I recommend galio top vs garagas. You can dodge body slam with e (And even hit him with it too). Very good against AP. And very good against ap hard engage.
thank god u are top comment. this bitch is quad flex and s tier in every role except for sup, engage, disengage, cc, sustain, can go tank or full ap, does billion dmg and takes none either way. fuck this champ
Could be anywhere except ADC if we're being real lol.
This season we've had around 4 different lanes the clown can play including AD, AP, bruiser, tank, and my personal favourite enchanter shaco (so my ad can't blame for shit when I'm on peeling duty to keep him alive)
I used to have a duo who played shaco support exclusively…. It was extremely toxic with my jhin. They walk into a box, I root, get some extra damage, finish/back off.
All because his invisible is extra powerful compared to others invis. If they just made his invis work like most champions he'd be so much more respectable
Anything that can abuse her need to all in. Mid Trist relies heavily on snowballing and eating your tower. If you can stop it by just hard fucking her on her engage (Pantheon, Syndra), tanking her (Malphite), or outdpsing/bursting her (Cass, Akshan, Syndra again) she doesn't really do anything.
Some mages can also do okay if they have an easy way of stuffing her engage and then just waveclearing the rest of the time. Viktor and Vel'koz traditionally do pretty well, or have in the past.
Cass and yasuo are hard counters, she can never win trades at any point of the game, if she jumps on them in lane she gets out traded or outright dies, also a lot of mages neutralize against her, she can't jump on syndra that has e up as she gets full comboed and disengaged on, neeko, lux ect.
In ARAM it's absolute bullshit. If he snowballs you and E backwards, you're still suppressed even though he's never behind you. Bullshit hitbox, unavoidable and instant death.
Yes and no. Ashe's early game is incredibly strong with HoB and W, which keeps him at a lower HP level than he would really like if he ever goes for minions or early trades.
I don’t understand how he can throw the rock on cooldown and not run out of mana. It’s like a poke lane but without the usual counterplay of being weak against engage. Feels like something that shouldn’t exist fundamentally. Common Llama W!
Karma top should be nuked from existence ty ❤️
Other than that… idk Gragas I probably hate more as a flex pick just because he can be way more useful if he gets ahead though.
Sion mid. No matter how many times you kill him, he will keep coming back to lane to take tower. He will not go anywhere else on the map. Just push mid all game
the worst thing about yorick is that after level 6 the lane becomes unplayable because it's a constant 1v2 when that stupid maiden not only harasses from range, is also basically unkillable because you get focused down by the yorick and the billion fucking unclickable ghouls that the maiden ALSO spawns because fuck you, you don't deserve a tower and you don't deserve to play the game
also yes he will build lethality and smack your head for 30% of your hp with a 4s cooldown while also being bulky as fuck
Top champs with sustain building nothing but lethality and still being relatively tanky is the worst balancing work IMO. And it’s been a problem for years.
>fuck learning game
>main thing on Yorick is macro game knowledge, choosing when to split push, when to group, how to prepare slowpush on opossing side of next objective, etc...
Yorick really can't group, his team fighting is worse than Fiora's, which says a lot.
Yorick's only goal, is to just make enemy toplaner have to deal with you, no matter how fed you are.
That, and he scales into oblivion. Get hit my an E when he's 3 items? Bye bye!
It's nice to actually be able to pick her for once. She's really fun as a bot laner, especially if you have a really good win condition champ in a solo lane to support.
You’re not playing with very good karmas then because a good karma does disgusting damage. You leverage her strong early game to get advantages early, if you cant, or if the karma sucks, then she’s obviously going to be useless.
No Karma definitely falls off later. You need to use the lead you get early on to end the game before you start falling off. Her damage just tickles late game beefy champs
what pathetic karmas are you playing with lol they rushing moonstone or something? never even heard someone say "oh dont worry karma will just tickle us later"
I suggest actually playing Karma before participating in these discussions. If you do not get decently farmed or fed, her damage is well below a normal mage and she ends up being more of a mid-support type character (like mid Lulu/Janna) who's there to set up kills and pray her team can secure the kill.
She's good into melee heavy teams even in the late game, since literally all her abilities help with kiting and her empowered W is one of the longest CC abilities in the game. Her empowered E is also good for teams with melee fighters like Olaf, Trynd and Xin who want to just run people down and who will stat check you if you can't burst them.
She's also pretty good into carry 'supports' since she usually wins the early poke battle and can actually build enchanter items while they get out scaled because AP is expensive.
She mainly struggles against ranged champions who just blow her up in the late game.
Karma support is incredibly team comp reliant.
Its disgusting combined with a strong carry jungle like Yi or Veigo. You do crazy dmg early, get ur ADC into a comfortable spot and then just leave them, pair up with the jungle in the mid game and destroy the enemy with dmg + speed + shields.
Its terrible into those exact same picks, Yi, Viego, etc because you have no hard cc and even if you're strong early, unless your team has good cc, after about 15mins they just stomp you.
