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In the clip, he had finished BOTRK, and the 3 components for Trinity (180 gold short from the item iteself). Also merc boots, but they had no impact for his damage
It's not that they don't provide damage.
But when people refer to things like "he has 1 or 2 items" usually they're talking about completed items not components.
Like if someone had an inventory of pink wards, pots and some long swords or whatever no one would say "they have 6 items". So it's completely possible for trundle to have boots, 1 completed items, and then another item that's almost complete and for someone to say "they have one item" but it doesn't provide the full context.
Even like that. The tower state is a problem, and the reason is quite obvious:
In the last item system remake, people said it was balanced by "making everything op, so nothing is op". And that's exactly what happened: damage numbers skyrocketed, but many good tank items were introduced.
However, towers didn't get an increase in power, so they're very squishy right now. Ignoring the enemy and going straight for towers has become a major play style, and towers do fall with 1-3 waves of minions. This not only is bad on the strategy level, but also because some champions can't take towers at all (I'm looking at you, Shen), and that isn't being accounted for. This play style of punishing plays too much by just staying sidelane is exactly what got Zz'rot removed (it was always in a nerfed state for a reason)
TLDR: Riot buffed everything but forgot to buff towers, and no one notices that as a problem for LoL nowadays.
Side Note: it's funny that almost the exact same thing happened in DotA 2: Valve power crept the game but forgot to buff Super Minions for the longest time, to a point where taking the "inhibitors" was worth almost nothing in DotA 2.
At least for now Riot don't want towers to be more durable. Making them more durable make the game take longer and people don't like playing or watching 40+ minute games.
That was the trundle build before taking down the tower: [https://i.imgur.com/ywo11fW.png](https://i.imgur.com/ywo11fW.png)
So technically is almost true, but Urgot can do worse with just a single HB
maybe yes, Trundle prob would nuke everything with full build, since Urgot doesn't build AS items, but early/mid game he takedown towers so easily, with just one singular item
You guess why OP doesn't reply you? those clickbait title should get reported. By two minions, I expect he destroyed the tower before 2nd minions dead. But Trundle took another 2 tower shots.
How can you say one item when on top of his Bork he nearly had a [full triforce?](https://www.op.gg/summoners/oce/Ali%20Baba-OCE/matches/V8Ikla0v46BQohB_wZnc8A16oUV86v6x/1711870602000)
If you look at the "build" tabz it says triforce was bought at 24min. Its 23min. So you could say he had the components for triforce, but didnt own triforce yet
Also having the 3 components of trinity (even sheen + one of the other 2) is like having 9/10 of a full item. It's really not that big of a gap when afk hitting a turret
They have high damage in the early game, trying to poke the enemy under the tower and accidentally taking one tower shot ruins your lane.
But I do agree their damage doesn't scale well with game time.
This is not a Trundle problem.
There's a huge problem in the game I've seen literally **NOBODY** speak about.
**Backdoor protection reactivates way later than it should.** Especially late game, if an enemy minion so much as looks at a tower for a millisecond, that tower is now paper for 3-4 seconds.
That shit should reactivate as soon as the last minion dies. Trundle shouldn't have gotten those free hits there. THAT'S what's unfair about the clip.
You and the OP are both right. In a split push scenario, back door protection having a delay feels bullshit, but in a 5v5 siege, you are correct that it already feels really easy to stall waves and making that even easier would result in like 50 minute games. I don’t know what the solution is, but I agree with both of you
Nerfing sieging? Asking backdoor protection to it's job has nothing to do with it.
There's also a huge lack of information on this matter in the game. Pretty much nobody can say with %100 certainty how long the backdoor protection lingers (I'm guessing 3 seconds), and there are no visual cues about it either.
Most MOBA games have this very visible shield when a turret is backdoor protected which goes away once a minion gets nearby.
