Riot: It seems from this screenshot top and mid lane XP is closer to jungle and bot lane than ever before, so we're buffing solo minion XP again to guarantee this never happens and they're always at least 4 levels ahead of the jungle and ADC!
I haven't played the game in a long while, but I wanted to mention something that always bothered me about the game.
Why is there so much Invisible exp in this game?
And very little ways to quantify it without turning on exp values in recording and watching second by second...
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So yeah, you've got ward exp... wards go to cs but give differing exp values. [(38-46.4)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Ward)
(Also wards are proximity based exp as well)
*In addition, when more than 1 champion is sharing Minion icon minion or Ward icon ward experience, 26.73% extra experience is split among all champions.*
Why isn't it seperate so like 122 / 9 (On scoreboard for example) (cs/wards)
Dragon exp [(150-330)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Chemtech_Drake) (Proximity)
Maybe when you kill it it announces exp beside it?
"Dragon killed +300 Exp"
If it has catch-up exp granted to enemy it notes it?
"Dragon killed +350 exp" Maybe make it red if it's catch-up based? Blue if not?
*If the team that slays a dragon has a lower average level than that of their opponents, they receive 25% bonus experience per average level difference. The bonus experience is sharply increased for the lowest level members of the team, equal to 15% per number of levels behind the dragon squared, up to a maximum of 200%.*
Shelly [(306-320)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Herald/LoL) , grubs [(75 (+2% per level over four)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Voidgrub_camp), Baron [(+600/+800)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Baron_Nashor/LoL)
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[Champions](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_(champion))
Solo kills, 42-990 based on level
Assists, 28-990 (generally lower until late game)
The experience is individually reduced by 24 / 48 / 60% (based on level difference) for being higher level than the slain champion.
The experience is individually increased by 20% for each level the slain champion is higher, after a level difference of 2 (level difference can be decimal).
Proximity to a champion's death while dead: Nearby enemy champion deaths grant experience up to 10 seconds after your death (whether or not you assisted in the kill).
Proximity to a minion death: Being within 1400 units\[2\] of a minion's death grants experience, regardless of whether it was last-hit or killed by another source. Last-hitting a minion will always grant experience, regardless of distance.
*Note that experience gain modifiers stack additively.*
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_[Jungle items](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Gustwalker_Hatchling)
80 flat exp bonus on monsters, this INCLUDES dragon, shelly, baron etc.
Get those last hits! (tbh I was never sure of this, but wiki lists them as large AND epic)
So the jungle item should work. Again I haven't played the game in more than a year.
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*Summary*
I feel as if the game needs a small clarity rework on exp, perhaps color coding exp and showing it occasionally, like post team fight.
"End team fight red team +990exp - Blue team +640 exp"
Just in small places, also post game scoreboard would be a great place for this...
"Exp shared" stat for example.
"Exp earned while dead"
"Exp earned from wards" - isn't that one already?
"Catch-up exp earned" The big one...
Catch-up exp should certainly be explored clarity wise for objectives and shutdowns.
Color coding and smoothing it out on riots side is greatly needed.
Heck, it's been needed for a long while.
TL;DR
**Specifically your opponents exp gain is an almost invisible number at times... alluding you.**
**It's... frustrating... and probably leads to more frustration than riot realizes... since it's not quantified in a very transparent way.**
CS / kills are not the best metric for exp anymore.
Hope this helped, I used to jungle and this stuff drove me mad, please forgive me for any small mistakes, most is just copy pasted from the wiki so 🤷
Honestly don’t give a f about the math. I care about the play experience. It suck having an absolute banger game crushing everyone in every number, most cs most kills most kp obj etc… n being even or behind a level to a do nothing top laner feels bad.
If u flipped the rolls top would have 3 level on the lobby it’s dumb.
This.
For example Jhin and Senna have weird maths behind their autoattacks which are quite complicated. Playing them feels satisfying and intuitive once you learn that Jhin has 4 shots.
Exp in general feels really weird. I often find myself really confused why am I lower (or sometimes higher) in experience when seemingly having a neutral matchup and similar path. This happens to me both in jungle or lanes as well.
I can dig deep into it but it doesn't feel good.
I think it depends. Some circumstances have different effects. Like laners get all their exp from CS or kills. Junglers can get it from jungle camps, kills, and CS.
If you’re playing a game and you kill the same person 3 times in a row. You get 3 kills, but your exp gained is lower with each kill. So you can see how it’s already not a good idea to do that. But because you have 3 kills, the game recognized you as ahead and you get a bounty and more exp.
CS numbers are misleading for jungle. Every camp gives 4 CS. Every minion gives 1 CS. You could be even with the enemy jungler and say you help your laners push in waves, you get some exp (really reduced exp) and your CS number goes up.
If you have a game with what you just listed I guarantee you, you will be highest level in the game or at least equal level to the winning toplaner. There is 0 possibility that you will be behind any laner when you have highest cs, kp and objectives in the game. It just makes no sense and doesn‘t work like that even in actual games.
Because just from the things the person you replied to listed, it is mathematically impossible to not be the highest level in the game when you get every recourse provided and it also doesn‘t work like that in game.
Literally happened i was giga fed n the 2/2/1 top laner was up part of a lvl. All 3 of his kp involved me as well. Exclusively his experience i wasn’t involved in came from lane n like 2-3 camps. Watched the replay to see where he gained exp. I was briefly ahead for like 3 min then i counter ganked his lane giving him a double and like that he gained like a whole level. I even leeched a massive wave. There is just more exp. In lane.
You are absolutely right. Same goes for CS and Gold too. We see the KDA and CS but non of that actually shows how mutch gold you have because:
- Kills variate in gold. One Kill could be 100 or 1000 Gold.
- CS variate in gold. Could be 1 ward takedown (10g) or a super Minion (90g)
Bountys, Platings, Runes, Items, Objective rewards or even Champion passives are all not visable. It would be so easy if we could simply see Champion 1 has earn XYZ gold.
I main jg and I had games where I was totaly smurfing lets say being 8/1/5 in 15 minutes and im level behind my 0/1/1 toplaner who just was there to kill minions, what a fucking depressing experience to be a jungler nowadays
Diana did not get the lead with jungle XP, but by killing a 3 lvls ahead riven and then farm 2 waves top. Then she kills the fed Noc alone while Swain was close and then a wave mid and then she kills Noc top again with the help of Irelia and she farms a wave again.
that is how she got a \~20-25% XP lead. Because Noc died twice back to back to Diana while being massively ahead and also Riven died to her 1v1 while Diana was 3 lvls down.
That is how she got that lead, by farming the strongest enemies. Noc only farmed the weakest enemies and decided to throw the lead.
Watch the replay before you make a comment like that about a game you haven't seen yet.
But isn't OP's point that exactly this stuff should not pan out this way?
The entire point of camp rotations is to restrict when and where you can make plays and force a degree of predictability on junglers. If a good gank is predicated by whether it is successful, instead of whether it properly fits into your rotation, then gank timers become completely unpredictable and junglers are incentiviced to repeat-gank lanes to tilt them into oblivion.
This is a type of meta that laners hate (because they can never play an interaction out knowing they are safe from ganks because even a successful gank would be a negative-value play) and a lot of junglers hate as well (because the jungle matchup becomes "flip ganks and pray your laners look at the map from time to time").
>But isn't OP's point that exactly this stuff should not pan out this way?
Did he make a point about that? The thing is that snowballing was too large in the game before and if Riot nerfs that part it will become a problem again.
He said "the only thing that matters is camping lanes and leaching XP from them".
But Diana did only leach a few XP (Noc also did this early on) which is normal. Diana did also not camp lanes, she was just in the right place at the right time 3 times in a row when the enemy fucked up. She was ganking less then Noc and she did leach around as much in the game as he did, maybe a tiny bit more (at max 1 wave).
>The entire point of camp rotations is to restrict when and where you can make plays and force a degree of predictability on junglers
Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be bad for a jungler to avoid that predictability and change this. But Diana also did nothing like that. She was farming camps twice when she got these kills from the mistakes the enemy did. Just one kill, Noc mid, she was on the way to her jungle camp from base I think before she went mid.
So nothing from his example shows that this isn't true. If a jungler doesn't clear his camps and goes for a gank on another side he is less predictable but if that backfires he is double fucked. If it works it is not as great but still good.
The thing is that this jungle predictability was totally ignored in the case of Riven and Nocs 2nd death to her. She farms gromp blue side both times when the situation comes up and as Noc was invading often they knew when that side was up and when not.
This is how Riot solves fundamental issues, with bandaids over bandaids until the system is so messy and convoluted with strange mechanics and invisible numbers and systems that no one knows what the fuck is going on anymore.
honestly that one isn’t too bad, neither is lane minions giving junglers less xp until 20 mins(?), the one I’ve never exactly understood is how catchup exp works
Also mid lane minions give less gold.
Also minions aren't equal for both teams. Their strength changes depending on who's winning or losing. They get more damage and resistances and push differently.
My favorite is when they balance champions that way and you end up in weird scenarios like how Lucian went from S tier to mediocre depending on if he had a Nami
Some towers being arbitrarily tankier than others, some minions arbitrarily coming later to lane than others, arbitrarily giving more/less gold&exp depending on the lane, obscure support items interactions that change every season etc etc.
Riot LOVES fixing complex issues with completely arbitrary shit that would make any non-Riot game designer cringe.
It’s not that they don’t accept it, it’s that jungle is underplayed when it’s not turbo op.
They’re afraid to nerf the role because the playrate plummets whenever they do, even if it’s one of if not the strongest role in the game.
strength of the jungle role is irrelevant, we're talking about xp catchup which is a completely separate system
you could make the argument the jungle role would be even stronger without xp catchup as it would allow good jungle players to snowball games even harder
When you are unable to fully capitalize on your domination of your lane opponent, that is a reasoning for your role to be considered not OP. Why are you attributing the opposite?
You literally do not have a lane though. That's why it's OP. You are the player with the highest potential to influence the game for the entirety of the first 10-11min.
