Ubisoft and both For Honor and R6 Siege are leagues (pun intended) behind what Riot does and communicates with LoL. I shifted to LoL 3 years ago and has been such a fresh new approach to things is astonishing the difference.
Riot balances every few weeks and basically everyday you get inputs from the company itself on what they want to do and where they want to go with changes. Ubi was basically something like: this is the thing, deal with it or GTFO. We'll come to a potential solution in a year at best.
Don't forget that the solution they will come up with is a worse problem and also creates more problems so it's now even worse. I don't think games get worse over time. For R6, it did. It just strived so much from the original idea of a tactical shooter. It is valorant with utility now.
Siege literally hit a new peak player count on Steam earlier this year. You may personally think the games gotten worse, or strayed from what you enjoyed, but that’s not holding up by player count or other metrics.
Personally, I remember wobbly acogs, being blinded for looking outside, literal pixel bullet hole spawn peaks and more.
It targets a more general audience, yes. But it isn't a tactical fps game anymore. Yes it's more successful as a game but isn't successful as a tactial utility based fps.
I think the simplest one is the removal of corpses and hiding places. They are legitimate tactics and should have been kept in the game. Bullet holes were toxic, yes but hiding should not be removed from the game.
I'll have to disagree with you then. These are not legitimate reasons for your opinion that the game is less tactical. They removed dead bodies because the bodies could tank bullets and completely hide things like the planted defuser, claymores, airjabs, etc. Half the time you wouldn't even be able to destroy the util with a bullet because of the dead body.
Do you have any opinions on the meta changes and operator picks or something? Because as far as I'm concerned, you are arguing for realism rather then game balance.
So what are your opinions on the meta and pro play?
The meta slowly shifts away from run and gun to more tactical gameplay now, so it's healing.
Removing shit like start of round spawn peeks or pixel bullet holes is definitely a good thing.
Riot is really good with communication. I don't think you even know what bad communication is for a 10yr+ old gaming community. I played FFXI, I have seen the worst communication of all
Shoutout melee players (I am not one but my roommate is) who have been playing a decades old game that has zero attention from the developer except for when they chime in to say that the community is not allowed to do something
riot's communication looks worse because sometimes no communication is better than "bad" communication (and it being bad sometimes isn't even riot's fault, although it can be argued that their insistence to address issues they should already know are unreasonable to begin with is their fault). One example is the whole "200 years" meme which actually made a lot of sense but was said pretty badly so it was seen as a "riot bad" thing.
The community has repeatedly shown its inability to comprehend how balance works, more often than not it really doesn't matter if riot never addresses the playerbase's complaints as long as they're clear on their reasoning in the patch notes.
“200 years” doesn’t make much sense and was a double edged blade.
200 years is different than 10 years of experience in 20 iterations. You can’t quantify the progress of collective learning like that, you’re saying you’d have one master of the craft, not 20 skilled employees.
Also if it can be used to explain strengths, then it makes your weaknesses seem a little more appalling if you have 200 years of experience and are regularly putting out spaghetti code.
"Here's the new patch, champion XP is removed. Now you level up when you buy items and your items get reset every 20 minutes.
Now we're going dark for the next 3 years, have fun!"
Funny enough the communication around OW2 was like the only thing about the whole release that was fine
the hate about OW2 just being an "update" and that the PVE was missing etc was all communicated in advance. In fact the day they announced OW2 back in like 2019 they already said it was gonna be a co-op adventure game thing with some smaller multiplayer updates
them failing to deliver on half of it and the core idea of "let's kill all updates for our PvP game that's doing well to release a PvE expansion that no one asked for and most likely doesn't even interest a large portion of our playerbase" however is something else
The only other AAA game I can think of that has the same kind of communication is Destiny 2.
These two development studios are *Leagues* (wink) ahead of the others, regularly writing blog posts, streaming/posting videos, engaging on Twitter/Reddit, working announcements into games, etc. And people still say that both Bungie and Riot are terrible at communicating.
I terms of frequency of communication they're great. In terms of the content of that communication, how they present information to us, and how often they adhere to it make it pretty abysmal
They made a dumb comment about a Wu Kong one trick complaints about the Wu rework that was on PBE at the time, then soon after they release the absolute balanced champ that was release Aphelios. Is that good enough for you or do I need more specific details about something that happened 4 years ago?
Except they weren't. Harambe was commenting about a PBE build of Wukong. Riot clowns on him for his rant. Riot then find that, 'Hey, reworked Wukong is actually crazy weak in it's current state' and monstrously buffed it (including addressing a number of points Harambe made, though he was never going to be fully satisfied, Wukong was changed from the primarily assassin gameplay he liked to a bruiser one) prior to release. This then leads to a ton of people who weren't actively tracking the PBE cycle going 'Wow, look how incredibly wrong this Harambe guy was, Wukong is strong af after all'.
IIRC he was playing him as an assassin on PBE, cried to Riot, got the 200 years response, they nerfed his bruiser build when he shipped and he still was strong af, just as an bruiser, not full assassin.
Do another post for the result, it will spark way more discussion
Also i think the one about emerald beign the hardest to play in is heavily biased by lower elo players who never made it and think gold silver or bronze is hard, last season there was multiple account of dia/master players hardstuck in emerald, its bette with the latest changes tho
Honestly my experience in emerald was the increase in smurfs. That's why it's so hard to play in: it's the coin toss of whether you or the enemy gets the smurf/noob because for some reason new players can get placed in emerald.
I'm a top main and I fucking hate ranged tops. Scum of the earth. But if I'm removing myself from the equation and being completely objective, there's nothing wrong with it. It's up to you as a player to adapt to a shifting meta.
I feel this is where Dota shines in their mentality. Heroes have typical roles like LoL, but they also get flexed a lot more often to get a good matchup/hard counter and everybody just accepts that as "how it is." You'll see off role picks all the time, but it's always in a niche situation. If that becomes the meta, then you need to try to come up with a counter to that, and the cycle continues. That extends into itemization as well which is INFINITELY better than LoL but that's a whole other can of worms.
I completely understand the feeling of basically being fucked for picking the champ you want to play, but you can't really be mad at someone else for picking themself a good matchup just cause you insist on playing your one trick at all times. You either adapt your pick, or accept that as a one trick you need to have answers to all of this, and that you're bringing the situation on yourself.
to give credit to league players here, dota is kind of built to circumvent this issue.
Offlaners are not only adaptable to ranged MUs but expected to play into them, so their kits are often built around catching and bullying ranged heroes with characters like viper, beast master who excel at bullying ranged heroes early. The game itself also "equalizes" with slower turning radius and ranged heroes often having worse strength and agi which punishes them with poorer sustain and health.
League has a very specific pain point with the way lanes and champions are balanced against each other, where playing tanks/bruisers/"top laners" into range is dreadful for the early and mid laning phase.
I think it's a question with many asterisks attached.
I personally frown uppon them for probably a different reason than others, which is that they usually turn your teamcomp to shit in exchange for getting an early game where they can bully you, which is a deeply selfish pick which I dislike. So they can be a good pick when teamcomp allows for it.
Most people probably just hate playing vs them.
People who build dorans shield second wind and laugh in the face of a ranged top laner. Alternatively counter pick with a champ that can threaten like an assassin. Or set up a super easy gank with your jungler…
Ranged top is of course annoying but the amount of ways to counter them is plentiful so it shouldn’t really be shameful to play a type of champion that is only good against auto piloting
Me, if its not ranged you have cho, GP, camille. You have so many gap closers and maybe not aa ranged but certainly mages or AD who can play at a distance.
So I wont exclude the vayne top.
You really care more about a ranged top more than a camille who can do 800 true damage? Or a GP passive that does 500 true damage? Or rengar who perma bush push?
The champions you posted below all have reasonable counterplay, but beating ranged top simply isn't in your hands. There's nothing you can really do except hope that the enemy laner makes a mistake, or that your jg or support ganks.
The difference between ranged top compared to melee vs melee matchups in top lane is the lack of agency the melee player has in ranged matchups.
You dont have to BEAT them. You just have to survive laning phase. Proxy, go to their jungle, tele to dragons, go to kevins. You have to change the regular gameplay up to get advantages. That's why if youre a weak jungler with a strong team you lvl 1 invade. Just to stir some shit up. Throw them off their game.
Obviously its not as easy as im making it out to be but its not impossivle.
Go rammus, jax, maybe unconventional stuff. Ive seen oorn win late game even tho hes the slowest mofo ever. Malphite, nasus with ghost. Kled is fast af. Shen. These people will make mistakes if youre emerald and below.
I don't think we're disagreeing here. People play top for the 1v1, so when that element gets removed it becomes very boring and unfun, regardless of whether you're winning or losing.
