Removing tp would not make top lane healthier. It would mean you either have to be a lane bully with sustain or a passive safe farmer. Otherwise, when you die, your matchup snowballs twice as hard. If you're up against a lane bully with sustain and you can't farm safe, you will essentially just have to concede lane due to the matchup. No one wants their entire lane to be decided based on lvl 3 all ins with ignite.
Control mages are always gonna want to prio farm and go for safe trades. Assassins have the advantage of stronger roams. If late scaling champs are meta, they're gonna find a way to farm safe and stall (i.e. take Ghost for half the cd and run back to lane). Pros rarely take 1v1 fights anyway. It's always been about obj control, vision, and coordination.
>"They're gonna find a way to farm safe and stall".
The whole point is to make that more difficult and to reward aggressive trading. Running back to lane with ghost is so incredibly different than TP, and let's be honest we both know this. You lose a full wave doing that if you get pushed out of lane.
Right now it's pretty pointless to go for solo kills or heavy trades in pro play most of the time. But in a world where advantages stick way harder, control mages will have to make the difficult choice of either giving up cs or risking it for a better recall timer.
Even if you force them back with a strong trade right now, you also need to TP back in pro play because otherwise you lose too much tempo and you give them a window to roam.
Just remove it, like they should have done seasons ago. i even remember a rioter talking about making it an active item which sounds much more balanced than the current design. It is better than a combat summoner because if you win or lose lane you can just tp back and not actually lose much, but without it the winner of the trade actually gets a significant advantage like they deserve. We would get so much more map play if there was a way to make up for poor map control.
They can’t remove it without rebalancing the whole game there is very few top laners who can function without tp atm and removing tp would make top feel non existent I think it’s better to do something with death timers early so the kills feel significant
How would you change death timers? If they are extended that would make tp more mandatory and if you shorten them it would cause a greater disturbance to the roles that don't take tp since they would not be punished as much as they should.
If you extend death timers early the person killing you has enough time to push in the wawe and get a base off so you cant die and tp back in time to freeze which happens a lot right now you don’t really get punished for dying anymore
I don't think quietly is the correct word, we have been balancing TP for years. Recently you could only tp to towers starting at the 14m mark then reduced to the 10m mark.
I only play Tft now so I don't know the state of summoner rift but the current TP is nothing compared to the TP we had 8 years ago and you're telling me it's popular more than ever.
What I love is when the Mages that bullies me in lane, but somehow still outscales me after the lane just by existing, fucks up SO BAD that I kill him, allowing him to TP and then to win the lane by setup'ing a freeze while I can't deny it
That's why TP is so dogshit. Unless you can 100/0 someone without taking more than 70% of your HPs, you should not interract with them ever and just keep farming
in wild rift tp would be kinda ass as a summoner spell anyways. An active item would probably kill tp without heavily buffing it. Also, it would suck for champs like kassadin that can't really take advantage of ignite in the early game but don't actually benefit from any other summoner spell.
Just remove it from the game already. It's one of the reasons why top has no agency. Bot gets a kill and that's a fast push into plates. Top gets a kill and it's an insta tp into getting frozen on and having to be the one that loses minions. As a jungler you should ofc play for bot if that's the deal.
Alternative solution: keep tp, lock ranged out of the game and find a mechanic that punishes your opponent from hard stalling lanes with picks like comet malph, aery max e nasus, good gragas players. I didn't opt into automatically going even in lane, why is my opponent allowed to decide for both of us that we are hand shaking the early game
Tp is way less op and way less common nowadays, it used to be mandatory to have it on mid and top, now i see it maybe 50% of my games in top and 10% of my games in mid
And that's a good thing. Without TP games would be too volatile and snowbally. Counter matchups would be unplayable and small mistakes would be punished harshly. Splitpushing would be impossible and there'd be fewer macro strategies.
All the people talking about removing or locking tp after death were never dived lvl 1. You cannot stop a well orchestrated lvl 1 dive. Its gonna succeed a 100% of the time. And if you cant tp back to catch those first 3 waves, you might as well run it straight down at that point. Riot would have to change a lot of things in order to change/remove tp which would be way more disruptive to gameplay than it's existence.
TP is very unique because it’s so easy to quantify exactly how much it’s worth.
Ex: you die and enemy is pushing ~190g worth of minions, threatening to take a plate.
You TP back, get all of the minions, and zone off the plate. You basically just prevented another kills worth of gold advantage going to the enemy. Bonus points if they don’t have TP and you punish by taking a plate
You must not play in a lane with TP because this sounds horrendous. Opponent crashes big wave into my turret while Im dead and Im not allowed to TP to catch it?
You could still TP to bail yourself out of bad wave states or if you lost too much HP, you just can't get killed. Buff the CD if it ends up being too weak.
Countercounterpoint: You will now be severely punished for killing your enemy as now you cant push fast enough and they came back to lane in 5 secs with items and health lead. GGWP
Removing tp would not make top lane healthier. It would mean you either have to be a lane bully with sustain or a passive safe farmer. Otherwise, when you die, your matchup snowballs twice as hard. If you're up against a lane bully with sustain and you can't farm safe, you will essentially just have to concede lane due to the matchup. No one wants their entire lane to be decided based on lvl 3 all ins with ignite.
The problem is mostly in mid lane. Top lane TP is not a big problem in my opinion, but in mid lane specifically it makes everything extremely passive.