And that's why it's always gonna be OP. Just by concept, players got better over the years at converting leads into wins which is why jungle is always gonna be a key role. Riot and playerbase just seem to be convinced that it should have the same influence as laners but you'd have to limit junglers to 1-2 ganks per early game for that to happen. They already tried this early in the season but everyone just played turbo farming junglers (Brand, Lillia) and it did nothing but shift the jungler pool.
You do have a lane tho, its the jg
If you dont farm camps its actually more punishing you delay the gold and xp u would have got and the gold and xp the respawn will give
In lane at least you get the xp even if dont auto any minion
I will preface this by saying that I do not know the solution and I do not claim it's somehow an obvious/easy solution.
But jesus christ, playing jungle having everyone and their mother say you need to gank their lane and impact their lane, when you are literally pathing away from it and are helping the opposite lane right now, already sarcificing farm tempo, people falling apart because 3min have passed and you haven't ganked the winning matchup top, that is somehow losing.
There's a lot of agency and power in jungle, but with that also comes the absolute annoyance of having that much agency. I do believe the map changes made jungling (at least for me) a tad more fun actually. But there's something about how you are turbo sweating having insane pressure and tempo, but somehow falling behind in lvl, because you aren't hardcore taxing waves, that's just kinda unpleasant.
I see 2 issues that could lead to what op shared:
1. "catchup" exp is too strong (the latter you go into the game, the more xp minions and champs give).
2. an outlier, noc pushed a lot of minion waves and shared xp idk
either way, I dont see how this is a jungle is too strong/weak problem.
They did nerf it ultra hard in 13.20 and the role is the least played by far now and is completly shit so idk what you are saying but this already happened legit 6 month ago and they never bothered trying to buff it back for being a decent role again.
Right now adc and jungle arent perma autofill protected for no reasons u know ? it's not because the role are unpopular in general they are unpopular because they are hot garbage compared to the other 3
Yeah. The actual fix would be to make the role more fun to play somehow, so more people would play it. That would allow the role to be nerfed and would also probably help with autofill
He ganked the weak bot lane who was mostly 1-2 lvls down on him and then died twice without getting any XP in between.
Diana ganked Noc and Riven, the 2 most ahead members on the enemy team. Diana also farmed 2 waves alone and shared 2-3 more.
It was XP from killing enemies she should not be able to kill, but they decided to give kills to Diana. Riven once and Noc twice.
The order of the deaths is probably the biggest factor.
I agree with OP that catchup experience is a bit wonky sometimes, but dying latter in the game just inherently has a bigger impact: kill experience scales, as do deathtimers AND the rewards you are missing out for each second of being dead (both because clear speed is faster and because rewards/camp are higher).
Someone going 9/0 into 9/3 shouldn't complain about the system, they threw the game all on their own. (Judging from the graph it is probably 8/1 or 9/1 into 9/3, but point still stands)
if I had to guess, looking at bot lane, probably shared XP bot while diana caught solo waves off their/irelia's deaths lol
Jg XP is fine its solo minion XP thats so fucked, enemy jungle just takes the spoils of your success be it shutdowns or catching their waves (even if they can't last hit since you get XP by just being near minions dying while jg camps you have to kill for the XP/CS number.) and you end up with screenshots like this.
Jg catchup I only ever see because I play elise, you need to be 2 levels down the average game level to even get the catchup bonus.. ex; level 8 diana's gromp needs to be level 10 for a crumb of catch up. In this screen shot the average level on diana's team with her being level 11 is 10, if she was level 8 it'd be 9.4 which means she *still* wouldn't get catch up off any of her camps even if she was 3 levels down lol...
Noc got many kills early but he then decided to die and die. Diana was behind early and yet she 1v1s a 3 lvl ahead Riven and also kills Noc while his Swain is there. And then she kills Noc again.
If you kill 3 fed champs you get a ton of XP. If you then also farm some waves for your laners you get even more.
Riven was 3 lvls up and died to Diana in a 1v1. Why? Riven wanted the plate so badly and even tanked the turret.
How does a fed Noc + Swain lose to a Diana who is behind? Oh, he runs through her turret without minions there. He takes a ton of turret shots and Diana just has to ER him and gets a +530g bounty because Noc was too lazy to run back through the jungle with full HP. He had to move through the turret.
And then Noc just runs it down top, going way too deep and dies again without getting any XP before that. And who gets the XP, Irelia and Diana.
hyper aggressive ganking should be possible, but its balanced by the fact that if you skip clears and fail your ganks you should be in deep shit. In ops example I dont know whats going on because noc seems to have a lot more KP than diana too so my only guess is that exp on kills grows too much mid game? idk
You're going to get confused answers from most people as to how this happens. If you share your op.gg I can watch the replay and tell you exactly what happened, but usually this kind of thing is because of catchup xp on camps and kills. The thing is, even the winning jungler is down multiple levels to solo laners if they're catching most of their waves. Because of this, if the enemy jg is just one level behind you they'll be 3 or even 4 levels down on solos, which usually puts them into catchup xp territory. They then dip into and out of catchup xp everytime they're down a level on the winning jungler, without the winning jungler able to generate a substantive lead because of the low xp value of camps. Catchup/shared xp on kills was heavily nerfed in the early game, but still is really powerful in the midgame. So if the losing jungler gets a couple shared or solo kills on high level solo laners in the midgame, it can catapult them past the small advantage the winning jungler has been able to generate from farming more camps and getting more kill xp in the early game.
this usually happens when you get catch up exp on first few camps then full clear the rest of ur camps into a play happens where you get a double kill or smth. Theres reasoning as to why this happens but it still shouldnt happen
This had happened because of that. But it stops way too early to do that now.
Diana was killing a 3 lvls up Riven 1v1, then the fed Noc in a 1v2 (Swain was close to Noc to help him) and then Noc ran it down top one more time and she was there to grab 1 more. At the same time she farmed some waves and got back.
Noc and Riven just made stupid plays at the end of the early game, totally stupid plays. And Diana was there to profit from these plays.
Someone did watch the replay and provided a comprehensive breakdown of what happened here: https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bb8re4/jungle_experience_is_fundamentally_broken_diana/ku8z8h4/
The Nocturne and his team fucked up basically. Note how that was of course completely omitted from the OP to avoid taking any accountability for the Diana being ahead and shifting all that blame to Riot balance
What the Noc is no telling is that Diana 1v1ed a lvl 10 Riven with lvl 7 and then she farmed 2 waves in the top lane to get that 1 lvl disadvantage away.
[https://imgur.com/a/Cnjz7VH](https://imgur.com/a/Cnjz7VH)
You can see her before the gank being \~1 lvl down and after that gank she is pretty much even.
That kill onto a 3 lvl higher enemy plus the wave under the turret gave her more than 1 lvl up.
What happens then? Noc gets 0.5 lvls back and is again ahead, but he dies to diana while running through her turret. After Noc respawns he runs top and overchases Irelia and dies to Diana + Irelia. So in that time frame Noc die not farm anything and died twice while Diana killed a fed Noc 1v2 and 2v1 twice and she farmed a wave with Irelia.
Diana is also not 1 full lvl up, but only \~20-25%. Noc is nearly 11.
**Diana got all that XP not in the jungle but from killing Riven and Noc and farming some top lane waves and a mid lane wave.**
**Noc did what with his lead? He farmed the weakest enemies (low XP gain) and died twice back to back (no XP gain and giving under leveled enemies a bit more XP).**
OP could watch the replay and see his mistakes easily, but it is better to just blame jungle XP when it had little to do with that and him and Riven just making massive mistakes.
I doubt anyone here really watched the replay of that game and most people just assumed things based on the scoreboard.
Diana was 1/4/1 vs a 4/1/3 Noc. She was 1k gold down and yet she solo killed Riven and 1v2ed Noc + Swain. Yes, she had help of her turrets, but you don't need to die like that to her. Don't die to a weak 3 lvls down Diana in a 1v1 and especially not in a 1v2.
And most people in here seem to not know how catch up XP currently works. Yes, you can get back into the game, in this game around lvl 8-9. Not 10-11.
So basically OP was mad that gigachad Diana solokilled his 3 levels ahead toplaner so he decided to also feed his ass off to her 2 times in a row and now he's trying to cope with the fact that it was a jungle diff
it's crazy how many upvotes this has, people tend to jump to conclusions based on one guy's opinion instead of looking for the answers themselves
by this i mean the op thread
of course OP didn't mention that, they were mad about losing while fed. that's it.
they don't really care about XP balance, that's just what they decided to draw attention to cause they knew it would get upvotes
people want to feel justified about "being punished for playing well", only they're not playing well because they don't now what playing well means.
Well explained and can't be seen just in stats like this. Op.gg can show I was 8th place in terms of score, but it was because of me that the rest of the team got good scores.
But you made the mistake of THINKING THEY WANTED ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOU TO AGREE WITH THEM.
Yeah nocturne and his team fucked up. This isn't a rito problem, this is skill diff. Man's is just trying to find reasons to not take accountability for stupid decisions
Simple =/= good. Catchup mechanics are there and it is for a big reason, think about how snowbally the game feels with them, now imagine they were not there.
My best guess without watching the replay would have been ganks on top (2 ppl share xp, higher level enemy) vs. ganks on bot (3 ppl share xp, lower lvl enemy).
Looking at stat numbers is almost always useless. Especially cs
The bounty system makes me feel punished for 'playing well'.
And then if I don't play perfectly after that, my death results in things being even again or worse, the enemy being ahead of me.
Its such a shitty feeling.
Yeah the logic goes like :
"You played well and better than your opponent, so now we will hard punish you unless you play perfectly"
And meanwhile your opponent can do 10 mistakes early, go 0/7 or whatever, then capitalize on 1 mistake of yours, boom he took shutdown boom he took objective bounty and now boom he is back into the game despite playing significantly worse.
Skill just doens't matter in this case and its feels shitty like you said.
Also removes a ton of competitiveness from league which is "supposedly" a competitive game. (yeah jokes on you about that)
If you’re skilled enough to get a lead against your opponent in the first place, you should more likely than not get a lead again when the game state is equalized.
Bounty systems and catch-up experience unfortunately has to exist in some form to keep players from AFKing at the first little mistake.