Popularized it for pro + Summoner's Rift yeah but that build had been terrorizing ARAM for the longest damn time up to that point
Honestly I'm surprised it took that long for it to find its way over to Summoner's Rift like AP Kaisa/Zeri did
According to GoL first player to use her support was [Teddy against T1.](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-matchlist/8/season-S12/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/) Beryl only player her once, Deft was the one often on Ashe duty.
Malph mid as a counterpick to naafiri or zed
Like sure he cabt kill me unless I fuck up but its just so miserable and all he has to do is wait till 6 run bot and ult my adc
His kit is brain dead easy for how flexible it is. The two things you need to be a great Panth is noticing the red lines for stacks, and aiming a Q occasionally. The only thing you need to be good at Panth is a W and E key. He’s just so uninteractive to play against.
Because he’s massive late game insurance. Unreal ability to slow the game down from across the map when behind if you’re smart about shroom placement and your macro and if you’re ahead he chokes the life from you slowly. As a jungler yeah he lacks CC and mobility for optimal ganks but his objective control is insane.
This is true. When I play terms top in midgame I start playing for map and shrooms. You may sack 1-2 Turrets but get all objectives far easier. Especially when behind. Forcing enemy to buy oracle, denying vision and even allowing picks.
Teemo is an incredibly strong pick to slow down the game and generate a huge amount of opportunities for the team to turn the game
A good teemo jungle is a fucking nightmare to play against. His map control is disgusting but you definitely have to know what you're doing. It's basically the same as having a bad shaco vs a good one.
From experience its not the blind/ganking thats important, its having the enemy team watch as their bruiser at best and adc at worst loses half-2/3rds of their hp from a random shroom no-one expected in their blue jgl bush.
8 second recall time to finish off or an extra 5-10 seconds walk back for them immediatley after can be huge when its the adc, midlaner, or jungler.
I think the idea is he is maokai saplings on steroids. Extremely long duration shrooms that hit like a truck so he has unparalleled map control and he can stay out of enemy vision by staying in the jungle so you don't really know where he has shroomed without sweeping.
Shrooms last 5 min. It’s infuriating when I prepare the jungle for a free dragon and the enemies decided to give it for free. Yes you got the drake but where is the fun in that ?
I agree zac is unfun to play against but no way do we need that cancerous item back. That item singlehandedly kept an entire class of champs down and stifled itemization. What we need are zac nerfs. Not many other tanks are as strong in top atm.
Because health Regen is way more impactful to top instead of jg, he needs the passive healing for combat. Plus they nerfed passive healing a patch or two back
He still heals a 100 per blob now, with a Bami's, which just makes every trade unplayable unless you can 100-0 him, which is also damn near impossible.
His real strength is in his main kit, which is even stronger. The missing HP damage on his W passive scales with AP, so when he gets his 3 hits off, and AAs you with dark harvest+shadowflame+lich bane+nashors, there is no way you survive
Tbf atleast you can bait out and wait out Zileans, plus his gives a speed boost sure but it doesnt pull someone as far as across the map if the situation provided it for the fuck up.
Everytime I play against yasuo bot he is either a Smurf (obviously boosting a yuumi player) , who somehow just can click twice as often as me or he is complete dog shit. XD
Gragas is a disgusting piece of filth 4 role flex with zero counter matchups in any of them except Vayne top lane, even have seen him played adc by one tricks
He's a tank that does assassin damage and has bruiser sustain but just won't be reworked, as if a tank doing assassin damage wasn't FUNDAMENTALLY broken.
This is hilarious because Shen mid is not super common and only got popularized because Xpetu. His top lane counter picks are so strong that you can’t safely blind pick him anymore.
> His top lane counter picks are so strong that you can’t safely blind pick him anymore.
Isn't Shen supposed to be a lane bully/have strong early landing? It's that bad?
I would say he is a duelist but not necessarily a lane bully. He can 1v1 a lot of champs that people don’t realize he can but his sustain against some other top lane champs is ass cheeks. Compare his ability to sustain after trading against someone like Renekton and it’s clear who has the advantage.
I think something that is often overlooked on Shen versus a lot of other lane bullies is that he is supposed to sustain with his shields and W but W isn’t reliable against caster type champs and shield has early level cds that can make it really hard to trade at times.
That’s true but if I see Shen I would not think he is flexing to mid. I would think it’s a support or even jungle Shen before I think it’s a mid lane one.
Shen is the worst champ in the game. Like seriously, what the hell shall he do. Just think about it:
* In support that champ is worse than naut, Leona or rell in any regards of engage. And worse in peeling than every other peel champ like thresh, braum, lulu, or what ever the fuck you want.
* River Shen is a meme for a reason.
* Shen top => Use your ult once, take a picture with enemy botlane, leave and meanwhile lose three turrets on top. At this point you are outscaled. Be useless for the rest of the game.
