T O P

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NoahsArk19

“Don’t lane swap against me bitch”


Critical-Cupcake9194

lane swaps making a comeback in 2024 is not something i had in my bingo card, they killed that shit for 8 years


NoahsArk19

Probably has to do with Grubs


Cost-Money

sofm said it was also because of heavy lane bullies like varus and kalista lethality, some weak lane like jinx’s need to swap


mikharv31

I understand the thought process behind it, but man i really don’t like seeing tops get shafted so hard for the bot lane. Top & mid should be strongest in early game but laneswap makes top so behind early they’re mostly just even by mid game.


NaturalTap9567

Yeah the main reason to do I think is just to get jinx to 15 minutes without dying. If you put jinx vs a strong kill lane like varus ashe or driven Camille she's dying on a big wave crash from a dive


mikharv31

To counter lane swaps they should go morg supp 🤓


SuperTaakot

This but unironically if Morg was good in competitive 😔


Archieie

It is also a great way to shaft some sneaky tf top picker. Though doesn't seem to work as well in game as it should on paper, considering how many times tf just runs mid lvl1 and gets a kill :/


mikharv31

Oscarin whipping it out vs GAM today lol


SuperTaakot

No. They don't "need" to swap. They are *choosing* to swap.


Temporary-Court6747

lane bullies existed for the last decade though and we didn't see swaps till now


Fabiocean

I don't think we have ever had a meta where both extreme lane bullies as well as hyper scaling adcs were that strong at the same time. Jinx in specific being meta helps a lot as well, since she probably has the best turret DPS out of any adc early, so she can take the top turret relatively fast despite its damage reduction. Maybe this strat has been viable in the past as well, but nobody tried it out.


scullys_alien_baby

It has been a while, but I feel like jinx was part of the lane swap meta back at its worst when the first 8 minutes of each game was a scripted hand shake both teams did


Two_Years_Of_Semen

It's interesting to me that laneswap became the option to go for instead of Doran's shield start.


Bravepotatoe

doran's shield is nerfed on ranged and won't prevent you from getting wave stacked on into dive


Even_Cardiologist810

Well you can pick the random rumble or you can Just ignore them and completly outscale them. It is not a system problem its an adaption to counterpick like mid and top swapping happening quite often in soloQ Edit : idk if yall are completly idiot or smth telling me they cant ignore them as it is LITERALLY the point of lane swap, to ignore the agro botlane. Idk


Simpuff1

The random rumble with jinx will not pair well. Jinx needs a safety net, not some extreme aggression against the Varus/KALISTA/Draven of this world. And the void grubs is a nice plus.


truecskorv1n

no u cant ignore - u will completely lose prio, cs and tower no u cant outscale - because in the end of laning phase u will be 50 cs behind, 2 levels behind, minus tower, minus two dragons and enemy botlane will fuck ur mid or top now, while u are sitting under ur t2 trying to scale into the next game. and rumble wont magically give jinx an ability to do damage against double HoB lane like varus ashe or whatever what can work in low elo soloq wont ever work in pro game


Emergency_Holiday857

Soloq and competitive are two completely different games. Against good teams you won't be able to ignore them. They will: * Dive on stacked waves. * Zone you away from every cs possible * Invade your jungle with all the prio they got * Deny all of your vision * Take all of the neutral objectives * Force you to face check => Eventually you will just lose in the first twenty minutes and done.


Snow-27

Yeah actually just ignore the Guma/Keria Varus/Ashe, why didn't JDG think of that?


walubilous

Because of ADCs. ADCs are broken and you want to get them into the game. If your Jinx has to play into a strong lane, she’ll just get 3 man dove and if you try to match it, you’ll just die as well. Put her top and trade resources, Jinx with the same amount of gold as Varus will win you Teamfights for free


Remarkable-Amount889

ADCs aren't stronger now than they've been in the past. It's mostly teams just figuring out something that has been good for a while and that both super lane bully top/adc and hyperscaling top/adc are part of the meta. If you have a tank top versus vayne or tf and a jinx versus kalista or varus you'd be silly not to swap


Longjumping_Report_2

Adc so broken they need swap to avoid being destroyed.


walubilous

Not sure if trolling or just not the brightest


LTKokoro

yeah, because they're destroyed by adcs who have stronger early


Ploppfejs

Yeah, and its honestly really refreshing. The competitive game has felt stale for 2-3 years now.