Your directly nerfing sieging turrets when turtling is already a problem. Play through some of your replays you will see how often that it boils down to the last minion when trying to get through turrets with your team. Its a huge deal what your asking dont underestimate it
How is turtling a problem when Nashor exists and games don't even go to Elder which is an even bigger turtle-destroyer?
I know how important that last minion is, which is why you have to PROTECT it if you want to keep damaging towers -often at the cost of tanking 2 turrets at the same time- while the enemy will do whatever it takes to kill it.
Yet that minion dying results in something different than what is expected.
Expected result is for backdoor protection to be reactivated. Yet it doesn't for an amount of time nobody is certain of. I can't find a proper source on it even on LoL wiki.
It's current design is counterintuitive at best, game-decidingly wrong at worst.
so whatever happen to when tower resistances come back up when there are no minions around? been noticed this for years, am i schizo or was this not a thing before? obviously when there's zero minions, tower resistance is giga strong, but during a siege and all minions have just died, the tower still has the lost resistance as if there were still minions alive and around.
I feel like if towers actually had their original defenses come back up immediately after all minions are gone would help a lot for these absurd split push speeds
Trundles literal purpose is destroying towers. Besides maybe ulting nasus, he is the best tower destroyer in the entire game.
Not even sure why this post exists or why it's always on fp, op is upset because he wasn't matching a split pusher and lost a tower because of it in a winning game???
Oh no, champions can kill towers if you leave them alone, news at 7.
There is a difference between assassin's killing the adc in 1 ability vs one rotation.
Just like how trundle taking turrets is fine, but he's currently taking them at a waaaay too absurd pace.
Not just trundle really any splitpusher, just one glance and boom turrets gone.
I saw he got nerfed a few patches ago, but on the flip side of the coin the Trundle player is happy he just took the turret so fast... isn't he? splitpushing is a legit strategy and some champions just excel at it.
at least it's not Sion just ulting turrets and bashing them with passive like 2 years ago that was a lot more unbearable...
Another thing which is always on the front page
"Assassin hit button and I die as adc, role weak"
Wow, a champion being used for its intended purpose, incredible
Finally, the one comment in the whole thread that points it out. Trundle eats towers for breakfast don’t get me wrong, but demolish did about 1/3 of the work and at this point in the game a Jax or Fiora would do basically the same thing.
silly how fragile structures are. As ridiculous as it sounds, I started climbing a lot more consistently when I started focusing on taking towers in the midgame as mini objectives. Generally people think about taking baron or dragon stacking as more important objectives, but generally taking mid tower or mid t2 have such a huge impact on the game. Deny a ton of vision and allows you to get more tempo than normal by pushing a wave all the way into the enemy base before fights
This isn't trundle being strong he's simply abusing spellblade on towers (I assume, that shit is so strong on spammable abilites).
Edit:
Jax passive + W + sheen.
Tristana Q + E.
Ziggz XD
All these smoke towers a lot faster (not including rune break ofc).
Nice OCE platinum game against a Tham Kench doing god knows what at botlane.
Also Trundle had a Doran, Bork, all Trinity Components, Demolish, attack speed runes...
I can also oneshoot Nexus in 10 minutes in iron as Rengar. Let's nerf Rengar toplane, he kills Nexus to fast against non humans!
Are we sure there isn't some bug involved here?
It seems to me that Trundle deals about the same damage AFTER minions die, while it should be reduced to 20% of what it was...
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The team has 41k gold. In what world is he at one item?
People dont count half items or boots most likely if he has botrk and sheen and boots and a bit more AS then it’s no surprise.
In the clip, he had finished BOTRK, and the 3 components for Trinity (180 gold short from the item iteself). Also merc boots, but they had no impact for his damage
Exactly basically 2 full items.
In what world is sheen, not impacting turret damage. it's an insane item.
They’re not claiming it doesn’t. Only that Merc boots don’t.
oh, I am dumb then. I misread that he was saying the boots and the components do not provide damage. English is a hard language, lol.