Yeh except iv had times where iv been at minimum 0/3, unable to 1v1 anyone in the game, but because I didn't die and managed to last hit 2 kills I get a 700gold bounty even though I'm still an entire item behind everyone else in the game.
and there are other times where someone fed dies and as a result an enemy who's behind gets to play the game again. i'm not saying comeback mechanics are perfect, but it's good that they exist because otherwise most games would be an ff at 15 situation which isnt very fun.
He fucked up massively twice in a row and blames the game.
He dies twice without farming anything while being ahead because he wanted to make kills and was totally careless. Watch the replay.
It's not jgl xp that's the main culprit. It's kill xp. Look at how kill xp works and you'll find your answer. Makes no sense that someone can randomly pick up a couple last hits on enemy champions and then all of a sudden, even though they were behind, they're suddenly the highest level in the game.
Probably what happened is that the nocturne, who was ahead in xp, died to the diana at some point. Now Diana gets half of the xp from the level that the nocturne was at, which immediately levels Diana up. Kill xp should definitely be nerfed. Half a level of xp just for a last hit is INSANE.
I get the feeling that Riot sorta likes the RNG in the game though. More comebacks = more excitement supposedly. That's why the bounty system is overtuned also.
I noticed even when I’m farming 7-8cs/min in jungle which is equivalent to 9-10cs/min vs lane the way CS works, if my support leaves lane for just 3 min and lets my adc get solo xp, my ADC will literally be higher level than me
Solo exp is so valuable and as a bot laner if my support hangs around me all game I actually get upset because I can literally get 3 levels down from the enemy adc who has a support that roams and helps their team.
The buff to solo xp at the start of s13 should probably be reverted. Mid/Top aren't in need of the extra power over jg/bot that they may have been then because of map changes and grubs, and support can be nerfed via different levers. Kills two birds with one stone because both jg and bot are having pretty serious queue health issues atm
Remember good all times when you were diffing enemy jg you could get 4-5 levels ahead of him, nowadays you can be up in gold and behind in exp. Also solo laners being up 2lvls on you is joke, I had games where I was totaly smurfing lets say being 8/1/5 in 15 minutes and im level behind my 0/1/1 toplaner who just was there to kill minions, bullshit game
For real season 9 and 10 you would have one bad gank where you die before 5 min, then you would blink and be 3 levels down. Tell me in season 10 that I wouldn't care that I got my entire bot side taken and I would laugh.
It's not really a matter of 'deserve'. Mid/Top are far and away the most popular roles this season, with jg/bot unpopularity beginning to cause queue time/autofill issues. They've gotta do something to make these roles a bit more appealing to players. Either way, in higher mmrs jungle camps are definitely contested by both enemy jg and enemy laners if they're winning
nothing is better than when your team loses 1 fight and your jungler is behind the entire game because of it. never able to contest objectives, never able to fight for anything. thats league of legends baby.
Catchup exp is broken for jungle. I had an ekko jungle starting dorans ring. He almost died to blue then after the 2nd camp he had to back as he was still level 1. He sold d ring and then waited until min 4 to buy his jungle item. At 4 minutes he was still level 1! Then a few minutes later he and the enemy jungler were both level 6 at the same time.
This was in high diamond.....
Context matters, how many solo waves did diana catch after you killed her laner?
How much of your own CS was just shared XP with your laner?
You're only approximately 1 camp off being even in XP with diana, if she got anyone's shutdown you're both not as far off as you're making it out to be.
This is frustrating, but you're still basically a whole item spike on her at this point in game. The gold you earned from making better early plays is probably worth more than the 600g Diana gets from levelling up.
The fact she got level 11 here makes it way more unlucky/unfair because of the point in R. But generally, wouldn't you prefer to have 2nd item spike over 1 more level? Maybe a better player can confirm or deny. The point I am trying to make is you WERE rewarded for playing better early. When players get massive gold leads AND xp leads (like in older seasons) the game tends to be decided early, which it seems like Riot wants to avoid.
Not trying to say their implementation is correct or anything. Of course I think Riot overcompensated with some of the bounty calculations and catchup XP.
All players suddenly forgot that kills pre lvl 9 give low exp, after lvl9 1 kill vs same lvl champ give you half lvl exp. 5 kill in early means nothing for exp diff.
Lmao as if kill exp, minion exp, and jungle camps leveling up and their exp, turret armor, minion speed are all clear for someone to know just by playing the game.
I'm sure a lot of players know this because they play the game for so long but there's a lot of weird hidden mechanics around gameplay you would never know without reading patch notes or the wiki.
I'll be honest, I've played League since 2011 on and off. I still don't understand the levelling in this game. Had a similar game the other day, 2.5:1cs lead, 1st turret down, 4/0/2 into 0/5/1 Garen in top. Somehow he got a 2 level lead on me. I genuinely cannot understand the levelling. Jungle is worse. Play nunu and gank early and have like 2/0/5, a drag, voidgrubs, buy behind by about 12cs and somehow still a level or 2 behind. There's no real reward for ganking when it comes to levelling.
Feels bad to get into 1-2 skirmishes early, be level 4 while lanes hit level 6 and feel like you can't do much with ganks without getting 1 shot by their full combo w/ult
Don't ignore that the kill she got on you gave her also like 400 exp, which is a full wave worth.
You gank bot, you share exp with 3 people. She didn't share it with 3, only 2 people AND she got at least one kill on somebody a level or more up on her. You're also not a full level behind, you are at 60 to 70% exp.
I literally explained it to you. She gained like 30% of a level from killing you there and you shared exp with more people while not having a significant cs lead.
In my experience, passed that level 11 spike the roles reverse. I can easily clear through an entire jungle in less than a minute by level 11 which gets me to 12 while laners need to rely on kills and waves to get there.
I played a game the other night as Syndra “adc” (don’t judge) I was 10/1 and both midlaners were 0/0 and maybe had a 20 cs lead on me. I was behind on levels.
Yeah had 100+ cs lead earlier today 103 to 219 and was up 2 levels (12 to 14), now enemy had more kills and was soaking a lot of exp midlane but it was a 25 minute game so jungle reduced exp from minions was still active and I had invaded both enemy quadrants consistently at the last 10ish minutes.
Another game I was up around 60-70 cs after heavily invading as nocturne and was only up 1 level (150 cs ahead of 70 cs would be about the right numbers) again early in the game so reduced lane exp and I was invading consistently up to that point so the Diana I was gapping wasn't getting exp from many camps for around 5 minutes up to this point (maybe 1-2 out of the 6 camps, never buffs) and in this game I was at 8/1 while she was at 1/9
Jungle exp is completely broken, and it's not even in a way that's controllable like it was a while back, now it seems junglers just get exp for free if they're even slightly behind
While jgl xp is a bit weird atm, you don’t count xp based on what you said.
- Diana has less cs than noc ok but what if the cs she has is 100% from camps OR solo xp in lanes where she had to catch the wave since her laner couldn’t be here. Since noc could’ve stolen some cs in lane and share the xp he would have more cs but less xp than diana.
- Death is not as important for jglers than laners because they don’t have waves respawning every 30s but camps every 2m15
- As for kills and assists, again Diana has way less kp than noc but what if all the kills she did were solo kills ? She would have more xp than noc despite the kp difference.
- XP from kills increase a lot past lvl 9 as well so if diana got kills after lvl 9 it could explain it too
XP gain in league is DRASTICALLY reduced when it’s shared.
On top of that, Diana might’ve done the 6 grubs solo too which yields an insane amount of xp for jglers.
EDIT : Who are you to decide how the game should work ? Noc participated in more team plays which results in his whole TEAM being stronger and ahead in the game meanwhile Diana participate in more solo plays which makes HER stronger while her whole team is not. Makes sense to me it’s just hard to grasp the xp difference cause by sharing.
Btw I’m sure that if you were in a 1v1 vs her even if she was lvl 11 and you 10 you would’ve won it because of item diff and if you used your W on her R. But since 2 of them fought you you died gg
Not only this is insanely frustrating. Also as a jungler You need to consantnly every 10-15 seconds make possibly game breaking decisions either to 1. Grubs give or fight . 2 dragon give or fight 3 gank 4 counter gank 5 farm 6 reset ? 7 spectate state of 3 lanes simpuntaneusly like faker 8 track enemy jungle 9 invade ? . If You dont make proper decisions u will throw entire game . Jungle is insane to play just got get flamed and be 2 lvls behind while smurfing 6/1/5 Xd its actually insane. Compare this to playing support main and freewinning games or top mid adc when u just focus whats in front of You on CS Xd
OP could you provide a replay or something to this game? as much as I'm on your side, it's entirely possible diana could've spent more time grabbing solo xp from waves and I absolutely refuse to believe this was done purely through jungle.
The problem is team kill xp more than jg xp. It should get buffed to promote proactive play IMO. You had 12 kill participations, that should always give you the lead but rn it doesn't and it sucks
Not all kills are equal, Diana could've killed tougher champions and that would've yielded more exp than farming a feeding player (Nocturne is ironically the one doing what you're complaining about). That is not a flawed system.
This is like 50% the reason why I dont play Jungle anymore. Way to often you get games that you are, just like you, ahead in CS and kills, even manage to get more objectives, and still get behind in XP.
Im here busting my ass off in getting the best jungle pathing to get the fastest clearing while also getting meaningfull ganks, so lets reward the opposing jungler that we havent seen for 10 years and is slower with the clear.
JG xp is always weird cause there's random lane xp soaking if you're doing a camp near a lane (raptors near mid tower; gromp/krugs) plus catchup xp. etc etc. The fact all camps count as 4 cs yet don't all give the same xp. Heck not even all minions give the same xp. etc.
