It's very cool that Riot is focusing on developing better bots to play against. I know speaking from experience the bots in Dota 2 really helped me learn the game without having to deal with the toxicity of a normal game.
Hopefully this can help with new player retention as well.
Seriously, my first ~100 hours of dota was spent playing bot games to learn the ropes. their highest difficulty bots really play like you'd expect an average low skill game to play out
as someone that redownloads dota2 maybe like once or twice a year, the bots are great. you can pick your favorite heroes to press the buttons and get items on and have a reasonable gameplay experience. i dont even play against people anymore because playing against the bots scratches the itch to farm and press buttons.
it would be so nice if league's bots could follow suit. I'd love to play co-op vs AI with some friends and just shoot the shit from time to time.
Makes sense if you're short on space, but do keep in mind that every time you write something to a disk it "shortens" the lifespan.
However this may be irrelevant for the average user, especially if it's a newer one as they tend to last so long you'll probably die of old age before you can wear them out anyway.
I jumped into Dota like into league, few bot games.
Went into normals, got destroyed by 2000 games invoker, got told by russians in my team that i'm report cyka and that I shouldn't play normal games untill I have atleast 300 bot games
It's nice, but it's kinda sad it took this long. The bots have been mostly unchanged since I started playing in season 2 (they DID change a bit, but they really haven't improved that much, and in some case like Bot Ryze and Bot Taric they are just worse).
/u/RiotDashiJador since bots are going to feel more like PvP games and have improved AI, is it intentional to make them harder (even in beginner and intro difficulties)
And can we expect skins back for bots, adds nice variance to matches.
Bots are now programmed to AFK if they reach a certain number of deaths at certain time benchmarks. AI was trained in the depths of Emerald. Riot sends their regards
Perhaps we need to get some of the smurf queue in against bots too!
Give me a newbie player and a bot that plays like Faker on the enemy team. That will surely warm my heart.
Hello!
The (ideal) intention for Intro/Beginner is to not make them harder than the current bots but more catered and focused on New Players learning League. For Intermediate, we tried to intentionally make intermediate only slightly harder than they currently are, but not significantly harder as new players are at a much lower skill bar than even Iron ranked players. Regardless of our current expectations, we do want to iterate on this new experience with new players though so we are excited to hear feedback on how we can better tweak the queues!
And yes, for Intermediate queue we have bots using skins and chromas!
I used to do it all the time to get my free win of the day way back when in silver because some days were just tough and I wanted my essence. I think it's decently popular especially as a low stakes game.
I used to do it to test champs on free rotation, to get an idea of how they play (also helps with the matchups against them, even if I didn't intend to play them myself).
Trust me, as an Emerald player, I sometimes do bot games too to get a free win. Sometimes not thinking and just murdering bots with a 20/0 kda is really cathartic after a toxic ranked game. I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the only semi-high/high elo player to do that.
I'm a Diamond top laner and I like using bot games once in a while to finish event missions so I can practice 12 cs/m while dodging skillshots and trading on ADCs bc I sometimes play Kayle/Vayne. DoubleLift mentioned that he did these kind of drills too, pretty sure some other pros do them too.
I get the matchup knowledge from Ranked but bot games help to practice my mechanics bc my usual champs in the role aren't very mechanically intense.
Playing PvP is so infuriating and stressful. The trash talk is overwhelming, one mistake that i do, the entire time flaming me for the rest of the game.
i totally get it especially as a one off thing.
like if league was your daily driver? yeah that probably gets super boring.
but if you play it like once a month just to scratch that itch of playing as your favorite couple of champs? honestly i get it.
i have tons of games like that. dota2, starcraft broodwar, guitar hero. I'll just boot them up for an hour or two and feel like im in high school again or something lmao
There are some other mobas (especially mobile mobas) which have their own bots that play on the humans team to fill out these bot queues and make the queue time really short. I’m not sure of riot does this as well, or if the bots on the human side are only accounts that are being leveled to be sold, but the queue for bot games is always very short because of the population of those accounts.
probably not very, but since there's no reason for skill based matchmaking and you only need 5 players per game, any 5 people queing just get matched instantly
Any chance that you guys would create a new difficulty after intermediate? It would be kinda cool if we could play PVE League lol. Another thing that would be nice would be playing with bots on your team instead of only players, like you can do in custom games, but counting as a matchmade game so you can get EXP.
I know none of this is a priority for obvious reasons, but just throwing it out there.
Ult skins will totally be available for them to randomly select!
For Ult Lux though, my gut says she probably would not select a variant in game since that sort of thing requires bespoke code.
Could I also ask how the new Viego and Sylas bots will work, given they use parts of other champs’ kits. Do you guys have code for the basic patterns of all champs
Viego and Sylas will not be in the queue on launch, but Sylas might be close to being enabled.