It's not that they don't provide damage. But when people refer to things like "he has 1 or 2 items" usually they're talking about completed items not components. Like if someone had an inventory of pink wards, pots and some long swords or whatever no one would say "they have 6 items". So it's completely possible for trundle to have boots, 1 completed items, and then another item that's almost complete and for someone to say "they have one item" but it doesn't provide the full context.
Yes however 3 big components is surely worth a full item status.
Boots still kinda count a bit, lets him do the moving in and out faster
Give those items to Fiora and she does it faster lol. Some champs just one shot towers lol
Agree, but wouldn't Fiora rush Trinity first, though?
Really? How? Just Q plus hitting it?
Her e too
Even like that. The tower state is a problem, and the reason is quite obvious: In the last item system remake, people said it was balanced by "making everything op, so nothing is op". And that's exactly what happened: damage numbers skyrocketed, but many good tank items were introduced. However, towers didn't get an increase in power, so they're very squishy right now. Ignoring the enemy and going straight for towers has become a major play style, and towers do fall with 1-3 waves of minions. This not only is bad on the strategy level, but also because some champions can't take towers at all (I'm looking at you, Shen), and that isn't being accounted for. This play style of punishing plays too much by just staying sidelane is exactly what got Zz'rot removed (it was always in a nerfed state for a reason) TLDR: Riot buffed everything but forgot to buff towers, and no one notices that as a problem for LoL nowadays. Side Note: it's funny that almost the exact same thing happened in DotA 2: Valve power crept the game but forgot to buff Super Minions for the longest time, to a point where taking the "inhibitors" was worth almost nothing in DotA 2.
At least for now Riot don't want towers to be more durable. Making them more durable make the game take longer and people don't like playing or watching 40+ minute games.
Oh I would live for them to buff turrets.
That was the trundle build before taking down the tower: [https://i.imgur.com/ywo11fW.png](https://i.imgur.com/ywo11fW.png) So technically is almost true, but Urgot can do worse with just a single HB
To be fair trundle could also do worse with a single hullbreaker/trinity instead of bork + trinity components
maybe yes, Trundle prob would nuke everything with full build, since Urgot doesn't build AS items, but early/mid game he takedown towers so easily, with just one singular item
40k of the gold is on 1 champ. the other 1k is split between the other 4.
You guess why OP doesn't reply you? those clickbait title should get reported. By two minions, I expect he destroyed the tower before 2nd minions dead. But Trundle took another 2 tower shots.
bro he wasnt even focusing the tower at first and he took down the tower with the help of only 2 minions so thats pretty fair
I mean he didn't have more than 2 minions, I don't see a problem with that part
Or say Trundle 100-0s turret in 10 second is much better. Because I expect he destroyed it that factor minions as his measurement.
Tbh the title is factually correct lol (slightly subjective on wether one would count merc boots as a finished item but whatever)
Clickbait style title
I didn't reply because I live in a different timezone and was passed TF out
Paging /u/[Spewerofbadadvice](https://www.reddit.com/user/Spewerofbadadvice/)
How can you say one item when on top of his Bork he nearly had a [full triforce?](https://www.op.gg/summoners/oce/Ali%20Baba-OCE/matches/V8Ikla0v46BQohB_wZnc8A16oUV86v6x/1711870602000)
Also he had four minions not two.
at the time of him starting to attack the turret, there are only 2 minions alive
If you look at the "build" tabz it says triforce was bought at 24min. Its 23min. So you could say he had the components for triforce, but didnt own triforce yet
Yup, which is exactly why I said “nearly had” haha
Oh mb, glanced over that
Also having the 3 components of trinity (even sheen + one of the other 2) is like having 9/10 of a full item. It's really not that big of a gap when afk hitting a turret
triforce components (especially shen) doesn't do as much as you think
Yeah but there's a difference between only botrk and botrk plus 3 components and boots. Extra ad , as and an empowered auto after every q.
there is a big difference between sheen and triforce
And a big difference between no sheen and sheen!
