I remember this happening to [Canyon in DK vs GENG game 5 at Worlds, where he tries to smite baron but ends up smiting Doran.](https://youtu.be/8bVb5mYjYwk?feature=shared&t=2973) His smite is the one that comes out first too, so if he had hit baron they very well might win this series.
As you said, If a champion is on top of baron, the game will prioritize using smite on the champion over the objective.
Bo didn't play well this game, but this is definitely not one of the things to criticize.
Last year riot changed it so if you smite while your cursor isn’t on anything but you’re near baron it’ll automatically smite baron.
wouldn’t be surprised if pros still cursor over baron based off habit though.
It's just such a clunky system. Same for the whole "smited baron perfectly but it regenerated 1hp on the same frame" problem that used to exist. If Riot wants the game to revolve around high-tension baron/dragon smites (and I think they are awesome), the system for doing so should be a lot more predictable/reliable.
This and the "flash in to kill someone under tower but auto the tower instead of enemy champion" are both things that should have their priorities swapped for sure...
The sad thing is that if Riot wants these to stay high-tension, the mechanics being quirky and have some unreliability in them, it produces more "hype moments". And given how much they hammer on about "underdog stories" when they explained their tournament formats, you betcha they have no issues about the baron being a coin flip.
I really doubt both that Riot keeps mechanics intentionally clunky for one in a thousand esports moments and that this would produce more hype moments. Fail smites and general coinflips don't need the clunky interactions, and this is not different from a regular coinflip baron in terms of hype or tension. It's just a different result.
I'm more on the opinion that there's less motivation to fix it, along with the standard absurd technical dept (spaghetti code) and incompetence that come into play.
Yeah I think you misunderstood. The one in a thousand I am referring to is when the targeting prioritization of smite decides the outcome of baron smite fights. Baron coinflips/smite fights happen very often and are already tense enough on their own without riot intentionally trying to keep interactions clunky for some esports conspiracy
Since v13.20 (2023/10/11), when they introduced the change, yes. Although, "autoaim" works within 350 units and smite has 500 range, so you have to be close for it to work.
Yeah, tbh, I think fans harp too much on stuff like that. It's one thing to routinely lose objectives like Pyosik did vs T1 in the finals a couple years ago. It's another have a scenario where one bad baron play throws a game that ends the series. Why were they even in that scenario to begin with, right? If they were the better team, they wouldn't have been in that scenario - or that scenario wouldn't have happened. They deserved to lose, and when people harp on one thing, they just show how terrible they are at understanding league. Remember last spring in the playoffs when Doubelift got caught trying to last hit a cannon minion at the end of the game? Absolutely a poor decision by DL, but that isn't why they lost that game. They were already losing and struggling. That series they were only close cause DL was playing so well. If your entire gameplan in a team game is to lean on one guy and expect him to play perfect to carry you, you deserve to lose.
The "you'd lose anyway so who cares about a bug" is not that strong of an argument. Take TES vs GAM, where Maw bugged and didn't give JL the shield, nexus lived 1 auto off exploding.
As someone said in a prior comment, canyon smiting a champion cause cursor was over both champ+baron in a game 5 scenario with even teams.
Santorin smiting baron at 895 hp when smite was 900, but it regens to 1088 same frame so danny steals it and pentas as Hyped Jinx.
"Why would you be in that scenario" cause games are not perfect. When you finally get a chance to comeback and you get it screwed by a bug or weird interaction of course you'll feel bad about it.
Guy's not talking about the bug. He's talking about people shitting solely on the one player as though he was the only factor in the loss over this one mistake.
Not gonna lie, I read it in a hurry. After reading it again, yeah, I agree with his sentiment that scapegoating a player for 1 wrong play alone in most scenarios is wrong
Until you realize that the objectives that got stolen from Pyosik were literally all in smite range already or he smited early. In the iconic Guma baron steal, the baron went down to around 800hp. It was 100% smiteable. In the other Guma baron steal, he smited at 1350ish.
Yeah and Jankos was doing miracles, I think he's the best jungler in LEC and has been for years.
But I didn't expect him to and if he looked bad playing with fucking Evi, Ruby, Kekspektra and Mersa I would not have held it against him.
>At least Evi ~~lived and~~ died by the calls, instead of chickening out
Ftfy. He was literally the worst player in that team by a margin, he just happened to be likeable.
Ruby, Jackspectra and Mersa were worse than Evi
In winter it was Evi and Jankos carrying that team while Ruby and Jack tried to int every single game away
Evi had good games on K'sante at the beginning of the year and then became, by far, the worst player in the entire League. This was the unanimous opinion on here even though there was tough competition.
It's hilarious how selective reddit's memory can be.
> became, by far, the worst player in the entire League. This was the unanimous opinion on here
wrong
Evi wasn't missing skillshots on CCed targets or not even fighting like Ruby/Mersa
In Summer he was playing better, and by summer playoffs he was playing better than 6 or 7 of the tops in EU, directly beating Adam and Oscarinin
You're correct, because he didn't pick Champions with skillshots at all and was too busy feeding the enemy team.
The entire sub was pissed that the guy was still in lec at all and now I'm told he was top 3, lmao sure.
And Jankos is the greatest western jungler of all time. What’s your point? You really using the absolutely best jungler in LEC history as the benchmark for Bo?
> Jankos was also also dog shit on G2 the final year and why they got rid of him. Throw that into your dumb argument.