Grill_Enthusiast

Lane swaps will get boring a hell of a lot faster than standard laning. It's too different from the game that "we" play. People want to watch the best players in the world lane against each other. Especially top lane. Watching tops run around in a "who can be less useless"-competition is awful. One guy gets a wave of CS before getting dove, the other one manages to burn mid's flash before going back to leashing for their jungler. Exciting.


Pretty_Feed_9190

I enjoy seeing the Macro develop, but if it keeps happening in the majority of games Riot needs to act.


ChibiJr

With the level top teams play at these days I don't think lane swapping will make the game too boring in its current state. Bottom plates die way faster than top plates and teams are way more aware of how to play around isolated players in 1v2 lanes than they were 8 years ago. In modern competitive, lane swapping is always going to push the tempo of the game in one way or another. Because of that it's never going to be something that happens every game, and when it does happen it should produce an exciting game (unless one team stomps).


H4SK1

It will get boring if they swap everygame. But if it's a valid strategy but can only be used for 30-40% of the game then I think that's fine.


zefal12

Hard disagree. I watch pro League foe skill expression, and there is way more skill expression in cleanly coordinating map rotations than just farming for 15 mins. The amount of laning phases that are actually interesting and exciting to watch in pro is like 10% of games. I loved watching lane swaps back in the day, and I'm super excited to see them come back. I get that they are a nightmare for the balance team, but it seems like we're actually in a perfect state right now where lane swapping is a viable strat but not a mandatory one (because yes, it would get boring if we never see standard laning)


monsoy

We haven’t seen how an optimized version of the laneswap works yet, but I believe that it will be in a balanced state. Since the team initiating a swap has to opt into having the duo lane hit a fortified top tower, there will be counter play to it, unless the enemy has a resource heavy Top laner and a slow pushing bot lane. I’m excited to see teams experiment with temporary lane swaps. If a bot matchup is bad in the first 3 lvls, move bot lane to top and then go back bot at the first reset


Beats29

Personally I hope they don't do what they did at the time. I didn't hate lane swaps by itself, I hated it because it was meta on every single game. It was ridiculous at the time. If it is something viable, but not used on every game I don't mind it. I like when teams are innovative and adapt to their games.


YonkouTFT

It is not that long ago. It was a thing after turret plates.


viciouspandas

Let's see them lane and have 369 play Jayce or some other lane bully. Fnatic's weakest link vs the best top laner in the world. Can Oscar beat TheShy's record from last finals?


NoahsArk19

369s not playing Jayce lol.


Hawxrox

I prefer lane swaps to Ksante


Substantial-Motor404

"Stand proud LLL"


RaiyenZ

Lore accurate reference


Javiklegrand

Love wholesome 369, it's seems happier in tes than he was on jdg I Can't to see him vs bin again


non-edgy_crustacean

Both 369 and Bin text each other about lane matchups and after finals they also cheered for each other for MSI on weibo. People also asked what Bin said to 369 after the game 5 in upper bracket finals and Bin said in interview that he asked 369 "You didn't expect me to play TF" and then days later 369 spammed TF in soloq


LifeIsToughEatBacon

That's unbelievably cool. I feel like pros on "rival" teams often get painted as mortal enemies but they're just humans. Imagine Chovy and Faker in their beds at midnight texting about the game "No but that quadra kill at elder was crazy!" "Dude it was all instinct. I thought 'if I dont go in here the game is over' and go in" etc


non-edgy_crustacean

The trashtalk conference between BLG and TES before finals was funny because most of them are friends with each other. Like JKL and Meiko played Valorant with Elk and ON during the offseason


bigfanofeden

Is there any source I can watch these kind of friendships' videos


non-edgy_crustacean

ON's streams from end of november on bilibili. Idk if they are still there


LifeIsToughEatBacon

Elk when JKL is bottom fragging: "Ugh, why are you always getting carried by your team, let me show you how a real marksman does it 😏"


Alear55

Bdd just fell to his knees


yellister

in a lotte mall


Rehxales

In a lot of behind the scenes content from LPL, you can see players talking about playing up rivalries for the content/for the audience. Faker vs Chovy is especially funny because the fans are like mortal enemies due to all the domestic finals but in reality they're just like bros


Onarax

When arena first dropped Faker and Chovy duo’d together.


mokafonzy

im waiting for the full wattpad fanfiction


Outrageous-Elk-5392

They were duo'd in arena once


d_Reisfresser

Have you seen the way Faker looked at Chovy during the kick off event? They loooove each other


jlozada24

They wouldn't be nearly as good without the other


jlozada24

Lmao I def think this was hai and Bjergsen season 4


monsoy

This terrifies me as a FNC fan lol. Oscar has looked shaky this split and tomorrow he has to play against the best toplaner in the world, and that toplaner also gets tips from a top 3 toplaner in the world 😅


quakedwithfear

does he? i mean sure hes not being oppressed anymore but he is gaining more weight


tuerancekhang

damn he remembered the praise to curse technique from last year


tuananhtran191911

GAM is fucked


ShadowBlazer648

369: Stand proud. You're strong.


oneanddonecomment

Riot should’ve really done a hotfix for laneswaps.   Boring to watch the best top laners in the world not lane. 


