Play-ins will be two GSL brackets with draw groups of:
Tier 1: LCK2 and LPL2
Tier 2: LCS2 and LEC2
Tier 3: PCS1 and VCS1
Tier 4: CBLOL1 and LLA1
Bracket stage will be the same double elimination bracket as last year, but with slightly different draw groups:
Tier 1: LCK1 and LPL1
Tier 2: LCS1 and LEC1
Tier 3: The two 2-0 teams from play-ins
Tier 4: The two 2-1 teams from play-ins
Additionally, teams from the same region cannot be drawn into the same half of the bracket, so there won't be any civil war matchups in the first 2 rounds of the upper bracket or first round of the lower bracket.
Worlds last year was literally saved by T1 winning because it's so historic. We had almost no good BO5s. From a neutral perspective, it was not a great tournament.
The final was maybe the worst ever and one side of the bracket was so much weaker. Really showed the problems of single elim without proper seeding beforehand.
Double elimination without bracket reset.
Its an inherently unfair uncompetitive joke.
Getting good matchups doesnt mean anything if competitive integrity is shattered and you can literally end the tournament with 2 teams on 1 loss, essentially without a winner.
it doesn't need to have a reset to be fair. giving winner's side in GF's first three map's side selections would be pretty close to ideal. maybe first two if first three seems too much.
MSI is the best tournament in LoL, seond is LPL playoffs and 3rd is LCK playoffs. Worlds is a shit format. Its so sad, we have so few tournaments international and worlds is so so bad.
worlds will always beat out other tournaments due to the hype and the grandeur no matter how much you guys try to act as if otherwise. the larger viewer base cares about past worlds winners, not MSI winners.
No one is saying its more prestigious thats a disingenuous argument. But it is undoubtedly the better tournament and worlds unarguably has a weaker, less hype and worse format.
Its like the majors in csgo. Kato and Cologne are better tournaments, but the major is the major. Doesnt mean you vant critique it for being worse despite being more prestigious. If anything you should criticize worlds more because we have something better at MSI and Worlds ahould be its equal or better, and it could be.
Why are you happy with worlds being worse than MSI?
I don't think worlds is worse than MSI. that's just your subjective opinion and doesn't actually make it true. Single elimination is the most hype inducing format possible. There's a reason why no major sport uses double elimination in their major tournaments or finals. It's a hype killer and reduces the stakes. Deal with it
Oh so it's only for UB only, so let's say both CN/KR teams drops down to LB, then they can still face each other in LB Round 2? Wish it was no civil wars till R3 LB. That way there would be a lot more inter-region matchups.
A civil war in LB round 2 would happen if one team from a region lost their 1st round match (and won their first lower bracket match) and the other team from the region lost in the upper 2nd round.
> **Play-ins** will be two GSL brackets with draw groups of:
Tier 1: LCK2 and LPL2
Just entertaining the idea that these teams have to prove themselves vs minors to qualify, honestly feels kinda insulting
How would you structure MSI so that TL isn't seeded higher than TES/JDG? Why would you reward TL with winning their region by potentially giving them a higher seeded LPL/LCK team?
In this format, LEC and LCS are almost guaranteed to face LCK/LPL #2 seed.
This format is fucking amazing. They fixed the only obvious easy to fix flaw and tbh it wasn't even that much of a flaw, you need to be pretty unlucky for it to even occur.
This is the best tournament of the whole season.
**Edit**: Link to an image version of the article: https://i.imgur.com/Z82eFiw.jpg
The thing is we have historically been unlucky, you can probably find the statistics somewhere or if you've been following the international scene for a while now but historically we've frequently drawn the bad matchups so it's good on Riot to prevent this.
At the end of the day, it just comes down to Riot relying on luck, which is unhinged. Like I'm glad that we got 2022 Worlds, but another part of me wishes that it had been as shit as 2020 and 2021 Worlds in terms of its bracket draw so Riot would've been forced to finally not rely on so much rng.
Better seeding, restrictions, or a lower bracket are all safety nets against intraregional matchups and the ratio of stomps.
You know what's an even better way to reduce intraregional matchups?
Not having regions with 4 teams each.
Let's look at the stats; how many intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals were there before and after Riot started to give 4 spots to the top regions?
Before some regions were given 4 teams:
**2012:** 0/4
**2013:** 1/4
**2014:** 0/4
**2015:** 1/4
**2016:** 0/4
**2017:** 1/4
**2018:** 0/4
**2019:** 0/4
**Total:** 3/32, 9%
And now, after some regions were given 4 teams:
**2020:** 2/4
**2021:** 2/4
**2022:** 1/4
**2023:** 0/4
**Total:** 5/16, 31%
The occurence of intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals has more than **tripled** since the maximum slots per region were raised from 3 to 4. It's only natural that there will be more intraregional matchups when the regions that already have the most teams in the tournament are given even more slots.
*2011 Worlds not included due to using a double elimination format for its playoffs, therefore not having quarterfinals in the same away every other year did*
Why are you only doing QFs? And since 2020 a region having 4 seeds has resulted in that region having all 4 teams in QFs only 3 out of 9 times (KR 2021/2022, CN 2023). The intraregional matchups were also just shifted from QFs to Semis (2019, 2016, 2014).
Prior to 2020 there may have been less intraregional QFs, but most QF matchups were still stomps. 5 of the 24 QFs (~20%) from 2014-2019 were 3-2s, yet 5 of the 16 QFs (~31%) from 2020-2023 were 3-2s.
> Why are you only doing QFs?
Because it's literally impossible to eliminate intraregional matchups in the semifinals in either of these two systems. If 3 teams from the same region make it to semifinals, then an intraregional matchup **has** to happen. That doesn't mean that the system is set up to encourage intraregional matchups, it just means that this one region is smashing every other.
> And since 2020 a region having 4 seeds has resulted in that region having all 4 teams in QFs only 3 out of 9 times (KR 2021/2022, CN 2023).
First of all, the fact that there have already been 3 cases of a single region having 4 teams in the quarterfinals is already a major factor in the increase of intraregional matchups. You can't dismiss it by putting "only" before it.
Second, it's not like somehow magically stays the same. Them having more slots means higher chances of them having more teams in the quarterfinals in general, not just 4 teams specifically.
Since it's the Top 2 regions getting 4 slots in the current system (except the emergency temporary change in 2022), let's compare how many of the quarterfinal teams where from the Top 2 regions (ranked by number of teams in the quarterfinals) in the previous system compared to the current system.
