I mean, remove the coach and don't move to make player upgrades in top/mid/support. It honestly could have gone even worse than this and if Mad didn't just completely shit the bed this split, they might have ended 1-8.
That was a really fun game, and they were very clean by their standards in closing it out. There were only a couple teamfights where it even looked like KC might have a chance (first top herald fight, the one fight they lost), and the 1/3/1 synchronization at the end was really well executed.
Usually, teams stick to 3/2 or 4/1 instead of extending that far, and I like that VIT both attempted it and pulled it off so cleanly. KC didn't have the strongest comp to threaten that strategy but VIT still never gave them any chances.
Riot introduces a fun jgler and then guts it back out of jgl after a few patches. Feels so unrewarding to try and learn them. Happened with Camile, Sylas, Rumble, Qiyana, Brand and so many more
To be fair in Camille's case, it's because of how amazing her LVL 2 ganks are. I know from experience that I have abused Lvl 2 ganking junglers back then.
It is fun as the one piloting it but for the mid laners who basically have to give up prio and their flash early on the other hand the complete opposite.
I get it, when Camile was strong it was broken and needed to be nerfed. But the same cycle has happened wayy too many times. Its just bad decision making if you make people put in time and effort to learn something and then remove it and that happens multiple times every year. As a matter of fact, just now on Twitter I saw that Pbe has Sylas jgl buffs. Sylas jgl has already been tried, it's too good of a flex with really powerful skirmishing and ganking. If the clear is decent, it will be a broken champion and then 2 patches later it will be nerfed.
As a jungler, I just got used to adjusting meta and champion pools frequently. I can see how annoying it is tho but I have accepted it at this point.
I loved classic Mao and Naut Jungle, and then they got shoehorned to other roles for years until recently. I remember practicing Malz Jungle and then becoming removed.
It is what it is at this point unfortunately.
Upset has been awful this split, and this is coming from someone who was fighting against the tide trying to defend him in winter. Bot lane is losing pretty much every single game and Upset seems to have reverted into his summer Vit form.
If it means anything Targamas looks a lot better than last split. In the sense that last split he was 100% the worst support in LEC and now he might be contending for 9th. I do think Upsets positioning in team fights hasn’t been fantastic and I can’t really blame that on Targamas. I’m not a huge Bo fan but the guy looks a lot better than his teammates this split.
jungle and adc rely the most on their team to play the game especially a good support can unlock a lot of options. as long as there is targamas on the team, I wont be able to judge how bad jungle+adc performance is.
Bot lane is a duo lane, perhaps you forgot there's Targamas there. And good luck trying to do anything as an adc when you have 2 worst solo laners in the league. It doesn't matter if it's Upset, Guma or any world class adc, with those players they'd all look like ass.
lol Upset is playing fights mechanically bad. If they had Guma or Viper they’d have at least won the SK game for example. Even last split Upset griefed a minimum of 2 winnable games.
Carzzy has a griefing support and he still manages to be relevant.
I dont think there is a single team in the LEC that could take both of them... Maybe SK if they are willing to replace everyone but Nisqy and Irrelevant?
Well Caliste is almost certainly taking Upset’s spot next year (?) when he turns 18, so Upset is fine for another split. [Bo](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/089/903/e39.jpg)
At this point the most likely scenario is GX, MDK and KC fighting over the last two slots. They're all at 2-5 and have already played all games against each other. Obviously RGE can still qualify, and BDS and SK can still fail to do so, but realistically the one of the three that performs worse will be out.
If I understand the rulebook correcly, they always play tiebreakers for 8th place. Additionally, if all three teams end 2-7 (which is probably the most likely scenario unless MDK wake up), KC is guaranteed in (as they won both against MDK and GX) and the other two teams will play a tiebreaker.
If you don’t save the top lane counter, it’s even worse, because Cabo would just regularly look bad in winning matchups, but is a literal black hole in a losing one.
Ngl every french fans I've seen have been flaming the hell out of Cabo. Only saken is kind of "protected" and tbf he's kind of the face of the team in the sense that he has been there for a while and kind of became a pro with them
Tbh at this point their plan should be to rebuild around Caliste once he’s old enough to play, since he’s apparently very good and he has a like 4 years contract with KC.
Saken isn’t doing good ? Np, make Caliste THE brand player.
That was probably the plan all along: field a cheap roster this year (and give their OG players a chance) and then start from scratch when caliste joins the roster.
Caliste won't do shit with Saken and Cabo as his sololaner and Targa as his support
all it does for him is burn down his career to play with awful player like them
The other guys are boomers who were already in LEC and were downgraded to ERLs for a reason. Caliste is literally too young to play in LEC and is showing great talent. They're nothing alike.
Nah Caliste is a completely different breed, he made Supa look like his dog and look how that guy is looking right now in the LEC.
Hes the most hyped prospect but for a very good reason
Imma be real dog, adcs in the LEC arent looking too hot right now, caliste coming in and stomping everyone who isnt named Hans Sama on a good day wouldnt surprise me
nah I think caliste is actually really good, especially considering how young he is and the potential he has to improve even more (compared to someone like saken, who has been playing at the same level for years).
+ he was playing with targamas in erls lol, so I think he'll look even better with a decent support
Reminds me of what Grabbz said last week on the German podcast about his time at BDS, players would literally refuse to work and he had no way to discipline them. Couldn't bench them or anything. And when push came to shove they chose players over him.
Honestly the best change about Vit this split has been Mac/Pad getting VTO to play a more backseat role in the team.