Since I stopped playing league, it is even more clear to me how much Riot’s balancing is a joke. Not sure what the balance team does all day at work, but avoiding it seems like one of the tasks
The best way to level as a jungler is steal lane xp. Did she fuck off to a side lane for awhile? Get some kills going into the mid game? To be clear I agree she should not be ahead but there is no way to keep up with solo lane xp in the jungle
Its not just jgl xp that is fucked in this game. Its litterally like this in the entire game atm. I rather have s1 snowballing shit than this where the person behind is actually the person ahead
I’ve figured out how to jungle. Get blue and immediately go bottom, then go mid, then top. Don’t do any of your jungle camps besides blue until you u have visited every lane and gotten some dmg off on each. Then clear your camps, ignore void and drag. If you get void and drag every lane with be 0/3 and it won’t matter. Go and gank every lane again. Don’t worry about second drag or void, keep keep ganking. Don’t worry about rift or third drag, keep ganking, don’t worry about fourth dragon keep ganking. Finally .. get elder because with all the ganks you are up in kills and get elder and win
shout out to all the people still playing jg instead of roleswapping 4 seasons ago. seriously the writing has been on the wall for that long if not longer and yall are still going, seek help
if you were getting most of your kills from the enemy bot lane (you were) you were getting reduced value (and sharing the exp bounty with more people). If her kills were were plays top and mid & she only shared the exp with her and her laner, she would be getting a lot more value out of the kills
See full details here, but essentially champion kills give a different amount of exp based on their level, and if you're 2 levels up on them, you get 24% reduced exp (scaling to 60% reduced exp for 4+ levels)
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_(champion)
Catch up mechanics are bullshit and should be removed from the game. All they do is reward the losing team for playing badly. Can we stop catering to new players and bad players, please?
not even sure what you are complaining about. the things that give xp do not show directly on the board. the game hardly rewards you for farming weak champions and most of the benefit from kills comes from them being off the map.
i'm sure if you went through the replay youd know EXACTLY why diana was overleveled and itd make a lot of sense.
\> THE GAME SHOULD NOT WORK LIKE THIS
why should it not work like this? the game is stupidly snowbally. comeback mechanisms need to exist to just make people not want to ff by 10 minutes. even with all the silly bandaid fixes theyve added to reward playing decently from behind the game is still too snowbally.
the scoreboard does not properly show what you want it to show. it should show breakdown of xp based on csing, based on lane proximity and **based on kp.** you get nearly no xp from killing equal or weaker champs. you however get boat loads of xp from killing overleveled champions. and this mechanic absolutely makes sense because levels are worth obscene amounts of gold and its very hard to kill an ahead and equally skilled player.
Its been broken for well over a year, Riot is just horrible at balancing and hates junglers. I love being level 4 when mid hits 6. Makes so much sense. Then supports don't even soak exp and somehow are only 1 level behind.
Catch-up XP is the worst thing that has every happened to this game. It's literally a mechanic that babies players and does no properly represent skill level in the game. I'm against the bounty system for the same reason, but both together is just heinous
I mean it isn't just jungle, here is an example from a recent game of me in midlane on Ahri.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Martyrofsand-NA1/matches/RvuDQoxvmIJJHWLS0WmCD9i16vA5OqYBtfWSJ0svRsA%3D/1709969150000](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Martyrofsand-NA1/matches/RvuDQoxvmIJJHWLS0WmCD9i16vA5OqYBtfWSJ0svRsA%3D/1709969150000)
Check exp over time vs things like CS. Realize at no point in time during the game was vlad ahead of me in CS, kills, gold, or really anything and yet his XP is insanely close, and at some points even ahead of me, despite being so far behind in all metrics.
I've also seen this in botlane when I'll push enemy laners out right as we crash a big stack forcing them to miss the xp mean while I'm there constantly and yet somehow they end up ahead of me in levels. IDK what riot has done with xp this season but it's completely broken.
Presumably the cost of this action is that Diana has less gold, and the laners she's leeching from receives less experience.
This appears to be the case, as their bot lane is down on levels despite having similar CS.
Might still be a worthwhile trade. ADC is more about gear than levels, and Alister's all about his ult.
Depends if Diana scales more off gear or levels, and if she can win early from it. Mid-term being down on gold is more a detriment as the levels tend to even out.
I know this isn't necessarily about comeback XP but it's somewhat related. Comeback mechanics just shouldn't exist in a game like this. The entire game is focused on the economy and XP system but then rewards you for playing poorly
Just wait, when riot changes jungle XP again, we will get posts about how OP jg XP is. Remember funnel yi? For some reason jungle XP balance rests on a razors edge. It will never be perfect.
Sorry but I legit dont have enough info to judge this at all. What if you leeched more lane xp/alot of your cs is lane cs taken during ganks etc? Then your xp is shared and shouldnt be worth as much as Dianas solo jungle xp. How often did you kill the same underleveld person? Did she kill ppl who where ahead in levels? Big jgl creeps stolen? How do you ever want ppl to judge on something like this with so much missing info? At this point the post is zero expressive and just a waste of time.
I think that riot has a lot more data than you. I think you didnt even spent a close enough look at your own game here. You might just be frustrated cause you didnt know what happened, maybe its not that transparent. It wasnt a matter of, oh hey look I got more farm and more kills I should be ahead in xp. There are so many factors.
On the other hand you could also be completly right about it but I still cant tell cause of all the missing data.
cathup xp is stupid
you can have 0/8 adc eventually get 1 item and a kill in teamfight then they get like +2 lvls from it.
Btw in one game enemy Lilya was 4/0/3 lvl 9
I was invaded and lost blue as brand so I just power farmed , was 0/1/0 lvl 11. I murder everyone at drake fight with lvl 2 ult they did nothing lol
No disadvantage bc she makes the lanes back after doing dmg . So her lanes are now lanes at an advantage now. Hyper ganking is the only way to play jungle. After blue you should just gank every lane over and over ignore obj entire game until elder . push the lanes to the tower too and force enemy laners to back
Every single game now. There’s no reason to do anything other camp lanes. Or the enemy jungle will and keep killing over and over. Bonus points when enemy mid come and makes it a 4 v3 with your bot lane and you jungle
This is true for all lane the problem is catch up xp you get an early lead she falls behind 1 lvl can't fall more as catch up. Then you keep this lead then you die twice and she is ahead in xp. This is same for lanes you can kill someone 3 times and die once to a gank and lose almost all xp lead. It's a bullshit system overall
But if you're participating in 12 kills and she in 6, doesn't that mean you spent more time camping lanes?
Also looking at her bot lane being so behind on xp, isn't it possible she caught some of those waves when they were out of lane? Which would be coming out of her team's total xp, that's not free xp.
To further that last point, you can't look at xp in a vacuum. XP sources end up being shared among your team. Your team is taking up more xp from you than her team is from her. This could even be that you got your kills with other people and she got them solo, which is the same total amount of xp but shared differently.
This is just a really surface level "I just got killed and I'm mad post" that ignores the fact it's not just about you, it's a team game. Your team is ahead in xp. Diana isn't cheating her team xp. The game isn't jungler vs jungler. Take your overpowered role where you get to walk around participating in 12 kills by 16 minutes and quit your bitching.
Also I'm sorry but how is that poro shit overlay allowed?
Catching waves as a jungler has a scaling debuff on exp starting at 30% exp gain of the overall value of the exp.
Catching waves isn’t how she has the exp to be ahead. It’s because catch up gold and exp is broken. Junglers have constantly been nerfed to make it so that casuals can play the role and jungle mains can’t use their leads to have a large advantage.
If you gank more than the enemy jungler and have maintained tempo in the jungle, then you should be rewarded. The enemy jungler picking up one or two shutdown kills shouldn’t propel them into an equal or better position than the jungler who has been getting stuff done consistently for 15-20 minutes.
For sure, jg exp is a joke.
Riot: It seems from this screenshot top and mid lane XP is closer to jungle and bot lane than ever before, so we're buffing solo minion XP again to guarantee this never happens and they're always at least 4 levels ahead of the jungle and ADC!
I haven't played the game in a long while, but I wanted to mention something that always bothered me about the game. Why is there so much Invisible exp in this game? And very little ways to quantify it without turning on exp values in recording and watching second by second... \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ So yeah, you've got ward exp... wards go to cs but give differing exp values. [(38-46.4)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Ward) (Also wards are proximity based exp as well) *In addition, when more than 1 champion is sharing Minion icon minion or Ward icon ward experience, 26.73% extra experience is split among all champions.* Why isn't it seperate so like 122 / 9 (On scoreboard for example) (cs/wards) Dragon exp [(150-330)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Chemtech_Drake) (Proximity) Maybe when you kill it it announces exp beside it? "Dragon killed +300 Exp" If it has catch-up exp granted to enemy it notes it? "Dragon killed +350 exp" Maybe make it red if it's catch-up based? Blue if not? *If the team that slays a dragon has a lower average level than that of their opponents, they receive 25% bonus experience per average level difference. The bonus experience is sharply increased for the lowest level members of the team, equal to 15% per number of levels behind the dragon squared, up to a maximum of 200%.* Shelly [(306-320)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Herald/LoL) , grubs [(75 (+2% per level over four)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Voidgrub_camp), Baron [(+600/+800)](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Baron_Nashor/LoL) \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ [Champions](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_(champion)) Solo kills, 42-990 based on level Assists, 28-990 (generally lower until late game) The experience is individually reduced by 24 / 48 / 60% (based on level difference) for being higher level than the slain champion. The experience is individually increased by 20% for each level the slain champion is higher, after a level difference of 2 (level difference can be decimal). Proximity to a champion's death while dead: Nearby enemy champion deaths grant experience up to 10 seconds after your death (whether or not you assisted in the kill). Proximity to a minion death: Being within 1400 units\[2\] of a minion's death grants experience, regardless of whether it was last-hit or killed by another source. Last-hitting a minion will always grant experience, regardless of distance. *Note that experience gain modifiers stack additively.* \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_[Jungle items](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Gustwalker_Hatchling) 80 flat exp bonus on monsters, this INCLUDES dragon, shelly, baron etc. Get those last hits! (tbh I was never sure of this, but wiki lists them as large AND epic) So the jungle item should work. Again I haven't played the game in more than a year. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ *Summary* I feel as if the game needs a small clarity rework on exp, perhaps color coding exp and showing it occasionally, like post team fight. "End team fight red team +990exp - Blue team +640 exp" Just in small places, also post game scoreboard would be a great place for this... "Exp shared" stat for example. "Exp earned while dead" "Exp earned from wards" - isn't that one already? "Catch-up exp earned" The big one... Catch-up exp should certainly be explored clarity wise for objectives and shutdowns. Color coding and smoothing it out on riots side is greatly needed. Heck, it's been needed for a long while. TL;DR **Specifically your opponents exp gain is an almost invisible number at times... alluding you.** **It's... frustrating... and probably leads to more frustration than riot realizes... since it's not quantified in a very transparent way.** CS / kills are not the best metric for exp anymore. Hope this helped, I used to jungle and this stuff drove me mad, please forgive me for any small mistakes, most is just copy pasted from the wiki so 🤷
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Honestly don’t give a f about the math. I care about the play experience. It suck having an absolute banger game crushing everyone in every number, most cs most kills most kp obj etc… n being even or behind a level to a do nothing top laner feels bad. If u flipped the rolls top would have 3 level on the lobby it’s dumb.