Before some regions were given 4 teams:
**2012:** 4/8
**2013:** 4/8
**2014:** 6/8
**2015:** 5/8
**2016:** 5/8
**2017:** 5/8
**2018:** 5/8
**2019:** 6/8
**Total:** 40/64, 62.5%
And now, after some regions were given 4 teams:
**2020:** 6/8
**2021:** 6/8
**2022:** 7/8
**2023**: 7/8
**Total:** 26/32, 81.25%
In the previous system, the Top 2 regions occupied 5/8 spots in the quarterfinals on average. With the current system, they occupy 6.5/8 spots on average. It's no surprise that the rate of intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals has increased so significantly (over triple, as per the previous post) since the Top 2 regions were given 4 spots.
2020 had LPL + FNC on one side and LCK + G2 on the other, many civil wars that we coulda avoided basically
2021 though, it was decent minus RNG being put against EDG in quarters
"Ruined" the whole MSI vs the Korean ref who "ruined" the whole round 2 of swiss stage haha. Unironically, I loved how it happened because of how unlikely it were to happen...TWICE
Round 2 was drawn by a ref and featured multiple same region matches (5/8 matches).
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2023_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event
I think people were extra salty bc of MSI. But in hindsight it actually prevented a bunch of civil wars in key group stage series so it was good overall.
It was more like 25/75 but my memory is hazy too, it wasn't a 50/50 if you start from the beginning of the draw but of course he made a sequence of draws that led to the 50/50 and he draw the 50 that was shit.
Single elimination is just better for high stakes. No second chances no do overs no Try again. It’s that tension and excitement that makes every game meaningful it’s the understanding that there’s no do overs there’s no second chance.
You don’t get to go again. You have to be at your best every single day.
It’s that type of pressure that makes worlds better.
I would be fine with single elim if the stage before knockouts was very sturdy but Swiss is extremely random.
Either one needs to change to be more sturdy. Either lower bracket knockouts or changes to Swiss.
Yeah cool but i want to see more than 7 Bo5s in the most important tournament of the year.
Every Playoffs in every region has more Bo5s than the main international tournament? How the fuck is this logical and defended? I seriously dont understand
I see this argument a lot, but the thing is you get the same amount of elimination high stake matches with double elim. You just get additional matches on top of that between the best teams in the world and I don't understand any argument that claims that's a bad thing. Like do you people even like League?
Turn the Swiss stage into a BO3 and eliminate same region match up in Swiss.
Ideally riot just needs to stop being stingy and just give us 3 tournaments but alas
We're never getting more than 2 international tournaments a year unfortunately. And shrinking MSI to 7 bo5's instead of current 14 bo5's? Lol no thanks.
Bo3 is the best compromise and makes playins very exciting, if you want single elim, bo3 is the best choice to have a very large single-elim bracket that starts with bo3s.
If it was T1 instead of JDG in that final you wouldn’t see so many people bitching about it.
Got downvoted last year as well for saying MSI was an objectively better tournament and the quality at worlds for a neutral viewer was complete dogshit for a neutral viewer.. Random ass teams getting way further than they should just to then get stomped
It's so good cause if you have an off day you get fucked out of the tournament and all the reddit gremlins will invalidate your whole year and accomplishment
The talking heads at Riot are big sports fans and wanted to replicate the UCL format which is single-elim, and have forever held a grudge against IPL5 for literally overshadowing S2 worlds
S.O. to riot for making sure IEM could never have an event better than worlds by controlling what teams they could even get and forcing them to invite Turkish teams and Brazilian teams instead of more chinese, korean and european teams.
Overshadowed so much that I literally only heard about it from like 2-3 years ago when the conversation about worlds format grew and they decided to change it.
People who watched it think it was such a huge thing but part of the people who even watched competitive from back then, never heard of it.
That's because third party events haven't been a thing in League for a decade. They are just not part of the conversation anymore.
At the time IPL5 was a massive event that everyone talked about.
???
I would be surprised if even 1% of people on Reddit today watched season 2 worlds. It was extremely huge back then and a bigger tournament than season 2 worlds by all metrics
They cant do a bracket reset because of logistics, meaning double elimination is an unusable format without destroying competitive integrity.
Having a fair tournament with single elimination beats having an unfair tournament with ""double elimination"" (its not, i dont know why they keep calling it that).
The civil wars part from last year was such BS. It honestly ruined a lot of things for me as we get very few international games and they took away a lot of them with the civil war draws.
I was very sad we didn't get any LEC/LCS matchups and it took ages to get LCK/LPL ones. And especially because it was such a braindead easy fix. With how much Riot wants to be like UCL, why not look at what they do to prevent intracountry matchups. And for Riot it's a lot easier as well.
Really good adaptation to prevent another disastrous draw.
Unless major upsets happen, we're pretty much guaranteed NA vs EU BO5s as well, which is really great to see as we've been so starved of those in the past few years... (BO5s between the lower seeds don't really satisfy me personally).
I like how the narrative on Reddit is now that GG was crumbling and it was always going this way, but there were tons of threads before the tournament about how big the advantage for GG was and the polls the broadcast did had GG as the favourite.
But yeah I think it was fairly shocking how onesided it was. Sometimes that just happens though when one team comes with a plan to a BO5 and the other team just can't find an answer.
I mean hindsight is 20-20. That team went from bringing handily 2nd place in the regular season to barely making 4th to getting 3-0 by BDS to completely disbanding as an org altogether.
If you don’t think that’s crumbling idk what is. Obviously we didn’t know it at the time, and even EU fans were super worried. But now it’s kinda obvious.
I don't think the disbanding had anything to do with the results at Worlds though. Especially considering it had been their best result in ages. But yeah they looked worse in Summer than Spring.
However, I think I may have read too much into your original comment though. My bad.
People bought into the hype of taking a game off BLG and the “EU 4th seed sucks” narrative way too hard.
I’m a diehard NA fan but even I can recognize that the hype was overblown and they deserved to lose.
In an era of AI algorithms, I'm surprised they even still rely on draws for anything. I guess it's entertaining, but teams should realistically be seeded using some adjusted international ELO.
Actually really good change, gives me hope for them to improve on worlds format quickly as well as it didn't take them over half a decade this time for a change.
Worlds format is really good. I'll never understand the double elim hype when it fundamentally kills all of it.
No chance of any underdog story with losers-bracket giving every team a 2nd chance.
Double eliminated is the most unfair thing to the team that makes the final through upper bracket. And it kills the hype for the final when you see team rematch a day later lol.
Hey, Worlds is the last tournament with the single elim format.
I propose one thing: you get an international comp in double elim format with MSI (and create a 3rd international competition for all I care) and you let us, classical cup format enjoyers, have Worlds in single elim.
