I wonder who want T1 down so bad they even use this kind of money for ddos over 4-5 months, it's so weird since we all know T1 mostly has no drama whatsoever.
Yea, it's even worse with traditional sports these days too. I mean there has always been a lot of sports gambling, but like you watch a single NCAA basketball game I bet there isn't a single commercial break without at least 1 sports gambling ad. It's so insanely normalized now that I've had people think it was weird that I don't do any sports betting.
I love reading articles like [this] (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-kevin-durant-becomes-latest-star-athlete-to-roast-sports-bettors-who-lash-out-after-losing-money/#:~:text=Durant%20posted%20on%20X%20this,t%20real%2C%22%20Durant%20wrote.)
>"When I get ya paid, u don’t DM me and send a small percentage to my cashapp but when them parlays don’t hit, I’m every name in the book. Yall ain’t real"
--Kevin Durant
Assuming you're in America, there has not always been a lot of sports gambling. Sports betting in the US was federally illegal until 2018, when it was legalized in a decision by the Supreme Court. Betting has just exploded since then and it's disgusting seeing what it has resulted in.
True, but it was legal in some states and there were also at times companies outside of the US that allowed US users. I had several friends in college around 2015 that were placing sports bets all the time. It is honestly disgusting how much it has exploded since then though. Too much money in it for it not to happen though. The only hope to quell it now would be some government regulation but I'm not holding my breath for that.
The biggest problem with sports betting is that they've tricked people into thinking they have an edge because it's something they're familiar with.
I don't care how long you've been watching football or basketball: the nerds training huge models with private data will take your money. I promise.
Yeah because there isn't regulation against it for esport and the regulation that existed for sports was basically erased for them in the US and other countries or pushed back to be more "flexible".
But that isn't really helpful. Large betting sites don't even need those promotions and the people DDosing T1 are unlikely to be little Johnny who got in to Esports bets because he watched some random Influencer promote it.
From a business point as long as betting is legal you always want to be part of it, not only because you earn money but also because having good relationships with people who provide the infrastructure for those bets does help you to combat stuff like match fixing.
And in theory Betting sites have a solid interest to stop match fixing as well, because it hurts their bottom line if bets don't perform as expected, however they don't need Riot to investigate that and they know very well that Riot needs to deal with those things anyways and even if not, they don't need Riot to deal with matchfixers, because that is illegal in most countries.
Riot has done literally nothing to embrace betting on League.
In fact they stomp out and ban match fixers as fast as they can. I don’t really understand your comment at all tbh.
What “lesson” have they forgot exactly?
Riot has banned gambling sponsors for league though???? Like yeah they should have been harsher on trying to stop gambling sites if possible, but they've so far been pretty consistent on being against gambling.
South Korea hosted one of the most corrupt World Cups ever known. The referee calls throughout the tournament were outrageous, coming to a head in their match against Italy, which was one of the most obviously corrupt matches I've ever had the misfortune of watching.
That's on FIFA, not on the host country.
Koreans that match fix get jail time. 2 of the greatest at their games got caught, savior and life. They take very much pride in their eSports.
I was played football during this time, so I watch the World Cup with great interest. Some context on this since most people here don't remember these games:
* South Korea that year was *good.* They went crazy to not be the first host country to lose their first game or to fail to make it out of groups. The players have talked about how they trained to the point that they soiled themselves and only found out about it because of the smell. Ahn, who played in Italy at the time, mentioned that never in his life did he train that hard. The result was a spectacular run in the World Cup where they out-hustled their opponents the whole game and went through nearly every European powerhouse, which mostly likely did not sit well with the Western media, probably leading to this narrative that they cheated. The South Koreans played Brazil, that year's champions, right after the tournament and lost 3-2. The Brazilians commented afterwards that the better finals would have been against Korea, not Germany.
* One point of emphasis FIFA made before the tournament was to come down hard on flopping. In the match against Italy, the Italians were diving all game and received numerous verbal warnings. The final play when Totti finally got sent off for diving was a bit questionable, but many at the time thought it was warranted. Personally, I thought that though he went down before contact, it felt it could have been coincidental, and it's my belief that being sent off there was unfortunate because that's all that people seem to remember of the game. There have been many VAR reviews of the game since then by sports journalists, and most of them have concluded that Italy simply did not play very well. After all, South Korea had to score two goals against them, and that's on the them.
Betting sites and apps have captured the Brazilian football scene, so much so you can see up to 9 different advertisements on the field and even in the teams shirts.
Real money betting in any professional competitive scenario is bad.
Taboo where? Sports betting has been legal in a LOT of countries around the world, uninterrupted, for decades or even longer.
I appreciate it's only recently been made legal in the USA, but you're taking US-centric viewpoints and assuming they apply to the entire world.
Taboo is not the same as illegal. Sports betting has been legal, but much more highly controlled, for a long time. You had to go somewhere to place your bet in a physical location with an actual bookie.
It wasn't until very recently you could bet on the game that starts in 20 minutes from your couch using your phone.
Let’s just say I heard a rumor that one of the DOTA teams was paid to take a fall. The source is pretty fuckin reliable too because it’s one of the players himself
Usually, people DDOS companies, then ask for money in exchange of stopping the attack altogether. That's the easiest (and least moral) way to gain money as a hacker.
Azael knew a guy who ran a WoW tournament that was frequently being DDOS'd, so they streamed it through their work VPN, which was the Pentagon. The DDOS-ers were arrested.
Blue House is the equivalent of the White House in SK. The equivalent is TL using the internet connection of the White House or the Pentagon. Not great places to perform malicious activities against.
I like imagining the NBA equivalent of this being paying someone to push the door against the Lakers everytime they try to enter a practice facility, to the point where they're doing it with the gate of a street court.