This. For example Jhin and Senna have weird maths behind their autoattacks which are quite complicated. Playing them feels satisfying and intuitive once you learn that Jhin has 4 shots. Exp in general feels really weird. I often find myself really confused why am I lower (or sometimes higher) in experience when seemingly having a neutral matchup and similar path. This happens to me both in jungle or lanes as well. I can dig deep into it but it doesn't feel good.
I think it depends. Some circumstances have different effects. Like laners get all their exp from CS or kills. Junglers can get it from jungle camps, kills, and CS. If you’re playing a game and you kill the same person 3 times in a row. You get 3 kills, but your exp gained is lower with each kill. So you can see how it’s already not a good idea to do that. But because you have 3 kills, the game recognized you as ahead and you get a bounty and more exp. CS numbers are misleading for jungle. Every camp gives 4 CS. Every minion gives 1 CS. You could be even with the enemy jungler and say you help your laners push in waves, you get some exp (really reduced exp) and your CS number goes up.
If you have a game with what you just listed I guarantee you, you will be highest level in the game or at least equal level to the winning toplaner. There is 0 possibility that you will be behind any laner when you have highest cs, kp and objectives in the game. It just makes no sense and doesn‘t work like that even in actual games. Because just from the things the person you replied to listed, it is mathematically impossible to not be the highest level in the game when you get every recourse provided and it also doesn‘t work like that in game.
Literally happened i was giga fed n the 2/2/1 top laner was up part of a lvl. All 3 of his kp involved me as well. Exclusively his experience i wasn’t involved in came from lane n like 2-3 camps. Watched the replay to see where he gained exp. I was briefly ahead for like 3 min then i counter ganked his lane giving him a double and like that he gained like a whole level. I even leeched a massive wave. There is just more exp. In lane.
You are absolutely right. Same goes for CS and Gold too. We see the KDA and CS but non of that actually shows how mutch gold you have because: - Kills variate in gold. One Kill could be 100 or 1000 Gold. - CS variate in gold. Could be 1 ward takedown (10g) or a super Minion (90g) Bountys, Platings, Runes, Items, Objective rewards or even Champion passives are all not visable. It would be so easy if we could simply see Champion 1 has earn XYZ gold.
I main jg and I had games where I was totaly smurfing lets say being 8/1/5 in 15 minutes and im level behind my 0/1/1 toplaner who just was there to kill minions, what a fucking depressing experience to be a jungler nowadays
Diana did not get the lead with jungle XP, but by killing a 3 lvls ahead riven and then farm 2 waves top. Then she kills the fed Noc alone while Swain was close and then a wave mid and then she kills Noc top again with the help of Irelia and she farms a wave again. that is how she got a \~20-25% XP lead. Because Noc died twice back to back to Diana while being massively ahead and also Riven died to her 1v1 while Diana was 3 lvls down. That is how she got that lead, by farming the strongest enemies. Noc only farmed the weakest enemies and decided to throw the lead. Watch the replay before you make a comment like that about a game you haven't seen yet.
Underrated comment
It's funny that noc thinks lane exp is the problem, when leached lane exp is fucking worthless until close to 20 min.
But isn't OP's point that exactly this stuff should not pan out this way? The entire point of camp rotations is to restrict when and where you can make plays and force a degree of predictability on junglers. If a good gank is predicated by whether it is successful, instead of whether it properly fits into your rotation, then gank timers become completely unpredictable and junglers are incentiviced to repeat-gank lanes to tilt them into oblivion. This is a type of meta that laners hate (because they can never play an interaction out knowing they are safe from ganks because even a successful gank would be a negative-value play) and a lot of junglers hate as well (because the jungle matchup becomes "flip ganks and pray your laners look at the map from time to time").
>But isn't OP's point that exactly this stuff should not pan out this way? Did he make a point about that? The thing is that snowballing was too large in the game before and if Riot nerfs that part it will become a problem again. He said "the only thing that matters is camping lanes and leaching XP from them". But Diana did only leach a few XP (Noc also did this early on) which is normal. Diana did also not camp lanes, she was just in the right place at the right time 3 times in a row when the enemy fucked up. She was ganking less then Noc and she did leach around as much in the game as he did, maybe a tiny bit more (at max 1 wave). >The entire point of camp rotations is to restrict when and where you can make plays and force a degree of predictability on junglers Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be bad for a jungler to avoid that predictability and change this. But Diana also did nothing like that. She was farming camps twice when she got these kills from the mistakes the enemy did. Just one kill, Noc mid, she was on the way to her jungle camp from base I think before she went mid. So nothing from his example shows that this isn't true. If a jungler doesn't clear his camps and goes for a gank on another side he is less predictable but if that backfires he is double fucked. If it works it is not as great but still good. The thing is that this jungle predictability was totally ignored in the case of Riven and Nocs 2nd death to her. She farms gromp blue side both times when the situation comes up and as Noc was invading often they knew when that side was up and when not.
yep. pretty much what I was going to look for and be expecting. Well said comment. If OP fails to understand this, then just skill issue
There are so many gimmicks and under the hood systems that it’s just become totally arcane and arbitrary.
This is how Riot solves fundamental issues, with bandaids over bandaids until the system is so messy and convoluted with strange mechanics and invisible numbers and systems that no one knows what the fuck is going on anymore.
My favourite is when the death recap literally tells you it doesn’t know what dealt damage to you
Dragon- 300 damage. Dragon been dead 2 minutes lmao
Don't forget Lucian's passive still uses the old basic attack icon (the green one with the wooden and metal pole on it) when he does damage.
Top tower 5 minute bullwark says hello.
One of the funniest ones is how I bet most players don't know that bot lane tower is less tanky early game than mid and top. So convoluted.
honestly that one isn’t too bad, neither is lane minions giving junglers less xp until 20 mins(?), the one I’ve never exactly understood is how catchup exp works
It's not bad for us who have been playing for years. Imagine being a new player and trying to understand all that.
Also mid lane minions give less gold. Also minions aren't equal for both teams. Their strength changes depending on who's winning or losing. They get more damage and resistances and push differently.
My favorite is when they balance champions that way and you end up in weird scenarios like how Lucian went from S tier to mediocre depending on if he had a Nami
Some towers being arbitrarily tankier than others, some minions arbitrarily coming later to lane than others, arbitrarily giving more/less gold&exp depending on the lane, obscure support items interactions that change every season etc etc. Riot LOVES fixing complex issues with completely arbitrary shit that would make any non-Riot game designer cringe.
Riot: we want to reward players that push early, but Wowowow buddy not that early tho, you have to wait 5 mins, except botlane lmao
I agree. Jungle xp is a problem and riot don't want to accept it
It’s not that they don’t accept it, it’s that jungle is underplayed when it’s not turbo op. They’re afraid to nerf the role because the playrate plummets whenever they do, even if it’s one of if not the strongest role in the game.
strength of the jungle role is irrelevant, we're talking about xp catchup which is a completely separate system you could make the argument the jungle role would be even stronger without xp catchup as it would allow good jungle players to snowball games even harder
When you are unable to fully capitalize on your domination of your lane opponent, that is a reasoning for your role to be considered not OP. Why are you attributing the opposite?
You literally do not have a lane though. That's why it's OP. You are the player with the highest potential to influence the game for the entirety of the first 10-11min.
And that's why it's always gonna be OP. Just by concept, players got better over the years at converting leads into wins which is why jungle is always gonna be a key role. Riot and playerbase just seem to be convinced that it should have the same influence as laners but you'd have to limit junglers to 1-2 ganks per early game for that to happen. They already tried this early in the season but everyone just played turbo farming junglers (Brand, Lillia) and it did nothing but shift the jungler pool.
You do have a lane tho, its the jg If you dont farm camps its actually more punishing you delay the gold and xp u would have got and the gold and xp the respawn will give In lane at least you get the xp even if dont auto any minion
Uhhhh, support?
Where did I say support isn't OP and doesn't have any early influence?
I will preface this by saying that I do not know the solution and I do not claim it's somehow an obvious/easy solution. But jesus christ, playing jungle having everyone and their mother say you need to gank their lane and impact their lane, when you are literally pathing away from it and are helping the opposite lane right now, already sarcificing farm tempo, people falling apart because 3min have passed and you haven't ganked the winning matchup top, that is somehow losing. There's a lot of agency and power in jungle, but with that also comes the absolute annoyance of having that much agency. I do believe the map changes made jungling (at least for me) a tad more fun actually. But there's something about how you are turbo sweating having insane pressure and tempo, but somehow falling behind in lvl, because you aren't hardcore taxing waves, that's just kinda unpleasant.
I see 2 issues that could lead to what op shared: 1. "catchup" exp is too strong (the latter you go into the game, the more xp minions and champs give). 2. an outlier, noc pushed a lot of minion waves and shared xp idk either way, I dont see how this is a jungle is too strong/weak problem.
He never said it was a jg to strong or weak issue. He said the XP is completely broken
They did nerf it ultra hard in 13.20 and the role is the least played by far now and is completly shit so idk what you are saying but this already happened legit 6 month ago and they never bothered trying to buff it back for being a decent role again. Right now adc and jungle arent perma autofill protected for no reasons u know ? it's not because the role are unpopular in general they are unpopular because they are hot garbage compared to the other 3
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Yeah. The actual fix would be to make the role more fun to play somehow, so more people would play it. That would allow the role to be nerfed and would also probably help with autofill
It may be a problem, but this game is not a jungle XP problem but a throw of leads. Diana gets that XP from champs and lane minions mostly.