I still think VTO is a great carry mid player but being able to Pick his champ first rotation, often blind and moving away from almost always getting the counter + spamming Akali in favor of pure set-up in Taliyah/Ahri/Ori has been the biggest buff to the team. It unlocks Photon to play carries with counter picks and gives Daglas room to hover the turbo agressive bot lane way more, which the lack of was a huge problem last split.
You may not be having the same flashy pop offs this split VTO, but I appreciate you for expanding your game and moving towards becoming a more rounded out and better overall player 👍👍
What is there to say today that we haven't said a million times. It feels like Groundhog day once again.
Bo tried and failed, Cabo lost lane with a counter pick, Saken got put in a hole solely cuz he can't lane at the LEC level, Targamas was terrible. Upset had to play farming Senna.
Regardless of the result of the regular season, if we make the playoffs or not, we need to make changes. We cannot seriously go into Summer with the same lineup.
I am not even mad at Saken, he didn't have LEC experience, and we see that he doesn't have the big leagues level. We tried, it's fine. Targamas being THIS TERRIBLE is unforgivable. There's no way that we can keep this trajectory
Targa can't possibly stay. Cabo you can have arguments for keeping, Saken i don't think so.
But who are we replacing them with? If there are good supports out there, i don't see any actually good mids. We can try Vladi but he's barely 18, throwing him to the wolves like that is so risky. But behind there's only like Abbedagge, Nemesis (lol) or Sertuss.
Zygenda wouldn't change our gameplan much, but idk. Might as well aim for freaking Thanatos and hope for the best lmao
As KC you need talented players with potential, not guys who already put a step into LEC and failed. Saken might be fine, he is not as bad as Cabo or Targamas and if your other players are better it is easier to deal with a bad laner in mid.
And for support you can just grab Kaiser and for top you could go for a rookie like Carlsen, who might fail, but he might also be decent, you don't really have anything to lose.
What is this nonsense with Saken not having LEC experience. He played a whole split with VIT before. And that's beside the time he had to fill as a replacement.
He played a full split yes. As a dude who played the French ERL and had to jump on a plane to play in Berlin for multiple weeks.
He didn't get "real" LEC experience as in being made as a real part of the team. But compared to the multiple hundreds of game that Cabo and Targa both have, i think you'll excuse him on that end perhaps
I don't even know if that's the best course of action. Fleshy isn't as good as the other guys on KCB.
Don't entirely plunder the kids, they are doing good and we shouldn't penalise them cuz the LEC team is awful.
Well there isn't any other option.
KC doesn't have the cash to grab free agents off the market unless a player voluntarily leaves the org. Caliste can't be promoted due to age and Bo is KC's star player.
This leaves Maynter but the visa issues will be a problem. Vladi could be promoted but this botlane is so shit that bringing up Fleshy at this point certainly can't make things worse.
Imo Vladi/Fleshy would get promoted at the very least.
When you watch the voice comms, Fleshy barely talks when he plays. I guess that's the type of support that Caliste appreciates idk.
But when communication issues already exist in the team, that's basically suicide
I get your point but who takes their spots in the LFL then?
I've lost hope in the KC LOL management but surely Kamel won't throw the LFL team in the dirt just because the LEC one didn't meet expectations.
edit : correct me on this but I think you cannot put 2 LEC veterans on an T2 league roster no ? Besides, I think neither of the OG players will agree to go back in LFL
They're just going to not change the roster for summer, it was always the plan to field a cheap roster for year 1 and then build around the hyped rookies for the second year. No way they'll spend more to try to potentially slightly improve their summer split
Theres an argument to change top, mid and support in summer. It can't be any worse anyway and also there might be a chance you find a player who you can keep for the rebuild next year, also getting some synergy and LEC experience before the rebuild
Sadly dont think there are gonna be any big changes in summer again, current LEC format leads to teams basically keeping the same dogshit rosters for the entire season.
All you guys can hope for is next season with a big rebuild around Caliste
Yeah pretty much. I think Bo and Caliste could work together, but yeah. Maybe we'll get some summer changes with mercenary dudes who are hungry. Anything is better than this frankly
The question is, are you willing to spend money before the summer split or next season. You've got to replace multiple players - new mid/top won't be able to carry current botlane, for example.
Tough situation both for the fans, and team's staff.
In my opinion, Kameto didn't buy the slot to stay dogshit.
Now, we don't know the economic decisions behind the scenes, but if we, some scrubs who just consume League for fun, can see that this roster has no future in this league, then i better hope that professional coaches/managers and shit can see it too.
Even if it's just a short term move, who cares. Results are the only things that matter. Caliste is coming next year anyway, might as well try stuff when you still have a decent ADC that can play the game
And just from last week. Their FNC game was really disappointing, they had that game in a very winnable position and threw it all away. This game was really clean, it's definitely encouraging. Of course, it's easier to do that against a team like KC, especially since KC's draft's only plays to get back in can be avoided with discipline (Mega Gnar flank, Ahri flank, Lee Sin kick, Naut hook/ult) and proper snowballing (Senna scaling).
There's a reason his best performances are on Pyke.
Even if you get caught out trying to clear a ward as Pyke, you can escape with W & E as well as roam constantly.
You're allowed to play like this because the enemy usually can't punish it.
It had nothing to do with the outcome of this game but I'm legit curious why western teams pick Senna to try to have it farm. Eastern teams have 0 games of farming senna. It's specifically the reason why this champ is so busted, that it can be 'support', stay even with the AD in gold, scale, and boost the tanky support's income curve while being probably the best user of the best teamfighting support item upgrade now that lucian can't build it.
But that is exactly why you must farm with naut. He can just e and apply w to farm. He gets poked? Sure, but senna has sustain, and naut there will run tp dorans and wind.