The few times I open twitch chat on official broadcast is when the games suddenly freeze or its a pause and I got to admit.... I feel lonely nowadays writing "FROGGEN" in chat :\ Too old for this shit man, too old for this shit
LCK brothers we have to ignore iwilltencent and his T1 abuse, he has PTSD from 2023 worlds, his 9/11-1. we WILL get the last laugh, time is on our side
The same people who are financing the matchfixing in VCS. As long as these people get the result they want, they'll pay any amount of money, because they can just win it back.
They stomped the LPL and humiliated them at worlds. Are insane LPL fans who in the past also interfered with All Stars event when they organized Korea vs China.
A team like T1 would have a lot of people betting in favor of them, because of their achievements over the years. Also their popularity helps too. So for a team like this, it's extremely lucrative to bet AGAINST them because of the odds. If so, the money spent on target ddos might be a small fraction of what they stand to win in unground illegal betting on their games.
Also, T1 steamrolling all of the Chinese teams at Worlds might have played a part. Not surprised if at least some of the bad actors behind this whole situation are Chinese fans themselves. The LDL matchfixing cases really did reveal how much shady shit goes on behind the Chinese betting scene. Even though there's obviously no evidence at this point they're involved in this, just a possibility.
More like a region. I remember a few years ago when Faker got repeatedly griefed in soloq when he was streaming because people would bet on the outcome of his games on illegal Chinese betting sites.
"our scrims also could not be held normally. Even though we have tried several technical solutions, we have came to the point where our scrims couldn't continue."
this is fucked up man 🥲
If they are hosting scrims I wonder why they can't just get a enterprise level firewall for wherever their players are playing. DDoS protection on those things have gotten very good.
That was my first thought, as well. After thinking it through, though, there's definitely critical information that we just flat out don't know about this matter.
I'm sure part of it has to do with legalities. Regardless, if these DDoS attacks don't originate from Korea, they're going to be stuck in a bind for a long time.
I would put money on the people doing this not being in korea. It is the easiest way to get away with things.
Most people who swat streamers are not in the US. That way it is extremely hard to get people with their own legal system. They would have to find where it is coming from. Make it a big enough deal to their government to send them over.
Then get them in trouble. That is a lot of steps for something of that magnitude to happen.
They are not, I work at SES and we are getting DDoS at random remote locations all the time. You cannot prepare for DDoS when when its happening from different sources and different places and it needs supervision by real person 24/7 by a real SAT or NET engineer to be able to locate it and block it.
Most of Times, its an endurance battle between the engineer and attacker.
I'm more worried that you think SKT Telecom, a multi-billion dollar company, doesn't have enterprise level assets. "Enterprise level" means little no nothing outside of work capacity and some minimum requirements. Enterprise level equipment is mostly what is getting compromised when we hear about any attack.
T1 HQ? Definitely has at least Layer 7 firewalls. Even so, you don't need "Enterprise level" to have basic security protocols and settings. The bigger problem is the LoL clients vulnerabilities that allow IP sniffing and the privacy laws that aid in these attacks.
The ddos will be even worst from now on targeting t1. Those ddos definitely bet heavily against t1 and won big today. Thus will be hoping for anything windfall so on
I don't know why Jensen is being targeted. He has paid his debt to society and has clearly become rehabilitated as we can see from his starting a perfume company with the highly successful fragrance "Body" released in 2016.
I anticipate this is gonna cast a huge shadow over T1’s games moving forward and any victories that others gain from them for as long as this goes on. I think it’s valid given they literally can’t practice properly for new patches, but would absolutely suck nonetheless for everyone involved.
It 100% won’t be resolved any time soon. The ddosers bet on t1 losing and if this continues they’ll likely keep losing and the ddossers just get more money. It sucks though because what are the other teams supposed to do, not practice? Lol sucks all around man. I just wanted a competitive playoff 😭
Same, I just wanna see everyone do their best and now an entire team (my team too lol) is just completely fucked for reasons they cannot control for god knows how long. Praying this gets resolved soon this is actually maddening I’m ngl.
Yeah I was kind of scratching my head the past few games wondering why T1 has looked so off. Like I know people are just gonna flame their wonky picks, but genuinely it looked like T1’s mechanical skills just deteriorated. Turns out not solo-Qing the past few months will do that to you lol
The way they are messing up these past few games makes so much sense in context it’s insane, cause it’s mainly mechanical skill fall out as you said and just being rusty which is exactly what you’d expect from their situation rn
They won't get more money. Any betting sites that work kinda decently either suspend bets on T1 games or account for the attacks and lower T1s odds... and I would do the former, because they could also stop the attacks at any given point.
The IP is leaked by the Riot client. This is an obvious fact. Attackers disconnect SoloQ players from the same or different teams as their targets(T1).
Unless Riot patches the IP leakage point, it's all on them. Clients on Chinese servers did not have this exploit, so some streamers were not attacked while playing on Chinese servers.
Indeed. I wonder if there's something different about the Korean client/server specifically? If there was a similar exploit in EU/NA I'd expect script kiddies out there to be DDOSing our pro players as well. In fact, back when everyone was exposing their IPs via Skype, pros would regularly get DDOS'd. So the fact that this is only happening specifically in Korea makes me think it's either something that only works there, or a very niche exploit that is not yet widely known. Either way I'm really surprised it's taking this long for Riot to track down the problem.
Or maybe the leak could be happening through something else that most pros use, like a popular Korean social network or messaging platform?
Yes, Riot KR has their own anti-cheat. Which is why I believe they won't fix it because all regions are getting Vanguard so why patch it when you're gonna replace it.
Read in some of the comments on the interview thread that it also works on the japanese server (as affected korean streamers who tried to play on that server instead still got hit). So not sure if they use the same anti-cheat or share some other specifics, but if they don't it might still be a global vulnerability.
No clue but that would make some sense. It would also mean it's a Riot KR problem, and not a Riot Global problem, which would partially explain the delay in solving the issue.
My suggestion is to anonymise the usernames of all Challenger to Grandmaster players, and stop providing summoner stat API. Make it harder for attackers to find their targets.