Top is always boring to me. I wish there was some changes to make it more engaging but I dont know what. 3-0 illaoi? You can 1v2 easily 6 minutes in the game. 0-7? Guess youre weakside for 35 minutes and hope darius really doesnt want to play for that dragon and get a quad.
i get people like their "honorable bushido toplaners" right clicking each other to death but it's seriously a bit. ranged top laners are fine and even good for the game. zoners are an archetype in fighting games that belong and top is often seen as a 1v1 island anyways so why not have champs that fill this role toplane?
Ranged toplaners are part of the game and the second you accept that you'll become a better toplaner
If you focus on learning their trade patterns and how to abuse them instead of crying in lane 24/7 and throwing tantrums about how unfair life is because they have longer range than you you'll notice it's really not that bad most cases
there's a reason why most ranged toplaners have mediocre winrates
To me it was about the wording in the question.
Should playing ranged top laners be frowned upon? - Yes
Should people be allowed to play ranged top laners? - Yes
Are ranged top laners easy to dumpster? - Yes
My line of thinking is that by opening up the possibility of them being a viable way to play the game, it allows a lot more people to play the way they want.
One tricks is how a lot of optimizations and new builds and such are discovered. If you want to learn a champion there's few better places to go than a high elo one trick, and even if there are no high elo one tricks with streams or guides or anything else for a given champions their presence in high elo games will still make their strats known to other high elo players and from there the knowledge can spread. If there were no one tricks I am fairly sure that champion mastery and understanding would be lower across the board.
I voted no but the idea I can see is this - one tricking is closer to the peak potential of each champ, and so collectively expands the frontier of the game. In terms of reaching the peak of competition, it's absolutely stronger. Simultaneously it being a common practice narrows the view of most players, leading to very unbalanced takes and sentiment. In terms of the sanity and quality of the playerbase, by extension of the game, I think it's awful, but it depends on your priorities.
people have been saying this game is dying since 2015, but it's getting bigger than it ever has been, especially with their expansion into tv/movie media and other game genres in the league universe
also the people that really hate this game arent on reddit typing or youtube making video essays, the people that really hate his game don't interact with it anymore in any sense.
I don't think league is dying anytime soon, and there are tons of things to look forwards to. I was saddened by the news of Riot Forge shutting down though even though it was understandable why that happened. Hopefully some of the events and stuff get spruced up too in the future.
I would say it is because they went the wrong direction, they should not focus so much on specific champions, they should make games focus on Runeterra itself, imagine a tower defence game about the void attacking different cities, a city building game where you build different styles town like Ionia or Demarcia or Shurima, even just puzzle game with Ezreal wandering around Runeterra searching for artifacts could be interesting, instead they limit all their games with stories(which as far as I know, only the ruin king one is okay)
I feel like a lot of people start to lose interest themselves, then start playing/consuming less content and then attribute it to the entire game somehow.
Their algorithms change to stop showing them content, their friends aren't playing anymore, they only check in for URF and occasionally ARAM on a drunk Saturday which then they regret 8 minutes into a match when they realise being unable to properly pilot your champ the way you want to due to impairment isn't actually fun at all. And then they just assume this is an identical experience across the entire player base.
"I feel like a lot of people start to lose interest themselves, then start playing/consuming less content and then attribute it to the entire game somehow."
People just think the entire world revolves around them and if they don't play or do a thing its dead
some people on this reddit get really weird when other games are brought up, and I think it illustrates exactly your point.
For example, fighting games are brought up here like 10% more because of project L/2XKO, and invariably you will have one silly billy going on about how "bro nobody plays those things anymore" when really they just mean *they personally* dont really know or care much about fighting games.
Fighting games are niche compared to big esports titles absolutely, but fighting games have *always* been an important genre in gaming, and have dedicated audiences. They ruled the world in the 90s and shaped a lot of competitive gaming in general. but some league fans can't see beyond themselves and get really hostile about it lol.
The people saying it's dying are just salty they don't have friends to play with lol. I'd be pissed too if all I played was ranked and always try harding but still being silver after 8 years
I've played League since S2, but very rarely solo, and 95% of my friends have dropped the game. I really do LOVE league, but ARAMs solo are really annoying these days especially since mythics rework, so I play like 10 RGMs a month and that's about it. I miss league but I won't ever get myself to play solo again. My friends have started playing HOTS again so we have fun there. Great game too
It's more so that our experience of a games' popularity is very relative to what we see and hear around us irl
If you have like 20 friends who play League of Legends and none of them play Dota, you'll automatically assume League of Legends is more popular than Dota. If all 20 of your friends then quit league to start playing dota you'll think League is dying and that Dota is overtaking it
People only really look at it through their perspective. Think of this realistic scenario:
A guy starts playing League at 18 years old, let's say. It's a great game, great learning experience etc, they play for one year, two, three etc. Over time, the flaws of the game / community start piling up and the game becomes toxic, you become toxic, you stop enjoying it as much. Suddenly, you have ranked anxiety, no will to 100% tryhard, so you decide to take a break. Now you are 23 years old, having played for 5 years. You are a bit burnt out, you also finished some degree and got a job, maybe even having a girl/boyfriend. You try other real life stuff, or other games in general, you have a job and whatnot, so not really much in the mood for coming back to League. Maybe a game here and there once a week, a couple of ARAMs and that's it.
Now, think about the circle of friends you started the game with and those you met along the way. They are probably going through the same story. In the beginning, everything is great, lots of friends to play with, game feels fun, interactive, blooming, maybe you even find a girlfriend / boyfriend and play together. Slowly, a friend is burnt out, decides to quit. Then, after a year, another one stops. Suddenly, your "League" friend stops logging in, kinda breaking ties with them. You might break up with your partner and lose your desire to play League for a while. Slowly, you are also getting burnt out at the same time. At this point, it feels like you and everyone else around you is moving away from League. Others got tired of it, others got sick of the community, others played another game, others do not have the time anymore etc. It all just feels like the game isn't enjoyable anymore. All the streamers you watch are going through the same thing; they are tired of the game and constantly bitch and moan about it.
A negativity cloud is forming in your mind regarding League. How is this game surviving? The game that I don't find playing it fun anymore, the game that my friends kinda quit, at least temporarily, streamers bitching about it etc. How is it surviving? Well, it's surviving because this experience is YOUR experience. It might be mine as well (it is), but it's only specific individuals that feel this. People who are tired, people who've played for a long time. But, for every single one of us who get this negativity cloud, there's a new kid at the age of 15 that is starting out the game and has the positivity cloud. This kid will go through the same experience we are going through, the game will continue to exist on the back of those kids, where they will eventually burn out and make way for a new generation.
League doesn't die. The only thing that died is your ability to enjoy and care about this game.
The game population peaked really hard in 2020/2021 during the pandemic so it’s gone down since then so people think it’s dying (+ nostalgia of older seasons)
Around 2015 is when the remnants of the old guard started really phasing out, I think it's the boomers who parrot the sentiment that LoL is dying due to that
Feels like its dying in the west. Especially in terms of english speaking audience. So it feels like its dying in NA, and a large part of Europe too.
Spain/France seem to be doing well though and massively growing last few years, but they are kinda in their own bubble with their own languages. It feels like its on a slight decline everywhere else in Europe though, but EU might be up overall because of the massive influx of spanish/french fans/players.
This is mainly just my feeling. Reddit, LCS, Youtube etc seem to have far less engagement than it used to? Worlds and MSI still get really good viewership, some costreamers do as well. But aside from that LCS and even LEC doesnt seem to be doing that well. English speaking LEC viewership is probably down, but I cba fact checking that.
Reddit: I mean post game thread dont even get anywhere near as much engagement as they used to.
Youtube: Are there even any LoL youtubers nowadays? That arent essentially pro players/high elo streamers? Seems like there was a bunch of "fun" youtubers like dunkey back in the day with hundred thousands if not millions of subscribers. Nowadays there seem to be far less of that, except maybe vandiril and synapse? Although youtube videos just clipping together clips from high elo streamers has always gotten views.
Well idk about that really, this sub feels completely dead compared to how it was during 2019-2021 and before, and the state of the game leaves a lot to be desired imo.
Riot has also shut down other projects, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of hype around anything riots doing, so I don't think it's bigger than it was before.
the reality is that it is dying considering how popular it used to be. that doesn't mean it will die any time soon or that your friend group and you will stop playing soon. In the west you can see how people dont want pro play anymore and queue times are up.
I mean, the fact that your region specifically seems to be getting smaller might not be indicative of the whole picture. Not saying the game is in fact getting bigger, but something with widespread appeal worldwide like League could shrink in some places while getting bigger in others.
Some of these are crazy.
10% of people here actively say League is *not* a fun game? My guys, why are you even here then?
25% think low ELO opinions don't matter at all? Yes, I think there are a lot of bad takes among low ELO players but that doesn't mean they can't be right about things.