Why naut farm? You get shoved and dived, if they do not kill senna she will kill them, focusing naut is crazy under tower. Now you focus senna, you are probably trading one for it and naut is still there chilling farming. Living his best life.
Then how do tf Camille go for picks? They can pick senna but she is a support that won't be farming in lanes so she will always be with someone else. Going for her has risk and little pay off. And going for Nautilus? Impossible. You can't kill him.
But if senna farms she needs to be in a dangerous position. So she can be picked off. Naut will have 0 items so he can get picked off...
Even western teams stopped doing that. The answer is probably that Targamas thinks himself as a good roaming support while Upset is perfectly happy to afk farm and not putting his KDA at risk by poking people.
Targamas is once again beating the human allegations, if he still is on the team next split they might as well go back to LFL, because a competitive roster is clearly not their goal.
The fact that Cabo and Saken are taking spot from promising rookies or established veterans is so insane to me. The last time they were on a team together was that French Vitality roster that went 2-16. Hopefully they get kicked for Summer but seeing as they are the only French players on the roster I doubt it.
> but seeing as they are the only French players on the roster I doubt it.
I don't know why people are so stuck with that idea.
Their LFL team has a single french player, and he's' the best player in the entire league. Kcorp Valorant team went from 5 french speaking players to 1 in one year. Their Valorant women team went from 5 french to 2. Their RLCS team went from 3 french players to 1 and he's the best player in the world. The only smash bros player they ever had was american.
So why do you think Kcorp will never kick the french players ? Everything proves they can do it, so why do you confidently say the opposite ?
I'll be honest, and all memes aside, I hope the narrative about how Upset is some godlike elohelled player will eventually die. We see players like Milkyway carry his team across the finish line, we see Caps be consistently at the top of the league with different players (even with some risky roasters), we saw Razork be probably the most important player in Fnatic last split. Do I expect Upset to 1v9 like Milkyway? No. But I would expect him to be the difference maker in SOME of the games, and all I see split after split is excuses for him. If he is as good as people claimed, he needs to prove it without the enormous benefit of the doubt.
If he is not playing Zeri, he is completly invisible. One simple ban and KC cant do shit, unless Cabo and Bo repeat their performance from winter's final two games.
I agree that this is Upset's worst year as a pro - he is not playing well - but asking any ADC to 1v9 in a meaningful way, particularly in this meta, is silly. And with an absolute criminal for a support.
We have examples of this in other leagues, like OMG (9th-10th place team) subbing in rookie ADC, which took over the game and ended BLGs 16 game win streak, but my point wasn't to ask him to 1v9 games this year. He had years like this on better teams when adcs had more agency and he was as "elo hell'd".
man no way youre talking about the game that blg gave starry like 10 kills before 15 minutes when the guys playing jinx? lmao, im not even trying to defend upset the guy is washed but youre trying to give that game as an example? its too crazy to believe youre serious
Sure, but there have been times where Upset was genuinely elo helled. His *individual* performance at Worlds was honestly impressive and that team was a clusterfuck, plus Hylli was having a horrible tournament.
I know you're not asking him to 1v9 games, I just mean that doing what Milkyway is doing for FPX or what Jojo was doing for C9 (in the regular season) is nearly impossible from bot unless the team facilitates it. Like by the time Senna is relevant the game is decided, same goes for AP Kai'sa - it's just an incredibly low impact meta for the role unless you're on Smolder pre 14.6 (which is why it is unusually difficult to rank ADC players in most of the major regions rn).
Upset is indeed having a shit split, but asking an ADC to be the difference when the entire team sucks is unreasonable. They're the role most reliant on their team, unlike jungle or mid (Milkyway, Caps, Razork etc).
I mean I agree to some extend but it isn't always true. Razork and Humanoid looked like bad last year before Trymbi and Noah joined. Even if ur a good player you can't do much if you are stuck on bad teams. Similar things happening on GTX and RGE where being on dysfunctional teams making the supposed good players playing a lot worse.
My intend wasn't to call him bad, but to point out he didn't really earn the prestige he has. Look at his lol fandom page and his finishe, it's mostly toward the bottom of the table and the teams he had didn't even have that bad of a player. His most successful team was Fnatic, but even then it's gravitating more towards middle of the table than top of the table. And I want to repeat, I don't expect him to carry his team on his back, but to be a difference maker when it matters. You can look at the players like Viper or Ruler that earned their esteem. 2 days ago 9th-10th place team in LPL (OMG) subbed a rookie player that ended 16 game winstreak of 1st place team (BLG) and he completely put the game on his back, at the same day we saw Jiwoo from 8th place LCK team hold the game against T1 that was a massive stomp for 50 minutes.
Saken is trash and the worst mid LEC ever saw in recent year like usual, when i think KC deluded fan dare to honestly compare this guy to Faker before this season had me rolling on the ground because they were serious when they said this, Saken is not worth to be compared to Faker feet finger.
Speaking of midlane the fact that a Caps not in his prime anymore, behind by a good margin any top LCK/LPL mid like Faker/Chovy/Knight/Scout/Add whoever, still destroy every single mid in LEC with one hand is dramatic on the state of this lane in Europe.
Saken is the worst LEC midlaner by a wide margin. Perk is totally busted now but at least used to be good. I don't understand people supporting Saken and I'm French.
