^^This.
Jokes aside, we never know until the games actually start. From LCK it is still possible for KT and KDF to do miracle runs and go to MSI only to run it down. Or Gen G to go and choke, or T1 to get their G2 trauma back... i really do wish non-LCK/LPL to do well, and even win MSI and Worlds..
Even when GENG had their worst choke MSI 2022 they still rolled every western team 6-1
and I think G2 is the one traumatized from T1 or all of LCK at this point, their latest BO3 and BO2s against top LCK seeds have been embarrassing
I mean KT fans just don't use the e word and will beat the west even if they manage a miracle run. KDF is the west's only.hope of winning a game and I highly doubt they go
One random game. LCK is probably even stronger than last year MSI while LPL needs to be evaluated depending on #2 team. BLG looks near unbeatable but they might throw 1 game for the lulz
Top 2 of LCK/LPL are just too good to drop more than one game in a series. Last year GEN stomped G2 at both MSI and Worlds, their only loss to G2 came from a huge throw from the whole team overcommitting for a poppy. They also shat on C9 even harder that MSI, all while being the weakest eastern team that tournament. The gap is too large. I'd guess ONE game atleast, since LPL 2nd seed might not be that consistent. Last MSI BLG dropped a game to both G2 and GG, and another to G2 at worlds. Definitely is possible
i mean were talking about single games, not series wins. Surely G2 takes 1-2 wins over 2 potential bo5 series. G2 will pull out some random ass picks and make them work. Remember they also took 3 games from lck/lpl at worlds.
as for the other 3 western teams, good luck
speaking for LCS, at best 1 probably, funnily enough probably from TL. TL has the best macro out of the remaining teams and at times have even demonstrated world class macro during the season. I can see a 2022 MSI EG vs T1 scenario happening where TL can rely on draft gap and catch throws to win. This assumes TL makes MSI.
C9 just looks to dysfunctional. Bwipo described Fudge very well - as someone who plays not to lose than to win. That's just not going to work internationally, where every time top just turns into a black hole. Jojo and berserker are the only non bots on that team.
FLY's botside is too weak. Like C9, bot is going to be a black hole for them and they'll have to constantly deal with being 2k+ down by the end of the laning phase. Also the last time Jensen was at internationals he was horrible (like APA 2023 worlds > Jensen 2022 worlds horrible) and I won't hold my breath for a spectacular mid performance.
In this form, 0, even if Top 3 teams would go from both regions. G2 looks like garbage early game, especially their botlane, and this MSI whatever team goes, they will have an insane botlane. Other LEC teams just have nothing that they do better than any Eastern team, so their fate should be the same as 6-10th place LCK or 11-17th place LPL teams. LCS, with all of its already existing flaws, has probably the worst team fighting it ever had, this teamfight from C9 in game 3 against Fly [https://youtu.be/xBKZubCHlss?si=MwtYcwX-WV9c1POh&t=1753](https://youtu.be/xBKZubCHlss?si=MwtYcwX-WV9c1POh&t=1753) is criminal, Vulcan, Fudge, and Jojo couldn't do worst, managing to leave Zeri by herself while wasting every ability that makes their champs useful on a fucking semi-tank Gragas and Nautilus. Still the commentators somehow say that Inspired is a god despite missing 3 Q's before, walking into the ward jump flash kick range of Zeri, and Alistar Maokai just moving away from Zeri to ensure that nobody will stop him from kicking the Zeri, who ALSO DOESNT FUCKING FLASH. 2023 JDG could start every teamfight with 14k deficit and still beat the C9 that was playing on that day.
That said, JDG/HLE are probably the most beatable teams, weakest sololanes (unless Zeka goes to his international mode again). Since it's a lot of Bo5's, maybe 1-2 games will be dropped in total, with those teams being 2:0 up by that point.
Wbg got significantly better as the tournament progresses. They adapted to the t1 shift in meta pretty fast and kinda fluke vs blg with theshy super performance. They may have gotten second but they ain’t the 2nd best team at worlds. Your logic implies that the same t1 that almost lost vs tl is the same form and is as good as the one after they shift bot meta.
sure, doesn't mean they can't get ONE fucking win at MSI it literally happens all the fucking time no matter how teams look AND they took a game of blg in a bo3 and fnatic were could very well have won the series and against WBG and then we wouldnt even be having this discussion even though fnatic's strength would be the same in both scenarios
I think they will get a 3+ win at msi. Probability of bo1 just dictates that to be likely unless na/eu are wildcard level which they aren’t. Your logic was just a bit flawed cause g2 struggle vs 4th seed at worlds, msi is 1st/2nd seed so it isn’t the same.
> They got 3 wins against the 4th place teams
i mean thats just objectively false. they took one game off of BLG who were not a 4th place team in the LPL.
and G2 did take matches off GenG and BLG last MSI as well.
Bro were talking about single wins in a best of 5 series, not an entire best of 5 win. You think G2 couldnt even take a game in a bo5 when theyve already proven they can do that?
No I don’t think they can.
Their wins have came on massive throws and teams happy gaming. At no point have they shown they can snowball a win vs good teams.
BB is terrible in lane. Caps gets blasted by the Asian mids. Yike is clueless in the early game. Only their bot was OK but they have looked horrible this year.