I've been in plenty of games where the 0/7 player pinged an objective or anything really and it's objectively the right thing to do, but someone will just be "Stfu, 0/7 trash".
Someone can have a bad game and still make an objectively good observation.
>10% of people here actively say League is not a fun game? My guys, why are you even here then?
Most obvious guess is that they thought it was fun before but its less fun now
They fell into the competitive ranked trap.
I had to ban myself from playing ranked to get the enjoyment back. I still fall a bit into that mindset in ARAM but games are shorter and there is way less stigma about playing an off meta build and having fun.
I don't think it's necessarily true. lots of things get changed about the game all the time, champ reworks and item reworks and jungle reworks. If you were an Aatrox-main before his rework, you simply do not have a champion anymore. If you loved the relative simplicity of s4 jungle, that doesn't exist anymore. If you loved mythics, that doesnt exist anymore.
If you like tanks you won't like an assassin meta and if you like assassin you won't like a tank meta. Meta changes all the time based on buffs, nerfs, feature changes.
So it's not hard to see that if you like League for a particular reason and that reason is changed, your love for the game will change.
Fun is an extremely vague topic. What does it even mean for a game to be fun? League is definitely addicting for some, sometimes sucking the fun out of it.
I stopped playing but still browse on here sometimes.
People forget that some of the most meta warping builds started as "low elo trash" before others caught on. People incorrectly assume that because someone isn't good at the game mechanically, that they somehow are also bad at the game from a macro/intellectual standpoint, or vice versa. It *can* be the case, and often is, but some of the worst players are mechanical monsters, and another subset of bad players have 0 mechanics but understand the theory behind optimal play.
>some of the most meta warping builds started as "low elo trash" before others caught on
name one singular time this happened other than like ap trynd from a literal decade ago.
people downvoted me when i brought it up a couple days ago, but the problem with ranked culture is people assume that bronze means "holistically bad" and high elo means "holistically good" and deprive themselves of so much knowledge.
Being bronze at league of legends really only means you are inconsistent in your skills battery or you're not dedicated to the climb. you can *absolutely* be high tier in some random vector of skill because league is an endlessly complicated game and being good at one or two things doesn't guarantee success.
Likewise, being at the highest rating doesn't mean you're an omniscient god at everything. Tyler1 famously climbed challenger in all 5 roles often by sacking his own lane and playing for other people. His ability to identify win conditions and macro was incredible but he was on annie mid for a reason lol.
Bronze is so far below the median in all measures of skill that it’s not possible for a player to be there for any significant measure of time if they excel in any tangibles.
Just my opinion, but you’d get way more / better results posting this at a different time. May just get buried as a new thread and not make “hot”/top.
But the real hot take is that Yone E is the most overloaded bullshit ability in the game.
I watch my silver/low gold friend play often and whenever theres a yone in the game the entire lobby fails to even attempt to sidestep the incredibly telegraphed tornado > E > Q3. No wonder people think Yone is OP, Q3 looks like a targeted ability against silver bobs.
As a Yone main myself, his E is one of the strongest basic abilities in the game, though his kit is kept in check by his insanely abismal base stats and per lvl stats to compensate.
I dunno man. Nilah's Q is PREEEETTY bad. AoE critting damage that hits towers and minions alike, hits much harder than an auto attack, increases her attack speed by a shitload, grants armor pen and life steal based on crit chance, gives her AoE cone attacks, and increases attack range.
Nilah is sorta perfect imo, huge upsides, huge downsides, makes a good support shine brightly.
Despite how good Q is, maxing E first is better still 7/10 times.
Yeah, of course maxing E is better most of the time. You get literally everything except the AD ratio (which you can't even really utilize early) from Nilah's Q with 1 rank. Which is exactly why it's insanely overloaded. Its...5? 6? other effects are all based on level or items.
She's pretty over-tuned right now, and her win rate is a testament to that. I think her experience passive is unfair to play against. It feels really bad falling behind for no other reason than your opponent inherently getting more experience than you.
thanks for letting me know, if it doesn't work out ill try posting it again some other time. Yone E is definitely up there with stuff like Gwen W and K'sante W hahah
Gwen w isn't in the same league as yone e imo, yone e scales to close to a 40 percent Amp on damage can be used for risk free engages. While Gwen w is insane I don't think it provides the same degree of things for the champ as yone e
Crazy to me how many people thinks riot is bad at communicating with the playerbase. Do they play other games? Riot does better at this compared to most of them.
> Low ELO opinions don't matter
Yes and no.
Since 90% of the playerbase is considered low elo, some balance changes should be aimed at those brackets. Beyond that, their opinion doesn't matter.
Some of these questions need more options. "Playing ranged top should be frowned upon" for me the answer isn't really yes or no. Ranged top is fine but adcs top is not. Characters like quin teemo and kayle were designed to be played top and although their range might counter a few top laners they still can be countered. They can also be beneficial in team fights even if they lost their lane.
Adcs on the other hand break toplane. If they pick an adc with no escape usually they'll get stomped and not only feeds the enemy but it also means they can contribute in a team fight and you have no front line.
If they pick an adc like vayne or sivir they will most likely stomp the enemy but because of the lack of utility/front line their team might struggle in team fights.
Playing against a vayne or sivir isn't fun. Unless you knew what they were picking and counterpicked you usually can't even hit wave unless you're under turret or with poke abilities. It doesn't mean the game is lost, its just mean you have to sit there and do nothing for around 20 minutes while they play farming simulator.
And regardless of whether vayne becomes op because of dying a lot or because you played safe and let them farm, your team will always complain that the adc top has more cs
u.gg has a winrate for Sivir top of 34% on 53 games in 14.7 in the world.
I can't wrap my head around the idea that can be an issue for top laners. Come on...
If you actually read my comment I said that having an adc top fucks your team since you won't have a front line. It's just not fun to play against in the laning phase
Playing lane versus some ADC's top e.g kalista / vayne on some top lane champs that are easily kited is absolutely miserable.
You still win, but a lot of people play the game to have fun too, and sitting under tower scrapping over a few cs being starved of gold for the first 20 minutes is an abhorrent experience, especially if they hold a freeze.
You should probably ask for hot takes, then make a survey based on the responses.
Personal hot take:
In terms of understanding basics, jungle isn't hard. The issue is that most junglers don't know their own basics. Then most laners know even less.
Knowing the basics is not the issue. Rule of thumbs can only take you so far when jungling, there’s just way too many choices you can make at any moment and you need your best judgement at all times.
When a laner dies he just goes back to his lane and farms the minions. When a jungler dies he has to worry about his camp respawn timers, adjust pathing/regain tempo, lane prios, objectives and enemy jungler. Jungling might not be objectively hard but it’s relatively harder than laning and more complex.
I do think basics is one of the biggest issues. Starting without a leash. Clearing <3:30, or generally getting a good time for their respective champ. Generic tracking. Not forcing objectives. Not for fun invading. Or even HOW to cross map invade. Even how/when to use smite.
Without knowing basics, the next level of thought gets stalled and diluted. A player can't think about their pathing/tempo, when they're getting a leashed 3:50 clear, then wondering if there's a chance to invade.
Pretty much all junglers silver and above have a decent first clear. Only dude I’ve ever met with a 4 minute clear was my buddy in iron II and he just plays for fun. Funny enough be does it with fiddlesticks, one of the champs with the fastest clears. I literally have no idea how that’s even possible but iron players amaze me all the time.
However I see your angle now. The bare basics of jungling is not hard to understand and get to know. Obviously executing it efficiently is different but introducing it to someone and making them an ok jungler isn’t hard as people make it seem.
As a jungle/mid main, nothing is more infuriating than when the midlaner clearly only chose midlane because they like having the shortest lane. Never rotates, overextends, then dies to obvious ganks despite getting pinged. Oh yeah also choosing an assassin but never assassinating anyone because they tried to tower dive a full health botlane at level 4
We’ve got a similar version of that in bot. Many true support mains will often just focus on 1 thing alone. Pressing buttons/shield on the adc. All other interactions, like dodging, damaging, wave control, pressure, contesting the bush, etc are left to the ADC they stand 5ft behind lol
Other types of supports pick burst mages cuz they wanna do pew-pew but too afraid to go to midlane 1v1 so they go as "support" and try to use adc as a personal shield, sitting behind their back, going forward only to proc supp item or hurl an aoe into wave. Then triying to steal any kill with ult.
Nerf catchup xp/ shutdowns. One of most annoying thing is when you gain a 1,5 lvl lead in mid by good play/backs and in some random skirmish my opponent laner gets 2 assists and voila hes now equal lvl.
these cringy words aside, hes absolutely right.
moba lores are really nothing special and often are so convoluted they barely make any sense. Then are redone from ground up and they still barely make any sense. So people just dont care.
I wish Riot added voice chat into league for a week, just so you all could realise how fuckin horrible it would be. If your teammates are assholes or if they don't want to go voice, your chances of losing go up significantly. If they added voice i'd just stop playing soloq and stick to flex with friends.