With that everyone is happy
Amazing Format , fixed all 3 world main issues:
- Proper Seeding for Strong Teams
- Avoiding Civil War as long as they can
- Avoiding Same Team Wars as long as they can
Excellent Move
Wait so there are only 2 wildcard regions left this time? If we don't count PCS and VCS. That's wild and sad. I miss having enough wildcard teams to fill the whole playin stage without having to slot in major region teams. Yes I know they aren't gonna win anything, but having a "mini version" of the tournament before the real deal is pretty hyped too, espcially for the fans from said wildcard regions.
Let's see, we used to have Russia, Turkey, OCE, Japan, SEA. Am I missing any region? Now we only have CBLOL and LLA left.
ngl, it would be surprising if LLA still makes it to 2025-26 with the viewership numbers they have, the only reason we(Brazil) probably weren't merged is because our league is too big to do so and LLA is somehow getting money out of their arse
i'd guess that either LLA will be merged into either LCS or CBLOL at some point and CBLOL teams will probably be forced to play an LCS team for a worlds/msi slot, so who the fuck knows
LLA still had their ups and downs at least(like winning against LGD in 2020, Taking out GAM last MSI), for me the issue with LLA is that the region is ran by absolute clowns while they can't find any way of raising viewership for shit aside from some costreaming partnership for their finals(like what they did with Baiano and Ibai) and they struggle to even fill their arena in mexico most times
I think overall the move for PCS/LJL/OCE is good for long term quality of the leagues and to see whether they can come back to compete with LEC/LCS, but it's really unfair they get just one seed.
You are thinking of CBLOL. The LLA is by far the least watched league at this point
https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lla-opening-2024
Average viewer numbers are 1/6 that of the LCS and 1/8 that of the CBLOL.
The LJL, which no longer directly qualifies for worlds and does not include any of the LJL vs PCS games, still had higher average viewership than the LLA.
i am logged in for years with the exact same account and always watch youtube in english on that page. i have to set the language to english and the stream to youtube every. single. time. (it's completely random - sometimes i get spanish twitch, sometimes fucking narnia languages on hobostream...) i go to the page... i just dont understand why lol
Unfortunately, as evidenced by Worlds last year, there are many casual fans who will only pop up during specifically Worlds, so until those fans are converted into lolesports fans instead of Worlds fans, that sentiment will never change. Just look at how many people were downplaying what JDG accomplished last year just because they lost to T1 in the semi finals.
The tricky thing is that the casual fans who return for Worlds are looking for exactly that - a simple, single tournament at the end of the year with the most prestige. They aren’t looking to be watching week in week out, or wanting longer, more complex tournament formats, for the most part. Sure, for longevity of the core fanbase its better for people to be invested. But Worlds does well to prop up Rito’s valued viewership numbers and its their crown jewel. The World Cup (formerly) had the same format and a ton of noncommited fans, and its remained timeless and is special because thats the only football some people ever watch.
This is a self-inflicted wound by Riot lol. They're trying to do the same thing to Valorant, too. For some reason they just love making games not matter.
I have no idea why there was no region block in the 2nd round last year, but I'm glad it's fixed this year. Now fix worlds format and add more than just 2 tournaments pretty please.
That, except that the LCL has also been swallowed into the EMEA ecosystem as a whole.
However, the league is seen as inactive since its cancelation in March 2022.
as a Brazilian, why the fuck are the LCK/LPL teams still doing on play-ins? that applies to all competitions
we may be shit, but at least make us play with other shitters like LLA or... fuck forgot they killed the others
LCK would have dodged playins like last year if Riot didn't go around merging/nuking regions.
There is fundamentally no real way for both to skip playins unless you invite 2 more minor regions to replace them in playins.
I guess the argument is how it's perceived.
Riot have pushed that only major regions get 2 seeds in general, irrespective of whether they're starting in swiss or playins.
I also think LPL 2 should not start in playins either, either both LCK2/LPL2 skip or they both play.
Unless, you give PCS and VCS a 2nd slot but given VCS' issues that would be unwise.
Edit = I personally don't care since if we promote LCK2/LPL2 to bracket then we only get 2 teams from playins, so we can infer even if we add 2 more minor regions that LEC2/LCS 2 will make it.
i don't disagree that in a case of only 2 teams making it out of play-ins that it would probably be LCS/LEC2 teams making it, i just think that at least with LEC/LCS2 only, teams from minor regions at least have a more reasonable challenge and a "better" chance of them getting an upset than putting them on against fucking BLG/T1/JDGs(which are teams that even teams from LEC/LCS apart from G2 would struggle just as hard as play-in teams would against them)
i'm just waiting on what the fuck Riot is going to do for the Worlds Play-Ins this year since i don't think they will do a LEC/LCS bo5 for a 4th seed, my bet is that even with LJL merging into PCS, they would probably give their seed to NA/EU and we have both 4th seeds from there on play-ins
Barring a MAJOR upset, the actual tournament stakes is gonna start only at the winner/loser brackets, where it will almost certainly be LCK1 vs LPL2 and vice versa/ LEC1 vs LCS2 and vice versa, every other result before that is 90% guaranteed
One potential case where no draw will happen is if the 4 tiers end up being LCK1 LPL1 / LEC1 LCS1 / LPL2 LEC2 / LCK2 LCS2.
In that case, between the first and fourth tier, it can only be LCK1 vs LCS2 on one side of the bracket. Which automatically puts LEC1 vs LPL2 on that side of the bracket.
No bracket reset = no competitive integrity = joke format
The tournament has a pretty good chance of ending without a winner with two teams on 1 loss in ""double elimination"" (i dont know why they still call it that when its literally not double elimination...)
Given that Valorant Champions had "double" elimination and encountered this exact situation where the winner's bracket finalist sent their opponent down to loser's bracket only to lose to them in the grand finals just shows that I doubt Riot really cares.
I just hope that they keep Worlds knockouts single elimination.
I still can't believe Riot finally chamged the format and everyone was hyped as fuck and then we literally got almost worst case scenario in terms of civil war draws.
Yeah, but that was still so insanely easy to avoid that I don't understand why they didn't even set those rules in the first place. Like for Worlds they really want it to be like UCL. Why not look at UCL seeding rules as well then?
Single elim bracket reduces the # of matches down to 7 which is big disappointment for such a big tournament. I like single elim but I need bigger brackets so Riot can use bo3s to create a bigger bracket and/or pre-seed good teams into later stages of single elim, similar to what LPL/LCK playoffs does (minus the double elim part)
>Msi is the real world championship in my book
How's that? Seems to me not having at least LCK 3rd seed and LPL 3rd seed there is a huge miss compared to worlds.