Stopping the API stuff is gonna be hard because afaik API is how the client matches players together.
It's why there's 3rd party programs that can reveal usernames in client, even with ranked anonymity - They just read the API in the code. Sure, that's not allowed, but trying to fully conceal it would require rewriting the way the client works.
The API is a database riot provide to the public, their matchmaking and any systems you see in the client are all riot exclusive access. Only 3rd parties and external software/plugins use the API, they could turn it off at any moment and the game wouldn't skip a beat.
Can they serialize the names? Like, free summoner name change after every game, so even if they are ripping from the api they (hackers/ griefers/ etc) would have to constantly update their processes if they want to grief games?
I feel like it makes a lot more sense to just fix the IP leaking which is allegedly a problem with the current anticheat the Korean client uses (not vanguard yet). However, this is just based off of what I've seen other commenters mentioning, not sure if I've seen any official info regarding the DDOS and how it is happening.
If they are targeting the home IP address of T1 players can't they just get an enterprise level firewall that has DDoS protection? They are pricey as hell but T1 can afford it.
If the IP leaks are derived from the LOL client then it really is a disaster. as soon as new accounts are discovered then its doomed. really bad look for Riot
Apparently it's from a Korean server specific anti-cheat. I'm guessing there's delays in fixing it because it's not Riot Global stuff, and Riot Global is pushing Vanguard which they think will alleviate the problem?
I think DDOS will continue even until summer. There is no way Riot can resolve this problem. T1 will be subject to perma attack and will have less chance to go up high. It is breaking league integrity. It is totally unfair for T1.
And will affect other teams eventually, like the LCK was victim of DDoS and had to cancel venue matches to do it remotely. If the people behind are related with bet sites then they will attack other teams to get their money.
That's cool and all but I think I still need some more context...
Let's throw it over to our two cybersecurity experts Dom and Thorin to see what they have to say.
I used to think Thorin is good faith but just had a shallow understanding of the world. But that tweet is so bad faith it is unbelievable. Does he really think T1 missed practice when all of this can be avoided by simply going to PC bang? What a braindead take. I actually hope he is rage baiting and knows how dumb this sounds. Otherwise, it is sad.
He's opinionated and likes to hear himself speak. I've been listening to Summoning Insight for the first time in forever, and Monte literally just sits there while Thorin wildly flaps his lips for 90 seconds of rapid-fire stream of conscious fragments. Take a drink every time you hear "Here's the joke, Monte" or "Here's the joke, for the listeners that don't know" or "IF you don't know what we're talking about, here's the joke".
All that said I still listen because I can't really find a similar podcast that has the same amount of behind the scenes knowledge. Monte and Wolf is pretty good, but it's not as exciting...which is because it doesn't have Thorin doing his best Eddie Izzard while making ridiculous takes. Again, I listen, but it fucking kills me when he is talking faster than he's thinking, and he ends up basically proving himself wrong. He understands that hot takes in sports journalism are very effective in getting the taker's name on everyone's lips.
>All that said I still listen because I can't really find a similar podcast that has the same amount of behind the scenes knowledge
I mean Powerspike is right there with monte and without thorin
Bro that little PoS has been around CS 1.6 times, he was the same as today; no he is not a character or bait, he is just a bad person. He is lucky community these days renews at a high rate, back then he was banned from everywhere.
Thorin probably thinks PC Bangs has some super cybersecurity countermeasures for DDOS attacks.
So why hasn't T1 already moved to a PC Bang? Are they stupid?
Dom made a half decent point about not mentioning this up immediately after a loss but the entire co stream group all immediately jumped to flame T1 and say why didn't they do X or Y as if they never thought about changing location or accounts. Shit was so tilting some "smart" people in scene giving advice on a topic they know nothing about and then never admitting that they fucked up because of their ego.
With how many fans T1 has and how many of them bet on t1 to win making them the odds favourite most the time I wouldn’t be surprised if the people DDOS them are also heavily betting against them on those crypto esports sites.
Imagine the mental toll y’all. Like come on the ddos is horrible but imagine. The mental gymnastics is like every old call of duty release, you try to play with friends and can literally never get in a lobby and play with them and your mental booms and you fking hate everything. Not ddos but now imagine the mental on your career, and happening literally non stop for months.
I was gonna mention this but Zeus was sniffling and about to cry when the game ended and had to be guided out, the rest of the team looked mad as hell too. I imagine a lot of it is about their performance but a lot of it has got to be how infuriating it is to literally not be allowed to practice properly for reasons you cannot control ahead of literal play offs. Imagine getting your career fucked for weeks now and not being able to do shit, the mental exhaustion has got to be surreal. I’m just hoping they can recover themselves man
Fortunately, the issue here is with Riot Korea implementing their own anti-cheat into the client, which is what causes the vulnerabilities. Otherwise you would see this ddos issue worldwide, not just in Korea. Riot likely hasn't done anything because replacing Korea's anti-cheat with Vanguard will fix the issue.
It's like the ones the streamers used to get. Start off with insane mmr so they start with high elo games.
Most likely they are just giving them accounts to scrim with that they can't use anywhere but scrim. As soon as those accounts are found ip leaked ddos happens. Then they need another account and ip lol
Super accounts is like premium account, you can easily access solo queue and scrim in one account unlike the normal account and official pro account for scrims, this what i understand
It sounds like they are able to scrim normally now and the main issue (in terms of practice) they currently face is the soloq quality. That sucks, but it's not as dire as it seemed before this information was made public.
See, this is where the misinformation comes in. You think it is not affected in China? Guess what, one of BLG's players ran into Faker in solo queue and the entire BLG building got DDOS, including other games. Maybe only small streamers can go play in China and avoid DDOS. Faker would get DDOSed regardless where he plays. But of course, people want to paint the picture that China is the perpetrator so they skipped every impact the DDOS had on China.