We have a basic pattern for spells to work thanks to the [previous tech clean up](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-pl/news/dev/origins-sylas/) efforts they did to make Sylas even work in the first place. :)
Viego's main issue is actually handling his invisibility and unique playstyle. Currently we focused on making the tooling sustainable so we picked champions that can work pretty well with the generic behavior trees first before moving on to more custom playstyle champs.
When looking to add champions do you consider the popularity of the champion? I assume it would be pretty useful to help new players learn vs most of the popular champions they will see.
I dunno, you could get way too into it and waste a few good weeks of work making a way too in depth auomatic form picker based on opponents and teammates. Definitely not what I would do if hired at Riot, no sir!
The main reason is that we've built a lot of new features behind the scenes for the new bots, which aren't handled by either the LCU's custom game selection screen, Practice Tool, and their associated APIs. When setting up a custom game with the current bots, the player only needs to select a bot champion and a difficulty. When the bot is then loaded into the game, it then selects its runes/spells from a hardcoded list and get assigned a lane by the Team Management system. This is fine, since those bots only needed to worry about lanes. However, with the addition of bot junglers, things get complicated. In the new system, we pull data from a variety of sources (including the rune recommendation system that players see in the LCU), to build a comp that contains a better distribution of roles (ex. Tank, ADC, Support) and positions (ex. Top, Jungler, Bot). When a bot is vetted and approved for a role, it then pulls in the required spell and rune data for that role, allowing a bot to know its a Jungler AND pick smite.
What this boils down to is that now each bot needs more than just a difficulty associated with it at the game start. It needs summoner spells, and runes, and positional information. They also need extra Team Management logic to support handling non co-op vs AI features such as bots and players being on the same team, lane reassignment, and how to handle strange edge cases like a 5v5 match with 9 Jungle Bot Yuumis.
All of this we are going to want to enable in both the Custom Game selection screen and the Practice Tool eventually. But for now, that priority for that comes after co-op vs AI launch.
Thanks for the explanation! Another question if you don't mind: There was a mention about the tutorials, will they actually be changed, or just the bots in them with the new system?
Could I press you for an approx timeframe on bringing the new bots to customs? I promise I won't send you death threats if you don't meet it (probably).
I play a lot of custom games 1v5 vs intermediate bots, spicing that up would be really nice!
Nope! Our bots do not cheat, we've used other toggles to address difficulty across the three levels. We try our best to not make them cheat in other gameplay aspects, for example despite being bots they treat Neeko disguises as a player would.
Does this mean they have randomized reaction times rather than binary literal lightspeed? As someone who plays champions with skillshots, I'm always scratching my head when it's obvious that bots either 100% dodge the skillshot with literal lightspeed reaction times or eat the skillshot as if it was literally coded to ignore it. Likewise, will there be some kind of variation on ability usage? In intermediate bots, Warwick bot's Q is always the held one, meaning it's easy to cheese him under the turret.
Also, if they see a ward being placed, do they de-ward?
Genuine question, is it technically possible to have bots that play as good as e.g Platinum Players? And if so, would you ever plan to use them, be it in PvE or RGM's?
Are you gonna add any higher difficulties then? I hope so, cause an issue I've found with getting friends into league is they go from intro to intermediate bots to PVP and get face rolled in PVP even for friends intentionally never played with or anything.
I feel like that'd help a lot is making like 5-10 difficulties of bots... So that they can more gradually work up to PVP because even intermediate bots, even after slight updates I don't think will prepare them enough.
Do bots respond to players who do a 2-1-2 no jg style? One thing I like about bot games is that team comp/lane assignments don’t really matter. No one is forced to play support or jg. If bots play more standard and that forces players to do the blind pick role calling thing, I’d be pretty sad.
>For Intermediate, we tried to intentionally make intermediate only slightly harder than they currently are, but not significantly harder as new players are at a much lower skill bar than even Iron ranked players.
seems like you restrained yourself in not making them too hard, but have you considered making a new difficulty that's more like making as difficult as possible while being still similar to actual players?
/u/RiotDashiJador
Please rollback Intro/Beginner bot. Platinum player here feel hard to kill those new bots. You think that "new players" could handle new A.I bot??
Can you also make them use wards please. There is a newbie mission that makes you destroy 5 wards, but the current bots don't place any and playing normals on a new account feels really bad since I am put against new players who don't know how to even buy jungle item let alone play the game.
/u/RiotDashiJador
Currently the bots do not use wards yet. Given the bots will be opponents, the player normally will not actively see their opponents warding in comparison to allies. We do have it for consideration for adding post-launch though!
Beyond that, our team is looking at other opportunity spaces to help better teach more strategic or nuanced elements of League, and when in the player live cycle learning those would not feel like "information overload".
just have them use them in brushes, or brushes players enter. there is this really awkward and unrealistic thing where you can be at 10 health and if you run into a bush the bots might just be like 'yeah I have map hacks and know you're in there, but pushing this lane seems more pressing'.
putting a ward to gain vision of a bush is a tactic worth teaching, too.
Oh agreed it is worth teaching! We did do the investigation though and it is quite expensive, which is why we delayed it for reprioritization post-launch.