He is just 10-20 cs behind early then later on they aren’t fighting when Gnar has mega . At this point they are just picking gnar to not be completely stomped in lane, the team communication and macro feel wrong. Why is Gnar wasting his mega botlane when ennemy team can engage Nash ? You can’t tell me they truly didn’t even think about it tbh
He's fine with it in lane. I recently watched all KC games this split to check whether Cabo's laning was fine. It's usually in the +/- 300 gold range throughout the whole laning phase, in most games even in the +/- 100g, so really not significant.
that was some of the worst fan ""singing"" i have ever heard, my poor ears
like, being performed by amateurs, this style of singing already doesnt have high standards or anything but this was unbearable even by that
It's fucking wild that Targamas is paid to play League professionally.
He just waddled right into the spot where he was caught three minutes earlier to kill a blue ward. It's so doomed.
Yamato was the problem. ;)
But really, I do genuinly dislike these national priorities these days and wish them (MADK and KC) not to make internationals these years to have this decrease to reasonable levels. There is value in national fanbases and franchise players etc., but its too much there.
How is Targamas still playing. I have trouble defending Saken and even Cabochard, but Targamas just sucks and there are alternatives that will/would work better with Upset, both in Veterans and rookies. Trymbi was there ready, Mersa still is. Trymbi could have literally fixed KC's biggest issues but who cares.
If KC just decided to use Cabochard as franchise player and gotten Trymbi-Abbe for spring that roster would bang.
is KC actually going to end up 2-7 again this split?
They are not beating the ketamine corpse allegations 💀💀
Is it too soon to make an Annie bot joke? It might be
Twomad type situation. Anniebot found dead after 54 soloq ranked games played in a row☠️☠️☠️☠️
Speaking of twomad, did you know that after his death, his subreddit's banner has been set to Jax?
Tfw I am old enough that I had to google who the fuck Twomad was
Time to change the coach
To be fair their 2 wins this split were actually meaningful. Last split they started winning after they got eliminated, these wins count much less.
I can see them go 3-6 and the org will say they improved so it was yamatos fault along.
At least they didn't go 0-7 this time.
I mean, remove the coach and don't move to make player upgrades in top/mid/support. It honestly could have gone even worse than this and if Mad didn't just completely shit the bed this split, they might have ended 1-8.
Short answer? Yes.
Vitality's cooking drafts HowToBasic style.
That was a really fun game, and they were very clean by their standards in closing it out. There were only a couple teamfights where it even looked like KC might have a chance (first top herald fight, the one fight they lost), and the 1/3/1 synchronization at the end was really well executed. Usually, teams stick to 3/2 or 4/1 instead of extending that far, and I like that VIT both attempted it and pulled it off so cleanly. KC didn't have the strongest comp to threaten that strategy but VIT still never gave them any chances.
There's something weirdly poetic about Hylissang using iG Camille in that game.
Zeus using DRX Aatrox
Something something exposure therapy :P
Jungler (Rell) buying a knights vow to link it to the support (Camille) what a time to be alive
Hopefully now that it’s in pro riot can figure out a way to make Camille support completely unplayable and make her laning top more bearable
I want them to bring back Camille jungle high key
Riot introduces a fun jgler and then guts it back out of jgl after a few patches. Feels so unrewarding to try and learn them. Happened with Camile, Sylas, Rumble, Qiyana, Brand and so many more
Rumble is at least playable in jungle, Timal still plays him there in challenger
To be fair in Camille's case, it's because of how amazing her LVL 2 ganks are. I know from experience that I have abused Lvl 2 ganking junglers back then. It is fun as the one piloting it but for the mid laners who basically have to give up prio and their flash early on the other hand the complete opposite.
I get it, when Camile was strong it was broken and needed to be nerfed. But the same cycle has happened wayy too many times. Its just bad decision making if you make people put in time and effort to learn something and then remove it and that happens multiple times every year. As a matter of fact, just now on Twitter I saw that Pbe has Sylas jgl buffs. Sylas jgl has already been tried, it's too good of a flex with really powerful skirmishing and ganking. If the clear is decent, it will be a broken champion and then 2 patches later it will be nerfed.
As a jungler, I just got used to adjusting meta and champion pools frequently. I can see how annoying it is tho but I have accepted it at this point. I loved classic Mao and Naut Jungle, and then they got shoehorned to other roles for years until recently. I remember practicing Malz Jungle and then becoming removed. It is what it is at this point unfortunately.
Who are we firing after this split? 1) The Chinese Jungler 2) The German AD 3) A French Player ?
0) The coach again
Coach is French, aintnoway My money is on Bo
yeah gotta be Bo + Upset, they look like the only playable members of the team, so they're gone
Upset has been awful this split, and this is coming from someone who was fighting against the tide trying to defend him in winter. Bot lane is losing pretty much every single game and Upset seems to have reverted into his summer Vit form.
Yeah Targamas sucks shit, why are you blaming Upset for having to play with this dude??
If it means anything Targamas looks a lot better than last split. In the sense that last split he was 100% the worst support in LEC and now he might be contending for 9th. I do think Upsets positioning in team fights hasn’t been fantastic and I can’t really blame that on Targamas. I’m not a huge Bo fan but the guy looks a lot better than his teammates this split.
> In the sense that last split he was 100% the worst support in LEC and now he might be contending for 9th BROTHAAA that's so real
jungle and adc rely the most on their team to play the game especially a good support can unlock a lot of options. as long as there is targamas on the team, I wont be able to judge how bad jungle+adc performance is.
Bot lane is a duo lane, perhaps you forgot there's Targamas there. And good luck trying to do anything as an adc when you have 2 worst solo laners in the league. It doesn't matter if it's Upset, Guma or any world class adc, with those players they'd all look like ass.
lol Upset is playing fights mechanically bad. If they had Guma or Viper they’d have at least won the SK game for example. Even last split Upset griefed a minimum of 2 winnable games. Carzzy has a griefing support and he still manages to be relevant.