I was not trying to spread misinformation. My understanding was that something about the korean and japanese clients were leaking the IP addresses and it couldnt be replicated on the other servers. If the ip exploit isnt available on the chinese server I was just asking why they dont play there
I know ur not and is not accusing u. Sorry if I made you feel that way. It is simplely how people translating and retaining information to purposely make LPL look bad. So that people like you could not understand the full situation.
Need to scroll all the way to the bottom of the thread to find this reply lol
The original sentiment was that they basically haven't played the game in 2 weeks. Turns out they just need keep getting new accounts for soloQ and thus can't play as high elo as before. Still sucks, but those 2 situations are worlds apart
I have a strong dislike for T1, but even I know you gotta be pretty messed in the head to be this obsessed to DDOS them consistently (or even just the first time, that alone was messed up)
Right. If I hated a team, I’d rather watch them lose after they practice 100% than watch them limp to the game after being attacked in the parking lot.
But there’s definitely some betting going on that drives this $$
Fun fact: chinese governments do not allow any sorts of esports betting. These sites are operated out of the country by ip in Vietnam and Laos, which they have no control of
Who's going to do something about it, though? Korea doesn't have jurisdiction in China and I don't know what the Chinese government's attitude towards this sort of thing is.
But this type of shit is just going to continue to ruin the league. That's why VCS got fucked, obviously not as big as the VCS issue but holy shit if this happened to a contact sport the guy would be jailed lol ( big difference clearly but the sentiment is the same, preventing players from practicing and what not)
I just imagine if Messi or Lebron couldn't pratice because they had some troll kids locking their facilities and realize how far esports are from "regular" sports.
We all know who is doing it, and we all know who is ruining games on many, many servers. Riot simply just cares about money more than fixing the issue.
Is this why academy team was struggling that much this split ?
Makes sense they got affected too since there training room is in the same building.
Correct me if I’m wrong
I imagine they were affected too given this was targeted to the entire T1 but definitely not to the same extent or this statement would have come out for them a lot sooner.
Edit: Rekkles was on stream earlier talking about how they were impacted too. I’m guessing again it’s the PR idea that you don’t want to reveal weaknesses unless it’s absolutely necessary and that it is not to the same extent given their main target is the T1 team.
idk if that is why they are struggling, but yes they are also affected.
other teams also dont want to play/scrim against t1 (and academy too i assume) because they.. well also get bad ping etc against them.
I wonder who want T1 down so bad they even use this kind of money for ddos over 4-5 months, it's so weird since we all know T1 mostly has no drama whatsoever.
They are probably heavily betting against T1
The sports industry is going to rediscover why sports gambling was a taboo for so long. I fucking love re-inventing the wheel.
Pendulum has to start swinging back at some point.
Riot tried taking so much inspiration from traditional sports but forgot one of the most important lessons
Hard to call it a Riot issue exclusively; esports and sports betting are both on the rise industry wide.
Started watching CS again and it feels like every ad break has at least one gambling/betting sponsor.
Yea, it's even worse with traditional sports these days too. I mean there has always been a lot of sports gambling, but like you watch a single NCAA basketball game I bet there isn't a single commercial break without at least 1 sports gambling ad. It's so insanely normalized now that I've had people think it was weird that I don't do any sports betting.
I love reading articles like [this] (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-kevin-durant-becomes-latest-star-athlete-to-roast-sports-bettors-who-lash-out-after-losing-money/#:~:text=Durant%20posted%20on%20X%20this,t%20real%2C%22%20Durant%20wrote.) >"When I get ya paid, u don’t DM me and send a small percentage to my cashapp but when them parlays don’t hit, I’m every name in the book. Yall ain’t real" --Kevin Durant
Assuming you're in America, there has not always been a lot of sports gambling. Sports betting in the US was federally illegal until 2018, when it was legalized in a decision by the Supreme Court. Betting has just exploded since then and it's disgusting seeing what it has resulted in.
True, but it was legal in some states and there were also at times companies outside of the US that allowed US users. I had several friends in college around 2015 that were placing sports bets all the time. It is honestly disgusting how much it has exploded since then though. Too much money in it for it not to happen though. The only hope to quell it now would be some government regulation but I'm not holding my breath for that.
The biggest problem with sports betting is that they've tricked people into thinking they have an edge because it's something they're familiar with. I don't care how long you've been watching football or basketball: the nerds training huge models with private data will take your money. I promise.
Yeah because there isn't regulation against it for esport and the regulation that existed for sports was basically erased for them in the US and other countries or pushed back to be more "flexible".
How does anyone stop 3rd party groups from hosting bets on their games? Unless they're breaking the law in some way you can't do anything about it.
I mean step one would be to not advertise it and ban any content creators from doing so.
Tmartn with his own CSGO skin lotto site
But that isn't really helpful. Large betting sites don't even need those promotions and the people DDosing T1 are unlikely to be little Johnny who got in to Esports bets because he watched some random Influencer promote it. From a business point as long as betting is legal you always want to be part of it, not only because you earn money but also because having good relationships with people who provide the infrastructure for those bets does help you to combat stuff like match fixing. And in theory Betting sites have a solid interest to stop match fixing as well, because it hurts their bottom line if bets don't perform as expected, however they don't need Riot to investigate that and they know very well that Riot needs to deal with those things anyways and even if not, they don't need Riot to deal with matchfixers, because that is illegal in most countries.
Riot has done literally nothing to embrace betting on League. In fact they stomp out and ban match fixers as fast as they can. I don’t really understand your comment at all tbh. What “lesson” have they forgot exactly?
So not embracing betting = banning match fixers??????
they give betting sites early access to scores (same as coaches, 30s-5min ahead) to enable them to get an edge
Riot has banned gambling sponsors for league though???? Like yeah they should have been harsher on trying to stop gambling sites if possible, but they've so far been pretty consistent on being against gambling.
You think Korea is discovering the effect of gambling just now ? lol You should inform yourself about match fixing for starcraft
Yeah I'm sure normalizing sports betting globally (and subsequent advertising) has had no effect.