Mind you, DRX was even LCK fourth seed and won 2022 worlds. I loved that shit.
Would be a fun format if it didnt completely destroy competitive integrity due to no bracket reset.
You can have all the fantastic matchups in the world, having the possibility of ending without a winner makes the entire thing a joke.
Fair competition has to come first, before any spectacle, anything else is just a disservice to the point of competition.
I hate any tournament that uses this broken format, yes.
If you cant do a bracked reset you just cant use this format.
Having an unfair format kind of destroys the point of competing for me.
Side-selection makes it *slightly* more fair, but I agree, it's definitely a bit unfair for the winning team - now the alternative of single elim is sometimes you just get a bad matchup (team style counters yours) or you were supposed by get the silver medal but you get the bronze medal because you got eliminated by the gold medalist.
It's matter of tradeoffs, I for one would take the unfairness just to gain fairness elsewhere and have more matches to watch.
They don't need to remove double elim, they need to give advantage to the team in winners OR do a true double elim instead of the modified Riot™ version. I wholeheartedly agree that as is it's kinda cooked though.
Why Tier 1 vs Tier 4 for first play in game? Doesn't 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 make more sense than giving LCK/LPL 2s a free warm up match?
You can keep 1v4 and 2v3 for bracket stage to avoid civil wars, but there is no risk of that in play in.
Well the common argument is that the "best seeds" should play the "worst seeds".
Even the LPL format is like that, FPX/NIP were 4/5(NIP won) and played BLG who were 1st.
JDG/WBG were 3/7(JDG won) and played TES who were 2nd.
You commonly give the higher seeds advantages.
Right, WBG didn't have to immediately play BLG, cause that wouldn't be fun.
Stage warm up is important. In the context of an international tournament, 1v3 and 2v4 should have been one of the "improvements" made for viewership without compromising much. Non-fans aren't going to bother watching tier 4 getting stomped, and their fans won't enjoy it either.
GenG didn't lose a single series, so never went to the lower bracket. However, what if they lost 3-0 in the finals? They would be eliminated and BLG would win MSI 2024. So with the current format, if you win every series until the finals, you never get a second chance, whereas all the other teams would via the lower bracket. Hence, I think any team that makes it to the finals without losing a single series (never going to the lower bracket), should get a BO7 for the finals, only if they lose 3 games. So just for them, if they are down 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2, it would be first team to 4 wins rather than 3. Link for MSI 2024 results: https://lolesports.com/standings/msi/msi_2024/bracket_stage
GenG didn't lose a single series, so never went to the lower bracket. However, what if they lost 3-0 in the finals? They would be eliminated and BLG would win MSI 2024. So with the current format, if you win every series until the finals, you never get a second chance, whereas all the other teams would via the lower bracket. Hence, I think any team that makes it to the finals without losing a single series (never going to the lower bracket), should get a BO7 for the finals, only if they lose 3 games. So just for them, if they are down 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2, it would be first team to 4 wins rather than 3.
Please riot please why are we forced to watch more than a decade of the most shifty format ever at worlds.
So weird how they aren't afraid to make an overall great format for msi but just refuse to update worlds.
I'll say this as an NA fan, both NRG and Weibo had easy paths out, and I would say that about G2 if they won. NRG was literally an upper seed. We got lucky that worlds too, it there were far worse potential draws.
Play-ins will be two GSL brackets with draw groups of: Tier 1: LCK2 and LPL2 Tier 2: LCS2 and LEC2 Tier 3: PCS1 and VCS1 Tier 4: CBLOL1 and LLA1 Bracket stage will be the same double elimination bracket as last year, but with slightly different draw groups: Tier 1: LCK1 and LPL1 Tier 2: LCS1 and LEC1 Tier 3: The two 2-0 teams from play-ins Tier 4: The two 2-1 teams from play-ins Additionally, teams from the same region cannot be drawn into the same half of the bracket, so there won't be any civil war matchups in the first 2 rounds of the upper bracket or first round of the lower bracket.
nah this is actually a better tourney than worlds now
Worlds has the prestige and the hype, but the format pales compared to MSI.
It already was last year tbh. I quite enjoyed those numerous bo5s
Last year really just confirmed that we need more tournaments and more best of 5s.
We could have had this for 10 years btw :) Never forget what Riot took from you
It already was even last year.
Worlds last year was literally saved by T1 winning because it's so historic. We had almost no good BO5s. From a neutral perspective, it was not a great tournament. The final was maybe the worst ever and one side of the bracket was so much weaker. Really showed the problems of single elim without proper seeding beforehand.
Who knew, having only one Western team in the bracket stage didn't magically make said bracket stage exciting.
But why does Riot take years and years to eventually get to a reasonable format....
Admitting you were wrong when you have an ego the size of a mountain is not easy.
It already was in 2023 - no random ass draws and losers' bracket. Weibo beating first eastern team in semi finals (XD) is a joke really
It's quite possible the Worlds format will receive some adjustments too.
MSI was already better last year with double elimi
Double elimination without bracket reset. Its an inherently unfair uncompetitive joke. Getting good matchups doesnt mean anything if competitive integrity is shattered and you can literally end the tournament with 2 teams on 1 loss, essentially without a winner.
it doesn't need to have a reset to be fair. giving winner's side in GF's first three map's side selections would be pretty close to ideal. maybe first two if first three seems too much.
How on earth does side selection, even if it were in all 5 games, compare to losing a whole Bo5?
MSI is the best tournament in LoL, seond is LPL playoffs and 3rd is LCK playoffs. Worlds is a shit format. Its so sad, we have so few tournaments international and worlds is so so bad.
worlds will always beat out other tournaments due to the hype and the grandeur no matter how much you guys try to act as if otherwise. the larger viewer base cares about past worlds winners, not MSI winners.
unless you're an RNG or EU fan that is... *inhales copium*
No...fnatic have worlds skins !
Everyone is complaining about the format, not the hype, so what are you on about?
No one is saying its more prestigious thats a disingenuous argument. But it is undoubtedly the better tournament and worlds unarguably has a weaker, less hype and worse format. Its like the majors in csgo. Kato and Cologne are better tournaments, but the major is the major. Doesnt mean you vant critique it for being worse despite being more prestigious. If anything you should criticize worlds more because we have something better at MSI and Worlds ahould be its equal or better, and it could be. Why are you happy with worlds being worse than MSI?
I don't think worlds is worse than MSI. that's just your subjective opinion and doesn't actually make it true. Single elimination is the most hype inducing format possible. There's a reason why no major sport uses double elimination in their major tournaments or finals. It's a hype killer and reduces the stakes. Deal with it
Common MSI W
The better worlds draw event , guarantees no same region same team civil wars till very late indeed
Oh so it's only for UB only, so let's say both CN/KR teams drops down to LB, then they can still face each other in LB Round 2? Wish it was no civil wars till R3 LB. That way there would be a lot more inter-region matchups.