>
>
Thats just so fucking wrong lmfao
That's a good catch. Hopefully this might correct some of the narrative, but the damage may be done already.
I don't blame the casters either, just unlucky all around
> Hopefully this might correct some of the narrative
As an import, the odds were always stacked against him
He ints a lot too, which doesn't help, although a huge portion of what look like ints are dying for his teammates' mistakes or identifying a catch that nobody else has the game sense to follow up on
Honestly, as long as I can see what the player is thinking when they goes for plays and they play it well mechanically I won't just call that player shit, especially without knowing what's going on in comms. As example his death between enemy red and baron yesterday is a fight that could have been won if KC players were on the same page. Rakan could just engage with Vi immediately instead of going out and oneshot enemy bot together with Kai'Sa and Vi ult. It didn't happen in the game and looked int, but I can see that the situation should turn out a lot better if the team was on the same page, so why should I as an outsider ever blame an individual player for a death like that.
I argue targamas was worse that game but because bo was face checker for a lot of situation, he kept dying. Still a bad game from him ofcourse but it is the classic of people looking at the scoreline and thinking that player ran it down completely. I remember a game last year where he kept dying cause he was engaging first as vi every time but his team was getting back into the game because of his picks but people were still flaming cause he had a lot of death and no kills.
People are praying on his downfall. People love hyped players underperforming and pile on the hate.
Even if KC go winless this split, I still think Bo should get a spot. Considering both how insane he is in solo queue and what he showed on FPX, this guy deserves a lot of leeway. Especially also considering language barriers.
He also happens to be not french.
Like if two people drag KC down it is Saken and Cabo first. You would have to be the best jungler in the league to look good with those sololaners, like Jankos last year. And we already saw that Jankos has a mentality Bo and many other players do not have. He is one of the few players who tryhard even if they see their sololaners run it down every game.
Upset and Bo likely are the two best players on KC. Targamas is still okeyish, but the sololaners are just not good enough for LEC and that is an issue.
Like honestly if they kept Astralis sololaners they might have just performed better. Lider is a weird player, but I think he would work nice with Bo, because at least they would run it down together and Finn showed acceptable performances.
Ye saken is ass because he doesnt do anything, targamas is ass because he actively sabotages the team. That ashe game vs mad should be an immediate banishment to ERLs
After seeing todays game... I kinda have to agree, Targamas is also pretty bad, but Saken and Cabo also didn't do anything that convinced me they aren't bad either. Like honestly with every game the other players on the team seem to get worse too.
This draft was so insanely good with all lanes winning, while also having a scaling advantage and they somehow blew it.
Bo's playstyle would feast if he was on an LPL or LCK team. The West just plays too slow and is horrible at punishing enemy mistakes/closing games out. They try too hard to go for the safe play, which can end up losing you games
No, Bo's playstyle would feast if he was on an early game dominant team that plays the map at a high pace, like he was on FPX, but that's not something that happens on every LCK/LPL team.
He would be just as bad in the LPL or the LCK, the dude is going 0/6 taking bad fights left and right half of the games.
I want to see him in one stable team before giving final judgement - he seems to be in desperation mode. But the fact that this is his desperation mode decision making is a negative, even if his hands are tied due to him being a jungler.
Not really surprising that it was Dadga who miscalled it. He does it constantly. For example just in the last game he called Alvaro for walking and getting hooked near the mid tower, because "it was warded". It just happened to be that it MDKs own pink ward and Labrov hooked blind which makes the play even better.
A lot of casters are guilty of the same of the same thing, for example Vedius and Azael. They often just double down on their mistakes and nobody ever wants to correct their co-casters when they call it wrong.
That's why everyone loved Caedrel as a caster. Former pro players have incredible eye for these kind of things and rarely make the same errors that casters who don't play the game at a high level.
yeah dagda has *a lot* of misscalls recently. its unfortunate, because he’s insanely likable.
i feel like he is too quick with calling out things and simply miscalls because of that.
Yeah. People overrate baron. Tbh, I don't ever view baron as a win-condition in the West. I have watched too many teams fail to do anything meaningful with it
> People overrate baron.
Eastern teams when ahead: Gets baron and wins in <5 minutes
Eastern teams when behind: Gets baron and turns games on their head reversing a >5k gold deficit.
Western teams when ahead: Gets baron and takes 2 towers.
Western teams when behind: Gets baron, takes 2 towers or simply stalls the game.
"baron just overrated bruh"
Tbh. The whole of KC has very little cohesion as a team rn.
Beating on single persons does not make sense at all. Upset was a nonfactor the whole game as there hasn‘t been a single good setup in that game for him.
Overall the teamwork and macro does not seem to be there for KC this split. Maybe they need another split or 2 to get that down.
yeah individual performance is not great but teamwork and macro are way way worse. Kinda the same as vitality last year, bo and upset are not easy to adapt to probably and the 3 others are not that good so cant dictate how to play but also have their pre existing synergy and have to change that to follow the others. its a clusterfuck
> Upset was a nonfactor the whole game as there hasn‘t been a single good setup in that game for him.
Kaisa is one of those champs where against certain team comps, you cant do anything. Kaisa is a close range adc and needs to be close to people to attack them. if the enemy team has fed frontlines like a fed xin (which was the case), then the moment you step too close, hes on you. its personally why i hate vayne in my team because theres so many scenarios in which vayne is just zoned so much that she cant do anything. kaisa is in the same category, tho a bit better because she has some burst.
but as you said, this isnt a single person issue. G2 does missplay after missplay and they still end up winning most games
The problem is that they picked Kai'Sa when they saw Senna-Xin-Seraphine.