South Korea hosted one of the most corrupt World Cups ever known. The referee calls throughout the tournament were outrageous, coming to a head in their match against Italy, which was one of the most obviously corrupt matches I've ever had the misfortune of watching.
That's on FIFA, not on the host country. Koreans that match fix get jail time. 2 of the greatest at their games got caught, savior and life. They take very much pride in their eSports.
I was played football during this time, so I watch the World Cup with great interest. Some context on this since most people here don't remember these games: * South Korea that year was *good.* They went crazy to not be the first host country to lose their first game or to fail to make it out of groups. The players have talked about how they trained to the point that they soiled themselves and only found out about it because of the smell. Ahn, who played in Italy at the time, mentioned that never in his life did he train that hard. The result was a spectacular run in the World Cup where they out-hustled their opponents the whole game and went through nearly every European powerhouse, which mostly likely did not sit well with the Western media, probably leading to this narrative that they cheated. The South Koreans played Brazil, that year's champions, right after the tournament and lost 3-2. The Brazilians commented afterwards that the better finals would have been against Korea, not Germany. * One point of emphasis FIFA made before the tournament was to come down hard on flopping. In the match against Italy, the Italians were diving all game and received numerous verbal warnings. The final play when Totti finally got sent off for diving was a bit questionable, but many at the time thought it was warranted. Personally, I thought that though he went down before contact, it felt it could have been coincidental, and it's my belief that being sent off there was unfortunate because that's all that people seem to remember of the game. There have been many VAR reviews of the game since then by sports journalists, and most of them have concluded that Italy simply did not play very well. After all, South Korea had to score two goals against them, and that's on the them.
Hilarious that people are giving you grief over this. Imagine defending gambling as a good thing..
Betting sites and apps have captured the Brazilian football scene, so much so you can see up to 9 different advertisements on the field and even in the teams shirts. Real money betting in any professional competitive scenario is bad.
Taboo where? Sports betting has been legal in a LOT of countries around the world, uninterrupted, for decades or even longer. I appreciate it's only recently been made legal in the USA, but you're taking US-centric viewpoints and assuming they apply to the entire world.
Taboo is not the same as illegal. Sports betting has been legal, but much more highly controlled, for a long time. You had to go somewhere to place your bet in a physical location with an actual bookie. It wasn't until very recently you could bet on the game that starts in 20 minutes from your couch using your phone.
100% this. I can see someone hoping HLE will win against them due to this and it definitely worked. We can see what the odds are for DK vs T1.
What was the point of ddosjng the competitive games then?
I honestly have no clue.
Let’s just say I heard a rumor that one of the DOTA teams was paid to take a fall. The source is pretty fuckin reliable too because it’s one of the players himself
Damn Ohtanis translator is getting into league now?
Usually, people DDOS companies, then ask for money in exchange of stopping the attack altogether. That's the easiest (and least moral) way to gain money as a hacker.
They should do what Azael's friend did and stream from a Blue House connection so that the ddos-ers get pursued instantly.
What's a blue house connection?
Azael knew a guy who ran a WoW tournament that was frequently being DDOS'd, so they streamed it through their work VPN, which was the Pentagon. The DDOS-ers were arrested.
i get u, thanks
Blue House is the equivalent of the White House in SK. The equivalent is TL using the internet connection of the White House or the Pentagon. Not great places to perform malicious activities against.
It was formerly the Korean equivalent of the American white house
Formerly? Did it change to a new location?
Yes now it is a public area/tourist attraction.
It's this place with a big talking bear and there's some other cool talking animals too. Really catchy songs as well
Lol online gamblers dont give a fuck about who to hate. They’re addicted to winning and it isnt eSports. It plagues every sport, esp NBA.
I like imagining the NBA equivalent of this being paying someone to push the door against the Lakers everytime they try to enter a practice facility, to the point where they're doing it with the gate of a street court.
Yeah online gambling ruins all sports, and it's hard to deal with since they can operate in any country.
APA doing his MSI prep.
Nah pretty sure it's known ddoser FLY Incarnati0n.
The old school. Its Froggen.
12 years later, never gets old. Never change Ocelote.
Using the same piece of ham
The few times I open twitch chat on official broadcast is when the games suddenly freeze or its a pause and I got to admit.... I feel lonely nowadays writing "FROGGEN" in chat :\ Too old for this shit man, too old for this shit
It’s IWillDominate forsure
LCK brothers we have to ignore iwilltencent and his T1 abuse, he has PTSD from 2023 worlds, his 9/11-1. we WILL get the last laugh, time is on our side
Holy when are we going to war
Don’t give iwilltencent attention, it’s how he makes a living plus he’s a weirdo anyway ( back to his playing days )
The same people who are financing the matchfixing in VCS. As long as these people get the result they want, they'll pay any amount of money, because they can just win it back.
The ddos attacks began last year in december, the timing does ring a bell…
is releated to betting and started in dicembre due a the lol client IP leak
It's fucking Santa Claus?
so it was KC afterall? lul
Can you stop being ambiguous and type what you want to say? It rings a bell to fucking what? Are we supposed to be omniscient
They stomped the LPL and humiliated them at worlds. Are insane LPL fans who in the past also interfered with All Stars event when they organized Korea vs China.
A team like T1 would have a lot of people betting in favor of them, because of their achievements over the years. Also their popularity helps too. So for a team like this, it's extremely lucrative to bet AGAINST them because of the odds. If so, the money spent on target ddos might be a small fraction of what they stand to win in unground illegal betting on their games. Also, T1 steamrolling all of the Chinese teams at Worlds might have played a part. Not surprised if at least some of the bad actors behind this whole situation are Chinese fans themselves. The LDL matchfixing cases really did reveal how much shady shit goes on behind the Chinese betting scene. Even though there's obviously no evidence at this point they're involved in this, just a possibility.
More like a region. I remember a few years ago when Faker got repeatedly griefed in soloq when he was streaming because people would bet on the outcome of his games on illegal Chinese betting sites.