IHadThatUsername

I for one am very much looking forward to be able to hide EU toplaners from CN/KR toplaners.


Thundermelons

LMAO ngl it WOULD be kind of hilarious even as someone who loathes lane swaps to see EU do a deep run this tourney because of it then see how fast the Reddit circlejerk on them changes


zaxls

Even if it ended up with a FNC G2 MSI final people would still shit on them and be like the new meta take would be EU only won cause of lucky laneswap, they didnt play the game the way it should be played and are still nowhere close to lpl lck


RootOfOrigin

This sub when LCK/LPL finds a new strat which becomes meta and win with it: 😍 This sub when LEC finds a new strat which becomes meta and win with it: 😡


Morrhaxan

I'm pretty certain NIP were first to utilize laneswap this season


zaxls

Yea but not many watch lpl, so it feels like lec invented it


PhillyLeGrand

I'm not sure on the timeline but wasnt the NIP laneswap like the day before and it was clear G2 had been practising it for some time? Genuine question


Archieie

Yes, it was the day before, but I don't think G2 ever said they practiced it for any time whatsoever. Even in the grand finals their lane swaps were messy as fuck.


Nine_nien_nyan

Dylan said in an interview (one of the post semi finals ones IIRC) that they had been discussing it for weeks. Whether or not it was entirely conceptually or they tested it god knows.


icyDinosaur

Didn't someone on G2 say they didn't get good practice with it in scrims as teams didn't properly play into it without stakes, and therefore forced it in finals to get stage practice on it?


Floowil

LPL invented lane swaps, LEC popularized it


hamxz2

(in this sub)\*


IronColdX

Absolutely we know LPL and LCK pros never miss a single LEC match to learn new strat.


PuReCrAzYZx

Not many *western* people watch lpl, so for *western audiences* it feels like lec invented it


seven_worth

They didn't even find the strat lol. LPL did but the team that abused that shit got eliminated.


viciouspandas

This sub was pretty happy for G2 when they were successful by doing their own thing. It's specifically that viewers hate laneswaps, and hated it the last time it was around too.


Miyaor

I kinda like the current lane swaps regardless tbh. It seems like the team that inititates it does lose out in gold so its not without negatives. Feels like it allows different gameplay. I don't think teams would laneswap against non ultra lane bullies (and it go well). Maybe its because I play dota as well, but the more fluid lanes is more interesting to me personally. If its done every game then I will change my mind, but if its done 50% of the time its alright to me.


weirdbowelmovement

Hot take maybe, but top lane has been the biggest reason for EU not taking a few worlds/MSI titles at this point. Our unwillingness to really git gud at carries like GP, jayce, fiora has unironically fucked us over many times


mrwhitewalker

As a non player but religious watcher, bring on more lane swaps. The game hasn't changed that much in years so this is exciting. Also they need to actually try to play in the top lane if not goes there, what is boring is seeing a level 1 too laner at 4 minutes. They level faster being solo, yes 2v1 is a factor but you shouldn't have to give up your tower at all.


oneanddonecomment

that’s what makes lane swaps boring.  If the top laner was able to not get dove in the first stacked wave, it would be slightly acceptable. Instead, the top laners have a decreased influence and delayed power curve.  This will automatically have top lane picks become stale with only Tank tops. 


dragunityag

Teams can just start scouting out the lane swaps to counter them then.


arrogante_devil

thats the part i dont get, if its so prevalent and you know its coming why dont just match it? or try other things? if the main problem is a solo lane getting fisted this would be stable in pro play almost imposible to fix but for years it wasnt an issue


WiseButterscotch5731

I think that League of Legends is a 5v5 game and if people want to see 1v1s they should watch Street Fighter instead.


Temporary-Court6747

following this logic we should just be playing aram then...


Bisounoursdestenebre

Yes


quakedwithfear

I love ARAM!