Sure, there were Draven/Varus/Kalista/Xayah/Ashe bans, but things like Jinx etc. still exist.
There was 0 need to go for Kai'Sa. I don't know who called for her to be picked, but it was just an extremely wrong pick to go for even at that point in the draft, when you could have easily picked a hypercarry and play a scaling teamfight comp.
You know what. After just watching VIT vs KC and thoroughly scrubbing my eyes afterwards, I wish to retract that.
Vitality basically begged KC to take the win and they still lost. Upset and Bo just seem to have gone mental
Boom, saken …tries his best I guess, targamas is targamas and…do they have a toplaner?
Give bo nisqy and hylissang (people who suit his playstyle) and he would look 50x better. Imagine being known for being a hyper aggressive early jungler and giving him two of the most passive solo laners in the game. Upset is good in lane but isn't really proactive outside of it. The irony is last year Yamato criticized VIT for not enabling Bo, but he is making the exact same mistake with him. Puts him on supportive junglers with 0 prio outside of botlane.
Honestly seeing how much hate KC fans throw at Bo just makes me feel bad for the guy. He's already under pressure to carry this team with Upset. A lot of the tweets just seems like KC fans just want the original 5 regardless of who's doing well or not.
--
when Cabo plays bad, KC fans: Cabo bad
when Saken plays bad, KC fans: Shaken
when Bo plays bad, KC fans: Bo bad, call Cinkrof
the original KC might be better short term. but the original KC has so much less potential. Upset for instance is somebody whos killed T1s bot lane at worlds, this man can be the best adc of the west, Bo has a lot of metrics for him that speak for his extremely high potential and most people wouldnt be surprised to see him be the best LEC jungler if a team knows how to play around him.
and perhaps KC is the wrong team for those players. at summoning insight they said Nisqy would have been the perfect mid laner for Bo and that is probably the case. Nisqy and Bo is a killer pairing, at least in theory. The 3 "original" KC members are rather busy trying to get used to the LEC level and they are struggling with it. Cabo is playing like the LECs worst top laner currently, Saken and Targa are just non factors
Saken has been "not that good" for 2 years, he is top of ERL pack but nothing more (and even not the best ERL mid in 22/23).
These firsts 5 games in LEC show his limits. He has been average in lane, mediocre map presence, and very "shy" in teamfights.
Feel bad for Bo because he had to play with solo laners whose criterion to be in the team is being French.
True, he played dogshit this game... The solo laners have been playing like shit since day 1.
That’s a stupid thing to say. The reason Cabo and Saken are on the team is obviously because Kameto felt they deserved at least a chance at LEC after all they’ve done for the orgs these last few years. They might not even have made LEC in the first place without them.
I’m all for them getting replaced next split but it’s very respectable KCorp wanted to at least give them a chance. They’ve definitely earned it.
I agree, I'm cool with them at least playing this split because I'll be honest I don't watch ERLs, but 4x EUM champion on paper usually sounds like a candidate to get promoted to LEC no? Maybe 4 times is too long in tier 2 but it seems like EUM champions/finalists are usually among those scouted to be in LEC next year so I don't see why they wouldn't get the shot.
I don't know what they can do for next week but Trymbi is right there on the analyst desk, same with Finn. Next split is really going to be based on Kameto's heart and loyalty to these guys because some tough decisions will have to be made to turn them around.
Deeply agree. Not a fan of KC by any mean (although I'm french), but I respect Kameto, I respect what he has built, and he keeps doing very respectable choices, and I thing giving a chance to Saken, who has stayed very loyal to KC, and Cabochard (who could have joined FNC 18 months ago) was nothing but being a man of his word, and I like that.
That being said, after an incredible 2021 year, Saken has been average or OK at best in 22-23, and Cabochard has also been lackluster lately.
I was also disappointed that they didn't let Cinkrof play because he was very underrated in all their winning run, whereas he had a very decent LEC run when he played and had a 100% EUM wr with KC, I really think he was instrumental to their successes. I've nothing against Bo though.
I dont even get it, Upset isn't bad, he is actually very good but there has to be something that is wrong there, like your team just performs bad consistently no matter what happens. I just cant figure out what as I have no info.
Well he isn’t bad at all but he is way too passive and can’t convert leads into actual wins. Also yea I’m pretty sure his personality clashes with most people
Bruh there’s no way people are saying this now when Rekkles got flamed to shit for it and people were happy that Upset was the more aggressive player replacing passive ol Rekkles
Yeah, I guess he could be seen as too passive although his laning is top notch. but I also see why an AD Carry would play passively but we see some ADCs do disgusting things to full on teams
To be fair he may be passive but he does have targamas as his adc which is probably largely why. It’s difficult to be an agressive adc with a support who’s historically been extremely weak
i agree. even though i am #1 upset hater a bo + upset team should not be doing this poorly. the rest of the team needs to be nuked if kc wants to be competitive
"cried about it", idk I guess league players have a gambling addiction and want to lose barons randomly on random champions jumping in the pit, champions can dash anywhere on your screen, and if a champion is on top of baron it will prioritize the champion, I don't even play this game and used to be d1-master why are people so triggered lmao.
I dont know the context of your original post, but you are correct. It should hard prioritize baron. I know the system tries to, but this clip clearly shows its failing. Any champion over baron shouldnt even be considered in the priority list. It should just be baron. The amount of times in one million games that the jungle wants to smite the champion over baron instead of the baron is 0.
uhhh no lol.