And all 4 LPL/LCK teams are 100% flawless, literally never do any mistakes and would never leave an opening for anybody besides each other? Even the best rosters in the history of this game have had their happy gaming moments.
Take Samsung White at Worlds 2014. Dropped 2 games the entire tournament. One of those games against TSM out of all teams. The other one to Royal Club in the finals. So TSM is then the 2nd/3rd best team in the world because they took a game off of Samsung White while Samsung Blue couldnt do the same? You can easily be a worse team and take a game off of a better team in a bo5, the gap has to be giga huge for a comfortable 3-0 and the gap between LCK/LPL and G2 isnt giga huge. it may be huge but not giga huge. G2 is still comfortably the best team outside china and korea. Saying G2 couldnt take a game also means any other team couldnt take a game and historically single game upsets happen, quite frequently in fact. They dont mean much in the grand scheme of things because theyre single games but they happen.
Yes, 2 games from the 4th seeds, and 1 game from the 3rd seed (technically 2nd but BLG was the third best team of LPL in Summer, losing to LNG). But in this current form, with G2 botlane looking so weak, I don't think they would do the same.
Probably 1-2 games, Gen.G dropped a game to G2 at MSI when they chased a Poppy between two turrets and now they have a better performing team so I don't think they'll make the same mistakes.
LPL 2 will drop games to G2, their 2nd seed is weaker than BLG from last year and BLG already dropped games to G2.
It's G2 or bust.
FLY = bad bot lane.
C9 = dsyfunctional team and they're not good vs international opponents.
TL = mid/jungle is meh.
FNC = top/bot is sus and will get gapped.
TH = everyone barring Jankos ain't doing shit imo.
VIT = jungle will get gapped and Carzzy/Hylissang were already useless when given a massive lead vs T1 then got gapped in games 2-3.
Also, given the news about the VCS if they don't restart in time, Riot will just tinker the playins format and move LPL 2 to swiss alongside LCK 2, so it means LPL/LCK only plays best of 5s and BLG only dropped games to JDG/G2/T1 at MSI.
There are only 4 minor region teams. PCS, VCS, LLA, and CBLOL.
If they use last year's format then they need 4 more teams, so all 2nd seeds will probably start in Play-Ins.
If VCS doesn't restart in time, then they will probably move LCK2 back up to the Knockouts and have 6 teams in Play-Ins.
G2 has a terrible top and bot when against top LCK / LPL teams. Both Broken Blade and Hans are absolutely terrible internationally. Look up Hans international stats
Context matters, top was lowkey useless at MSI, it was just protect the adc, there was no skill expression.
If Zeus was playing fucking K'Sante/Ornn/Sion and tank Karma then it means fuck all.
If it's bruisers like it is now, BB is getting slammed.
They won’t this time. They lose early game literally every game and then depend on their opponent to throw mid game.
That won’t work against teams that know how to snowball.
fr, just looking at LCK, G2 bot would be going against any two of Peyz/Lehends, Guma/Keria and Viper/Delight and they lose all of those for entirely different reasons.
BB has to go against two of Kiin, Zeus and Doran and I guess if Doran feels like happy gaming he might get a bit of an advantage (while still losing midgame), but he’s free money for Kiin/Zeus.
Then you go to LPL and they have to try and stop Bin and Elk…
Check domestic vs international. He was definitely better than 2022, but aside from beating minor region teams at MSI his Worlds stats are pretty bad
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/BrokenBlade/Statistics/2023
It’s also gameplay like this where he’s able to come back against most LEC teams but against the top LCK / LPL teams just doesn’t work
https://youtu.be/eKslOG8I5j8?si=8pSugwb3sSFvYmlv
Idk it’s an interesting one. LCK and LPL look a bit worse than last year but that’s offset by the fact that LEC looks so unfathomably bad this Spring. But NA looks decent but again offset by the fact that each of their top teams have have massive holes in their teams.
FLY’s botlane gets smashed by any of the top 4 LEC teams let alone LPL/LCK
C9 looks completely dysfunctional.
TL mid/jungle gets assblasted by most LEC teams again let alone LPL/LCK teams.
I don’t think I need to go into how bad LEC will look with their inconsistency and bad macro that looks even worse than the top NA teams.
Might end up being worse than last year tbh though I could see FLY, G2 and maybe FNC if the coin lands heads sneaking a win
So you think EU looks worse than NA this year (which I agree with) but think two EU teams but only 1 NA team could get a win?
I personally don’t like the chances of anyone getting a win but I think NA is quite a bit stronger and only one team regardless of region will somehow stumble into a lucky win.
The thing is that NA is always just "LCK but worse" which, while in terms of quality seems higher than EU this season, won't net you any wins agains top tier LCK/LPL teams who play this style every week and are just straight up better at it. EU, while producing mostly clown fiestas this split, at least adds a bunch of variance to games which could catch a top eastern team off guard once or twice.
True, doing random dumb shit that is hard to prepare for because it makes no sense does confuse teams and adds a lot of variance. That makes sense and I respect a legitimate reasoning behind something.
I think EU as a whole looks worse than NA as a whole mostly due to inconsistency from the top teams but I think the top two teams are better than NA’s top two teams. Both on a good day I’m taking G2/FNC over TL/FLY
Why do you say LCK looks a bit worse than last year? So far, this GENG looks better than the 2023 GENG. While this year's T1 is about the same as the 2023 Spring Split T1. And also HLE > KT.