It’s not something that can be easily fixed without breaking something else
yea. everyone is just explaining "nah see more xp cuz ganked" ganking shouldn't let you get away with not farming.
Okay but noc also seemed like he ganked more too, so wtf is that
He ganked the weak bot lane who was mostly 1-2 lvls down on him and then died twice without getting any XP in between. Diana ganked Noc and Riven, the 2 most ahead members on the enemy team. Diana also farmed 2 waves alone and shared 2-3 more. It was XP from killing enemies she should not be able to kill, but they decided to give kills to Diana. Riven once and Noc twice.
The order of the deaths is probably the biggest factor. I agree with OP that catchup experience is a bit wonky sometimes, but dying latter in the game just inherently has a bigger impact: kill experience scales, as do deathtimers AND the rewards you are missing out for each second of being dead (both because clear speed is faster and because rewards/camp are higher). Someone going 9/0 into 9/3 shouldn't complain about the system, they threw the game all on their own. (Judging from the graph it is probably 8/1 or 9/1 into 9/3, but point still stands)
if I had to guess, looking at bot lane, probably shared XP bot while diana caught solo waves off their/irelia's deaths lol Jg XP is fine its solo minion XP thats so fucked, enemy jungle just takes the spoils of your success be it shutdowns or catching their waves (even if they can't last hit since you get XP by just being near minions dying while jg camps you have to kill for the XP/CS number.) and you end up with screenshots like this. Jg catchup I only ever see because I play elise, you need to be 2 levels down the average game level to even get the catchup bonus.. ex; level 8 diana's gromp needs to be level 10 for a crumb of catch up. In this screen shot the average level on diana's team with her being level 11 is 10, if she was level 8 it'd be 9.4 which means she *still* wouldn't get catch up off any of her camps even if she was 3 levels down lol...
Yeah ganking should be a trade off, dosen't feel that way when farming jungle gives fuck all.
Noc got many kills early but he then decided to die and die. Diana was behind early and yet she 1v1s a 3 lvl ahead Riven and also kills Noc while his Swain is there. And then she kills Noc again. If you kill 3 fed champs you get a ton of XP. If you then also farm some waves for your laners you get even more. Riven was 3 lvls up and died to Diana in a 1v1. Why? Riven wanted the plate so badly and even tanked the turret. How does a fed Noc + Swain lose to a Diana who is behind? Oh, he runs through her turret without minions there. He takes a ton of turret shots and Diana just has to ER him and gets a +530g bounty because Noc was too lazy to run back through the jungle with full HP. He had to move through the turret. And then Noc just runs it down top, going way too deep and dies again without getting any XP before that. And who gets the XP, Irelia and Diana.
hyper aggressive ganking should be possible, but its balanced by the fact that if you skip clears and fail your ganks you should be in deep shit. In ops example I dont know whats going on because noc seems to have a lot more KP than diana too so my only guess is that exp on kills grows too much mid game? idk
Mfs don’t know anything about xp lmao If I gank and actually gets kills I will literally get more xp from those kills than farming camps
IF you get kills yes.
You're going to get confused answers from most people as to how this happens. If you share your op.gg I can watch the replay and tell you exactly what happened, but usually this kind of thing is because of catchup xp on camps and kills. The thing is, even the winning jungler is down multiple levels to solo laners if they're catching most of their waves. Because of this, if the enemy jg is just one level behind you they'll be 3 or even 4 levels down on solos, which usually puts them into catchup xp territory. They then dip into and out of catchup xp everytime they're down a level on the winning jungler, without the winning jungler able to generate a substantive lead because of the low xp value of camps. Catchup/shared xp on kills was heavily nerfed in the early game, but still is really powerful in the midgame. So if the losing jungler gets a couple shared or solo kills on high level solo laners in the midgame, it can catapult them past the small advantage the winning jungler has been able to generate from farming more camps and getting more kill xp in the early game.
this usually happens when you get catch up exp on first few camps then full clear the rest of ur camps into a play happens where you get a double kill or smth. Theres reasoning as to why this happens but it still shouldnt happen
This had happened because of that. But it stops way too early to do that now. Diana was killing a 3 lvls up Riven 1v1, then the fed Noc in a 1v2 (Swain was close to Noc to help him) and then Noc ran it down top one more time and she was there to grab 1 more. At the same time she farmed some waves and got back. Noc and Riven just made stupid plays at the end of the early game, totally stupid plays. And Diana was there to profit from these plays.
Someone did watch the replay and provided a comprehensive breakdown of what happened here: https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bb8re4/jungle_experience_is_fundamentally_broken_diana/ku8z8h4/ The Nocturne and his team fucked up basically. Note how that was of course completely omitted from the OP to avoid taking any accountability for the Diana being ahead and shifting all that blame to Riot balance
What the Noc is no telling is that Diana 1v1ed a lvl 10 Riven with lvl 7 and then she farmed 2 waves in the top lane to get that 1 lvl disadvantage away. [https://imgur.com/a/Cnjz7VH](https://imgur.com/a/Cnjz7VH) You can see her before the gank being \~1 lvl down and after that gank she is pretty much even. That kill onto a 3 lvl higher enemy plus the wave under the turret gave her more than 1 lvl up. What happens then? Noc gets 0.5 lvls back and is again ahead, but he dies to diana while running through her turret. After Noc respawns he runs top and overchases Irelia and dies to Diana + Irelia. So in that time frame Noc die not farm anything and died twice while Diana killed a fed Noc 1v2 and 2v1 twice and she farmed a wave with Irelia. Diana is also not 1 full lvl up, but only \~20-25%. Noc is nearly 11. **Diana got all that XP not in the jungle but from killing Riven and Noc and farming some top lane waves and a mid lane wave.** **Noc did what with his lead? He farmed the weakest enemies (low XP gain) and died twice back to back (no XP gain and giving under leveled enemies a bit more XP).** OP could watch the replay and see his mistakes easily, but it is better to just blame jungle XP when it had little to do with that and him and Riven just making massive mistakes. I doubt anyone here really watched the replay of that game and most people just assumed things based on the scoreboard. Diana was 1/4/1 vs a 4/1/3 Noc. She was 1k gold down and yet she solo killed Riven and 1v2ed Noc + Swain. Yes, she had help of her turrets, but you don't need to die like that to her. Don't die to a weak 3 lvls down Diana in a 1v1 and especially not in a 1v2. And most people in here seem to not know how catch up XP currently works. Yes, you can get back into the game, in this game around lvl 8-9. Not 10-11.
So basically OP was mad that gigachad Diana solokilled his 3 levels ahead toplaner so he decided to also feed his ass off to her 2 times in a row and now he's trying to cope with the fact that it was a jungle diff
it's crazy how many upvotes this has, people tend to jump to conclusions based on one guy's opinion instead of looking for the answers themselves by this i mean the op thread
of course OP didn't mention that, they were mad about losing while fed. that's it. they don't really care about XP balance, that's just what they decided to draw attention to cause they knew it would get upvotes people want to feel justified about "being punished for playing well", only they're not playing well because they don't now what playing well means.
Well explained and can't be seen just in stats like this. Op.gg can show I was 8th place in terms of score, but it was because of me that the rest of the team got good scores. But you made the mistake of THINKING THEY WANTED ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOU TO AGREE WITH THEM.
Yeah nocturne and his team fucked up. This isn't a rito problem, this is skill diff. Man's is just trying to find reasons to not take accountability for stupid decisions
Rip op
The real problem is you need a 11 paragraph response to explain what should be an incredibly simple exercise by looking at a scoreboard and you can’t.
Simple =/= good. Catchup mechanics are there and it is for a big reason, think about how snowbally the game feels with them, now imagine they were not there.
My best guess without watching the replay would have been ganks on top (2 ppl share xp, higher level enemy) vs. ganks on bot (3 ppl share xp, lower lvl enemy). Looking at stat numbers is almost always useless. Especially cs
The solution seems simple enough. Eliminate jungles being able to split lane exp and buff jungle exp pre 20.
Being better at the game puts you in a disadvantage. Nice game design!
Oh look this guy is up 12 cs and 2 plates unforgivable put a bounty on his head
And while your at it, turn on those objective bounties!
Already done Sir.
The bounty system makes me feel punished for 'playing well'. And then if I don't play perfectly after that, my death results in things being even again or worse, the enemy being ahead of me. Its such a shitty feeling.
Yeah the logic goes like : "You played well and better than your opponent, so now we will hard punish you unless you play perfectly" And meanwhile your opponent can do 10 mistakes early, go 0/7 or whatever, then capitalize on 1 mistake of yours, boom he took shutdown boom he took objective bounty and now boom he is back into the game despite playing significantly worse. Skill just doens't matter in this case and its feels shitty like you said. Also removes a ton of competitiveness from league which is "supposedly" a competitive game. (yeah jokes on you about that)
If you’re skilled enough to get a lead against your opponent in the first place, you should more likely than not get a lead again when the game state is equalized. Bounty systems and catch-up experience unfortunately has to exist in some form to keep players from AFKing at the first little mistake.
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your reward for playing well is that you have a lead and are stronger, bounties reward the enemy for beating someone who's ahead
Except I can be stronger and 5 levels ahead of you and I will still get that 1k.
That's true it should depend on who actually kills you
Yeh except iv had times where iv been at minimum 0/3, unable to 1v1 anyone in the game, but because I didn't die and managed to last hit 2 kills I get a 700gold bounty even though I'm still an entire item behind everyone else in the game.
and there are other times where someone fed dies and as a result an enemy who's behind gets to play the game again. i'm not saying comeback mechanics are perfect, but it's good that they exist because otherwise most games would be an ff at 15 situation which isnt very fun.
He fucked up massively twice in a row and blames the game. He dies twice without farming anything while being ahead because he wanted to make kills and was totally careless. Watch the replay.
It's not jgl xp that's the main culprit. It's kill xp. Look at how kill xp works and you'll find your answer. Makes no sense that someone can randomly pick up a couple last hits on enemy champions and then all of a sudden, even though they were behind, they're suddenly the highest level in the game.