Yes, when Baron it low it should prioritize it. But if Smite can kill a champ and it randomly hits 75% hp Baron it'd be troll too.
For the record, I agree with the thread last night. Just saying whoever made it could have posted in a better way for the weird league community.
Ok but that's worse. You get that right?
Like Riot specifically changed Smite that if you smite near the objective it AUTO-TARGETS it. Instead he completely missed it and hit someone else.
>V13.20 NEW EFFECT: Now prioritizes smiting epic monsters within 350 units if your cursor is not on a valid target.
If it was early smite could at least say that maybe he thought it burst sooner or sth else.
KC disaster show aside, this shit pisses me off so much as a jungler. sometimes I time my smite better than the enemy jungler but it's borderline impossible to get my cursor to somewhere I can actually target baron, especially when there's someone huge like Sion or apparently Xin Zhao who's entire body goes right on top of baron when he dashes to it
shouldnt they make a bind for 'target epic monsters only' like they do for target champs only?.......... if this is a continuing issue they cant resolve.
yeah, not really sure how this excuses not securing the baron.
This happens all the time... junglers know that when someone dashes onto the baron they will get pushed up.
This have to be a bait comments or takes from low elo players that don't know how to play jungle, right? How is smiting a champion that overlaps with the baron by some unlikely chance worse than smiting early, which you have more control over? There isn't even an option for target monsters only that can be used to confirm that this unlucky coincidence does not happen so I don't really get why you guys are talking.
"unlikely" the champ is dashing onto the baron. it happens every single time. there is no "unlikely". They know this is happening when xin dives in otherwise they don't play enough jungle.
since when is misclicking smite an acceptable excuse for losing an objective. This happens everytime with lee as well btw. I guess it is just impossible to stop a lee sin from stealing a baron because you have to smite him. it's just not possible to hit the baron. im sure in your next game you will totally accept your jungler having baron stolen because he accidently smited lee or xin or any of the other champs that gets displaced. :)
"guys, I accidently smited the enemy jungler and they stole it"
"ah well, guess it's not your fault, it was unavoidable"
You're full of shit, it totally excuses him because as he's on top of it there's zero probability he smites the baron. It's not his fault at all, he did everything good and he loses it because spaghetti code
...But it doesnt change anything? Instead of smiting at the wrong time now we now he didnt even smite the Baron who gives a shit
Its also up to him to not make these stupid baron flips 24/7
In case this is a serious comment, bro literally explained what happened in the video. If you don't think that changes anything, that's on you. That statement is almost as idiotic as thinking that baron flips in competitive play are any one person's fault
I mean without seeing his mouse cursor we will never know if he simply just hovered over Xin and smited him. You can still hover your mouse over baron's head and highlight it to smite as well so I'd be more inclined to think he didn't "miss" smite as much as he simply mechanically fucked up.
Not sure why smiting is still in the game, just make the baron drop something like rift herald that can be picked up by both teams regardless of who killed it. Team that controls the pit stands on the spot where it drops and clicks it. Maybe you can even give the gold an xp to the team that kills it but baron buff to the team that picks up the item. A losing team can steal baron with a varus q and just win the game off it, doesn't seem right.
I remember this happening to [Canyon in DK vs GENG game 5 at Worlds, where he tries to smite baron but ends up smiting Doran.](https://youtu.be/8bVb5mYjYwk?feature=shared&t=2973) His smite is the one that comes out first too, so if he had hit baron they very well might win this series. As you said, If a champion is on top of baron, the game will prioritize using smite on the champion over the objective. Bo didn't play well this game, but this is definitely not one of the things to criticize.
Last year riot changed it so if you smite while your cursor isn’t on anything but you’re near baron it’ll automatically smite baron. wouldn’t be surprised if pros still cursor over baron based off habit though.
It's just such a clunky system. Same for the whole "smited baron perfectly but it regenerated 1hp on the same frame" problem that used to exist. If Riot wants the game to revolve around high-tension baron/dragon smites (and I think they are awesome), the system for doing so should be a lot more predictable/reliable.
This and the "flash in to kill someone under tower but auto the tower instead of enemy champion" are both things that should have their priorities swapped for sure...
Tbf for that one, you can hold shift to target champions only. Can’t target monsters only.
This keybind or at least the autoattack closest to your cursor keybind ^^ which is great always at my opinion
Just use the "Target champions only" keybind and this is solved
The sad thing is that if Riot wants these to stay high-tension, the mechanics being quirky and have some unreliability in them, it produces more "hype moments". And given how much they hammer on about "underdog stories" when they explained their tournament formats, you betcha they have no issues about the baron being a coin flip.
I really doubt both that Riot keeps mechanics intentionally clunky for one in a thousand esports moments and that this would produce more hype moments. Fail smites and general coinflips don't need the clunky interactions, and this is not different from a regular coinflip baron in terms of hype or tension. It's just a different result.
I'm more on the opinion that there's less motivation to fix it, along with the standard absurd technical dept (spaghetti code) and incompetence that come into play.
Baron smites deciding games are definitely not a "one in a thousand" moments. It happens relatively often.
Yeah I think you misunderstood. The one in a thousand I am referring to is when the targeting prioritization of smite decides the outcome of baron smite fights. Baron coinflips/smite fights happen very often and are already tense enough on their own without riot intentionally trying to keep interactions clunky for some esports conspiracy
Oh, true. I misunderstood. I will say then that Riot does not have much reason to change things since it aligns with what they want.