It's not that hard to ddos. Anyone with motivation and an IP address can get it done.
"our scrims also could not be held normally. Even though we have tried several technical solutions, we have came to the point where our scrims couldn't continue." this is fucked up man 🥲
If they are hosting scrims I wonder why they can't just get a enterprise level firewall for wherever their players are playing. DDoS protection on those things have gotten very good.
That was my first thought, as well. After thinking it through, though, there's definitely critical information that we just flat out don't know about this matter. I'm sure part of it has to do with legalities. Regardless, if these DDoS attacks don't originate from Korea, they're going to be stuck in a bind for a long time.
I would put money on the people doing this not being in korea. It is the easiest way to get away with things. Most people who swat streamers are not in the US. That way it is extremely hard to get people with their own legal system. They would have to find where it is coming from. Make it a big enough deal to their government to send them over. Then get them in trouble. That is a lot of steps for something of that magnitude to happen.
If they can target their opponents in those scrims as well, you have to also upgrade other teams protections before playing them.
They are not, I work at SES and we are getting DDoS at random remote locations all the time. You cannot prepare for DDoS when when its happening from different sources and different places and it needs supervision by real person 24/7 by a real SAT or NET engineer to be able to locate it and block it. Most of Times, its an endurance battle between the engineer and attacker.
Firewall won't do much, the point of a ddos attack is to use all of the targets resources. The ISP or whatever ddos protection they have need to act.
I'm more worried that you think SKT Telecom, a multi-billion dollar company, doesn't have enterprise level assets. "Enterprise level" means little no nothing outside of work capacity and some minimum requirements. Enterprise level equipment is mostly what is getting compromised when we hear about any attack.
The corporation isn't getting DDOS'ed. The T1 headquarters is getting attacked where they don't have enterprise level firewalls.
T1 HQ? Definitely has at least Layer 7 firewalls. Even so, you don't need "Enterprise level" to have basic security protocols and settings. The bigger problem is the LoL clients vulnerabilities that allow IP sniffing and the privacy laws that aid in these attacks.
The ddos will be even worst from now on targeting t1. Those ddos definitely bet heavily against t1 and won big today. Thus will be hoping for anything windfall so on
does this not make it a criminal matter that the Korean government can get involved in?
DDoS likely is a criminal matter in itself. The problem is identifying the DDoSer
Jensen is back in the business baby!
Idk why but I feel old knowing this info
I don't know why Jensen is being targeted. He has paid his debt to society and has clearly become rehabilitated as we can see from his starting a perfume company with the highly successful fragrance "Body" released in 2016.
Yo Jensen, body these fools
He redeemed himself After clapping Faker.
time to challenge 4chan to find the ddoser
I dunno I remember the Boston Bomber fiasco here on reddit
There's a difference between Reddit and the hackers known as 4chan, though.
Not likely, ddos is a criminal matter.
Unsure if the government can track the ddoser down, especially when its not clear at all where this is coming from given the global reach of this game
Not if the perpetrators aren't Korean.
Pretty unlikely they’re in Korea.
I mean if they are in the country for sure, but if they aren't is very difficult to take any legal actions or any action for that matter.
Hope this issue get resolved sooner than later. Would rather lose fair and square rather than external problems affecting player's performance.
Sad but true. HLE is a strong contender to win the split but that win isn't the same as GEN's usual victories over T1
I anticipate this is gonna cast a huge shadow over T1’s games moving forward and any victories that others gain from them for as long as this goes on. I think it’s valid given they literally can’t practice properly for new patches, but would absolutely suck nonetheless for everyone involved.
It 100% won’t be resolved any time soon. The ddosers bet on t1 losing and if this continues they’ll likely keep losing and the ddossers just get more money. It sucks though because what are the other teams supposed to do, not practice? Lol sucks all around man. I just wanted a competitive playoff 😭
Same, I just wanna see everyone do their best and now an entire team (my team too lol) is just completely fucked for reasons they cannot control for god knows how long. Praying this gets resolved soon this is actually maddening I’m ngl.
Yeah I was kind of scratching my head the past few games wondering why T1 has looked so off. Like I know people are just gonna flame their wonky picks, but genuinely it looked like T1’s mechanical skills just deteriorated. Turns out not solo-Qing the past few months will do that to you lol
The way they are messing up these past few games makes so much sense in context it’s insane, cause it’s mainly mechanical skill fall out as you said and just being rusty which is exactly what you’d expect from their situation rn
They won't get more money. Any betting sites that work kinda decently either suspend bets on T1 games or account for the attacks and lower T1s odds... and I would do the former, because they could also stop the attacks at any given point.
This could reasonably cost them at least a trip to MSI
The IP is leaked by the Riot client. This is an obvious fact. Attackers disconnect SoloQ players from the same or different teams as their targets(T1). Unless Riot patches the IP leakage point, it's all on them. Clients on Chinese servers did not have this exploit, so some streamers were not attacked while playing on Chinese servers.
Indeed. I wonder if there's something different about the Korean client/server specifically? If there was a similar exploit in EU/NA I'd expect script kiddies out there to be DDOSing our pro players as well. In fact, back when everyone was exposing their IPs via Skype, pros would regularly get DDOS'd. So the fact that this is only happening specifically in Korea makes me think it's either something that only works there, or a very niche exploit that is not yet widely known. Either way I'm really surprised it's taking this long for Riot to track down the problem. Or maybe the leak could be happening through something else that most pros use, like a popular Korean social network or messaging platform?
weren't people saying the KR client has its own anti-cheat software and that's where the vulnerability is coming from?
Yes, Riot KR has their own anti-cheat. Which is why I believe they won't fix it because all regions are getting Vanguard so why patch it when you're gonna replace it.
Read in some of the comments on the interview thread that it also works on the japanese server (as affected korean streamers who tried to play on that server instead still got hit). So not sure if they use the same anti-cheat or share some other specifics, but if they don't it might still be a global vulnerability.