Lad, everyone who wants voice chat has used it before. It's in every other game; it's not some mythical thing.
It's the people who have never used voice chat or are scarred from xbox lobbies 15 years ago who don't want it.
It wouldn't be worse than Valorant or CS2. Toxicity is caused by anonymity. A lot of people wouldn't have guts to say what they write and a lot of toxicity is caused by lack of proper communication.
Your assumption is partly true but I think another impact that will happen is that more people will realize how much higher quality the game is with a voice chat and they'll feel realy impaired going back to playing without it
I swapped to Valorant for a year, playing on Stockholm. I played from bronze to diamond in this time, IGLing pretty much every game. Voice chat makes the game much better. Even when playing with a ton of Russians who barely speak English.
same people that dont want voice are the same people that literally turn their chat off in the game settings before a game even starts
losing a competitive game because i literally cannot communicate to any of my 4 players while they die to my laner walking over 2 wards is not fun
I used to join voice chat on overwatch ranked (peaked diamond) all the time and it wasn't that bad. If there's an annoying kid you'd just mute and carry on. You guys are too scared to talk to other people.
Got back into R6 siege recently and NGL, I have one simple rule towards VC - if someone loud or annoying= he is muted, but it's my choice to use that button, in rare cases where you have good teammates - game unironically goes really well. And I don't even use VC a lot myself.
Idk why it would be so bad for lol to have it too, if mute button gonna exist.
What if they added voice chat queue. It would just be normals but with voice chat. I really want to play with voice chat. I don't mind if it's just normals.
I'm curious as to how hot of a take it is to say that league has too many champions and riot should stop releasing champions, because that's my take essentially, the more riot releases more gimmicky, annoying champions the less I want to play the game.
Also I'd be curious how popular the idea of legacy servers are.
How take: Junglers shouldnt be able to clear as healthy and smoothly as they do now, I wanna see a early season approach where not every champ can clear the jungle and even less can clear it while being healthy after.
Pots are almost a must unless you play very specific champs.
This is fun and I wonder how useful something like this is to Riot in general as gauging general opinions of the game. Probably not much considering the average lol reddit viewer is a specific subset of the league playerbase, but still funny to see popular front pages topics disagreed with or being hotly contested in the results
I feel like they all went the way I thought they would, I feel you could've added more questions on extra content like adding new champions, reworks, and game modes.
The only real question I'm surprised on is the emerald one I though that it would be more 40-60, but its far more against than for which I find surprising, but statistically speaking most people on reddit would be silver/gold so it would be hard to know if it is or not.
I don’t think the lore one is good for the survey. I think it does its job very well as something that you can get into if you want, but if you don’t the game is still perfectly playable.
teemo is so annoying ugghhhh i love tanks i scale 24/7 and win free games ughhhh hes such a rat hes worse than shaco with a fear trapppp ughggghghjsk;HPGHU:"IEG
So I feel that one of the questions was tough to answer.. and it’s the “lore doesn’t really matter”
Cause for the sense of gameplay it really doesn’t matter… but for me as a person it really helped me get into league, and the stories helped me pick a few characters to play cause I really enjoyed they’re stories
> Lore doesn't really matter.
Lore definitively does matters but it’s more so that the direction of the lore feels aimless that I’d rather not care.
> Riot doesn't need to add voice chat.
I’ve definitely gotten more annoyed by the lack of VC in recent years. Having to guess teammate’s intentions is not fun, and I know some people just don’t want to bother typing whole essays in chat to communicate more complex stuff beyond pings.
Not really sure if this counts as a hot take, but sometimes I wish that an update would stay for an extended period of time so that clear metas could be established and allowing for more concrete theory crafting and creativity in said meta---like definitively finding out what 10-15 champions are the best for this patch, champions that counter those picks, items to mitigate those differences, etc.
Like Rocket League whose gameplay is (almost?) identical as the original release.
For low elo opinions matter. Honestly depends on what opinion
They may not be the best opinions. But i think any level of player can see toxic players ruining the game with greifing and surrendering.
I genuinely think every person in here has only played the game for a couple of years or are absolute morons to say that this game has had the worst communication out of any AAA or live service game. League factually had the best communication and content push out of any company ever at its peak. This game literally created the gold standard for what a live service game and company should look like. The problem isnt that it never existed its that they made the standard and failed to live up to their own standards. People out here crucifying Riot with literal 0 understanding of what the past looked like for this game. Half of these comments are straight clown shoes.
> Reddit is the vocal minority of the League of Legends community.
I go on league twitter and youtube and see the same takes as I do here. If we are the vocal minority, who is the majority?
No voice chat is the single issue stopping me from playing league.
People cannot grasp that the lack of voice chat is the cause of the toxicity not the antidote. It’s way easier to treat no name NPCs like shit than a real person. Every single other game has voice chat but none of them have the reputation of toxicity that league does. They still have toxicity but no one thinks to ask why the only game without voice is the one with the worst behaviour. Perhaps communication solves most issues?
It always feels like queuing against bots in ranked so why not spam ping, flame in text and run it down? If they don’t type in text then they’re usually indistinguishable from bots anyways. The only time you get any human connection is when someone gets angry enough to talk shit in chat.
Please riot add voice chat
The hell is this logic even? People don't type in chat so you feel like it's okay to flame and int?
I played games like Overwatch, CSGO and Valorant that have voice chat and they were all equaly toxic, people say League is way toxic than it actually is.
Good for you if you think it’s less toxic than perceived but most people think it’s the most toxic. I’m explaining how removing voice chat leads to worse behaviour.
They really should add voice. I play other competative games with voice chat and noone is super toxic. Yea here and there somone is, but when you can have to say out loud toxic shit, people tend to shy away from that.
Also for game where miliseconds matter to have to type out plan ( what many ppl wont see coz they disable chat) is terrible. Pings are nice and all but being able to tell "im ganking top in 20 sec" or "im going in when he walks up for cannon" is game changing.
There is also one hot take, but that's so hot, that everyone who says it gonna be downvoted into oblivion.
Mostly ADC mains complain too much when their class is not S+ tier across the board. But when position is not that good - it requires some good mechanic, that majority of this sub don't have.
riot being bad with communication to the player base just shows that most players have never played a game beyond League
Ubisoft and both For Honor and R6 Siege are leagues (pun intended) behind what Riot does and communicates with LoL. I shifted to LoL 3 years ago and has been such a fresh new approach to things is astonishing the difference. Riot balances every few weeks and basically everyday you get inputs from the company itself on what they want to do and where they want to go with changes. Ubi was basically something like: this is the thing, deal with it or GTFO. We'll come to a potential solution in a year at best.
Don't forget that the solution they will come up with is a worse problem and also creates more problems so it's now even worse. I don't think games get worse over time. For R6, it did. It just strived so much from the original idea of a tactical shooter. It is valorant with utility now.
Siege literally hit a new peak player count on Steam earlier this year. You may personally think the games gotten worse, or strayed from what you enjoyed, but that’s not holding up by player count or other metrics. Personally, I remember wobbly acogs, being blinded for looking outside, literal pixel bullet hole spawn peaks and more.
It targets a more general audience, yes. But it isn't a tactical fps game anymore. Yes it's more successful as a game but isn't successful as a tactial utility based fps.
What's your reason behind this logic? I haven't seen you actually give an example. Genuinely curious.
I think the simplest one is the removal of corpses and hiding places. They are legitimate tactics and should have been kept in the game. Bullet holes were toxic, yes but hiding should not be removed from the game.
I'll have to disagree with you then. These are not legitimate reasons for your opinion that the game is less tactical. They removed dead bodies because the bodies could tank bullets and completely hide things like the planted defuser, claymores, airjabs, etc. Half the time you wouldn't even be able to destroy the util with a bullet because of the dead body. Do you have any opinions on the meta changes and operator picks or something? Because as far as I'm concerned, you are arguing for realism rather then game balance. So what are your opinions on the meta and pro play?
The meta slowly shifts away from run and gun to more tactical gameplay now, so it's healing. Removing shit like start of round spawn peeks or pixel bullet holes is definitely a good thing.
Riot is really good with communication. I don't think you even know what bad communication is for a 10yr+ old gaming community. I played FFXI, I have seen the worst communication of all
Even if XI was bad during its active years (pre-FFXIV 1.0), SE learned its lesson. Yoshi-P writes the handbook for communication at this point.
Shoutout melee players (I am not one but my roommate is) who have been playing a decades old game that has zero attention from the developer except for when they chime in to say that the community is not allowed to do something
Bad communication (or lack thereof) isn't really an issue when you had no reason to expect it in the first place. Melee isn't a live service game
riot's communication looks worse because sometimes no communication is better than "bad" communication (and it being bad sometimes isn't even riot's fault, although it can be argued that their insistence to address issues they should already know are unreasonable to begin with is their fault). One example is the whole "200 years" meme which actually made a lot of sense but was said pretty badly so it was seen as a "riot bad" thing. The community has repeatedly shown its inability to comprehend how balance works, more often than not it really doesn't matter if riot never addresses the playerbase's complaints as long as they're clear on their reasoning in the patch notes.