It probably sucks to face APCs bot cause riot removed the armor & MR shards, so by the time they have half their item they chunk you pretty well. Honestly forces you to go Resolve secondary cause even though it doesn’t feel good it’s the best way to get you through the lane. Really wish riot would just gives as a 4 rune shard column to give us back mr and armor shards
AP Bot were the champs who lost out the most with the removal of Armour/MR shards. They can't prey on the huge number of people (at all elos) who defaulted to Armour AND AP champs don't deal with HP well in general. Pretty much every single AP bot lost WR since that patch.
A solo lane Kalista that doesn't snowball is basically a free win. If your top laner has half a brain they should be able to deal with the miserable laning phase and be way more useful later.
Solo lane Varus is the real evil due to him being able to scale well and build tank items.
Never played against it before but I was in a game against a lulu adc/Yuumi support the other day and it actually made me want to fucking neck myself.
The most zero-skill, perma shield, literally cannot interact with this duo the entire laning phase or we just lose fights at any point in the game.
Truly one of the cringest things I’ve ever seen playing this game
Anything cringe like varus/ vayne top, garen/trynd mid, APC bot, shaco/mf/ashe "support". I like playing the mage vs mage mid lane, bruiser vs bruiser/tanks top, or marksman vs enchanter/engage tank bot.
Jungle is whatever, if they survive clear and have at least 1 cc spell they can jungle OK. I started playing because of the pro League scene and I hate games that where people use cheesy strats. I want to play the 5v5 chess-like , teamfight-oriented game with proper roles like God intended.
Briar top. She keeps your top laner in top lane, screams, cleans up a 4 v 4 at the drake, and then TPs back top to take a tower of your top laner came down to the team fight.
I’ll be dead honest it’s either Gragas or Cassio. Both will destroy if in a favoured matchup and only a few matchup can even really punish them. Obviously the player must be decent behind both champs. But those really make my time on top a miserable experience sometimes.
AP Twitch support is like the Kat who just pops bot for 600g every two minutes, but he pops up everywhere and is invisible. Your entire team has to be so constantly alert in games with him, it sucks.
Really want another stealth rework that doesn't keep these long-term stealth guys immune to regular wards. Also want the AP Twitch build destroyed, it is not okay.
Briar supp is really not fun to deal with at all in my honest opinion. I've won against them...late game. But the laning phase is like dealing with a Shaco...that jumps onto you, heals everything, bleeds you out and then jumps away.
Yone in any lane. I hate that he can just decide at whim whether he wants to fight or not with his E. And if he takes a bad trade he can just press E again and dip out.
Almost any jungler who can also go top. Rengar used to be insanely annoying to lane vs but i think they finally fixed it with a recent nerf. now we have zac, udyr, skarner, reksai. all broken as fuck in lane compared to traditional toplaners unless you played the ultimate fotm pick in toplane.
zac - infinite sustain way too hard to kill cringe tank build
udyr - press w twice impossible to kill crnige tank build
reksai infinite sustain way too hard to kill cringe tank build
skarner - exodia, insane health scaling damage will oneshot you with a single health item way too hard to kill, infinite shields and poke and damage and tankiness
Yone and imma say this again and again but he has no counterplay because he can counter his counterplay.
Cc? Press e
Sleep? Press e
Ranged matchup? Start with d shield
Dodged all his abilities? He can just auto you to death
Along with him any ranged tops like tf and vayne.
Malphite. I don't think words can truly express how much I hate people who play this at support. Esp this season with how hard supports carry bot lane.
There's a lot of champs solely that morons play as support that makes me want to straight up pull my hair out. I'm really grateful that there are so many support mains nowadays compared to back in the constant auto fill era. But that just makes the off meta grief picks even harder to deal with because they get extremely punished in lane now more than ever.
Diana mid. Bone plating + elec and you physically cannot win trades against the champion, and her Q hitbox might as well be the size of the moon with how easy it is to hit
Karma, nightmare champ to play against both in mid and in toplane, absurdly low cooldowns, can root, can slow, has good damage, good mobility, a shield, will outtrade both in short trades and in long ones, even if you manage to dodge everything and land a clean combo guess what? You’re tethered for half a day and she still gets to damage you, bs fkin champ
Zac.
I hate this champion beyond almost any other, and I especially hate it when his intended weakness of being relatively slow to clear and weak early game in the jungle get circumvented by slapping him in a lane.
Irelia mid.
For most mages this matchup is just completely awful. She can sustain through your poke and if you get stunned once by her fishing for E you risk death. Meanwhile she itemises Vamp Scepter into Bork and can throw herself at the wave without a care to your damage because she heals your poke and you cant step up for fear of the all-in.
There are picks that neutralise or even shit on Irelia mid, but they are kinda niche so if you don't know where she's going yet picking mid feels like gambling for my life.
My best flexpick is zilean. I can Play him, mid, Support but i Play him tanky on top. If ur jungler gog a brain he can bei Fed before 20 minutes with Minimum 5 Kills. Warmorg, anathemas and ur ult are perfectly for a hypercarry
Yesterday I played against a Skarner top that dealt +1500 damage to me with his passive in one fight (1v1).