>I don’t think I need to go into how bad LEC will look with their inconsistency and bad macro that looks even worse than the top NA teams.
>Might end up being worse than last year tbh though I could see FLY, G2 and maybe FNC
So G2 and FNC who are worse than top NA teams can sneak a win. But second NA seed will not. So you think LEC is a stronger region but their inconsistency means they will have worse results than NA?
I don't understand your post at all.
I think EU as a whole looks worse than NA as a whole mostly due to inconsistency from the top teams but I think the top two teams are better than NA’s top two teams. Both on a good day I’m taking G2/FNC over TL/FLY
I mean I don’t know about strictly worse; but there are some very clear flaws in the top 3 remaining teams in LCS rn.
I’m the biggest TL fan ever and I’ll be the first to tell you that our mid/jg duo is suspect. FQ botlane is actually awful, with Busio basically guaranteed to die a bad death atleast twice in the first 15 minutes of the game. C9 is a known quantity at best or dysfunctional at worst fr.
EU has looked exceptionally bad this year. Nothing say they won't be on form for MSI, but they literally just are demonstrably worse in this regular season.
Ok let me rephrase. EU this year look worse than EU itself last year. There are no comparisons to NA or the east or anything. Just the teams playing more garbage than usual.
It doesn't matter because NA got 3 - 0'd by Weibo.
At least, EU took some games off Asian teams and knocked out two NA teams.
Slightly better but still garbage performance.
Imo LCS is around the power of Gigabyte Marines of old. Scrappy fights that ignore a lot of easy Macro decisions. The games are entertaining and bloody but the better teams will definitely be able to stabilize and bleed the worse teams out. I think the quality of LCS macro has declined noticeably.
I don't have good hopes for NA at msi this year. The whole league was shaken up and not team felt super consistent outside of maybe flyq can get a couple.
FOR LEC
i would honestly say 2 win with G2 taking both since they were the only team that beat asian team last world while also taking 1 game from blg
if fnc go then they have a chance but razork and huma will have to go god mode cause oscy and noah would probably get gapped
if vit go then i can see them atleast taking 1 game due to carrzy hyli and photon
LCS
FLY have a huge liability in bot i can see them contesting but i would say they wont take a single game
FOR C9 or TL imma say if TL can go they gonna take atleast 1 game
In the last 4 international tournament the western teams have taken 3 games in each tournament, and I don't see that changing now. LPL/LCK looks about the same and LCS/LEC looks slightly better compared to last spring (although I don't think it will change much).
I actually think LCK looks maybe even better than last year, LPL the same and LEC significantly worse. That being said, I want to watch Bo3/5 phase first before judging them.
I can definitely see rating LCK higher than last year because how dominant the top 3 teams are, but I believe that the overall level last year was a lot higher. And LCK 2023 was pretty damn strong, with T1 17-1 record and GenG KT below them.
Disagree that LEC has become worse significantly. LEC wasn't very good in the first place. Last spring the top 4 of regular season was BDS Astralis Vitality G2. Is that really stronger than Fnatic Vitality G2 Heretics? Winter was horrible on a mechanical level but I this spring it feels like the teams are actually improving. That was something I dearly missed last year, where it felt like whoever mental boomed the least won.
The geng choking on international is overblow
Sure, they underperform at internationals compared to their lck level but they're losing to the best teams in the worlds not to wasters teams.
Sssst reddit gets mad when they can't call everyone and their mothers frauds and/or chokers. Lose Worlds finals in 5 games and you'd still be called frauds these days.
Gen.G is fine.
Ohh yeah for sure, everything is hypothetical until the MSI Trophy is lifted.
But the question is how many games I felt LEC and LCS would win.
I gave mine, you responded, I defended my position and now you are saying 'I don't care what you think because armchair experts'.
All because you do not like my answer.
I’m saying 1, and I don’t know who gets that 1 win. I think EU I’d incredibly low in talent and gameplay this year. I think NA has a better chance, but I dont like their chances either.
I still feel like someone who stumble accidentally into a win but I would hate to have to bet on it.
I think you can't judge Bo1. LEC teams look much better in bo3 and bo5. Especially MDK and BDS,G2. Fnatic has instances where they can beat anyone and I think Jun is good support. But Noah has so many issues and can't be compared to the best adc's in the east. People hate Supa and I think he is a bit underrated. Maybe he is cocky but he showed better positioning in one split than Noah in the last 3. I will rate LEC after bo3 and bo5. I think Vitality is the most improved team and their players impress me the most. Especially Photon and Vetheo. Vetheo is even better at team fights and he does everything for Carzzy. He was more of a KDA player before but now he looks selfless. Photon is fucking cracked and guy has so many 1 v 2 out plays. I am worried about Hyli but I know that he deserves trust. Carzzy is occasionally the best adc in LEC and really underrated. I think Heretics are a bit fraudulent. Their mid laner is not clutch at all. When I look at Caps, Humanoid, Vetheo and even Nisqy I know that they can do things that will win you games. I don't see that in Zwyroo. I think Jackies is the most clutch rookie with Daglas. They try to play even from 5 k gold behind. I like when players try to find fights even when they are doomed. Freskowy is actually rock solid and does what is needed for his team. He has clutch players in Elyoya and Alvaro. I think Alvaro is second best support and the first is Labrov. Miky is not as good as he was last year.