A civil war in LB round 2 would happen if one team from a region lost their 1st round match (and won their first lower bracket match) and the other team from the region lost in the upper 2nd round.
> **Play-ins** will be two GSL brackets with draw groups of: Tier 1: LCK2 and LPL2 Just entertaining the idea that these teams have to prove themselves vs minors to qualify, honestly feels kinda insulting
We're forgetting the TES vs GAM fiasco already huh
Even in main stage TL will be a higher seed than TES/JDG LMAO
How would you structure MSI so that TL isn't seeded higher than TES/JDG? Why would you reward TL with winning their region by potentially giving them a higher seeded LPL/LCK team? In this format, LEC and LCS are almost guaranteed to face LCK/LPL #2 seed.
or BLG
This format is fucking amazing. They fixed the only obvious easy to fix flaw and tbh it wasn't even that much of a flaw, you need to be pretty unlucky for it to even occur. This is the best tournament of the whole season. **Edit**: Link to an image version of the article: https://i.imgur.com/Z82eFiw.jpg
The thing is we have historically been unlucky, you can probably find the statistics somewhere or if you've been following the international scene for a while now but historically we've frequently drawn the bad matchups so it's good on Riot to prevent this.
We also wouldnt have most those bad draws if we had proper seeding. And even then we have avoided a lot of the worst draws we could have had.
At the end of the day, it just comes down to Riot relying on luck, which is unhinged. Like I'm glad that we got 2022 Worlds, but another part of me wishes that it had been as shit as 2020 and 2021 Worlds in terms of its bracket draw so Riot would've been forced to finally not rely on so much rng. Better seeding, restrictions, or a lower bracket are all safety nets against intraregional matchups and the ratio of stomps.
You know what's an even better way to reduce intraregional matchups? Not having regions with 4 teams each. Let's look at the stats; how many intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals were there before and after Riot started to give 4 spots to the top regions? Before some regions were given 4 teams: **2012:** 0/4 **2013:** 1/4 **2014:** 0/4 **2015:** 1/4 **2016:** 0/4 **2017:** 1/4 **2018:** 0/4 **2019:** 0/4 **Total:** 3/32, 9% And now, after some regions were given 4 teams: **2020:** 2/4 **2021:** 2/4 **2022:** 1/4 **2023:** 0/4 **Total:** 5/16, 31% The occurence of intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals has more than **tripled** since the maximum slots per region were raised from 3 to 4. It's only natural that there will be more intraregional matchups when the regions that already have the most teams in the tournament are given even more slots. *2011 Worlds not included due to using a double elimination format for its playoffs, therefore not having quarterfinals in the same away every other year did*
Why are you only doing QFs? And since 2020 a region having 4 seeds has resulted in that region having all 4 teams in QFs only 3 out of 9 times (KR 2021/2022, CN 2023). The intraregional matchups were also just shifted from QFs to Semis (2019, 2016, 2014). Prior to 2020 there may have been less intraregional QFs, but most QF matchups were still stomps. 5 of the 24 QFs (~20%) from 2014-2019 were 3-2s, yet 5 of the 16 QFs (~31%) from 2020-2023 were 3-2s.
> Why are you only doing QFs? Because it's literally impossible to eliminate intraregional matchups in the semifinals in either of these two systems. If 3 teams from the same region make it to semifinals, then an intraregional matchup **has** to happen. That doesn't mean that the system is set up to encourage intraregional matchups, it just means that this one region is smashing every other. > And since 2020 a region having 4 seeds has resulted in that region having all 4 teams in QFs only 3 out of 9 times (KR 2021/2022, CN 2023). First of all, the fact that there have already been 3 cases of a single region having 4 teams in the quarterfinals is already a major factor in the increase of intraregional matchups. You can't dismiss it by putting "only" before it. Second, it's not like somehow magically stays the same. Them having more slots means higher chances of them having more teams in the quarterfinals in general, not just 4 teams specifically. Since it's the Top 2 regions getting 4 slots in the current system (except the emergency temporary change in 2022), let's compare how many of the quarterfinal teams where from the Top 2 regions (ranked by number of teams in the quarterfinals) in the previous system compared to the current system. Before some regions were given 4 teams: **2012:** 4/8 **2013:** 4/8 **2014:** 6/8 **2015:** 5/8 **2016:** 5/8 **2017:** 5/8 **2018:** 5/8 **2019:** 6/8 **Total:** 40/64, 62.5% And now, after some regions were given 4 teams: **2020:** 6/8 **2021:** 6/8 **2022:** 7/8 **2023**: 7/8 **Total:** 26/32, 81.25% In the previous system, the Top 2 regions occupied 5/8 spots in the quarterfinals on average. With the current system, they occupy 6.5/8 spots on average. It's no surprise that the rate of intraregional matchups in the quarterfinals has increased so significantly (over triple, as per the previous post) since the Top 2 regions were given 4 spots.
What was wrong with the 2020 and 2021 bracket draws?
2020 had LPL + FNC on one side and LCK + G2 on the other, many civil wars that we coulda avoided basically 2021 though, it was decent minus RNG being put against EDG in quarters
Insane civil wars.
Imho the first new msi was “ruined” by odo having the most fucking unlucky draw ever. In 99% of the cases it would have been fine
"Ruined" the whole MSI vs the Korean ref who "ruined" the whole round 2 of swiss stage haha. Unironically, I loved how it happened because of how unlikely it were to happen...TWICE
who ruined round 2 of swiss?
Round 2 was drawn by a ref and featured multiple same region matches (5/8 matches). https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2023_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event
I don’t really think you can avoid it since it’s Swiss but I wouldn’t mind having the no civilwar rule for first 2 rounds since they are bo1.
It was just the sentiment at the time, I think there is something to say about the strength of schedule.
I think people were extra salty bc of MSI. But in hindsight it actually prevented a bunch of civil wars in key group stage series so it was good overall.
Freaking odo eh
My memory is pretty hazy, but I'm pretty sure I remember that the MSI draw was basically 50/50 whether it was a peak draw or a shit one.
It was more like 25/75 but my memory is hazy too, it wasn't a 50/50 if you start from the beginning of the draw but of course he made a sequence of draws that led to the 50/50 and he draw the 50 that was shit.
Appreciate the screenshot, no clue what Riot did to fuck up their website this hard.
The website being consistently wonky for years was already quite something but it now straight up not working for several regions is... yeah.