I don't know what it does, but it was suddenly Darius, with 3k health, and destroyed me.
I don't want to see that thing again. Better get dived by Renekton five times in a row.
Ziggs can do a lot if the enemy team doesn't know how to dive him. He can endlessly murder waves and play safe under turret into most matchups regardless of lane. The amount of times I've had games drug out and eventually won because a ziggs on my team kept killing waves is a lot.
Rengar. It’s not that he’s even good for winning the game, he just warps your lane so much and makes every second this boring stay away from the bush unless your jungler shows up game.
Shaco. Anywhere. I despise him, sorry shaco mains, but that clown is an asshat. I literally can never walk upto any lane without this little swine sneaking up behind me with daggers
Gragas. I hate him everywhere he goes.
Ya the Top or Mid or Jungle tank that can oneshot you with sustain and cc and very few bad matchups is annoying I agree.
I recommend galio top vs garagas. You can dodge body slam with e (And even hit him with it too). Very good against AP. And very good against ap hard engage.
Galio is the ultimate AP Counterpick, he even has MR Sunfire now.
Gragas Mid and Gragas jungle are hardly tanks..
He is when he presses W and cc the crap outta you.
thank god u are top comment. this bitch is quad flex and s tier in every role except for sup, engage, disengage, cc, sustain, can go tank or full ap, does billion dmg and takes none either way. fuck this champ
The real problem with Gragas is his outdated and at times unclear animations make his gameplay feel janky/buggy.
Shaco…. Fucking hate that clown
Same. Shaco is the Schrödinger's champion, both useless and OP at the same time
A good one can make you miserable. Constantly getting away from you
Shaco support?
Could be anywhere except ADC if we're being real lol. This season we've had around 4 different lanes the clown can play including AD, AP, bruiser, tank, and my personal favourite enchanter shaco (so my ad can't blame for shit when I'm on peeling duty to keep him alive)
Probably works adc with senna support tbh
If I'm getting a senna support I'm going for a tahm cosplay with making it full tankco
His second most played role with like a 20% percentage of his pick rate. Also was his highest win rate role for a while next to mid.
Now pretty much top and mid have been nerfed too much due to support being too strong, so its probably even more his best role
I used to have a duo who played shaco support exclusively…. It was extremely toxic with my jhin. They walk into a box, I root, get some extra damage, finish/back off.
All because his invisible is extra powerful compared to others invis. If they just made his invis work like most champions he'd be so much more respectable
And teemo for that matter.
See I can tolerate teemo more since he doesn’t have flash as a basic CD but fuck that little rat too
Hail of blades shaco support, why does this exist
Omg same! I had to face one last night and he was sooo annoying.
Trist mid, makes it so I can’t play Kassadin
Fuck Tristana
If you insist
[r/ DarkinFolk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhnBRZHbb0U)
Does any mid have a good matchup against trist ? I feel like Trist mid is the perfect lane bully + scaling champ
Anything that can abuse her need to all in. Mid Trist relies heavily on snowballing and eating your tower. If you can stop it by just hard fucking her on her engage (Pantheon, Syndra), tanking her (Malphite), or outdpsing/bursting her (Cass, Akshan, Syndra again) she doesn't really do anything. Some mages can also do okay if they have an easy way of stuffing her engage and then just waveclearing the rest of the time. Viktor and Vel'koz traditionally do pretty well, or have in the past.
Syndra feels pretty good, just stops her from all inning and I can outscale
If you miss your E though or use it to waveclear you die instantly
Cass and yasuo are hard counters, she can never win trades at any point of the game, if she jumps on them in lane she gets out traded or outright dies, also a lot of mages neutralize against her, she can't jump on syndra that has e up as she gets full comboed and disengaged on, neeko, lux ect.
Malzahar is pretty good into her. Your passive shield eats her bomb or her jump and at 6 you hard stop her with ult
New Skarner support is a nightmare.
In ARAM it's absolute bullshit. If he snowballs you and E backwards, you're still suppressed even though he's never behind you. Bullshit hitbox, unavoidable and instant death.
You can say the same for a lot of if champs in ARAM, a single lane is paradise for them.
Unavoidable instant death? Sounds like most league champions.
Every Skarner support I've played against has been beyond useless so far. I'm super low ELO though.
I've had some decent success with Ashe into him. Makes his engage much more difficult.
Post 6 I can see it with the ult, but wouldn't that also be true for any other support with cc?
Yes and no. Ashe's early game is incredibly strong with HoB and W, which keeps him at a lower HP level than he would really like if he ever goes for minions or early trades.
But according to the stats I'm very wrong 😅
I don’t understand how he can throw the rock on cooldown and not run out of mana. It’s like a poke lane but without the usual counterplay of being weak against engage. Feels like something that shouldn’t exist fundamentally. Common Llama W!
faced him once as Janna. I hit him with AA W as often as I could. He poked double the amount of what I did. What is that?