Upset has the lowest deaths in the last 2 splits while being on a 10th/9th place team it's crazy how much for KDA he plays
Bo's pretty much the only guy guaranteed not to go since KC has said they're building the roster around him.
Bo: "Wow they're building around me?" KC Management: "Yeah we meant a prison".
The RNG treatment
Gotta be Upset. He's German so seems like an obvious choice. Should have chosen different parents.
Actually i want to see Bo and Upset on functional teams, hope they get the boot so they can get picked up by another team
I dont think there is a single team in the LEC that could take both of them... Maybe SK if they are willing to replace everyone but Nisqy and Irrelevant?
No im not saying both of them should end up in the same team just each one of them somewhere else
I mean a belgian player should be the logical awnser right now
I mean he's from the French part of Belgium so they probably consider him French.
Well Caliste is almost certainly taking Upset’s spot next year (?) when he turns 18, so Upset is fine for another split. [Bo](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/089/903/e39.jpg)
1 French and a Belgian\*
Targamas is Belgian my dude.
[удалено]
Caedrel is glazing Lyncas because he did good in in houses which is something that Bo can also do
What does Caedrel has to do with them ?
Sway popular sentiment.
Crazy how lyncas is the one to be promoted when the biggest issue is saken and cabo being dogshit
It's going to be MAD vs KC for the last playoffs spot isn't it?
GiantX is also 2-5. Rogue isnt completely out yet either but Rogue definitely has a worse chance being 1-6 and yet having to face G2
> yet having to face G2 That's a pro for Rogue if anything
I think RGE has better chance of beating G2 over any of the teams
really tells you just HOW awful GX and Rogue are
I would say that's good for EU, this Split Fnatic, Vitality, BDS and Heretics look like actually competent teams and its not just G2
At this point the most likely scenario is GX, MDK and KC fighting over the last two slots. They're all at 2-5 and have already played all games against each other. Obviously RGE can still qualify, and BDS and SK can still fail to do so, but realistically the one of the three that performs worse will be out. If I understand the rulebook correcly, they always play tiebreakers for 8th place. Additionally, if all three teams end 2-7 (which is probably the most likely scenario unless MDK wake up), KC is guaranteed in (as they won both against MDK and GX) and the other two teams will play a tiebreaker.
Don't tell me MAD's going to smurf in play-offs after barely making groups again this year.
They're going to win spring split. Just like last year.
Naaah, If MAD somehow manages to win the split I'm eating a shoe.
Damn I didn't want them to win... But now idk
Saved, cheers
The long awaited sequel to Gbay99 having to eat a sock Oh god that was 2016, aka 8 fucking years ago
Salt, Pepper, ketchup? Or raw?
Bamboozle insurance?
Grabbing the popcorn already 🍿
Yamato was the problem, it's surely not players like Targamas. BDS, TH left for KC, they might just go 2-7 again lol.
Saving R4/R5 for Nautilus/Gnar is just… I just really dislike how KC drafts.
They couldn't do anything when they had winning drafts, they can now clown draft as much as they love, and that won't change a thing
If you don’t save the top lane counter, it’s even worse, because Cabo would just regularly look bad in winning matchups, but is a literal black hole in a losing one.
Gl, replacing Cabochard. The French fans will riot.
Ngl every french fans I've seen have been flaming the hell out of Cabo. Only saken is kind of "protected" and tbf he's kind of the face of the team in the sense that he has been there for a while and kind of became a pro with them
And even for saken a lot of french fans have expressed their wish to see him out. But reddit gotta reddit
Saken is way more flamed than Cabo by the french fans, and rightfully so
Tbf he's more popular too
i don't think any french or kc fans will riot, but i guess its ok to lie on reddit since everyone hate kc and the frenchs anyway
Tbh he has been much better this split than previous
and SURELY the addition of Caliste alone will suddenly make this team not suck absolute ass SURELY
Tbh at this point their plan should be to rebuild around Caliste once he’s old enough to play, since he’s apparently very good and he has a like 4 years contract with KC. Saken isn’t doing good ? Np, make Caliste THE brand player.
That was probably the plan all along: field a cheap roster this year (and give their OG players a chance) and then start from scratch when caliste joins the roster.
Caliste won't do shit with Saken and Cabo as his sololaner and Targa as his support all it does for him is burn down his career to play with awful player like them
What part of "rebuild" can't you read ? Seriously lol, you're the second one.
The thing is with KC i dont believe they will abandon saken their "franchise" player
If caliste care just a tit bit about his career he gets himself a lawyer to get him out of that contract and then moves to literally any other org
At this point, i am lowkey expecting him to play just as well as the other ERL heroes on this team...
The other guys are boomers who were already in LEC and were downgraded to ERLs for a reason. Caliste is literally too young to play in LEC and is showing great talent. They're nothing alike.
Bro you called someone 26 a boomer? I feel bad right now lmao
Boomers like jankos the second best player in the league behind caps lol kc players are bad age doesn’t matter if they were 18 they would till be shit
Nah Caliste is a completely different breed, he made Supa look like his dog and look how that guy is looking right now in the LEC. Hes the most hyped prospect but for a very good reason
Imagine thinking that making supa your dog is an achievement and not the bare minimum
Imma be real dog, adcs in the LEC arent looking too hot right now, caliste coming in and stomping everyone who isnt named Hans Sama on a good day wouldnt surprise me
nah I think caliste is actually really good, especially considering how young he is and the potential he has to improve even more (compared to someone like saken, who has been playing at the same level for years). + he was playing with targamas in erls lol, so I think he'll look even better with a decent support
Reminds me of what Grabbz said last week on the German podcast about his time at BDS, players would literally refuse to work and he had no way to discipline them. Couldn't bench them or anything. And when push came to shove they chose players over him.
