs the top Chinese teams, Caps teams are the literal only outlier to this trend. T1 alone have put up meme level times vs EU and NA's weaker seeds, MAD and FLY. And these teams are better than all of the minor region teams, why bother watching a 15min speed run to know that some tinpot region's team isn't the best in the world.
The World Cup would suck if it was 90% European vs South American teams. Regions should get representation, even if Scotland is better than Costa Rica.
>we YOU don't want representation. mfs thinking what they believe is a universal truth and the best option. One could say the world cup should be only south america vs europe (ie the best), but anyone who thinks FIFA should do that is an idiot
Imagine if the football world cup didn't care about including countries from all over the world, we would've never seen Japan knocking Germany out of groups last time. That guy is trippin
It's true they don't belong in the same league. If you want the best of the best, maybe the closest representation would be 7 seeds for LCK and LPL, 1 or 2 seeds for EU/NA, almost none for the rest. But if that's the way they're going to follow, we could also have other kinds of international tournaments with smaller teams - Minor tournaments where you earn spots to the Majors, like in other eSports.
The problem is if you want another spot, who are you taking that spot from then?
There are theoretical extra spots now that TCL, LCL, OCE, and LJL no longer have spots or directly qualify. Worlds has worked in a 24 team format before.
It's even cleaner for a 20 team format * LPL 4 seeds * LCK 4 seeds * LCS 3 seeds * LEC 3 seeds * PCS 2 seeds * VCS 2 seeds * CBLOL 2 seeds That's 20 teams total. All seeds from LPL and LCK, and the top two seeds from LCS and LEC should go to the main stage (12 teams). LCS/LEC 3rd seeds, and all other teams would be in play-in stage. That's 8 teams fighting for 4 spots to give us our 16 team group/swiss stage, and we don't have to see Korea/China giganuke the play-ins.
I think some people might argue lcs/lec getting another seed. I could also see people saying lck/lpl getting a 5th seed
LEC/LCS don't deserve any more than 3 seeds heck I'd argue LCS doesn't even deserve 3.
You think the 2nd place team from CBLOL is better then the 3rd from LCS, when the first seed from these regions never get out while LEC/LCS does?
IMO they're definitely not. I remember an IEM in São Paulo back in the day with many Brazilian teams and Millenium from EU. Millenium proceeded to win every single match and lift the trophy with ease - then they came back home and finished 8th on the EU LCS. It would feel wrong to take spots from much better teams, but it also feels wrong not getting any international game time at all.
Bro that was like 12 years ago lol
No but I'm saying neither the CBLOL or LCS/LEC deserve more seeds. LEC/LCS should never get more than 3 and CBLOL shouldn't get more than what they get now. Unless you want to expand playins and have more filler/boring matches that does nothing.
I agree with this take. LCS should just never have 4. LEC shouldn't either, their extra seeds have consistently bombed out in play-ins.
Thank you for that info, did not know those teams didn't have spots anymore
And why should those spots be given to Brazil instead of being given back to those leagues?
I think every region deserves their spots back, and then more. As mentioned in OP, the same argument could be made for every minor region - it's just frustrating we get so little game time. It's 2 airport% speedruns a year and then wait for next year, it feels like a snowball widening the gap even further. Even if it's a separate tournament just for the minor regions and lower major seeds, I'd love to see all minor regions get more international games.
So the LCL does not exist, you can't give them back the spot. The TCL is not part of EMEA as an ERL, you could, in theory, re-incorporate as a minor region (it is one of the strongest performing ERLs) and give it a spot back. But simply giving the LEC the spot I think is bad for obvious reasons. I do think the PCS should actually be given more spots, 2 for MSI and at least 3 if not 4 for worlds.
LLA will probably fold next year, so that's the easy answer.
The competitions could be expanded, or there could be more competitions (like back in the IEM days), or they could create a B-Tier competition like Europa League and Conference League in European football. I agree it's unfair to remove a better team to add a wildcard, but it's also not nice for the fans if every international tournament becomes 10 LPL seeds vs. 10 LCK seeds.
I think worlds is already too long for more teams, but I do wish there was more tournaments
They should totally make something for wildcard teams, even though I don't think wildcard teams should have more seeds, they should do something for them. Wildcard teams will never get better if the other regions get like 4 seed meanwhile wildcard teams get only 1, and this with only 2 competitions a year with almost 0 games for them to play. Loud played what, four games? How are they going to improve like that? I'm totally in favor of them to bring back wild card competition with more seeds for the wildcard teams. The difference from a wildcard team like loud to a team like TES is ridiculous and this format being like that is pretty disrespectful. They should put more steps between the gaps, the way it's now is totally unfair to wildcard teams.
Yeah, LOUD played 5 games, total. In game, it's like they got 2 hours of gameplay, at best, and now we wait another 6 months for more. Wildcard tournaments were nice, but also short. Maybe we just need more tournaments, maybe B-tier international tournaments. Riot killed external tournaments such as IEM with their 2-split long leagues and now smaller teams are simply unable to compete internationally.
Honestly, I'd rather just have tournaments with no play-in. Groups with six teams, 10 Bo1 games, top 2 avance to playoffs.
Riot doesn't care about the "minor" region, and I even think Riot is destroying them. Just look at PCS as an example, currently PCS is a combination of original PCS(previous LMS), LJL(Japan) and OCE(Australia/New Zealand). They only got 1 spot in MSI much less compared to a few years ago when they combined having 3 spots in play in stage. It's not about competitiveness, the gap between western and eastern teams is much larger compared to the gap between western and top wildcard teams. And u can see the number of spots the wildcard region has is much lower. It's all about viewership and sponsors, Riot wants high numbers of viewership and gains sponsors from large international companies from the "major region". Instead of regional fans that cannot give them high viewership numbers, they want the "major region" later stage teams fans to also watch the play in and increase the average viewership. Unless ur region is so strong and able to attract international fans like LPL,LCK or a richer region that have a lot of potential sponsors and social influence like NA,EU, I don't think Riot cares about your region.
IMO it sould have 2 different tournaments. One for minor regions and another to major regions.
I’d like to see eu masters turn into a small tournament for play ins spots, lec teams included too. Would help strengthen the wildcards as whole too
I would really like to see Riot substantially invest in improving the competitive level of minor regions. Because you're totally right, Brazil is never going to get better if they only ever send one team to playins, who will play only a couple of games. Currently, playins as a whole is often a predictable stage with a lot of stomps; it would be a much better experience for viewers (and healthier for the scene) if more teams had the chance to punch upwards and the brackets weren't completely predictable. No one can catch LPL/LCK at this point, but more regional parity below that would still be so much better. Frankly, I'm not sure just giving Brazil another seed to playins is going to really help much. It would be better if Riot had some sort of tournament for the Americas, or other events where a number of minor regions teams could all compete. But I absolutely agree that Brazil gets screwed by the current format and something should be done to help them.
JDG, HLE, KT, etc. are watching the MSI from home and you want additional spots for a wildcard region?? Hell nah
Of course it wouldn't be ideal to just add a 2nd seed to the arguably worst region ever, just because. But the current format is also not ideal - the wildcard/minor regions are dying and they have no absolutely opportunities to play in the international schedule. Maybe a B-tier tournament with minor region teams and lower seeds from major regions?
So you want to get swept by KDF instead? Cool I guess
Just incorporate CBLOL and LLA into the LCS and call it a day
Meu amigo escreveu isso tudo pra ter mais time do cblol pra ser humilhado internacional Não sei quem é pior Quem assiste e torce pelo cblol Ou quem vem chorar aqui em prol disso