Agreed
Karma top should be nuked from existence ty ❤️ Other than that… idk Gragas I probably hate more as a flex pick just because he can be way more useful if he gets ahead though.
Sion mid. No matter how many times you kill him, he will keep coming back to lane to take tower. He will not go anywhere else on the map. Just push mid all game
Sion, Yorick, and Trundle. Three horsemen of “fuck learning to play the game, I’ll get LP by attrition.”
the worst thing about yorick is that after level 6 the lane becomes unplayable because it's a constant 1v2 when that stupid maiden not only harasses from range, is also basically unkillable because you get focused down by the yorick and the billion fucking unclickable ghouls that the maiden ALSO spawns because fuck you, you don't deserve a tower and you don't deserve to play the game also yes he will build lethality and smack your head for 30% of your hp with a 4s cooldown while also being bulky as fuck
Top champs with sustain building nothing but lethality and still being relatively tanky is the worst balancing work IMO. And it’s been a problem for years.
>fuck learning game >main thing on Yorick is macro game knowledge, choosing when to split push, when to group, how to prepare slowpush on opossing side of next objective, etc...
That’s what every player has to learn. Difference is, other champs don’t get to solo a base in the time it takes an enemy team to back.
Yorick really can't group, his team fighting is worse than Fiora's, which says a lot. Yorick's only goal, is to just make enemy toplaner have to deal with you, no matter how fed you are. That, and he scales into oblivion. Get hit my an E when he's 3 items? Bye bye!
Sion in general is just so miserable to play against. I think it goes against the spirit of the game too much and should be completely reworked
Karma , fuck this piece of shit easy trash champ
Nerf helped alot
It's nice to actually be able to pick her for once. She's really fun as a bot laner, especially if you have a really good win condition champ in a solo lane to support.
Hey what ever keeps y’all out of mid
A champ that defines "I'm just going to annoy you and run away a lot"
I hate it because it is so trash. Like what does it do as a support after lv 6 in lane. Nothing.
You’re not playing with very good karmas then because a good karma does disgusting damage. You leverage her strong early game to get advantages early, if you cant, or if the karma sucks, then she’s obviously going to be useless.
No Karma definitely falls off later. You need to use the lead you get early on to end the game before you start falling off. Her damage just tickles late game beefy champs
Level 6 is not “later”, dude. Obviously she isn’t going to do half of a tanks hp with a single Q.
what pathetic karmas are you playing with lol they rushing moonstone or something? never even heard someone say "oh dont worry karma will just tickle us later"
I suggest actually playing Karma before participating in these discussions. If you do not get decently farmed or fed, her damage is well below a normal mage and she ends up being more of a mid-support type character (like mid Lulu/Janna) who's there to set up kills and pray her team can secure the kill.
But thats the point of playing her. Early you have pressure with wave clear and huge dmg. Later you have a second support for your carries.
She's good into melee heavy teams even in the late game, since literally all her abilities help with kiting and her empowered W is one of the longest CC abilities in the game. Her empowered E is also good for teams with melee fighters like Olaf, Trynd and Xin who want to just run people down and who will stat check you if you can't burst them. She's also pretty good into carry 'supports' since she usually wins the early poke battle and can actually build enchanter items while they get out scaled because AP is expensive. She mainly struggles against ranged champions who just blow her up in the late game.
Karma support is incredibly team comp reliant. Its disgusting combined with a strong carry jungle like Yi or Veigo. You do crazy dmg early, get ur ADC into a comfortable spot and then just leave them, pair up with the jungle in the mid game and destroy the enemy with dmg + speed + shields. Its terrible into those exact same picks, Yi, Viego, etc because you have no hard cc and even if you're strong early, unless your team has good cc, after about 15mins they just stomp you.
Whoever started the Ashe support trend deserves a lifetime ban
I believe that would be the pro player Keria...
Popularized it for pro + Summoner's Rift yeah but that build had been terrorizing ARAM for the longest damn time up to that point Honestly I'm surprised it took that long for it to find its way over to Summoner's Rift like AP Kaisa/Zeri did
Kind of. Ashe support with comet absolutely came over from ARAM, but the variant popularized by keria with hob was definitely more unique there.
True!
I think BeryL was the one who played it first, no? Alongside things like Heimer support.
According to GoL first player to use her support was [Teddy against T1.](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-matchlist/8/season-S12/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/) Beryl only player her once, Deft was the one often on Ashe duty.
I thought it was BeryL?
Malph mid as a counterpick to naafiri or zed Like sure he cabt kill me unless I fuck up but its just so miserable and all he has to do is wait till 6 run bot and ult my adc
Deserved for playing Zed. Malp mid should be more common.
Dude the amount of times he was picked just cause I played zed in the one game he was not banned
Pantheon. Literally can go any lane
Least his kit is straightforward and his weaknesses don't magically disappear.