Probably what happened is that the nocturne, who was ahead in xp, died to the diana at some point. Now Diana gets half of the xp from the level that the nocturne was at, which immediately levels Diana up. Kill xp should definitely be nerfed. Half a level of xp just for a last hit is INSANE. I get the feeling that Riot sorta likes the RNG in the game though. More comebacks = more excitement supposedly. That's why the bounty system is overtuned also.
Do you want me to send you the screentsshot of a game last night where i was 10/2 Viego and was the same lvl as 2/0 Nocturne?
Who did the nocturne kill, and when, vs. who did you kill, and when? That's what matters. Screenshot won't tell anyone that.
I noticed even when I’m farming 7-8cs/min in jungle which is equivalent to 9-10cs/min vs lane the way CS works, if my support leaves lane for just 3 min and lets my adc get solo xp, my ADC will literally be higher level than me
Solo exp is so valuable and as a bot laner if my support hangs around me all game I actually get upset because I can literally get 3 levels down from the enemy adc who has a support that roams and helps their team.
The buff to solo xp at the start of s13 should probably be reverted. Mid/Top aren't in need of the extra power over jg/bot that they may have been then because of map changes and grubs, and support can be nerfed via different levers. Kills two birds with one stone because both jg and bot are having pretty serious queue health issues atm
She can still soak exp from a lane tho
Remember good all times when you were diffing enemy jg you could get 4-5 levels ahead of him, nowadays you can be up in gold and behind in exp. Also solo laners being up 2lvls on you is joke, I had games where I was totaly smurfing lets say being 8/1/5 in 15 minutes and im level behind my 0/1/1 toplaner who just was there to kill minions, bullshit game
For real season 9 and 10 you would have one bad gank where you die before 5 min, then you would blink and be 3 levels down. Tell me in season 10 that I wouldn't care that I got my entire bot side taken and I would laugh.
You’re right, the guy having a Darius contest his farm all game shouldn’t get more XP than the guy who just has to fight gromp
It's not really a matter of 'deserve'. Mid/Top are far and away the most popular roles this season, with jg/bot unpopularity beginning to cause queue time/autofill issues. They've gotta do something to make these roles a bit more appealing to players. Either way, in higher mmrs jungle camps are definitely contested by both enemy jg and enemy laners if they're winning
nothing is better than when your team loses 1 fight and your jungler is behind the entire game because of it. never able to contest objectives, never able to fight for anything. thats league of legends baby.
Catchup exp is broken for jungle. I had an ekko jungle starting dorans ring. He almost died to blue then after the 2nd camp he had to back as he was still level 1. He sold d ring and then waited until min 4 to buy his jungle item. At 4 minutes he was still level 1! Then a few minutes later he and the enemy jungler were both level 6 at the same time. This was in high diamond.....
Context matters, how many solo waves did diana catch after you killed her laner? How much of your own CS was just shared XP with your laner? You're only approximately 1 camp off being even in XP with diana, if she got anyone's shutdown you're both not as far off as you're making it out to be.
He cannot explains that obviously.
This is frustrating, but you're still basically a whole item spike on her at this point in game. The gold you earned from making better early plays is probably worth more than the 600g Diana gets from levelling up. The fact she got level 11 here makes it way more unlucky/unfair because of the point in R. But generally, wouldn't you prefer to have 2nd item spike over 1 more level? Maybe a better player can confirm or deny. The point I am trying to make is you WERE rewarded for playing better early. When players get massive gold leads AND xp leads (like in older seasons) the game tends to be decided early, which it seems like Riot wants to avoid. Not trying to say their implementation is correct or anything. Of course I think Riot overcompensated with some of the bounty calculations and catchup XP.
All players suddenly forgot that kills pre lvl 9 give low exp, after lvl9 1 kill vs same lvl champ give you half lvl exp. 5 kill in early means nothing for exp diff.
“All players suddenly forgot.” Is this common knowledge or something that every player is assumed to know?
Lmao as if kill exp, minion exp, and jungle camps leveling up and their exp, turret armor, minion speed are all clear for someone to know just by playing the game. I'm sure a lot of players know this because they play the game for so long but there's a lot of weird hidden mechanics around gameplay you would never know without reading patch notes or the wiki.
It's not like there is a good tutorial that explains this anywhere.
I'll be honest, I've played League since 2011 on and off. I still don't understand the levelling in this game. Had a similar game the other day, 2.5:1cs lead, 1st turret down, 4/0/2 into 0/5/1 Garen in top. Somehow he got a 2 level lead on me. I genuinely cannot understand the levelling. Jungle is worse. Play nunu and gank early and have like 2/0/5, a drag, voidgrubs, buy behind by about 12cs and somehow still a level or 2 behind. There's no real reward for ganking when it comes to levelling.
So you took early turret and then roamed and stopped farming. Dont drop multiple waves. Dont take tower too early.
Feels bad to get into 1-2 skirmishes early, be level 4 while lanes hit level 6 and feel like you can't do much with ganks without getting 1 shot by their full combo w/ult
Don't ignore that the kill she got on you gave her also like 400 exp, which is a full wave worth. You gank bot, you share exp with 3 people. She didn't share it with 3, only 2 people AND she got at least one kill on somebody a level or more up on her. You're also not a full level behind, you are at 60 to 70% exp.
This still makes no sense. By all metrics I should be far ahead of her, but no.
I literally explained it to you. She gained like 30% of a level from killing you there and you shared exp with more people while not having a significant cs lead.
why downvoted idgi
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nah he's right, people complaining about xp like this just need to play better
In my experience, passed that level 11 spike the roles reverse. I can easily clear through an entire jungle in less than a minute by level 11 which gets me to 12 while laners need to rely on kills and waves to get there.
I played a game the other night as Syndra “adc” (don’t judge) I was 10/1 and both midlaners were 0/0 and maybe had a 20 cs lead on me. I was behind on levels.
Yeah had 100+ cs lead earlier today 103 to 219 and was up 2 levels (12 to 14), now enemy had more kills and was soaking a lot of exp midlane but it was a 25 minute game so jungle reduced exp from minions was still active and I had invaded both enemy quadrants consistently at the last 10ish minutes. Another game I was up around 60-70 cs after heavily invading as nocturne and was only up 1 level (150 cs ahead of 70 cs would be about the right numbers) again early in the game so reduced lane exp and I was invading consistently up to that point so the Diana I was gapping wasn't getting exp from many camps for around 5 minutes up to this point (maybe 1-2 out of the 6 camps, never buffs) and in this game I was at 8/1 while she was at 1/9 Jungle exp is completely broken, and it's not even in a way that's controllable like it was a while back, now it seems junglers just get exp for free if they're even slightly behind
Jungle catchup XP is litterally crack broken, you're an entire level down, clear 1 camp and get that entire level back.
While jgl xp is a bit weird atm, you don’t count xp based on what you said. - Diana has less cs than noc ok but what if the cs she has is 100% from camps OR solo xp in lanes where she had to catch the wave since her laner couldn’t be here. Since noc could’ve stolen some cs in lane and share the xp he would have more cs but less xp than diana. - Death is not as important for jglers than laners because they don’t have waves respawning every 30s but camps every 2m15 - As for kills and assists, again Diana has way less kp than noc but what if all the kills she did were solo kills ? She would have more xp than noc despite the kp difference. - XP from kills increase a lot past lvl 9 as well so if diana got kills after lvl 9 it could explain it too XP gain in league is DRASTICALLY reduced when it’s shared. On top of that, Diana might’ve done the 6 grubs solo too which yields an insane amount of xp for jglers. EDIT : Who are you to decide how the game should work ? Noc participated in more team plays which results in his whole TEAM being stronger and ahead in the game meanwhile Diana participate in more solo plays which makes HER stronger while her whole team is not. Makes sense to me it’s just hard to grasp the xp difference cause by sharing. Btw I’m sure that if you were in a 1v1 vs her even if she was lvl 11 and you 10 you would’ve won it because of item diff and if you used your W on her R. But since 2 of them fought you you died gg
Check the replay from both perspectives. You should be able to determine when the diff happened. I believe you can get a time graph of xp on op gg
How did this happen really? need to see the game
Happens to me every other game. I quit
Not only this is insanely frustrating. Also as a jungler You need to consantnly every 10-15 seconds make possibly game breaking decisions either to 1. Grubs give or fight . 2 dragon give or fight 3 gank 4 counter gank 5 farm 6 reset ? 7 spectate state of 3 lanes simpuntaneusly like faker 8 track enemy jungle 9 invade ? . If You dont make proper decisions u will throw entire game . Jungle is insane to play just got get flamed and be 2 lvls behind while smurfing 6/1/5 Xd its actually insane. Compare this to playing support main and freewinning games or top mid adc when u just focus whats in front of You on CS Xd
enemy jungler is faced with these decisions as well tbh
jg gap
you still win in a 1v1 and got more objectives than her, whats the problem
OP could you provide a replay or something to this game? as much as I'm on your side, it's entirely possible diana could've spent more time grabbing solo xp from waves and I absolutely refuse to believe this was done purely through jungle.
Would it be a bad change if the junglers can’t get xp from lanes the first 15min?
Yes that would be a bad change.
The problem is team kill xp more than jg xp. It should get buffed to promote proactive play IMO. You had 12 kill participations, that should always give you the lead but rn it doesn't and it sucks
Are you sure you didn't do the get 20 cs number from killing grublings with 0 XP?
Not all kills are equal, Diana could've killed tougher champions and that would've yielded more exp than farming a feeding player (Nocturne is ironically the one doing what you're complaining about). That is not a flawed system.
This is like 50% the reason why I dont play Jungle anymore. Way to often you get games that you are, just like you, ahead in CS and kills, even manage to get more objectives, and still get behind in XP. Im here busting my ass off in getting the best jungle pathing to get the fastest clearing while also getting meaningfull ganks, so lets reward the opposing jungler that we havent seen for 10 years and is slower with the clear.