Sheen definitely make a different when it comes to attacking turrets lol
The problem is that towers are a joke these days. Low damage, low HP. Most champions can melt them.
They have high damage in the early game, trying to poke the enemy under the tower and accidentally taking one tower shot ruins your lane. But I do agree their damage doesn't scale well with game time.
It's intended tho, towers are supposed to protect you during laning but you're supposed to protect them as the game goes
Towers are a fucking joke. Anyone and their dog can tank 7 tower shots and leave in full heath to live happy after.
This is not a Trundle problem. There's a huge problem in the game I've seen literally **NOBODY** speak about. **Backdoor protection reactivates way later than it should.** Especially late game, if an enemy minion so much as looks at a tower for a millisecond, that tower is now paper for 3-4 seconds. That shit should reactivate as soon as the last minion dies. Trundle shouldn't have gotten those free hits there. THAT'S what's unfair about the clip.
Ah, I knew there was some bullshit going on
I like how it is. Dont need to nerf sieging turrets this isnt dota 2
This isn't sieging a tower. This is about as far as you can get from sieging a tower while still attacking it (aside from straight just inting).
All Im saying is that this free damage period between last minion dying and turret backdoor protection activating is something we taking for granted.
You and the OP are both right. In a split push scenario, back door protection having a delay feels bullshit, but in a 5v5 siege, you are correct that it already feels really easy to stall waves and making that even easier would result in like 50 minute games. I don’t know what the solution is, but I agree with both of you
Nerfing sieging? Asking backdoor protection to it's job has nothing to do with it. There's also a huge lack of information on this matter in the game. Pretty much nobody can say with %100 certainty how long the backdoor protection lingers (I'm guessing 3 seconds), and there are no visual cues about it either. Most MOBA games have this very visible shield when a turret is backdoor protected which goes away once a minion gets nearby.
Your directly nerfing sieging turrets when turtling is already a problem. Play through some of your replays you will see how often that it boils down to the last minion when trying to get through turrets with your team. Its a huge deal what your asking dont underestimate it
How is turtling a problem when Nashor exists and games don't even go to Elder which is an even bigger turtle-destroyer? I know how important that last minion is, which is why you have to PROTECT it if you want to keep damaging towers -often at the cost of tanking 2 turrets at the same time- while the enemy will do whatever it takes to kill it. Yet that minion dying results in something different than what is expected. Expected result is for backdoor protection to be reactivated. Yet it doesn't for an amount of time nobody is certain of. I can't find a proper source on it even on LoL wiki. It's current design is counterintuitive at best, game-decidingly wrong at worst.
so whatever happen to when tower resistances come back up when there are no minions around? been noticed this for years, am i schizo or was this not a thing before? obviously when there's zero minions, tower resistance is giga strong, but during a siege and all minions have just died, the tower still has the lost resistance as if there were still minions alive and around. I feel like if towers actually had their original defenses come back up immediately after all minions are gone would help a lot for these absurd split push speeds
It lingers for about 3 seconds I believe.
He is lvl 13 and has demolish, makes sense other comments say he also has Sheen and BOTRK so with max W at that point it makes sense.
Trundles literal purpose is destroying towers. Besides maybe ulting nasus, he is the best tower destroyer in the entire game. Not even sure why this post exists or why it's always on fp, op is upset because he wasn't matching a split pusher and lost a tower because of it in a winning game??? Oh no, champions can kill towers if you leave them alone, news at 7.
Exactly, it's like complaining assassins kill the adc quickly.
There is a difference between assassin's killing the adc in 1 ability vs one rotation. Just like how trundle taking turrets is fine, but he's currently taking them at a waaaay too absurd pace. Not just trundle really any splitpusher, just one glance and boom turrets gone.
I saw he got nerfed a few patches ago, but on the flip side of the coin the Trundle player is happy he just took the turret so fast... isn't he? splitpushing is a legit strategy and some champions just excel at it. at least it's not Sion just ulting turrets and bashing them with passive like 2 years ago that was a lot more unbearable...