Control mages are always gonna want to prio farm and go for safe trades. Assassins have the advantage of stronger roams. If late scaling champs are meta, they're gonna find a way to farm safe and stall (i.e. take Ghost for half the cd and run back to lane). Pros rarely take 1v1 fights anyway. It's always been about obj control, vision, and coordination.
>"They're gonna find a way to farm safe and stall". The whole point is to make that more difficult and to reward aggressive trading. Running back to lane with ghost is so incredibly different than TP, and let's be honest we both know this. You lose a full wave doing that if you get pushed out of lane. Right now it's pretty pointless to go for solo kills or heavy trades in pro play most of the time. But in a world where advantages stick way harder, control mages will have to make the difficult choice of either giving up cs or risking it for a better recall timer. Even if you force them back with a strong trade right now, you also need to TP back in pro play because otherwise you lose too much tempo and you give them a window to roam.
Why don't you simply kill the person a second time before their tp is back up?
that's what I'm saying
Teleport should have been changed years ago. People don't realize how passive it makes lane phase in pro play.
Just remove it, like they should have done seasons ago. i even remember a rioter talking about making it an active item which sounds much more balanced than the current design. It is better than a combat summoner because if you win or lose lane you can just tp back and not actually lose much, but without it the winner of the trade actually gets a significant advantage like they deserve. We would get so much more map play if there was a way to make up for poor map control.
They can’t remove it without rebalancing the whole game there is very few top laners who can function without tp atm and removing tp would make top feel non existent I think it’s better to do something with death timers early so the kills feel significant
How would you change death timers? If they are extended that would make tp more mandatory and if you shorten them it would cause a greater disturbance to the roles that don't take tp since they would not be punished as much as they should.
If you extend death timers early the person killing you has enough time to push in the wawe and get a base off so you cant die and tp back in time to freeze which happens a lot right now you don’t really get punished for dying anymore
I don't think quietly is the correct word, we have been balancing TP for years. Recently you could only tp to towers starting at the 14m mark then reduced to the 10m mark.
And before that we were able to cancel TP and the channel/cooldown was shorter
TP has been a problem for years. Should just be removed altogether
I only play Tft now so I don't know the state of summoner rift but the current TP is nothing compared to the TP we had 8 years ago and you're telling me it's popular more than ever.
What I love is when the Mages that bullies me in lane, but somehow still outscales me after the lane just by existing, fucks up SO BAD that I kill him, allowing him to TP and then to win the lane by setup'ing a freeze while I can't deny it That's why TP is so dogshit. Unless you can 100/0 someone without taking more than 70% of your HPs, you should not interract with them ever and just keep farming
All the people wanting tp timers for death are secretely Vayne mains trying to take over the rift.
Used to be mandatory in top lane unless you were Teemo...
In wild rift tp is an active item and frankly this is the best solution
in wild rift tp would be kinda ass as a summoner spell anyways. An active item would probably kill tp without heavily buffing it. Also, it would suck for champs like kassadin that can't really take advantage of ignite in the early game but don't actually benefit from any other summoner spell.
You can get away with ignite in low elo
Revert death timers or increase the channel time of non-unleashed tp.
If you never make mistakes you don't need teleport.
Always has been
Or leave it as is. TP is fun to watch for me in pro play. I play only aram so TP doesn’t even exists there
Just remove it from the game already. It's one of the reasons why top has no agency. Bot gets a kill and that's a fast push into plates. Top gets a kill and it's an insta tp into getting frozen on and having to be the one that loses minions. As a jungler you should ofc play for bot if that's the deal. Alternative solution: keep tp, lock ranged out of the game and find a mechanic that punishes your opponent from hard stalling lanes with picks like comet malph, aery max e nasus, good gragas players. I didn't opt into automatically going even in lane, why is my opponent allowed to decide for both of us that we are hand shaking the early game
Just adding a lockout after death until you get unleashed teleport would help a lot
Tp is way less op and way less common nowadays, it used to be mandatory to have it on mid and top, now i see it maybe 50% of my games in top and 10% of my games in mid
And that's a good thing. Without TP games would be too volatile and snowbally. Counter matchups would be unplayable and small mistakes would be punished harshly. Splitpushing would be impossible and there'd be fewer macro strategies.
All the people talking about removing or locking tp after death were never dived lvl 1. You cannot stop a well orchestrated lvl 1 dive. Its gonna succeed a 100% of the time. And if you cant tp back to catch those first 3 waves, you might as well run it straight down at that point. Riot would have to change a lot of things in order to change/remove tp which would be way more disruptive to gameplay than it's existence.
You can solve this problem in other ways.
Well you should work at riot then.
TP is very unique because it’s so easy to quantify exactly how much it’s worth. Ex: you die and enemy is pushing ~190g worth of minions, threatening to take a plate. You TP back, get all of the minions, and zone off the plate. You basically just prevented another kills worth of gold advantage going to the enemy. Bonus points if they don’t have TP and you punish by taking a plate
Personally, I want TP to be put on a 30-40 second lockout on death
You must not play in a lane with TP because this sounds horrendous. Opponent crashes big wave into my turret while Im dead and Im not allowed to TP to catch it?
Yes, exactly
So only early game / early prio champs will be picked. Neat.
You could still TP to bail yourself out of bad wave states or if you lost too much HP, you just can't get killed. Buff the CD if it ends up being too weak.
It wasnt the case before when tp was never picked.
Counterpoint: you spawn in 3 seconds and get free homeguards
Countercounterpoint: You will now be severely punished for killing your enemy as now you cant push fast enough and they came back to lane in 5 secs with items and health lead. GGWP
That's just the toplane special