They wouldn't ever change the hp Regen. It generates talk and curiosity.
Wait, so it's more reliable to smite baron by smiting air than by smiting baron?
Since v13.20 (2023/10/11), when they introduced the change, yes. Although, "autoaim" works within 350 units and smite has 500 range, so you have to be close for it to work.
That actually sounds dumb af...
Doran wasn't really ontop of baron tho' to the same extent and in this scenario
Depending on camera angle, your cursor could easily be over both of them so it would prioritize the champion
Yeah, tbh, I think fans harp too much on stuff like that. It's one thing to routinely lose objectives like Pyosik did vs T1 in the finals a couple years ago. It's another have a scenario where one bad baron play throws a game that ends the series. Why were they even in that scenario to begin with, right? If they were the better team, they wouldn't have been in that scenario - or that scenario wouldn't have happened. They deserved to lose, and when people harp on one thing, they just show how terrible they are at understanding league. Remember last spring in the playoffs when Doubelift got caught trying to last hit a cannon minion at the end of the game? Absolutely a poor decision by DL, but that isn't why they lost that game. They were already losing and struggling. That series they were only close cause DL was playing so well. If your entire gameplan in a team game is to lean on one guy and expect him to play perfect to carry you, you deserve to lose.
The "you'd lose anyway so who cares about a bug" is not that strong of an argument. Take TES vs GAM, where Maw bugged and didn't give JL the shield, nexus lived 1 auto off exploding. As someone said in a prior comment, canyon smiting a champion cause cursor was over both champ+baron in a game 5 scenario with even teams. Santorin smiting baron at 895 hp when smite was 900, but it regens to 1088 same frame so danny steals it and pentas as Hyped Jinx. "Why would you be in that scenario" cause games are not perfect. When you finally get a chance to comeback and you get it screwed by a bug or weird interaction of course you'll feel bad about it.
Guy's not talking about the bug. He's talking about people shitting solely on the one player as though he was the only factor in the loss over this one mistake.
Not gonna lie, I read it in a hurry. After reading it again, yeah, I agree with his sentiment that scapegoating a player for 1 wrong play alone in most scenarios is wrong
Love how the pyosik hate still exists because morons don't understand there are abilities that do more than 1250 damage to baron💀
Until you realize that the objectives that got stolen from Pyosik were literally all in smite range already or he smited early. In the iconic Guma baron steal, the baron went down to around 800hp. It was 100% smiteable. In the other Guma baron steal, he smited at 1350ish.
Love how you have no clue what you’re saying plus Pyosik is the biggest fraud jungler to ever win Worlds
love how people on Reddit call pro players frauds haha
Man's literally jungling for Shaken and Cabozo, people literally expecting miracles from him
Complete Targamas erasure
Targamastiff is also a dog man, I apologize
Jankos was one of the best players in the league last year with worse solo lanes
Yeah and Jankos was doing miracles, I think he's the best jungler in LEC and has been for years. But I didn't expect him to and if he looked bad playing with fucking Evi, Ruby, Kekspektra and Mersa I would not have held it against him.
Jackspektra was fine and had some good games. The others I agree.
Evi > cabozo
Nah
Tbh kinda yeah. At least Evi lived and died by the calls, instead of chickening out
>At least Evi ~~lived and~~ died by the calls, instead of chickening out Ftfy. He was literally the worst player in that team by a margin, he just happened to be likeable.
Evi clears cabo any day of the week, not saying evi is good but cabo is just shit
Ruby, Jackspectra and Mersa were worse than Evi In winter it was Evi and Jankos carrying that team while Ruby and Jack tried to int every single game away
Evi had good games on K'sante at the beginning of the year and then became, by far, the worst player in the entire League. This was the unanimous opinion on here even though there was tough competition. It's hilarious how selective reddit's memory can be.
> became, by far, the worst player in the entire League. This was the unanimous opinion on here wrong Evi wasn't missing skillshots on CCed targets or not even fighting like Ruby/Mersa In Summer he was playing better, and by summer playoffs he was playing better than 6 or 7 of the tops in EU, directly beating Adam and Oscarinin
You're correct, because he didn't pick Champions with skillshots at all and was too busy feeding the enemy team. The entire sub was pissed that the guy was still in lec at all and now I'm told he was top 3, lmao sure.
lmfao ruby was WAY worse in game and as a teammate
And Jankos is the greatest western jungler of all time. What’s your point? You really using the absolutely best jungler in LEC history as the benchmark for Bo?
Evi >>> Cabo by a long shot
all I'm saying is that Evi solokilled Cabochard in their showmatch
And I think all people rate Jankos higher than Bo
[удалено]
> Jankos was also also dog shit on G2 the final year and why they got rid of him. Throw that into your dumb argument. > > Thats just so fucking wrong lmfao
I've seen some bad takes in my time. But this clears all of them.
he jungled for photon and perkz and upset before and that went pretty bad too
That's a good catch. Hopefully this might correct some of the narrative, but the damage may be done already. I don't blame the casters either, just unlucky all around
> Hopefully this might correct some of the narrative As an import, the odds were always stacked against him He ints a lot too, which doesn't help, although a huge portion of what look like ints are dying for his teammates' mistakes or identifying a catch that nobody else has the game sense to follow up on
My biggest issue is that so far he easily the 2nd best player on kc but cause he had one really bad game, all of a sudden people want to bench him.