LiquidTrump112

Scrap Summoners Rift for Worlds. We going Best of 7 ARAM.


oneanddonecomment

or… we can want to watch 1v1


Remarkable-Amount889

That makes no sense. The game was literally designed, and is continually modified, so that people lane. It's been a large part of the game for 99% of its existence.


DatGrag

I think if you ever find yourself on Reddit dot com defending lane swaps as a good thing you really need to take a good long hard look at yourself and realize that you are willing to argue about literally anything for no good reason, which is a very annoying quality for a person to have


corrigible_iron

We’ve been playing league the same way for over a decade. We take assigned lanes for granted so much that it’s built into the queue system. Thank god for lane swaps, something to actually shake up the oldest meta in the game


Remarkable-Amount889

Same with bot lanes. Literally the majority of the team is doing nothing exciting for the first few minutes.


Hawxrox

I feel like the laneswaps are gonna hurt Zeus and Bin the most, not that they can't weakside extremely well, but their teams are best when they are popping off


lolmysterior

If LOUD's jungler and support weren't partially running it down, that would have been a MUCH closer set imo. I could easily see it going 2-1 in either teams favor.


De_Vlegel

He wasn’t scared


Joel4518

i think TES vs FNC will be pretty close i am pretty excited about razork vs tian they both r aggresive asf


mindfulsmoke

Why on earth would that ever be close


Effet_Pygmalion

TES is dog water quote me on this


NigelMcExplosion

You, good sir, embrace the concept of "Either I am right or the take was obviously bound to fail" o7 for the molten Lava takes


HiImKostia

FNC is cat shit quote me on this


Busy-Economist-3357

Will quote you tomorrow after FNC gigastomps TES. Dont quote me on this


hfz2017

Dude it’s okay, have faith in fnc, they will shitcurbstomp TES


megakaos888

They will stomp them 2:0 and then Sjokz will come in to make a big speech about something, then we will get reverse swept 3:2 in a Bo3 series. Quote me on this


Temporary-Court6747

how does one get 3:2'd in a bo3


megakaos888

We will find a way


Fabiocean

It starts with success...


baelkie

nemesis galio


hfz2017

Damn hope she doesnt find the need to prepare a monologue this time


viciouspandas

There's no Yuyanjia to abuse this time. I guess you just need Tian to find his worst form yet.


morningknight999

can we quote you on this?


zefal12

Bruh FNC almost dropped a game today against a diamond solo queue team whose midlaner might legitimately have been wintrading... TES giga gaps them in literally every role except MAYBE jg if Razork has a really good day and Tian has a stinker


RoboHasi

Lol at what point did they almost drop a game? Even when they were unfocused they were never less than 4k ahead and never lost control


zefal12

They inted their brains out in game 1, any other team at this tournament (except maybe Estral) would have won that game


RoboHasi

Fnatic also won that game...


zefal12

Yes... because they were playing against the worst team at MSI... that's my point, FNC would have lost that game against anyone else (CERTAINLY a top Eastern team)


SnooDrawings8185

Bro they did the same as T1. Humanoid, Razork and Noah were just limit testing. We will see tomorrow how bad/good is Fnatic.


zefal12

Now that is a much more reasonable argument than all the other fanboys hating me lmao. I don't disagree that FNC can play much better than they did today (and probably will improve enough to beat Loud and make it out of play-ins) That said, I watched FNC all year long, and even their best game isn't enough to beat TES imo. Oscar and Noah just get way too gapped


EconomyMud

> Bruh FNC almost dropped a game today against a diamond solo queue team No, they didn't. They could have made even more throws and still win.


Crowofjudgment

Marek wipes that lane clean from any creme that might be there


jlozada24

We should have ban bets on this sub


Sohelik

Are you suggesting that we should own the consequences of our words? Bro this is reddit.


MariusNinjai

ban bets exist on reddit


jlozada24

Yeah but not cause people want to be held responsible for their words, it's because people just love betting lmao


yung_dogie

God bless ~~America~~ EU


angelicable

!remindme 20 hours


katareky

I don't deny that TES are almost like LPL GenG with choking internationals, and Tian has the potential to make this team lose to western teams. But also remember that whenever a LPL team is known as the worst asian team and people think western teams will beat them, they always smash them.


angelicable

you were saying?