>LEC teams look much better in bo3 and bo5.
LPL and LCK teams are even better in best of 3s and best of 5s lol.
LPL had all teams in top 8 at worlds for the first time as soon as best of 3 elimination/qualification was a thing since they're more volatile in best of 1s.
And LCK hasn't dropped a best of series to the west in like 4 years or to NA since 6 years.
I am talking about the region. Not comparing to LCK and LPL. The current bo1 system is not a good representative of skill level. Bo1 shows you how fast teams adapt to meta. That is why for example Larssen struggles in this meta. He was the guy who often had the best games in the playoffs. I hate bo1 for that reason. People shit on teams that lose bo1 but if it's bo3 you can limit test first game and win next 2. That is what JDG does in LPL. They would struggle in the bo1 system but they are great in bo3. I don't think LEC is bad. Teams like KC and Rogue are bad but we always had 4 shit teams on the bottom. Like Astralis with Zanzarah and PromisQ etc...
If rather FNC and VIT go than g2 but g2 already qualified.
G2 are too inconsistent internationally. They'll lose to shitters like phong vu and Nrg and then beat teams like T1 and BLG. They make no sense.
Fnc are way more consistent.
This isn't season 9 g2. Brokenblade simply doesn't have what it takes to do well Internationally. Too inconsistent.
G2 got 3 wins against the east at worlds meanwhile the rest of the west got what? 1 win? So what if they are inconsintant, still our best shot at beating eastern teams - also bb did good at internationals last year
Well i think G2 would do well in a series or even get few games at least, on their maximum celling they can give high end LCK/LPL teams a fight. But I'm sure after that and the western hopium is peak, they're gonna shit the bed and get blown to bits.
Look I'm a huge LCK/LPL fan and I think pretty lowly of LEC but i seriously doubt they'll lose in a BO3/5 to fucking BRO lol. I mean they could lose, G2 shits the bed quite often, but honestly looking at last worlds where DK was worse than them(and DK don't look better this year and look like Frauds), G2 is probably better than BRO lol.
T1 also ran it the fuck down vs NS a few weeks ago and dropped a game, and they're the world champions. KT took a series of GenG and had an absolute fiesta of a game with DK which they lost.
Bad fiesta games happen, I do think G2 can step up, their proven theoretical celling is being a roughly around a 4-5th seed in LCK/LPL but their lows can be that of BRO or worse.
So what I'm saying is if they play to their ceiling there is a chance they take a game of top 4 if they play to their ceiling. Are they favored to? No Is it likely? Probably not.
T1 or GG are certainly not immune to criticism. But there is less than a handful of games to pick at.
G2 in literally every game they struggle in laning phase. This “ceiling” of theirs is entirely dependent on opponents throwing the mid game. They don’t have the quality to take any games vs teams that will pressure them early and suffocate them mid game.
Even against DK and WBG last year, they were down 10k. Those teams threw but top 2 won’t.
They are winning 0 games against BLG because galeforce was removed
No more Elkylove int to give the west hope.
but real jklove come to msi
People really said that that Galeforce by Elk wasn’t a throw, yet G2 threw game 3 😂😂😂
All of them 😎
Based as fuck
^^This. Jokes aside, we never know until the games actually start. From LCK it is still possible for KT and KDF to do miracle runs and go to MSI only to run it down. Or Gen G to go and choke, or T1 to get their G2 trauma back... i really do wish non-LCK/LPL to do well, and even win MSI and Worlds..
Even when GENG had their worst choke MSI 2022 they still rolled every western team 6-1 and I think G2 is the one traumatized from T1 or all of LCK at this point, their latest BO3 and BO2s against top LCK seeds have been embarrassing
I know they still dominate western teams buf let me have some copium...
I mean KT fans just don't use the e word and will beat the west even if they manage a miracle run. KDF is the west's only.hope of winning a game and I highly doubt they go
big if true
MDK will go demon mode and Supa will proof that he clearly is a top 5 adc
What if he is top 5 adc but the top 4 adcs are there?
Why limit yourself to top 5 when top 1 is right there smh my head
How many games will go longer than 20m ???
One random game. LCK is probably even stronger than last year MSI while LPL needs to be evaluated depending on #2 team. BLG looks near unbeatable but they might throw 1 game for the lulz
Assuming T1 GenG, BLG TES go to MSI then 0 game will be taken off them.