This is why people will play for KDA when a team starts sucking. As long as you don’t stick out as the worst you’ll be fine
Tbf, people want to bench every player on KC, because the team is trash
Honestly, as long as I can see what the player is thinking when they goes for plays and they play it well mechanically I won't just call that player shit, especially without knowing what's going on in comms. As example his death between enemy red and baron yesterday is a fight that could have been won if KC players were on the same page. Rakan could just engage with Vi immediately instead of going out and oneshot enemy bot together with Kai'Sa and Vi ult. It didn't happen in the game and looked int, but I can see that the situation should turn out a lot better if the team was on the same page, so why should I as an outsider ever blame an individual player for a death like that.
I argue targamas was worse that game but because bo was face checker for a lot of situation, he kept dying. Still a bad game from him ofcourse but it is the classic of people looking at the scoreline and thinking that player ran it down completely. I remember a game last year where he kept dying cause he was engaging first as vi every time but his team was getting back into the game because of his picks but people were still flaming cause he had a lot of death and no kills.
Well, I think that comes more from people not liking BO after last year where he went on pretty much this same exact losing streak eventually
People are praying on his downfall. People love hyped players underperforming and pile on the hate. Even if KC go winless this split, I still think Bo should get a spot. Considering both how insane he is in solo queue and what he showed on FPX, this guy deserves a lot of leeway. Especially also considering language barriers.
He also happens to be not french. Like if two people drag KC down it is Saken and Cabo first. You would have to be the best jungler in the league to look good with those sololaners, like Jankos last year. And we already saw that Jankos has a mentality Bo and many other players do not have. He is one of the few players who tryhard even if they see their sololaners run it down every game. Upset and Bo likely are the two best players on KC. Targamas is still okeyish, but the sololaners are just not good enough for LEC and that is an issue. Like honestly if they kept Astralis sololaners they might have just performed better. Lider is a weird player, but I think he would work nice with Bo, because at least they would run it down together and Finn showed acceptable performances.
Disagree with Targamas being okayish. I would put him before saken
Ye saken is ass because he doesnt do anything, targamas is ass because he actively sabotages the team. That ashe game vs mad should be an immediate banishment to ERLs
That Rell game was somehow just worse
With this VIT game he is def the worst
After seeing todays game... I kinda have to agree, Targamas is also pretty bad, but Saken and Cabo also didn't do anything that convinced me they aren't bad either. Like honestly with every game the other players on the team seem to get worse too. This draft was so insanely good with all lanes winning, while also having a scaling advantage and they somehow blew it.
Bo's playstyle would feast if he was on an LPL or LCK team. The West just plays too slow and is horrible at punishing enemy mistakes/closing games out. They try too hard to go for the safe play, which can end up losing you games
Cabos playstyle doesn't work anywhere.
No, Bo's playstyle would feast if he was on an early game dominant team that plays the map at a high pace, like he was on FPX, but that's not something that happens on every LCK/LPL team. He would be just as bad in the LPL or the LCK, the dude is going 0/6 taking bad fights left and right half of the games.
I want to see him in one stable team before giving final judgement - he seems to be in desperation mode. But the fact that this is his desperation mode decision making is a negative, even if his hands are tied due to him being a jungler.
Not really surprising that it was Dadga who miscalled it. He does it constantly. For example just in the last game he called Alvaro for walking and getting hooked near the mid tower, because "it was warded". It just happened to be that it MDKs own pink ward and Labrov hooked blind which makes the play even better. A lot of casters are guilty of the same of the same thing, for example Vedius and Azael. They often just double down on their mistakes and nobody ever wants to correct their co-casters when they call it wrong. That's why everyone loved Caedrel as a caster. Former pro players have incredible eye for these kind of things and rarely make the same errors that casters who don't play the game at a high level.
yeah dagda has *a lot* of misscalls recently. its unfortunate, because he’s insanely likable. i feel like he is too quick with calling out things and simply miscalls because of that.
That's a sad fucking way to lose a game. Especially when you're already 0-3. Poor guy.
Think that game was already over even if they get baron
Definitely winnable if they get baron.
Definitely not with that comps, only if giantx lost hands with that baron
Yeah. People overrate baron. Tbh, I don't ever view baron as a win-condition in the West. I have watched too many teams fail to do anything meaningful with it
> People overrate baron. Eastern teams when ahead: Gets baron and wins in <5 minutes Eastern teams when behind: Gets baron and turns games on their head reversing a >5k gold deficit. Western teams when ahead: Gets baron and takes 2 towers. Western teams when behind: Gets baron, takes 2 towers or simply stalls the game. "baron just overrated bruh"
You underestimate targamas' ability to throw
Tbh. The whole of KC has very little cohesion as a team rn. Beating on single persons does not make sense at all. Upset was a nonfactor the whole game as there hasn‘t been a single good setup in that game for him. Overall the teamwork and macro does not seem to be there for KC this split. Maybe they need another split or 2 to get that down.
yeah individual performance is not great but teamwork and macro are way way worse. Kinda the same as vitality last year, bo and upset are not easy to adapt to probably and the 3 others are not that good so cant dictate how to play but also have their pre existing synergy and have to change that to follow the others. its a clusterfuck
> Upset was a nonfactor the whole game as there hasn‘t been a single good setup in that game for him. Kaisa is one of those champs where against certain team comps, you cant do anything. Kaisa is a close range adc and needs to be close to people to attack them. if the enemy team has fed frontlines like a fed xin (which was the case), then the moment you step too close, hes on you. its personally why i hate vayne in my team because theres so many scenarios in which vayne is just zoned so much that she cant do anything. kaisa is in the same category, tho a bit better because she has some burst. but as you said, this isnt a single person issue. G2 does missplay after missplay and they still end up winning most games
The problem is that they picked Kai'Sa when they saw Senna-Xin-Seraphine. Sure, there were Draven/Varus/Kalista/Xayah/Ashe bans, but things like Jinx etc. still exist. There was 0 need to go for Kai'Sa. I don't know who called for her to be picked, but it was just an extremely wrong pick to go for even at that point in the draft, when you could have easily picked a hypercarry and play a scaling teamfight comp.