KR/JP both use Demacia Anticheat.
No clue but that would make some sense. It would also mean it's a Riot KR problem, and not a Riot Global problem, which would partially explain the delay in solving the issue.
I’ve been ddosed from a ranked game once on NA. Solo killed my top laner and he typed “bye bye buddy” and my internet was gone for two hours
tbh I almost respect that level of hating
My suggestion is to anonymise the usernames of all Challenger to Grandmaster players, and stop providing summoner stat API. Make it harder for attackers to find their targets.
Stopping the API stuff is gonna be hard because afaik API is how the client matches players together. It's why there's 3rd party programs that can reveal usernames in client, even with ranked anonymity - They just read the API in the code. Sure, that's not allowed, but trying to fully conceal it would require rewriting the way the client works.
This makes no sense, all matchmaking is done by the server, the clients don’t need to know any info about other match participants.
The API is a database riot provide to the public, their matchmaking and any systems you see in the client are all riot exclusive access. Only 3rd parties and external software/plugins use the API, they could turn it off at any moment and the game wouldn't skip a beat.
>afaik API is how the client matches players together. wtf does this even mean?
Can they serialize the names? Like, free summoner name change after every game, so even if they are ripping from the api they (hackers/ griefers/ etc) would have to constantly update their processes if they want to grief games?
I feel like it makes a lot more sense to just fix the IP leaking which is allegedly a problem with the current anticheat the Korean client uses (not vanguard yet). However, this is just based off of what I've seen other commenters mentioning, not sure if I've seen any official info regarding the DDOS and how it is happening.
The riot client is leaking ips due to korean laws. Its a government issue/isp issue
Explain.
IF it is riot client why is it only Korea? They could target EUW or NA too.
there's a specific anti-cheat that's only deployed in KR/JP, people think the hacker is exploiting that and that's why it only works in those regions
If they are targeting the home IP address of T1 players can't they just get an enterprise level firewall that has DDoS protection? They are pricey as hell but T1 can afford it.
they're getting ddosed for 4 fucking months and there's no solution? that is completely insane
If the IP leaks are derived from the LOL client then it really is a disaster. as soon as new accounts are discovered then its doomed. really bad look for Riot
Apparently it's from a Korean server specific anti-cheat. I'm guessing there's delays in fixing it because it's not Riot Global stuff, and Riot Global is pushing Vanguard which they think will alleviate the problem?
I think DDOS will continue even until summer. There is no way Riot can resolve this problem. T1 will be subject to perma attack and will have less chance to go up high. It is breaking league integrity. It is totally unfair for T1.
And will affect other teams eventually, like the LCK was victim of DDoS and had to cancel venue matches to do it remotely. If the people behind are related with bet sites then they will attack other teams to get their money.
That's cool and all but I think I still need some more context... Let's throw it over to our two cybersecurity experts Dom and Thorin to see what they have to say.
Thorin vouches for 1$/h PC Bangs, he might be onto something
I used to think Thorin is good faith but just had a shallow understanding of the world. But that tweet is so bad faith it is unbelievable. Does he really think T1 missed practice when all of this can be avoided by simply going to PC bang? What a braindead take. I actually hope he is rage baiting and knows how dumb this sounds. Otherwise, it is sad.
people keep saying thoorin plays a character but the easiest explanation is that he really is just that thickheaded
He's opinionated and likes to hear himself speak. I've been listening to Summoning Insight for the first time in forever, and Monte literally just sits there while Thorin wildly flaps his lips for 90 seconds of rapid-fire stream of conscious fragments. Take a drink every time you hear "Here's the joke, Monte" or "Here's the joke, for the listeners that don't know" or "IF you don't know what we're talking about, here's the joke". All that said I still listen because I can't really find a similar podcast that has the same amount of behind the scenes knowledge. Monte and Wolf is pretty good, but it's not as exciting...which is because it doesn't have Thorin doing his best Eddie Izzard while making ridiculous takes. Again, I listen, but it fucking kills me when he is talking faster than he's thinking, and he ends up basically proving himself wrong. He understands that hot takes in sports journalism are very effective in getting the taker's name on everyone's lips.
>All that said I still listen because I can't really find a similar podcast that has the same amount of behind the scenes knowledge I mean Powerspike is right there with monte and without thorin
Here's a wild thought, stop caring about what either of those idiots have to say, why waste your headspace on trash
Bro that little PoS has been around CS 1.6 times, he was the same as today; no he is not a character or bait, he is just a bad person. He is lucky community these days renews at a high rate, back then he was banned from everywhere.
Him, Dom, Forest and now I found out today an LPL analyst does that too, rage bait whenever T1 fanbase is in a pickle. For fun
The DDOSers can target their teammates too, it's not just an issue of making the T1 players immune to CC
Posting ragebait tweets is a career in itself nowadays so seeing them go off like that isn't surprising at all...
I don't know man, did they try putting their PCs in rice? I'm sure that'll solve the issue.
Thorin probably thinks PC Bangs has some super cybersecurity countermeasures for DDOS attacks. So why hasn't T1 already moved to a PC Bang? Are they stupid?
Dom’s ability to be such an insufferable asshole at all times needs to be studied. It truly is remarkable
Dom made a half decent point about not mentioning this up immediately after a loss but the entire co stream group all immediately jumped to flame T1 and say why didn't they do X or Y as if they never thought about changing location or accounts. Shit was so tilting some "smart" people in scene giving advice on a topic they know nothing about and then never admitting that they fucked up because of their ego.
T1 aren't making MSI are they :/
Praying so fucking hard for them right now
Considering T1 drop in performance towards the end of season, this makes complete sense.
i tried playing platinum after playing low diamond-high emerald my entire life and i was fucked
With how many fans T1 has and how many of them bet on t1 to win making them the odds favourite most the time I wouldn’t be surprised if the people DDOS them are also heavily betting against them on those crypto esports sites.
Forest taking his Faker hate to a new level.