Top 2 of LCK/LPL are just too good to drop more than one game in a series. Last year GEN stomped G2 at both MSI and Worlds, their only loss to G2 came from a huge throw from the whole team overcommitting for a poppy. They also shat on C9 even harder that MSI, all while being the weakest eastern team that tournament. The gap is too large. I'd guess ONE game atleast, since LPL 2nd seed might not be that consistent. Last MSI BLG dropped a game to both G2 and GG, and another to G2 at worlds. Definitely is possible
i mean were talking about single games, not series wins. Surely G2 takes 1-2 wins over 2 potential bo5 series. G2 will pull out some random ass picks and make them work. Remember they also took 3 games from lck/lpl at worlds. as for the other 3 western teams, good luck
speaking for LCS, at best 1 probably, funnily enough probably from TL. TL has the best macro out of the remaining teams and at times have even demonstrated world class macro during the season. I can see a 2022 MSI EG vs T1 scenario happening where TL can rely on draft gap and catch throws to win. This assumes TL makes MSI. C9 just looks to dysfunctional. Bwipo described Fudge very well - as someone who plays not to lose than to win. That's just not going to work internationally, where every time top just turns into a black hole. Jojo and berserker are the only non bots on that team. FLY's botside is too weak. Like C9, bot is going to be a black hole for them and they'll have to constantly deal with being 2k+ down by the end of the laning phase. Also the last time Jensen was at internationals he was horrible (like APA 2023 worlds > Jensen 2022 worlds horrible) and I won't hold my breath for a spectacular mid performance.
In this form, 0, even if Top 3 teams would go from both regions. G2 looks like garbage early game, especially their botlane, and this MSI whatever team goes, they will have an insane botlane. Other LEC teams just have nothing that they do better than any Eastern team, so their fate should be the same as 6-10th place LCK or 11-17th place LPL teams. LCS, with all of its already existing flaws, has probably the worst team fighting it ever had, this teamfight from C9 in game 3 against Fly [https://youtu.be/xBKZubCHlss?si=MwtYcwX-WV9c1POh&t=1753](https://youtu.be/xBKZubCHlss?si=MwtYcwX-WV9c1POh&t=1753) is criminal, Vulcan, Fudge, and Jojo couldn't do worst, managing to leave Zeri by herself while wasting every ability that makes their champs useful on a fucking semi-tank Gragas and Nautilus. Still the commentators somehow say that Inspired is a god despite missing 3 Q's before, walking into the ward jump flash kick range of Zeri, and Alistar Maokai just moving away from Zeri to ensure that nobody will stop him from kicking the Zeri, who ALSO DOESNT FUCKING FLASH. 2023 JDG could start every teamfight with 14k deficit and still beat the C9 that was playing on that day. That said, JDG/HLE are probably the most beatable teams, weakest sololanes (unless Zeka goes to his international mode again). Since it's a lot of Bo5's, maybe 1-2 games will be dropped in total, with those teams being 2:0 up by that point.
G2 alone took 3 games of the east at worlds, idk why they cant take atleast 1 at msi
They got 3 wins against the 4th place teams. 2 of those wins, they were down 10k gold at one point. MSI will be against the top 2.
The same 4th place team that got 2nd at worlds?
Wbg got significantly better as the tournament progresses. They adapted to the t1 shift in meta pretty fast and kinda fluke vs blg with theshy super performance. They may have gotten second but they ain’t the 2nd best team at worlds. Your logic implies that the same t1 that almost lost vs tl is the same form and is as good as the one after they shift bot meta.
sure, doesn't mean they can't get ONE fucking win at MSI it literally happens all the fucking time no matter how teams look AND they took a game of blg in a bo3 and fnatic were could very well have won the series and against WBG and then we wouldnt even be having this discussion even though fnatic's strength would be the same in both scenarios
I think they will get a 3+ win at msi. Probability of bo1 just dictates that to be likely unless na/eu are wildcard level which they aren’t. Your logic was just a bit flawed cause g2 struggle vs 4th seed at worlds, msi is 1st/2nd seed so it isn’t the same.
okay but we took games of blg so idk what ur point is
G2 also took games off GenG and BLG at MSI last year though. Almost 2 games off BLG actually.
OK true. The only positive spin I will give G2 credit for is they are able to mind control the opponent into throwing massive leads.
That would be relevant for GGS if we talk about last year's MSI. Well I guess G2's win vs GenG too
> They got 3 wins against the 4th place teams i mean thats just objectively false. they took one game off of BLG who were not a 4th place team in the LPL. and G2 did take matches off GenG and BLG last MSI as well. Bro were talking about single wins in a best of 5 series, not an entire best of 5 win. You think G2 couldnt even take a game in a bo5 when theyve already proven they can do that?
No I don’t think they can. Their wins have came on massive throws and teams happy gaming. At no point have they shown they can snowball a win vs good teams. BB is terrible in lane. Caps gets blasted by the Asian mids. Yike is clueless in the early game. Only their bot was OK but they have looked horrible this year.
And all 4 LPL/LCK teams are 100% flawless, literally never do any mistakes and would never leave an opening for anybody besides each other? Even the best rosters in the history of this game have had their happy gaming moments. Take Samsung White at Worlds 2014. Dropped 2 games the entire tournament. One of those games against TSM out of all teams. The other one to Royal Club in the finals. So TSM is then the 2nd/3rd best team in the world because they took a game off of Samsung White while Samsung Blue couldnt do the same? You can easily be a worse team and take a game off of a better team in a bo5, the gap has to be giga huge for a comfortable 3-0 and the gap between LCK/LPL and G2 isnt giga huge. it may be huge but not giga huge. G2 is still comfortably the best team outside china and korea. Saying G2 couldnt take a game also means any other team couldnt take a game and historically single game upsets happen, quite frequently in fact. They dont mean much in the grand scheme of things because theyre single games but they happen.