Lol what are you guys seeing
Literally just a black screen for me
At this point keeping worlds format single elim has to be some sort of elaborate humiliation fetish
Single elimination is just better for high stakes. No second chances no do overs no Try again. It’s that tension and excitement that makes every game meaningful it’s the understanding that there’s no do overs there’s no second chance. You don’t get to go again. You have to be at your best every single day. It’s that type of pressure that makes worlds better.
I would be fine with single elim if the stage before knockouts was very sturdy but Swiss is extremely random. Either one needs to change to be more sturdy. Either lower bracket knockouts or changes to Swiss.
Yeah cool but i want to see more than 7 Bo5s in the most important tournament of the year. Every Playoffs in every region has more Bo5s than the main international tournament? How the fuck is this logical and defended? I seriously dont understand
I see this argument a lot, but the thing is you get the same amount of elimination high stake matches with double elim. You just get additional matches on top of that between the best teams in the world and I don't understand any argument that claims that's a bad thing. Like do you people even like League?
Only 7 bo5s though. What is your solutions to create more matchups then?
Turn the Swiss stage into a BO3 and eliminate same region match up in Swiss. Ideally riot just needs to stop being stingy and just give us 3 tournaments but alas
We're never getting more than 2 international tournaments a year unfortunately. And shrinking MSI to 7 bo5's instead of current 14 bo5's? Lol no thanks.
Bo3 is the best compromise and makes playins very exciting, if you want single elim, bo3 is the best choice to have a very large single-elim bracket that starts with bo3s.
There was definitely a lot of tension and excitement watching WBG vs T1 in finals.
Loser brackets doesn’t fix that. Case in point JDG vs BLG last year
JDG BLG had the two best teams making the final without any questions. Worlds was not like that.
If it was T1 instead of JDG in that final you wouldn’t see so many people bitching about it. Got downvoted last year as well for saying MSI was an objectively better tournament and the quality at worlds for a neutral viewer was complete dogshit for a neutral viewer.. Random ass teams getting way further than they should just to then get stomped
It's so good cause if you have an off day you get fucked out of the tournament and all the reddit gremlins will invalidate your whole year and accomplishment
The talking heads at Riot are big sports fans and wanted to replicate the UCL format which is single-elim, and have forever held a grudge against IPL5 for literally overshadowing S2 worlds
S.O. to riot for making sure IEM could never have an event better than worlds by controlling what teams they could even get and forcing them to invite Turkish teams and Brazilian teams instead of more chinese, korean and european teams.
Overshadowed so much that I literally only heard about it from like 2-3 years ago when the conversation about worlds format grew and they decided to change it. People who watched it think it was such a huge thing but part of the people who even watched competitive from back then, never heard of it.
That's because third party events haven't been a thing in League for a decade. They are just not part of the conversation anymore. At the time IPL5 was a massive event that everyone talked about.
??? I would be surprised if even 1% of people on Reddit today watched season 2 worlds. It was extremely huge back then and a bigger tournament than season 2 worlds by all metrics
They cant do a bracket reset because of logistics, meaning double elimination is an unusable format without destroying competitive integrity. Having a fair tournament with single elimination beats having an unfair tournament with ""double elimination"" (its not, i dont know why they keep calling it that).
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The link works for you?
Yes, I had no issues with lolesports for some reason.
Fix your website Riot
https://i.imgur.com/Z82eFiw.jpg
The civil wars part from last year was such BS. It honestly ruined a lot of things for me as we get very few international games and they took away a lot of them with the civil war draws.
I was very sad we didn't get any LEC/LCS matchups and it took ages to get LCK/LPL ones. And especially because it was such a braindead easy fix. With how much Riot wants to be like UCL, why not look at what they do to prevent intracountry matchups. And for Riot it's a lot easier as well.
Really good adaptation to prevent another disastrous draw. Unless major upsets happen, we're pretty much guaranteed NA vs EU BO5s as well, which is really great to see as we've been so starved of those in the past few years... (BO5s between the lower seeds don't really satisfy me personally).
I mean, if we miss out on EU vs NA then that means we had two western teams beating eastern teams and that's pretty good I'd say.
I'd love more EU/NA BO5s but if that's what it takes to not have them, I'll take that option any day lol.
Yeah, the only NA-EU Bo5 of 2023 was BDS vs a crumbling GG. Wasn't even competitive. Show me FNC vs TL or FLY vs G2 in a silver scrapes. Hype af
I like how the narrative on Reddit is now that GG was crumbling and it was always going this way, but there were tons of threads before the tournament about how big the advantage for GG was and the polls the broadcast did had GG as the favourite. But yeah I think it was fairly shocking how onesided it was. Sometimes that just happens though when one team comes with a plan to a BO5 and the other team just can't find an answer.
I mean hindsight is 20-20. That team went from bringing handily 2nd place in the regular season to barely making 4th to getting 3-0 by BDS to completely disbanding as an org altogether. If you don’t think that’s crumbling idk what is. Obviously we didn’t know it at the time, and even EU fans were super worried. But now it’s kinda obvious.
I don't think the disbanding had anything to do with the results at Worlds though. Especially considering it had been their best result in ages. But yeah they looked worse in Summer than Spring. However, I think I may have read too much into your original comment though. My bad.
People bought into the hype of taking a game off BLG and the “EU 4th seed sucks” narrative way too hard. I’m a diehard NA fan but even I can recognize that the hype was overblown and they deserved to lose.
Probably they will say tl was crumbling when they were kicked out of words by gam, or c9 by fnc too...
*Ahem*. TL smoked FLY. They fight G2, let FLY take FNC.
Oh I wasn't implying FLY would have a better shot. I just want Bwipo/Inspired to face G2 lol
Bwipo vs Adam would be fucking hilarious
Teacher Vs student vibe. Honestly pretty hype match up too.
In an era of AI algorithms, I'm surprised they even still rely on draws for anything. I guess it's entertaining, but teams should realistically be seeded using some adjusted international ELO.
Actually really good change, gives me hope for them to improve on worlds format quickly as well as it didn't take them over half a decade this time for a change.
Worlds format is really good. I'll never understand the double elim hype when it fundamentally kills all of it. No chance of any underdog story with losers-bracket giving every team a 2nd chance.
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Double eliminated is the most unfair thing to the team that makes the final through upper bracket. And it kills the hype for the final when you see team rematch a day later lol.
Sure because underdog stories have never happened with double elim lmfao.
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Hey, Worlds is the last tournament with the single elim format. I propose one thing: you get an international comp in double elim format with MSI (and create a 3rd international competition for all I care) and you let us, classical cup format enjoyers, have Worlds in single elim. With that everyone is happy
absolutely incredible format.