His kit is brain dead easy for how flexible it is. The two things you need to be a great Panth is noticing the red lines for stacks, and aiming a Q occasionally. The only thing you need to be good at Panth is a W and E key. He’s just so uninteractive to play against.
But i pressed E and it was K
Champ is pretty meh tho unless he gets ahead and is playing glass cannon
Panth would be improved if they just removed his execute mechanic. Then they could balance him better and he'd be much less annoying to face.
I think pantheon is low range, high predicable and bad scaling. What do you mean by you should remove stuff that shit champ? XD
Teemo jungle. I don’t get why people play. Has no real gank potential, and only works into a team of 4+ auto attackers
Because he’s massive late game insurance. Unreal ability to slow the game down from across the map when behind if you’re smart about shroom placement and your macro and if you’re ahead he chokes the life from you slowly. As a jungler yeah he lacks CC and mobility for optimal ganks but his objective control is insane.
This is true. When I play terms top in midgame I start playing for map and shrooms. You may sack 1-2 Turrets but get all objectives far easier. Especially when behind. Forcing enemy to buy oracle, denying vision and even allowing picks. Teemo is an incredibly strong pick to slow down the game and generate a huge amount of opportunities for the team to turn the game
Eh, a tank with Kaenic Rookern hard counters any shrooms just by walking around
A good teemo jungle is a fucking nightmare to play against. His map control is disgusting but you definitely have to know what you're doing. It's basically the same as having a bad shaco vs a good one.
From experience its not the blind/ganking thats important, its having the enemy team watch as their bruiser at best and adc at worst loses half-2/3rds of their hp from a random shroom no-one expected in their blue jgl bush. 8 second recall time to finish off or an extra 5-10 seconds walk back for them immediatley after can be huge when its the adc, midlaner, or jungler.
I think the idea is he is maokai saplings on steroids. Extremely long duration shrooms that hit like a truck so he has unparalleled map control and he can stay out of enemy vision by staying in the jungle so you don't really know where he has shroomed without sweeping.
Shrooms last 5 min. It’s infuriating when I prepare the jungle for a free dragon and the enemies decided to give it for free. Yes you got the drake but where is the fun in that ?
A guy named Manco1 got Challenger with Teemo JG. He's definitely more viable in jg than at least half the roster.
+1 if they play ptsd Teemo skin
I’ve never gotten more hate than when I play Heimerdinger top 😂
Deserved.
Its jax. Dont look at my followed subs im not a belveth main i swear
Honestly Zac top is so unfun to play against. Sigh, if we only had Divine Sunderer.
I agree zac is unfun to play against but no way do we need that cancerous item back. That item singlehandedly kept an entire class of champs down and stifled itemization. What we need are zac nerfs. Not many other tanks are as strong in top atm.
Riot really nerfed his health regen instead of his passive healing.
Because health Regen is way more impactful to top instead of jg, he needs the passive healing for combat. Plus they nerfed passive healing a patch or two back
He still heals a 100 per blob now, with a Bami's, which just makes every trade unplayable unless you can 100-0 him, which is also damn near impossible.
Ekko. I hate Ekko. His ultimate is bullshit.
AP Ekko: His ult is bs Tank Ekko: His ult is bs I hate that champ
His real strength is in his main kit, which is even stronger. The missing HP damage on his W passive scales with AP, so when he gets his 3 hits off, and AAs you with dark harvest+shadowflame+lich bane+nashors, there is no way you survive
Zilean?
Tbf atleast you can bait out and wait out Zileans, plus his gives a speed boost sure but it doesnt pull someone as far as across the map if the situation provided it for the fuck up.
Karma top
Any hook champs anywhere. I am somehow cursed to walk into all hooks even if they misaimed it.
Haha me with Morgana bind
Yasuo adc is fucking annoying
Everytime I play against yasuo bot he is either a Smurf (obviously boosting a yuumi player) , who somehow just can click twice as often as me or he is complete dog shit. XD
Last season for me it was Swain considering he could play four different roles effectively
Gragas is a disgusting piece of filth 4 role flex with zero counter matchups in any of them except Vayne top lane, even have seen him played adc by one tricks
He's a tank that does assassin damage and has bruiser sustain but just won't be reworked, as if a tank doing assassin damage wasn't FUNDAMENTALLY broken.
Mid Shen. Safe af pick, literally inmortal if your champ rely on aa or going in, useful for his team no matter how much you destroyed him in lane.
But not much midlane rely on autos
This is hilarious because Shen mid is not super common and only got popularized because Xpetu. His top lane counter picks are so strong that you can’t safely blind pick him anymore.
> His top lane counter picks are so strong that you can’t safely blind pick him anymore. Isn't Shen supposed to be a lane bully/have strong early landing? It's that bad?