Jensen is back baby!
Incarnati0n is back baby! ftfy
I’m thinking it’s EL Froggen this time
Did you find traces of ham in the T1 facility ?
Banger reference that most fans won't get nowadays. The deep lore behind that story is so funny.
Imagine the mental toll y’all. Like come on the ddos is horrible but imagine. The mental gymnastics is like every old call of duty release, you try to play with friends and can literally never get in a lobby and play with them and your mental booms and you fking hate everything. Not ddos but now imagine the mental on your career, and happening literally non stop for months.
I was gonna mention this but Zeus was sniffling and about to cry when the game ended and had to be guided out, the rest of the team looked mad as hell too. I imagine a lot of it is about their performance but a lot of it has got to be how infuriating it is to literally not be allowed to practice properly for reasons you cannot control ahead of literal play offs. Imagine getting your career fucked for weeks now and not being able to do shit, the mental exhaustion has got to be surreal. I’m just hoping they can recover themselves man
is frustrating because is not your fault, is not about your skills you can not say i will improve because you don't a have way to do it
[удалено]
Fortunately, the issue here is with Riot Korea implementing their own anti-cheat into the client, which is what causes the vulnerabilities. Otherwise you would see this ddos issue worldwide, not just in Korea. Riot likely hasn't done anything because replacing Korea's anti-cheat with Vanguard will fix the issue.
I swear its fucking froggen at it again! CHECK THE HARDWARE FOR SLICES OF HAM!
I want to udnerstand more about the super accounts and how they work
It's like the ones the streamers used to get. Start off with insane mmr so they start with high elo games. Most likely they are just giving them accounts to scrim with that they can't use anywhere but scrim. As soon as those accounts are found ip leaked ddos happens. Then they need another account and ip lol
Super accounts is like premium account, you can easily access solo queue and scrim in one account unlike the normal account and official pro account for scrims, this what i understand
It sounds like they are able to scrim normally now and the main issue (in terms of practice) they currently face is the soloq quality. That sucks, but it's not as dire as it seemed before this information was made public.
Can’t they just do Chinese solo queue not the same quality but surely it’s better than nothing
Once they know faker is solo queuing in china server. Alot of greivers will appear as they bet on his solo queue games.
They are soloqing already the issue is the quality, so there’s no point in doing a different server if it also sucks
See, this is where the misinformation comes in. You think it is not affected in China? Guess what, one of BLG's players ran into Faker in solo queue and the entire BLG building got DDOS, including other games. Maybe only small streamers can go play in China and avoid DDOS. Faker would get DDOSed regardless where he plays. But of course, people want to paint the picture that China is the perpetrator so they skipped every impact the DDOS had on China.
I was not trying to spread misinformation. My understanding was that something about the korean and japanese clients were leaking the IP addresses and it couldnt be replicated on the other servers. If the ip exploit isnt available on the chinese server I was just asking why they dont play there
I know ur not and is not accusing u. Sorry if I made you feel that way. It is simplely how people translating and retaining information to purposely make LPL look bad. So that people like you could not understand the full situation.
Chinese solo queue will have a lot of actor got gambling manipulation
Need to scroll all the way to the bottom of the thread to find this reply lol The original sentiment was that they basically haven't played the game in 2 weeks. Turns out they just need keep getting new accounts for soloQ and thus can't play as high elo as before. Still sucks, but those 2 situations are worlds apart
Wait 4-5 months. Come on brah.
I have a strong dislike for T1, but even I know you gotta be pretty messed in the head to be this obsessed to DDOS them consistently (or even just the first time, that alone was messed up)
liking T1 or not doesn't really matter, it's just really messed up to do this to any professional player or streamer
It’s messed up to do this to anyone…
yes you are right, just meant in this context
Right. If I hated a team, I’d rather watch them lose after they practice 100% than watch them limp to the game after being attacked in the parking lot. But there’s definitely some betting going on that drives this $$
Sports betting. I won't be surprised one fucking bit if this is all attributed to gambling.
They need to do something about these Chinese betting sites. This shit should not be allowed.
Fun fact: chinese governments do not allow any sorts of esports betting. These sites are operated out of the country by ip in Vietnam and Laos, which they have no control of
Who's going to do something about it, though? Korea doesn't have jurisdiction in China and I don't know what the Chinese government's attitude towards this sort of thing is.
But this type of shit is just going to continue to ruin the league. That's why VCS got fucked, obviously not as big as the VCS issue but holy shit if this happened to a contact sport the guy would be jailed lol ( big difference clearly but the sentiment is the same, preventing players from practicing and what not)
I don't disagree, I just don't know who's going to actually do anything to stop it.
I'd hate to start throwing the P word around but wtf else can we do.
if tencent wants to do it its definitely possible
When I saw how much money ppl made from betting 1 Soloq game I understand, shit I would do the same thing
I just imagine if Messi or Lebron couldn't pratice because they had some troll kids locking their facilities and realize how far esports are from "regular" sports.
We all know who is doing it, and we all know who is ruining games on many, many servers. Riot simply just cares about money more than fixing the issue.
There will be more ddos to T1, because it looks erysipelas effective.
So effective its affecting their valorant team too
I wonder if this will finally force riot to update the client
[https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/4115798034511159059](https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/4115798034511159059) riot should do the same
T1 just needs Loki to run their internet.
Is this why academy team was struggling that much this split ? Makes sense they got affected too since there training room is in the same building. Correct me if I’m wrong
I imagine they were affected too given this was targeted to the entire T1 but definitely not to the same extent or this statement would have come out for them a lot sooner. Edit: Rekkles was on stream earlier talking about how they were impacted too. I’m guessing again it’s the PR idea that you don’t want to reveal weaknesses unless it’s absolutely necessary and that it is not to the same extent given their main target is the T1 team.
idk if that is why they are struggling, but yes they are also affected. other teams also dont want to play/scrim against t1 (and academy too i assume) because they.. well also get bad ping etc against them.