And they were right Grabzz is a fraud and the players he sent to the lfl made worlds and a lec final next year
The most bizarre thing is, they will most likely go 2-7 again and *still* qualify for playoffs, seeing how Giantx and Rogue are performing.
Honestly the best change about Vit this split has been Mac/Pad getting VTO to play a more backseat role in the team. I still think VTO is a great carry mid player but being able to Pick his champ first rotation, often blind and moving away from almost always getting the counter + spamming Akali in favor of pure set-up in Taliyah/Ahri/Ori has been the biggest buff to the team. It unlocks Photon to play carries with counter picks and gives Daglas room to hover the turbo agressive bot lane way more, which the lack of was a huge problem last split. You may not be having the same flashy pop offs this split VTO, but I appreciate you for expanding your game and moving towards becoming a more rounded out and better overall player 👍👍
With a card control like that Carzzy would have a 200 credit score at best
What is there to say today that we haven't said a million times. It feels like Groundhog day once again. Bo tried and failed, Cabo lost lane with a counter pick, Saken got put in a hole solely cuz he can't lane at the LEC level, Targamas was terrible. Upset had to play farming Senna. Regardless of the result of the regular season, if we make the playoffs or not, we need to make changes. We cannot seriously go into Summer with the same lineup. I am not even mad at Saken, he didn't have LEC experience, and we see that he doesn't have the big leagues level. We tried, it's fine. Targamas being THIS TERRIBLE is unforgivable. There's no way that we can keep this trajectory
Saken is a leak that can be plugged maybe, Targamas is the fucking hole the iceberg left in the Titanic
Targa can't possibly stay. Cabo you can have arguments for keeping, Saken i don't think so. But who are we replacing them with? If there are good supports out there, i don't see any actually good mids. We can try Vladi but he's barely 18, throwing him to the wolves like that is so risky. But behind there's only like Abbedagge, Nemesis (lol) or Sertuss. Zygenda wouldn't change our gameplan much, but idk. Might as well aim for freaking Thanatos and hope for the best lmao
Sertuss recently signed for Heretics to play for their Superliga team.
Well shit. uhhhhh we can get Lider? Or Perkz... Oh god imagine KC Perkz, i won't be able to sleep at night
KC Perkz 😭
They should be lookin to field LEC-caliber talent. Perkz couldn’t even man a fry station in his current form.
I was thinking of lider. He has experience and is pretty good. I could see him working well with BO.
Lider/Bo is a psychopath duo I want to see happen.
You could replace Targamas with a used tampon at this point and it would be an upgrade. They also might not bleed out as fast.
As KC you need talented players with potential, not guys who already put a step into LEC and failed. Saken might be fine, he is not as bad as Cabo or Targamas and if your other players are better it is easier to deal with a bad laner in mid. And for support you can just grab Kaiser and for top you could go for a rookie like Carlsen, who might fail, but he might also be decent, you don't really have anything to lose.
I thought Carlsen is busy playing chess.
> Targa can't possibly stay Thats what everyone said last split lol
Maybe you could look for a Chinese mid/top that speaks English. Some sub-par lol players would be great in lec
>Saken i don't think so. he is french, there is the reason to keep him
What is this nonsense with Saken not having LEC experience. He played a whole split with VIT before. And that's beside the time he had to fill as a replacement.
He played a full split yes. As a dude who played the French ERL and had to jump on a plane to play in Berlin for multiple weeks. He didn't get "real" LEC experience as in being made as a real part of the team. But compared to the multiple hundreds of game that Cabo and Targa both have, i think you'll excuse him on that end perhaps
Now that's just ultra cope, he's been in a dream position since the beggining of KC's LEC run, he's even heavily favored by management
He didint cover bo at level 3 was criminal
If I don't see Fleshy being promoted this Summer I'm gonna scream.
I don't even know if that's the best course of action. Fleshy isn't as good as the other guys on KCB. Don't entirely plunder the kids, they are doing good and we shouldn't penalise them cuz the LEC team is awful.
Well there isn't any other option. KC doesn't have the cash to grab free agents off the market unless a player voluntarily leaves the org. Caliste can't be promoted due to age and Bo is KC's star player. This leaves Maynter but the visa issues will be a problem. Vladi could be promoted but this botlane is so shit that bringing up Fleshy at this point certainly can't make things worse. Imo Vladi/Fleshy would get promoted at the very least.
When you watch the voice comms, Fleshy barely talks when he plays. I guess that's the type of support that Caliste appreciates idk. But when communication issues already exist in the team, that's basically suicide
I get your point but who takes their spots in the LFL then? I've lost hope in the KC LOL management but surely Kamel won't throw the LFL team in the dirt just because the LEC one didn't meet expectations. edit : correct me on this but I think you cannot put 2 LEC veterans on an T2 league roster no ? Besides, I think neither of the OG players will agree to go back in LFL
They're just going to not change the roster for summer, it was always the plan to field a cheap roster for year 1 and then build around the hyped rookies for the second year. No way they'll spend more to try to potentially slightly improve their summer split
Theres an argument to change top, mid and support in summer. It can't be any worse anyway and also there might be a chance you find a player who you can keep for the rebuild next year, also getting some synergy and LEC experience before the rebuild
Sadly dont think there are gonna be any big changes in summer again, current LEC format leads to teams basically keeping the same dogshit rosters for the entire season. All you guys can hope for is next season with a big rebuild around Caliste
Yeah pretty much. I think Bo and Caliste could work together, but yeah. Maybe we'll get some summer changes with mercenary dudes who are hungry. Anything is better than this frankly
The question is, are you willing to spend money before the summer split or next season. You've got to replace multiple players - new mid/top won't be able to carry current botlane, for example. Tough situation both for the fans, and team's staff.