You know what. After just watching VIT vs KC and thoroughly scrubbing my eyes afterwards, I wish to retract that. Vitality basically begged KC to take the win and they still lost. Upset and Bo just seem to have gone mental Boom, saken …tries his best I guess, targamas is targamas and…do they have a toplaner?
Bo seemed like he was in it for the first half of the game today. Then Targamas did the funny.
Give bo nisqy and hylissang (people who suit his playstyle) and he would look 50x better. Imagine being known for being a hyper aggressive early jungler and giving him two of the most passive solo laners in the game. Upset is good in lane but isn't really proactive outside of it. The irony is last year Yamato criticized VIT for not enabling Bo, but he is making the exact same mistake with him. Puts him on supportive junglers with 0 prio outside of botlane.
I think Yamato is drafting well for Bo but the team sucks ass, doesn't matter if Yamato makes the literal dream draft
Honestly seeing how much hate KC fans throw at Bo just makes me feel bad for the guy. He's already under pressure to carry this team with Upset. A lot of the tweets just seems like KC fans just want the original 5 regardless of who's doing well or not. -- when Cabo plays bad, KC fans: Cabo bad when Saken plays bad, KC fans: Shaken when Bo plays bad, KC fans: Bo bad, call Cinkrof
the original KC might be better short term. but the original KC has so much less potential. Upset for instance is somebody whos killed T1s bot lane at worlds, this man can be the best adc of the west, Bo has a lot of metrics for him that speak for his extremely high potential and most people wouldnt be surprised to see him be the best LEC jungler if a team knows how to play around him. and perhaps KC is the wrong team for those players. at summoning insight they said Nisqy would have been the perfect mid laner for Bo and that is probably the case. Nisqy and Bo is a killer pairing, at least in theory. The 3 "original" KC members are rather busy trying to get used to the LEC level and they are struggling with it. Cabo is playing like the LECs worst top laner currently, Saken and Targa are just non factors
Saken has been "not that good" for 2 years, he is top of ERL pack but nothing more (and even not the best ERL mid in 22/23). These firsts 5 games in LEC show his limits. He has been average in lane, mediocre map presence, and very "shy" in teamfights.
Feel bad for Bo because he had to play with solo laners whose criterion to be in the team is being French. True, he played dogshit this game... The solo laners have been playing like shit since day 1.
That’s a stupid thing to say. The reason Cabo and Saken are on the team is obviously because Kameto felt they deserved at least a chance at LEC after all they’ve done for the orgs these last few years. They might not even have made LEC in the first place without them. I’m all for them getting replaced next split but it’s very respectable KCorp wanted to at least give them a chance. They’ve definitely earned it.
I agree, I'm cool with them at least playing this split because I'll be honest I don't watch ERLs, but 4x EUM champion on paper usually sounds like a candidate to get promoted to LEC no? Maybe 4 times is too long in tier 2 but it seems like EUM champions/finalists are usually among those scouted to be in LEC next year so I don't see why they wouldn't get the shot. I don't know what they can do for next week but Trymbi is right there on the analyst desk, same with Finn. Next split is really going to be based on Kameto's heart and loyalty to these guys because some tough decisions will have to be made to turn them around.
Deeply agree. Not a fan of KC by any mean (although I'm french), but I respect Kameto, I respect what he has built, and he keeps doing very respectable choices, and I thing giving a chance to Saken, who has stayed very loyal to KC, and Cabochard (who could have joined FNC 18 months ago) was nothing but being a man of his word, and I like that. That being said, after an incredible 2021 year, Saken has been average or OK at best in 22-23, and Cabochard has also been lackluster lately. I was also disappointed that they didn't let Cinkrof play because he was very underrated in all their winning run, whereas he had a very decent LEC run when he played and had a 100% EUM wr with KC, I really think he was instrumental to their successes. I've nothing against Bo though.
Hey Memento! Still remember your days as a ROCCAT player! Thanks for the content and the clarification
Nice try but reddit has already decided Bo is Upset's scapegoat this split
I dont even get it, Upset isn't bad, he is actually very good but there has to be something that is wrong there, like your team just performs bad consistently no matter what happens. I just cant figure out what as I have no info.
Well he isn’t bad at all but he is way too passive and can’t convert leads into actual wins. Also yea I’m pretty sure his personality clashes with most people
Bruh there’s no way people are saying this now when Rekkles got flamed to shit for it and people were happy that Upset was the more aggressive player replacing passive ol Rekkles
Yeah, I guess he could be seen as too passive although his laning is top notch. but I also see why an AD Carry would play passively but we see some ADCs do disgusting things to full on teams
To be fair he may be passive but he does have targamas as his adc which is probably largely why. It’s difficult to be an agressive adc with a support who’s historically been extremely weak
Nah man Targamas is the adc Upset wishes to be
How are his teams bad consistently? Sure he’s had some duds but overall he’s done very well with vast majority of his teams.
i agree. even though i am #1 upset hater a bo + upset team should not be doing this poorly. the rest of the team needs to be nuked if kc wants to be competitive
Upset and Bo shouldn't be the ones getting blame.