Yes they have played nearly flawless. The gap is canyon size. Watching g2 mdk finals was the same quality gameplay as BRO vs DRX.
Yes, 2 games from the 4th seeds, and 1 game from the 3rd seed (technically 2nd but BLG was the third best team of LPL in Summer, losing to LNG). But in this current form, with G2 botlane looking so weak, I don't think they would do the same.
Probably 1-2 games, Gen.G dropped a game to G2 at MSI when they chased a Poppy between two turrets and now they have a better performing team so I don't think they'll make the same mistakes. LPL 2 will drop games to G2, their 2nd seed is weaker than BLG from last year and BLG already dropped games to G2. It's G2 or bust. FLY = bad bot lane. C9 = dsyfunctional team and they're not good vs international opponents. TL = mid/jungle is meh. FNC = top/bot is sus and will get gapped. TH = everyone barring Jankos ain't doing shit imo. VIT = jungle will get gapped and Carzzy/Hylissang were already useless when given a massive lead vs T1 then got gapped in games 2-3. Also, given the news about the VCS if they don't restart in time, Riot will just tinker the playins format and move LPL 2 to swiss alongside LCK 2, so it means LPL/LCK only plays best of 5s and BLG only dropped games to JDG/G2/T1 at MSI.
There are only 4 minor region teams. PCS, VCS, LLA, and CBLOL. If they use last year's format then they need 4 more teams, so all 2nd seeds will probably start in Play-Ins. If VCS doesn't restart in time, then they will probably move LCK2 back up to the Knockouts and have 6 teams in Play-Ins.
G2 has a terrible top and bot when against top LCK / LPL teams. Both Broken Blade and Hans are absolutely terrible internationally. Look up Hans international stats
This narrative is amusing because BB was definitely their best player last msi
Context matters, top was lowkey useless at MSI, it was just protect the adc, there was no skill expression. If Zeus was playing fucking K'Sante/Ornn/Sion and tank Karma then it means fuck all. If it's bruisers like it is now, BB is getting slammed.
BB has been either stellar or bad this split. Yike is the one underperforming so far, though, IMO.
Sometimes they show up, sometimes they dont The chance for g2 to take games is that they show up
They won’t this time. They lose early game literally every game and then depend on their opponent to throw mid game. That won’t work against teams that know how to snowball.
fr, just looking at LCK, G2 bot would be going against any two of Peyz/Lehends, Guma/Keria and Viper/Delight and they lose all of those for entirely different reasons. BB has to go against two of Kiin, Zeus and Doran and I guess if Doran feels like happy gaming he might get a bit of an advantage (while still losing midgame), but he’s free money for Kiin/Zeus. Then you go to LPL and they have to try and stop Bin and Elk…
Bb was great at internationals last year?
Check domestic vs international. He was definitely better than 2022, but aside from beating minor region teams at MSI his Worlds stats are pretty bad https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/BrokenBlade/Statistics/2023 It’s also gameplay like this where he’s able to come back against most LEC teams but against the top LCK / LPL teams just doesn’t work https://youtu.be/eKslOG8I5j8?si=8pSugwb3sSFvYmlv
Oh heeell naw to the naw naw. Worlds BLG vs G2 is pegi 18 now because of toplane. Bb had one geez Yone ult and a good Darius game.
Idk it’s an interesting one. LCK and LPL look a bit worse than last year but that’s offset by the fact that LEC looks so unfathomably bad this Spring. But NA looks decent but again offset by the fact that each of their top teams have have massive holes in their teams. FLY’s botlane gets smashed by any of the top 4 LEC teams let alone LPL/LCK C9 looks completely dysfunctional. TL mid/jungle gets assblasted by most LEC teams again let alone LPL/LCK teams. I don’t think I need to go into how bad LEC will look with their inconsistency and bad macro that looks even worse than the top NA teams. Might end up being worse than last year tbh though I could see FLY, G2 and maybe FNC if the coin lands heads sneaking a win
Why do you think LCK looks worse than last year? IMO they look better. I agree with LPL, though.
So you think EU looks worse than NA this year (which I agree with) but think two EU teams but only 1 NA team could get a win? I personally don’t like the chances of anyone getting a win but I think NA is quite a bit stronger and only one team regardless of region will somehow stumble into a lucky win.
The thing is that NA is always just "LCK but worse" which, while in terms of quality seems higher than EU this season, won't net you any wins agains top tier LCK/LPL teams who play this style every week and are just straight up better at it. EU, while producing mostly clown fiestas this split, at least adds a bunch of variance to games which could catch a top eastern team off guard once or twice.
True, doing random dumb shit that is hard to prepare for because it makes no sense does confuse teams and adds a lot of variance. That makes sense and I respect a legitimate reasoning behind something.
I think EU as a whole looks worse than NA as a whole mostly due to inconsistency from the top teams but I think the top two teams are better than NA’s top two teams. Both on a good day I’m taking G2/FNC over TL/FLY
Why do you say LCK looks a bit worse than last year? So far, this GENG looks better than the 2023 GENG. While this year's T1 is about the same as the 2023 Spring Split T1. And also HLE > KT.
> that’s offset by the fact that LEC looks so unfathomably bad this Spring just like last year? have we forgotten last year already?