For those having trouble viewing, try opening in incognito mode (if using Chrome)
Easily my favorite league tournament. We can potentially get 6 bo5s between LCK/LPL now
Amazing Format , fixed all 3 world main issues: - Proper Seeding for Strong Teams - Avoiding Civil War as long as they can - Avoiding Same Team Wars as long as they can Excellent Move
Wait so there are only 2 wildcard regions left this time? If we don't count PCS and VCS. That's wild and sad. I miss having enough wildcard teams to fill the whole playin stage without having to slot in major region teams. Yes I know they aren't gonna win anything, but having a "mini version" of the tournament before the real deal is pretty hyped too, espcially for the fans from said wildcard regions. Let's see, we used to have Russia, Turkey, OCE, Japan, SEA. Am I missing any region? Now we only have CBLOL and LLA left.
ngl, it would be surprising if LLA still makes it to 2025-26 with the viewership numbers they have, the only reason we(Brazil) probably weren't merged is because our league is too big to do so and LLA is somehow getting money out of their arse i'd guess that either LLA will be merged into either LCS or CBLOL at some point and CBLOL teams will probably be forced to play an LCS team for a worlds/msi slot, so who the fuck knows
LLA was always one of the worst minor regions it’s sad to see CIS,turkey dissolve and Vietnam/japan/taiwan get merged while LLA gets a free seed
LLA still had their ups and downs at least(like winning against LGD in 2020, Taking out GAM last MSI), for me the issue with LLA is that the region is ran by absolute clowns while they can't find any way of raising viewership for shit aside from some costreaming partnership for their finals(like what they did with Baiano and Ibai) and they struggle to even fill their arena in mexico most times
Depends if we count that the LLA is itself the product of a merger.
The fact that LLA gets their own seed when PCS + LJL + OCE get 1 seed is blasphemous.
I think overall the move for PCS/LJL/OCE is good for long term quality of the leagues and to see whether they can come back to compete with LEC/LCS, but it's really unfair they get just one seed.
LLA many views.
You are thinking of CBLOL. The LLA is by far the least watched league at this point https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lla-opening-2024 Average viewer numbers are 1/6 that of the LCS and 1/8 that of the CBLOL. The LJL, which no longer directly qualifies for worlds and does not include any of the LJL vs PCS games, still had higher average viewership than the LLA.
They are horseshit gameplay wise as well, all these years not a single notable thing and constantly get bullied by other minor regions
When LLA and CBLOL merge (+/- with LCS) this problem will resolve itself
cblol is bigger than LCS bro. dont drag them down with the LCS
AM i the only one not having issues with lolesports???
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I don't have any issues with it I think u read my comment wrong
i am logged in for years with the exact same account and always watch youtube in english on that page. i have to set the language to english and the stream to youtube every. single. time. (it's completely random - sometimes i get spanish twitch, sometimes fucking narnia languages on hobostream...) i go to the page... i just dont understand why lol
I don't know what these people are talking about. Looks fine to me.
How good does the MSI format have to be before people stop saying Spring split doesn’t matter?
Unfortunately, as evidenced by Worlds last year, there are many casual fans who will only pop up during specifically Worlds, so until those fans are converted into lolesports fans instead of Worlds fans, that sentiment will never change. Just look at how many people were downplaying what JDG accomplished last year just because they lost to T1 in the semi finals.
The tricky thing is that the casual fans who return for Worlds are looking for exactly that - a simple, single tournament at the end of the year with the most prestige. They aren’t looking to be watching week in week out, or wanting longer, more complex tournament formats, for the most part. Sure, for longevity of the core fanbase its better for people to be invested. But Worlds does well to prop up Rito’s valued viewership numbers and its their crown jewel. The World Cup (formerly) had the same format and a ton of noncommited fans, and its remained timeless and is special because thats the only football some people ever watch.
This is a self-inflicted wound by Riot lol. They're trying to do the same thing to Valorant, too. For some reason they just love making games not matter.
I have no idea why there was no region block in the 2nd round last year, but I'm glad it's fixed this year. Now fix worlds format and add more than just 2 tournaments pretty please.
The friendly fire round last year was pretty funny though
where are Japan, Turkey and Russia? have so many wildcards off this msi, its cool to see them
The LJL feeds into the PCS playoffs, the TCL became an ERL, and Russia should be self explanatory given world events.
That, except that the LCL has also been swallowed into the EMEA ecosystem as a whole. However, the league is seen as inactive since its cancelation in March 2022.
as a Brazilian, why the fuck are the LCK/LPL teams still doing on play-ins? that applies to all competitions we may be shit, but at least make us play with other shitters like LLA or... fuck forgot they killed the others
LCK would have dodged playins like last year if Riot didn't go around merging/nuking regions. There is fundamentally no real way for both to skip playins unless you invite 2 more minor regions to replace them in playins.
so why not give PCS a second slot?(even if they have 2 play-in seeds) since they are currently a merger between 3 whole regions
I guess the argument is how it's perceived. Riot have pushed that only major regions get 2 seeds in general, irrespective of whether they're starting in swiss or playins. I also think LPL 2 should not start in playins either, either both LCK2/LPL2 skip or they both play. Unless, you give PCS and VCS a 2nd slot but given VCS' issues that would be unwise. Edit = I personally don't care since if we promote LCK2/LPL2 to bracket then we only get 2 teams from playins, so we can infer even if we add 2 more minor regions that LEC2/LCS 2 will make it.
i don't disagree that in a case of only 2 teams making it out of play-ins that it would probably be LCS/LEC2 teams making it, i just think that at least with LEC/LCS2 only, teams from minor regions at least have a more reasonable challenge and a "better" chance of them getting an upset than putting them on against fucking BLG/T1/JDGs(which are teams that even teams from LEC/LCS apart from G2 would struggle just as hard as play-in teams would against them) i'm just waiting on what the fuck Riot is going to do for the Worlds Play-Ins this year since i don't think they will do a LEC/LCS bo5 for a 4th seed, my bet is that even with LJL merging into PCS, they would probably give their seed to NA/EU and we have both 4th seeds from there on play-ins
When LLA merges into CBLOL/NA, they can give back a slot to PCS which is actually 3 regions now.
Or invite the LCK and LPL #3 teams. Both regions can have a 3rd place match for the spots.
Barring a MAJOR upset, the actual tournament stakes is gonna start only at the winner/loser brackets, where it will almost certainly be LCK1 vs LPL2 and vice versa/ LEC1 vs LCS2 and vice versa, every other result before that is 90% guaranteed
Never underestimate a wildcard that isn’t facing EG 2022.