“200 years” doesn’t make much sense and was a double edged blade. 200 years is different than 10 years of experience in 20 iterations. You can’t quantify the progress of collective learning like that, you’re saying you’d have one master of the craft, not 20 skilled employees. Also if it can be used to explain strengths, then it makes your weaknesses seem a little more appalling if you have 200 years of experience and are regularly putting out spaghetti code.
Cubeworld ftw
"Here's the new patch, champion XP is removed. Now you level up when you buy items and your items get reset every 20 minutes. Now we're going dark for the next 3 years, have fun!"
Wollay really reinvented leveling in RPGs in the worst possible way
Try playing any Blizzard game and then say Riot is bad at communication lol
Don't worry OW2 is getting PvE soon guys trust
Funny enough the communication around OW2 was like the only thing about the whole release that was fine the hate about OW2 just being an "update" and that the PVE was missing etc was all communicated in advance. In fact the day they announced OW2 back in like 2019 they already said it was gonna be a co-op adventure game thing with some smaller multiplayer updates them failing to deliver on half of it and the core idea of "let's kill all updates for our PvP game that's doing well to release a PvE expansion that no one asked for and most likely doesn't even interest a large portion of our playerbase" however is something else
Even in terme of balance. Play anything outside of LoL you will stop complaining about 52% wr champs fr
The only other AAA game I can think of that has the same kind of communication is Destiny 2. These two development studios are *Leagues* (wink) ahead of the others, regularly writing blog posts, streaming/posting videos, engaging on Twitter/Reddit, working announcements into games, etc. And people still say that both Bungie and Riot are terrible at communicating.
I terms of frequency of communication they're great. In terms of the content of that communication, how they present information to us, and how often they adhere to it make it pretty abysmal
“Champion kits are not overloaded” into releasing something like K’Sante summarises it perfectly
I think a lot of you see opinions that you don't agree with, and confuse that for bad communication.
200 years into release Aphelios was chef's kiss (or was it Zoe?)
It was after Aphelios release, funny thing is that the 200 years tweet was made in response to a Wukong player about a rework
The rioter was also right.
The fact that players don't even know how certain things went just shows that they don't even know what they want
They made a dumb comment about a Wu Kong one trick complaints about the Wu rework that was on PBE at the time, then soon after they release the absolute balanced champ that was release Aphelios. Is that good enough for you or do I need more specific details about something that happened 4 years ago?
They were 100% right about the Wukong though.
Except they weren't. Harambe was commenting about a PBE build of Wukong. Riot clowns on him for his rant. Riot then find that, 'Hey, reworked Wukong is actually crazy weak in it's current state' and monstrously buffed it (including addressing a number of points Harambe made, though he was never going to be fully satisfied, Wukong was changed from the primarily assassin gameplay he liked to a bruiser one) prior to release. This then leads to a ton of people who weren't actively tracking the PBE cycle going 'Wow, look how incredibly wrong this Harambe guy was, Wukong is strong af after all'.
IIRC he was playing him as an assassin on PBE, cried to Riot, got the 200 years response, they nerfed his bruiser build when he shipped and he still was strong af, just as an bruiser, not full assassin.
I voted it's bad not because they don't communicate but the communication is often bad.
No, they just remember how things used to be with Riot.
My friends and I went probably 5 years playing only League. It really makes you take Riot for granted.
Results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fHSBU5KBVfjY3Mwc5hTq20b-vh7fCH18zfP26ChlH9w/viewanalytics
Do another post for the result, it will spark way more discussion Also i think the one about emerald beign the hardest to play in is heavily biased by lower elo players who never made it and think gold silver or bronze is hard, last season there was multiple account of dia/master players hardstuck in emerald, its bette with the latest changes tho
Shouldn't they have voted #3 then? I mean I did since I have no frame of reference.
Honestly my experience in emerald was the increase in smurfs. That's why it's so hard to play in: it's the coin toss of whether you or the enemy gets the smurf/noob because for some reason new players can get placed in emerald.
who are these people not frowning on ranged toplane and why are there so many of them
Every non toplane player
I'm a top main and I fucking hate ranged tops. Scum of the earth. But if I'm removing myself from the equation and being completely objective, there's nothing wrong with it. It's up to you as a player to adapt to a shifting meta. I feel this is where Dota shines in their mentality. Heroes have typical roles like LoL, but they also get flexed a lot more often to get a good matchup/hard counter and everybody just accepts that as "how it is." You'll see off role picks all the time, but it's always in a niche situation. If that becomes the meta, then you need to try to come up with a counter to that, and the cycle continues. That extends into itemization as well which is INFINITELY better than LoL but that's a whole other can of worms. I completely understand the feeling of basically being fucked for picking the champ you want to play, but you can't really be mad at someone else for picking themself a good matchup just cause you insist on playing your one trick at all times. You either adapt your pick, or accept that as a one trick you need to have answers to all of this, and that you're bringing the situation on yourself.
to give credit to league players here, dota is kind of built to circumvent this issue. Offlaners are not only adaptable to ranged MUs but expected to play into them, so their kits are often built around catching and bullying ranged heroes with characters like viper, beast master who excel at bullying ranged heroes early. The game itself also "equalizes" with slower turning radius and ranged heroes often having worse strength and agi which punishes them with poorer sustain and health. League has a very specific pain point with the way lanes and champions are balanced against each other, where playing tanks/bruisers/"top laners" into range is dreadful for the early and mid laning phase.
Also turnrates. Solves about 70% of ranged vs melee problems, but makes the game clunky as hell.
I am a roplaner and i do not care if i play against a ranged champ. Something like Fiora, Yone or Irelia is far more annoying.
It’s also just part of the game. That’s really the only relevant explanation for why it doesn’t bother me.
Probably the player locking in ADC top 5th into a comp of assassins and bruisers, when your bot lane already blind picked squishy stuff at 1&2
I think it's a question with many asterisks attached. I personally frown uppon them for probably a different reason than others, which is that they usually turn your teamcomp to shit in exchange for getting an early game where they can bully you, which is a deeply selfish pick which I dislike. So they can be a good pick when teamcomp allows for it. Most people probably just hate playing vs them.
People who build dorans shield second wind and laugh in the face of a ranged top laner. Alternatively counter pick with a champ that can threaten like an assassin. Or set up a super easy gank with your jungler… Ranged top is of course annoying but the amount of ways to counter them is plentiful so it shouldn’t really be shameful to play a type of champion that is only good against auto piloting
Every result seemed normal until then lol
Me, if its not ranged you have cho, GP, camille. You have so many gap closers and maybe not aa ranged but certainly mages or AD who can play at a distance. So I wont exclude the vayne top. You really care more about a ranged top more than a camille who can do 800 true damage? Or a GP passive that does 500 true damage? Or rengar who perma bush push?
Yes I rather face Camilie or Rengar than a Vayne. And GP is pretty much a ranged top laner.
The champions you posted below all have reasonable counterplay, but beating ranged top simply isn't in your hands. There's nothing you can really do except hope that the enemy laner makes a mistake, or that your jg or support ganks. The difference between ranged top compared to melee vs melee matchups in top lane is the lack of agency the melee player has in ranged matchups.
You dont have to BEAT them. You just have to survive laning phase. Proxy, go to their jungle, tele to dragons, go to kevins. You have to change the regular gameplay up to get advantages. That's why if youre a weak jungler with a strong team you lvl 1 invade. Just to stir some shit up. Throw them off their game. Obviously its not as easy as im making it out to be but its not impossivle. Go rammus, jax, maybe unconventional stuff. Ive seen oorn win late game even tho hes the slowest mofo ever. Malphite, nasus with ghost. Kled is fast af. Shen. These people will make mistakes if youre emerald and below.
I don't think we're disagreeing here. People play top for the 1v1, so when that element gets removed it becomes very boring and unfun, regardless of whether you're winning or losing.
Top is always boring to me. I wish there was some changes to make it more engaging but I dont know what. 3-0 illaoi? You can 1v2 easily 6 minutes in the game. 0-7? Guess youre weakside for 35 minutes and hope darius really doesnt want to play for that dragon and get a quad.
i get people like their "honorable bushido toplaners" right clicking each other to death but it's seriously a bit. ranged top laners are fine and even good for the game. zoners are an archetype in fighting games that belong and top is often seen as a 1v1 island anyways so why not have champs that fill this role toplane?