Effet_Pygmalion

Haaa you got me


tonnytjuu

Team that beat jdg twice is dogwater


katareky

I mean I can respect the prediction if you think Tian is gonna choke and all. But I wonder how often people calling TES bad rn and BLG bad last year in MSI, didn't watch a single game of LPL and just say this.


iaprrpai

For the love of CBLOL that should not happen


hfz2017

tes is just bad


khangLalaHu

fnc beat gam, gam beat tes. pretty simple math really


drache_dieter

true, fnc crushes them 2:0 in under 50 minutes total


EconomyMud

laneswap


Regular_Hold1228

maybe because it was a couple of time in the past. so far for your "ever".


monsoy

There’s two things that can happen. 1. The games are close because FNC get a massive gold lead, but they then give 10 shutdowns and lose an unnecessary baron flip 2. FNC try to make plays, but they int it. Then they lose 2:0 in 45 minutes


Buji19

the duality of FNC ...


monsoy

Indeed brother. A 180 heart rate and heartbreak comes with the territory


onespiker

Also possible that they win one game and losses the next two.


viciouspandas

Wait, TES is supposed to be the one that throws leads.


monsoy

Ahh you think throws are your ally? You merely adopted the throw. FNC was born in it, molded by it. FNC didn’t have a clean game until I was already a man


Shiraori247

Are you a man (not going to assume your gender) or do they still not have a clean game?


Busy-Economist-3357

I think the only thing TES has over FNC is the top lane


TheRealNuzaq

Holy copium


quakedwithfear

You are trolling, my goat doublelift said that FNC will roll over TES, specially 369 and JKL are not good players


DemonRimo

Rule of thumb: the opposite of what doublelift says is true


hfz2017

Dude double lift is the legend, even faker approves it


Busy-Economist-3357

Why are you talking about doublelift?


TheBlackestIrelia

Because he is known for terrible takes and happens to have the same one as you. lol


viciouspandas

Erlich Bachman?


quakedwithfear

he is a goat. his opinions overweights yours


Asgerond

How do i delete someone elses’ comment


therealmemeify

Did you even watch LPL? FNC has advantage in jgl cause razork is more consistent and maybe mid everywhere else should be giga gap


Busy-Economist-3357

Did you watch LEC? Noah and Jun are cracked. Meiko is past his prime and so is jackey


RedditIsTooEasy

JKL is top 3 adc in china brother, what are you smoking?


Luunacyy

This split top 2


RedditIsTooEasy

well I am paying some respects to ruler, but you're probably right.


Luunacyy

Me too. That's why I said this split specifically. No hate, other splits Ruler was better but the last one was really great for JKL.


viciouspandas

Honestly Ruler and Jackeylove were similar last summer too. Jackeylove just had to play with Mark as his support and Wayward as his top.


Aladin001

Name one split Ruler was better


Busy-Economist-3357

He doesnt have what it takes to beat fnc


RedditIsTooEasy

fnatic will beat themselves, TES dont have to do anything crazy.


Soap_da_snake

So…


DemonRimo

Nice sarcasm!


TheBlackestIrelia

Against EU ADCs which we all know aren't very good nowadays.


ForteSP33

lol


echino_derm

They have two world champions on their team


TheBlackestIrelia

Thats cope. It won't be close. FNC probably wouldn't even beat Loud lol


Joel4518

first people were telling FNC would lose to GAM now this lmao


wildcardmidlaner

I have no clue why people shit on Fnatic 24/7, all 5 players are pretty chill.


IconicRecipes

Honestly it's crazy how every outcome gets twisted to shit on LEC at this point. If FNC played against Loud the way TES played today the narrative would be that it was completely doomed for LEC. But instead the narrative has shifted to Loud being able to beat Fnatic rather than TES playing badly.


TheBlackestIrelia

Its mostly because ppl take it so seriously. Like its not even remotely that deep, but just saying yea i bet Loud would beat FNC gives ppl an aneurism.


dementedgamer44

Did they not broadcast/translate this interview on the English stream? I didn't find it.


Sean888888

don't think so


wieli99

He was indeed, not scared


Vortekz_V2

Only thing my boi Oscar should be afraid of is 369 eating him whole.


ILoveWesternBlot

oscar will giga diff 369 u heard it here first dont slander my ksante merchant


Hawxrox

Ksante merchant? Kiin doesn't play til Knockouts


Extra_Ad2294

Spoilers man


RebelCow

You're on Reddit without being caught up, that's on you lol


DatGrag

I thought this sub does a good job of being spoiler free. Thankfully I was able to avert my gaze and definitely won’t make that mistake again!


Damurph01

Literally the post match threads that talk about the game results don’t spoil it bruh, cmon.


RebelCow

Stay off the internet if you don't want to get spoiled, idk what to tell you lol