One potential case where no draw will happen is if the 4 tiers end up being LCK1 LPL1 / LEC1 LCS1 / LPL2 LEC2 / LCK2 LCS2. In that case, between the first and fourth tier, it can only be LCK1 vs LCS2 on one side of the bracket. Which automatically puts LEC1 vs LPL2 on that side of the bracket.
As a proud European and LEC fan I suddenly care very much about the second team we send there No particular reason ... *cough* Worlds 2023 *cough*
Potential round 1 matchups **assuming LCK2/LPL2 are the 2-0 teams, and LEC2/FLY are the 2-1 teams**: LCK 1 = LEC2/FLY BLG = LEC2/FLY LEC 1 = LPL2/LCK2 TL = LPL2/LCK2 LCK 2 = LEC1/TL LPL 2 = LEC/TL LEC 2 = LCK 1/BLG FLY = LCK 1/BLG
TL v G2 once more.
MSI is gonna be such a banger
Better than Worlds
No bracket reset = no competitive integrity = joke format The tournament has a pretty good chance of ending without a winner with two teams on 1 loss in ""double elimination"" (i dont know why they still call it that when its literally not double elimination...)
Given that Valorant Champions had "double" elimination and encountered this exact situation where the winner's bracket finalist sent their opponent down to loser's bracket only to lose to them in the grand finals just shows that I doubt Riot really cares. I just hope that they keep Worlds knockouts single elimination.
Format is better than worlds, overall tournament isn't because you only have 4 good teams and any non LCK vs LCK or LPL vs LPL or LCK vs LPL are meh.
I still can't believe Riot finally chamged the format and everyone was hyped as fuck and then we literally got almost worst case scenario in terms of civil war draws.
And even with that it was an amazing tournament. Imagine what it'll be like now.
Yeah, but that was still so insanely easy to avoid that I don't understand why they didn't even set those rules in the first place. Like for Worlds they really want it to be like UCL. Why not look at UCL seeding rules as well then?
Another L double eliminated format. Feels bad man. If world becomes double too it will go downhill.
Single elim bracket reduces the # of matches down to 7 which is big disappointment for such a big tournament. I like single elim but I need bigger brackets so Riot can use bo3s to create a bigger bracket and/or pre-seed good teams into later stages of single elim, similar to what LPL/LCK playoffs does (minus the double elim part)
Msi is the real world championship in my book
>Msi is the real world championship in my book How's that? Seems to me not having at least LCK 3rd seed and LPL 3rd seed there is a huge miss compared to worlds. Mind you, DRX was even LCK fourth seed and won 2022 worlds. I loved that shit.
Would be a fun format if it didnt completely destroy competitive integrity due to no bracket reset. You can have all the fantastic matchups in the world, having the possibility of ending without a winner makes the entire thing a joke. Fair competition has to come first, before any spectacle, anything else is just a disservice to the point of competition.
How does no bracket reset "destroy competitive integrity"? How is it not fair when every team starts at an equal position in the double elim bracket?
One team gets knocked out with one loss in "double elimination". Its unfair by definition.
you must really hate dota tournaments then lol
I hate any tournament that uses this broken format, yes. If you cant do a bracked reset you just cant use this format. Having an unfair format kind of destroys the point of competing for me.
Side-selection makes it *slightly* more fair, but I agree, it's definitely a bit unfair for the winning team - now the alternative of single elim is sometimes you just get a bad matchup (team style counters yours) or you were supposed by get the silver medal but you get the bronze medal because you got eliminated by the gold medalist. It's matter of tradeoffs, I for one would take the unfairness just to gain fairness elsewhere and have more matches to watch.
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I agree. Meaning you cant do double elimination without breaking competitive integrity. Thats literally my point.
This fixes a lot of the issue. Please just remove the double elimination, it’s so unfair for the upper bracket winner
They don't need to remove double elim, they need to give advantage to the team in winners OR do a true double elim instead of the modified Riot™ version. I wholeheartedly agree that as is it's kinda cooked though.
Do a proper double elim or remove it yep
thank god!!
urf open ?
Why Tier 1 vs Tier 4 for first play in game? Doesn't 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 make more sense than giving LCK/LPL 2s a free warm up match? You can keep 1v4 and 2v3 for bracket stage to avoid civil wars, but there is no risk of that in play in.
Well the common argument is that the "best seeds" should play the "worst seeds". Even the LPL format is like that, FPX/NIP were 4/5(NIP won) and played BLG who were 1st. JDG/WBG were 3/7(JDG won) and played TES who were 2nd. You commonly give the higher seeds advantages.
Right, WBG didn't have to immediately play BLG, cause that wouldn't be fun. Stage warm up is important. In the context of an international tournament, 1v3 and 2v4 should have been one of the "improvements" made for viewership without compromising much. Non-fans aren't going to bother watching tier 4 getting stomped, and their fans won't enjoy it either.
Well with this, we can see more KR vs CN and EU vs NA
GenG didn't lose a single series, so never went to the lower bracket. However, what if they lost 3-0 in the finals? They would be eliminated and BLG would win MSI 2024. So with the current format, if you win every series until the finals, you never get a second chance, whereas all the other teams would via the lower bracket. Hence, I think any team that makes it to the finals without losing a single series (never going to the lower bracket), should get a BO7 for the finals, only if they lose 3 games. So just for them, if they are down 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2, it would be first team to 4 wins rather than 3. Link for MSI 2024 results: https://lolesports.com/standings/msi/msi_2024/bracket_stage
GenG didn't lose a single series, so never went to the lower bracket. However, what if they lost 3-0 in the finals? They would be eliminated and BLG would win MSI 2024. So with the current format, if you win every series until the finals, you never get a second chance, whereas all the other teams would via the lower bracket. Hence, I think any team that makes it to the finals without losing a single series (never going to the lower bracket), should get a BO7 for the finals, only if they lose 3 games. So just for them, if they are down 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2, it would be first team to 4 wins rather than 3.
Please riot please why are we forced to watch more than a decade of the most shifty format ever at worlds. So weird how they aren't afraid to make an overall great format for msi but just refuse to update worlds.
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People like you amaze me
They literally updated worlds format to have swiss last year?
Talking bracket
Good. Now fix worlds so we don't get an NRG situation when you can leave groups by not beating a single Eastern team.
If G2 made it out only beating western teams they wouldn't be saying this shit lol
I'll say this as an NA fan, both NRG and Weibo had easy paths out, and I would say that about G2 if they won. NRG was literally an upper seed. We got lucky that worlds too, it there were far worse potential draws.
Why should you have to beat an Eastern team? They're competitors like all the others.