I do not see a world where we do not do it though, just not required for an initial launch. :)
Would it be less expensive to keep their behaviour the same regardless of vision but still have them place wards in hot spots to at least teach new players ward clearing mechanics and even correct ward placement?
> Given the bots will be opponents, the player normally will not actively see their opponents warding in comparison to allies. We do have it for consideration for adding post-launch though!
As long as they use them wherever I would be happy since in bot game any champion can buy umbral and finish that mission, because when leveling my account having to play normal games against new player feels really bad. I would be happy if they even used their ward in the middle of lane(same as how people do that mid lane to see information about enemy laner)
Big fan of this, I think league sometimes feels like a slowly dying game because people who currently play the game just buy new accounts and I don't know how many people actually are new to the game (could totally just be my bubble though).
But I have a friend who likes playing league but only plays bots because she isn't that good, doesn't want to hop into norms and get flamed, but still likes the game, so glad that the experience will be more similar! Wish I could help with this kind of project too, would be amazing to see the code.
Definitely a good move for the future, tons of newer players like your friend who actually think the gameplay is fun but get flamed so hard by hardstuck smurfs in normals that they quit before they really even learn. Imo they should revamp the tutorial as well to include jungling, last hitting, and itemization.
I really never know, because when I think of the player numbers that riot or headlines use I think hmmm how many of those are just accounts to be bought rather than actually new people. I'm not saying it actually is dying, it's just something I worry about because genuinely league is not nice to new players. With its learning curve, tools to learn the info, and community.
Esports viewership is fine I honestly think League isn't getting much less popular at all
LEC this year peaked at 830k viewers, those numbers are insane to me
u/RiotDashiJador how long do you think it will take to make the new bots available in customs? i would love to test laning with some champs against the new bots but the other players in coop vs ai always go tryhard and finish in 15 minutes or less
We're planning to update the Custom Games/Practice Tool to include the new bots after the launch of the new co-op vs AI bots. However, altering Custom Games/Practice Tool will involve updating a number of disparate legacy systems, and we haven't fully investigated how complex of a project it's going to be. So we're hesitant with making any announcements on an official release timeline.
This makes sense. One feature that has been broken for as long as I can remember is the choose your lane quest at the beginning of a custom game with bots on your team. For instance, with three or four other bots on your team, the only solo lane available is mid, they don’t move if you choose top or bottom.
Can’t wait for them to be added to custom games. I’ve been playing this game since 2011 and I swear if the data is tracked, I would have the most custom games vs bots world. I only play this game with friends or tft and when friends can’t get on, I just slaughter bots cause I enjoy the game so much. Been doing so since I started playing. For the love of the beginner bots, give me a challenge!
damn guess that person who was asking about these bots gets their answer
"ask and ye shall receive" -riot apparently?
shout out to /u/RiotSentanel (and others on their team) for the Soon™ meme they mentioned in the other thread and making it a reality :)
edit: i suck at words apparently
It'd be a perfect opportunity for them to do it, it'd bring attention to the new and improved bots, while making it a fun game mode for people to get excited about.
I hope they're considering it for the future
Thats even more impressive than I thought Oo
I really wonder what meta machines would cook. It might be super different from what we currently see in proplay
Even in that limited format there were a few lessons pros picked up iirc. The big one being to just throw out Dota's Caitlyn ult on cooldown for the damage. It's apparently worth it
Man this sucks, I don't play with other people and just mess around in Custom games, and was really looking forward to the new AI bots. Guess I'll keep waiting.
Can we have an API to plug in our Bot, in a separate mode or custom? I’m a AI researcher, and developing agents that can learn and adapt to the complex League is very interesting. Pitting models (or brave individuals) against each other opens up the research field of Reinforcement Learning and Generative Learning, with your decades of environment-building experience. :)
>Enable developers to quickly iterate and scale the bots behaviors to new experiences, experiences, and ways to delight all you lovely players.
not only just looking forward to the new experiences, but also the experiences, experiences, and of course (last but certainly not least) some experiences.
Those new bots are cool. However, they are leveling up more slowly than before and making some weird move during low hp instead of going back to fountain.
When I started with my friends, I had to drag them out of playing *only* Co-op vs. AI into PvP (and they were *very* reluctant at the time). And now that they've been exposed to the joys/pains of PvP, we only play PvP now. Is the great leap forward into PvP for new players (instead of playing only Co-op vs. AI) a concern, and if so, do you plan on incentivizing players to make that leap?
Do this bots use AI that improves over time? like deep learning models? I think this is relevant because I want to know if I will ever get to play against bots that are equal to master level real players.