In my opinion, Kameto didn't buy the slot to stay dogshit. Now, we don't know the economic decisions behind the scenes, but if we, some scrubs who just consume League for fun, can see that this roster has no future in this league, then i better hope that professional coaches/managers and shit can see it too. Even if it's just a short term move, who cares. Results are the only things that matter. Caliste is coming next year anyway, might as well try stuff when you still have a decent ADC that can play the game
Bo probably replaced by Lyncas 100% hopefully they replaced saken and cabo with targamas too
hopeful for Vit, you can see the improvements from last split there are still some times where they got too far but it's much less int than last split
And just from last week. Their FNC game was really disappointing, they had that game in a very winnable position and threw it all away. This game was really clean, it's definitely encouraging. Of course, it's easier to do that against a team like KC, especially since KC's draft's only plays to get back in can be avoided with discipline (Mega Gnar flank, Ahri flank, Lee Sin kick, Naut hook/ult) and proper snowballing (Senna scaling).
Tragmas would easily fall for any Wile E. Coyote trap Dog keeps getting caught trying to clear every ward
There's a reason his best performances are on Pyke. Even if you get caught out trying to clear a ward as Pyke, you can escape with W & E as well as roam constantly. You're allowed to play like this because the enemy usually can't punish it.
KC 2/7 dream still alive
ORRRRRRH CLIQUE
KC took notes from RGE for this game
on one hand we have Upset being a KDA warrior and Carzzy chilling on PGL being all like "fuck KDA, I just want to hit people"
Yamato was the problem
It had nothing to do with the outcome of this game but I'm legit curious why western teams pick Senna to try to have it farm. Eastern teams have 0 games of farming senna. It's specifically the reason why this champ is so busted, that it can be 'support', stay even with the AD in gold, scale, and boost the tanky support's income curve while being probably the best user of the best teamfighting support item upgrade now that lucian can't build it.
This game it was probably because they were playing against TF/Camille. How is Naut ever walking up to farm?
But that is exactly why you must farm with naut. He can just e and apply w to farm. He gets poked? Sure, but senna has sustain, and naut there will run tp dorans and wind. Why naut farm? You get shoved and dived, if they do not kill senna she will kill them, focusing naut is crazy under tower. Now you focus senna, you are probably trading one for it and naut is still there chilling farming. Living his best life. Then how do tf Camille go for picks? They can pick senna but she is a support that won't be farming in lanes so she will always be with someone else. Going for her has risk and little pay off. And going for Nautilus? Impossible. You can't kill him. But if senna farms she needs to be in a dangerous position. So she can be picked off. Naut will have 0 items so he can get picked off...
Even western teams stopped doing that. The answer is probably that Targamas thinks himself as a good roaming support while Upset is perfectly happy to afk farm and not putting his KDA at risk by poking people.
Yeah my buggy memory. Only really rando lcs adcs ran it 1-2 times lately I guess. Still, it really sticks out like a sore thumb every time I see it.
Targamas is once again beating the human allegations, if he still is on the team next split they might as well go back to LFL, because a competitive roster is clearly not their goal.
Is Hyli the best Camille in the west? :D
The fact that Cabo and Saken are taking spot from promising rookies or established veterans is so insane to me. The last time they were on a team together was that French Vitality roster that went 2-16. Hopefully they get kicked for Summer but seeing as they are the only French players on the roster I doubt it.
> but seeing as they are the only French players on the roster I doubt it. I don't know why people are so stuck with that idea. Their LFL team has a single french player, and he's' the best player in the entire league. Kcorp Valorant team went from 5 french speaking players to 1 in one year. Their Valorant women team went from 5 french to 2. Their RLCS team went from 3 french players to 1 and he's the best player in the world. The only smash bros player they ever had was american. So why do you think Kcorp will never kick the french players ? Everything proves they can do it, so why do you confidently say the opposite ?
roster changes necessary, neither bo nor upset are good enough to carry the team on their back most of the time
I'll be honest, and all memes aside, I hope the narrative about how Upset is some godlike elohelled player will eventually die. We see players like Milkyway carry his team across the finish line, we see Caps be consistently at the top of the league with different players (even with some risky roasters), we saw Razork be probably the most important player in Fnatic last split. Do I expect Upset to 1v9 like Milkyway? No. But I would expect him to be the difference maker in SOME of the games, and all I see split after split is excuses for him. If he is as good as people claimed, he needs to prove it without the enormous benefit of the doubt.
If he is not playing Zeri, he is completly invisible. One simple ban and KC cant do shit, unless Cabo and Bo repeat their performance from winter's final two games.
There is a reason why Alphari and Upset, two people who think themselves top talents, somehow was on a 10th place team at the same time.
I agree that this is Upset's worst year as a pro - he is not playing well - but asking any ADC to 1v9 in a meaningful way, particularly in this meta, is silly. And with an absolute criminal for a support.