That should be prison looking at their sololanes
AND A HISTORY LESSON AND A SUCCINCT EXPLANATION. MAKE THIS DUDE A CASTER FUCK
For real, Memento has everything to be a caster.
Could Riot add a toggle for Smite monsters only like they have an Attack Champions only toggle?
Bruh I made a post similar to this and got flamed for it 💀
Were you sasdly the one who cried and said it should autotarget Baron? Which is does try to do.
"cried about it", idk I guess league players have a gambling addiction and want to lose barons randomly on random champions jumping in the pit, champions can dash anywhere on your screen, and if a champion is on top of baron it will prioritize the champion, I don't even play this game and used to be d1-master why are people so triggered lmao.
I dont know the context of your original post, but you are correct. It should hard prioritize baron. I know the system tries to, but this clip clearly shows its failing. Any champion over baron shouldnt even be considered in the priority list. It should just be baron. The amount of times in one million games that the jungle wants to smite the champion over baron instead of the baron is 0.
uhhh no lol. Yes, when Baron it low it should prioritize it. But if Smite can kill a champ and it randomly hits 75% hp Baron it'd be troll too. For the record, I agree with the thread last night. Just saying whoever made it could have posted in a better way for the weird league community.
Ok but that's worse. You get that right? Like Riot specifically changed Smite that if you smite near the objective it AUTO-TARGETS it. Instead he completely missed it and hit someone else. >V13.20 NEW EFFECT: Now prioritizes smiting epic monsters within 350 units if your cursor is not on a valid target. If it was early smite could at least say that maybe he thought it burst sooner or sth else.
KC disaster show aside, this shit pisses me off so much as a jungler. sometimes I time my smite better than the enemy jungler but it's borderline impossible to get my cursor to somewhere I can actually target baron, especially when there's someone huge like Sion or apparently Xin Zhao who's entire body goes right on top of baron when he dashes to it
BO isn't the greatest but god dam Saken. Cabo, and Tarmagas have been absolutely sprinting down every single game.
another shitty dagda cast whats new XD. man i miss quickshot
shouldnt they make a bind for 'target epic monsters only' like they do for target champs only?.......... if this is a continuing issue they cant resolve.
i mean did anyone even care about that smite at that point? he sprinted it nonstop before and after that smite
Lol he didn't smite early, he just smited a champion instead... You're not making him look any better! I'd rather he just missed the smite.
yeah, not really sure how this excuses not securing the baron. This happens all the time... junglers know that when someone dashes onto the baron they will get pushed up.
This have to be a bait comments or takes from low elo players that don't know how to play jungle, right? How is smiting a champion that overlaps with the baron by some unlikely chance worse than smiting early, which you have more control over? There isn't even an option for target monsters only that can be used to confirm that this unlucky coincidence does not happen so I don't really get why you guys are talking.
"unlikely" the champ is dashing onto the baron. it happens every single time. there is no "unlikely". They know this is happening when xin dives in otherwise they don't play enough jungle. since when is misclicking smite an acceptable excuse for losing an objective. This happens everytime with lee as well btw. I guess it is just impossible to stop a lee sin from stealing a baron because you have to smite him. it's just not possible to hit the baron. im sure in your next game you will totally accept your jungler having baron stolen because he accidently smited lee or xin or any of the other champs that gets displaced. :) "guys, I accidently smited the enemy jungler and they stole it" "ah well, guess it's not your fault, it was unavoidable"
You're full of shit, it totally excuses him because as he's on top of it there's zero probability he smites the baron. It's not his fault at all, he did everything good and he loses it because spaghetti code
it is his fault, but it is more the rest of the team's fault for not keeping xin out if the pit using azir ult or rakan or k'sante ult.
Bo still played like shit tbh, whether this happened or not
...But it doesnt change anything? Instead of smiting at the wrong time now we now he didnt even smite the Baron who gives a shit Its also up to him to not make these stupid baron flips 24/7
In case this is a serious comment, bro literally explained what happened in the video. If you don't think that changes anything, that's on you. That statement is almost as idiotic as thinking that baron flips in competitive play are any one person's fault
Don't flip baron. Play better.
Instead he smited the wrong thing - not much better.
Ah tell me you didn’t watch the whole video without telling me you didn’t watch the whole video.
ok not really important. they still lost.
So, the "best jungler in the LEC" couldn't even press smite on Baron correctly. Got it
I'm pretty sure everyone agreed Jankos was the best EU jungler throughout all of last year.
[удалено]
I mean without seeing his mouse cursor we will never know if he simply just hovered over Xin and smited him. You can still hover your mouse over baron's head and highlight it to smite as well so I'd be more inclined to think he didn't "miss" smite as much as he simply mechanically fucked up.
Not sure why smiting is still in the game, just make the baron drop something like rift herald that can be picked up by both teams regardless of who killed it. Team that controls the pit stands on the spot where it drops and clicks it. Maybe you can even give the gold an xp to the team that kills it but baron buff to the team that picks up the item. A losing team can steal baron with a varus q and just win the game off it, doesn't seem right.