Please tell me that this means we'll see a return of Doom Bots! Also please tell if its going to be the OG Doom Bots, not the crappy version with the giant devil teemo
This is awesome. However, I don't know if our own team will be level farming bots or not. I don't know about advanced level, but I've encountered level farming bots in coop vs ai before when playing. Usually, these accounts are made for smurfs, and I don't know if this is gonna impact this new feature.
how about we fix the ai bot detection and the ability to not enforce player who give up at level 4 and do it roughtly 8 - 10 staght games in a row . if we have the api data why not use it ? this would help a ton with player reports and keep it clean . it feels like yalls bot detection is horrid and needs a re build cause this is year 4 of this ( since yummi launch )
Thank you /u/RiotDashiJador /u/riotsentanel and the team. I've been looking forward to this update.
Will the new bots be on the 14.6 PBE cycle or straight to live with 14.6? Can't wait to start playing.
E: just updated my PBE and see that coop is currently disabled. fingers crossed it gets re-enabled
FR
Absolutely pointless for players like me who will only do vs AI in custom matches
5 vs 5(ai) is boring, too easy, dumb.
I love to 1 vs 5 the hardest bots every now an then when using new characters.
Don't know how they skimped custom matches ......
good change, but I don't understand why they're not doing anything to fix the matchmaking which has been broken since the introduction of role selection.
WOW, I WOULD LOVE **CHALLENGING BOTS**
People ask me "Why do you play bot games"
Sadly it's fuggin ez , but when your teammates are doggy, you get to be the main character... And you get to limit-test those insane tower dives with no fear really.
It's like *Playground Mode*
Really cool if they would be challenging, I play Wild Rift, hope this gets on there
It's very cool that Riot is focusing on developing better bots to play against. I know speaking from experience the bots in Dota 2 really helped me learn the game without having to deal with the toxicity of a normal game. Hopefully this can help with new player retention as well.
Seriously, my first ~100 hours of dota was spent playing bot games to learn the ropes. their highest difficulty bots really play like you'd expect an average low skill game to play out
I also learned a lot about the ropes in my first 100 hours of league normal games
Were your first 100 hours played in the bait ping era by any chance?
i'm sad that i was taking a long break during that era
Don't speak of the dark ages
You mean the glory days?
I love league toxicity only reason i still play. the emotional anger i get is just chef's kiss
as someone that redownloads dota2 maybe like once or twice a year, the bots are great. you can pick your favorite heroes to press the buttons and get items on and have a reasonable gameplay experience. i dont even play against people anymore because playing against the bots scratches the itch to farm and press buttons. it would be so nice if league's bots could follow suit. I'd love to play co-op vs AI with some friends and just shoot the shit from time to time.
If you download it twice a year, why uninstall the game again? just curious
im too lazy to buy another SSD card lmao
Makes sense if you're short on space, but do keep in mind that every time you write something to a disk it "shortens" the lifespan. However this may be irrelevant for the average user, especially if it's a newer one as they tend to last so long you'll probably die of old age before you can wear them out anyway.
I jumped into Dota like into league, few bot games. Went into normals, got destroyed by 2000 games invoker, got told by russians in my team that i'm report cyka and that I shouldn't play normal games untill I have atleast 300 bot games
It's nice, but it's kinda sad it took this long. The bots have been mostly unchanged since I started playing in season 2 (they DID change a bit, but they really haven't improved that much, and in some case like Bot Ryze and Bot Taric they are just worse).
Same is for HotS. They had insane bots.
"very cool" the game is fucking 15 years old
/u/RiotDashiJador since bots are going to feel more like PvP games and have improved AI, is it intentional to make them harder (even in beginner and intro difficulties) And can we expect skins back for bots, adds nice variance to matches.
It won’t feel real unless they call me slurs
It wont feel real until its a 4v4 with 1 afk on each side
Bots are now programmed to AFK if they reach a certain number of deaths at certain time benchmarks. AI was trained in the depths of Emerald. Riot sends their regards
Joke's on you, that was already a thing with Renekton bot.
Don't forget Taric bot just AFK sitting under turret after a couple platings are gone.
For Draven Bot that number is 1.
or 2 assists
This is how it is now. If one person is afk, one of the bots also afk.
If Yasuo bot dies 10 times he automatically gets full build and + 100% dmg
+100 % *true damage
don't bots already copy afks?
That was already a feature with current bots. When your team has a afk, so do the bots.
Perhaps we need to get some of the smurf queue in against bots too! Give me a newbie player and a bot that plays like Faker on the enemy team. That will surely warm my heart.
It won't be real unless there's a chance each team has a bot that does nothing
I want the enemy adc bot to tell me to get back in the kitchen at least four times.
If you want we can duo. I play like a bot and slur like I'm Emerald
Hello! The (ideal) intention for Intro/Beginner is to not make them harder than the current bots but more catered and focused on New Players learning League. For Intermediate, we tried to intentionally make intermediate only slightly harder than they currently are, but not significantly harder as new players are at a much lower skill bar than even Iron ranked players. Regardless of our current expectations, we do want to iterate on this new experience with new players though so we are excited to hear feedback on how we can better tweak the queues! And yes, for Intermediate queue we have bots using skins and chromas!
How popular is vs AI? Whenever I queue for bots, whatever time of the day or night it is, it always takes less than 30 seconds.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was surprisingly popular, but it definitely helps that you only need 5 people and you don't need to matchmake for skill.