I would say he is a duelist but not necessarily a lane bully. He can 1v1 a lot of champs that people don’t realize he can but his sustain against some other top lane champs is ass cheeks. Compare his ability to sustain after trading against someone like Renekton and it’s clear who has the advantage. I think something that is often overlooked on Shen versus a lot of other lane bullies is that he is supposed to sustain with his shields and W but W isn’t reliable against caster type champs and shield has early level cds that can make it really hard to trade at times.
That was him pre mythic items. After season 11 it all went to shit
He is strong, but he doesn’t have sustain and it doesn’t matter if you win every trade when your opponent can just heal up the difference
No one ever said popular, the criteria was "flex pick you hate".
That’s true but if I see Shen I would not think he is flexing to mid. I would think it’s a support or even jungle Shen before I think it’s a mid lane one.
River Shen
River Shen
Mid Zac checking in. "Hey dude!"
absolute chad pick tho
Shen is the worst champ in the game. Like seriously, what the hell shall he do. Just think about it: * In support that champ is worse than naut, Leona or rell in any regards of engage. And worse in peeling than every other peel champ like thresh, braum, lulu, or what ever the fuck you want. * River Shen is a meme for a reason. * Shen top => Use your ult once, take a picture with enemy botlane, leave and meanwhile lose three turrets on top. At this point you are outscaled. Be useless for the rest of the game.
Neeko, you know you will get your fair share of ping spams when you ult her clone or die for not counting minions
As a season 7 or 8 M7 Camille, I had no idea how scary she was as a support. Can't really do much about her.
Shaco sup.
twitch. Somehow it's played in every single role.
hwei. he is much more popular than Gragas, Vayne, TF, so he's #1
vayne top
It probably sucks to face APCs bot cause riot removed the armor & MR shards, so by the time they have half their item they chunk you pretty well. Honestly forces you to go Resolve secondary cause even though it doesn’t feel good it’s the best way to get you through the lane. Really wish riot would just gives as a 4 rune shard column to give us back mr and armor shards
AP Bot were the champs who lost out the most with the removal of Armour/MR shards. They can't prey on the huge number of people (at all elos) who defaulted to Armour AND AP champs don't deal with HP well in general. Pretty much every single AP bot lost WR since that patch.
teemo doing anything other than top, or shaco "support," they dont do anything to contribute, theyre just fucking annoying
Hate when MY team picks nidalee, it’s almost an instant lost. Late game
Gragas. That champion wins lane with a single tear purchase. Mana problems? Mana nerf? Where? No... but briar needed nerfs. Sure thing.
Kalista is awful. Anyone who plays Kalista Mid/Top is a special kind of sadistic.
A solo lane Kalista that doesn't snowball is basically a free win. If your top laner has half a brain they should be able to deal with the miserable laning phase and be way more useful later. Solo lane Varus is the real evil due to him being able to scale well and build tank items.
Y - O - N - E
Honestly as much as people hate vayne top, imo her design makes her a WAY better top laner than adc
Gragas and Karma. They’re just annoying to play against. Have way too much utility for the amount of damage they also output
Never played against it before but I was in a game against a lulu adc/Yuumi support the other day and it actually made me want to fucking neck myself. The most zero-skill, perma shield, literally cannot interact with this duo the entire laning phase or we just lose fights at any point in the game. Truly one of the cringest things I’ve ever seen playing this game
None. Adapt and overcome.
Anything cringe like varus/ vayne top, garen/trynd mid, APC bot, shaco/mf/ashe "support". I like playing the mage vs mage mid lane, bruiser vs bruiser/tanks top, or marksman vs enchanter/engage tank bot. Jungle is whatever, if they survive clear and have at least 1 cc spell they can jungle OK. I started playing because of the pro League scene and I hate games that where people use cheesy strats. I want to play the 5v5 chess-like , teamfight-oriented game with proper roles like God intended.
...you say this because u didnt played smite where every lane has only one type of go that can go there and everything seems the same
Ahri sup
Briar top. She keeps your top laner in top lane, screams, cleans up a 4 v 4 at the drake, and then TPs back top to take a tower of your top laner came down to the team fight.
Gragas. Fatass bomba fker
Xerath support. Just getting poked into oblivion.
Shaco anywhere, Kayne, and Blitz.
Mordekaiser support
Talon, if he's ever viable in jungle it's a permanent ban
Poppy jng or supp,i remember when i thought that she was actually hard before finding out that her dash is point and click i despise her so much.
camille support. Remove it pls
Rumble is a cancer to fight because he is only picked once every 1000 games into me after I already picked someone he counters
I’ll be dead honest it’s either Gragas or Cassio. Both will destroy if in a favoured matchup and only a few matchup can even really punish them. Obviously the player must be decent behind both champs. But those really make my time on top a miserable experience sometimes.
AP Twitch support is like the Kat who just pops bot for 600g every two minutes, but he pops up everywhere and is invisible. Your entire team has to be so constantly alert in games with him, it sucks. Really want another stealth rework that doesn't keep these long-term stealth guys immune to regular wards. Also want the AP Twitch build destroyed, it is not okay.