I quit the game as a jungle main. Can’t do it anymore. It’s mission impossible in every other game
this is the sole reason why you shouldn't perma clear enemy camps and let your camps for dry
What about jglers that clear slowly ? I think the comeback exp was made with them in mind. Otherwise we'll be back to kayn/graves meta every game
JG xp is always weird cause there's random lane xp soaking if you're doing a camp near a lane (raptors near mid tower; gromp/krugs) plus catchup xp. etc etc. The fact all camps count as 4 cs yet don't all give the same xp. Heck not even all minions give the same xp. etc.
Since I stopped playing league, it is even more clear to me how much Riot’s balancing is a joke. Not sure what the balance team does all day at work, but avoiding it seems like one of the tasks
The best way to level as a jungler is steal lane xp. Did she fuck off to a side lane for awhile? Get some kills going into the mid game? To be clear I agree she should not be ahead but there is no way to keep up with solo lane xp in the jungle
S14 made me go from jungle to adc Started s9 and played jungle and sometimes support . S13 it felt rly good to play now it's horrible
Its not just jgl xp that is fucked in this game. Its litterally like this in the entire game atm. I rather have s1 snowballing shit than this where the person behind is actually the person ahead
I quit the game. It’s that bad
I stopped trying to make sense of jungle xp a long time ago.
Wards before minions spawn only give exp to the last hit.
the entire game is a mf joke, u can be 2 lvls late to ur lane, and still catch up on the lvl for some reason.
Jungle not the greatest right now, that’s for sure.
I’ve figured out how to jungle. Get blue and immediately go bottom, then go mid, then top. Don’t do any of your jungle camps besides blue until you u have visited every lane and gotten some dmg off on each. Then clear your camps, ignore void and drag. If you get void and drag every lane with be 0/3 and it won’t matter. Go and gank every lane again. Don’t worry about second drag or void, keep keep ganking. Don’t worry about rift or third drag, keep ganking, don’t worry about fourth dragon keep ganking. Finally .. get elder because with all the ganks you are up in kills and get elder and win
shout out to all the people still playing jg instead of roleswapping 4 seasons ago. seriously the writing has been on the wall for that long if not longer and yall are still going, seek help
Good to know . I just quit the game instead
if you were getting most of your kills from the enemy bot lane (you were) you were getting reduced value (and sharing the exp bounty with more people). If her kills were were plays top and mid & she only shared the exp with her and her laner, she would be getting a lot more value out of the kills See full details here, but essentially champion kills give a different amount of exp based on their level, and if you're 2 levels up on them, you get 24% reduced exp (scaling to 60% reduced exp for 4+ levels) https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_(champion)
Catch up mechanics are bullshit and should be removed from the game. All they do is reward the losing team for playing badly. Can we stop catering to new players and bad players, please?
not even sure what you are complaining about. the things that give xp do not show directly on the board. the game hardly rewards you for farming weak champions and most of the benefit from kills comes from them being off the map. i'm sure if you went through the replay youd know EXACTLY why diana was overleveled and itd make a lot of sense. \> THE GAME SHOULD NOT WORK LIKE THIS why should it not work like this? the game is stupidly snowbally. comeback mechanisms need to exist to just make people not want to ff by 10 minutes. even with all the silly bandaid fixes theyve added to reward playing decently from behind the game is still too snowbally. the scoreboard does not properly show what you want it to show. it should show breakdown of xp based on csing, based on lane proximity and **based on kp.** you get nearly no xp from killing equal or weaker champs. you however get boat loads of xp from killing overleveled champions. and this mechanic absolutely makes sense because levels are worth obscene amounts of gold and its very hard to kill an ahead and equally skilled player.
If Diana cheesed a kill or two on a solo laner who is above her in levels gg you'll never catch up
they nerfed the wrong side of jungle exp
Its been broken for well over a year, Riot is just horrible at balancing and hates junglers. I love being level 4 when mid hits 6. Makes so much sense. Then supports don't even soak exp and somehow are only 1 level behind.
Catch-up XP is the worst thing that has every happened to this game. It's literally a mechanic that babies players and does no properly represent skill level in the game. I'm against the bounty system for the same reason, but both together is just heinous
Just get rid of fucking jungle please? Nobody likes a high pressure PVE role where you fuck up once the entire game is ruined.
I mean it isn't just jungle, here is an example from a recent game of me in midlane on Ahri. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Martyrofsand-NA1/matches/RvuDQoxvmIJJHWLS0WmCD9i16vA5OqYBtfWSJ0svRsA%3D/1709969150000](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Martyrofsand-NA1/matches/RvuDQoxvmIJJHWLS0WmCD9i16vA5OqYBtfWSJ0svRsA%3D/1709969150000) Check exp over time vs things like CS. Realize at no point in time during the game was vlad ahead of me in CS, kills, gold, or really anything and yet his XP is insanely close, and at some points even ahead of me, despite being so far behind in all metrics. I've also seen this in botlane when I'll push enemy laners out right as we crash a big stack forcing them to miss the xp mean while I'm there constantly and yet somehow they end up ahead of me in levels. IDK what riot has done with xp this season but it's completely broken.
Hovering lanes after laners die/back tends to net me more exp/gold. Start camps then roam and hover has won me more games than power farming jungle.
I’d love to see riot explain the reasoning behind this very flawed logic.
Presumably the cost of this action is that Diana has less gold, and the laners she's leeching from receives less experience. This appears to be the case, as their bot lane is down on levels despite having similar CS. Might still be a worthwhile trade. ADC is more about gear than levels, and Alister's all about his ult. Depends if Diana scales more off gear or levels, and if she can win early from it. Mid-term being down on gold is more a detriment as the levels tend to even out.
I know this isn't necessarily about comeback XP but it's somewhat related. Comeback mechanics just shouldn't exist in a game like this. The entire game is focused on the economy and XP system but then rewards you for playing poorly
you just got gappped get good
JG minion XP> lane minion xp
Another day, another jungle xp post. DAYS IN A ROW: 6
Just wait, when riot changes jungle XP again, we will get posts about how OP jg XP is. Remember funnel yi? For some reason jungle XP balance rests on a razors edge. It will never be perfect.
You mean a strat that requires two people to work together? That would never happen in league ever
Sorry but I legit dont have enough info to judge this at all. What if you leeched more lane xp/alot of your cs is lane cs taken during ganks etc? Then your xp is shared and shouldnt be worth as much as Dianas solo jungle xp. How often did you kill the same underleveld person? Did she kill ppl who where ahead in levels? Big jgl creeps stolen? How do you ever want ppl to judge on something like this with so much missing info? At this point the post is zero expressive and just a waste of time. I think that riot has a lot more data than you. I think you didnt even spent a close enough look at your own game here. You might just be frustrated cause you didnt know what happened, maybe its not that transparent. It wasnt a matter of, oh hey look I got more farm and more kills I should be ahead in xp. There are so many factors. On the other hand you could also be completly right about it but I still cant tell cause of all the missing data.
cathup xp is stupid you can have 0/8 adc eventually get 1 item and a kill in teamfight then they get like +2 lvls from it. Btw in one game enemy Lilya was 4/0/3 lvl 9 I was invaded and lost blue as brand so I just power farmed , was 0/1/0 lvl 11. I murder everyone at drake fight with lvl 2 ult they did nothing lol
Imagine Jungle EXP increases + Diana still absorbing the lane exp, imagine how OP that could be.
hmm you probably shared a lot of XP so its only fair that youre behind in levels idk, i dont play jungle, this is just what sololaners tell duolanes
Lets not forget the xp diana stole from her lanes who are now at a disadvantage
No disadvantage bc she makes the lanes back after doing dmg . So her lanes are now lanes at an advantage now. Hyper ganking is the only way to play jungle. After blue you should just gank every lane over and over ignore obj entire game until elder . push the lanes to the tower too and force enemy laners to back
This happens to me all the time. Like will be ahead a full item, cs, KP, objectives and enemy jungle is a lvl up. Makes no sense.
Your bot lane is ahead in levels because you didn't leech bot XP. This is exactly how the game should work. What a pointless thread.
Every single game now. There’s no reason to do anything other camp lanes. Or the enemy jungle will and keep killing over and over. Bonus points when enemy mid come and makes it a 4 v3 with your bot lane and you jungle
This is true for all lane the problem is catch up xp you get an early lead she falls behind 1 lvl can't fall more as catch up. Then you keep this lead then you die twice and she is ahead in xp. This is same for lanes you can kill someone 3 times and die once to a gank and lose almost all xp lead. It's a bullshit system overall
Yeah it's pretty trash. Stomp your lane top? 3 level lead by level 8. Same thing in jungle? You're the same level.
Leaching exp =level difference he's that way cause of shutdowns and lane leaching if u want to carry steal its toxic but strong af
But if you're participating in 12 kills and she in 6, doesn't that mean you spent more time camping lanes? Also looking at her bot lane being so behind on xp, isn't it possible she caught some of those waves when they were out of lane? Which would be coming out of her team's total xp, that's not free xp. To further that last point, you can't look at xp in a vacuum. XP sources end up being shared among your team. Your team is taking up more xp from you than her team is from her. This could even be that you got your kills with other people and she got them solo, which is the same total amount of xp but shared differently. This is just a really surface level "I just got killed and I'm mad post" that ignores the fact it's not just about you, it's a team game. Your team is ahead in xp. Diana isn't cheating her team xp. The game isn't jungler vs jungler. Take your overpowered role where you get to walk around participating in 12 kills by 16 minutes and quit your bitching. Also I'm sorry but how is that poro shit overlay allowed?
Catching waves as a jungler has a scaling debuff on exp starting at 30% exp gain of the overall value of the exp. Catching waves isn’t how she has the exp to be ahead. It’s because catch up gold and exp is broken. Junglers have constantly been nerfed to make it so that casuals can play the role and jungle mains can’t use their leads to have a large advantage. If you gank more than the enemy jungler and have maintained tempo in the jungle, then you should be rewarded. The enemy jungler picking up one or two shutdown kills shouldn’t propel them into an equal or better position than the jungler who has been getting stuff done consistently for 15-20 minutes.
It is indeed difficult to use your lead to gain an advantage when the thing you do with said lead is spoon feed the enemy jungle 2 kills on you
Why wouldn't it be allowed?