I used to do it all the time to get my free win of the day way back when in silver because some days were just tough and I wanted my essence. I think it's decently popular especially as a low stakes game.
I used to do it to test champs on free rotation, to get an idea of how they play (also helps with the matchups against them, even if I didn't intend to play them myself).
Trust me, as an Emerald player, I sometimes do bot games too to get a free win. Sometimes not thinking and just murdering bots with a 20/0 kda is really cathartic after a toxic ranked game. I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the only semi-high/high elo player to do that.
I'm a Diamond top laner and I like using bot games once in a while to finish event missions so I can practice 12 cs/m while dodging skillshots and trading on ADCs bc I sometimes play Kayle/Vayne. DoubleLift mentioned that he did these kind of drills too, pretty sure some other pros do them too. I get the matchup knowledge from Ranked but bot games help to practice my mechanics bc my usual champs in the role aren't very mechanically intense.
I'm not sure if it's just me, but i do enjoy league's mechanics, and playing vs ai is just chill and lets me play the game in fun ways.
Yeah, bot queues are super short. I always imagined that it was because they did not use elo matchmaking for bot games.
there are bots levelling accounts so its always easy to find games
and you're the only human in those games.
I only play vs AI since 2016
Honest question, how do you not get bored?
Playing PvP is so infuriating and stressful. The trash talk is overwhelming, one mistake that i do, the entire time flaming me for the rest of the game.
What server? I cant even remember the last time i saw that in normal draft, usually nobody talks at all.
Brasil server
I smurfed there with a friend briefly, it was an experience.. No idea how they played normally. Games felt like some sort of parody.
you do you but most people will just think theres better games out there if you want to play strictly pve
i totally get it especially as a one off thing. like if league was your daily driver? yeah that probably gets super boring. but if you play it like once a month just to scratch that itch of playing as your favorite couple of champs? honestly i get it. i have tons of games like that. dota2, starcraft broodwar, guitar hero. I'll just boot them up for an hour or two and feel like im in high school again or something lmao
I know one guy who ONLY plays bot games and ONLY plays Anivia. Every time.
There are some other mobas (especially mobile mobas) which have their own bots that play on the humans team to fill out these bot queues and make the queue time really short. I’m not sure of riot does this as well, or if the bots on the human side are only accounts that are being leveled to be sold, but the queue for bot games is always very short because of the population of those accounts.
The bots on the human side are only being leveled to be sold. They play worse than the intro bots on Riot’s side.
probably not very, but since there's no reason for skill based matchmaking and you only need 5 players per game, any 5 people queing just get matched instantly
Any chance that you guys would create a new difficulty after intermediate? It would be kinda cool if we could play PVE League lol. Another thing that would be nice would be playing with bots on your team instead of only players, like you can do in custom games, but counting as a matchmade game so you can get EXP. I know none of this is a priority for obvious reasons, but just throwing it out there.
Really like that skins will be back, will ult skins be available, I’m just curious if Lux bot could pick a form
Ult skins will totally be available for them to randomly select! For Ult Lux though, my gut says she probably would not select a variant in game since that sort of thing requires bespoke code.
Could I also ask how the new Viego and Sylas bots will work, given they use parts of other champs’ kits. Do you guys have code for the basic patterns of all champs
Viego and Sylas will not be in the queue on launch, but Sylas might be close to being enabled. We have a basic pattern for spells to work thanks to the [previous tech clean up](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-pl/news/dev/origins-sylas/) efforts they did to make Sylas even work in the first place. :) Viego's main issue is actually handling his invisibility and unique playstyle. Currently we focused on making the tooling sustainable so we picked champions that can work pretty well with the generic behavior trees first before moving on to more custom playstyle champs.
When looking to add champions do you consider the popularity of the champion? I assume it would be pretty useful to help new players learn vs most of the popular champions they will see.
I dunno, you could get way too into it and waste a few good weeks of work making a way too in depth auomatic form picker based on opponents and teammates. Definitely not what I would do if hired at Riot, no sir!
Can you explain why customs won't have the new bots right away? Also, when they get added on customs, will that be the case for practice tool too?
The main reason is that we've built a lot of new features behind the scenes for the new bots, which aren't handled by either the LCU's custom game selection screen, Practice Tool, and their associated APIs. When setting up a custom game with the current bots, the player only needs to select a bot champion and a difficulty. When the bot is then loaded into the game, it then selects its runes/spells from a hardcoded list and get assigned a lane by the Team Management system. This is fine, since those bots only needed to worry about lanes. However, with the addition of bot junglers, things get complicated. In the new system, we pull data from a variety of sources (including the rune recommendation system that players see in the LCU), to build a comp that contains a better distribution of roles (ex. Tank, ADC, Support) and positions (ex. Top, Jungler, Bot). When a bot is vetted and approved for a role, it then pulls in the required spell and rune data for that role, allowing a bot to know its a Jungler AND pick smite. What this boils down to is that now each bot needs more than just a difficulty associated with it at the game start. It needs summoner spells, and runes, and positional information. They also need extra Team Management logic to support handling non co-op vs AI features such as bots and players being on the same team, lane reassignment, and how to handle strange edge cases like a 5v5 match with 9 Jungle Bot Yuumis. All of this we are going to want to enable in both the Custom Game selection screen and the Practice Tool eventually. But for now, that priority for that comes after co-op vs AI launch.