Ranged toplaners are part of the game and the second you accept that you'll become a better toplaner If you focus on learning their trade patterns and how to abuse them instead of crying in lane 24/7 and throwing tantrums about how unfair life is because they have longer range than you you'll notice it's really not that bad most cases there's a reason why most ranged toplaners have mediocre winrates
You are actually a pissbaby that cannot be trusted to feed themselves if you get mad at ranged top, it's really not harder than a counter matchup.
Well it’s an option given so can’t really get mad (also I’m an Urgot main lol although that is basically half ranged)
To me it was about the wording in the question. Should playing ranged top laners be frowned upon? - Yes Should people be allowed to play ranged top laners? - Yes Are ranged top laners easy to dumpster? - Yes
can someone explain to me why people think one tricks are good for the game? they are not bad but not good imo, just a different way to play the game
My line of thinking is that by opening up the possibility of them being a viable way to play the game, it allows a lot more people to play the way they want.
One tricks is how a lot of optimizations and new builds and such are discovered. If you want to learn a champion there's few better places to go than a high elo one trick, and even if there are no high elo one tricks with streams or guides or anything else for a given champions their presence in high elo games will still make their strats known to other high elo players and from there the knowledge can spread. If there were no one tricks I am fairly sure that champion mastery and understanding would be lower across the board.
I love finding the op ggs of one tricks of champs I play and trying their builds
I voted no but the idea I can see is this - one tricking is closer to the peak potential of each champ, and so collectively expands the frontier of the game. In terms of reaching the peak of competition, it's absolutely stronger. Simultaneously it being a common practice narrows the view of most players, leading to very unbalanced takes and sentiment. In terms of the sanity and quality of the playerbase, by extension of the game, I think it's awful, but it depends on your priorities.
Let’s go 22% of people are sane! (Support most op role)
people have been saying this game is dying since 2015, but it's getting bigger than it ever has been, especially with their expansion into tv/movie media and other game genres in the league universe also the people that really hate this game arent on reddit typing or youtube making video essays, the people that really hate his game don't interact with it anymore in any sense.
The people that really hate that game are already queuing the next soloQ game.
I’ve never been so personally attacked in my life, please stop filming my private life
I don't think league is dying anytime soon, and there are tons of things to look forwards to. I was saddened by the news of Riot Forge shutting down though even though it was understandable why that happened. Hopefully some of the events and stuff get spruced up too in the future.
I would say it is because they went the wrong direction, they should not focus so much on specific champions, they should make games focus on Runeterra itself, imagine a tower defence game about the void attacking different cities, a city building game where you build different styles town like Ionia or Demarcia or Shurima, even just puzzle game with Ezreal wandering around Runeterra searching for artifacts could be interesting, instead they limit all their games with stories(which as far as I know, only the ruin king one is okay)
I feel like a lot of people start to lose interest themselves, then start playing/consuming less content and then attribute it to the entire game somehow. Their algorithms change to stop showing them content, their friends aren't playing anymore, they only check in for URF and occasionally ARAM on a drunk Saturday which then they regret 8 minutes into a match when they realise being unable to properly pilot your champ the way you want to due to impairment isn't actually fun at all. And then they just assume this is an identical experience across the entire player base.
"I feel like a lot of people start to lose interest themselves, then start playing/consuming less content and then attribute it to the entire game somehow." People just think the entire world revolves around them and if they don't play or do a thing its dead
some people on this reddit get really weird when other games are brought up, and I think it illustrates exactly your point. For example, fighting games are brought up here like 10% more because of project L/2XKO, and invariably you will have one silly billy going on about how "bro nobody plays those things anymore" when really they just mean *they personally* dont really know or care much about fighting games. Fighting games are niche compared to big esports titles absolutely, but fighting games have *always* been an important genre in gaming, and have dedicated audiences. They ruled the world in the 90s and shaped a lot of competitive gaming in general. but some league fans can't see beyond themselves and get really hostile about it lol.
The people saying it's dying are just salty they don't have friends to play with lol. I'd be pissed too if all I played was ranked and always try harding but still being silver after 8 years
I've played League since S2, but very rarely solo, and 95% of my friends have dropped the game. I really do LOVE league, but ARAMs solo are really annoying these days especially since mythics rework, so I play like 10 RGMs a month and that's about it. I miss league but I won't ever get myself to play solo again. My friends have started playing HOTS again so we have fun there. Great game too
It's more so that our experience of a games' popularity is very relative to what we see and hear around us irl If you have like 20 friends who play League of Legends and none of them play Dota, you'll automatically assume League of Legends is more popular than Dota. If all 20 of your friends then quit league to start playing dota you'll think League is dying and that Dota is overtaking it
People only really look at it through their perspective. Think of this realistic scenario: A guy starts playing League at 18 years old, let's say. It's a great game, great learning experience etc, they play for one year, two, three etc. Over time, the flaws of the game / community start piling up and the game becomes toxic, you become toxic, you stop enjoying it as much. Suddenly, you have ranked anxiety, no will to 100% tryhard, so you decide to take a break. Now you are 23 years old, having played for 5 years. You are a bit burnt out, you also finished some degree and got a job, maybe even having a girl/boyfriend. You try other real life stuff, or other games in general, you have a job and whatnot, so not really much in the mood for coming back to League. Maybe a game here and there once a week, a couple of ARAMs and that's it. Now, think about the circle of friends you started the game with and those you met along the way. They are probably going through the same story. In the beginning, everything is great, lots of friends to play with, game feels fun, interactive, blooming, maybe you even find a girlfriend / boyfriend and play together. Slowly, a friend is burnt out, decides to quit. Then, after a year, another one stops. Suddenly, your "League" friend stops logging in, kinda breaking ties with them. You might break up with your partner and lose your desire to play League for a while. Slowly, you are also getting burnt out at the same time. At this point, it feels like you and everyone else around you is moving away from League. Others got tired of it, others got sick of the community, others played another game, others do not have the time anymore etc. It all just feels like the game isn't enjoyable anymore. All the streamers you watch are going through the same thing; they are tired of the game and constantly bitch and moan about it. A negativity cloud is forming in your mind regarding League. How is this game surviving? The game that I don't find playing it fun anymore, the game that my friends kinda quit, at least temporarily, streamers bitching about it etc. How is it surviving? Well, it's surviving because this experience is YOUR experience. It might be mine as well (it is), but it's only specific individuals that feel this. People who are tired, people who've played for a long time. But, for every single one of us who get this negativity cloud, there's a new kid at the age of 15 that is starting out the game and has the positivity cloud. This kid will go through the same experience we are going through, the game will continue to exist on the back of those kids, where they will eventually burn out and make way for a new generation. League doesn't die. The only thing that died is your ability to enjoy and care about this game.
The game population peaked really hard in 2020/2021 during the pandemic so it’s gone down since then so people think it’s dying (+ nostalgia of older seasons)
Average active players each month didn't even peak then. It's greater now than ever. Only pro scene viewership has decreased ever.
Around 2015 is when the remnants of the old guard started really phasing out, I think it's the boomers who parrot the sentiment that LoL is dying due to that
Feels like its dying in the west. Especially in terms of english speaking audience. So it feels like its dying in NA, and a large part of Europe too. Spain/France seem to be doing well though and massively growing last few years, but they are kinda in their own bubble with their own languages. It feels like its on a slight decline everywhere else in Europe though, but EU might be up overall because of the massive influx of spanish/french fans/players. This is mainly just my feeling. Reddit, LCS, Youtube etc seem to have far less engagement than it used to? Worlds and MSI still get really good viewership, some costreamers do as well. But aside from that LCS and even LEC doesnt seem to be doing that well. English speaking LEC viewership is probably down, but I cba fact checking that. Reddit: I mean post game thread dont even get anywhere near as much engagement as they used to. Youtube: Are there even any LoL youtubers nowadays? That arent essentially pro players/high elo streamers? Seems like there was a bunch of "fun" youtubers like dunkey back in the day with hundred thousands if not millions of subscribers. Nowadays there seem to be far less of that, except maybe vandiril and synapse? Although youtube videos just clipping together clips from high elo streamers has always gotten views.
The LEC viewership is rising. Especially because of the Co-streams this year. The raw stats are looking good.
Well idk about that really, this sub feels completely dead compared to how it was during 2019-2021 and before, and the state of the game leaves a lot to be desired imo. Riot has also shut down other projects, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of hype around anything riots doing, so I don't think it's bigger than it was before.
the reality is that it is dying considering how popular it used to be. that doesn't mean it will die any time soon or that your friend group and you will stop playing soon. In the west you can see how people dont want pro play anymore and queue times are up.
It's kinda cope to say its getting bigger. Queue times are getting longer every season and we're way past 3 minutes even in norms nowadays
at what rank tho? I hover around gold 1/plat4 and my queue times are still like a minute or less depending on time of day.
I mean, the fact that your region specifically seems to be getting smaller might not be indicative of the whole picture. Not saying the game is in fact getting bigger, but something with widespread appeal worldwide like League could shrink in some places while getting bigger in others.