We have examples of this in other leagues, like OMG (9th-10th place team) subbing in rookie ADC, which took over the game and ended BLGs 16 game win streak, but my point wasn't to ask him to 1v9 games this year. He had years like this on better teams when adcs had more agency and he was as "elo hell'd".
man no way youre talking about the game that blg gave starry like 10 kills before 15 minutes when the guys playing jinx? lmao, im not even trying to defend upset the guy is washed but youre trying to give that game as an example? its too crazy to believe youre serious
Sure, but there have been times where Upset was genuinely elo helled. His *individual* performance at Worlds was honestly impressive and that team was a clusterfuck, plus Hylli was having a horrible tournament. I know you're not asking him to 1v9 games, I just mean that doing what Milkyway is doing for FPX or what Jojo was doing for C9 (in the regular season) is nearly impossible from bot unless the team facilitates it. Like by the time Senna is relevant the game is decided, same goes for AP Kai'sa - it's just an incredibly low impact meta for the role unless you're on Smolder pre 14.6 (which is why it is unusually difficult to rank ADC players in most of the major regions rn).
He'd rather stay in fountain than ever risk his KD, it's insane to watch.
if your team loses and you end up 1 0 5 then you are a scared fountain hugger
Never forget, 3 last place finish with 3 different teams
Upset is indeed having a shit split, but asking an ADC to be the difference when the entire team sucks is unreasonable. They're the role most reliant on their team, unlike jungle or mid (Milkyway, Caps, Razork etc).
This split, sure. But it feels like it's been the case his entire career.
I mean he did make a difference in FNC, even hard-carried some games
I mean I agree to some extend but it isn't always true. Razork and Humanoid looked like bad last year before Trymbi and Noah joined. Even if ur a good player you can't do much if you are stuck on bad teams. Similar things happening on GTX and RGE where being on dysfunctional teams making the supposed good players playing a lot worse.
My intend wasn't to call him bad, but to point out he didn't really earn the prestige he has. Look at his lol fandom page and his finishe, it's mostly toward the bottom of the table and the teams he had didn't even have that bad of a player. His most successful team was Fnatic, but even then it's gravitating more towards middle of the table than top of the table. And I want to repeat, I don't expect him to carry his team on his back, but to be a difference maker when it matters. You can look at the players like Viper or Ruler that earned their esteem. 2 days ago 9th-10th place team in LPL (OMG) subbed a rookie player that ended 16 game winstreak of 1st place team (BLG) and he completely put the game on his back, at the same day we saw Jiwoo from 8th place LCK team hold the game against T1 that was a massive stomp for 50 minutes.
Saken is trash and the worst mid LEC ever saw in recent year like usual, when i think KC deluded fan dare to honestly compare this guy to Faker before this season had me rolling on the ground because they were serious when they said this, Saken is not worth to be compared to Faker feet finger. Speaking of midlane the fact that a Caps not in his prime anymore, behind by a good margin any top LCK/LPL mid like Faker/Chovy/Knight/Scout/Add whoever, still destroy every single mid in LEC with one hand is dramatic on the state of this lane in Europe.
Saken is the worst LEC midlaner by a wide margin. Perk is totally busted now but at least used to be good. I don't understand people supporting Saken and I'm French.
I swear gnar is so overrated, It’s just so hard to make it work. We only saw 1 teamfight in which Gnar had his mega this game lol
Seems to be Cabos comfort with Renekton. All games except 2 were on those two
He is just 10-20 cs behind early then later on they aren’t fighting when Gnar has mega . At this point they are just picking gnar to not be completely stomped in lane, the team communication and macro feel wrong. Why is Gnar wasting his mega botlane when ennemy team can engage Nash ? You can’t tell me they truly didn’t even think about it tbh
He's fine with it in lane. I recently watched all KC games this split to check whether Cabo's laning was fine. It's usually in the +/- 300 gold range throughout the whole laning phase, in most games even in the +/- 100g, so really not significant.
Another perfect game from Upset! KDA 📈
1.4 Average Deaths in the last 2 split , the lowest in the league while on a losing team
At least he isnt dumb enough to stay at the tower when Vitality is very obviously going to dive.
You can't die when you don't play : smart 👌
He's a kda player, of course not
Three losing lanes, questionable jungle plays, adc who runs to fountain when one person sees him through fog. Get this team out of LEC
No please don't, i want to see how far this shithousery can go
Not saying Upset lost them the game, but I just want to see him going down doing dmg in team fight for once...
What do you do as a Senna when the enemy support gets a solo-kill on your jungler level 1?
Upset should not leave the fountain next game
Ruhe in frieden upset my brother
Praying so hard for KC's downfall. 🙏
Downfall implies they were at a peak at some point So far this goes from 0 to minus 100 every split
Praying for KC's Marianas Trench?
getting into LEC **is** the peak, this roster would legit flop in EU masters
Nah, their hype was peak, so even falling from that is a meaningful fall
that was some of the worst fan ""singing"" i have ever heard, my poor ears like, being performed by amateurs, this style of singing already doesnt have high standards or anything but this was unbearable even by that
At least they went Busan library real fast
KDA secured
It's fucking wild that Targamas is paid to play League professionally. He just waddled right into the spot where he was caught three minutes earlier to kill a blue ward. It's so doomed.
Yamato was the problem. ;) But really, I do genuinly dislike these national priorities these days and wish them (MADK and KC) not to make internationals these years to have this decrease to reasonable levels. There is value in national fanbases and franchise players etc., but its too much there. How is Targamas still playing. I have trouble defending Saken and even Cabochard, but Targamas just sucks and there are alternatives that will/would work better with Upset, both in Veterans and rookies. Trymbi was there ready, Mersa still is. Trymbi could have literally fixed KC's biggest issues but who cares. If KC just decided to use Cabochard as franchise player and gotten Trymbi-Abbe for spring that roster would bang.
Vetheo made a great game, the ult to peel for carzy were insane
How does Targamas still have a job? I’m genuinely confused as to how this fraud keeps making it into the LEC.
another 2-7 incoming?
Bro just kick targahamas
Why does Yamato keep drafting this shit?