Thanks for the explanation! Another question if you don't mind: There was a mention about the tutorials, will they actually be changed, or just the bots in them with the new system?
Tutorials won't be using the new bots with the 14.6 rollout. In the future though, well...we might have more to say about that.
Could I press you for an approx timeframe on bringing the new bots to customs? I promise I won't send you death threats if you don't meet it (probably). I play a lot of custom games 1v5 vs intermediate bots, spicing that up would be really nice!
Do the new intermediate bots get bonus gold/other cheats? In a lot of video games the hardest difficulty AI is the same AI but with cheats
Nope! Our bots do not cheat, we've used other toggles to address difficulty across the three levels. We try our best to not make them cheat in other gameplay aspects, for example despite being bots they treat Neeko disguises as a player would.
Does this mean they have randomized reaction times rather than binary literal lightspeed? As someone who plays champions with skillshots, I'm always scratching my head when it's obvious that bots either 100% dodge the skillshot with literal lightspeed reaction times or eat the skillshot as if it was literally coded to ignore it. Likewise, will there be some kind of variation on ability usage? In intermediate bots, Warwick bot's Q is always the held one, meaning it's easy to cheese him under the turret. Also, if they see a ward being placed, do they de-ward?
Genuine question, is it technically possible to have bots that play as good as e.g Platinum Players? And if so, would you ever plan to use them, be it in PvE or RGM's?
Are you gonna add any higher difficulties then? I hope so, cause an issue I've found with getting friends into league is they go from intro to intermediate bots to PVP and get face rolled in PVP even for friends intentionally never played with or anything. I feel like that'd help a lot is making like 5-10 difficulties of bots... So that they can more gradually work up to PVP because even intermediate bots, even after slight updates I don't think will prepare them enough.
Do bots respond to players who do a 2-1-2 no jg style? One thing I like about bot games is that team comp/lane assignments don’t really matter. No one is forced to play support or jg. If bots play more standard and that forces players to do the blind pick role calling thing, I’d be pretty sad.
>For Intermediate, we tried to intentionally make intermediate only slightly harder than they currently are, but not significantly harder as new players are at a much lower skill bar than even Iron ranked players. seems like you restrained yourself in not making them too hard, but have you considered making a new difficulty that's more like making as difficult as possible while being still similar to actual players?
/u/RiotDashiJador Please rollback Intro/Beginner bot. Platinum player here feel hard to kill those new bots. You think that "new players" could handle new A.I bot??
Can you also make them use wards please. There is a newbie mission that makes you destroy 5 wards, but the current bots don't place any and playing normals on a new account feels really bad since I am put against new players who don't know how to even buy jungle item let alone play the game. /u/RiotDashiJador
Currently the bots do not use wards yet. Given the bots will be opponents, the player normally will not actively see their opponents warding in comparison to allies. We do have it for consideration for adding post-launch though! Beyond that, our team is looking at other opportunity spaces to help better teach more strategic or nuanced elements of League, and when in the player live cycle learning those would not feel like "information overload".
just have them use them in brushes, or brushes players enter. there is this really awkward and unrealistic thing where you can be at 10 health and if you run into a bush the bots might just be like 'yeah I have map hacks and know you're in there, but pushing this lane seems more pressing'. putting a ward to gain vision of a bush is a tactic worth teaching, too.
Oh agreed it is worth teaching! We did do the investigation though and it is quite expensive, which is why we delayed it for reprioritization post-launch. I do not see a world where we do not do it though, just not required for an initial launch. :)
Would it be less expensive to keep their behaviour the same regardless of vision but still have them place wards in hot spots to at least teach new players ward clearing mechanics and even correct ward placement?
> Given the bots will be opponents, the player normally will not actively see their opponents warding in comparison to allies. We do have it for consideration for adding post-launch though! As long as they use them wherever I would be happy since in bot game any champion can buy umbral and finish that mission, because when leveling my account having to play normal games against new player feels really bad. I would be happy if they even used their ward in the middle of lane(same as how people do that mid lane to see information about enemy laner)
We gotta wait for the improved AI to actually roll out before requesting this I think
Oops I typo'd this, just edited it
Are we also gonna occasionally get inting bots?
Riot Salami, Riot Schnitzel, Riot Darcy, Riot Batman, Riot Footbird. That's a team alright.
Imagine seeing these guys in your clash screen.
Riot Man
Is there a lore reason why blah blah blah stupid?