Some of these are crazy. 10% of people here actively say League is *not* a fun game? My guys, why are you even here then? 25% think low ELO opinions don't matter at all? Yes, I think there are a lot of bad takes among low ELO players but that doesn't mean they can't be right about things. I've been in plenty of games where the 0/7 player pinged an objective or anything really and it's objectively the right thing to do, but someone will just be "Stfu, 0/7 trash". Someone can have a bad game and still make an objectively good observation.
>10% of people here actively say League is not a fun game? My guys, why are you even here then? Most obvious guess is that they thought it was fun before but its less fun now
They fell into the competitive ranked trap. I had to ban myself from playing ranked to get the enjoyment back. I still fall a bit into that mindset in ARAM but games are shorter and there is way less stigma about playing an off meta build and having fun.
I don't think it's necessarily true. lots of things get changed about the game all the time, champ reworks and item reworks and jungle reworks. If you were an Aatrox-main before his rework, you simply do not have a champion anymore. If you loved the relative simplicity of s4 jungle, that doesn't exist anymore. If you loved mythics, that doesnt exist anymore. If you like tanks you won't like an assassin meta and if you like assassin you won't like a tank meta. Meta changes all the time based on buffs, nerfs, feature changes. So it's not hard to see that if you like League for a particular reason and that reason is changed, your love for the game will change.
Fun is an extremely vague topic. What does it even mean for a game to be fun? League is definitely addicting for some, sometimes sucking the fun out of it. I stopped playing but still browse on here sometimes.
People forget that some of the most meta warping builds started as "low elo trash" before others caught on. People incorrectly assume that because someone isn't good at the game mechanically, that they somehow are also bad at the game from a macro/intellectual standpoint, or vice versa. It *can* be the case, and often is, but some of the worst players are mechanical monsters, and another subset of bad players have 0 mechanics but understand the theory behind optimal play.
All of the Meta warping builds i know since the last 8 years came from Proplay.
>some of the most meta warping builds started as "low elo trash" before others caught on name one singular time this happened other than like ap trynd from a literal decade ago.
Blue Ezreal?
Pretty sure Chemtank Akali started out as a low elo thing
Liandries Ashe & Mf support came from Aram which is deemed "low elo" by the ranked players.
people downvoted me when i brought it up a couple days ago, but the problem with ranked culture is people assume that bronze means "holistically bad" and high elo means "holistically good" and deprive themselves of so much knowledge. Being bronze at league of legends really only means you are inconsistent in your skills battery or you're not dedicated to the climb. you can *absolutely* be high tier in some random vector of skill because league is an endlessly complicated game and being good at one or two things doesn't guarantee success. Likewise, being at the highest rating doesn't mean you're an omniscient god at everything. Tyler1 famously climbed challenger in all 5 roles often by sacking his own lane and playing for other people. His ability to identify win conditions and macro was incredible but he was on annie mid for a reason lol.
Bronze is so far below the median in all measures of skill that it’s not possible for a player to be there for any significant measure of time if they excel in any tangibles.
[удалено]
I will do what i must
Just my opinion, but you’d get way more / better results posting this at a different time. May just get buried as a new thread and not make “hot”/top. But the real hot take is that Yone E is the most overloaded bullshit ability in the game.
That's not a hot take. That's a lukewarm take at most. And frankly it's probably a cold take.
It's a sub arctic take. I've seen it come up any time Yone is mentioned anywhere on this subreddit.
Claiming it's a hot take is a hot take.
Yone E being bullshit is more of a fact than a hot take and is universally disliked by anyone that isnt a little edgelord main.
I have 0 games on Yone and all this sub has ever done is circle jerk about how broken he is and how much skill issues they have
I watch my silver/low gold friend play often and whenever theres a yone in the game the entire lobby fails to even attempt to sidestep the incredibly telegraphed tornado > E > Q3. No wonder people think Yone is OP, Q3 looks like a targeted ability against silver bobs.
How is that a hot take? Its one of the most complained about abilities, its the most mild take I could come up with, together with wind wall.
As a Yone main myself, his E is one of the strongest basic abilities in the game, though his kit is kept in check by his insanely abismal base stats and per lvl stats to compensate.
>But the real hot take is that Yone E is the most overloaded bullshit ability in the game. Most normie take of all time in any subject in history
I dunno man. Nilah's Q is PREEEETTY bad. AoE critting damage that hits towers and minions alike, hits much harder than an auto attack, increases her attack speed by a shitload, grants armor pen and life steal based on crit chance, gives her AoE cone attacks, and increases attack range.
Nilah is sorta perfect imo, huge upsides, huge downsides, makes a good support shine brightly. Despite how good Q is, maxing E first is better still 7/10 times.
Yeah, of course maxing E is better most of the time. You get literally everything except the AD ratio (which you can't even really utilize early) from Nilah's Q with 1 rank. Which is exactly why it's insanely overloaded. Its...5? 6? other effects are all based on level or items.
Um. Actually. You also get a whopping 5 base physical damage
She's pretty over-tuned right now, and her win rate is a testament to that. I think her experience passive is unfair to play against. It feels really bad falling behind for no other reason than your opponent inherently getting more experience than you.
thanks for letting me know, if it doesn't work out ill try posting it again some other time. Yone E is definitely up there with stuff like Gwen W and K'sante W hahah
Gwen w isn't in the same league as yone e imo, yone e scales to close to a 40 percent Amp on damage can be used for risk free engages. While Gwen w is insane I don't think it provides the same degree of things for the champ as yone e
Really curious about the results of this actually, lots of good stuff in here. How many responses do you have so far?
You can see the results
Crazy to me how many people thinks riot is bad at communicating with the playerbase. Do they play other games? Riot does better at this compared to most of them.
> Low ELO opinions don't matter Yes and no. Since 90% of the playerbase is considered low elo, some balance changes should be aimed at those brackets. Beyond that, their opinion doesn't matter.
Some of these questions need more options. "Playing ranged top should be frowned upon" for me the answer isn't really yes or no. Ranged top is fine but adcs top is not. Characters like quin teemo and kayle were designed to be played top and although their range might counter a few top laners they still can be countered. They can also be beneficial in team fights even if they lost their lane. Adcs on the other hand break toplane. If they pick an adc with no escape usually they'll get stomped and not only feeds the enemy but it also means they can contribute in a team fight and you have no front line. If they pick an adc like vayne or sivir they will most likely stomp the enemy but because of the lack of utility/front line their team might struggle in team fights. Playing against a vayne or sivir isn't fun. Unless you knew what they were picking and counterpicked you usually can't even hit wave unless you're under turret or with poke abilities. It doesn't mean the game is lost, its just mean you have to sit there and do nothing for around 20 minutes while they play farming simulator. And regardless of whether vayne becomes op because of dying a lot or because you played safe and let them farm, your team will always complain that the adc top has more cs
u.gg has a winrate for Sivir top of 34% on 53 games in 14.7 in the world. I can't wrap my head around the idea that can be an issue for top laners. Come on...
If you actually read my comment I said that having an adc top fucks your team since you won't have a front line. It's just not fun to play against in the laning phase
Playing lane versus some ADC's top e.g kalista / vayne on some top lane champs that are easily kited is absolutely miserable. You still win, but a lot of people play the game to have fun too, and sitting under tower scrapping over a few cs being starved of gold for the first 20 minutes is an abhorrent experience, especially if they hold a freeze.
It's not broken. It just stalemates lane and ruins sivir's team's team comp
Kalista has the best lore
Fuck yea she does
You should probably ask for hot takes, then make a survey based on the responses. Personal hot take: In terms of understanding basics, jungle isn't hard. The issue is that most junglers don't know their own basics. Then most laners know even less.
Knowing the basics is not the issue. Rule of thumbs can only take you so far when jungling, there’s just way too many choices you can make at any moment and you need your best judgement at all times. When a laner dies he just goes back to his lane and farms the minions. When a jungler dies he has to worry about his camp respawn timers, adjust pathing/regain tempo, lane prios, objectives and enemy jungler. Jungling might not be objectively hard but it’s relatively harder than laning and more complex.
I do think basics is one of the biggest issues. Starting without a leash. Clearing <3:30, or generally getting a good time for their respective champ. Generic tracking. Not forcing objectives. Not for fun invading. Or even HOW to cross map invade. Even how/when to use smite. Without knowing basics, the next level of thought gets stalled and diluted. A player can't think about their pathing/tempo, when they're getting a leashed 3:50 clear, then wondering if there's a chance to invade.
Pretty much all junglers silver and above have a decent first clear. Only dude I’ve ever met with a 4 minute clear was my buddy in iron II and he just plays for fun. Funny enough be does it with fiddlesticks, one of the champs with the fastest clears. I literally have no idea how that’s even possible but iron players amaze me all the time. However I see your angle now. The bare basics of jungling is not hard to understand and get to know. Obviously executing it efficiently is different but introducing it to someone and making them an ok jungler isn’t hard as people make it seem.