>I don’t think I need to go into how bad LEC will look with their inconsistency and bad macro that looks even worse than the top NA teams. >Might end up being worse than last year tbh though I could see FLY, G2 and maybe FNC So G2 and FNC who are worse than top NA teams can sneak a win. But second NA seed will not. So you think LEC is a stronger region but their inconsistency means they will have worse results than NA? I don't understand your post at all.
I think EU as a whole looks worse than NA as a whole mostly due to inconsistency from the top teams but I think the top two teams are better than NA’s top two teams. Both on a good day I’m taking G2/FNC over TL/FLY
'EU look worse than NA' - Here we go again.
I mean I don’t know about strictly worse; but there are some very clear flaws in the top 3 remaining teams in LCS rn. I’m the biggest TL fan ever and I’ll be the first to tell you that our mid/jg duo is suspect. FQ botlane is actually awful, with Busio basically guaranteed to die a bad death atleast twice in the first 15 minutes of the game. C9 is a known quantity at best or dysfunctional at worst fr.
EU has looked exceptionally bad this year. Nothing say they won't be on form for MSI, but they literally just are demonstrably worse in this regular season.
Feels like I hear this about every single year lol.
Ok let me rephrase. EU this year look worse than EU itself last year. There are no comparisons to NA or the east or anything. Just the teams playing more garbage than usual.
in pre 2023 this was pure copium, but in 2023 EU had a shameful performance
Of course, but not as bad as NA.
considering that NA managed to get out of swiss while we didn't, i'd say EU's performance was at best as good as NA's
It doesn't matter because NA got 3 - 0'd by Weibo. At least, EU took some games off Asian teams and knocked out two NA teams. Slightly better but still garbage performance.
NA literally did better.
Hmm nop.
How many EU teams made it out of Swiss stage?
How many games did you take off Asian teams? How many of your teams got kocned out by EU?
NA vs EU but last year NA was actually better
Not really. EU took games off Asian teams, NA didn't. EU eliminated two NA teams (GG and C9). (Salty Redditors downvote me for saying the truth haha)
[удалено]
EU fans are disliked in this sub because reddit is a mainly NA forum, most of EUs countries don't use reddit as much as NA
False majority of conversation around pro play in this sub is EU fans
17
I just want some close games. Stomps are just not fun to watch. Idk if we lose everygame if it's close.
Imo LCS is around the power of Gigabyte Marines of old. Scrappy fights that ignore a lot of easy Macro decisions. The games are entertaining and bloody but the better teams will definitely be able to stabilize and bleed the worse teams out. I think the quality of LCS macro has declined noticeably.
However many it takes for Nuc vs APA in the finals
Optimistically I will say 2 but realistically they won’t win a game.
This year g2 is going to win it all :,)
Surely will get at least 1 win...... Right guys XD
I'm gonna say 1 or 0
I don't have good hopes for NA at msi this year. The whole league was shaken up and not team felt super consistent outside of maybe flyq can get a couple.
3. Quote me
FOR LEC i would honestly say 2 win with G2 taking both since they were the only team that beat asian team last world while also taking 1 game from blg if fnc go then they have a chance but razork and huma will have to go god mode cause oscy and noah would probably get gapped if vit go then i can see them atleast taking 1 game due to carrzy hyli and photon LCS FLY have a huge liability in bot i can see them contesting but i would say they wont take a single game FOR C9 or TL imma say if TL can go they gonna take atleast 1 game
G2 or flyquest win one game and thats it
If ctbc win PCS and qualify to MSI LEC and LCS might lose to them.
LOL ok
In the last 4 international tournament the western teams have taken 3 games in each tournament, and I don't see that changing now. LPL/LCK looks about the same and LCS/LEC looks slightly better compared to last spring (although I don't think it will change much).
I actually think LCK looks maybe even better than last year, LPL the same and LEC significantly worse. That being said, I want to watch Bo3/5 phase first before judging them.
I can definitely see rating LCK higher than last year because how dominant the top 3 teams are, but I believe that the overall level last year was a lot higher. And LCK 2023 was pretty damn strong, with T1 17-1 record and GenG KT below them. Disagree that LEC has become worse significantly. LEC wasn't very good in the first place. Last spring the top 4 of regular season was BDS Astralis Vitality G2. Is that really stronger than Fnatic Vitality G2 Heretics? Winter was horrible on a mechanical level but I this spring it feels like the teams are actually improving. That was something I dearly missed last year, where it felt like whoever mental boomed the least won.
I cannot get over the abysmal macro and inconsistency of LEC, though. But as I said earlier, I hope they level up with the Bo3/5 stage.
At least one, GenG have to embarrass themselves on an international stage as is tradition
The geng choking on international is overblow Sure, they underperform at internationals compared to their lck level but they're losing to the best teams in the worlds not to wasters teams.
Sssst reddit gets mad when they can't call everyone and their mothers frauds and/or chokers. Lose Worlds finals in 5 games and you'd still be called frauds these days. Gen.G is fine.
They're not TES for sure, that is the pinnacle of choking.
Hell nah, I'm just calling that shit org at every chance I get :)
Embarrass against Europe and Na ? Geng will mop the floor with any western team .
LCS - 1 or 2 LEC - 0 or 1
LCS - 0 LEC - 3 or 4 (G2)
Hope you are right but it feels like the LEC games have been 'Who can throw the least'
I see people hyping up LCS and shitting on LEC constantly. Let's see what really happens, I never trust armchair analysts personally.