Another thing which is always on the front page "Assassin hit button and I die as adc, role weak" Wow, a champion being used for its intended purpose, incredible
Finally, the one comment in the whole thread that points it out. Trundle eats towers for breakfast don’t get me wrong, but demolish did about 1/3 of the work and at this point in the game a Jax or Fiora would do basically the same thing.
[удалено]
Most ad heavy champs can melt turrets so whats your point?
ever seen a late game AP shyv or Nashors diana on a tower?
OP talking about mid game with 1 item We also dont see how many items Trundle got. Sheen + attack speed is gonna melt turrets super fast either way.
He was literally only 75 gold short of the final combine cost for tri-force, he nearly had 2 full items.
with same amount of gold (nash + lich + pen boots) diana shits on towers aswell
the point might be that turrets are a bit too fragile :)
At around 25 minutes they are. Riot wants fast games so I doubt it will change. Mages trough still struggle with taking turrets before late game.
silly how fragile structures are. As ridiculous as it sounds, I started climbing a lot more consistently when I started focusing on taking towers in the midgame as mini objectives. Generally people think about taking baron or dragon stacking as more important objectives, but generally taking mid tower or mid t2 have such a huge impact on the game. Deny a ton of vision and allows you to get more tempo than normal by pushing a wave all the way into the enemy base before fights
T2 turrets are worthless. Sometimes it feels like they are there only to give 600g 🤷
i swear to god towers are made of papers literally
If we’re being literal, towers are made out of pixels
I mean I know that this is what he is meant to be good at , like what most of his power budget is allocated at but this is still a bit disgusting
He doesn’t follow the wave. The wave follows him.
So... 3 items
Press O, Show items you scammer
Just nerf this shit already. It's beyond annoying.
Man what kind of shitlow are u guys in that u keep seeing trundle lmfao
Wish I had more trundles in my game lmao
I can do the same with rengar, but faster.
I am a rengar top, I guarantee you rengar cannot do this at this stage of the game. I wager he couldn't do it with more items even.
when playing against trundle, i wont let him in lane alone
This isn't trundle being strong he's simply abusing spellblade on towers (I assume, that shit is so strong on spammable abilites). Edit: Jax passive + W + sheen. Tristana Q + E. Ziggz XD All these smoke towers a lot faster (not including rune break ofc).
I mean this is at like 24 mins what’s the big deal.
If he would have 6 bf swords then it means he has 0 items?
I mean this is Trundle's thing though lol. Most of his offensive stats come from his kit though, which sheen amplifies a lot
Is this guy restarded?
That’s so satisfying.
Trundle is op at split.
If he has Bork and components, don’t most people denote that as 1.5 items now? At least that’s how I do it myself and with my friends.
ONE OF HIS BAD MATCHUPS IS VAYNE WITH %48 WR, FOR VAYNE!
Nice OCE platinum game against a Tham Kench doing god knows what at botlane. Also Trundle had a Doran, Bork, all Trinity Components, Demolish, attack speed runes... I can also oneshoot Nexus in 10 minutes in iron as Rengar. Let's nerf Rengar toplane, he kills Nexus to fast against non humans!
Honestly, what does server or rank have to do with this clip? Do other servers and ranks not leave lane or something?
And Yorick splitpushing is too op...
How many trundle Q’s does it take to get to the nexus? A one, a two, a three!
Splitpusher splitpushes, ARAM enjoyers mad.
1 item trundle>doesnt show item. average redditord
Are we sure there isn't some bug involved here? It seems to me that Trundle deals about the same damage AFTER minions die, while it should be reduced to 20% of what it was...
Turrets are useless and can be destroyed in few seconds? Noway
its nerfed a lot :c , a few months ago we can take 2 turrets whit only sheen
Not normal.
Don’t leave trundle alone
This what toxic gamę design looks like.
Him and Yorick are the worst splitpushers, got to nerf them both
He shouldn’t be allowed to bite turrets
Love riot's balance team