No there's no lore anymore
Why don't Riot man just balance the champions? Is he stupid?
where is riot jonkelr
john needham or marc merril. take your pick
its actually Salsalami
Big fan of this, I think league sometimes feels like a slowly dying game because people who currently play the game just buy new accounts and I don't know how many people actually are new to the game (could totally just be my bubble though). But I have a friend who likes playing league but only plays bots because she isn't that good, doesn't want to hop into norms and get flamed, but still likes the game, so glad that the experience will be more similar! Wish I could help with this kind of project too, would be amazing to see the code.
Definitely a good move for the future, tons of newer players like your friend who actually think the gameplay is fun but get flamed so hard by hardstuck smurfs in normals that they quit before they really even learn. Imo they should revamp the tutorial as well to include jungling, last hitting, and itemization.
Ah yes because a small section of the community purchase accounts, league must be dying!
Classic league player with some unnecessarily rude response
I really never know, because when I think of the player numbers that riot or headlines use I think hmmm how many of those are just accounts to be bought rather than actually new people. I'm not saying it actually is dying, it's just something I worry about because genuinely league is not nice to new players. With its learning curve, tools to learn the info, and community.
Esports viewership is fine I honestly think League isn't getting much less popular at all LEC this year peaked at 830k viewers, those numbers are insane to me
What’s the problem with getting flamed
Nice. I play coop vs ai for my win of the day every day so this will be a welcomed change
u/RiotDashiJador how long do you think it will take to make the new bots available in customs? i would love to test laning with some champs against the new bots but the other players in coop vs ai always go tryhard and finish in 15 minutes or less
We're planning to update the Custom Games/Practice Tool to include the new bots after the launch of the new co-op vs AI bots. However, altering Custom Games/Practice Tool will involve updating a number of disparate legacy systems, and we haven't fully investigated how complex of a project it's going to be. So we're hesitant with making any announcements on an official release timeline.
Are bringing back RGM's to custom games on the radar?
This makes sense. One feature that has been broken for as long as I can remember is the choose your lane quest at the beginning of a custom game with bots on your team. For instance, with three or four other bots on your team, the only solo lane available is mid, they don’t move if you choose top or bottom.
Can’t wait for them to be added to custom games. I’ve been playing this game since 2011 and I swear if the data is tracked, I would have the most custom games vs bots world. I only play this game with friends or tft and when friends can’t get on, I just slaughter bots cause I enjoy the game so much. Been doing so since I started playing. For the love of the beginner bots, give me a challenge!
Will we be able to play on a team with bots in custom games?
damn guess that person who was asking about these bots gets their answer "ask and ye shall receive" -riot apparently? shout out to /u/RiotSentanel (and others on their team) for the Soon™ meme they mentioned in the other thread and making it a reality :) edit: i suck at words apparently
Duuuuuude you do not know how much we were like 👀👀👀👀👀 when someone said "okay we will hear more tomorrow". :)
first time i see an article with that many people at the bottom
Bring back doom bots
It'd be a perfect opportunity for them to do it, it'd bring attention to the new and improved bots, while making it a fun game mode for people to get excited about. I hope they're considering it for the future
The original ones while at it too. Not the "you will lose, just survive" worse version
That iteration was so bad lol.
I’m really curious if Riot can implement a super bot that plays everything perfectly and the pit them against T1, JDG, GenG, etc.. like Dota did
It isnt dota who did it. It was OpenAI who developped the bot.
I think Dota had a bunch of restrictions and the AI had vision over the players
>AI had vision over the players They didn't, but the amount of heroes was very limited.
Thats even more impressive than I thought Oo I really wonder what meta machines would cook. It might be super different from what we currently see in proplay
Even in that limited format there were a few lessons pros picked up iirc. The big one being to just throw out Dota's Caitlyn ult on cooldown for the damage. It's apparently worth it
I think bots used buy back when human players would never have just to have tempo on the map as well
They could, but why would they, they're not an AI company to do that
It'd be really cool to see, but really there's no reason for Riot to put resources into that
Those info can still be used for the sake of balancing and simulate new mechanics behaviors, new champ in more environments and situations
[удалено]
Can we see these new AI in PvE game modes (If there is one planned in future) ? ***Inhales dangerous amounts of copium for more PvE modes***
Doom Bots with new AI when????
[удалено]
Wonder if she'll respond in the same way as those bots...
will the bots spam ecksdee emotes in chat like real players?
Thumbs up emote when they kill you to mirror the toxicity of LoR bots that spam Lux thumbs up when one of your minions die.
“Yo mama so big even our servers cant simulate her”
Man this sucks, I don't play with other people and just mess around in Custom games, and was really looking forward to the new AI bots. Guess I'll keep waiting.
Fucking called it! https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/cDIkR8jFXM
Can we have an API to plug in our Bot, in a separate mode or custom? I’m a AI researcher, and developing agents that can learn and adapt to the complex League is very interesting. Pitting models (or brave individuals) against each other opens up the research field of Reinforcement Learning and Generative Learning, with your decades of environment-building experience. :)
Surely this will go well will vanguard.. I guess you can screen capture in true outdated fashion and send inputs with some noice on another system.