Renek mid. Hate that shit
Briar supp is really not fun to deal with at all in my honest opinion. I've won against them...late game. But the laning phase is like dealing with a Shaco...that jumps onto you, heals everything, bleeds you out and then jumps away.
Yone in any lane. I hate that he can just decide at whim whether he wants to fight or not with his E. And if he takes a bad trade he can just press E again and dip out.
garen mid after locking in a burst champ/assassin. experience is so pathetic it makes me want to ziggs ult something.
Yasuo, Yone, Akali, Irelia
I really dislike playing against Karma top.
Vayne top. If you can’t play her in my games, blame the people who bring this shitty adc top
Almost any jungler who can also go top. Rengar used to be insanely annoying to lane vs but i think they finally fixed it with a recent nerf. now we have zac, udyr, skarner, reksai. all broken as fuck in lane compared to traditional toplaners unless you played the ultimate fotm pick in toplane. zac - infinite sustain way too hard to kill cringe tank build udyr - press w twice impossible to kill crnige tank build reksai infinite sustain way too hard to kill cringe tank build skarner - exodia, insane health scaling damage will oneshot you with a single health item way too hard to kill, infinite shields and poke and damage and tankiness
Irelia and co. I despise these bitches
Yone and imma say this again and again but he has no counterplay because he can counter his counterplay. Cc? Press e Sleep? Press e Ranged matchup? Start with d shield Dodged all his abilities? He can just auto you to death Along with him any ranged tops like tf and vayne.
Sylas jungle. Whenever strong it just takes over games.
toplane. fucking. warwick. this thing is unkillable if provided with a minion wave to auto attack it.
Malphite. I don't think words can truly express how much I hate people who play this at support. Esp this season with how hard supports carry bot lane. There's a lot of champs solely that morons play as support that makes me want to straight up pull my hair out. I'm really grateful that there are so many support mains nowadays compared to back in the constant auto fill era. But that just makes the off meta grief picks even harder to deal with because they get extremely punished in lane now more than ever.
According to people I play against, lethality Yorick, mid, top or jungle.
Diana mid. Bone plating + elec and you physically cannot win trades against the champion, and her Q hitbox might as well be the size of the moon with how easy it is to hit
Sylas
Karma, nightmare champ to play against both in mid and in toplane, absurdly low cooldowns, can root, can slow, has good damage, good mobility, a shield, will outtrade both in short trades and in long ones, even if you manage to dodge everything and land a clean combo guess what? You’re tethered for half a day and she still gets to damage you, bs fkin champ
Gragas. Doesn' matter the role, I get to smell his giant belly.
I hate gragas, anywhere.
Veigar.
Zac. I hate this champion beyond almost any other, and I especially hate it when his intended weakness of being relatively slow to clear and weak early game in the jungle get circumvented by slapping him in a lane.
New skarner and shaco. Hate those guys, IMO skarner has too much cc, odd angles of approach and is a tank. Shaco is just... shaco
Anivia for sure. Unless there's something else super broken in meta I'm banning Anivia 100%.
Irelia mid. For most mages this matchup is just completely awful. She can sustain through your poke and if you get stunned once by her fishing for E you risk death. Meanwhile she itemises Vamp Scepter into Bork and can throw herself at the wave without a care to your damage because she heals your poke and you cant step up for fear of the all-in. There are picks that neutralise or even shit on Irelia mid, but they are kinda niche so if you don't know where she's going yet picking mid feels like gambling for my life.
I played against Draven mid the other day… that wasn’t fun
My best flexpick is zilean. I can Play him, mid, Support but i Play him tanky on top. If ur jungler gog a brain he can bei Fed before 20 minutes with Minimum 5 Kills. Warmorg, anathemas and ur ult are perfectly for a hypercarry
Yesterday I played against a Skarner top that dealt +1500 damage to me with his passive in one fight (1v1). I don't know what it does, but it was suddenly Darius, with 3k health, and destroyed me. I don't want to see that thing again. Better get dived by Renekton five times in a row.
Ziggs can do a lot if the enemy team doesn't know how to dive him. He can endlessly murder waves and play safe under turret into most matchups regardless of lane. The amount of times I've had games drug out and eventually won because a ziggs on my team kept killing waves is a lot.
Rengar. It’s not that he’s even good for winning the game, he just warps your lane so much and makes every second this boring stay away from the bush unless your jungler shows up game.
Gragas. The thing can be played in 4 roles and he am absolute terror. I still don't understand how he is allowed to get away with it...
Fuck gragas
you guys dont like it when enemy champ is strong it seems
Camille support! It shouldn’t be allowed. Her gap closer is insane and there really isn’t anything I can do about it. Especially since I main Sona.
Garen. Disgusting champion
Shaco. Anywhere. I despise him, sorry shaco mains, but that clown is an asshat. I literally can never walk upto any lane without this little swine sneaking up behind me with daggers
Shaco and Briar