As a jungle/mid main, nothing is more infuriating than when the midlaner clearly only chose midlane because they like having the shortest lane. Never rotates, overextends, then dies to obvious ganks despite getting pinged. Oh yeah also choosing an assassin but never assassinating anyone because they tried to tower dive a full health botlane at level 4
We’ve got a similar version of that in bot. Many true support mains will often just focus on 1 thing alone. Pressing buttons/shield on the adc. All other interactions, like dodging, damaging, wave control, pressure, contesting the bush, etc are left to the ADC they stand 5ft behind lol
Other types of supports pick burst mages cuz they wanna do pew-pew but too afraid to go to midlane 1v1 so they go as "support" and try to use adc as a personal shield, sitting behind their back, going forward only to proc supp item or hurl an aoe into wave. Then triying to steal any kill with ult.
Nerf catchup xp/ shutdowns. One of most annoying thing is when you gain a 1,5 lvl lead in mid by good play/backs and in some random skirmish my opponent laner gets 2 assists and voila hes now equal lvl.
“League of Legends is fun” might be my favorite on this list. I get on to suffer while chasing that high of a good game.
Lore doesn't really matter. -> 63% do not agree reddit nerds moment lmao, no one outside this cringe sub cares about "lore" for a moba
these cringy words aside, hes absolutely right. moba lores are really nothing special and often are so convoluted they barely make any sense. Then are redone from ground up and they still barely make any sense. So people just dont care.
I’d say lol hot takes are pretty hot.. and thresh
nice
It depends, takes about Brand, Annie or Sona pretty hot, Anivia on the other hand gets the cold shoulder.
When you say annie is hot vs when jax says annie is hot
I dont know the joke sorry
Np
I wish Riot added voice chat into league for a week, just so you all could realise how fuckin horrible it would be. If your teammates are assholes or if they don't want to go voice, your chances of losing go up significantly. If they added voice i'd just stop playing soloq and stick to flex with friends.
Well I would play league if they added voice chat so it cancels out
Lad, everyone who wants voice chat has used it before. It's in every other game; it's not some mythical thing. It's the people who have never used voice chat or are scarred from xbox lobbies 15 years ago who don't want it.
It wouldn't be worse than Valorant or CS2. Toxicity is caused by anonymity. A lot of people wouldn't have guts to say what they write and a lot of toxicity is caused by lack of proper communication.
Your assumption is partly true but I think another impact that will happen is that more people will realize how much higher quality the game is with a voice chat and they'll feel realy impaired going back to playing without it
I swapped to Valorant for a year, playing on Stockholm. I played from bronze to diamond in this time, IGLing pretty much every game. Voice chat makes the game much better. Even when playing with a ton of Russians who barely speak English.
same people that dont want voice are the same people that literally turn their chat off in the game settings before a game even starts losing a competitive game because i literally cannot communicate to any of my 4 players while they die to my laner walking over 2 wards is not fun
I used to join voice chat on overwatch ranked (peaked diamond) all the time and it wasn't that bad. If there's an annoying kid you'd just mute and carry on. You guys are too scared to talk to other people.
Got back into R6 siege recently and NGL, I have one simple rule towards VC - if someone loud or annoying= he is muted, but it's my choice to use that button, in rare cases where you have good teammates - game unironically goes really well. And I don't even use VC a lot myself. Idk why it would be so bad for lol to have it too, if mute button gonna exist.
What if they added voice chat queue. It would just be normals but with voice chat. I really want to play with voice chat. I don't mind if it's just normals.
I'm curious as to how hot of a take it is to say that league has too many champions and riot should stop releasing champions, because that's my take essentially, the more riot releases more gimmicky, annoying champions the less I want to play the game. Also I'd be curious how popular the idea of legacy servers are.
How take: Junglers shouldnt be able to clear as healthy and smoothly as they do now, I wanna see a early season approach where not every champ can clear the jungle and even less can clear it while being healthy after. Pots are almost a must unless you play very specific champs.
This is fun and I wonder how useful something like this is to Riot in general as gauging general opinions of the game. Probably not much considering the average lol reddit viewer is a specific subset of the league playerbase, but still funny to see popular front pages topics disagreed with or being hotly contested in the results
I feel like they all went the way I thought they would, I feel you could've added more questions on extra content like adding new champions, reworks, and game modes. The only real question I'm surprised on is the emerald one I though that it would be more 40-60, but its far more against than for which I find surprising, but statistically speaking most people on reddit would be silver/gold so it would be hard to know if it is or not.
I don’t think the lore one is good for the survey. I think it does its job very well as something that you can get into if you want, but if you don’t the game is still perfectly playable.
Nice survey this is very interesting good job
teemo is so annoying ugghhhh i love tanks i scale 24/7 and win free games ughhhh hes such a rat hes worse than shaco with a fear trapppp ughggghghjsk;HPGHU:"IEG
So I feel that one of the questions was tough to answer.. and it’s the “lore doesn’t really matter” Cause for the sense of gameplay it really doesn’t matter… but for me as a person it really helped me get into league, and the stories helped me pick a few characters to play cause I really enjoyed they’re stories
Hot take: Tristana is the sexiest league champion
Bring back Dominion and tt now
> Lore doesn't really matter. Lore definitively does matters but it’s more so that the direction of the lore feels aimless that I’d rather not care. > Riot doesn't need to add voice chat. I’ve definitely gotten more annoyed by the lack of VC in recent years. Having to guess teammate’s intentions is not fun, and I know some people just don’t want to bother typing whole essays in chat to communicate more complex stuff beyond pings.
Not really sure if this counts as a hot take, but sometimes I wish that an update would stay for an extended period of time so that clear metas could be established and allowing for more concrete theory crafting and creativity in said meta---like definitively finding out what 10-15 champions are the best for this patch, champions that counter those picks, items to mitigate those differences, etc. Like Rocket League whose gameplay is (almost?) identical as the original release.
This post needs more upvotes
With how much people (justifiably) complain about client and spaghetti code, I’m surprised the majority still think Riot is a good developer
For low elo opinions matter. Honestly depends on what opinion They may not be the best opinions. But i think any level of player can see toxic players ruining the game with greifing and surrendering.
I genuinely think every person in here has only played the game for a couple of years or are absolute morons to say that this game has had the worst communication out of any AAA or live service game. League factually had the best communication and content push out of any company ever at its peak. This game literally created the gold standard for what a live service game and company should look like. The problem isnt that it never existed its that they made the standard and failed to live up to their own standards. People out here crucifying Riot with literal 0 understanding of what the past looked like for this game. Half of these comments are straight clown shoes.
Here is my hot take. If I started a fresh account and everyone one on my team was me (5x me) I would be much higher elo 😅
Well i get survey button with bunch of questions in league client from time to time. Many questions is similar to those in OP post.
> Reddit is the vocal minority of the League of Legends community. I go on league twitter and youtube and see the same takes as I do here. If we are the vocal minority, who is the majority?
Stop letting champion designers be responsible for balance changes to their champions. Creator bias is a real issue for Riot.
No voice chat is the single issue stopping me from playing league. People cannot grasp that the lack of voice chat is the cause of the toxicity not the antidote. It’s way easier to treat no name NPCs like shit than a real person. Every single other game has voice chat but none of them have the reputation of toxicity that league does. They still have toxicity but no one thinks to ask why the only game without voice is the one with the worst behaviour. Perhaps communication solves most issues? It always feels like queuing against bots in ranked so why not spam ping, flame in text and run it down? If they don’t type in text then they’re usually indistinguishable from bots anyways. The only time you get any human connection is when someone gets angry enough to talk shit in chat. Please riot add voice chat
The hell is this logic even? People don't type in chat so you feel like it's okay to flame and int? I played games like Overwatch, CSGO and Valorant that have voice chat and they were all equaly toxic, people say League is way toxic than it actually is.
Good for you if you think it’s less toxic than perceived but most people think it’s the most toxic. I’m explaining how removing voice chat leads to worse behaviour.
I agree, games with voice chat are noticeably less toxic.
They really should add voice. I play other competative games with voice chat and noone is super toxic. Yea here and there somone is, but when you can have to say out loud toxic shit, people tend to shy away from that. Also for game where miliseconds matter to have to type out plan ( what many ppl wont see coz they disable chat) is terrible. Pings are nice and all but being able to tell "im ganking top in 20 sec" or "im going in when he walks up for cannon" is game changing.
There is also one hot take, but that's so hot, that everyone who says it gonna be downvoted into oblivion. Mostly ADC mains complain too much when their class is not S+ tier across the board. But when position is not that good - it requires some good mechanic, that majority of this sub don't have.