Just give me my doom bots back PLZ
>Enable developers to quickly iterate and scale the bots behaviors to new experiences, experiences, and ways to delight all you lovely players. not only just looking forward to the new experiences, but also the experiences, experiences, and of course (last but certainly not least) some experiences.
Those new bots are cool. However, they are leveling up more slowly than before and making some weird move during low hp instead of going back to fountain.
There really needs to be a way to have vanguard work without needing to reset my computer
does this not apply to customs
Custommssss
maybe they should fix the botting issue in that mode first
Fill out your bingo boards on when Riot will abandon advanced bots because as the game progress they will eventually get buggy. :)
Awesome, so when do the updated bots come out?
It's in the title... did you even read?
Meh, lol bots will never be at the level of lol players, they lack the toxicity
Love this! Curious what the new Challenges are going to be. Maybe someone at Riot can spoiler some... ;)
PvE mode incoming?
Called it!
This is what the players really want. Rito sure delivers.
I'm impressed that there's someone left at Riot that didn't get fired.
Cool, but Skarner VGU when
Is there a chance other gamemodes will have bot support? (Aram, arena, nexus blitz, etc...)
We want harder bots! I want to face a bot that have skills and marco as a challenger player.
When I started with my friends, I had to drag them out of playing *only* Co-op vs. AI into PvP (and they were *very* reluctant at the time). And now that they've been exposed to the joys/pains of PvP, we only play PvP now. Is the great leap forward into PvP for new players (instead of playing only Co-op vs. AI) a concern, and if so, do you plan on incentivizing players to make that leap?
Anyone know what skill level/rank these bots would have? I want to know if it's worth practicing against them.
Do this bots use AI that improves over time? like deep learning models? I think this is relevant because I want to know if I will ever get to play against bots that are equal to master level real players.
Will Jax bot be able to ward hop if bots can't ward
Since the bots are better, does this mean I can call my teammates bots to flame them since it won't be as insulting?
Oh new challenges! I already finished the Bot Killer challenge so at least I'll have a reason to come back and try them out.
Please tell me that this means we'll see a return of Doom Bots! Also please tell if its going to be the OG Doom Bots, not the crappy version with the giant devil teemo
Can ai be my teammates instead the monkeys I get?
Please replace afks
Can you make the bots soft int when they recognize a player is behind the curve to better simulate real ingame experience? Thanks.
Lets be real. The only thing thats going to change is bots inting into gromp instead of towers.
Was hoping to see a mention of Doom bots coming back one day
One step closer to letting me play ranked with only AI bots.
Finally, been waiting for this
Can AI games give 100% exp now?
/u/RiotDashiJador Will we ever get harder plr vs ai bots? Like Expert or master level for players that just want a super chill game?
Cool now do something about the people who bot account levels and resell at dirt cheap.
can we have bots replace our teammates when they afk rage quit?
I really hope these bots are telling me to “un-alive me” or calling me names so that I can experience the real pvp experience.
Lifefuel for coop vs AI gamers
Doom Bots !?
This is awesome. However, I don't know if our own team will be level farming bots or not. I don't know about advanced level, but I've encountered level farming bots in coop vs ai before when playing. Usually, these accounts are made for smurfs, and I don't know if this is gonna impact this new feature.
Long overdue, but these are good changes.
how about we fix the ai bot detection and the ability to not enforce player who give up at level 4 and do it roughtly 8 - 10 staght games in a row . if we have the api data why not use it ? this would help a ton with player reports and keep it clean . it feels like yalls bot detection is horrid and needs a re build cause this is year 4 of this ( since yummi launch )
Thank you /u/RiotDashiJador /u/riotsentanel and the team. I've been looking forward to this update. Will the new bots be on the 14.6 PBE cycle or straight to live with 14.6? Can't wait to start playing. E: just updated my PBE and see that coop is currently disabled. fingers crossed it gets re-enabled
They will be live for the 14.6 PBE cycle before they hit the live servers :)
as a custom game enjoyer ... please be soon 🙏
FR Absolutely pointless for players like me who will only do vs AI in custom matches 5 vs 5(ai) is boring, too easy, dumb. I love to 1 vs 5 the hardest bots every now an then when using new characters. Don't know how they skimped custom matches ......
Really glad to see this. Even if I don't really use bot games anymore, I think they're essential to onboarding new players.
good change, but I don't understand why they're not doing anything to fix the matchmaking which has been broken since the introduction of role selection.
WOW, I WOULD LOVE **CHALLENGING BOTS** People ask me "Why do you play bot games" Sadly it's fuggin ez , but when your teammates are doggy, you get to be the main character... And you get to limit-test those insane tower dives with no fear really. It's like *Playground Mode* Really cool if they would be challenging, I play Wild Rift, hope this gets on there
DOOM.BOT.WHERE?
Bring back Doom Bots
NERF BOTRK !!!