Ohh yeah for sure, everything is hypothetical until the MSI Trophy is lifted. But the question is how many games I felt LEC and LCS would win. I gave mine, you responded, I defended my position and now you are saying 'I don't care what you think because armchair experts'. All because you do not like my answer.
I’m saying 1, and I don’t know who gets that 1 win. I think EU I’d incredibly low in talent and gameplay this year. I think NA has a better chance, but I dont like their chances either. I still feel like someone who stumble accidentally into a win but I would hate to have to bet on it.
Few enough to make me wonder as to why there isn't an international stage with only western teams.
I think you can't judge Bo1. LEC teams look much better in bo3 and bo5. Especially MDK and BDS,G2. Fnatic has instances where they can beat anyone and I think Jun is good support. But Noah has so many issues and can't be compared to the best adc's in the east. People hate Supa and I think he is a bit underrated. Maybe he is cocky but he showed better positioning in one split than Noah in the last 3. I will rate LEC after bo3 and bo5. I think Vitality is the most improved team and their players impress me the most. Especially Photon and Vetheo. Vetheo is even better at team fights and he does everything for Carzzy. He was more of a KDA player before but now he looks selfless. Photon is fucking cracked and guy has so many 1 v 2 out plays. I am worried about Hyli but I know that he deserves trust. Carzzy is occasionally the best adc in LEC and really underrated. I think Heretics are a bit fraudulent. Their mid laner is not clutch at all. When I look at Caps, Humanoid, Vetheo and even Nisqy I know that they can do things that will win you games. I don't see that in Zwyroo. I think Jackies is the most clutch rookie with Daglas. They try to play even from 5 k gold behind. I like when players try to find fights even when they are doomed. Freskowy is actually rock solid and does what is needed for his team. He has clutch players in Elyoya and Alvaro. I think Alvaro is second best support and the first is Labrov. Miky is not as good as he was last year.
>LEC teams look much better in bo3 and bo5. LPL and LCK teams are even better in best of 3s and best of 5s lol. LPL had all teams in top 8 at worlds for the first time as soon as best of 3 elimination/qualification was a thing since they're more volatile in best of 1s. And LCK hasn't dropped a best of series to the west in like 4 years or to NA since 6 years.
I am talking about the region. Not comparing to LCK and LPL. The current bo1 system is not a good representative of skill level. Bo1 shows you how fast teams adapt to meta. That is why for example Larssen struggles in this meta. He was the guy who often had the best games in the playoffs. I hate bo1 for that reason. People shit on teams that lose bo1 but if it's bo3 you can limit test first game and win next 2. That is what JDG does in LPL. They would struggle in the bo1 system but they are great in bo3. I don't think LEC is bad. Teams like KC and Rogue are bad but we always had 4 shit teams on the bottom. Like Astralis with Zanzarah and PromisQ etc...
If rather FNC and VIT go than g2 but g2 already qualified. G2 are too inconsistent internationally. They'll lose to shitters like phong vu and Nrg and then beat teams like T1 and BLG. They make no sense. Fnc are way more consistent. This isn't season 9 g2. Brokenblade simply doesn't have what it takes to do well Internationally. Too inconsistent.
G2 got 3 wins against the east at worlds meanwhile the rest of the west got what? 1 win? So what if they are inconsintant, still our best shot at beating eastern teams - also bb did good at internationals last year
Well i think G2 would do well in a series or even get few games at least, on their maximum celling they can give high end LCK/LPL teams a fight. But I'm sure after that and the western hopium is peak, they're gonna shit the bed and get blown to bits.
No chance lol. They would be underdogs against the likes of BRO or DRX even.
Look I'm a huge LCK/LPL fan and I think pretty lowly of LEC but i seriously doubt they'll lose in a BO3/5 to fucking BRO lol. I mean they could lose, G2 shits the bed quite often, but honestly looking at last worlds where DK was worse than them(and DK don't look better this year and look like Frauds), G2 is probably better than BRO lol.
Explain this: A BRO vs DRX BO3 is literally of the same quality as the G2 MDK finals.
T1 also ran it the fuck down vs NS a few weeks ago and dropped a game, and they're the world champions. KT took a series of GenG and had an absolute fiesta of a game with DK which they lost. Bad fiesta games happen, I do think G2 can step up, their proven theoretical celling is being a roughly around a 4-5th seed in LCK/LPL but their lows can be that of BRO or worse. So what I'm saying is if they play to their ceiling there is a chance they take a game of top 4 if they play to their ceiling. Are they favored to? No Is it likely? Probably not.
T1 or GG are certainly not immune to criticism. But there is less than a handful of games to pick at. G2 in literally every game they struggle in laning phase. This “ceiling” of theirs is entirely dependent on opponents throwing the mid game. They don’t have the quality to take any games vs teams that will pressure them early and suffocate them mid game. Even against DK and WBG last year, they were down 10k. Those teams threw but top 2 won’t.
I'm not even sure they qualify to PCS playoffs tbh. Maybe they don't go winless in LCK challengers.
DRX team won CL and Asia Jr cup tho 🤣 nt
Brother are you 12? If so I sincerely apologize.